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Assholes and Gasholes
December 31, 2009
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Joe Newton
Set me straight. I married my wife several months ago after dating three years. Things are generally excellent, except for one problem: When my wife gets drunk, she gets crazy flirtatious. She'll dance close to people, touch them, hold hands. A couple of times, I thought it went too far and I told her so. She claims it is just harmless and she would never let anything happen.
Well, as it turns out, something did happen. After getting kissed on the cheek by a woman I think was a lesbian at a recent party, it came out during the subsequent argument that in year two of our relationship, she was high and dancing at a club with several gay men and she French-kissed one of the friends. While she acknowledges that a line was crossed (which is why she didn't tell me when it happened), she says it was just a very intense but regrettable "friendship moment" and nothing more. She says this gay man is not bi.
I'm grappling with three issues: (1) Did she cheat? Although we've never talked about the rules concerning kissing gay friends, we both know she crossed a line (there was tongue). (2) How much did she betray me by not telling me until after we were married? (3) Am I being a selfish prude by caring about either her aggressive flirting or this kiss? She is very contrite and swears she will calm down the flirtation. Should I forgive her and move on? Or should I run the hell away before it's too late?
Seriously Troubled Here
1. No.
2. Your wife's failure to disclose a single drugged-up, blissed-out, pre-exchange-of-vows kiss shared with a gay dude on a dance floor—even with tongue—does not constitute a "betrayal." It constitutes an omission.
3. Yes, STH, you are being a selfish prude, and yes, you should forgive her.
The aggressive flirting could be a problem—if your wife is flirting at all aggressively. I'm wary of accepting your characterization of her behavior at face value, STH, as your overreaction to the kiss leads me to believe that you might not be rational about your wife's behavior generally. Where you see getting too near, dancing too close, and being too friendly, a slightly less paranoid/controlling spouse might see innocent flirtatiousness. But if she agrees that her flirting is indeed a problem—if for no other reason than it bothers her husband—and she's willing to tamp it down for your sake, you should "forgive her and move on," by which I mean "YOU SHOULD CEASE BEING SUCH A FUCKING ASSHOLE about (1) the kiss and (2) the flirting and (3) the fucking kiss already."
That said, STH, I wouldn't want to be married to a man who claimed to love me but couldn't forgive me for something so trifling as a meaningless kiss. So I'm not sure I'm doing your wife any favors by talking you off the ledge. Honestly, STH, someone who is hesitant to forgive is hardly husband material. A successful marriage is basically an endless cycle of wrongs committed, apologies offered, and forgiveness granted, STH, all leavened by the occasional orgasm. If you're having such a hard time forgiving her for this piddling "betrayal," STH, you're not cut out for marriage and your wife may want to run away before it's too late.
My husband and I have a "don't ask, don't tell" policy when we're apart. A few months ago, I hooked up with a guy on a business trip who said he and his wife have the same arrangement. He was lying. His wife found out and started harassing me on Facebook. I truly feel horrible. How can I know if someone is really in an open relationship when they say they are? I am so done.
Fucking Asshole Idiot Losers
The only way to verify that someone is in an open relationship is to speak to that person's partner—and as that would constitute "telling," FAIL, it would be a violation of a "don't ask, don't tell" policy. But even a couple with a "please ask, do tell" policy probably has a rule against 2:00 a.m. calls from drunken hotel-bar pickups. So you'll have to trust your gut, FAIL, which failed you here. Just remember this on your next business trip: The further a married person is from home and the drunker that married person is, the likelier it is that that married person is lying to you.
I'm a 17-year-old gay male. I'm into farts. I attend a high school where there are very few out gay guys, so I'm looking forward to meeting new people in college. The thing is, it was hard enough accepting that I'm gay and harder still to accept that I have a fart fetish. Do I now have to accept that I will never be able to go through the cycle of human sexual bonding in a normal way, since you suggest that fetishists like me should stick to sex workers and online hookups with fellow fetishists?
I don't mean to be combative. I'm just wondering what lies in store for me and whether there's any hope. I'm not a sick bastard in any way but this, and it would be devastating for me to hear that I should skip dating altogether and head to the chat rooms. I would be really grateful if you could offer me some candid—but sensitive—insight on this.
Help Out Pubescent Eproctophiliac
Here's what lies in store for you, HOPE: You're going to meet guys online who share your fetish. There aren't tons of you out there, I'm sorry-ish to say, so that means the odds are slim that you'll meet a fellow eproctophiliac living on your campus. And if you do find someone online who lives on campus who shares your kink, the odds that you'll be both physically and romantically attracted to him—the odds that he'll be boyfriend material—are slimmer still.
But rest assured: People meet online every day—straight people, queer people, vanillas, kinksters—and fall in love. So if you do find someone online who shares your kink and whom you click with, HOPE, don't make the mistake of ruling him out as a boyfriend just because you met him in a kinky chat room. You were in that chat room and you're boyfriend material, right? And if you meet a fellow fetishist whom you're really into who lives on the other side of the country, well, that totally blows. But the rarer a fetish, the greater the lengths a fetishist sometimes has to go to find a partner. If you're into him and he's into you and he's boyfriend material, get your ass on an airplane and go see the boy. (Take all the usual precautions—get his real name and real phone number, have your first meeting in a public place, make sure someone knows where you're going, have someplace to stay, etc.)
You'll also be able to meet guys the normal way, HOPE—in your classes, in bars, at parties, and via non-kink hookup websites popular with gay college boys. You may wind up partnered with a guy who finds you so attractive that he's willing to indulge you. Or, like a lot of people with unique and/or challenging fetishes, you may wind up in a long-term relationship with a loving partner with whom you enjoy vanilla sex while indulging your fetish via online porn, chats, webcam sessions, and, yes, the odd session with an understanding sex worker whom you treat with respect and overtip. 
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4
Dan, why do you insist on recycling SL Letters of the Day in your weekly column? They're supposed to be "letters of the DAY", not "letters you'll have to relive because Dan is too lazy to find something original to print". I find it hard to believe that you don't have a wide enough selection of sick questions in your inbox when you sit down to write your column and therefore have to resort to reprinting the prior week's letters of the day. Did you think no one would notice that you already printed that first letter? It's such a disappointment, particularly to those of us who have actually written letters and haven't gotten a response.
6
Or even a less challenging fetish can be handled via vanilla sex with a committed partner. As a matter of fact, I think that probably describes the majority of relationships out there.
7
If she broke their rules for dating, if he was led to expect that he was the ONLY guy she was going to be in any way physically intimate with, then she did betray him. Just like if he'd gone off and had tons of cyber sex with an ex girlfriend but never touched her. If you break your relationship's rules, and if you know it well enough to try to hide the fact, that is cheating. Just like in cards, breaking the rules equals cheating. She needs to quit doing things she knows will bother him, unless being allowed to get bombed and flirt is her deal breaker. And he needs to learn not to marry people who deliberately and repeatedly do things that bother him that much.
8
Yeah dan... How dare you post recycled stuff that not everyone reads from your blog on holidays, its like you WANT to spend time with your family or something, sheesh SO LAZY
9
The dude from the first letter just needs to A) Get over it already, or B) Break up. She clearly gets something from flirting and should find someone who is OK with (or even gets off on watching) it.
To the dude with the farting fetish: seriously? Dude, sometimes you have to go without to find someone and settle for not having this "fetish" (if it's really a fetish, not enough detail to really know for sure - does he need to smell it to get off?) fulfilled.
I've personally never heard of it before, and you may just be one of very, very few dudes who digs it. Might just be time to chalk it up to masturbatory material if you can't find someone you dig who will indulge you.
To the dude with the farting fetish: seriously? Dude, sometimes you have to go without to find someone and settle for not having this "fetish" (if it's really a fetish, not enough detail to really know for sure - does he need to smell it to get off?) fulfilled.
I've personally never heard of it before, and you may just be one of very, very few dudes who digs it. Might just be time to chalk it up to masturbatory material if you can't find someone you dig who will indulge you.
10
How have you not heard of this fetish? Craigslist is full of people looking for other people to fulfill their fart fetish. It's obviously a pretty hard one to get your partner to help you out with, so everyone turn to CL, but still...
11
Dan's profundity of the week:
A successful marriage is basically an endless
cycle of wrongs committed, apologies offered,
and forgiveness granted, all leavened by the occasional orgasm.
Genius!
Happy New Year, ya lazy bastard!
A successful marriage is basically an endless
cycle of wrongs committed, apologies offered,
and forgiveness granted, all leavened by the occasional orgasm.
Genius!
Happy New Year, ya lazy bastard!
12
However, that being said (concerning my comment about the first letter), I would not be OK with my own husband getting drunk (with or without me) and flirting with other ladies. That would drive me nuts and make me mad. This may be a simple case of "give up the alcohol or give me up".
13
Dan,
Advice for the guy worried about his wife - don't be so dang harsh! Some people are really into monogamy. This dude is.
Respect~
Advice for the guy worried about his wife - don't be so dang harsh! Some people are really into monogamy. This dude is.
Respect~
14
I think Dan's advice to STH is right-on. He's also correct/astute to question the author's version of events. That all being said, _if_ STH is accurate in his description, then he should worry about his new wife's behavior.
Someone who radically changes their behavior when drunk is a BIG red flag. I guarantee you she's going to cheat eventually. Alcoholism isn't pretty. He doesn't sound like a real prize, either, and maybe that's what's going on here: some sort of co-dependency. A jealous control freak & an alcoholic. The big plus here is that at least one of them is reaching out for help. SL is a start, but it shouldn't be the end for these two.
Someone who radically changes their behavior when drunk is a BIG red flag. I guarantee you she's going to cheat eventually. Alcoholism isn't pretty. He doesn't sound like a real prize, either, and maybe that's what's going on here: some sort of co-dependency. A jealous control freak & an alcoholic. The big plus here is that at least one of them is reaching out for help. SL is a start, but it shouldn't be the end for these two.
16
Is it just me, or does a fart fetish seem not all that hard to indulge (assuming it's just a supplemental turn-on and not the only way you can get off/the only sex act you're interested in)? If I was into someone, and we could get each other off in a variety of more standard ways, and then after a little while he disclosed that he'd be really excited by watching/smelling me fart... I don't know. I'd be kind of weirded out, but I'd certainly try it.
HOPE, you're only 17 -- I'd give the regular old "date & hook up with people you meet any old way" thing a shot before you go limiting yourself just to the world of other fart fetishists. Who knows... you might meet someone who'll indulge your kinks with a fetish of their own that you hadn't even realized you'd be into. Of course, I'm a woman, and our sexual peak is later, our sexuality's more squishy, yadda yadda, but I certainly didn't know the full extent of what I would or wouldn't be into until I'd been sexually active for quite some time. In fact, I'm still discovering new things that turn my crank. If you meet the right person, he'll probably fart in your face whether it turns him on or not... and you might find that what does it for you 5 years from now is something else entirely.
HOPE, you're only 17 -- I'd give the regular old "date & hook up with people you meet any old way" thing a shot before you go limiting yourself just to the world of other fart fetishists. Who knows... you might meet someone who'll indulge your kinks with a fetish of their own that you hadn't even realized you'd be into. Of course, I'm a woman, and our sexual peak is later, our sexuality's more squishy, yadda yadda, but I certainly didn't know the full extent of what I would or wouldn't be into until I'd been sexually active for quite some time. In fact, I'm still discovering new things that turn my crank. If you meet the right person, he'll probably fart in your face whether it turns him on or not... and you might find that what does it for you 5 years from now is something else entirely.
17
Hope should go to the Netherlands. Have you ever noticed that everything fart-related is usually named after the Dutch? Like the Dutch oven, or the Dutch-hand-grenade ... fucking Dutch.
18
I've never been to a prositute so I don't know the etiquette, but are you really expected to tip? Aren't the prices set by the sex worker? If they feel they should be payed a higher amount, can't they just charge what they think is fair?
19
Just a couple of pragmatic, common sense suggestions for FAIL. I certainly hope FAIL and her husband use condoms since a "don't ask, don't tell" policy doesn't work if they bring back STDs, herpes, HPV or critters from their adventures. If someone is dishonest about their relationship status you can bet that they aren't going to be honest about whether or not they have any communicable diseases. Hopefully FAIL and her husband get themselves checked out medically on a regular basis. Like right after they have one of their adventures.
20
Dan, you're usually dead on, that's why I read you. You're also funny as hell some of the time which is awsome too. However you got STH wrong. Here are the correct answers.
1. Yes, she crossed a line and you both know it.
2. Not too much dude, she made out with a gay guy and close friend when they were partying.
3. No, you're not being a selfish prude. You feel a little betrayed because you were a little betrayed. She's contrite and it's cool, no biggie.
It's cool if she flirts if you're cool with it and she is being respectful to what you are cool with.
1. Yes, she crossed a line and you both know it.
2. Not too much dude, she made out with a gay guy and close friend when they were partying.
3. No, you're not being a selfish prude. You feel a little betrayed because you were a little betrayed. She's contrite and it's cool, no biggie.
It's cool if she flirts if you're cool with it and she is being respectful to what you are cool with.
21
DAN you have to link him to James Joyce's love letters. Those were sold in a auction for a record breaking 240,000 pounds. The guy was a fart fetishist CLEARLY and I think it's important to have a historical record of this.
Anyway, the letters can be found for free online and read like the worst/best porn ever depending on your tastes. Either way, it's pretty damn awesome for a letter written 1909 holy crap the language! It's filthy!
This might be a link http://www.tribalwar.com/forums/archive/…
Here's a bbc link to the auction news, look for "Ungovernable lust" http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment…
Anyway, the letters can be found for free online and read like the worst/best porn ever depending on your tastes. Either way, it's pretty damn awesome for a letter written 1909 holy crap the language! It's filthy!
This might be a link http://www.tribalwar.com/forums/archive/…
Here's a bbc link to the auction news, look for "Ungovernable lust" http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment…
22
When I was in my late teens and early 20s, I knew a number of guys who worried themselves sick over their tendency to fart at inopportune times. HOPE shouldn't have a lot of trouble finding a guy his age who farts a lot, so all he has to do is let the fellow know he likes it. If he doesn't want to seem too weird right out the gate, he can say the farting "doesn't bother him one bit". He should plan for his dream date to be dinner at a Mexican (or German) restaurant and then let nature do the rest!
23
@4:
Yeah, and screw Letterman and Conan for putting on the same show again that they originally filmed and broadcast months ago!
Even entertainers go on vacation, and when they do, you get reruns. Deal.
Yeah, and screw Letterman and Conan for putting on the same show again that they originally filmed and broadcast months ago!
Even entertainers go on vacation, and when they do, you get reruns. Deal.
25
Dan, I read your column and your blogs regularly, I listen to your podcast religiously, and I am seriously disappointed that you've been recycling SL letters of the day. I come here expecting new stuff, and I get treated to the old crap I read a few days ago/week ago etc. Please give us new letters.
26
LOL I think it would be convenient to have a bf with a fart fetish. No more having to hold it in. No more taking gas pills after a spicy meal. No more leaving the room to let out the gas. Total freedom to let it rip! :-)
27
@8 & @ 23: there have been times when Dan has been on vacation or spending time with his family and he has rerun an old column and said "check out this oldie but goodie." That's totally cool. But if he's going to the trouble of writing a new column, like this week's, how hard is it to put in 3 new letters as opposed to 2? How much time does that take? An extra 1/2 hour? Anyway, Dan does this a lot - not just because it's the holidays.
Oh yeah - and Letterman and Conan suck, so who cares if they rerun old stuff?
Oh yeah - and Letterman and Conan suck, so who cares if they rerun old stuff?
28
I call "FAKE!" on the last letter. It's just crafted too perfectly to appeal to Dan.
If "HOPE" is legit, I hope he finds someone who can accomodate his kink, but I'm betting this letter's publication just made some frat boy's day.
If "HOPE" is legit, I hope he finds someone who can accomodate his kink, but I'm betting this letter's publication just made some frat boy's day.
29
The response to the married guy seemed harsh. People in committed, monogmous relationships should have a reasonable expectation that their partners won't be French kissing other people. So Yes, he was betrayed, and yes, he has a right to worry. But it was a small betrayal, and it should be a smal amount of worry.
Perhaps a little sympathy is in order?
Perhaps a little sympathy is in order?
30
"Seriously Troubled Here" doesn't trust his wife, and she doesn't want to stop flirting while drunk. This is a flammable situation. The alcohol is the gasoline, and jealousy is the match. I would advise both sides to seek marital help, or part ways before somebody gets badly burned.
31
@4 and others -- the Savage Love column has a wider circulation than the SL Letter of the Day. So repeating interesting Letters of the Day in the column makes sense.
32
LMFAO @ 17... really, I am.
Yeah, this sounds like a guy's dream (although I can't speak for the gay ones...): float an air biscuit and get blown, or laid. Or both. Coooool. But I do wonder: is it the smell? The sound? Is it a humor thing? Even at my advanced age, I still laugh my ass off at farts in movies. Heaven help me.
As far as STH goes, it is only a matter of time before those two blow their marriage up. Flirting and jealousy mixed with alcohol will result in big trouble. Not a matter of if, either, but when. But, I am betting it is STH's wife we hear from, since he got slapped.
Yeah, this sounds like a guy's dream (although I can't speak for the gay ones...): float an air biscuit and get blown, or laid. Or both. Coooool. But I do wonder: is it the smell? The sound? Is it a humor thing? Even at my advanced age, I still laugh my ass off at farts in movies. Heaven help me.
As far as STH goes, it is only a matter of time before those two blow their marriage up. Flirting and jealousy mixed with alcohol will result in big trouble. Not a matter of if, either, but when. But, I am betting it is STH's wife we hear from, since he got slapped.
33
So by Dan's explanation, my wife should not get mad at me if I go out with a couple of bi or dyke chicks, get drunk flirt a little, and french kiss one of them?
Am I the only one that sees something wrong there?
Am I the only one that sees something wrong there?
34
Hey commenters, anyone wanna a clue a fairly good-looking, fairly-vanilla, but very horny gay college boy in about what these websites are that Dan mentions? I'm not such a pick-up artist, but didn't want to be lumped in with the "bi married guy, 48, seeks blond twink for daddy spank" crowd and didn't know there were other options.
35
If FAIL and her husband have a don't ask don't tell policy, why the hell is she giving personal info (like her real name and Facebook profile) to the people she shags? Doesn't she know already that the more traces you leave, the least likely it is that her spouse or the other person's will find out? But then again, if she understood that much, she'd know not to believe men who say their wife won't mind.
36
If FAIL and her husband have a don't ask don't tell policy, why the hell is she giving personal info (like her real name and Facebook profile) to the people she shags? Doesn't she know already that the more traces you leave, the least likely it is that her spouse or the other person's will find out? But then again, if she understood that much, she'd know not to believe men who say their wife won't mind.
37
I don't know that I would have been so hard on the first guy. It sounds like the wife has a drinking problem, and it sounds like she's being obnoxious in her flirting (although when you're drunk, eventually someone will move in to relieve the people you are bothering with your aggressive flirting). If I was the writer, I would be more concerned about her drinking than her flirting. Of course she may be using her drinking as an excuse to flirt.
As for the fart guy: what's the big deal? Everybody farts. And more than half of people fart in their sleep. So just sleep over with someone you're dating and enjoy a nice dutch oven after they doze off. And plenty of guys will be relieved that they don't have to hold in their farts around you.
As for the fart guy: what's the big deal? Everybody farts. And more than half of people fart in their sleep. So just sleep over with someone you're dating and enjoy a nice dutch oven after they doze off. And plenty of guys will be relieved that they don't have to hold in their farts around you.
38
Okay, I grant you that I am straight, married, vanilla, and a bunch older than the kid who likes farts. But Dan, are you seriously telling me that he's going to have to find partners online or by going to sex workers? In a world full of frat boys who think it's hysterical to set farts on fire or learn to fart the Star Spangled Banner? Everybody farts, young (and older) men fart with vigor and gusto, and random farting (and the bland acceptance thereof) feature more and more in most relationships as time goes by. HOPE, quit worrying, date people you like, and feed them lots of roughage.
39
As for James Joyce, I read that stuff a long time ago, so I could be wrong. I don't remember coming away thinking he was all that into farts. He talked about how much she farted after he fucked her in the ass. I thought he was just enjoying the aftermath of his buttfucking. And in those days before condoms and the Pill, heterosexual buttfucking was sometimes called the "Irish way" of family planning.
40
how has nobody else noticed this detail from the first letter:
"After getting kissed on the cheek by a woman I think was a lesbian at a recent party, it came out during the subsequent argument..."
an argument ensued after his wife received a kiss on the cheek from a woman that he thinks may like body parts that his wife has?! i see more than a few red flags there.
i don't think dan is off-base in the least. this guy is a control freak of the worst kind, and i hope his wife is able to save herself.
"After getting kissed on the cheek by a woman I think was a lesbian at a recent party, it came out during the subsequent argument..."
an argument ensued after his wife received a kiss on the cheek from a woman that he thinks may like body parts that his wife has?! i see more than a few red flags there.
i don't think dan is off-base in the least. this guy is a control freak of the worst kind, and i hope his wife is able to save herself.
42
@33 . . . "So by Dan's explanation, my wife should not get mad at me if I go out with a couple of bi or dyke chicks, get drunk flirt a little, and french kiss one of them?
Am I the only one that sees something wrong there? "
No, by Dan's explanation, your wife should not get mad at you if you confess that over a year before you got married, you kissed a lesbian friend of yours. And haven't done it since. Although you did let a gay man kiss you on the cheek recently. Not quite the same as an open pass. Yes, past performance (unlike in the stock market) can be an indication of future results, but not always. We've all done things in the past that we aren't super proud of and don't plan to do again.
Am I the only one that sees something wrong there? "
No, by Dan's explanation, your wife should not get mad at you if you confess that over a year before you got married, you kissed a lesbian friend of yours. And haven't done it since. Although you did let a gay man kiss you on the cheek recently. Not quite the same as an open pass. Yes, past performance (unlike in the stock market) can be an indication of future results, but not always. We've all done things in the past that we aren't super proud of and don't plan to do again.
43
A successful marriage is basically an endless
cycle of wrongs committed, apologies offered,
and forgiveness granted, all leavened by the:
***comfort and stability of deep and reliable friendship; sharing of mutual interests; sharing and division of everyday responsibilities; sharing of big dreams, future plans, and deep and trivial conversation; mutual stockpiling and compounding of assets; AND***
occasional orgasm.
cycle of wrongs committed, apologies offered,
and forgiveness granted, all leavened by the:
***comfort and stability of deep and reliable friendship; sharing of mutual interests; sharing and division of everyday responsibilities; sharing of big dreams, future plans, and deep and trivial conversation; mutual stockpiling and compounding of assets; AND***
occasional orgasm.
44
the first guy seems a little neurotic. BUT, if she knows he doesn't like her aggressively flirting and still does it, that's just disrespectful.
I don't know the details of their relationship, but if I'm monogamous, I don't go around flirting with other dudes, even "mild" flirting. I don't because I know it would piss of my boyfriend. And I know that if I would be furious if I had to stand two feet away and watch my boyfriend drunkenly paw women.
Overall, I don't think these two people should be married. She clearly wants freedom, and he clearly wants control.
I don't know the details of their relationship, but if I'm monogamous, I don't go around flirting with other dudes, even "mild" flirting. I don't because I know it would piss of my boyfriend. And I know that if I would be furious if I had to stand two feet away and watch my boyfriend drunkenly paw women.
Overall, I don't think these two people should be married. She clearly wants freedom, and he clearly wants control.
45
I kind of hate to be a bitch about this detail, but letter number 1 also mentions that they dated for 3 years. And, since "the french kissing incident" occured 2 year into the relationship, her tendency to flirt/dance/drink etc did not suddenly appear after he put a ring on it. So, if he was sooooooo bothered by this behavior, why did he marry her?
46
2 STH points missed by commenters but not by Dan:
1. The "incident" happened BEFORE they got married. If the rule is "no physical contact with other humans after you met me'", than yeah, this guy creeps me out.
2. Is your spouse supposed to refrain from everything you don't like? If so, than negativity (the veto) rules over tolerance.
1. The "incident" happened BEFORE they got married. If the rule is "no physical contact with other humans after you met me'", than yeah, this guy creeps me out.
2. Is your spouse supposed to refrain from everything you don't like? If so, than negativity (the veto) rules over tolerance.
47
Dan, thanks for erring on the side of "the husband might be overreacting/too jealous" for the first letter. Long ago I dated a guy who felt that any talking I did to anyone of the opposite sex automatically constituted "flirting" and he would overreact horribly every time, assaulting people, getting between me and others physically and going off, then later calling my cell phone 40 or 50 times leaving messages. He simply would not let me speak to or interact with any other males! It was horrible and getting away from him was very difficult. I almost had to get a restraining order. So, thanks for recognizing the potential for this type of thing even though it came from the guy's perspective.
49
Fart fetishists should date people with Irritable bowel syndrome. We fart a lot, just no help for it.
50
@46 I don't think the rule is "no physical contact with other humans after you met me" it seems to be more of a "don't french kiss other people after we start dating" which is pretty standard relationship rules.
51
just googled James Joyce's letters - love em! bit to scatalogical for my personal taste in places but I love the way he obviously reveled in real, dirty, great sex, with all it's sweat and noises and smells with the woman he loves, how she really is, her fat thighs and hairy bush obviously arousing him hugely because they're part of her. GGG before all of us were ever born, he obviously had no worries asking for what he desired and she evidently had no hang ups about them either given his letters imply her responses were just as explicit :0) Should be compulsory reading for all those people who waste so much energy worrying if their or their partners desires are 'dirty' or 'taboo' or that if their body isn't perfectly toned, shaved and perfumed no-one could possibly lust after them.
52
That kid who likes farts needs to get a boyfriend, and eat the recommended daily allowance of vegetables together, plus some legumes. White beans are the most gas-producing bean ever, so white bean sage soup with his honey? Oh yeah.
Hello? Does he really need find someone with the same fetish? Everyone farts, and every couple lets 'em loose in front of each other. I guess if he wanted the fart equivalent of golden showers he might need a little extra cooperation, but if he just wants some farts in the mix, learn how to cook those veggies and beans!
Hello? Does he really need find someone with the same fetish? Everyone farts, and every couple lets 'em loose in front of each other. I guess if he wanted the fart equivalent of golden showers he might need a little extra cooperation, but if he just wants some farts in the mix, learn how to cook those veggies and beans!
53
just googled James Joyce's letters - love em! bit to scatalogical for my personal taste in places but I love the way he obviously reveled in real, dirty, great sex, with all it's sweat and noises and smells with the woman he loves, how she really is, her fat thighs and hairy bush obviously arousing him hugely because they're part of her. GGG before all of us were ever born, he obviously had no worries asking for what he desired and she evidently had no hang ups about them either given his letters imply her responses were just as explicit :0) Should be compulsory reading for all those people who waste so much energy worrying if their or their partners desires are 'dirty' or 'taboo' or that if their body isn't perfectly toned, shaved and perfumed no-one could possibly lust after them.
54
"A successful marriage is basically an endless
cycle of wrongs committed, apologies offered,
and forgiveness granted, all leavened by the occasional orgasm."
Well, if that's what a successful marriage is, Dan finally confirms my life-long suspicion that it's not worth the effort and investment. Orgasms feel good, but not THAT good.
cycle of wrongs committed, apologies offered,
and forgiveness granted, all leavened by the occasional orgasm."
Well, if that's what a successful marriage is, Dan finally confirms my life-long suspicion that it's not worth the effort and investment. Orgasms feel good, but not THAT good.
55
@lizvocal: "Fart fetishists should date people with Irritable bowel syndrome. We fart a lot, just no help for it."
Same with Crohn's disease and colitis sufferers! If HOPE dates anyone with chronic digestive problems, he'll be all set.
Same with Crohn's disease and colitis sufferers! If HOPE dates anyone with chronic digestive problems, he'll be all set.
56
Hey Dan: How about an occasional all-queer column or podcast. I know the straights are in the majority and have a lot of problems, but once in a while something, like, totally queer would be adorable.
58
yeh haven't done the fart fetish in a few, maybe 04 or so, of course I missed a few columns. hmm, that's a rough one, hot wife who like to flirt, yeah... rough. *roll*
like forced vacation or time to work on the new novel...pfft.
like forced vacation or time to work on the new novel...pfft.
59
@50 - so "dating" is always assumed to be one at a time from the moment it begins. And I ask again, then what is the point of the marriage vows if you are making an implicit commitment of monogamy the moment you begin "dating." This includes getting carried away for a few seconds on a dance floor with a gay guy. I'm a guy - but frankly I'm on the woman's side with this one. wtf? Let people be themselves. If someone is committed to YOU, that's the thing that matters. They prove that by what they do - sticking around and doing loving things. Not by what they don't do. I'm not saying go out and fuck freely if there's an understanding that's not part of the deal. But flirting is harmless and what's telling is the the reaction of the person threatened by it. I could even see a problem with french kissing strangers all the time or one stranger all the time. But once in a brief moment of abandon? Puh-leez.
60
All girls who have kissed other guys while in a relationship and who I forgave shortly after, ended up fucking some guy behind my back. Happened to friends as well.
NEVER AGAIN, will I forgive a kiss. Maybe the transgression isn't that great, but it's just symptomatic of something worse.
I mean fuck, they were in year two of the relationship. It's not like they'd only just started seeing each other. You don't go that long without being at least a little serious.
I feel like almost everyone in the world cheats besides me.
NEVER AGAIN, will I forgive a kiss. Maybe the transgression isn't that great, but it's just symptomatic of something worse.
I mean fuck, they were in year two of the relationship. It's not like they'd only just started seeing each other. You don't go that long without being at least a little serious.
I feel like almost everyone in the world cheats besides me.
62
The wife is a slightly slutty alcoholic most likely. Live with that or leave, husband. And you're probably a control freak besides, so it is a match made in heaven.
Also, how many columns have to be about sexual fetishes? I guess it makes good copy, but fetishes are only so interesting. Sex does not have to be about gratifying yourself with fetishes.
Also, how many columns have to be about sexual fetishes? I guess it makes good copy, but fetishes are only so interesting. Sex does not have to be about gratifying yourself with fetishes.
63
I know a few guys who are a little too into their farts, but I think most of them are straight. As for the first guy with the flirtatious wife, he needs to lighten up..... http://romantictalk.com/news/flirting-ou…
64
#20, you got it right. It wasn't a huge betrayal, or even a medium sized one, but it was a betrayal. She should apologize, and make an effort to ensure that it doesn't happen again - that is, she should stop drinking.
I'm not anti-drink but it's clear that this woman's judgement is messed up when she's not sober. Nothing in her behaviour has been a huge heinous crime, but these small acts are slowly chipping away at the trust and respect in the relationship. When there's no trust and respect left, there's not going to be a relationship.
I'm not anti-drink but it's clear that this woman's judgement is messed up when she's not sober. Nothing in her behaviour has been a huge heinous crime, but these small acts are slowly chipping away at the trust and respect in the relationship. When there's no trust and respect left, there's not going to be a relationship.
65
Dan, I gotta say that I think your advice to STH is a fail. Imagine if the roles were reversed and it was the husband who carried on the way the wife was: getting drunk and dancing, flirting, touching, and even tonguing gay men (or lesbians) on the dance floor. How would a wife feel in that situation, sitting on the sidelines, rolling her eyes, being dissed and neglected? I don't know many women who would stand for it if their husbands behaved the way STH's wife does when she's intoxicated. There's a double standard here: women are frequently given more slack when it comes to being a bit "wild" ("Girls Gone Wild" for example), but if a guy starts manhandling a bunch of girls, flashes his privates, or starts tonguing the nearest nearby mouth, he's viewed as a philanderer or a douche, or at the very least, a big risk to his partnered female. I think you avoided and ignored the real issue here: the wife's personality changes drastically when she gets drunk or high and the husband doesn't like this "Mrs Hyde" that acts overtly sexual with strangers. What you should have asked STH to examine is a) how often this occurs (only occasionally? or monthly? weekly?); and b) since the wife knows this kind of behavior upsets her husband, why hasn't she modified her behavior? I.e., could she be alcoholic? After all, it's not like he's asking her to change her personality, just her behavior. She may have to stop partying so hard to do that (that's up to her to decide). Bottom line: it doesn't sound like these two people are matched well and if the wife wants to continue her foot loose and fancy free lifestyle and the husband doesn't care for the behavior, they may both be better off looking for different partners with values that compliment rather than clash with their own.
66
"Dan, stop putting letters in your column that you posted to the blog!" "Dan stop writing so much about sex fetishes in your sex column!" "Dan you don't write enough about teh gays!"
Damn people get over your idiocy and stupid false sense of entitlement.
Damn people get over your idiocy and stupid false sense of entitlement.
67
@59 There are typically three major stages, a progression of steps, in a long term monogamous relationship. Exclusive dating, living together, and then marriage. Each step represents an increase in commitment.
68
her fat thighs and hairy bush obviously arousing him hugely because they're part of her... if their body isn't perfectly toned, shaved and perfumed no-one could possibly lust after them.
Weeeeeeeeeeellllll, you should keep in mind that fat thighs and a hairy bush were generally considered sexy back then. Skinny thighs were not seen as attractive.
This is not to argue that a person can't be lusted after even if they don't fit the bill of the current mainstream ideal, but just to point out that Joyce was not exactly bucking convention in loving Nora's fat thighs. That WAS the mainstream ideal.
Weeeeeeeeeeellllll, you should keep in mind that fat thighs and a hairy bush were generally considered sexy back then. Skinny thighs were not seen as attractive.
This is not to argue that a person can't be lusted after even if they don't fit the bill of the current mainstream ideal, but just to point out that Joyce was not exactly bucking convention in loving Nora's fat thighs. That WAS the mainstream ideal.
69
HOPE, there are heaps of guys out there with a fart fetish, believe me, gay and straight. Go do a search for "fart" on X-tube, or join a yahoo group like http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Male-Farts or look around. Porn film maker Michael Lucas has even made a mainstream gay porn film called 'Farts'. You're not alone...
71
What's with all the caution and prevarication regarding the fart fetish? I've never heard of it or thought of it before, but it doesn't seem like that big a deal. If a boy I was dating told me about it and we got semi-serious (dating a few months, maybe), I'd totally indulge him.
72
@59 No, it's USUALLY assumed to be one at a time and most especially after two years. Moreover, it's obvious that she broke the rules that they as a couple had ("she acknowledges that a line was crossed (which is why she didn't tell me when it happened)").
"And I ask again, then what is the point of the marriage vows if you are making an implicit commitment of monogamy the moment you begin "dating.""
B/c marriage isn't only about monogamy. There's plenty of women that I've dated monogamously but I wasn't sure if I wanted to give them power of attorney, rights of inheritance, etc. Plus there is open, non-monogamous marriages too.
"And I ask again, then what is the point of the marriage vows if you are making an implicit commitment of monogamy the moment you begin "dating.""
B/c marriage isn't only about monogamy. There's plenty of women that I've dated monogamously but I wasn't sure if I wanted to give them power of attorney, rights of inheritance, etc. Plus there is open, non-monogamous marriages too.
73
Dan has a big ol' blind spot regarding people who act stupidly when drinking too much, because he often writes his columns when he's drunk--or at least he used to do so.
74
Anyone who questions whether or not fart fetishists exist should try reading the good old Marquis de Sade's "120 Days of Sodom." Trying to read that massive tribute to all products of the ass made me realize that the Marquis was probably more into farts and shit than the whips and chains desires that were named after him.
I think there's more hope for HOPE than Dan says, though. He might have to resort to online or sex worker fetish fulfillment for a little while, but all he really needs to do is find a guy who farts all the time. My boyfriend farts loudly and obnoxiously, he pushes it out if he even feels a minor urge, then he laughs about it with the pride of a 10 year old. Apparently this is something from his upbringing, because his whole family just lets it rip whenever and wherever they are. He does it so proudly I can hardly believe he's gay sometimes. I really had to get used to this because I was raised to be a lot more "proper". He's good BF material in every other way - we've been together almost a decade - but if I had one wish I'd probably change this about him (When we're out for dinner? Seriously?) But if HOPE found a guy like him (I'm sure there are more out there), he'd be in seventh heaven.
I think there's more hope for HOPE than Dan says, though. He might have to resort to online or sex worker fetish fulfillment for a little while, but all he really needs to do is find a guy who farts all the time. My boyfriend farts loudly and obnoxiously, he pushes it out if he even feels a minor urge, then he laughs about it with the pride of a 10 year old. Apparently this is something from his upbringing, because his whole family just lets it rip whenever and wherever they are. He does it so proudly I can hardly believe he's gay sometimes. I really had to get used to this because I was raised to be a lot more "proper". He's good BF material in every other way - we've been together almost a decade - but if I had one wish I'd probably change this about him (When we're out for dinner? Seriously?) But if HOPE found a guy like him (I'm sure there are more out there), he'd be in seventh heaven.
75
Hadn't heard of eproctophilia before and not quite sure of how it all works. But I do know that with anal sex, farts happen (and sometimes shit). So does a eproctophiliac want to fart in someone's face or have someone fart in theirs? If you want to fart in someone else's face then it might be hard to find willing partners. But if you want someone to fart in yours, I would say find yourself a good bottom and ride his ass like there is no tomorrow. You'll get your farts and he'll be pleased. Eventually, every time he passes gas he'll probably pop a boner.
The thing about being GGG is you want to indulge your partner. It turns you on to see your partner turned on. At 17, I would imagine you haven't the experience of building the bond of intimacy where you can share your desires with a partner. It probably isn't a first date topic. Perhaps the eproctophilia community could share with you how to handle the conversation. While your partner may not understand it, they will understand that you like it.
Long ago I tricked a couple of times with a guy who was into the smell of shit. i didn't realize it at first. He would poke his finger in my ass, and then hold it near our faces. I would sort of move to get the smell out of my nose. It took me a while to catch on that when I would shift to get it away he would shift to bring it back. So I just moved enough to get it away from me and he could enjoy the aroma himself.
And as someone who is nearing 60, I have to say when you get your long term relationship, your golden years may be bliss.
The thing about being GGG is you want to indulge your partner. It turns you on to see your partner turned on. At 17, I would imagine you haven't the experience of building the bond of intimacy where you can share your desires with a partner. It probably isn't a first date topic. Perhaps the eproctophilia community could share with you how to handle the conversation. While your partner may not understand it, they will understand that you like it.
Long ago I tricked a couple of times with a guy who was into the smell of shit. i didn't realize it at first. He would poke his finger in my ass, and then hold it near our faces. I would sort of move to get the smell out of my nose. It took me a while to catch on that when I would shift to get it away he would shift to bring it back. So I just moved enough to get it away from me and he could enjoy the aroma himself.
And as someone who is nearing 60, I have to say when you get your long term relationship, your golden years may be bliss.
76
I can't read through all these comments right now - so I don't know if this point has been raised - but I'm not sure I would even go so far as to characterize the Bride of STH's behavior as flirting - I have known women- usually from ethnic backgrounds different than my own (WASP) - who are warm-hearted, genuinely attracted to people, who express affection and feeling through touching, as well as through laughing, smiling, and telling stories. It is not meant to be a sexual come on, or 'flirting' however you define that term. It seems to be just a natural, involuntary means of expression - cultural. It may be scary to witness coming from an uptight WASP background but it is possible that it is not weighted with the emotional meaning that STH seems to give it.
Am I right - or was she really flirting - as in - I'm so sexy, you're so sexy, aren't we something.
Am I right - or was she really flirting - as in - I'm so sexy, you're so sexy, aren't we something.
77
We really need input from The Bride. Dancing close- yes - sounds like flirting. But I can easily imagine a scenario in which The Bride is hoping to get a rise out of Hubby: uptight, dead nuts hubby, after observing how lovely his wife is, and how interested the other guys are in her, will hopefully rush her home and bang her lights out for the first time in six months - rather than sulking, fuming, and writing down every single infraction in his Book of Betrayal. Just a guess.
78
Either that or she want Hubby Milquetoast to get angry, be the aggressor, assert himself - then they fight and cry - and then they fuck. Don't you people ever watch soap operas?
79
I'll shut up
As far as the 'french' kiss in the gay bar - I think a lot of str8 men are unaware of how liberating it can be for a str8 woman to go out dancing with her gay pals - she's around all these beautiful men, she can drink a bit too much, act silly, dance and act sexy, enjoy male company - knowing there is no sexual component to it - there probably is no other place where a woman can act this uninhibited without the fear of some sort of consequences to herself -
As far as the 'french' kiss in the gay bar - I think a lot of str8 men are unaware of how liberating it can be for a str8 woman to go out dancing with her gay pals - she's around all these beautiful men, she can drink a bit too much, act silly, dance and act sexy, enjoy male company - knowing there is no sexual component to it - there probably is no other place where a woman can act this uninhibited without the fear of some sort of consequences to herself -
80
I don't understand why you do this, Dan. Why would you use this (first) question in your column when you ran it on Slog on 12/15?! As a regular reader of your column, I feel very gypped when you do this, and I don't get it... you get so little mail that you need to recycle?!
82
@80 B/c his column appears in more places than just the stranger's web site. If there was an interesting/important/etc. point made then it would make sense to bring it to a wider audience.
83
Dan, I disagree with your advice to the first letter writer. The way to stay faithful to your spouse is to not put yourself in stupid situations in the first place, and this woman has repeatedly put herself in stupid situations. She has no boundaries and unless she takes her husband's complaints seriously and alters her behavior SHE WILL end up screwing someone else. Remember, alcohol lowers inhibitions and she's drinking while she's doing this. Her husband has every right to be worried. That being said, IF she does in fact alter her behavior and set more clear boundaries THEN her husband should forgive her - but apologies mean nothing if you just keep repeating the same behavior.
84
Hmmm...
I've never heard of a "fart fetish."
However, years ago at the firehouse, we used to have annual farting contests.
The guys would eat the most disgusting things they could think of for lunch and dinner, in the hopes that it would cause gas by 8PM.
Farts were scored like Olympic skating, from zero to 10; based on abruptness, tonal quality, tonal variation, duration, and odor.
Sometimes, Sheriff’s deputies would come into the firehouse to take a break and maybe do some paperwork. If they walked through the TV room, they would often comment about how disgusting it smelled.
We even had one volunteer captain who could fart on command. One could say, "Hey, Frenchy, how about one?" and Frenchy would lift his leg and let one rip. I could never understand how he did that, almost any time day or night.
The C Shift Captain usually won the contest.
I've never heard of a "fart fetish."
However, years ago at the firehouse, we used to have annual farting contests.
The guys would eat the most disgusting things they could think of for lunch and dinner, in the hopes that it would cause gas by 8PM.
Farts were scored like Olympic skating, from zero to 10; based on abruptness, tonal quality, tonal variation, duration, and odor.
Sometimes, Sheriff’s deputies would come into the firehouse to take a break and maybe do some paperwork. If they walked through the TV room, they would often comment about how disgusting it smelled.
We even had one volunteer captain who could fart on command. One could say, "Hey, Frenchy, how about one?" and Frenchy would lift his leg and let one rip. I could never understand how he did that, almost any time day or night.
The C Shift Captain usually won the contest.
85
HOPE might take a reading through 1601 by Samuel L. Clemens [Mark Twain]. An interesting edition is that with a short essay, "Who wrote '1601?'. An Excerpt from 'Mark Twain.' a Biography by Albert Bigelow Paine (1861-1937)." That published by Earth Publishing Company in 1955 is readily available on http://www.bookfinder.com/search/?author… "He [Paine] was the official biographer and literary executor for Mark Twain, and worked with him (and on his behalf after his death) on various projects." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albert_Pain…
A very active related resource that might interest HOPE is http://www.justusboys.com/forum/showthre… This is a very accessible site that allows persons of shared interests to contact one another. On this page 3 are four of my writings. Cf. MUSINGS as author.
Tainted clouds in mixed company have been a source of interest for much longer than HOPE may have suspected. Hope does, in truth, spring from the human heart eternal. There are plenty of like minds out there, Laddie!
A very active related resource that might interest HOPE is http://www.justusboys.com/forum/showthre… This is a very accessible site that allows persons of shared interests to contact one another. On this page 3 are four of my writings. Cf. MUSINGS as author.
Tainted clouds in mixed company have been a source of interest for much longer than HOPE may have suspected. Hope does, in truth, spring from the human heart eternal. There are plenty of like minds out there, Laddie!
86
Im not a fart fetishist but man do i think they are funny! i enjoy farts and while me and my man are having sex if he lets one out, especially if its a real blaster i am not in the least turned off. most realistic folks dont think farts are so bad, don't worry HOPE. Any man worth keeping will be way into your farts (or he'll be way into you being way into his farts)
87
I for one can safely say I never need to read another Savage article and related commentary about farting.
88
@18: as a sex worker I can explain: We are pretty much bound to ask for what other sex workers in our area are asking for. By which I mean if I think I deserve $500 but every other girl on CL or redbook or whatever is asking for $300 then no one is going to call me. Also some sex workers have to pay a madam or other organization so a tip is a nice thing to do since they have to give up some of the asking price anyway. And also: it's always nice to tip no matter what the service is that you're receiving!
89
Damned stright, QXZJ, and also, I think of the 'recommended tip' (as it's known in NZ) asthe base requirement. If you had a good time, and think you'd like to come back and see hir again, that's where the extra tip comes into play. It's a way of aknowledging that s/he went above and beyond the regular.
91
Dan, Dan -- too harsh on the married guy with the flirty wife. I agree that he's over-reacting, but if they had decided to be exclusive at the time of the kiss, then the kiss was a breach, and should have been revealed at the time. A lie of omission is still a lie, and someone who lies because it is easier is bad news.
92
STH: "I married my wife several months ago after dating three years. Things are generally excellent, except for one problem: When my wife gets drunk, she gets crazy flirtatious. She'll dance close to people, touch them, hold hands. A couple of times, I thought it went too far and I told her so. She claims it is just harmless and she would never let anything happen."
I've had two girlfriends like this. Both eventually went beyond flirting. Not suggesting that all women who are very flirtatious are going to take it further or that your wife eventually will, but I wouldn't choose to be with a woman like that again.
As for the guy into farts, I get such a kick out of the kinks that men can have. He may not have it easy finding another guy who's also into farts but I can almost guarantee he'll have an easier time than if he was looking for a woman into farts.
I've had two girlfriends like this. Both eventually went beyond flirting. Not suggesting that all women who are very flirtatious are going to take it further or that your wife eventually will, but I wouldn't choose to be with a woman like that again.
As for the guy into farts, I get such a kick out of the kinks that men can have. He may not have it easy finding another guy who's also into farts but I can almost guarantee he'll have an easier time than if he was looking for a woman into farts.
93
STH,
Your feelings are sincere and need to be paid attention to. You need to be honest with yourself and your wife. Between the two of you you'll find middle ground. Being shamed into accepting behavior that makes you feel uncomfortable isn't going to make your marriage a healthy one. No one can tell you what is sexy, edgy behavior and what is crossing the line except you. Start at the fact that her kissing someone makes you uncomfortable and work from there. Good luck to you. A good marriage is more important than a good health plan --it just requires more work.
Your feelings are sincere and need to be paid attention to. You need to be honest with yourself and your wife. Between the two of you you'll find middle ground. Being shamed into accepting behavior that makes you feel uncomfortable isn't going to make your marriage a healthy one. No one can tell you what is sexy, edgy behavior and what is crossing the line except you. Start at the fact that her kissing someone makes you uncomfortable and work from there. Good luck to you. A good marriage is more important than a good health plan --it just requires more work.
94
Someone with a fart fetish should find someone who's lactose intolerant... they have pungent gas in abundance. Many might be too embarrassed to indulge their partner's fetish by letting loose, but as a cheese-loving lactose intolerant myself, I would be pleased to find someone who heard sweet music in my butt-trumpeting.
95
It would be histerically funny if he found someone with a fart fetish and the person accidently shit on his face. LMAO!!! But then again, he would probably like that too.
As far as the flirt goes, Peoples true sides come out when they are drunk so she is probably a serious flirt all the time accept for when she is with her husband.
As far as the flirt goes, Peoples true sides come out when they are drunk so she is probably a serious flirt all the time accept for when she is with her husband.
96
@81 I thought you had to friend someone for that person to put something on your Facebook page.
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Successful cheaters are or become skillful and practiced liars. If a cheater is willing to deceive their spouse, why would you expect them to be truthful to you? How incredibly naive. If you are hooking up with a stranger, then you have to deal with all of the inherent risks. I’m surprised that the wife didn’t contact all of the members of your social network, including your husband, unless he doesn’t know about your Facebook page.
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FAIL provides very little detail about the nature of her marriage and the situation. It doesn't sound like she has an open relationship, they just don't want to know about what happens when they are apart. Does that mean they want to know about what happens when they are together? Does the spouse who stays home have the same freedom as the traveling spouse? What does being apart mean? Anytime that they physically apart for any length of time? What other ground rules are there? Are continuing relationships allowed? Is on-going communication permitted? How did the wife find out about her?.
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Successful cheaters are or become skillful and practiced liars. If a cheater is willing to deceive their spouse, why would you expect them to be truthful to you? How incredibly naive. If you are hooking up with a stranger, then you have to deal with all of the inherent risks. I’m surprised that the wife didn’t contact all of the members of your social network, including your husband, unless he doesn’t know about your Facebook page.
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
FAIL provides very little detail about the nature of her marriage and the situation. It doesn't sound like she has an open relationship, they just don't want to know about what happens when they are apart. Does that mean they want to know about what happens when they are together? Does the spouse who stays home have the same freedom as the traveling spouse? What does being apart mean? Anytime that they physically apart for any length of time? What other ground rules are there? Are continuing relationships allowed? Is on-going communication permitted? How did the wife find out about her?.
97
Dan you are a very funny man. Funny haha. You deserve your own show. Does your partner give you jokes or do you come up with these yourself? You could turn your talent into a very funny sitcom.
98
I'd like to point out that even though the first author claims to have a fart fetish, he is only 17... and tastes change (if you'll forgive the expression).
I mean that it's good that he recognizes this interest and kink that he has, but it doesn't mean that he will ALWAYS necessarily have this kink or desire. He may be able to establish a relationship with another that has nothing to do with this kink, but keep it privately to himself. He may also discover that he's only thrilled with the prohibited nature of the act...and that when in a relationship, that will mean more to him than farts.
Not to deny his interest in this kink (Know thyself), but just because we have these interests or kink does NOT mean that we HAVE to act on them. ....or not...
I mean that it's good that he recognizes this interest and kink that he has, but it doesn't mean that he will ALWAYS necessarily have this kink or desire. He may be able to establish a relationship with another that has nothing to do with this kink, but keep it privately to himself. He may also discover that he's only thrilled with the prohibited nature of the act...and that when in a relationship, that will mean more to him than farts.
Not to deny his interest in this kink (Know thyself), but just because we have these interests or kink does NOT mean that we HAVE to act on them. ....or not...
100
fart fetish boy could turn his fart fetish into a career by becoming a colonoscopy technician. Basically they blow air up there so the scope can see something. My colonoscopy guy rather enjoyed his job too much. You could be that guy! I bet it would take the edge off
101
@100: Getting regular boners at work sounds like a quick way to lose your run-of-the-mill colonoscopy tech gig. Some great television material there, though. "Tonight on a very special ER..."
103
Why is the wife of the guy FAIL hooked up with harassing FAIL? Doesn't she realize she was horribly betrayed by her husband, not by FAIL? If my husband told a woman on a business trip we were "in an open relationship" I would certainly not blame any woman he hooked up with; I would DTMFA.
104
Love that you followed STH with FAIL.
Messages for both of them:
STH, maybe what you need is to try it yourself. She's obv. a sensual gal. You're lucky in that way. I'm sure if you did the same she'd be ok with it.. so DO it. I know you were checking out that hot chick earlier. Go flirt and play a little. Try it her way. You'll understand better where she's coming from. You might even become more secure in yourself (which is damned sexy in a man). You might even find you like it.
Savage, How does someone like FAIL make sure they don't bring home an STD or a 'baby'? I'm all for people doing what they like, but I've always been cautious enough about that stuff to remain a serial monogamist (where sex is concerned).
Messages for both of them:
STH, maybe what you need is to try it yourself. She's obv. a sensual gal. You're lucky in that way. I'm sure if you did the same she'd be ok with it.. so DO it. I know you were checking out that hot chick earlier. Go flirt and play a little. Try it her way. You'll understand better where she's coming from. You might even become more secure in yourself (which is damned sexy in a man). You might even find you like it.
Savage, How does someone like FAIL make sure they don't bring home an STD or a 'baby'? I'm all for people doing what they like, but I've always been cautious enough about that stuff to remain a serial monogamist (where sex is concerned).
105
I know this might be a shock, danny boy, but to some people a kiss is a lot more meaningful than to others (you). A "meaningless kiss" is an oxymoron to those people, and they are not few. The problem isn't that she gave some guy tongue while drunk, it's that she not only didn't tell him, but that she fucking lied about it. "I've never let it get out of hand" is a flat out lie, and she knew it. I wouldn't want to be married to a person like that because it is only a matter of time before she lets it get out of hand and she fucks someone while drunk. I'm rather shocked that you'd be so insulting to someone with a genuine problem, and that problem is not that he's a prude; it's that his wife doesn't respect him enough to lay off the sauce and stop feeling up everyone in a 10 foot radius.
106
Yeah, I guess Dan is tolerant of every kink but hard-core monogamy. Seriously, I'm disapointed.
Like so many are saying, she's an attention whore, and will absolutely, positively, fuck someone while drunk. Being bothered by that dosen't make the guy controlling.
Jeez.
Like so many are saying, she's an attention whore, and will absolutely, positively, fuck someone while drunk. Being bothered by that dosen't make the guy controlling.
Jeez.
107
@103 It all depends on what the wife knows and how she found out? Who is sge going to belief, her "loving" husband or some lying skank? We don't really know the facts or even very many of them? Just what FAIL said happened? Some wifes (Hillary) are delusional about their husband's infidelity and wikk do whatever to maintain the illusion.
108
@103 It all depends on what the wife knows and how she found out? Who is sge going to belief, her "loving" husband or some lying skank? We don't really know the facts or even very many of them? Just what FAIL said happened? Some wifes (Hillary) are delusional about their husband's infidelity and will do whatever to maintain the illusion.
109
Dan, your advice to STH is rather harsh. First, he has the right, with his wife, to set the boundaries of their relationship. I wouldn't want my husband going out with friend, getting drunk and out-of-control, and making out with other people. Second, it sounds like the wife has some serious problems with sexuality and alcohol. It sounds like this is a couple who needs some long honest talks and maybe some therapy.
110
I mean that it's good that he recognizes this interest and kink that he has, but it doesn't mean that he will ALWAYS necessarily have this kink or desire. He may be able to establish a relationship with another that has nothing to do with this kink, but keep it privately to himself. He may also discover that he's only thrilled with the prohibited nature of the act...and that when in a relationship, that will mean more to him than farts.
Not to deny his interest in this kink (Know thyself), but just because we have these interests or kink does NOT mean that we HAVE to act on them. ....or not...
_______________
In Reply 98 O my Captain has written the much overused word Kink five times. It is never clear to me, here in this column and elsewhere, just what a Kink is. Also much overused, and usually incorrectly, is the word Fetish. Why not simply refer to the various odds-'n-ends of sexual lore as what they truly are, Enhancements. This might help, to some extent, defuse the stigma so often attached to otherwise commonplace thoughts and activities found throughout society.
Not to deny his interest in this kink (Know thyself), but just because we have these interests or kink does NOT mean that we HAVE to act on them. ....or not...
_______________
In Reply 98 O my Captain has written the much overused word Kink five times. It is never clear to me, here in this column and elsewhere, just what a Kink is. Also much overused, and usually incorrectly, is the word Fetish. Why not simply refer to the various odds-'n-ends of sexual lore as what they truly are, Enhancements. This might help, to some extent, defuse the stigma so often attached to otherwise commonplace thoughts and activities found throughout society.
111
Dan's advice to STH was solid, though the woman isn't entirely without "blame" here. STH is controlling, by definition, as are ALL people who are into strict monogamy. Monogamy is an enforced behavioral code, and enforcing a behavior code on someone (that that person wouldn't otherwise follow) is sort of the definition of controlling. It's not *necessarily* bad to be controlling in some instances (drug abuse intervention?), but STH's reaction seems a bit extreme. What, exactly, is the threat/harm in the wife (even if she were to do it at this point) making-out with a gay man? I suppose it's a potential vector for the flu, cold, encephalitis, or oral herpes, but I'd hope her friend isn't gonna kiss her while he's sick... It's not like there's a threat to the relationship: she's not gonna leave her long-term partner and future husband for a gay man (and if she is, wouldn't you rather it happen sooner than later?). The only thing I can see as being problematic about kissing someone else is that she's not all "his" or something like that, but, again, that's unreasonable, controlling behavior, since she ISN'T "his". Women are people now, not property, with legally equal (mostly) rights and everything. The same holds true for flirty men; I feel like the implication that Dan would apply a double-standard here is without cause, as he typically come down on the side of "monogamy is an unrealistic expectation," irrespective of gender.
The fact is that monogamy IS an unrealistic expectation for a majority of the population: most people "cheat" (though it might not be cheating, depending on the relationship) at some point or points (does someone have the data for a 2009 yearly sex-practices poll?). That said, people who don't/won't/can't handle monogamy really shouldn't date/marry people who are really into it, so the wife isn't without some responsibility. Yes cultural pressure tells us we're bad people if we're not monogamous, but that doesn't mean we have to bow to it. So, controlling strict-monogamy types: loosen up and work on a supportive, loving relationship that your partners won't want to leave instead of obsessing over behavior that presents minimal-to-no risk to you. As for people who are bad at monogamy: don't listen to the cultural pressures that say monogamy is necessary or even desirable - own-up to the fact that your bad at monogamy (or strict monogamy) and be up-front about it with your sex partners, as it's still assumed to be the norm. Definitely don't marry people who want something radically different from a relationship than do you.
More...
The fact is that monogamy IS an unrealistic expectation for a majority of the population: most people "cheat" (though it might not be cheating, depending on the relationship) at some point or points (does someone have the data for a 2009 yearly sex-practices poll?). That said, people who don't/won't/can't handle monogamy really shouldn't date/marry people who are really into it, so the wife isn't without some responsibility. Yes cultural pressure tells us we're bad people if we're not monogamous, but that doesn't mean we have to bow to it. So, controlling strict-monogamy types: loosen up and work on a supportive, loving relationship that your partners won't want to leave instead of obsessing over behavior that presents minimal-to-no risk to you. As for people who are bad at monogamy: don't listen to the cultural pressures that say monogamy is necessary or even desirable - own-up to the fact that your bad at monogamy (or strict monogamy) and be up-front about it with your sex partners, as it's still assumed to be the norm. Definitely don't marry people who want something radically different from a relationship than do you.
112
111/John: Dan's advice to STH was solid, though the woman isn't entirely without "blame" here. STH is controlling, by definition, as are ALL people who are into strict monogamy. Monogamy is an enforced behavioral code, and enforcing a behavior code on someone (that that person wouldn't otherwise follow) is sort of the definition of controlling.
Let's say you're considering joining a carpool and you're a person who loves to talk. The people in the carpool tell you that one of their rules is that you have to be quiet.
Are they, by your definition, controlling? Yes.
But are they enforcing their behavioral code on you? No.
You can choose to join another carpool, one with people who love to talk just as much as you do. If you choose to join the quiet carpool, knowing full-well in advance what their rule is, and then talk anyway (or complain about being "controlled"), you're a jerk.
Let's say you're considering joining a carpool and you're a person who loves to talk. The people in the carpool tell you that one of their rules is that you have to be quiet.
Are they, by your definition, controlling? Yes.
But are they enforcing their behavioral code on you? No.
You can choose to join another carpool, one with people who love to talk just as much as you do. If you choose to join the quiet carpool, knowing full-well in advance what their rule is, and then talk anyway (or complain about being "controlled"), you're a jerk.
113
Regard STH and his flirtatious wife, I am always a bit suspect of anyone who claims to have a serious relationship issue and then writes an open letter to an advice columnists (be it Dan or Dear Abby) seeking affirmation of what they believe or how they are handling the situation. Such people don't really seem to want help, but rather permission to keep doing what is clearly not working. I doubt Dan really needs to spell out how a mature person should handle the situation: It is not unreasonable for the husband to expect that his wife won't "go wild" and grope or kiss other people, but he needs to be reasonable with what his expectations are and also consider whether his own behavior is contributing to the problem. Kissing some gay guy (meaning it wasn't go to go anywhere) before they were married was mildly disrespectful to him, but it wasn't some grand betrayal, and he is just using that incident to support his insecurities about their relationship. And there's nothing attractive about an insecure person. He needs to have a calm and rational conversation with his wife about how her drinking and resulting "wild behavior" concerns him, and how he wants her to get her drinking under control, not just for his peace of mind, but for her own well-being. Then, he needs to tell her that he loves her for who she is, including her warm, earthy, and even flirty personality, and that he's fine with her being bubbly and out-going with others, so long as she keeps it within reasonable boundaries (and dancing with others and non-tongue kissing should be reasonable for him). Finally, he needs to LET GO, and accept that how she handles herself is up to her. He needs to either trust her, or not, and if he doesn't trust her, whether or not she gives him reason for his mistrust, he needs to understand that it is HIS problem to resolve, which may include simply letting go of his jealousy, getting therapy, or perhaps acknowledging that his relationship with his wife is not a good match and that he needs to move on.
More...
114
I'm with Dan Savage on the first guy. I'd probably be bothered by a French kiss, too, so I can understand that. What concerns me is that they were arguing in the first place over *a kiss on the cheek* from a female friend who may or may not be a lesbian.
I had an ex like that. Flipped out because I exchanged kisses (on the cheek) with a lesbian friend of mine. Months later he was still obsessing over it (I had pretty much ended my friendship with her because it bothered him so much). I ultimately ended our relationship because I couldn't deal with his lack of trust.
I have never cheated, would never cheat, and will never cheat. I am meticulously honest with everyone I date about exactly how open I intend the relationship to be, and I follow through on that.
I had an ex like that. Flipped out because I exchanged kisses (on the cheek) with a lesbian friend of mine. Months later he was still obsessing over it (I had pretty much ended my friendship with her because it bothered him so much). I ultimately ended our relationship because I couldn't deal with his lack of trust.
I have never cheated, would never cheat, and will never cheat. I am meticulously honest with everyone I date about exactly how open I intend the relationship to be, and I follow through on that.
115
Did everybody read the NYTimes article about Uganda?
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/04/world/…
There should be some US or international law that these people can be prosecuted under!
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/04/world/…
There should be some US or international law that these people can be prosecuted under!
116
Re HOPE ...
Am I missing something? Isn't he a GUY ... IN COLLEGE ... who wants to be with guys ... WHO FART?
College was many years ago now, but I don't recall this being a problem.
Am I missing something? Isn't he a GUY ... IN COLLEGE ... who wants to be with guys ... WHO FART?
College was many years ago now, but I don't recall this being a problem.
117
And re STH ...
Let's review: "When my wife gets drunk, she gets crazy flirtatious. She'll dance close to people, touch them, hold hands."
Dance close? Touch them? Hold hands? These are not "crazy flirtatious" moves, STH. This what what a lot of monogamous people do when they dance with someone-not-their-partner. It's why dancing is fun; it's socially condoned flirting. It lets off the steam built up by monogamy. Who told you it was wrong?
If this is morally objectionable to you, like it's against how you read the Bible, then you need to leave this marriage ASAP, and move to Footloose UT.
STH doesn't say his wife gets drunk all the time, which would be a problem.
Seth's obsession with The Kiss, not to mention with others' sexual orientation, lead me to believe he needs to get drunk and dance and flirt with some ladies. He will see that lightning won't strike him dead, and then he can cut his new wife some slack.
In other words, STH: Get over yourself. If things are, overall, "excellent," keep your eye on the big picture. You're married to a loving, sexy lady who doesn't have problems showing affection.
Let's review: "When my wife gets drunk, she gets crazy flirtatious. She'll dance close to people, touch them, hold hands."
Dance close? Touch them? Hold hands? These are not "crazy flirtatious" moves, STH. This what what a lot of monogamous people do when they dance with someone-not-their-partner. It's why dancing is fun; it's socially condoned flirting. It lets off the steam built up by monogamy. Who told you it was wrong?
If this is morally objectionable to you, like it's against how you read the Bible, then you need to leave this marriage ASAP, and move to Footloose UT.
STH doesn't say his wife gets drunk all the time, which would be a problem.
Seth's obsession with The Kiss, not to mention with others' sexual orientation, lead me to believe he needs to get drunk and dance and flirt with some ladies. He will see that lightning won't strike him dead, and then he can cut his new wife some slack.
In other words, STH: Get over yourself. If things are, overall, "excellent," keep your eye on the big picture. You're married to a loving, sexy lady who doesn't have problems showing affection.
119
Oh ferheavenssake. People are ready a lot of their own personal backstory into STH's letter. I'm the biggest, monogamist control freak anyone is likely to ever meet and even I had too much to drink one night and kissed a total stranger on a dancefloor (there was tongue). And no, I didn't tell my BF, because it was a stupid moment, not a sexy one.
Maybe the Bride is an irresponsible slut in training. Or not. But one thing is for sure - STH needs to pull the stick out of his ass and deal with this (and his wife) like an adult.
Maybe the Bride is an irresponsible slut in training. Or not. But one thing is for sure - STH needs to pull the stick out of his ass and deal with this (and his wife) like an adult.
120
That Laurie Higgins, from Gay Grinch's group, sure is a moron.
Guys and gals, send her a little light so she can learn to open her heart and her mind.
Guys and gals, send her a little light so she can learn to open her heart and her mind.
121
As for the jack-asses whining about Mr. Savage so-called recycling his 'letter of the day', by adding it to the 'letters of the week' (do I have this big shtink over nothing correct?) , MY GOD, GET A DAMN LIFE ! You KNOW you have paid $10, $20, $100., & a LOT more depending on if you were seeing a movie, a Broadway show on opening night, trying a very new and trendy eatery, a performance art showing, etc. And you also DEFINATELY KNOW that you have been SO MUCH MORE entertained by SAVAGE LOVE for FREE than these other pretentious social activities. Save for a very few Indy films & actually laughing with disgust at mainstream Hollywood movies & T.V., honestly, how often do you idiots actually LAUGH OUT LOUD? No, LOL does NOT count. Well I thank my lucky stars for Mr. Savage every day just as you BOOBS should instead of nitpicking for the sake of nitpicking.
By the way, yes, you absolutely ALWAYS TIP in the sex service industry even if you are w/ a $5k per hour sex worker. $100. is fine for a tip. It's a gesture, to show you are pleased with the service. I made sure my clients were pleased enough to leave huge tips, jewelry, cars, rent, etc
EX- SEX INDUSTRY KITTEN / LOVER/OF AND DAN YENTA
By the way, yes, you absolutely ALWAYS TIP in the sex service industry even if you are w/ a $5k per hour sex worker. $100. is fine for a tip. It's a gesture, to show you are pleased with the service. I made sure my clients were pleased enough to leave huge tips, jewelry, cars, rent, etc
EX- SEX INDUSTRY KITTEN / LOVER/OF AND DAN YENTA
122
I loved the definition of a successful marriage. The physicist's point of view, just for fun: every endless cycle has its so called "characteristic time scale" which could be defined let's say as the average time it takes for the cycle to complete one turn (the period of a pendulum, etc...). A physicist would say each individual's appreciation of success is correlated with the threshold in this time scale each of us is willing to tolerate... one idiocy per year, per lustre (well, a decent model should include of course some measure of the intensity of the "wrong doing"!)
...And then your biologist partner will start looking at how much the threshold depends on nature (genes) and nurture (environment), etc... If you're lucky you will stop discussing at some point and proceed to the occasional leavening moment :)
cheers Dan.
...And then your biologist partner will start looking at how much the threshold depends on nature (genes) and nurture (environment), etc... If you're lucky you will stop discussing at some point and proceed to the occasional leavening moment :)
cheers Dan.
123
I think farts are hilarious so I guess I'd be laughing my way through sex - - which might be a bigger turnoff than the farts.
126
Hey, I have a question: if my particular kink is monogamy and the idea of this person being with me exclusively is what really gets me off, then wouldn't a partner not willing to indulge this be a) sexually selfish if it's not harmful or difficult or b) just not suited to me it it is.
Anyone concerned about flirting and touching and kissing and whatnot could probably get a more positive response if they framed it that way I'd wager.
That said, if she's sorry then he should forgive her and work this out together.
Anyone concerned about flirting and touching and kissing and whatnot could probably get a more positive response if they framed it that way I'd wager.
That said, if she's sorry then he should forgive her and work this out together.
127
dude- if you date a guy, any guy and get to know him for long enough... you will never, ever be able to stop the farts.
128
i like dan's response to the first letter because the tone it was written in makes the guy sound like a scary control freak. anyone who has been in a relationship with someone like that will automatically take a defensive position when dealing with someone who sounds as confrontational as the man in that letter. i agree with dan completely. and even if the woman is a sloppy drunk she deserves to be talked about in a more respectful way. being in a relationship should mean presenting a united front to the rest of the world but based on that letter you can tell they are warring against each other which means that one party has to take the high road here and in this case that means the man has to forgive his wife's pre-martial kiss.
129
I think you should run the hell away. Clearly you have different expectations of your relationship than she does. I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt that you aren't a selfish prude or a control freak. But even if you are that is even more reason to leave. There are plenty of women in the world who would be happy with a man who believes in monogamy and wound not do these things.
I don't know if you and she ever discussed ground rules. When does flirting cross the line?
That would answer the question "Did she cheat?". If you haven't perhaps you should.
Only you can decide if you should stay or go.
If you decide to continue the relationship then yes, you must forgive (and forget) the kiss and the dancing. If you hold that over her head from now on, can you imagine how much harm that would do to your relationship.
I'm not saying that she is wrong here, just that you and her seem incompatible. There are many guys who would enjoy having their partner flirting. I'm saying that if her flirting disturbs him (apparently it does) perhaps he should find someone who is not so inclined to flirt.
I don't know if you and she ever discussed ground rules. When does flirting cross the line?
That would answer the question "Did she cheat?". If you haven't perhaps you should.
Only you can decide if you should stay or go.
If you decide to continue the relationship then yes, you must forgive (and forget) the kiss and the dancing. If you hold that over her head from now on, can you imagine how much harm that would do to your relationship.
I'm not saying that she is wrong here, just that you and her seem incompatible. There are many guys who would enjoy having their partner flirting. I'm saying that if her flirting disturbs him (apparently it does) perhaps he should find someone who is not so inclined to flirt.
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