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Curious Business

January 28, 2010

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I'm a single (mostly) gay guy who is curious about women. A hot bisexual mate is interested in a friends-with-benefits arrangement. However, his girlfriend doesn't know he's bisexual, and I'd feel uncomfortable having sex with him behind her back. My mate would like his girlfriend to know about him because he'd really like to have threesomes with her (something I'm up for), but he's worried about how she'll react. Personally, I'd be more concerned about how she might react if she found out about his sexuality some other way. That's one reason why I always err on the side of honesty. However, I'm not exactly unbiased: I'd prefer threesomes to dicks-only sessions. What should I do?

Horny Homo

How about a little honesty mixed with a little dishonesty?

Your mate should offer his girlfriend the boy-girl-boy threesome that all of today's modern young women fantasize about. (Blame Twilight—why can't Bella have it all?) If your mate is worried that she'll react negatively to the suggestion, he can open by telling her that what he's about to propose was all your idea. She'll want to know if his gay-but-bi-curious mate—that's you—is going to want to get into his presumed-to-be-straight pants. Your mate should shrug and say, "Maybe..." and depending on the look on her face when the possibility of Edward-on-Jacob action is raised—disgusted or intrigued?—end with either "...but I don't think I'm interested in going there" (leaving open the possibility of "getting carried away" and "going there" during the threesome) or "...and I might go there if that would turn you on" (making any boy-on-boy action at the threesome something he did for her).

If the threesome is a success and you two wind up playing with and in front of her, HH, your mate can come to the sudden and shocking realization that he's bisexual. This will hopefully lead to future threesomes and, perhaps, at some point, her blessing for some boys-only time. If she objects, HH, your mate can blame her for "making" him bisexual—or making him realize it—because he fell on your sword that first time because it was what she wanted.

I'm a woman whose "super-hetero" boyfriend is quite shy and needs to build trust before he can open up to someone. Since I have gained his trust, he has revealed that he fantasizes about m-m-f threesomes. I've asked him if he is turned on by the idea of another man's penis, and he says no, he just wants to see me have sex with another man. Yet when he describes his dirtiest fantasies to me at the peak of arousal, he says he gets off on the idea of double penetration—one penis in my anus, another in my vagina—and wants to feel the other man's penis bump up against his own, separated by my innards.

Do you think he is bisexual or bi-curious? We intend to enact this fantasy, and I wonder if it could shift the dynamic of our relationship.

Threesome Curious

It can be hard to predict whether a man will have an epiphany during an m-m-f threesome and come to the sudden and shocking realization that he's bisexual. (Um... does your boyfriend refer to his male friends as "mate," by any chance? Is he a fan of the Twilight series?) He's obviously more aroused by male-male contact than he's capable of admitting when he isn't about to blow a load, TC. This fantasy of his isn't about, or isn't just about, wanting to gangbang a girl with a buddy. Your boyfriend wants to bump penises with another dude—but with your, um, lady "innards" providing the "no homo" absolution.

But I don't think you need to extract a full confession of bi-curiousness or even heteroflexibility before you realize this fantasy. He may not be in denial about what his desires add up to, TC. He just may want to check his fantasies about male-male contact against the reality of male-male contact before he tells you what he suspects: He's the tiniest bit bisexual.

I have an uncle who calls me "faggot" whenever he and I are alone. He's a conservative, straight Mormon. I'm a boy who's had sexual encounters with guys and girls, and I'm trying to figure out my own sexuality while dealing with all of the other stuff that comes with going off to college, and frankly I don't need his crap. Do I tell my parents? He's half right, but what business is it of his?

Uncertain Nephew Craving Levelheaded Explanation

Your uncle is hitting on you, UNCLE, in his fashion—that is, the fashion of the tormented, self-hating, conservative/religious closet case. If you don't wanna find yourself standing there with his tongue stuffed in your mouth someday, I would advise you not to spend another moment alone with your asshole uncle. And, yes, tell your parents what he's been doing. Because, UNCLE, if he ever makes a pass at you and a scene ensues—you scream, you yell, you bite his tongue off and spit it out the window—your uncle is going to insist that you made the pass at him.

I'm a 31-year-old gay man. My boyfriend and I have been together for five years. We have enjoyed a few threesomes with other men, so I assumed I could share a particular fantasy of mine: I've never had sex with a woman and I want to.

I am not questioning my sexuality, I'm not "bi," I have zero desire to date women. But my boyfriend immediately accused me of having issues with my sexuality, and after a two-week fight I dropped it. Fast-forward to just before Christmas: I received a promotion, moved to a new floor, and have my own office now—and one of my new female coworkers has been coming on to me. First problem: She's married, so that would be crossing a line. Second, we're coworkers and she has even more to lose than I do.

Is there some other way—I already tried the direct approach—to bring this fantasy up to my boyfriend again, or should I just let it go?

Flirting With Danger

I'm shocked that your boyfriend—a man who's willing to share his boyfriend's ass with other men—would react so violently to your curiosity about lady innards. But seeing as the direct approach prompted a two-week-long fight, FWD, I can't imagine you would have much more success with the indirect approach. (I can't imagine what the indirect approach would be.)

Since you're not strictly monogamous and the boyfriend's not strictly rational about this, FWD, a case could be made for satisfying your lady-innards curiosity on the sly and filing the affair under "what he doesn't know won't hurt him." But I can't think of a worse set of lady innards to satisfy your curiosity with than this woman's. You could wind up losing your job and your boyfriend if the affair got ugly and got out.

Wait, FWD, wait. In time, some other gay-outards-curious lady will come along, and perhaps by then your boyfriend will have come around.

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Oldest First Unregistered On Registered On Add a comment
for God's sake stop calling my cunt "innards."
Posted by aimeeday1972 on January 26, 2010 at 7:29 PM · Report this
Awesome as always, Dan!
Posted by Meggleberry on January 26, 2010 at 7:32 PM · Report this
tupa 3
Excellent advice (as usual), might I suggest FWD consider a professional? She'll know exactly what he wants and why. Not to mention he'll not need to worry about any aftermath.
Posted by tupa on January 26, 2010 at 7:37 PM · Report this
good advice for FWD. The co-worker seems only destined for tragedy.
Posted by downyonder on January 26, 2010 at 7:39 PM · Report this
5 Comment Pulled (Spam) Comment Policy
attitude devant 6
"lady innards" and "gay outards"?? I'm trying to decide if these are fatally twee or just amusing....I'll go with amusing
Posted by attitude devant on January 26, 2010 at 8:19 PM · Report this
i don't really understand the answer to letter #1. lie about what you want, why you want it, and blame it on someone else (the gayer man) if it doesn't go well? i'm not being snarky; i really feel like i missed something here.
Posted by orlando on January 26, 2010 at 8:37 PM · Report this
@1 Actually TC called HER cunt innards, we don't know anything about your cunt.
Posted by bassplayerguy on January 26, 2010 at 10:18 PM · Report this
Urgutha Forka 9
Man... how different would the world be if people could just honestly TALK to each other about important things like sex and sexual fantasies?

But no, fucking puritanism still casts its backward shadow even today, among people who despise puritan/victorian "wholesomeness."

Please wake me if religion EVER loosens its iron grip on sex.

And yes, I know there was no mention of religion in any questions to Dan, but come on... where does this sexual trepidation come from if not from The Holy Word?

Posted by Urgutha Forka on January 26, 2010 at 10:31 PM · Report this
I don't care what folks above the age of consent do with each other, its a free country.

But what I worry about is a woman finding out she has aids from her supposed monogamous boyfriend. Strait folks get aids from slamming needles in their arms and deception.

Honesty ain't what it used to be and Dan is showing his bias this time.
Posted by Maven on January 26, 2010 at 10:41 PM · Report this
Puty 11
I'm sick and exhausted and the first question and answer far exceeds my current reading comprehension. Seems pretty goddamn funny though. Great work as always. "Lady innards", ha!
Posted by Puty on January 26, 2010 at 10:55 PM · Report this
Dan, I'm surprised you'd advise HH's "mate" to blame his girlfriend for his bisexual desires as punishment for her agreement to a m-m-f threesome that he wanted in the first place. You usually advocate *against* guilt tripping one's partner in favour of honesty. And just because the girlfriend (potentially) has reservations about her man hooking up with another man without her, does it really mean she deserves to be manipulated and lied to?
Posted by Amanda on January 27, 2010 at 12:37 AM · Report this
I think the first answer is shite. I think Mr Bi Man should just fess up and get it over with, with his g/f. If she freaks out, and this dude doesn't get to get it on with his "mate", that's how the cookie crumbles.

And WTF is it with people who get it on with each other - get into a relationship! - and don't even give a basic run-down of their sexual history. Actually, if I was the chick, I'd be severely tempted to dump his ass for lying by omission (and being queer, I certainly don't care about the same-sex screwing). I realise it's harder to come out for bi men, but with attitudes like these, no wonder many bi people grizzle about their "invisibility".
Posted by Trix on January 27, 2010 at 12:54 AM · Report this
I can usually appreciate the logic in not always laying 100% out there on the first try, but the answer to the first letter goes over the line in it's advised dishonesty and shitbaggery.

You have exactly zero information that she'll react badly to the idea of her boyfriend being bi, and yet you're advising him to pretend to "discover" bisexuality and then blame her for this if she doesn't like it! Frankly, if this girl has even half a brain on her she'll figure out she's being manipulated pretty quickly and DTMFA, and with good reason.

At the most the guy could pretend to not be 100% bi-identified and, when asked about m-m contact, say that he's not sure but admit he's curious. Quite frankly though I think that if the girl is up for a threesome she's pretty unlikely to be the type of person to freak out about her boyfriend being bi.
Posted by Lynx on January 27, 2010 at 1:19 AM · Report this
Did I miss something in the Mormon uncle letter? Is the uncle making some kind of a pass? It just sounded like homophobia to me.
Posted by anonperson on January 27, 2010 at 1:33 AM · Report this
what the hell is all this crap about being bisexual and that giving one the right to fuck aorund?? if you are in a monogamous relationship there is NO ROOM FOR FUCKING WITH OTHER PEOPLE, even if you are bisexual. JODER, it's tiring to read this shit over and over again.....
very good advice to the other letters, specially to UNCLE... he should def let the family knwo and avoid the creepy mormom.
Posted by bitch boy on January 27, 2010 at 2:11 AM · Report this
Dan, if someone wrote to you after doing exactly what you told HH to do, you'd probably be on his ass in .03 seconds calling him a manipulative little shit, if your previous columns indicate anything. What's different / acceptable about lying and fobbing off the blame in this particular situation?

12 and 14 say the rest for me.
Posted by Terry Nguyen on January 27, 2010 at 2:20 AM · Report this
Also, while I agree with Dan that UNCLE should tell his parents about the harassment, I wouldn't be as quick to jump to the conclusion that the guy's uncle wants to bang him. It could just as easily be a case of old-fashioned homophobia.
Posted by Amanda on January 27, 2010 at 2:26 AM · Report this
I usually agree with Dan, but today I found his suggest to HH manipulative and dishonest. I actually asked myself "what?! Is he serious?" while reading. HH's mate KNOWS he's bisexual already - at least, according to HH - so, you know, he could just find a girlfriend who's ok with that? Or give his current girlfriend the opportunity to be ok with it, plus the honesty she deserves. (No really Dan, were you serious? I don't get it.)

The answer to UNCLE, on the other hand, is spot-on. What a creep. UNCLE should never be in a room alone with that guy, and yeah, he should tell his parents ASAP.

Posted by harriet2 on January 27, 2010 at 4:09 AM · Report this
agh - "suggestion for", not "suggest to".
Posted by harriet2 on January 27, 2010 at 4:10 AM · Report this
Hey Dan the man - how are things in your life? The last time you went against your admirable code of honesty the way you did in the answers to questions 1 & 2, you were having a rough time in the "real world." Love you. Be well.
Posted by knitpicker on January 27, 2010 at 5:43 AM · Report this
I found the penis bumping part of DP to be a huge turn off (and I'm bi so it isn't a homophobic thing). Honestly, it's going to take a lot of time, if ever, for Mr. Shy Guy to admit being curious and/or do something about it. If she really wants to push him, she's going to have to set up the three way.

Also, #1, that was a great way to start off the comments.
Posted by BigDaddyBuddha on January 27, 2010 at 5:47 AM · Report this
I always thought Dan Savage was a proponent of sexual honesty. I guess I was wrong since he's sanctioning lying to girlfriend about what is going on and then blaming her for the boyfriend becoming what he already is. That is really quite despicable. Does the bi-boyfriend practice safe same-sex sex? Even if he isn't promiscuous, he still is, by definition, a CPOS.
I think she may react more strongly to his being a CPOS than his being bi.
Posted by a skeptic and a cynic on January 27, 2010 at 5:49 AM · Report this
Did Dan really write the response to HH? It seems so out of character.
Posted by a skeptic and a cynic on January 27, 2010 at 5:50 AM · Report this
Whilst I'm not keen on people lying there are some fairly good reasons why bi men would do so due to the stereotype that bi men are promiscuous gay loving unreliable kinky sods.

A sizeable proportion of women are immature, ignorant and uncaring saddled with ingrained societal expectations and gender roles. The net effect of this is, if you're a bi man and prefer women your selection of partners is limited. It may be a bit easier if you're poly and/or kinky.

I'm sure many would say that hiding your sexuality and not being able to be truly accepted is wrong (and you'd be correct) - but it's not helping you get laid in the meantime.

Supposedly intelligent and mature women will turn you down flat even though they'll admit there is no rational reason to do so. In the height of hypocrisy, even some bi women will do the same thing.

It's yet another case of I'm Alright Jack. Why bother dating a bi man when there are other 'straight' men? Why be honest about your sexuality when other idiots can blaze the trail for acceptance and suffer the problems?

In my specific case, there are other factors that cut down the dating pool I'm prepared to approach, but bisexuality is yet another factor that may be considered out of all proportion to its actual material impact on a relationship.
Posted by UKGuy on January 27, 2010 at 6:25 AM · Report this
Worst advice ever to HH. Unbelievble.
Posted by gonzo on January 27, 2010 at 6:29 AM · Report this
@15 &@18

The telling thing is that the Mormon uncle only does this when they are alone. If the guy feels his homophobia strongly enough to call his questioning nephew "faggot" and it's not a prelude for something more intimate, he'd be bigoted enough to see nothing wrong with addressing his nephew thus when not in private.

Since he only calls his nephew "faggot" when they're alone together, it's a creepy power game no matter what else.
Posted by tal on January 27, 2010 at 6:29 AM · Report this
What Tal@27 said.

And while Dan's plan for HH would probably work, it does seem out of character for the strongest proponent of open honesty in the advice world.
Posted by KathleenD on January 27, 2010 at 6:45 AM · Report this
Just a question for the females out there, wondering what the general opinion is of the DP situation described by Threesome Curious. Is this something that women commonly want? Is you've done it, is it intensely pleasurable? Weird? Hot? Painful? Depraved, like something that you'd only do if intixocated and then regret the next day? How much does the implicit "these guys are being gay with each other, however tacitly" dynamic come into play? Obviously, there's going to be a range of sexual attitudes amongst the readers, I'm just curious what a non-scientific, quick survey would reveal.
Posted by thunda71 on January 27, 2010 at 7:12 AM · Report this
While the first paragraph written to HH is fine, the second is terrible. If the threesome is a bust, you're going to leave this girl thinking that she's turned her boyfriend bi by taking part in a mmf threesome with him. we all know that's not how bi guys are created. why would you want to perpetuate such disinformation.
Posted by Jeff908475 on January 27, 2010 at 7:15 AM · Report this
Regarding the M-M-F DP threesome that Threesome Curious describes, I'm wondering what the females in the audience think about it. Is this something repellant to you? Hot? Something you think is depraved, that you'd only do if really intoxicated and then likely regret the day after? If you've done it, is it intensely pleasurable? Weird? Painful? Awkward? How much does the whole implicit "these guys are being gay with each other, however tacitly" thing come into play? I understand that there are a lot of different sexual attitudes and experiences out there, just curoius about what a general, unscientific survey might reveal.
Posted by thunda71 on January 27, 2010 at 7:18 AM · Report this
@29: It's my top fantasy. Bar *none.* The implicit gayness is a huge turn-on. Frankly, sometimes I think I'm a gay man trapped in a woman's body.
Posted by Gloria on January 27, 2010 at 7:26 AM · Report this
Why is it that every time a person writes in with a kink they want to indulge, but which their partner is uncomfortable with, Dan advises cheating? It seems to me that there are two competing goods here, a person’s desire to stay faithful and a person’s desire to indulge the kink. But it is like Dan is totally blind to the goods and benefits associated with being faithful and chooses to focus solely on sexual satisfaction at the expense of a person’s integrity. I have nothing against indulging a kink but if your partner isn’t game you don’t get to just ignore that person’s desires and boundaries by cheating. Having respect for another person means being honest and if that is making achieving your more fundamental desires impossible then having respect for another person means breaking up with them. A person who purports to give advise about love but can’t see the value of respect and integrity is a terrible source for advice!
Posted by NN on January 27, 2010 at 7:33 AM · Report this
Why is it that every time a person writes in with a kink they want to indulge, but which their partner is uncomfortable with, Dan advises cheating? It seems to me that there are two competing goods here, a person’s desire to stay faithful and a person’s desire to indulge the kink. But it is like Dan is totally blind to the goods and benefits associated with being faithful and chooses to focus solely on sexual satisfaction at the expense of a person’s integrity. I have nothing against indulging a kink but if your partner isn’t game you don’t get to just ignore that person’s desires and boundaries by cheating. Having respect for another person means being honest and if that is making achieving your more fundamental desires impossible then having respect for another person means breaking up with them. A person who purports to give advise about love but can’t see the value of respect and integrity is a terrible source for advice!
Posted by NN on January 27, 2010 at 7:35 AM · Report this
Mike in MO 35
Yes, HH's mate should come out to his gf, but I'd give it 80% chance she'll freak. Unfortunately there is a 99% chance she'll freak if she finds out after the fact, assuming she falls for that cockamame plan.

regarding TC: based on all the DP porn I've seen, shy-guy needs to worry more about balls touching. There's not much room between the pussy & the asshole, & when they start banging it is inevitable their balls will collide. That's what makes it hot for me :)
Posted by Mike in MO on January 27, 2010 at 7:57 AM · Report this
To each their own, but I'd rather just be one on one with only another person. Just too much potential drama and this that and the other thing. Someone always winds up getting less attention and it becomes a whole thing.. A tasty thing in theory; in reality maybe too much of a good thing.. If all are for it, then so be it. Sure. ;-D
Posted by inohoour on January 27, 2010 at 8:34 AM · Report this
For anyone curious about M-M-F threeways but not interested in actually doing the deed, I recommend the film "The Devil in Miss Jones" starring Georgina Spelvin. The film has an eerie but compelling atmosphere and an ending straight out of Sartre. The lead actress is prolific, flexible and insatiable in her sexual appetite. The threeway scene is entertaining and some may even find it arousing once you get past the "Can you feel him feeling you feeling me feeling him feeling me feeling you feeling him?" dialogue. At least it will give you an idea of the mechanics in store if you decide to go for it.
Posted by The Happily Married Gay Guy on January 27, 2010 at 8:34 AM · Report this
i can see why women won't bother dating #25, given that he thinks a "sizeable portion" of them are immature and "saddled with ingrained social expectations". I'm sick to death of hearing whiny men go on about how terrible "most"women are in th same breath as how they'd otherwise like to date women. with a misogynist attitude like that, its a shocker that mature, intelligent and un-societially saddled women ( you know, the minority) aren't lining up.

also i always wondered about the balls thing, #35
Posted by sallybobally on January 27, 2010 at 8:45 AM · Report this
The advice to HH is hilarious. I can't help imagining the parts of the bi males played by Lucy and Ethel, and the clueless girlfriend by Ricky. In the end, someone's gonna have to esplain the whole harebrained scheme.
Posted by jmbdy on January 27, 2010 at 8:48 AM · Report this
Just read the first letter, and can't see why it's nice, decent, ennobling, humane, or even just okay to manipulate the gf this way. Why not just out with it, honestly? And if she's not into it, then make the call - take her (heh heh) the way she is, or find someone who's into what you're into.

This is the same prob I have with Mr. S. on the sex-witholding spouse/partner. Why is that a "mandate to cheat"? Why isn't it a mandate to either fix the situation or leave?

If sex is for grownups, why does this column so often advocate acting like middle-schoolers?

Own it, folks. Stop the manipulation and tricks.
Posted by Belleweather on January 27, 2010 at 8:52 AM · Report this
@thunda71 well, personally I like the idea, at least in theory. I've never tried it but if I were to I'd MUCH prefer it if both men were openly bi. I think m-m action is pretty hot and in the context of a threesome I also like the idea that the experience is shared by everyone, without me having to be the exclusive orifice/pleasure provider.

However asking that here would probably be like asking about the missionary position in the AFA forums; you're likely to get a pretty skewed sample.
Posted by Lynx on January 27, 2010 at 8:52 AM · Report this
sunjoy 42
This is one of the hottest columns I've read in a while... Well, except for the letter about the uncle, that's just creepy. But otherwise... Thanks Dan!!
Posted by sunjoy on January 27, 2010 at 9:08 AM · Report this
These pieces of advice are kind of...what's the

1 & 2 - there's something slightly offensive about this idea that getting in a MMW threesome will cause a revelation that someone is bi. Sexual orientation is more complicated than that (of course) and people don't just 'wake up' to bisexuality just like they don't 'wake up' to homosexuality. Doing it might even drive a bisexual man further into the closet.

3- this assumption that any person who gay-bashes another is a 'fag in waiting' is silly. I don't know what personal experiences paint this, whether real or fantasy, but most often, just like your parents were wrong when they said "people who bully you are intiminated by you" those people who call you 'faggot' do NOT want to sleep with you.

Thinking in a sinister manner, it's quite evil and sadistic of the uncle. I could do much more psychologcial damage to a person tormenting them in private than lambasting them in public. That's not self-hate, that's just devious...

4 - Uhm, no. Whereas I would be all about a threesome with two guys, no one this side of reality would ever convince me to do a 3some involving a woman. No. Sorry. No. No offense to women; love plenty of them. However, I am not sexually stimulated by a woman, and frankly being in a sexual situation with a woman would kill any erection I had.

Sorry, I've been in a room with an actual childbirth. Any sexual feelings I might have had for the fairer sex died as that little purple thing pushed its way out of the vagina. *shudders*
Posted by HyperKind74 on January 27, 2010 at 9:15 AM · Report this
singing cynic 44
Surprised about your answer to #1, Dan! The girlfriend hasn't displayed any evidence of being sex-negative... why does she deserve to be lied to and guilt tripped?
Posted by singing cynic on January 27, 2010 at 9:17 AM · Report this
If you can't even be honest with your partner about important things like your sexuality, what point is there in continuing the relationship? I expect better from you, Dan.

And as far as the uncle goes, I've had an aunt be a bitch to me for years, publicly and in private. She doesn't want to get on me (which is a relief, as she's really fat), she's just a bitch. It's quite possible that the uncle is just an asshole. I'd still advocate telling the parents, because that's unacceptable behavior, but now the kid's going to be even more creeped out and probably jumping at shadows.
Posted by Adrasteia on January 27, 2010 at 9:43 AM · Report this
re: thunda71, MMF situations (including but not limited to DP) are all I've thought about lately whilst masturbating, never tried but it sounds so damn hot! No matter how tentatively, if the guys were ok with exploring each other physically (aside from the obvious ball-slapping), it would make it even hotter!!! But honestly I think the configuration that comes to mind most often involves me wearing a strap-on and one of the guys getting the DP. How I wish I weren't at work right now, Dan's column has gotten me all distracted.
Posted by discodolly on January 27, 2010 at 10:11 AM · Report this
@ 38 : Sally

I didn't say 'most' - I said 'a sizeable proportion'. A not entirely scientific poll I saw recently put the numbers of women rejecting bi men at 40% (obviously, that's before other criteria for rejecting them than bisexuality are examined).

Try dating where you're continually rejected for a reason that has no logical basis and not come off as 'whiny'. I don't hate women : I merely hate ignorance and immaturity.

Once all the arguments have been rebutted and no counter argument found, all that is left is irrationality.

Offer a better response than them, that doesn't boil down to a refusal to examine their own prejudices and social upbringing. Arguments that they couldn't go to bed with a man who has been with another man speak more about their own hangups than the man in question..

As daters, sexual partners and basically as a human being, every adult has the responsibility to examine their own prejudices and work on them. A blanket refusal to examine this is immature and detrimental to society.

I have no problems being rejected for looks, attitudes, income or logical dating requirements. Where it crosses the line is when someone (anyone) rejects another for a reason that has no impact on the potential relationship.

Male bisexuality is only one of these reasons, but is obviously the relevant one in this instance of Savage Love.
Posted by UKGuy on January 27, 2010 at 10:15 AM · Report this
@29 - I've done it, and it's *very* hot. What I had was a DP with both guys in the vagina. Yeah, yeah, it was quite a "stretch", but by that time I was so worked up, everything was very slippery, and with some effort, we got 'em both in. It wasn't painful, but it was uncomfortable and shocking in the holy-crap-I'm going-to-split-open sense. The excitement overcame the initial discomfort - not just the excitement of having two men inside me, but knowing that their cocks were sliding against each other. They both seemed to find it intensely arousing as well, as neither of them lasted long and both of them usually do, solo. The really sweet part, the part that makes the memory so nice, is that I found out afterward that as the climax built, the two of them had reached their arms around me and were holding on to each other. Awww. One of them was bi and the other was bi-curious. So yeah, not just having the attention and penetration of two men at once, but their shared intimacy was also a big part of the enjoyment for me. Being a conduit for them to have sexual contact that they would not have experienced by themselves (the two of them together, without me) made me feel really good.
I've only tried anal-vaginal DP with a cock and a dildo, and it was nice, too, but for me, it seems best if one of the two penetrating objects is significantly smaller than the other.
Posted by cropduster on January 27, 2010 at 10:27 AM · Report this
For years I have been telling my wife that I would like a F-F-M threesome, which is of course the biggest straight male fantasy, and she has always said that maybe, someday, if she could find the right girl, then okay. For years, I have waited patiently, reminding her once and a while how hot it would be to see her with another woman and so on. Last year, she came to me with a scenario of a M-M-F threesome, and how hot she thought it would be, giving me all the same reasons that I gave her for a F-F-M threesome. After much discussion, I told her that I didn't think it would be such a great idea, mainly because if I could endure being with another man and have it enjoyable, then I wouldn't need her there. After all, in a homosexual marriage, there is no woman there to say "No" to sex all the time, so it should pretty much be a free-for-all, all the time.

After all, isn't a threesome where all three people interact sexually? Otherwise it is just two people pleasuring a third, regardless of whether they are male or female, sort of like a small gangbang. HH seems like a threesome, TC seems like a gangbang.
Posted by Waiting on January 27, 2010 at 10:37 AM · Report this
@1- Did you take a journalism class with me at SCCC in 1989? If that's you I'd like to reconnect with you
Posted by fif on January 27, 2010 at 10:37 AM · Report this
@ 49- You missed a great opportunity to cut a deal with your wife: she can have her two men, you can have your two women.

Your "logic" behind all this tells me you're a not-so-smart, selfish guy
Posted by fif on January 27, 2010 at 10:50 AM · Report this
The first was a little too manipulative and dishonest, lots of drama actually and kind of not fair.
Posted by some name on January 27, 2010 at 11:22 AM · Report this
HA...innards!!! thats the best name for it!

sound advice to all involved,i think. :)
Posted by stargirl.23 on January 27, 2010 at 11:25 AM · Report this
@49 I'm going to be generous and assume that being confronted with the idea of getting sexual with another man made you realize why your wife didn't want to be sexual with another woman.

I hope that's what you mean, because if you're really saying that there is something objectively different about a MMF than a FFM you are engaging in some pretty creative wishful thinking and rationalization.
Posted by Lynx on January 27, 2010 at 11:44 AM · Report this
@54, well said. I think you are on to something there, whether the OP realizes it or not.
Posted by discodolly on January 27, 2010 at 12:15 PM · Report this
Wow, what do I say?

UNCLE...tell your parents. Make a point of avoiding your uncle at all costs. I do not know if he would sexually assault you but I don't care. If he is invited for dinner by your parents, find somewhere else to go. If granny asks you for dinner ask if uncle is going to be there and decline if he is. If you are invited to an occasion and you ask if uncle is going to be there and get told no but find he has ...make a point of leaving because of him and tell people why if they ask. Son you have your own issues to work out and he isn't helping. Look to your own health. Hopefully you have friends/ family/ counselors that you can talk to. Life is tough enough at your age. Issues abound. Be well.
Posted by madrigal1963 on January 27, 2010 at 12:22 PM · Report this
I'm really surprised by Dan's advice to HH as well. He's taken a totally GGG girl (at least she has been so far) and running the risk of making her self-doubting and paranoid - and possibly even LESS GGG in the future. Why? I don't get it.

The decision to cheat, lie, and manipulate her would only cause her to be more inhibited, no?

Was that answer a joke? I'm dying to know.
Posted by Rach on January 27, 2010 at 12:24 PM · Report this
rock bottom 58
love your column, dan, but i gotta say i'm disappointed with the advice today. but i'll stick with the mormon uncle....
this guy is just a homophobic asshole. most assholes who call guys faggot are not about to jump your bones, even if he is a latent homosexual; i don't think there's much chance of asshole uncle forcing himself on UNCLE. so how does UNCLE deal with it? if he's comfortable enough doing so, he tells his parents the he doesn't want to spend time with the asshole uncle because of the comments. if not, he could make snide comments to the uncle about his (the uncle's) latent homosexuality, just to piss him off. latent homosexuals HATE the suggestion they might be gay. :)
Posted by rock bottom on January 27, 2010 at 12:37 PM · Report this
First some disclaimers.....I am a Canadian and a Pagan... I am gay...marriage/relationships are not for is for fun, pleasure and comfort... marriage is not for life....honesty is best (most of the time).

That being said, if bf can't tell gf he is bi he has a problem. One quick question first, HH, does mate's gf know you are bi/gay? If not 'come out' to them some weekend. Bf can act surprised at the revelation. If gf doesn't cause major scene try this. Make arrangements to meet them at their place on a Friday or Saturday night. Have too or three drinks not enough to be accused of being loaded. In a 'shy' and 'seemingly uncomfortable' fashion tell them that you think they are a hot couple and you would like to have a threesome with them. If it works, great if it doesn't there is some embarrassment but no one has to be made to feel guilty. And girlfriend may not want to participate but may want to see two guys 'do it'.

I was approached by a friend who's wife wanted to watch him get a blowjob. He was straight and complied to please her. He got off in a big way because she was so turned on. But we have done nothing since.
Posted by madrigal1963 on January 27, 2010 at 12:47 PM · Report this
DonBito 60
@everyone - sorry, I thought in the first letter, Dan was dispensing advice to HH on how to achieve his dream threesome, not to the BF on how to come out to his GF.

So given the actual question, extenuating circumstances aside, I'd say the advice was pretty spot-on.
Posted by DonBito on January 27, 2010 at 1:24 PM · Report this
Oh Suzanna 61
To everyone who thinks Dan is out of line suggesting UNCLE's uncle is coming on to him:

(That means you, 15, 18, 43, 45, 58)

@27 is right on. Calling UNCLE a faggot in any situation is creepy and yucky, but the fact that he only does it when they are alone together is what makes it likely to be a come on. Dan and @27 are exactly right.
Posted by Oh Suzanna on January 27, 2010 at 1:27 PM · Report this
@47 My god are you a case. “I have no problems being rejected for looks, attitudes, income or logical dating requirements.” When was sexual desire ever considered rational in the first place? If someone doesn’t want to date you because you’ve dated other men, so what? Why should that be considered “irrational”? It’s just their preference. You remind me of guys I used to date in college who just wanted to get laid and any reason why you didn’t want to was considered “irrational.”

“As daters, sexual partners and basically as a human being, every adult has the responsibility to examine their own prejudices and work on them. A blanket refusal to examine this is immature and detrimental to society.”

This just comes across as the height of arrogance to me. I think you can’t find women to date because you sound like a total jerk. You obviously do have a problem with being rejected — for any reason. You’re basically saying a woman that doesn’t want to date you and won’t examine why is “detrimental to society.” What rubbish.

Dating means being rejected by people you’re interested in. Almost constantly (at least for me). I got tired of it, so I stopped going out. At least I didn’t berate other people for having “irrational” reasons for not wanting to go out with me the way you do.
Posted by Robin222 on January 27, 2010 at 1:27 PM · Report this
@29/31, I didn't try DP, but I conducted an experiment, and the answer is yes it is probably very painful! With an average sized dildo up my ass there was no way a penis could comfortably get into my vagina. There is only so much room in your pelvis. An average penis and a VERY SMALL dildo, maybe. Or two penises on the small side. Think really small, not normal penises considered small by their paranoid owners. As for double vaginal penetration, stretching your vagina beyond imaginable limits is only hot while you're fantasizing about it, the moment it becomes physically uncomfortable, it stops feeling as good as regular sex that our organs have been made for. Never underestimate evolution.
Posted by average dick fan on January 27, 2010 at 1:29 PM · Report this
@29. To me, DP is totally hot in theory, though in reality it has been far to ointense for me to deal with for more than maytbe 30 seconds at a go. Hopefully practice will make perfect?
Posted by Atumornamedmarla on January 27, 2010 at 1:32 PM · Report this
Oh Suzanna 65
@25: you say
"there are some fairly good reasons why bi men would [lie] due to the stereotype that bi men are promiscuous gay loving unreliable kinky sods."

HH's mate shows a clear preference for an affair with HH behind his girlfriend's back over telling her he's bi. Let's review... he intends to:
- have gay sex
- sleep around without her knowledge or permission
- lie about it
==> he's a promiscuous gay loving unreliable kinky sod

The way you set it up, your argument for lying about being bi is only valid if done to protect against the misapplication of this stereotype. Unfortunately for the mate, this stereotype clearly applies!
Posted by Oh Suzanna on January 27, 2010 at 1:39 PM · Report this
Do the co-worker, dude!!!
Posted by doher on January 27, 2010 at 2:08 PM · Report this
i wanna know how to get MY boyfriend so interested in m-m-f threeways!!
Posted by Kitteh Kat on January 27, 2010 at 2:57 PM · Report this
A m-m-f threesome is my second biggest fantasy (right after some hot WS action). I want to be penetrated by both at the same time, want them to interact with each other - kiss, blow each other, fuck each other. Everything.

I don't see it ever happening with hubby, though, and I'm not interested in cheating so it will remain a fantasy.
Posted by kinkymiddleagedwoman on January 27, 2010 at 3:38 PM · Report this
@68, I'm right there with you, not holding my breath for it, since I know my husband quite well.

Although, re: WS, that can so easily become reality and many more people are into than would readily admit. Go ahead and ask for it if you haven't already, it will really take things up a notch!
Posted by discodolly on January 27, 2010 at 4:02 PM · Report this
@69 I'm glad I'm not alone!

Alas, I've asked my husband about WS and he says it's not something that he's interested in. I'm still hoping, though, because that's what he said about me rimming him and penetrating him and he's changed his mind about that.
Posted by kinkymiddleagedwoman on January 27, 2010 at 4:15 PM · Report this
Great column as always, Dan.

I'm a little with @1 though about innards. Ig.
Posted by wileEcoyote on January 27, 2010 at 4:15 PM · Report this
# 47. I personally wouldn't touch a Bi guy with a 10 foot pole because of ONE THING: DISEASE. The homo community is CRAWLING with venereal disease, and HIV/AIDS is the LEAST of them: Hep A-B-C, antibiotic-resistant gonorrhea, genital warts of every conceivable viral affiliation, syphilis, MRSA, herpes...the list goes ON. And it is a KNOWN fact that men are CARELESS about "protection" in general, and less well known that condom use has DECLINED in the gay community.

I have a friend who works in the Federal gov't, in the "Pandemic Disease Control" department; he informed me that Health Canada does not release the REAL stats on homo disease lest they rouse the wrath of the gay community en masse.
Apparently it's OK for them to go around playing "plague fags", but NOT politically correct" to give people (spelled "w-o-m-e-n) the TRUTH about the situation, and let them decide for themselves! Many of these diseases are "no big deal" for MEN, but they spell BIG TROUBLE for WOMEN. But since women are considered third class citizens, no matter how anyone slices it, apparently it's apparently OK to let them remain ignorant of the FACTS of the tremendous health risks they are facing by having ANY sexual contact what-so-ever with men who are Bi, 'experimenting" or "curious".
Posted by Maihesa on January 27, 2010 at 4:46 PM · Report this
@72, what you talking about? How is saying "this or that percentage of gay men is infected with this or that disease" giving truth to a particular woman deciding whether to date or not a bi guy? That doesn't tell her whether that guy has a disease or not! Just like saying "this or that percentage of straight men are infected with this or that disease" doesn't help us either - we should still have to go get tested together if we don't want to get "Hep A-B-C, antibiotic-resistant gonorrhea, genital warts of every conceivable viral affiliation, syphilis, MRSA, herpes" and so on.
Posted by making responsible choices is not hard on January 27, 2010 at 5:15 PM · Report this
DonBito 74

Speaking of making women into 3rd class citizens, why is it that you didn't you drag up any statistics about rampant STDs among lesbians?

And as an apparent medical authority, you know "venereal disease" isn't actually the name of an STD, right?
Posted by DonBito on January 27, 2010 at 5:18 PM · Report this
I have to agree with some of the ladies here. Not that I prefer "cunt" but I'm not a pumpkin either...I don't have "innards". We all know you're not a big women fan, but do you have to describe us in such utterly repulsive terms?
Posted by imnotinnards on January 27, 2010 at 5:32 PM · Report this
my bad...i just realized that woman called her own self "innards". I'm thinking maybe a "man who wants to feel another man's penis up against his, separated only by some, uh....innards" is probably not the straightest. At all.
Posted by imnotinnards on January 27, 2010 at 5:35 PM · Report this
You wrote: "Where it crosses the line is when someone (anyone) rejects another for a reason that has no impact on the potential relationship."

Ah, but she doesn't know that. Look how many men have married women and years later said, "sorry honey I've been a closeted gay all this time, I'm tired of living a lie, and I need to divorce you to be the real me." Given that some women have been lied to and used by gay men who were using them as a cover so they could pretend to be straight, it's perfectly understandable why straight women would want to date men they understand to be straight. Now if it were a more casual thing, then it's no big deal...but if you're looking for something serious why take such a big risk that the whole relationship could be one big, fat lie?
Posted by Diagoras on January 27, 2010 at 5:36 PM · Report this
@72 Do you also have a boyfriend in Europe that you met over the summer and we wouldn't know him, but he's really hot and rich?
Posted by Frank Rizzo on January 27, 2010 at 5:40 PM · Report this
@62 Robin. Thanks for putting inaccurate words in my mouth..

Of course I don't like being rejected - no one does. Not that it matters though - move on, find someone else - or keep them as a friend.

Do I think everyone - not just women - has a duty to examine their prejudices? Hell yes! I'm not pretending to be lily white either - I've looked at my own prejudices and found some of them to be bullshit, some to be basically logical and a few still needing some work.

This isn't rocket science - when forming a serious relationship each person will probably have to decide what their core requirements are anyway.

'It's just their preference' is a line frequently trotted out by many people who don't want to think. I have more respect for people I can at least agree to disagree with.
Posted by UKGuy on January 27, 2010 at 6:47 PM · Report this
@77 I get your point, but it doesn't stand up to close scrutiny.

This hypothetical gay guy isn't pretending to be straight - he's pretending to be bi. This isn't a good idea (as proven extremely well by this thread) as it gives you shit from both the straight and gay communities.

There's so many other reasons a marriage can fail that I'm really not sure the potential that your partner is gay should be right up there on your list.

If you believe the statistics then choosing a bi man as a partner has a higher chance of issues that might not affect a straight man. The problem is that this is myopic thinking - people are not statistics and whilst stereotypes can be a useful guide in some cases, people should be assessed on an individual basis.

To be more precise, such viewpointscan be actively dangerous - first substitute 'bi' for someone that lives in a town where the stereotype is of them being thieves, or for a person of colour where the statistics show they're more likely to commit violent crime. Still sound acceptable?

Now cover dangerous assumptions such as that bi men are 'unsafe' in bed and straight men are 'safe' and marry it to a general lack of knowledge and stupidity about STIs (other than possibly on Savage Love, I have yet to read any such discussion where the majority weren't ill informed and worse - unwilling to learn). Generally unsafe behaviour ensues.

All of the above is a long winded way of arriving at my main point : you reap what you sow. A sizeable proportion (no, not all, not even the majority) of straight women refuse to consider bi men who want to be faithful. Bi men don't want to restrict their dating choices so they lie about their sexuality. End result : letters from HH and misery on all sides.

If we could all be a bit more honest, this wouldn't be a problem. Doesn't look likely to happen soon, does it?
Posted by UKGuy on January 27, 2010 at 7:18 PM · Report this
UKGuy (80),

He might not be pretending to be bi. He might say he's bi because he's confused about his sexuality. Why would I want someone who is confused? Now I agree that people should be judged as individuals, not statistics which is why if I were considering dating a bi man I would want to know his dating history, his connection to gay or bi groups, how "out" he was about it, how sure he was about it, etc in order to figure out if it's even worth the bother. It's not about statistics, it's about avoiding drama.

>A sizeable proportion (no, not all, not even the majority) of straight women refuse to consider bi men who want to be faithful. Bi men don't want to restrict their dating choices so they lie about their sexuality. End result : letters from HH and misery on all sides.

In other words, bi men lie and women get blamed. Sorry, I'm not buying it. If you lie, you alone are responsible for your actions. Women have the right to decide for themselves whether to date a man who is bi. If a woman declines because a man is bi, that is her right. It's her decision and nobody has the right to take that away from her. One caveat, though...

If we're talking about casual dating, or a first date that's a bit different because nobody reveals everything about themselves all at once. But once there is a possibility of it getting serious, there's no excuse for not revealing something like that.
Posted by Diagoras on January 27, 2010 at 7:42 PM · Report this
TVDinner 82
To all those who think Dan's advice is somehow "off": he has confessed to writing the occasional column while high. Just sayin'.
Posted by TVDinner http:// on January 27, 2010 at 7:45 PM · Report this
HellboundAlleee 83
Mormon uncle is gay. Lately, I've seen too much conservative christian self-hatred to deny it any more. The whole goddamned fundy world is gay to me right now. And sissies. I mean, look at . Read any of the anti-gay articles and you tell me--stealth gay satirist ? Or is it that the fundies are not only ALL gay but extremely kinky, and this kind of religious extremism is a really sick way of making an orientation into a sick fetish.
Posted by HellboundAlleee on January 27, 2010 at 7:50 PM · Report this

@68- Just wondering what WS stands for.. Water Sports?

@32- Know how you feel. I'm a straight part-time cross dresser who often feels he's a lesbian trapped in a man's body.

And speaking of… it is my absolutely-non-scientific observation that despite the prevailing stigma most male cross dressers are actually straight.
So...Are there any women out there, of any orientation, who may incorporate this with their partner(s) out of real interest and not just for the sake of being GGG?
Posted by fif on January 27, 2010 at 8:09 PM · Report this
HellboundAlleee 85
...or I could just be stupid and fooled by a satiric website. ...

Posted by HellboundAlleee on January 27, 2010 at 8:10 PM · Report this
It's been my experience, as a bisexual woman with gay and bi male fiends, that men tend to be more freaked out by the thought of their mate sleeping with (or even being attracted to) a woman than with a man. I think it comes down to men assuming that they are manlier than any other guy could be, and therefor there's not really any competition, but a woman is something they can't compare with. The whole "What if he/she realizes he/she likes pussy more than he/she likes cock? Then where am I?" fear. I've known guys (gay and straight) who outright refused to ever get involved with a bisexual at all because of the belief that they might one day decide they want a woman and just leave. These are usually guys so arrogant and hung that they don't consider men to be any threat at all, but being hung and macho and all that doesn't help much if you're trying to compete with a woman. Just a thought.
Posted by charlie on January 27, 2010 at 8:46 PM · Report this
@ 84

Here! I'm bisexual and think that incorporating cross-dressing would be hot.
I'm taken though. And my boyfriend likes his "manly" track pants and hoodies over girl clothes. Le sigh. We have a nice BDSM thing going on though so my inner kink is happy.

And as for, he should tell his parents regardless. Even if this guy isnt a latent homo, and even if UNCLE wasn't fooling around with guys and girls, it doesnt matter. Spewing hate speech is wrong, and as an aunt I'm disgusted that he'd say such things to his own nephew.
Posted by auntielexie on January 27, 2010 at 8:50 PM · Report this
...Maybe the idea of his uncle trying to make a move on him will motivate UNCLE to feel brave and tell his parents.
Posted by auntielexie on January 27, 2010 at 8:52 PM · Report this
@86 I am a woman with a bisexual man and that is my fear exactly. My boyfriend thinks I shouldn't be afraid of a man because it's like comparing apples and oranges, but I still feel like it's something I can't compete with. I'm not as intimidated by women because like you say I feel there's something he likes about me more than other women. I know it's irrational and I have to get over it. We're trying to work out a way for him to have things with guys and me not feel horrible.
Posted by mmhmm on January 27, 2010 at 9:52 PM · Report this
hee heee- 'nards and 'tards
Posted by budds pal on January 27, 2010 at 10:06 PM · Report this
@ 87
I'm delighted and encouraged to know that there are some women out there who find cross dressing hot. I understand you're taken and wish you the best in your current relationship. But if that changes for some reason, and I'm not suggesting you should end it because of me, then please be sure to contact me and I promise you an extremely hot lingerie modeling show.

Good night!
Posted by fif on January 27, 2010 at 10:07 PM · Report this
"I personally wouldn't touch a Bi guy with a 10 foot pole because of ONE THING: DISEASE. The homo community is CRAWLING with venereal disease, and HIV/AIDS is the LEAST of them: Hep A-B-C, antibiotic-resistant gonorrhea, genital warts of every conceivable viral affiliation, syphilis, MRSA, herpes...the list goes ON. And it is a KNOWN fact that men are CARELESS about "protection" in general, and less well known that condom use has DECLINED in the gay community."

Last local newspaper article I read about this went on to point out that recent surveys of STRAIGHT people pointed to an alarming reduction in safe-sex practices over recent years, and an increased willingness for the paid-for variety to have a no-barrier option (for a few extra bucks).

Sex tourism relies on the straights for a big portion of its trade, and it's notorious for coming with unwelcome extras. The military guys I know often pay for a little local recreation while on deployment, and have had to make a few discreet visits to their pharmacist as a result.

Next time you touch one of your "not-bi" types, keep in mind they're pretty darned risky too. Which is why safe sex, regular check-ups, and couple testing before going no-barriers are all good ideas, and blind bigotry and assuming your 'straight' types are somehow not potentially disease-ridden scumbags is just dumb.
Posted by Rophuine on January 27, 2010 at 10:07 PM · Report this
starsandgarters 93
Blame Twilight for modern women for m/f/m preferences? Jesus, how about a little credit for media fans who have been fantasizing about two men (in any combination, or solo) for the last forty years? Did you not read your own paper's article on Kirk/Spock? Do you need someone to explain to you what slash is? Stephanie Meyer is like the toddler brought to the college reunion.

I'm disappointed you seem to know so little about sexual-interest trends in American culture considering your occupation. (Or maybe it's your anti-anything-involving-girls bias.)
Posted by starsandgarters on January 27, 2010 at 10:35 PM · Report this
Hmm, lots of comments. Great column this week!

Anyone else think that HH kept calling the other guy his 'mate' because he's from England or Australia, perhaps?
Posted by alicenine on January 27, 2010 at 10:44 PM · Report this
p.s. 93 - i think your panties are in a bunch. dan was just trying to be funny and pop culturally relevant/timely with the twilight comment. relax :)
Posted by alicenine on January 27, 2010 at 10:46 PM · Report this
the advise to HH was on point. i agree with Dan. reagardless what HH wants to do in this issue, but it IS what she wants. frankly, that's unfair.and it the end it WOULD be her fault if the relationship ended because she wouldn't be comfortable of him being bi. she should be open to her bf's sexual adventures. if this is where she draws the line then maybe HH should find another girl to explore his sexual desires.
Posted by ana on January 27, 2010 at 11:08 PM · Report this
94 - Yes, it was the first thing I thought of! Australians use 'mate' to mean 'friend', regardless of gender.
Posted by katemate on January 27, 2010 at 11:32 PM · Report this
People who get all self-righteous on Dan's column kill me. Because they never ever lie or manipulate anyone or only tell part of the truth, oh mercy no! They are little saints who never do anything wrong ever! And yet they seem to love reading about pervy sex. Shouldn't you people be watching the 700 Club or something?
Posted by LidaRose on January 28, 2010 at 1:47 AM · Report this
@84 - yes, WS=watersports. My number 1 all-time fantasy.
Posted by kinkymiddleagedwoman on January 28, 2010 at 2:06 AM · Report this
As a woman, I would be TOTALLY FINE with someone coming out to me as being bi. What I would NOT be fine with--at all--! is:

a) planning to cheat on me with another male friend in secret
b) coming out to me in some fake staged revelation
c) conning me into agreeing to a threesome and then blaming me if it hurts the relationship.

Btw, what if the girl's response to that brilliant idea is "Oh, yeah, a threesome would be hot, but I would want to stipulate no contact between you and the other guy except kissing, because I'd be jealous"? What would Dan advice the guy to do then? It wasn't the girl's idea to have the threesome, so she could take it or leave it, so if the guy thinks that condition is "unfair" she'd just say fair enough, scrap the threesome idea entirely. But if they do go through with it, he can't blame her (poor girl, being guilted for being GGG) if he gets "carried away" enough that he ends up with his mate's dick in his mouth or his ass.
Posted by Lucy Goosy on January 28, 2010 at 2:07 AM · Report this
#98 You got one thing right. I don't ever lie or manipulate other people. No 700 club for me though thank you!

Why is that inconsistent with reading about kinky sex?
Posted by NN on January 28, 2010 at 4:30 AM · Report this
Hey 98, if believing it's wrong to deceive or manipulate people to get what you want is your version of being "sanctimonious" - all I can say is you're a true All-American.

Yeah, most of us have done it and had it done to us, and most of us have decided it sucks and to avoid doing it.

I like SL and think it's performed an important service. I don't like it when DS advocates manipulating or deceiving people, because that's hurtful and dishonest and phony, and I don't think that helps *any* cause or *anybody*.
Posted by Belleweather on January 28, 2010 at 5:56 AM · Report this
Actually Dan's advice to HH is not all that much out-of-character for him; I've been noticing for some time that he says things that are stupid, misguided, and wrong. He's just one person w/one opinion and I found it frightenening that so many readers were giving him high fives for his alleged wisdom. It's a gratifying relief that people are starting to realize how off base he can be.
Posted by wayne on January 28, 2010 at 6:01 AM · Report this
Helgaleena agrees with #93, starsandgarters, that slash predates Twilight. But it's just a pastel version of the stuff we market at and the mainstreaming of bi and threesomes is a small step in what I consider the right direction-- tolerance of all LOVE.

Cannot fault Dan for making trendy tie ins instead of moldy ones like Kirk/Spock. But yes, the amusing scenario he posits is not the most honest toward the woman. One wonders if Dan has even accused a female in this manner himself? I hope not.
Posted by helgaleeena on January 28, 2010 at 6:55 AM · Report this
Helgaleena 105
Re: double penetration is most certainly fun, and just because a fellow wants to do it with you it doesn't mean he wants anything else. Do not push.

Leav e it to us fantasy writers to push, muwahaha! Apocalypse Woman by Tyree Kimber for example...
Posted by Helgaleena on January 28, 2010 at 7:00 AM · Report this
singing cynic 106
@103 -- I usually agree with Dan, who doesn't see things in a morally black-and-white way but who is often fair and pragmatic. Usually when he encourages deception it's OMISSION; when he encourages manipulation, it's to make something seem sexy and not scary.

This advice IS out of character because it might actually create some sex-negative feelings in the girlfriend, who deserves the benefit of the doubt -- to be presumed GGG until proven otherwise.
Posted by singing cynic on January 28, 2010 at 7:01 AM · Report this
perhaps the best thing about SL is not Dan's sometimes questionable advice, but the wide range of debate/viewpoints that follow in the comments. That anyone older than 16 thinks his advice to HH is "right on" is mind blowing to me. Not only is it just plain wrong by Dan's own standards, but as someone else said, unless GF is brain dead she will certainly realize she is being used.
Posted by gonzo on January 28, 2010 at 7:30 AM · Report this
@86, 89: My boyfriend has the exact same fears you both describe. I always tell him he's being dumb (nicely).

What's the difference if I leave you for a man or woman? You couldn't compete with that man OR woman -- period.

The fact is that anytime someone changes their mind about you, it's because you can't "compete" in other ways -- not only based on what kind of genitals you have. A person is more than just a body. Not to forget that anyone who leaves you JUST BECAUSE you don't have a dick/vag isn't worth having.

What's more, for me, thinking of someone as relationship material goes beyond what sex they are; give me some credit, yeah? I might want to have sex with women, but I've never thought romantically of any.

I'm actually MORE threatened by women, because at least if my boyfriend leaves for a man, I can just say to myself, "Well, it's not a judgment on me because I can't even compete on the most basic physical level there, much less all that other stuff." If he left me for a woman, I couldn't make up that kind of excuse and have to start reflecting on what kind of inferior person I am.
Posted by Gloria on January 28, 2010 at 9:21 AM · Report this
I'm modern, young, and female and I don't fantasize about boy-girl-boy threesomes, just girl-boy-girl threesomes.

That is all.
Posted by CamillaBear on January 28, 2010 at 9:40 AM · Report this
Wow. #1 is the worst advice in a DS column I can remember. I guess it's fair game to manipulate women, but if a woman wrote in and suggested she manipulate her BF like that Dan would be all over the bitch.

I would consider dating a bisexual guy. Depends on the guy. But if a guy lied to me about it, I'd DTMFA in a heartbeat. You can justify it however you want, but it still makes you a selfish, lying piece of shit.
Posted by Nick_S_38 on January 28, 2010 at 9:49 AM · Report this
DAN I cannot believe you response to #1, HH. If they followed your advice -- planned a threesome with the naive girlfriend -- she would think she was getting pleasured by two guys (aka Bella's Twilight fantasy, quoting you) and then be shocked to see her boyfriend instead having sex with another man right in front of her. That's what you ADVISE? Can you imagine the pain and damage that would cause? Obviously a huge amount of trust would be broken, and the couple would break up, and the girlfriend would have the baggage because of whoring herself out without knowing the reason.

Horrible. Now I personally believe that the "mate" is probably gay, not bi, and just hasn't tried enough yet with a man, but to assume that he would figure it out in a threesome involving his girlfriend is so wrong.

Dan needs to retract this answer.
Posted by SaraJean on January 28, 2010 at 11:51 AM · Report this
Posted by Yawgmoth on January 28, 2010 at 2:53 PM · Report this
#47 (a sizable proportion of women - 40% in your study - saying they would reject dating a man if he were bisexual): I'm sorry to hear the proportion is so high. I think it's an unthinking, knee-jerk reaction, based on the assumption or prejudice that bi men are (1) not going to be able to remain in a monogamous relationship with a woman because men are just too damn attractive to them or (2) diseased because bi male=promiscuous. Interestingly, my partner is a liberal bisexual woman, and SHE thinks a bi man would eventually want to date men again! (I'm a liberal bi woman as well.)

#72 (bi men are diseased): If I were single and met an attractive (and honest, and mature) bi man, I would do exactly what I did with my current partner before pursuing a relationship: GO GET TESTED, and agree to be monogamous. Just because an individual is a member of a group, doesn't mean all members of that group are the same (in this case, STD-ridden) Geez, it isn't rocket science! (I'm not addressing the conspiracy theory because I have no idea if it's valid or not.)

#73 (criticizing @72): right on!

#92: yes, straight people are no more disease-free than gay or bi people are disease-ridden. Bang on!

#108: Gloria, for me this is the post of the day. It's about the individual, not about the category. Go back and read this one folks; I'm not pasting it in here because I'm already running off at the keyboard.

Interestingly, the prejudice against bi appears to exist in the lesbian community as well. When I first came out as bi after my marriage broke up, I was on the receiving end of a horrid monologue on a dating site - "bi women spread disease and confusion in the lesbian community." It HURT, and more seriously, it was bloody incorrect. The label is not the issue, it's the individual and how he or she behaves. You can be married to a 'straight' 'monogomous' traditional Bible thumper and find out he's been banging males and/or females behind your back!

#62 (annoyed at #47 for saying he doesn't want to be rejected on the basis of bisexuality): there's a difference between being rejected for reasons of what I'll term taste (e.g., height, breast size, intelligence) and prejudice. Neither is rational, but there's a difference between "I just don't like chocolate ice cream" and "I don't eat chocolate ice cream because it's more likely to be germ-ridden than vanilla!" The first is just a preference, the second a rejection based on an incorrect belief.

#72 (bi guys are diseased!!): you provide an excellent example of what I consider an incorrect belief. Even if I am wrong and bi guys are STD-ridden, THIS DOES NOT MEAN ALL BI MEN ARE STD carriers. It's important to judge an individual as an individual, and not just as a member of a group.

Posted by BiCanuck on January 28, 2010 at 4:35 PM · Report this
Seems to me from all said in the first letter and Dan's response that the two men have a stronger bond than the guy who has the girlfriend has with her alone. Setting her up to take the fall if it doesn't work out? Yikes. Well, the reality of the situation is that if it doesn't work out SOMEONE has to take the fall. The girlfriend in this case sounds eminently dispensable. So do her feelings. In the long run though the strategy Dan lays out might be for the best since, if the whole scenario creeps HER out, she will have to own that in the face of suspicions about her boyfriend's "compromised" sexuality. In a day and age when hooking up is so EASY for hot, young, horny people (via the internet) I do however wonder why these two "mates" want to even bother with this girl when they could successfully bang chicks who are GGG with the whole m-m-f scenario? Is it the Conquest? For many men it IS. Rather than even court this girl, though, I think the guys ought to pursue their activities with OBVIOUSLY eager and willing via internet contacts on-the-sly (if necessary) and that the girl in this case should be cut loose immediately if she even hints at being apprehensive. There's nothing really to be gained by pressuring her into a sexual entanglement that the boyfriend already suspects won't go the way they hope.
Posted by god on January 28, 2010 at 4:50 PM · Report this
Sorry Dan, you're awesome, but I just can't agree with your response to the first letter (though the others seemed just fine to me - I know you crave my personal approval :P).

Fact is, there's already too much bullshit, manipulation, melodrama, dishonesty, passive aggression and FSM knows else in the world.

The bullshit approach you suggest might save a bit of discomfort in the short term, but if these guys are looking toward the long term health of their relationships and friendships, kicking off this potentially wonderful new phase in their sexuality with a pile of lies is absolutely the wrong way to do it.

I just plain came out as bi to my partner of three years (in my defence, only a few weeks after I realised it myself) and she just dealt with it because she loved me and wanted me to be happy. We just passed seventeen years together, so it worked out in the long run. If I had come out to her in a dodgy, dishonest way... I dunno, it would have felt like building foundations out of sand.
Posted by DexX on January 28, 2010 at 4:51 PM · Report this
@110: Agree. I'd be fine if my husband wanted to fuck a guy, as long as he told me first. If he did what Dan is advocating in the first letter, I'd be furious.
Posted by Lucy in the Sky on January 28, 2010 at 7:39 PM · Report this
I'm a slightly bi guy and I don't think that the super-hetero bf in letter #2 wanting to feel a penis in his gf's ass while his dick is in her snatch makes him bi any more than a male getting off on staring at a penis going into a woman in, say, typical straight porn. It doesn't mean that he wants to have sex with the penis or the connected human himself or make out with the said guy. Although it seems like it would be somewhat difficult to avoid all touch with the other male or have it be just "business." Not that it really matters much. Although, I could see her jumping to the conclusion that he is bi and not going to ever be satisfied solely by her.
Posted by fucking critic on January 28, 2010 at 8:14 PM · Report this
I'm a straight girl, and the only guys I know who are not turned on my 3somes are wierdos from small towns who say,"I'm not gay!" super defensively. (HMMM, what does that mean?). Most straight guys, well, ok, all straight guys except for the above,love a little anal play, and yeah, that's their heterosexual asses, not my girl ass. And they all want to get off with their mates, or friends that are guys. High five and whatever. It's fun, it's great, so what if it's not 100% heterosexual? Labels are for suckers!
Posted by orangatangirl on January 28, 2010 at 9:30 PM · Report this
Tortured sigh: "I'm attracted to Male Friend, Girlfriend Whom I Love. Whatever shall I do?"

Days of reassurance and trepidation and support later: "He's got the hots for you!"

She'll help.
Posted by yep on January 28, 2010 at 11:01 PM · Report this
First letter - That is the WORST fucking advice you have EVER!! given!

Where are your rules - the couple discusses what they're comf. with before the threesome, own your own sexuality, and wtf is up with the advice for the boyfriend to burdon his girlfriend, " you MADE me bi." What a heavy load to put on someone, when it's a COMPLETE LIE!!

First off, the girl might be into it. Second off, if she isn't and it's a deal breaker, BREAK THE FUCK UP.

Ways to tell the gf: Yes, I'm interested in a 3-some. Yes, I'm bi-curious. No, this doesn't mean I don't love you and your bod. What? You're bi too? Yes, we can also do a FFM threesome.

How about boundaries are established that EVERYONE is comfortable with, to start. After the first 3some, discuss expanding, if need be, who is doing what to whom! I mean the girl might not even want letter writer to touch her at first, so maybe he's got to touch her only about the waist or only when her bf's touching her (not likely, but possible ) or whatever.

So Dan, your advice is TRULY THE WORST I have ever read. Get a grip.
Posted by EmilyYaHeard on January 29, 2010 at 1:51 AM · Report this
I dated a bisexual dude and it was fun. If people don't want to date bi-people, they probably have their heads up their own butts.

Posted by RitaRozz on January 29, 2010 at 1:59 AM · Report this
Also I wanted to clarify: I'm a bi gal and I'd be fine with dating a bi guy--but the rules would be the same for him as anyone else I date: exclusivity. I'm monogamous, anyone with me should be too. Screwing around with a friend behind my back is not absolutely not ok. Being bi does not have to mean you can't be faithful--and if you can't, then what you need to be confessing to me isn't that you're bi, it's that you can't do monogamous relationships.
Posted by Luucy Goosy on January 29, 2010 at 3:35 AM · Report this
Masturbandit 123
Uncertain Nephew Craving Levelheaded Explanation should introduce his closeted Mormon uncle to the Threesome Curious couple, and meanwhile Horny Homo and Flirting with Danger can screw two of the Mormon uncle's wives.
Posted by Masturbandit on January 29, 2010 at 5:41 AM · Report this
I know this is off topic, but the thread on women's refusal to date bi men got me to thinking. Does bisexuality come up when you're trying to hook up for a one night stand with a stranger?

I'm curious, just how many of you respondents insist on having a potential sex partner tested before you have sex with them? Do you insist on using condoms until they get a clean bill of health? Do you require them to get retested periodically? Do you require the results to be sent to you directly? I know, it kind of ruins the spontaneity and romance while displaying a lack of trust in someone you just met. I doubt many people talk about sexual health while trying to hook up.
Posted by a skeptic and a cynic on January 29, 2010 at 8:02 AM · Report this
The last letter, from FWD, might be misinterpreting the coworker's actions. He's judging his coworker's flirtatious actions by the standards of the interactions he's used to with gay men. Women are not the same.

Some women enjoy flirting, just for fun, for it's own sake. It doesn't mean they want to consummate a relationship, or even have a quick snog in the supply closet.

If she knows he's gay, and she knows that he knows she's married, this gives her a virtual free pass to play at flirting and practice her wiles. It may not even be conscious on her part.

I had a young colleague at work, who was always very tactile, touching my arms and shoulders, and standing a bit too close most of the time. Being older, and married, I was considered "safe," I guess. Meanwhile, I thought she was interested in reciprocation. This notion was rapidly dispelled one day when we were walking outside to lunch, and I reached to hold hands with her. She pretty much freaked, and that was the end of that.
Posted by Brooklyn Reader on January 29, 2010 at 8:20 AM · Report this
@124: I do require getting tested before hooking up. In fact, I require having gotten tested since your last sex partner, which should have been long enough ago to actually test for everything (some things, including HIV, give false negatives shortly after you acquire them). Even with the testing, I still require condoms, due to the things that can't be tested for, like HPV in men. I know that limits my sexual options, and I'm ok with that. I always get tested between partners, too.

@47 A rational reason? Donating blood. You can't donate blood if you are a male who has had sexual contact with another male since 1977, or if you have had sex with someone who has done so. Mind you, I'd still date a bisexual, but you wanted a rational reason, so there it is.

You logic obsessed folks are adorable. Totally my type, despite being somewhat irrational myself.
Posted by Mostly Rational on January 29, 2010 at 11:46 AM · Report this
@118: I need to live where you live.
Posted by Gloria on January 29, 2010 at 11:58 AM · Report this
@126, you are adorable yourself, if everyone was that responsible about their health, there would be no STDs within a few decades!
Posted by smart is sexy on January 29, 2010 at 12:05 PM · Report this
Just some thoughts.

Is the bi boyfriend already a CPOS or just proposing to become one (i.e. is he already having gay sex)? HH doesn't indicate whether the couple has an open or closed relationship. Only HH appears to have any qualms about having sex behind the girlfriend's back.
Posted by a skeptic and a cynic on January 29, 2010 at 12:13 PM · Report this
Where are all the bi-curious guys in Vancouver?

I agree with the women who said it's a number one fantasy, with everyone getting busy. And if my otherwise straight-identifying partner got a little carried away, that would be so hot.

But what's up with this: I have had two boyfriends tell me they wanted to bring another man into our bed, only to back out after I had actually lined someone up!?

I also have a friend who used to regularly have FFM threesomes, but then he switched to MMF. Why? He said the women would get jealous of each other and it wasn't worth the drama.
Posted by ChameLion on January 29, 2010 at 4:04 PM · Report this
Chris in Vancouver WA 131
Re the 2nd letter:

4 words: guys like to watch.

It's a proven fact that guys respond (sexually) to visual stimuli more than gals. I suspect that a lot of the guys who have this fantasy (unrealized or realized) just dig watching their gf getting fucked. (And hey, you get to be part of this hot scene without doing any of the work! What man wouldn't want that?) Just because the number of guys on the bed > 1, it does not necessarily = bisexual.

And I'm SURE that there are plenty of times where the guy thinks he'd be into it, but freaks out when it actually happens (for whatever reason). Those are the failed mmf 3-ways that you never, EVER hear about...
Posted by Chris in Vancouver WA on January 29, 2010 at 5:38 PM · Report this
Chris in Vancouver WA 132
@ 130 - "Where are all the bi-curious guys in Vancouver?"

Posted by Chris in Vancouver WA on January 29, 2010 at 5:41 PM · Report this
@2 and 3: I think it's so funny that these people are so oblivious and totally missed Dan's terrible answer to HH. They just jumped right to the comment box and tried to get their "Great job as always, Dan~~~ ^___^" shit onto the page asap. Read the fucking article first.

Normally I think Dan Savage is amazing. But that answer was definitely no good.
Posted by Jamez on January 30, 2010 at 5:57 PM · Report this
... After all, in a homosexual marriage, there is no woman there to say "No" to sex all the time, so it should pretty much be a free-for-all, all the time. ... I wish it were that simple. Gay couples have to deal with all the same relationship crap, financial issues, job stresses, etc. and it's not always as easy as you would think to keep that out of the bedroom.
Posted by sfguy on January 30, 2010 at 9:00 PM · Report this
Someday my boyfriend will agree to have a MMF threesome. Someday.

As for the DP? ehh, probably not. Unless the other guy has a very small peen.

@131 - I truly hate when people make generalizations, especially about women. All this crap that men are more into visual stimulation than women? PLEASE. I can't have sex with the lights off. I watch porn. I'm a woman. I LIKE TO WATCH. End of story.
Posted by hai on January 31, 2010 at 9:59 AM · Report this
patogato 136
I used to like dp, but I guess it just got old? love the use of innards ;)
Posted by patogato on January 31, 2010 at 2:43 PM · Report this
@131 Let's keep fantasy separate from reality. Sure most guys like to watch and many guys fantasize about watching their gf getting fucked by another guy, even gang banged, but the reality is that a lot guys would lose, some if not all, respect for the girlfriend dooming their relationship. It may seem/be hot and a good idea at the time, but not if it wakes you up in the middle of the night. Relationships can survive many things, but not the loss of respect. The only worse is the loss of trust although they tend to be intertwined. Granted this is a gross oversimplification of the dynamics of relationships.
Posted by beentheredonethatgotthetshirt on February 1, 2010 at 5:44 AM · Report this
Dan - I can't believe that you would advise someone to blame another person for their sexuality; you're better than that.
Posted by emmainnz on February 1, 2010 at 10:17 PM · Report this
SeaTownLockDown 139
I really don't get it. Am I living in some kinda Twilight Zone episode? I have worked in bar and clubs for years in Seattle and have never ever met one female that would want to try a MMF (I'm straight so I don't wanna do anything with the guy, but I do appreciate seeing the beauty of a woman being fucked in front of me). In my 2+ years in Seattle I have met the most sexually conservative women to ever go out on a Friday/Saturday night. I just don't get how there's apparently all these women out there that would do that but I'm just not meeting any of them. Whoa is me! Shed a tear with me so I don't feel so alone.
Posted by SeaTownLockDown on February 2, 2010 at 11:00 AM · Report this
Listen up, girls and gays:

A man's MMF fantasy does not necessarily make him bisexual--even the "tiniest bit".

There are countless MMF-DP porn scenes out there with absolutely zero MM contact, "innards" excepted.

Guys are obviously getting off on this, or MMF-DP porn wouldn't be produced in such volume. There is also plenty of MMF-Bi stuff (not as much, I'm guessing) but that is clearly serving a different market.

I notice in the comments above, and in my own conversations with women, that people tend to assume that MMF implies direct sexual MM interaction.

Perhaps this is because it is their fantasy, or their fear. But that don't make it so.
Posted by bellingman on February 2, 2010 at 1:10 PM · Report this
MMF is probably also misunderstood because FFM fantasies for both men and women almost always assume FF contact. So people assume the opposite is also true.

It isn't. At least not always, and maybe even not usually.
Posted by bellingman on February 2, 2010 at 1:24 PM · Report this
Maybe I missed this, because I only read the first 100 comments or so, but I wouldn't date a bi man (And it did come up once, but there were other issues in the relationship, one of which was, in fact, lying to me about being bi.) because there's something about men a bi male is attracted to. That's something I cannot provide in a relationship. I think a bi male would eventually miss the male on male part of his sexuality.

But then, I require monogamy for myself though I don't believe it works for everyone, so I may just be too old fashioned for this column! :-)
Posted by IronB on February 2, 2010 at 1:55 PM · Report this
Just thought I'd post a few recent statistics on STDs /venereal diseases. Note the statement about these diseases posing MUCH MORE of a RISK to women. As for those ningnongs and their blather about "going together to get tested"; How do you KNOW what your Bi-boyfriend is DOING BEHIND YOUR BACK? And a BI guy (remember, men are ALREADY "hardwired to cheat") is subject to TWICE the temptation!


Syphilis, gonorrhea, chlamydia, herpes, HPV, HIV... not only are these sexually transmitted diseases all on the rise, according to a recent report from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), but they also pose "a particularly heavy burden on women."

* Syphilis, once on the verge of elimination, increased 15.2 percent between 2006 and 2007 (the last year that data is available), and is now striking more women and their infants than ever.

* Reported cases of chlamydia (which can lead to infertility) and gonorrhea—estimated to represent only half of actual cases since so many go undiagnosed—were the highest in history in 2007, with the rate of chlamydia among women three times that of men.

* Females now account for more than a quarter of all new HIV/ AIDS diagnoses, with high-risk heterosexual contact the source of 80 percent of these newly diagnosed infections.

* Hepatitis B, which is 50 to 100 times more infectious than HIV, often causes no symptoms. People may not know they're infected until they develop serious liver disease.

* And HPV—which is responsible for causing 70 percent of cervical cancer and 90 percent of genital warts cases—has become the most common STD on the planet, and it's spreading at epidemic rates: About 25 million women in the U.S. are currently infected, according to the CDC, and another 6.2 million are newly diagnosed each year.

All these diseases are RAMPANT in the gay community to a MUCH GREATER EXTENT than is being reported HERE, due to "political correctness".
Posted by Maihesa on February 2, 2010 at 5:26 PM · Report this
Dan, regarding your answer to #1: way to promote the trust, honesty, and open communication, dude.

Sheez, if we wanted mind games like that we'd read a fucking Christian column.
Posted by arghan on February 2, 2010 at 11:58 PM · Report this
@29 to thunda71
My general opinion of DP is high. Done twice. Once anal/vaginal; once double vaginal. Intensely pleasurable. Particularly when performed slowly, with two guys who love you. No regrets. Requires scheduling and sensitivity on the guys' part. Neither were gay, just aiming to pleasure me. Obviously, not the same situation as the 3-some described here.
Posted by DP Lover on February 3, 2010 at 7:28 AM · Report this
Milbury 146
DP (if the woman is comfortable with both men) will make her squirt like noone's business. I've done it with two separate women, and both of them left my crotch soaked in vaginal goodness.

As far as the "I'd never date a bi guy because I couldn't satisfy his desire for cock" argument is concerned, porn exists for a reason. If a bi guy is in love with a woman, there's nothing stopping him from visiting any site and watching as much amateur/professional bisexual/gay porn as he likes (as long as he isn't allowing porn to act as a deterrent in the bedroom for the living, breathing person in his life.) Not every bisexual person on the planet is a "practicing" bisexual. Many of them are just people who learned that they get turned on whether the dick:pussy ratio in a video is even or overwhelmingly tilted in one given direction. And if a woman can jill off to a Dawson video (my own LTR lady love) and claim to be "straight", then it isn't impossible to find an "out" bisexual who's happy with just *watching* the same things. Or even opposite things, in the case of bi men dating gay men who solely watch girl-on-girl porn when they aren't taking the cock like sluts or bending their lovers over a table, etc. Like Savage has said in the past, all gays/bis don't engage in anal sex and most of them are happy without engaging in penetration at all (IOW, excluding the highest risk factor for disease transmission.) If a woman had a choice between dating a guy who called up a male friend for a jack-off session when she "wasn't in the mood", or dating a guy who ran off and fucked prostitutes without protection when she "wasn't in the mood", I'll bet that the number of women who'd date bi men would increase exponentially.

Posted by Milbury on February 4, 2010 at 5:13 PM · Report this
Apparently when Dan talks about vaginas, he is only ever talking about yours.

Get over yourself.
Posted by suddenlyorcas on May 15, 2011 at 10:16 AM · Report this

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