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Teen Beat
September 11, 2008
I'm a middle-aged guy. My boyfriend just left his teens. We originally got to know each other because I like to tie up muscular young guys and he's a muscular young guy who likes getting tied up. But he's a smart kid and after a few months we started actually liking each other. At some point that like turned to love.
Here's the problem: My boyfriend's parents—who are a little younger than I am—were snooping and found video clips on his computer that clearly illustrated our activities. He still lives with his parents and they were, prior to this discovery, entirely ignorant of their son's sexual orientation and interests. They're now threatening all the things asshole parents threaten: to kick him out, to stop paying for school, to disown him.
My first reaction was, "Come live with me, you don't need that kind of crap in your life." But the more I think about it, the more I wonder if it's the right thing to do. They are his family. Would I really be acting in his best interests if I helped him walk away from them, even as horrible as they're acting? I can put him up at my place. I can pay for his schooling. I'd be proud to do it. But I wonder if I'd be facilitating a decision he'd one day come to regret. Plus, we're in Boston and he isn't yet 21. On top of everything else, is there a chance the law could decide to bite me in the ass?
Not The Bad Guy
I can't do my best work, NTBG, without seeing those video clips. But let me give it a shot...
Your boyfriend is of legal age, so I don't see how you could possibly be in trouble with the law. (Unless those bondage videos were made before he reached the age of consent, which I'm hoping they were not.) His parents might not like the fact that their son is gay and a bondage freak, or that he's involved with an older man, but there's not a lot they can do about it.
Besides, of course, tossing him out, disowning him, and refusing to pay for his education.
If they do toss him out and refuse to pay for his education, NTBG, you should take him in and pay for his education. Don't do anything—anything else—that might antagonize your boyfriend's parents. No confrontations, no accusations, no scenes. Write them one polite letter. Tell them you appreciate how distressing it must have been for them to learn about their son's interests the way that they did, and tell them that, despite how they may have interpreted those video clips, you mean their son no harm, and that you intend to look out for him and keep him in school. Close by telling them you will encourage your boyfriend to keep the lines of communication open with them.
It could be emotionally tricky for a while, perhaps a long while, as his parents adjust to the big kinky news. But that's what happens when you snoop: Sometimes you find out things that you didn't want to know, didn't need to know, or weren't ready to know.
As for the boyfriend, it's entirely possible that he may one day blame you for his estrangement from his parents. You can inoculate yourself against those charges by making sure he sees you doing whatever you can to lay the groundwork for an eventual reconciliation.
Moving on, NTBG, you say you're in love, and that's swell. But just between us grown-ups: Very few people wind up with the person they met and fell in love with in their teens. At best, you'll have a few great years with this kid. But this can be a really successful relationship even if, as the song goes, "it's only for now"—if you play your cards right. And unless his parents are seriously nuts and your boyfriend desperately needs the legal protections of marriage—he needs you to be his next of kin in case of a medical emergency, for instance—I wouldn't marry his hot and kinky 20-year-old ass. And if he does need the legal protections of marriage, make him sign a prenup.
Speaking of hot teenagers and asshole parents and vows that you may come to regret...
The 17-year-old daughter of Sarah Palin, the GOP's vice-presidential nominee, is pregnant. The news was released by the McCain camp during a busy week—a hurricane, the Republican National Convention, Dick Cheney getting us into a war with Russia—so it didn't receive the coverage it deserved. To recap:
Seventeen-year-old Bristol Palin got her ass knocked up five or so months ago by 18-year-old Levi Johnston. Among the hobbies listed on Levi's since-yanked MySpace page—"fishing, shoot some shit, and just fuckin' chillin'"—was this revealing tidbit: "I don't want kids." But Bristol, says her mom, "made the decision on her own to keep the baby," and is now engaged to Levi "Shootin' Shit" Johnston.
As the adoptive parent of a child born to a pair of unwed teenagers, I'm certainly not in favor of abortion in all circumstances. But I believe that it's a choice teenagers should be able to make for themselves—with input from their families whenever possible—and, so it seems, does the GOP's VP nominee. Sarah Palin is pleased that her daughter made the decision—on her own—to keep the baby.
But Sarah Palin doesn't believe that other girls should be able to make their own decisions. Sarah Palin believes abortion should be illegal in almost every instance—including rape and incest. So Bristol Palin is being celebrated for making a choice that Sarah Palin would like to take away from all other American women. Apparently, today's GOP believes that choice is a special right reserved for the wayward daughters of Republican elected officials.
Oh, and Sarah Palin also believes that birth control shouldn't be made available to teenagers, she opposes medically accurate sex education, and she backs abstinence-until- marriage sex "education."
Sigh.
The GOP has poured hundreds of millions of dollars into abstinence "education" programs during the Bush years. I believe this enormous investment of public funds begs the obvious question: Is our children abstaining? Sarah Palin's aren't. Despite this massive outlay on the part of the American taxpayer and the example set by her Christian parents, Bristol Palin became sexually active while still in high school. Excuse me, but if abstinence education can't keep the daughter of the evangelical governor of Alaska off the cock, what hope is there for the daughters—and some of the sons—of average Americans?
I'm a cad for writing this, of course, because shortly before Bristol and Levi were paraded before cheering throngs at the Republican National Convention, the Palins asked the media to respect their daughter's privacy.
Another special right: When it comes to respecting your family's privacy, Palin and the GOP see no need. They want to micromanage the most intimate aspects of your private life. And if their own kids fail to live up to the standards that Palin and the GOP seek to impose on your family, well, that's a private matter between the Palins, their daughter, their God, and the thousands of screaming imbeciles in elephant hats waving McCain/Palin signs on the floor of the Republican National Convention.
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1
This question and the first one from last week ("My spouse and I have been physically disconnected for years. This led to some rather sleazy adulterate behavior on my part" etc etc etc) are remarkably familiar. Have they been posted before, or is this a case of Savage Love déjà vu?
3
That is so right on, as always dan- your the man. I knew you were going to talk about this, and not to disappoint, your eloquence is never cad.
This hypocrisy is a fundamentally violent act towards all of us. Its too bad that some are too dumb to realize it.
This hypocrisy is a fundamentally violent act towards all of us. Its too bad that some are too dumb to realize it.
6
@losing it?
I doubt they're repeats, at least no the exact same person requesting the exact same advice, but it seems poor Dan is bombarded with people who ask the same fucking questions every week.
Thankfully people do this, because Dan has an amazing job offering sex advice to folks and all the freedom that comes along with it. Unfortunately, those of us who are avid readers have to suffer through the stupidity and obstinacy of our fellow human beings.
One would think after years of Dan's amazing advice something would sink in though with his readers though.
I doubt they're repeats, at least no the exact same person requesting the exact same advice, but it seems poor Dan is bombarded with people who ask the same fucking questions every week.
Thankfully people do this, because Dan has an amazing job offering sex advice to folks and all the freedom that comes along with it. Unfortunately, those of us who are avid readers have to suffer through the stupidity and obstinacy of our fellow human beings.
One would think after years of Dan's amazing advice something would sink in though with his readers though.
7
No--this isn't fair, Dan! You can't make us wait all week for a new column, and then just recycle a "letter of the day" from a few weeks ago! We're not all Republicans who won't notice that you're peddling the same tired old advice!
8
I'm assuming that when the Palin family paraded Bristol and her hottie Levi before the GOP and the world, they had basically changed their minds about keeping it private. I mean, you don't walk center stage on international TV if you want it private, so they MUST have changed their mind.
More importantly ... where are Levi's near-naked (or totally naked) pics? I mean, doesn't every dude have some bare ass pics partying and hanging out with his bros? Streaking, shut out at flipcup, teabagging his passed out friends...?
More importantly ... where are Levi's near-naked (or totally naked) pics? I mean, doesn't every dude have some bare ass pics partying and hanging out with his bros? Streaking, shut out at flipcup, teabagging his passed out friends...?
9
This is the column that appears in print. Sometimes Dan puts relevant letters in Slog, as he did with this one and the one last week. I think it's good to put letters on important subjects in both areas, to reach the most readers. Dan, good job as always.
11
A terrifyingly unqualified woman (and I point out her gender because if Sarah were Dan she'd still be in Alaska) is romanced by 72 year old three time cancer surviving John McCain. Instead of saying - well John I'm unqualified and I have some serious family issues going on right now so I'll take a pass. No she signs up. Worse, this family values advocate parades her 17 year old pregnant daughter and the gun-totting teenager who helped her on her way, in front of the whole world.
12
While I agree with your views on the whole Palin issue, is your column the best place to bitch about it?. It's in the mag, it's on the slog, it's all over the place, yet you still use the Savage Love column as yet another soapbox to preach from. Enough is enough already, keep the column for what its intended to be, a sex advice column, not a political stage.
13
What do you mean, "our daughters and some of our sons"? Do you think that all teenage girls have teenage sex but only some teenage boys? Seriously, you should switch your brain on when you're editing.
14
Oops. Somehow I'd heard about Palin but not Cheney. Thanks for keeping us in the know about politics from time to time. I appreciate it as a sex-advice column, but I'm grateful for the political tidbits.
Also, typo: "Is our children abstaining?"
Also, typo: "Is our children abstaining?"
15
The more people some people feel threatened, the more they want to go back to the 1950's.... this seems to be why the red states have higher rates of teen pregnancy and divorce than the blue states.... i.e. the worse the 1950's mindset works, the more it's desired by some people who feel desperate.... nice business model to base a political party on...
16
Angel, the "is our children" line is reminiscent of one of Bush's most memorable quotes: "Is our children learning?" It's not a typo.
17
As always, a quality column. However, there is one thing I think you should've added. If the older guy is going to take the step of taking care of this kid by having him move in and pay for his education, thus cutting off his parents (through their choice but still) he's got to make a guarantee to himself and the kid that even if the relationship goes south, he'll continue to help him out with school and other funds. Otherwise, the kid is as much a hostage to the relationhip as he would be living at home with his controlling parents. Very few people 18 to 22/23 are entirely self-sufficient, especially when support gets cancelled abruptly. In some ways this guy is becoming the kids parents and there are responsibilities that go along with this. Plus it adds a whole new meaning to the phrase "tie me up daddy".
18
Best not to emphasize the "choice" part of the Bristol pregnancy, because Palin is certain to argue that Bristol decided to "keep the baby" rather than give it up for adoption. Abortion was never an option in the "choice" continuum, she'll say. I like the abstinence angle much better.
19
Yeah, every time a Republican would say something to the effect of being the party that keeps the government out of your private life I was really thrown. Ditto with fiscal responsibility. Really?? Does anyone still buy that?
21
One topic not discussed here is Bristol Palin's "decision" to marry her baby's daddy. Let us not forget that Matthew Staver, the dean of Liberty University law school (founded by the late Jerry Falwell)said of Bristol's pregnancy and decision to marry: "We're all sinners. We all make mistakes. Certainly the ideal is not to get pregnant out of wedlock. But she made the right decision after her mistake" (Baltimore Sun, 2 SEPT 08, p11).
WHOA! "HER" mistake?!?! Did she somehow get pregnant all by herself?! I mean - if we have to lay "blame" here, her pregnancy could be "blamed" upon her ignorance of birth control methods, which knowledge of or access to were likely never made available to her by good old mom and dad. And didn't the father of her baby have some responsiblity?
And why does her getting married to some other 17 year old somehow redeem her? And why does she even need to be redeemed here?
And it is funny - Bristol is living, breathing (for two, actually...) evidence of their sex life TOGETHER. But its only NOW they are supposed to get married? And it is only SHE that is the hapless victim that has to get married? With this logic, it would appear that it is completely ok for the boyfriend to do as many girls as he wants, as long as he actually marries the one that has evidence he had sex with her.
Are we really still stuck criminalizing Eve?
WHOA! "HER" mistake?!?! Did she somehow get pregnant all by herself?! I mean - if we have to lay "blame" here, her pregnancy could be "blamed" upon her ignorance of birth control methods, which knowledge of or access to were likely never made available to her by good old mom and dad. And didn't the father of her baby have some responsiblity?
And why does her getting married to some other 17 year old somehow redeem her? And why does she even need to be redeemed here?
And it is funny - Bristol is living, breathing (for two, actually...) evidence of their sex life TOGETHER. But its only NOW they are supposed to get married? And it is only SHE that is the hapless victim that has to get married? With this logic, it would appear that it is completely ok for the boyfriend to do as many girls as he wants, as long as he actually marries the one that has evidence he had sex with her.
Are we really still stuck criminalizing Eve?
23
Whoa! Does anyone really imagine that Bristol Palin "made the choice" to carry a pregnancy to term? Or that "Shootin' Shit" is marrying her under any circumstances other than at gunpoint? You can bet your moose that Caribou Barbie twisted her kid's arm up behind her back over this one, maybe metaphorically, maybe literally.
24
As a lesbian, I think Governor Palin is hot. She's a total MILF. Admittedly she'd like to seize control of my genitalia, but if she did it in person that might not be such a bad thing.
Now, should McCain and Palin get into office and start implementing their forced-birth strategy, I suggest that we all start exercising our 2nd Amendment rights. I'd like to see *anyone* try take a coat hanger away from a pistol-packing feminazi.
Now, should McCain and Palin get into office and start implementing their forced-birth strategy, I suggest that we all start exercising our 2nd Amendment rights. I'd like to see *anyone* try take a coat hanger away from a pistol-packing feminazi.
26
GOP didn't spend its money, the GOP controlled Federal Government wasted OUR tax money! (And debt money that that 20 year old will have repay someday.)
27
Marie: I believe Dan's reference to "some of your sons" was meant to imply that some of them are "on the cock," not that fewer teenaged boys have sex.
30
I don't understand why anyone should be paying for this kid's education except the kid himself. I had to figure out how to pay my own way and it really was character building. Not that I would have minded a sugar daddy...
31
As a product of the public school system in thoroughly republic Texas, I have actually experienced abstinence-only education first hand.
Thanks to having frank, open discussions about sex with my parents and a naturally antisocial nature, I'm still single at nineteen, but to be totally honest?
Even knowing the (actual, not exagerated fear-mongering) risks, even knowing that it wasn't something I actually wanted at that point in my life, walking out of my school's abstinence only program in sophomore, I really, really wanted to run out and fuck the first guy I ran into, just to spite their self-righteous, arrogant, condescending, *lying * asses.
Because that's what abstinence only education does: it lies. It tries to booby trap sex by insinuating that everyone who has sex before marriage (not before mental-emotional maturity to make big descisions, mind you, but *marriage*) will inevitably end up heatbroken, pregnant, and dead of AIDS/Chlamydia/Syphilis/whatever.
Not necessarily in that order.
And teenagers KNOW that that's not true, so the Abstinence only people lose any shot at credibility. SO instead of actually getting kids to think about what they're doing, they convince them that *all* the warnings about unsafe sex are as much B.S. as the stuff they're pushing.
Which is probably why I had so many pregnant classmates.
Thanks to having frank, open discussions about sex with my parents and a naturally antisocial nature, I'm still single at nineteen, but to be totally honest?
Even knowing the (actual, not exagerated fear-mongering) risks, even knowing that it wasn't something I actually wanted at that point in my life, walking out of my school's abstinence only program in sophomore, I really, really wanted to run out and fuck the first guy I ran into, just to spite their self-righteous, arrogant, condescending, *lying * asses.
Because that's what abstinence only education does: it lies. It tries to booby trap sex by insinuating that everyone who has sex before marriage (not before mental-emotional maturity to make big descisions, mind you, but *marriage*) will inevitably end up heatbroken, pregnant, and dead of AIDS/Chlamydia/Syphilis/whatever.
Not necessarily in that order.
And teenagers KNOW that that's not true, so the Abstinence only people lose any shot at credibility. SO instead of actually getting kids to think about what they're doing, they convince them that *all* the warnings about unsafe sex are as much B.S. as the stuff they're pushing.
Which is probably why I had so many pregnant classmates.
32
Dan you're the man.
You hit the nail on the head with Sarah Palin and Bristle "open legs" Palin and the GOP.
Also, I as an African American Female of 20 years of age (and a virgin, whooo!) I would like to thank you so much for what you said on Bill Maher this past Friday. If Barack had a baby situation in anyway similar to Palin's the RIGHT would rip on him till they killed the election.
Must also thank you and Kelly Washington for making a point about abstinence education. I feel very sorry for anyone from the highschool I graduated from. It was an all girls highschool and the only attempt they made about sex was hiring a program called "worth the wait" just once in my 2nd year. The program was nothing but a slide show of STI'd private areas, so it was more scare than education.
You hit the nail on the head with Sarah Palin and Bristle "open legs" Palin and the GOP.
Also, I as an African American Female of 20 years of age (and a virgin, whooo!) I would like to thank you so much for what you said on Bill Maher this past Friday. If Barack had a baby situation in anyway similar to Palin's the RIGHT would rip on him till they killed the election.
Must also thank you and Kelly Washington for making a point about abstinence education. I feel very sorry for anyone from the highschool I graduated from. It was an all girls highschool and the only attempt they made about sex was hiring a program called "worth the wait" just once in my 2nd year. The program was nothing but a slide show of STI'd private areas, so it was more scare than education.
33
You missed the "Fuckin' Redneck" self-description from Levi's now-removed Facebook/Myspace.
p.s. Was 'Bend Over Boyfriend' pseudo-screened at Western Washington, or Pitt?
p.s. Was 'Bend Over Boyfriend' pseudo-screened at Western Washington, or Pitt?
34
As most people from the Yukon (Canadian territory just east of Alaska) do, I feel a northern affinity. That is, Alaskans and northern Canadians feel a certain solidary - look at how rugged we are! - congenially referring to the rest of Canada and the US as the 'Outside.' So, despite my firmly leftist leaning, I was excited to see a fellow northerner in the public view. Than I learned that, although we're mostly all prepared to like each other up here, Sarah Pale would not like my leftist, pro-choice, kinky female self.
35
the focus on abstince in sex ed really scares me!!! by the time they even give sex ed kids are already fucking!! like sweet no sex before marrige might have worked in the days of married at 13, but now no!
36
Dan kicked Palin's a*s on Bill Maher without here even being in the room. The annoying tidbits of not so funny schtick in between important commentary aside, Maher talking about Biden bit*h slapping her in the upcoming debates makes me hopeful that there just might be a chance to her to actually put her foot up her own a*s in public. I can only hope. In the mean time, keep up the great work, Dan. We need to get Savage his own show!
37
Abstinence 'education'? Speaking as one who went through it, I can say firsthand what a load of crap it was. How can they think that a bunch of horny teenagers are going to keep it in their pants just cause a teacher (in a public school, mind you) tries telling you you'll go to hell for it? I had some great sex in high school, and the only reason I'm childless still is because my parents talked to me about it REALISTICALLY-presented it as a choice between the pill and progeny. Maybe if other girls had had similar information given to them, fewer of my classmates would have gotten knocked up so young. When will people like Palin and Bush figure out that abstinence only education flies in the face of human nature? Should we call this new generation of illegitimate children the Bush-Boomers?
38
This is by far the biggest of the farkups so far by the RNC, besides getting the wrong Walter Reed on the green screen, that is. The more I age the more politico I become :)
40
I'm a little weirded out that you didn't mention the other problems that might be going on under the surface with that guy... the one who's dating someone whose Parents are younger than him.. I think that's a huge red flag 90% of the time. Don't you think that it would be a really big mistake for this "smart kid" to get so deeply involved with a very older man who wants to, essentially, treat him like a child that he also fucks? Away from contact with his entire family support system? I think you really missed the point there.
41
"Excuse me, but if abstinence education can't keep the daughter of the evangelical governor of Alaska off the cock, what hope is there for the daughters—and some of the sons—of average Americans?"
In addition to your always poignant and relevant comments, thank you for your commentary at the end of the response to this letter by the way, this particular quotation made me laugh for 15 minutes. Wait -make that 16 minutes, because I'm still laughing, and anticipate I will be all day long. You have such a way with words! I love you Dan Savage!
In addition to your always poignant and relevant comments, thank you for your commentary at the end of the response to this letter by the way, this particular quotation made me laugh for 15 minutes. Wait -make that 16 minutes, because I'm still laughing, and anticipate I will be all day long. You have such a way with words! I love you Dan Savage!
42
The thing to keep in mind about intergenerational relationships is that people grow up. The 17 year old that is imagining a life partner may be surprised by what happens when they reach 21.
43
Can I please copy and paste this Palin rant on the RNC website?!?!?
PRETTY PLEASE?!?!?
-----------------
curlykerry, it's easier to ask forgiveness than to ask permission. DO IT. And take out full-page ads displaying Dan's commentary in conservative rags like the Washington Times, the St. Paul Pioneer-Press, and the San Diego Union-Tribune. Over here, Dan's just preaching to the choir.
PRETTY PLEASE?!?!?
-----------------
curlykerry, it's easier to ask forgiveness than to ask permission. DO IT. And take out full-page ads displaying Dan's commentary in conservative rags like the Washington Times, the St. Paul Pioneer-Press, and the San Diego Union-Tribune. Over here, Dan's just preaching to the choir.
46
Certainly in a sex advise column, your comments are relevant, but fiscal policy trumps sex ed policy. Obama's intention to raise income taxes, capital gains taxes, dividend taxes, death taxes, social security taxes, etc. are trump any concern over sex ed policy.
47
I live in Alaska, and it really scares me to see Sarah Palin as a Vice Presidential candidate. If you haven't read it already, you should google Anne Killkenny's letter about Sarah Palin. She knows her personally from living out in Wasilla, and it is a very interesting read. It also makes her candidacy a bit more terrifying.
49
1) That MySpace page is one of the multiple fakes that's gone up under the name "Levi Johnston" in the last week.
2) In fairness to Palin, her idea of "explicit" sex education -- the kind she opposes -- is something that goes beyond just discussing contraception. She has said that she is pro-contraception.
2) In fairness to Palin, her idea of "explicit" sex education -- the kind she opposes -- is something that goes beyond just discussing contraception. She has said that she is pro-contraception.
51
Hi Dan -
Although Ms. Palin is obviously personally against abortion, she has done nothing in her career, beyond making her own views known, to promote this.
Also, she supports teaching abstinence ALONG WITH normal sex-ed. (Wasn't personally ready for sex until way after high school, wish I'd gotten some support in the idea that that was O.K.)
Finally, Palin vetoed a bill that would have denied benefits to same sex partners in Alaska. She did this against the wishes of her base and said that she did it because the bill was unconstitutional. I'm just happy she follows the constitution.
You can read more about various Palin rumors (book banning lists, etc.) here: http://explorations.chasrmartin.com/2008/09/06/palin-rumors/
Although Ms. Palin is obviously personally against abortion, she has done nothing in her career, beyond making her own views known, to promote this.
Also, she supports teaching abstinence ALONG WITH normal sex-ed. (Wasn't personally ready for sex until way after high school, wish I'd gotten some support in the idea that that was O.K.)
Finally, Palin vetoed a bill that would have denied benefits to same sex partners in Alaska. She did this against the wishes of her base and said that she did it because the bill was unconstitutional. I'm just happy she follows the constitution.
You can read more about various Palin rumors (book banning lists, etc.) here: http://explorations.chasrmartin.com/2008/09/06/palin-rumors/
52
I'd have a lot more respect for Sarah Palin if she admitted abstinence only education does not work. But the fact that the evidence is right in front of her and will be for the next eighteen years and she still advocates for it?
54
Wtf? If you're going to use a letter for your actual column, don't post it on Slog like, 4 days earlier! Lazy fuck. Maybe you can compile them all into a book and write a one-page intro. What a hard worker you are.
55
Is our kids abstaining? Absolutely not. But that's ok for the GOP - they don't really want them to. The more young people who become parents before they have a worldview that expands past their own small town, the better. The more young people who have to take sh*t jobs in order to pay the rent or the child support payment, the better because it means they don't have time to see what their government is doing to them.
56
I HEART Dan Savage!
To those of you who complain about the content of his blog or column: Go write your own!
To those of you who complain about the content of his blog or column: Go write your own!
57
A few things...
I went to a parochial high school where there was only abstinence-until-marriage education, and I never once discussed contraception with my parents or any other adults. And yet I knew to use condoms and get my ass on the pill once I started having sex (and I had a lot of it, with multiple different partners). I'm pregnant now, at the age of 20, only because the contraception I was using (birth control pills) failed. So perhaps instead of putting all the blame on the people who aren't educating kids about contraception, etc... and put some of it on the irresponsible assholes who don't think to look for a way to stop themselves from getting pregnant when they've been hearing for years "if you have sex, you will get pregnant"? And I do mean that boys and girls are equally responsible for contraception, since they are equally responsible for any child they bring into the world.
Also, "shortly before Bristol and Levi were paraded before cheering throngs at the Republican National Convention, the Palins asked the media to respect their daughter's privacy". Dan, are you suggesting that all pregnant teenagers should be locked up and hidden away for the entire length of their pregnancy? She has a right to her privacy AND to go out and celebrate at the RNC with the rest of her family.
P.S. Can you please stop with the columns with one letter and then a political rant? You have Democrat and Republican readers, and most of us are here to read sex advice, not your feelings on every political event that you find relevant. Save it for the Slog please.
I went to a parochial high school where there was only abstinence-until-marriage education, and I never once discussed contraception with my parents or any other adults. And yet I knew to use condoms and get my ass on the pill once I started having sex (and I had a lot of it, with multiple different partners). I'm pregnant now, at the age of 20, only because the contraception I was using (birth control pills) failed. So perhaps instead of putting all the blame on the people who aren't educating kids about contraception, etc... and put some of it on the irresponsible assholes who don't think to look for a way to stop themselves from getting pregnant when they've been hearing for years "if you have sex, you will get pregnant"? And I do mean that boys and girls are equally responsible for contraception, since they are equally responsible for any child they bring into the world.
Also, "shortly before Bristol and Levi were paraded before cheering throngs at the Republican National Convention, the Palins asked the media to respect their daughter's privacy". Dan, are you suggesting that all pregnant teenagers should be locked up and hidden away for the entire length of their pregnancy? She has a right to her privacy AND to go out and celebrate at the RNC with the rest of her family.
P.S. Can you please stop with the columns with one letter and then a political rant? You have Democrat and Republican readers, and most of us are here to read sex advice, not your feelings on every political event that you find relevant. Save it for the Slog please.
58
I'm doubting he is actually the Dad, there aren't that many girls in AK. and frankly I'm guessing he was just Mister "Most Likely"
59
6 weeks until the general election. I think I'll give Dan the benefit of being able to write political commenatary in his article for the next few weeks.
There are many themes in the election (roe vs. wade, same sex marriage, civil liberties, etc) that have a direct and indirect impact on future Savage Love articles.
Keep up the great work Dan! BTW: Thought you were great on Real Time last week...as usual!
There are many themes in the election (roe vs. wade, same sex marriage, civil liberties, etc) that have a direct and indirect impact on future Savage Love articles.
Keep up the great work Dan! BTW: Thought you were great on Real Time last week...as usual!
60
Dan - I think you're confused. I'm sure that the choice Bristol was given was not between having an abortion or having the baby, but between keeping the baby or giving it up for adoption.
61
RE: Palin & abstinance-only sex education policy. Not only does it beg the question, "is our children abstaining?", but Gov. Palin's situation clearly points out that for kids who buck the education and don't abstain, also clearly don't have valubal information on how to prevent pregnancy (don't even get me started on disease). I mostly agree that family members' lives should be kept basically private, however I'm really hopping mad/frustrated at this crazy example of the REAL problem with abstinance-only sex (non)education! Screaming HELLO!!! over here in Seattle.
62
Somehow, I have doubts that Bristol Palin's "choice" was actually a choice. Even if she didn't want the baby, her mom would have forced her into keeping it. I feel sorry for the girl.
63
*sigh* This is why I read your column. Thank you for being such a cad & raising the issues you do about Palin's ideologies. I shudder with fear when I think about what will happen if the McCain/Palin ticket wins.
64
What really irritates me most about the Bristol Palin story is that if this had been Chelsea Clinton 10 years ago, the same morons cheering on Bristol in St. Paul what have torn Chelsea apart for even having had sex in the first place.
The rank hypocrisy is nauseating.
The rank hypocrisy is nauseating.
67
Who gives a shit about Palin's personal life, much less the private lives of her minor children? Did you raise a fuss when Clinton cheated on his wife? nahh
Care about her platform if you're going to care about anything, leave her fuckin kids out of it. And I say this as a staunch anti-Republican.
P.S. moar goddamn sex letters in a goddamn sex column would be most goddamn appreciated
Care about her platform if you're going to care about anything, leave her fuckin kids out of it. And I say this as a staunch anti-Republican.
P.S. moar goddamn sex letters in a goddamn sex column would be most goddamn appreciated
68
The media has fallen for the McCain trick of an unexpected vice presidential choice and covered almost nothing else for two weeks. Dan is a much needed voice for common sense. While there's a lot of wild stuff out there in blog land, some true and some not, people should be looking for the truth behind the hype so they can make intelligent decisions. Library blogs are alive with the sound of censorship http://www.schoollibraryjournal.com/article/CA6593199.html
and I'm sure there's more about Palin's record we'll want to know. I don't expect she's a Dan Savage fan. Read. THINK. Vote. Read Mr. Obama's book on constitutional law and the future of America, The Audacity of Hope http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/71312726&referer=brief_results Don't make a decision on the future of our country based on sound bites.
and I'm sure there's more about Palin's record we'll want to know. I don't expect she's a Dan Savage fan. Read. THINK. Vote. Read Mr. Obama's book on constitutional law and the future of America, The Audacity of Hope http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/71312726&referer=brief_results Don't make a decision on the future of our country based on sound bites.
69
THANK YOU! This issue is not about privacy--it's about putting someone in power who doesn't have the wit to recognize she's selling a product that not only doesn't work, but does more harm than good.
In general, I am all for respecting the privacy of a candidate's family. But Palin is so obviously inept--she thinks she's qualified to deal with foreign policy because 'you can see Russia' across the Bering Strait! She seems to have spent her tenure as Mayor and Governor trying to get people fired because they thwarted her personal spitefulness (a librarian refusing to ban books, a police chief refusing to fire her soon-to-be-ex brother in law)--does this vindictiveness suggest any statesmanlike quality?
And dear gawdinheaven, we've had enough of these hypocritical neocons trying to control other folks' sex lives when their own are out of control. I feel very sorry for Bristol Palin (particularly since a British reader on another blog has just posted that "a pair of Bristols" is Cockney rhyming slang for tits) but if she and Levi have any sense, they'll rethink getting married. As if they really have a choice...
This issue is relevant. Thank you for not being intimidated by the 'let's all be nicey-nice' BS!
In general, I am all for respecting the privacy of a candidate's family. But Palin is so obviously inept--she thinks she's qualified to deal with foreign policy because 'you can see Russia' across the Bering Strait! She seems to have spent her tenure as Mayor and Governor trying to get people fired because they thwarted her personal spitefulness (a librarian refusing to ban books, a police chief refusing to fire her soon-to-be-ex brother in law)--does this vindictiveness suggest any statesmanlike quality?
And dear gawdinheaven, we've had enough of these hypocritical neocons trying to control other folks' sex lives when their own are out of control. I feel very sorry for Bristol Palin (particularly since a British reader on another blog has just posted that "a pair of Bristols" is Cockney rhyming slang for tits) but if she and Levi have any sense, they'll rethink getting married. As if they really have a choice...
This issue is relevant. Thank you for not being intimidated by the 'let's all be nicey-nice' BS!
70
I like this:
'But this can be a really successful relationship even if, as the song goes, "it's only for now".'
One of the things polyamory taught me is that just because a relationship ends doesn't mean it fails. Like everything else, relationships have lifespans, and accepting the natural end of a relationship gracefully is a good thing, if insanely difficult at times.
Great stuff, Dan.
'But this can be a really successful relationship even if, as the song goes, "it's only for now".'
One of the things polyamory taught me is that just because a relationship ends doesn't mean it fails. Like everything else, relationships have lifespans, and accepting the natural end of a relationship gracefully is a good thing, if insanely difficult at times.
Great stuff, Dan.
72
VERY SUBTLE AS USUAL, ACE... THE STATUTORY RAPE ANGLE CAME THROUGH LOUDLY AND CLEARLY. DON'T CHANGE!
73
ummmm....HELLO....Palin doesn't advocate only teaching abstinence!
And she hasn't done ANYTHING to promote a Pro-Life agenda other than keep Trig. (In fact, some pro-lifers find her disingenuous on the issue).
And she hasn't done ANYTHING to promote a Pro-Life agenda other than keep Trig. (In fact, some pro-lifers find her disingenuous on the issue).
74
The problem with saying that we shouldn't question anything in Palin's family life is that it allows the GOP to continue pushing for policies that will deny women their rights.
For example, Palin decided when her amniotic fluid was leaking, in the 8th month of a Down Syndrome-fetus pregnancy she was carrying at age 44, that she knew what labor felt like, this wasn't labor, and she could get on a flight from Texas to Alaska if she wanted to.
As this excellent letter from an advocacy organization for pregnant women (http://www.alternet.org/reproductivejustice/97457/an_open_letter_to_gov._sarah_palin_on_women's_rights/) points out, there are women all over the country getting prosecuted for making their own decisions about whether they want to give birth at home, use a midwife, refuse a C-section, etc.
I bet Dan can tell you about the legal threats facing a woman who used drugs during her pregnancy and has the misfortune of delivering a stillborn. Homicide charges are just the beginning. In some jurisdictions, if I were giving legal advice to a drug user who had gotten pregnant, I'd tell her she'd better abort -- even if she wanted to finish the pregnancy -- to avoid prosecution for having mistreated the fetus.
But if you believe that a fetus is a legal person with rights that supersede the liberty of the woman carrying it, then of course you prosecute women for failing to live up to your standards for caring for the fetus.
For example, Palin decided when her amniotic fluid was leaking, in the 8th month of a Down Syndrome-fetus pregnancy she was carrying at age 44, that she knew what labor felt like, this wasn't labor, and she could get on a flight from Texas to Alaska if she wanted to.
As this excellent letter from an advocacy organization for pregnant women (http://www.alternet.org/reproductivejustice/97457/an_open_letter_to_gov._sarah_palin_on_women's_rights/) points out, there are women all over the country getting prosecuted for making their own decisions about whether they want to give birth at home, use a midwife, refuse a C-section, etc.
I bet Dan can tell you about the legal threats facing a woman who used drugs during her pregnancy and has the misfortune of delivering a stillborn. Homicide charges are just the beginning. In some jurisdictions, if I were giving legal advice to a drug user who had gotten pregnant, I'd tell her she'd better abort -- even if she wanted to finish the pregnancy -- to avoid prosecution for having mistreated the fetus.
But if you believe that a fetus is a legal person with rights that supersede the liberty of the woman carrying it, then of course you prosecute women for failing to live up to your standards for caring for the fetus.
75
Dan, This Palin "stuff" is CRAZY !
Anyway love your colum, and look forward to a new one each week.
Anyway love your colum, and look forward to a new one each week.
77
I am surprised that your "between adults" comments in this last post didn't include the importance of not taking advantage of the age differential. people in their 20s have more than a lot of growing up to do and every year is a whole shift in outlook- esp. when in school and continuously thinking/learning.
78
Dan, don't forget that Sarah Palin herself, Ms. Abstinence-Only Education, had to get married when she was 24 because she got knocked up herself. Check out the records. Her son was born 7.5 months after the sudden elopement.
79
Let us pause and imagine the tenor of the debate from the Repugnicans if it were Obama's daughter who was pregnant. Yeah, think about it.
80
No one would give a flying fuck if Obama's daughter were pregnant, because he's a man, and therefore not responsible for his daughters. No one's questioning if he can be a father and the president, and yet everyone wants to know how she can be a mother and be vice president. Considering how liberal you Democrats claim to be, you sure are doing your best to discredit Palin based on the fact that she's a woman.
81
What do you expect from someone who names her kids after hunting gear? I came across this ridiculously funny link that tells you what your name would be if Sarah Palin were your mom: http://www.personal-space.com/palin/
83
Dan,
The Sarah thing is not funny. She's the worst possible combination of Bush & Cheney a charming, double-faced, incompetent radical. The only improvement is that, unlike Cheney, she CAN shoot straight.
Time to do for "palin" what you did for "santorum"!
The Sarah thing is not funny. She's the worst possible combination of Bush & Cheney a charming, double-faced, incompetent radical. The only improvement is that, unlike Cheney, she CAN shoot straight.
Time to do for "palin" what you did for "santorum"!
84
Dan,
Love your column, and haven't missed one since I started reading in 1994.
Just wanted to let you know, you used the phrase "begs the question" incorrectly. It doesn't mean "invites the question" as you used it. I see it all the time, and that's why someone created this website:
http://begthequestion.info/
Now that I've pointed it out, you'll start noticing it constantly in the media and it will annoy the sh*t out of you!
Love your column, and haven't missed one since I started reading in 1994.
Just wanted to let you know, you used the phrase "begs the question" incorrectly. It doesn't mean "invites the question" as you used it. I see it all the time, and that's why someone created this website:
http://begthequestion.info/
Now that I've pointed it out, you'll start noticing it constantly in the media and it will annoy the sh*t out of you!
85
I hate to say this Dan, but you're slipping. Like some other commenters have stated, one recycled letter and a rant does not make a column. This isn't the first time you've done it either. You must have some very forgiving bosses to get away with this.
86
Dan,
I am waiting for your comments on the John Edwards affair. I feel that he is being unfairly criticized in the media. What he did might be wrong (depending on whether when and how he informed his wife about it), but I do not see why his political future should have anything to do with this. Any comments?
I am waiting for your comments on the John Edwards affair. I feel that he is being unfairly criticized in the media. What he did might be wrong (depending on whether when and how he informed his wife about it), but I do not see why his political future should have anything to do with this. Any comments?
89
Caribou Barbie scares the living hell out of me-Happily,a wide swath of Montanans are NOT diggin' Palin- the conservatives are disgusted by her placement of ambition over the needs of her large and presently beset family and Montana's right wing is not all that thrilled with the idea of a person who would even ASK a librarian about her possible reaction to being told to remove books from a public library- This place is composed largely of REAL conservatives- people who think that parenting should be done by parents, not commitees and that such decisions are the business of the family, not the government.
General consensus on the matter of sex ed is that schools should teach facts- all of them- and families should teach values like abstinence, self respect, restraint and a proper fear of consequences.
Montana's sportsmen are growing less entertained by the minute as it becomes clear that she's not a responsible steward- They love that she hunts, and are concerned about the future of gun ownership, but are starting to get a clue that it's not a love or respect for nature that fuels her enthusiasm... the shooting wolves from helicopters thing is not playing well here, nor are her lawsuit over the inclusion of polar bears on the endangered species list or her stand on development of the Pebble mine- a project that would, in a very few years kill off the largest Sockeye salmon run in the world.
Everyone is pretty much amazed by the waffling on various earmarks, like the infamous "Bridge to Nowhere", and her use of taxpayer money to fund ads for and against various Alaskan ballot measures.
As for me, and most of my tribe of disillusioned liberals, we just hate her- her attitude, her environmental record, her desire to see women stripped of reproductive rights, all of it.... Besides the reasons above, I feel that her exposing her daughter to the international spotlight at this hard and chaotic moment in the girl's life reveals a lust for power that is quite frightening, her snide remarks about community action are a slap in the face to all of us who give time and energy to the goal of improving our communities, preserving historic and natural resources, expanding social resources and providing options for our children... and don't get me started about a parent who takes on such a demanding and draining challenge with an infant who has special needs and 2 other young children still at home- Gender is not the issue for me, I'd be just as dismayed by a father adding to his family's burdens under these circumstances....
More...
General consensus on the matter of sex ed is that schools should teach facts- all of them- and families should teach values like abstinence, self respect, restraint and a proper fear of consequences.
Montana's sportsmen are growing less entertained by the minute as it becomes clear that she's not a responsible steward- They love that she hunts, and are concerned about the future of gun ownership, but are starting to get a clue that it's not a love or respect for nature that fuels her enthusiasm... the shooting wolves from helicopters thing is not playing well here, nor are her lawsuit over the inclusion of polar bears on the endangered species list or her stand on development of the Pebble mine- a project that would, in a very few years kill off the largest Sockeye salmon run in the world.
Everyone is pretty much amazed by the waffling on various earmarks, like the infamous "Bridge to Nowhere", and her use of taxpayer money to fund ads for and against various Alaskan ballot measures.
As for me, and most of my tribe of disillusioned liberals, we just hate her- her attitude, her environmental record, her desire to see women stripped of reproductive rights, all of it.... Besides the reasons above, I feel that her exposing her daughter to the international spotlight at this hard and chaotic moment in the girl's life reveals a lust for power that is quite frightening, her snide remarks about community action are a slap in the face to all of us who give time and energy to the goal of improving our communities, preserving historic and natural resources, expanding social resources and providing options for our children... and don't get me started about a parent who takes on such a demanding and draining challenge with an infant who has special needs and 2 other young children still at home- Gender is not the issue for me, I'd be just as dismayed by a father adding to his family's burdens under these circumstances....
90
your appearance on Bill Maher was my first exposure to the Savage wit.....must say, i like what i see....or is it "like what i heard"
since i'm older and not so much wiser i've decided to bookmark your ass....such an honor, if i may say so myself.
since i'm older and not so much wiser i've decided to bookmark your ass....such an honor, if i may say so myself.
91
Why should Bristol Palin have abstained when her mom didn't? Granted she wasn't a teen but still, she was knocked up with Track (yeah, what a name) before she got married.
92
OK,Dan, we enjoy your GOP-bashing. But remember that the Democrats are as bad as the Republicans when it comes to personal freedom. (Did we forget that all senators except one voted for the Patriot Act?)
You could do a favor to your readers by explaining that there are other candidates in the race for president. These include Libertarian Bob Barr, Green Cynthia McKinney, and independent Ralph Nader.
However, I understand that mentioning third party candidates might get you discredited by your publishers. It is my understanding that covering alternative candidates (as opposed to alternative forms of sex) is a major taboo of the mainstream media.
You could do a favor to your readers by explaining that there are other candidates in the race for president. These include Libertarian Bob Barr, Green Cynthia McKinney, and independent Ralph Nader.
However, I understand that mentioning third party candidates might get you discredited by your publishers. It is my understanding that covering alternative candidates (as opposed to alternative forms of sex) is a major taboo of the mainstream media.
93
I have reason to believe that Sarah Palin now has Levi's balls under her pillow. Who will help him?
94
Dan - found you semi-recently through Real Time, and the more I read the more I recognize the true excellence of what you're doing. I'm glad that you're visible in the media; yours is a voice that my friends and I always look forward to hearing. Thanks.
95
"Speaking of hot teenagers and asshole parents and vows that you may come to regret..."
....then you start talking about Palin, haha!!! That was a classic... I really think the Palin pick is politically motivated. Someone told me before that most of the time, the most religious persons are the ones who'll screw you over. And sadly, I've been unfortunate to experience that... So yeah, her being "religious" is, for me, full of crap.
....then you start talking about Palin, haha!!! That was a classic... I really think the Palin pick is politically motivated. Someone told me before that most of the time, the most religious persons are the ones who'll screw you over. And sadly, I've been unfortunate to experience that... So yeah, her being "religious" is, for me, full of crap.
96
Dan, on the specific advice rendered to Not the Bad Guy, thanks very much. I'm in a similar situation, sans the bondage and angry parents. My new boyfriend hails from your city while I live in NY. We're getting very serious, and I am indeed very concerned that the age difference will ultimately do us in. And so thanks for the reminder, I will tread lightly and remember your other advice, the Boy Scout Motto, leave him better off than he was.
97
Hey! What happened to the advice of "just lie to the folks until you're out of school and on your own?"
98
Loved all your comments on Palin. One other thing, she was knocked up when she got married, so it's very much like mother, like daughter. I guess she didn't learn abstinence either.
99
Dan,
Thank you.
Normally I would say that Bristol's pregnancy is off-limits, like Obama did. However, I think it is relevant to the election when the politician is so actively against sex ed, birth control and abortion.
Keep up the good work.
Thank you.
Normally I would say that Bristol's pregnancy is off-limits, like Obama did. However, I think it is relevant to the election when the politician is so actively against sex ed, birth control and abortion.
Keep up the good work.
100
Of course you do realize that Alaska is actually number one in the availability of birth control and number one in public funding. Yeah. Number 1. Delaware is 11th and 21st. Family planning clinics serve 81% of all women in need, compared to 50% in Delaware. Alaska has the 30th highest teen pregnancy rate in the nation. Delaware has the 11th. There are 9 abortion providers in the state, same as Delaware. Both states have parental consent laws, and while Alaska has no mandatory waiting period, Delaware does. Alaska has no post-viability abortion bans, Delaware does.
Also state law in AK entirely agnostic on birth control education. Nearly all of the schools teach both birth control methods and abstinence education. I have no idea what Palin tells her daughter, it might very well be bat-shit insane, but actual state policy certainly hasn't been affected by either her or her Republican predecessor.
I'm just saying...
I think bad stuff we didn't already know about like, "The Pill Kills" for instance, is really important to know about, but can't we get off the obvious political angrytrain and start talking about sex and relationships again. I miss those days...
Also state law in AK entirely agnostic on birth control education. Nearly all of the schools teach both birth control methods and abstinence education. I have no idea what Palin tells her daughter, it might very well be bat-shit insane, but actual state policy certainly hasn't been affected by either her or her Republican predecessor.
I'm just saying...
I think bad stuff we didn't already know about like, "The Pill Kills" for instance, is really important to know about, but can't we get off the obvious political angrytrain and start talking about sex and relationships again. I miss those days...
101
There is something that bothers me about this question and I thought you might mention it too. NTBG claims that he is in love and is willing to have his boyfriend move in. But the letter made it sound like he was also looking for any excuse to get out of that type of doing so. Does he really think it would be a better idea to leave the boy with his "asshole" parents instead of providing a healthy environment? And, since he has been having sex with the kid since he was still in his teens, did he really think the age of consent was 21? Something doesn't add up. To me the letter could have read, "I'm a great guy and "want" to do the right thing. But please tell me I'm not allowed."
102
when I was 19 I dated a guy tha was 11 years older than me. He looked after me and helped me be the man I am today. I am grateful to have met him and wish I wasnt such a young dumbass that I was at the end of that relationship.
103
For Dan and the husband, who complained that wife doesn't like oral sex. I don't like it either. My nerves are extremely sensitive and it's just uncomfortably strong for me. A quick kiss "resonates" for minutes but a lick is uncomfortable to painful.
When I'm turned off, I am also tickly, but when I am turned on, my entire body is an erogenous zone. I have come from my ears, nipples, legs etc.
Rather than forcing oral sex, I think the husband should see how erogenous his wife is and see whether she is super-sensitive like me. In other words: explore her body, lick her nipples for minutes. Push her body where it goes.
Women are amazing creatures, use your imagination and broaden your mind.
When I'm turned off, I am also tickly, but when I am turned on, my entire body is an erogenous zone. I have come from my ears, nipples, legs etc.
Rather than forcing oral sex, I think the husband should see how erogenous his wife is and see whether she is super-sensitive like me. In other words: explore her body, lick her nipples for minutes. Push her body where it goes.
Women are amazing creatures, use your imagination and broaden your mind.
105
You are most certainly not a cad for writing this at all!! Thank you for continuing to show that we need to question the hypocricies of polititians BEFORE they enter office!
Thanks again from us neighbours to the north.
Peace, and Savage Love :)
Thanks again from us neighbours to the north.
Peace, and Savage Love :)
107
Marie's post: "What do you mean, "our daughters and some of our sons"? Do you think that all teenage girls have teenage sex but only some teenage boys? Seriously, you should switch your brain on when you're editing."
What Dan actually wrote: "Excuse me, but if abstinence education can't keep the daughter of the evangelical governor of Alaska off the cock, what hope is there for the daughters—and some of the sons—of average Americans?"
Marie, he said off the cock. That doesn't mean all sex, that means girls and boys who like penis. Since not all boys are gay, Dan isn't trying to oppress you, he's saying that abstinence education isn't going to keep girls and gay boys from having sex. Obviously straight boys would be included as those who abstinence education won't work for, but he was specifically referring to teenagers into cock.
Maybe you should "turn your brain on". Idiot.
What Dan actually wrote: "Excuse me, but if abstinence education can't keep the daughter of the evangelical governor of Alaska off the cock, what hope is there for the daughters—and some of the sons—of average Americans?"
Marie, he said off the cock. That doesn't mean all sex, that means girls and boys who like penis. Since not all boys are gay, Dan isn't trying to oppress you, he's saying that abstinence education isn't going to keep girls and gay boys from having sex. Obviously straight boys would be included as those who abstinence education won't work for, but he was specifically referring to teenagers into cock.
Maybe you should "turn your brain on". Idiot.
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