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Still Spreading

February 24, 2011

I am 50 and a lesbian. I have had a pretty active sex life for the last 30 years. For the last three years, I've been with a woman I love very much. We have amazing sexual chemistry—by far the best I have experienced.

For the last two years, I have noticed that my clitoris is getting bigger. Not trans-man-takes-testosterone big, but substantially bigger than it has ever been. I thought it was due to a big increase in sexual excitement, but it soon became clear that the enlargement was a permanent thing. It gets much more erect than it used to and often throbs or twitches after I come.

No one's complaining. I am enjoying the heightened sexual arousal, and my GGG girlfriend is thrilled. But why/how is this happening? Could it get even bigger? And why now? I hit menopause seven years ago, so it's not some weird hormone surge. Could our sexual connection have caused this all by itself? I don't really want to ask my gynecologist, though I did notice her checking out my equipment with wide eyes at my last checkup.

Stiffie Needs A Zipcode

"I always like to hear from people who are satisfied with their sex lives and relationships," says author, sex researcher, vulva-puppeteer, and archrival sex-advice columnist Debby Herbenick, and I have to agree. Most of our mail comes from people who are unhappy with their sex lives and/or dissatisfied with their relationships. It's always nice to hear from folks who are having fun. What's not so nice is that we sometimes have to tell happy-and-satisfied folks that something may be seriously wrong.

"I would strongly encourage her to ask her gynecologist about her enlarged clitoris," says Herbenick. "She should be very clear about when she first noticed this and roughly how much she thinks it's increased in size. She needs her doctor to examine her clit and rule out various medical conditions that could cause hormonal problems. Sometimes these are benign health conditions; unfortunately, sometimes they include vulvar cancers, ovarian cancers, and adrenal cancers that, for example, may present with symptoms including an enlarged clitoris."

Some women believe their clitorises "grew" after menopause, but that's not usually the case. When estrogen levels drop during menopause, other parts of the vulva—such as the labia—can become flatter or less prominent, which can in turn make the clitoris appear bigger. "However, she's been in menopause for a long time," says Herbenick, "and it sounds like the clitoral change happened well into menopause." And amazing sex does not supersize clits: "High levels of arousal usually result in only a temporary swelling of the clitoris," says Herbenick.

So make another appointment to see your doctor, SNAZ, "and keep asking questions until she's sure that medical conditions, such as cancers, have been ruled out," urges Herbenick. And if your gynecologist doesn't want to discuss your megaclit or was too stupid to spot what could be a symptom of common lady-parts cancers (!), time to get a new gynecologist.

My husband is beautiful, awesome, etc. Unfortunately, his dick is small. It wasn't so bad our first few years together; he knows how to work what he's got. But then I had a baby, and I tore. A few days later, my stitches tore. At my six-week checkup, I asked why I couldn't get restitched and the doctor told me, "Vaginas are very forgiving." But a year later, Kegels aren't helping and both of us are having trouble getting off.

I want to get a vaginoplasty to fit him, but I'll have to wait till we've saved up enough money to pay for it. Please, Dan, tell me how to have hotter sex with a small dick and a shredded kitty.

Unforgiving

"Many women who have had multiple or traumatic births—and it sounds like she had a good deal of tearing—have some degree of prolapse," says Herbenick. (A uterine prolapse, says the Wiki, "occurs when the female pelvic organs fall from their normal position, into or through the vagina.") "If she did have prolapse," says Herbenick, "she may be a candidate for anterior or posterior vaginal wall repair, which is quite similar to vaginal 'rejuvenation' surgeries, and then insurance may cover the surgery.

"Some people will wildly disagree with me and say that women shouldn't have surgery 'to please their man,' but I don't see that here," Herbenick adds. "I see two people who are married and want better sex, and she may have experienced some physical changes that have affected that. And there are ways to fix it."

Debby Herbenick is the associate director of the Center for Sexual Health Promotion at Indiana University and the author of Because It Feels Good: A Woman's Guide to Sexual Pleasure and Satisfaction, a book that I strongly recommend even though Debby once attacked me with a vulva puppet in a room full of people.


I live in Ann Arbor, Michigan. Grange, a local restaurant, has a cocktail called "GGGinger." Is it possible for a cocktail to be GGG? And how does it feel to have inspired one?

Curious Cocktail Connection

A cocktail can't be GGG, CCC, but a couple of cocktails—enough to take the edge off inhibitions, not so much to make consent unpossible—can induce GGG. And, I'm saddened to report, the GGGinger's Gs refer to three of the gin-based cocktail's ingredients—ginger beer, candied ginger, and ginger syrup—and not to the Savage Love meme "good, giving, and game." Still, Grange co-owner Brandon Johns is confident that his GGGingers have inspired GGG behavior all over Ann Arbor. "It's been our most popular drink since we opened," says Johns, "so it must be doing something right.We also do pitchers of them, and when a couple shares one of those—let's just say that something good is bound to come of that."

And in other, more successful Savage Love memes... Former US senator and current presidential candidolt Rick Santorum "opened up" to Roll Call last week about his "longtime Google problem," aka "the frothy mixture of lube and fecal matter that is sometimes the by-product of anal sex" and always the number-one search result when you Google the former senator's last name.

"It's one guy," Santorum told Roll Call. "You know who it is... It's unfortunate that we have someone who obviously has some issues."

I do have issues—I have lots of issues—but I take particular issue with politicians who compare loving, stable same-sex relationships to "man on dog" sex, as Santorum has done, or who would ban same-sex marriage and adoptions by same-sex couples, as Santorum has promised to do if he gets elected president. But the lowercase s santorum campaign wasn't "one guy." A lot of people were involved—from the Savage Love reader who first suggested that we redefine his name to all the folks who've written about it over the years (thanks, Roll Call!)—just like a lot of people were involved in turning Rick Santorum out of office in 2006, an election he lost by an 18-point santorumslide.

The website that's still giving Rick Santorum fits—www.spreadingsantorum.com—hasn't been updated since 2004. But we will be relaunching the site in the next few weeks. Stay tuned!


Find the Savage Lovecast (my weekly podcast) every Tuesday at thestranger.com/savage.

mail@savagelove.net

 

Comments (229) RSS

Oldest First Unregistered On Registered On Add a comment
1
Dan Savage for president!!!
Posted by bodhirungus on February 22, 2011 at 4:41 PM · Report this
STS 2
Santorum is just mad because he keeps getting his name caught between his teeth, thus tying his public caricature and his pathetically closeted intern couch time together..
Posted by STS on February 22, 2011 at 4:50 PM · Report this
3
Am I missing something, or does the reply to Unforgiving not answer her question? It seems like Unforgiving was saying "I want surgery to fix this, but until I can afford the surgery, what else can I try?" and the reply was "Hey, surgery might be able to fix that."
Posted by SkyHuxley on February 22, 2011 at 4:54 PM · Report this
4
@3 Oh, never mind, I see now that the point was that she could get it covered by her insurance. So the reply wasn't entirely unhelpful, but still, how about giving her some non-surgical suggestions too?
Posted by SkyHuxley on February 22, 2011 at 4:56 PM · Report this
despicable me 5
Relaunching http://www.spreadingsantorum.com/?

That sounds FAB-U-LOUS! I can't wait!
Posted by despicable me on February 22, 2011 at 4:58 PM · Report this
Stiny 6
Geez, loads of things can cause virilization in a post-menopausal woman, and NONE of them are good. My gut clenched when I read that letter. I hope that lady is ok and that whatever the cause, they catch it in time to fix it.
Posted by Stiny on February 22, 2011 at 5:10 PM · Report this
7
Doctors aren't eager to restitch things down there after the birth. The mess from my first birth didn't get fixed until my second kid was born. So don't believe your doctor that vaginas fix themselves. I like Herbenick's advice to look into surgery again.

But, fingers & tongues also work on vaginas, and oral sex works for many penises, and anal can be a lot more fun for the bottom if the top has a relatively small penis. So until you get that surgery, you do have many options...

Posted by EricaP on February 22, 2011 at 5:30 PM · Report this
8
Actually I just checked and Ricky-poo is actually Third on the list, the Spreading Santorum site is #1, but the wiki article is #2.
Posted by Blue Dragon on February 22, 2011 at 5:58 PM · Report this
9
Okay, what's a vulva puppet?
Posted by amandariffic on February 22, 2011 at 6:03 PM · Report this
10
EricaP, [cont'd]

I may be a jerk, but I stand by what I wrote. If you've made this test 11 x and always lost, either there's something wrong with you, or essentially all guys are assholes. If that's so, what's the point?

You don't get 11 tails without something being wrong. Who knows? Maybe you're just a lousy judge of men, but that too would be something wrong with you, right?

I exhort men to take charge during sex. But you're clearly unhappy- don't be afraid to give some guidance. Put his hand on your twat, put your breast to his mouth. You'll get what you want.

Dan's column is so great this week! Maybe we can imagine you with a prolapsed vag.

As for anal, I personally have never wanted it for a "tighter hole." I've wanted it more for a further conquest, another portal penetrated, another surrender. I always feel differently when I see a woman in who's ass my dick has been. It's different than simply a woman fucked.
Posted by Hunter78 on February 22, 2011 at 6:14 PM · Report this
echizen_kurage 11
Hunter78,

Go chug some santorum, you half-witted misogynistic asshat.
Posted by echizen_kurage on February 22, 2011 at 6:53 PM · Report this
12
His name probably too common to have has much fun with, but I would love to see Wisconsin governor Scott Walker's name be redefined, or at least associated with some new definition. Sarah Palin brought us the "Anchorage Steamer," for example.
Posted by Eric in Wisconsin on February 22, 2011 at 6:56 PM · Report this
13
Thanks, echizen_kurage. I have great sex with my husband, so it's easy to ignore H78's insults. But I fear for other women, intimidated into disbelieving their own experiences. A woman who speaks out honestly about her sexual experiences is told there must be something wrong with her, if she didn't get satisfied by all that dick. Next thing you know, uppity women might refuse to "surrender" to the almighty dick. What a tool.
Posted by EricaP on February 22, 2011 at 7:05 PM · Report this
14
WTF? SNAZ can't talk to her gynocologist about her twat? Her GYNOCOLOGIST?? What the hell are her exams like, anyway? "Hi, SNAZ, could you spread a little more?" "Well, hello, doctor. Nice shoes you are wearing, can we talk about the upcoming election?"

Really, SNAZ - grow a pair to go with that clit and talk to your doctor.

And I hope it all turns out OK.
Posted by adifferentdan on February 22, 2011 at 7:29 PM · Report this
saxfanatic 15
"...an election he lost by an 18-point santorumslide."

Santorumslide? Pure gold!
Posted by saxfanatic on February 22, 2011 at 7:30 PM · Report this
16
Post #10 has me convinced: no anal ever. Good to have that settled.
Posted by lilechka on February 22, 2011 at 8:33 PM · Report this
Allyson 17
Santorum is a has - been who is hinting at a presidential run in a desperate hope of being picked up as VP, or at least as a FOX talking head.
Little chance of the former, though the latter is a sad possiblity. But I eagerly await the relaunch of the only Santorum website worth visiting...
Posted by Allyson on February 22, 2011 at 8:53 PM · Report this
18
@ 10 - One thing you've made clear for all of us: you most definitely are an even worse lay than those EricaP talks about.

Posted by Ricardo on February 22, 2011 at 9:59 PM · Report this
19
@Unforgiving
In the mean time, you might want to try anal sex for a tighter fit for your hubby, and a larger toy for yourself. If you are new to anal sex, work up slowly. You could even try both at the same time. The combination worked well with my last partner!
Posted by aadaa on February 22, 2011 at 10:45 PM · Report this
memorex 20
Let all hope that www.spreadingsantorum.com keeps him from getting anywhere close to public office again.
Posted by memorex on February 23, 2011 at 12:45 AM · Report this
memorex 21
Wow! Hunter78 (#10) is a total prick. Let's all hope that someone get's some www.spreadingsantorum.com on his precious dick soon.
Posted by memorex on February 23, 2011 at 12:49 AM · Report this
Kariglitter 22
You know, I'm not a huge tech person, but I hope that with the relaunch of www.spreadingsantorum.com it will become the no. 1 search result not just for "santorum" but also for "rick santorum", "santorum 2012", and other election related search terms. Tech savvy at risk youth, can you make that happen?
Posted by Kariglitter on February 23, 2011 at 2:10 AM · Report this
Rach3l 23
"santorumslide"

ewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww
wwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww
wwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww
wwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww
wwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww
wwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww
Posted by Rach3l on February 23, 2011 at 2:28 AM · Report this
24
@10 Let me guess. You're a level 3 offender, right?
Posted by jenesasquatch on February 23, 2011 at 5:10 AM · Report this
25
I'm starting to think we have to go back to the '90s to find a Savage Love column that actually features interesting letters.
Posted by wayne on February 23, 2011 at 6:11 AM · Report this
26
Hey EricaP and idiot @10, where can we find the beginning of that conversation?
Posted by zina on February 23, 2011 at 7:33 AM · Report this
RandyUSA 27
santorumslide. I like that.
Posted by RandyUSA on February 23, 2011 at 7:38 AM · Report this
28
#16...don't let that douche Hunter turn you off anal....most non-fucktards *love* anal and "respect you even MORE" if you are willing to give it a go. Hell, makes me come like gangbusters ;)
Posted by badgirl on February 23, 2011 at 7:39 AM · Report this
mixy 29
I find it odd that SNAZ's gyno "checked out" her megaclit and didn't say anything to confirm or deny there was a potential problem. Guess SNAZ is going to need to bring it up first.
Posted by mixy on February 23, 2011 at 7:43 AM · Report this
30
@amandariffic, I think this will explain: http://www.mysexprofessor.com/columns/th…
Posted by Jamie in Pittsburgh http://www.facebook.com/home.php#/strawberry.limonade?ref=name on February 23, 2011 at 8:06 AM · Report this
31
Once again we have the ladies lining up to bash the guys.

1. (from the column) "women should not have surgery to please there man." Ahh, now I understand. If you do something to please your man, even if it also pleases you, then you are a whore submitting to nightly rape. Got it. Ladies, do you have any fucking idea how many men would get a dick enlargement if that was available? How about almost ALL of the small dicked guys in the entire world. Wait, they should not do that because it might please the women. Sauce for the goose?

2. The bashers of #10 demonstrating his point. In case you missed it #10 referenced the penultimate (straight) male fantasy of penetrating a woman. He then noted his pleasure in achieving anal penetration was, in part, attributable to the pursuit of tail and "winning' the conquest. These emotional objections are all a part of the feminization of our culture. Anything remotely and uniquely male is castigated, chastised and labeled as deviant, sexist, pervert, rapist.

Imagine how UNOFFENSIVE it would be perceived if a fag had commented how he likes the conquest of male butt and how he never looks at his lover in the same way after he has been inside his ass.

News flash for you feminazis on this board: Since so many of you have never been with a man here are some facts. (Most) Men are turned on by the chase. Men are excited by a challenge. Men are excited by the chance to score by convincing a coy mistress to accede to his desires and yes, men are very excited when they can ease it inside an extra tight space while the women moans to go slow, it is too big....

If y'all would pull the wad out of your panties and get your tongue out of your girlfriends twat you might stop thinking of "normal" male sexual behavior and very legitimate sexual feelings as rape, or oppressing women, or as evidence of the entrenched patriarchy perpetuating the gender dialectic. You would then be better able to deal with your reflexive hatred and jealousy of men and also whatever additional erratic, emotional, clueless reaction you might have.
More...
Posted by Professor on February 23, 2011 at 8:21 AM · Report this
32
@26, it's just last week's Savage Love column, Safety Valve, now up to 302 comments. Troll wanted more attention, that's why he took the unusual step of continuing the insults from that thread over here.
Posted by EricaP on February 23, 2011 at 8:35 AM · Report this
33
Newsflash to the "Professor": I am not bashing guys. I LOOOOOOOOOVVVVVVVVVVVVVVEEEEEEEEE men. I just think Hunter is a misogynistic douche. As are you.

The post where he stated that he "felt differently" about a woman who let him up her ass implyed he felt less of her, like she was a dirty piece to be promptly disposed of. The *very few* men I have granted access to my ass have felt honored, as they knew they have reached a level of trust I have reserved for only a tiny, tiny few (ok, TWO) men in my life. Sexually excited? Of course, but also knew what it meant, and Hunter implied JUST the opposite....instead of being a position of trust and honor, it made him feel his partner was cheap and a whore.
Posted by badgirl on February 23, 2011 at 8:36 AM · Report this
34
@31 - you're the first person to bring up rape on this thread. Projecting much? It came up in last week's SL column when I talked about two guys this year who inserted their dicks in my unlubed ass when I had said specifically that wasn't okay. That fall outside the definition of rape for you too? Just "normal male sexual behavior"?
Posted by EricaP on February 23, 2011 at 8:40 AM · Report this
35
@11 that brand of sex-negative man hating douche feminist isn't really present on this board. Save your vitriol.

And damn, poor Unforgiven. i love dick!! oral sex is oookay, but I would be miserable if dick didn't do it anymore. Makes elective C-sections look mighty attractive.
Posted by Caralain on February 23, 2011 at 8:54 AM · Report this
36
@34, if this has happened with two different guys in one year (I'm not sure if this was a group thing or separate incidents), then that moves things from anomaly to a pattern, and you may seriously want to consider your screening process / signals that you're giving off before/during intercourse. You're right to consider this rape, but the fact that it happened twice to you is extremely striking,..
Posted by freshnycman on February 23, 2011 at 9:43 AM · Report this
37
Did the first letter sound like a fake to anyone else? The imagery, not to mention description of inappropriate behavior by her doc, all scream phony to me...
Posted by SNL on February 23, 2011 at 9:43 AM · Report this
38
I think "stiffy needs a zip code" as a pen name is hilarious! Awesome sense of humor. I'm just sorry that a medical pro. thinks there might be an underlying issue with the recent growth, good luck with that. Remember your sense of humor when you talk with the gyno.
Posted by scorpio of Id. on February 23, 2011 at 9:53 AM · Report this
39
@36 (freshnycman)...

Nice victim-blaming! It's striking (though not surprising) that 2 men thought this was an appropriate thing to do to a woman.
Posted by offfwhite on February 23, 2011 at 10:00 AM · Report this
40
Hope you all caught Steven Colbert's segment about Santorum Monday!
Posted by Tracey on February 23, 2011 at 10:04 AM · Report this
Backyard Bombardier 41
Hunter78, Professor, speaking as a man who has undoubtedly had more pussy in his life than the two of you combined: Shut up and fuck off. The reason women won't have sex with you isn't because they are bitches and feminazis: it is because you are both giant assholes whose fear and loathing of women radiates from you like the stench of flopsweat.

Ladies, on behalf of my gender: sorry about those guys. We think they are pricks too.
Posted by Backyard Bombardier on February 23, 2011 at 10:29 AM · Report this
42
@ Professor Troll --

Penile implants are actually available. You should probably stop trolling and go get one.
Posted by Amanda on February 23, 2011 at 10:45 AM · Report this
Rach3l 43
If your kitty is prolapsed, have anal sex instead. I mean, it's right there. Give it a shot!
Posted by Rach3l on February 23, 2011 at 10:45 AM · Report this
44
@41: please don't think that you have to apologize on behalf of your gender any more than we (ladies) ought to apologize for Sarah Palin and the like.
@31: she specifically says that the woman is NOT getting surgery to please her man! she's just making the point for OTHER women out there that they shouldn't feel pressured to change their vaginas regardless of what a dude says to them. but then makes it clear that that's not what's happening here. sheesh, defensive much?
Posted by SavageLoving on February 23, 2011 at 10:46 AM · Report this
45
Great advice, as usual, Dan. My only criticism is that you were too hard on the gynecologist ("too stupid to spot what could be a symptom of common lady-parts cancers.") The size of clits varies from person to person. Some are naturally larger than others, just like penises. The gynecologist won't remember from year to year just how big a certain patient's clit was. It's the patient's responsibility to bring up any concerns she has, including changes she has noticed.
SNAZ is assuming the doctor was wide-eyed about the size of her clit. But for all we know, that doctor was just doing another routine exam when she suddenly remembered she left the bath water running at home.
Posted by JustAnotherSavageLover on February 23, 2011 at 10:56 AM · Report this
BEG 46
@16 certainly not with ppl who have @10's mindset, that's for sure! Ugh.

Looking forward to the relaunch of spreading santorum. I'll do my part with the link love :)

Posted by BEG http://twitter.com/#!/browneyedgirl65 on February 23, 2011 at 11:08 AM · Report this
47
Obama has decided DOMA is unconstitutional and will recommend it be overturned in addition to stopping defending it in court!

Also, hilariously subversive Colbert last night instructing people to Google-bomb Santorum even more.
Posted by turtlemilk on February 23, 2011 at 11:13 AM · Report this
48
@36 This year was an experiment in trying to find hot sex with strangers who charmed me online. What I found was mostly bad sex. This was covered in last week's SL thread, where I came to the conclusion that, yes, I should change my approach. I'm now focusing on getting to know people in sex-positive social circles (poly, bdsm) so that the guys I sleep with know that they will see me again, socially. I think lack of accountability is a major part of the reason I had so much bad sex.

I'm not so interested by the 2 guys who may have crossed the rape line. (One was "an accident" and the other was a D/s scene with an inexperienced dom who thought he could rely on me safewording if I didn't like him ignoring my stated boundaries. He forgot that he had told me to be quiet. I play edgy games with strangers...I own that and I don't call these incidents rape, myself.) I'm more interested in the 11 out of 11 NSA guys with whom the sex started okay and then got crappy, for me.

I liked badgirl's advice @293 in that thread: "Some of the crappiest ones were downright inconsiderate, but I always got out of there as soon as possible after discovering this." If I had gotten up and left when I stopped having fun, that would have eliminated a lot of time spent enduring bad sex. I liked most of the guys, personally, and I enjoyed the first bit, but I would stick it out to try to get them to orgasm, even after I stopped having fun. They didn't feel that obligation towards me, and I do see that as a difference in how (most) men and women are socialized.
Posted by EricaP on February 23, 2011 at 11:46 AM · Report this
Lulu Lawless 49
@41 Way to go.

For the lady with the shredded kitty (hysterical choice of words!), may I suggest the We Vibe II. It's a u-shaped insertable vibrator for couples. One end stimulates the clit and the other end is inserted for g-spot stimulation. It has the added benefit of making your vag feel tighter. And the vibrations should help both you and your husband get off.
Posted by Lulu Lawless on February 23, 2011 at 11:50 AM · Report this
Delishuss 50
@36 Two incidences do not a pattern make, asshole. Is it that hard for you to imagine that two men might force themselves unwanted on the same woman in one year?
@41 Thank you.
@44 I think we are actually partially responsible for Sarah Palin. It's time for people of every gender to look at the people who are making the rest of us look like assholes and say "Stop it, that's not okay." Kind of like the NALT Christians that Dan's always talking about.
@Hunter & Professor: I take much pleasure and satisfaction in knowing that I can get laid any time I want by a whole host of men who treat me with respect and not like their personal cumbuckets, as you two must do with the few, unfortunate women who have been desperate enough to sleep with you.
Posted by Delishuss on February 23, 2011 at 11:50 AM · Report this
secretagent 51
@SNL - totally smelled a fake. Fakity fake fake. "wide-eyed" gyno? Fake. This is a crossdresser who is fantasizing about how he could have grown a dick from a pussy, as men who cross-dress often do.

@Hunter - until you've fucked ten men, you don't know how many are shitty in bed. I have, she has, and we both say the majority are shitty. As does every other woman I know with double digits under their belt. It does depend on who you're fucking, however - as I said before, NSA guys are not well-known to be generous and talented lovers. If you've only fucked long term boyfriends, your "good" percentage may be higher because you've trained them. And they have a reason to want you to keep coming back.

It super sucks that you were victimized like this, EricaP. That it happened twice in a year may be partially because they were NSA guys. But not necessarily, fresh. Most women report having been sexually assaulted multiple times in their lives - and until you understand just how widespread and common women being touched without permission, ignored about their limits, pressured and yes, raped, you sound like an idiot blaming her for what happened. Let me tell you what probably happened in that man's head and you tell me if it sounds similar to anything your buddies have said: "She's just a slut, man." "She wants it, you can tell." "I did X to her." To her, not with her, notice. "A few drinks will loosen her up" "I got mine" "She said no at first but then she let me". Until men stop seeing sex as a "conquest" and women as "surrendered" these assaults will continue. Sex isn't something you can steal or earn. It's a shared experience.
Posted by secretagent on February 23, 2011 at 12:10 PM · Report this
52
@16 for women nervous about anal, I wanted to add that in addition to lube & warm-up play, I highly recommend the woman-on-top position. When I'm in control of the depth and speed of penetration, I am able to relax much more.
Posted by EricaP on February 23, 2011 at 12:34 PM · Report this
53
@48 (EricaP)...

As a fellow poly girl (and proud slut), I can totally identify with you on this. It's part of the process of unlearning/reframing a lot of the messages about sex we've been hearing our whole lives. As women, one of the primary messages of empowerment we receive (sanctioned by sex-negative culture) is that we have a right to say "no" (I do not minimize the importance of this message, but on its own it's insufficient and leaves girls without a model for empowered chosen sex).

As I embraced sex-positivity, I spent the entirety of my 20s indulging my right to enthusiastically say "yes." The downside of that is that I actually got kind of bad at saying "no."

It can be weirdly difficult to find where "no" fits in a sex-positive identity, and it sounds like you're navigating that right now. But I think your plan sounds good, and I'm glad the experiences that led to this didn't cause you harm. Just remember that saying "no" is just as much a part of getting what you want sexually as saying "yes" and "right there" and "harder, please!" (which I know you are a fierce advocate of ;) )
Posted by offfwhite on February 23, 2011 at 12:35 PM · Report this
54
@53 Yes! One problem is that guys don't take absence-of-enthusiasm as a "no". They take it as "yes." So to change an unpleasant activity, I have to say "no," but it's hard to keep the interaction friendly and sexy while saying "no." So I put up with things I don't like, out of niceness or in (unrealistic) hope of getting back to "yes" and "harder, please" and "don't stop!!"
Posted by EricaP on February 23, 2011 at 12:46 PM · Report this
Jaymz 55
Just want to chime in with @45 that everyone has a duty to be a "good patient" and tell the health care provider of ANY changes in anatomy or symptomology. Don't expect them to remember anything from visit to visit - personal responsibility, people!
Posted by Jaymz on February 23, 2011 at 1:01 PM · Report this
56
For the stretched out lady: I'm surprised Dan didn't suggest the simple, one-word solution: ANAL!
Posted by koshkamat on February 23, 2011 at 1:09 PM · Report this
57
She's 50 and she's "been in menopause for a long time"?? On what planet?
Posted by venusaveb on February 23, 2011 at 1:30 PM · Report this
BEG 58
@57 I have a friend who started at 35. Lot of variation.
Posted by BEG http://twitter.com/#!/browneyedgirl65 on February 23, 2011 at 1:37 PM · Report this
BrotherBob 59
I make it a habit to check the site at least daily. If all of dan's readers did that......
Posted by BrotherBob on February 23, 2011 at 1:39 PM · Report this
60
I love that santorum has earned the googlehack of his name and I feel he should not be allowed to run a family, much less an office. With that said I am not sure it would really make a difference.

Joe Biden is a heinous, pro-corporate, anti-individual right, pro-FBI, pro-warrant-less-search asshat and he still became the VP.

The less said of Cheney the better.
The less said of Gore the better, but at least he had a decent rep on most levels before he became VP.
Quayle... LOL

You get the idea that it will not limit his VP chances. Now, let us think about it harming his presidential campaign... The people dumb enough to vote for him will consider it a badge of honor that we think he is a putz, and the corporations will not look past his willingness to work for them rather than for the people.

Posted by Kylere on February 23, 2011 at 1:42 PM · Report this
61
@EricaP: So to change an unpleasant activity, I have to say "no," but it's hard to keep the interaction friendly and sexy while saying "no."

In a situation where your partner isn't violating your boundaries but they're not really pleasing you, either, try forgoing "no" (or other negative phrases) and ask for something you do want instead. This way you can still be friendly and sexy and kinda sidetrack the person from whatever icky thing they were doing.

'Course if your partner is deliberately violating your boundaries, feel free to haul out the "no" as well as the "WTF ARE YOU DOING YOU MOTHERFUCKING ASSWIPE GET OFF ME" (if you feel you can do so without things escalating to violence, of course). A loud, direct, unwavering NO can be a very effective teaching tool for certain kinds of pushy, manipulative guys.
Posted by perversecowgirl on February 23, 2011 at 2:11 PM · Report this
62
Yeahhh...I don't see how anal would generally be more pleasing for a woman than vaginal sex. Imagine if she messes up anal...then she'll have a shredded kitty and a shredded anus!
Posted by Caralain on February 23, 2011 at 2:21 PM · Report this
63
My first time having anal was also unlubed and a "surprise," at least to me. And it was also a NSA guy from the internet. So I'm not at all surprised that this happened to EricaP, although it is still disgusting behaviour on the men's part. No, two guys out of 11 doing this is not a pattern, nor is it at all EricaP's fault.
Posted by milena on February 23, 2011 at 2:49 PM · Report this
Robin8 64
@#9: A vulva puppet is a stuffie/hand puppet, made of various fabrics and other materials, which resembles a stylized vulva, complete with clit you can make erect by pulling a string in the back of the vulva. I had the opportunity to stay in the San Francisco guest house run by sex performance artist Dorrie Lane about 15 years ago, and got to see dozens of these cute things up close and personal. The ones I saw are about the size of a throw pillow, and can be used as such (but why would you want to?):

http://www.houseochicks.com/

If you can cringe through the perpetually bad spelling and grammar, this site is interesting to navigate. I believe Dorrie now makes a miniature version, as well as custom versions.
Posted by Robin8 http://shutyoureverlovingpiehole.wordpress.com on February 23, 2011 at 3:10 PM · Report this
65
perversecowgirl@61: Thanks, you're right that redirection is a useful approach. I need to train myself to move mentally from "ick, I don't like this" to "what do I want?" Once I've named that new thing in my own head, whether it's a sexual activity or a drink of water or putting on my clothes and walking out the door -- it will definitely be easier to focus on getting it.
Posted by EricaP on February 23, 2011 at 3:36 PM · Report this
66
@63, thanks for the support, sorry that happened to you too, and hope you've had many better experiences since.
Posted by EricaP on February 23, 2011 at 3:37 PM · Report this
Ophian 67
Another hearty agreement with @ 41.

H78 and Prof are tools. For those of us males who are thoughtful and attentive in the sack, those kind of human pimples really poison the water.
Posted by Ophian on February 23, 2011 at 3:47 PM · Report this
68
@66 Oh, for sure and I actually really like anal now, especially since my boyfriend is always understanding if any given day, I'm not up for it. Just wanted to point out to douches like hunter78 that your experiences are not isolated or rare, unfortunately.
Posted by milena on February 23, 2011 at 3:55 PM · Report this
seandr 69
EricaP @54:
Just noticed your comment thread. Wow, fascinating, and thank you for sharing your experiences. I'm surprised you've encountered so many bad lays. I've always assumed a woman in your position would have her pick from hundreds of male candidates, so naturally the guys who end up getting picked must fuck like champs. Apparently not.

Have you tried any married men? Maybe you'd have better luck if you did, although I suppose that would be "wrong".

Also, I have to wonder whether the NSA/Lustlab hookups are doomed simply because there's so much focus/pressure/high expectations surrounding the sex without much opportunity to connect in a more "natural" way. Personally, it's hard for me to imagine how stranger sex could ever compare with sex with someone you connect with. Don't get me wrong - I can certainly enjoy stranger sex, but the best sex I've had was good precisely because my partner and I had chemistry, not necessarily because of the positions and scenarios we rotated through.

Anyway, good luck and have fun! You seem like an awesome woman and wife.
Posted by seandr on February 23, 2011 at 3:58 PM · Report this
Backyard Bombardier 70
@67: On the bright side, they make it so easy to be perceived as a good in bed. Make sure she comes before you do - hell, express any interest whatsoever in her coming at all - and you're a stud. Actually be aware of the existence and location of the mythical clitoris? You are The God of Love.
Posted by Backyard Bombardier on February 23, 2011 at 4:02 PM · Report this
Jason58A 71
If Santorum's first move after announcing his candidacy is to "confront" his "google problem," he is already finished by default. Congrats to Dan & co. for slaying the potential dragon of his miserable political rehab with one filthy, filthy word. Having your name permanently and irrevocably tied to said frothy substance is an end to any political career.
Posted by Jason58A http://meatpicnic.com on February 23, 2011 at 4:20 PM · Report this
72
Just another side of the coin for those who feel like an empowered woman can't have anal sex, or that fucking a woman in the ass is "the final frontier" or somehow a more pleasing conquest because it's degrading: she's literally making you stick your most precious member into a shithole, dude.
Posted by E-Lo on February 23, 2011 at 4:29 PM · Report this
73
@1: I second it!!

Savage in 2012!!!!
Posted by auntie grizelda on February 23, 2011 at 4:39 PM · Report this
74
Please pretty pleeeeeeeeease can I enter menopause now???

When I do, I'm throwing a wild party!
Posted by auntie grizelda on February 23, 2011 at 4:42 PM · Report this
75
@ 31 - Oh, "professor," you troll... Back again?
Posted by Frederica Bimble on February 23, 2011 at 4:57 PM · Report this
76
@50: Christians are responsible for challenging their co-religionists to be more tolerant because those other Christians (especially their own pastors, priests, etc) are responsible to them in some way--by virtue of their Christianness.

Christianity implies certain beliefs and usually certain values as well, so if I belong to a church that preaches intolerance, my preacher ought to be responsive to my arguing that that is not Christian, or that is not the sort of Christianity one ought to endorse. but I have no such hold over Palin. as a fellow human, I can argue that she ought to display certain traits, but I certainly can't argue that having a vagina forces one, automatically, to hold certain views/beliefs/values, and if you disagree with those values you should get a sex change (like a Christian could change religions if he/she felt that Christianity went counter to his/her beliefs).
Posted by SavageLoving on February 23, 2011 at 5:04 PM · Report this
77
@42 - so, I'm not the only one to identify the troll... It looks like there's two for today!
Posted by Frederica Bimble on February 23, 2011 at 5:07 PM · Report this
78
Why doesn't the woman with the 'shredded kitty' try anal with her small-penised hubby?

Ah, Seattle - where the gay sex columnist won't recommend anal to the heteros because he knows it freaks the little feminist princesses out.

Give him the ass. He'll never stray.
Posted by SleepingWithNannyState on February 23, 2011 at 5:18 PM · Report this
79
EricaP: I just feel the need to tell you that no matter what some idiots say, you have a very good grasp of the situation and are learning to navigate the waters of NSA sex with admirable poise. The only problem is that, yeah, unless you force them to concentrate on you ("no anal until I've come!" for example), most men only think about what they like and what they want.

@ 36 - So two near-rape situations make a pattern? Come on! The only pattern it makes is that two out of two men are totally inconsiderate of their partner's needs and limits in bed - which is almost consistent with my experience as a very promiscuous gay man (I'd say 9 out of 10). It doesn't mean that EricaP doesn't know how to pick them. What's there to pick if most guys are incompetent, immature lovers who act as if they've never touched a woman before?

And with your attitude, I'm sure you're one of those.
Posted by Ricardo on February 23, 2011 at 5:26 PM · Report this
sanguisuga 80
Aaaand now we have misogynistic asshole number 3! You don't know that they haven't tried anal. I'm pretty sure she isn't worried about her husband "straying". She wants to be able to enjoy PIV again. And Dan suggests anal for heteros all the damn time. So shut your hole.
Posted by sanguisuga on February 23, 2011 at 5:27 PM · Report this
81
EricaP and Friends,

Thanks for all the nice comments.

I'll repeat my argument again-- apparently there are readers here (bless them!) who have not read every SL msg in the last few months. I do edit my remarks for dramatic effects- the column should be entertaining, and I try do to do my part.

You've gone on for months about your situation, slowly revealing little bits of it. But now we have it in numbers-- 11 lays with men of your choosing, and they were all losers. What's your role in this? You're blameless-- or not! I started clumsily looking for some reason for your lack of success. Here we are now... Blah, blah, blah.

EricaP, I do not hate you. I have become more fond of you since we started corresponding. But I have some more bits to offer on this. I'll try to respond to you and some of your allies, but I'll avoid the vituperativeness we've seen here recently. I could never best you others in that.
Posted by Hunter78 on February 23, 2011 at 5:36 PM · Report this
82
I was late in reading the column this week. My gay brother in law sent me a text asking me if I'd read it. His summary: "If I wasn't gay already, I would be now!"
Posted by catballou on February 23, 2011 at 5:41 PM · Report this
83
To everyone recommending anal - it's not the same, trust me. I currently have problems having PIV sex painlessly which I didn't have before. So bf and I have been having lots of anal. But we both still miss vaginal dearly. First of all, at least for some women, with anal you do have to be more careful to not cause damage. And, I, at least, get pretty sore after about 15 mins of anal. Plus, the sensation is different. It's pleasurable, but it just doesn't feel as good as vaginal. And some women just plain can't enjoy anal no matter how much they want to.
Posted by milena on February 23, 2011 at 5:49 PM · Report this
BadAnne 84
@36 - Please leave the advice on rape to professional therapists. In fact, it isn't "extremely striking" that Erica was raped twice in one year. It is, rather, extremely COMMON for sexual assaults victims to be the target of multiple assaults by different rapists at different times. There are other contributing factors to this, but often, victims have trouble setting boundaries(sometimes this is due to the previous assault), and sexual predators are emotionally manipulative and clue into this.
It is absolutely unconscionable to suggest that the victim is at fault due to a lack of diligence in her screening process or for any other reason. If you are any sort of decent human being, you should apologize for your uninformed and hurtful comment.
Posted by BadAnne on February 23, 2011 at 6:17 PM · Report this
85
badgirl,

Re anal:

"Hunter implied ..[he felt].. his partner was cheap and a whore."

No, I didn't-- you implied that. Where did that come from? I said I feel differently toward women I've ass-fucked. I do. I feel more intimately connected to them. So sue me.
Posted by Hunter78 on February 23, 2011 at 6:35 PM · Report this
86
Unlubed anal?

Seriously?

A man would only attempt that if he'd been watching too much porn and not having enough actual sex.

Clueless guys, just for your info, in porn movies that feature anal, the girls have been thoroughly douched, stretched, and lubed before the camera starts filming. This is also why in porn you can go from anal straight to vaginal, but if you do it in real life you'll probably give your partner a nasty case of thrush.
Posted by DexX http://www.bi-alliance.org/ on February 23, 2011 at 6:43 PM · Report this
87
Thanks, milena, seandr, Ricardo, Backyard Bombardier, BadAnne and many others, for your support. I really appreciate having thoughtful and experienced people to ask about this. Clearly, what I was doing this year was not as satisfying as I had hoped it would be. (Though it did lead to fantastic sex at home.) I appreciate all the constructive suggestions for how to improve things going forward.
Posted by EricaP on February 23, 2011 at 6:48 PM · Report this
88
sick of reading multiple posts from the same people. don't you have anything better to do all day?
Posted by ribs on February 23, 2011 at 7:05 PM · Report this
89
Backyard Bombardier,

"speaking as a man who has undoubtedly had more pussy in his life than the two of you combined..."

You are awesome, dude! You are the man! So knowing. So correct.
Posted by Hunter78 on February 23, 2011 at 7:19 PM · Report this
90
@ 86 - Very true.
Posted by Ricardo on February 23, 2011 at 7:40 PM · Report this
91
@ 89 - Yet, somehow, no one but you has any difficulty in believing that Backyard Bombardier's claim is true.
Posted by Ricardo on February 23, 2011 at 7:45 PM · Report this
ItsBetterIfYouDont 92
I was going to say that spreadingsantorum.com was only #4 but then I realized that I Googled "Rick Santorum". My bad. But damn that's impressive. He's never going to be president and it's still going to make me go ICK when I hear his name.
Posted by ItsBetterIfYouDont on February 23, 2011 at 8:00 PM · Report this
93
@78 - What makes you think Savage is afraid of freaking out feminists? He loves nothing more than to piss feminists off.

BTW - Feminists are not against anal as a principle. Feminists are against the patriarchy. As a chauvinistic douchenozzle yourself, you probably can't tell the difference. It isn't *anal* women don't want from you, it's you. Sorry (but not really).
Posted by random_lez on February 23, 2011 at 8:28 PM · Report this
Backyard Bombardier 94
@85: "Where did that come from? I said I feel differently toward women I've ass-fucked."

Hunter78, what you said @10 was this:

"As for anal, I personally have never wanted it for a 'tighter hole.' I've wanted it more for a further conquest, another portal penetrated, another surrender. I always feel differently when I see a woman in who's ass my dick has been. It's different than simply a woman fucked."

Gotta say, that doesn't read like a sensitive lover who feels "more intimately connected". It reads like a man who enjoys sex with women most when he feels that it degrades them. It certainly doesn't read like a man who considers his sexual partners to be his equals.
Posted by Backyard Bombardier on February 23, 2011 at 9:12 PM · Report this
95
@91

Maybe no one has said that they doubted the veracity of bombardier's claim, but that doesn't mean that no one has. I, for example, doubt his claim that he has slept with more women than Hunter78 and Professor combined because all of these people are total fucking strangers on the internet who have no way of knowing how many sexual partners the others have had.

@85

Thank you for clarifying on the anal front. I read your original comment and didn't think you were expressing any negative emotions toward the women in question, but a lot of the follow up comments made me doubt my reading comprehension skills.
Posted by chicago girl on February 23, 2011 at 9:16 PM · Report this
96
@ 95 - Usually, with guys, just a few lines are necessary for the alert reader to be able to separate the nerdy ones who's sex life is strictly limited to porn and fantasies from the ones who actually have encountered a naked human being once or twice.

Maybe you should doubt your reading comprehension skills.
Posted by Ricardo on February 23, 2011 at 9:51 PM · Report this
97
EricaP,

I can't help wondering why you didn't just insist each time that he help you cum first? It would have saved you from a lot of bad sex, I would think. If a guy refuses, you walk. Plus, pre-intercourse orgasms sometimes cause intercourse orgasms to be more intense (if you are able to have those, of course.)

I haven't had a lot of NSA sex, maybe 2 one-nighters and a handful of friends-with-benefits, but no one I've been with ever refused to help me cum first. Then again, none of them were guys I found online looking for NSA so that might make a difference. Most of those guys creeped me out because they were too impatient about meeting in person and didn't seem to comprehend the idea of a woman valuing her safety.

Posted by Diagoras on February 23, 2011 at 10:32 PM · Report this
98
Unforgiving should try wearing some sort of sex toy during intercourse. A butterfly or a vibrating cock ring would stimulate both her clit, and her husband's penis during intercourse. The two of them should visit a high-quality toy shop together. The sales person could probably recommend something great.
Posted by just a reader on February 23, 2011 at 11:30 PM · Report this
99
Dan, don't forget to have your webmaster/mistress renew the spreadingsantorum domain (it currently expires in November...)
Posted by slugbiker http://www.seattlescrabble.org on February 23, 2011 at 11:55 PM · Report this
100
EricaP, I too encourage you to voice your positive impulses in bed. Your track record of 11 bad male partners mirrors my own experience with bad female partners. The fellas I've been with have all been very nice lovers. I've never had NSA sex. They have all been relationships.

The striking thing to me, the thing that I feel delayed my becoming a better lover with women, is the pattern of women who will not teach. They will not teach their lovers what pleases them. They tend to be good at expressing displeasure but they expect the pleasurable things to come from mind reading.

I didn't have the benefit of the internet and SL when I came of age sexually. Certainly it would have been easier to get outside learning if I'd had more resources. I honestly did as much as I could with the ladies I was with. The thing that mattered to me most was finding out what would please that particular person. Everyone is different, right? But the people in my self-selected group just weren't that comfortable with their own sexuality to provide the feedback. The woman I married turned out to be the least sexually hung-up person for me. It's part of why I admire her so much.

Emphasize the positive. Do express the negative, although unless it's a violation of your previously discussed boundaries then express it gently. Nothing kills the mood faster than a "cut that the fuck out!" out of the clear blue. And I second what Sean said above --that it's hard to excel with someone whom you hardly know sexually.
Posted by jenesasquatch on February 24, 2011 at 6:52 AM · Report this
101
Keep twitting the Santorum creep!!! Let's retire this clown permanently. Ol' Frothy Mixture still thinks he can be president (fat chance of that!) but still, I want to see the asshole creep away with his sorry tail between his legs.
Posted by Michael63 on February 24, 2011 at 7:03 AM · Report this
102
Hunter: well, I guess that is the problem with communicating via this method. You might have meant something one way, but I interpreted it another....what do they say? Like upwards of 80% of communication is non-verbal, so you lose much in the written word? I interpreted as much the way Backyard Bombadier did probably (unless I am mistaken!)

If I misinterpreted, I apologize. I did think you meant it as a slam on women who *I* feel offered you a gift, so that is why I was so offended.

I also agree with, I think it was milena, when she is speaking of anal. I love anal, I come like gangbusters, and its great for those 1st couple of days when I am on the rag and its super messy...but it will NEVER replace vaginal. I can only go for a little bit before I get sore. I like the feeling of being a dirty little slut from it, but I don't get the feelings of intimacy I get from vaginal. I come really HARD, but once I get off, that's it, game over, and I get too sesntive to continue. Whereas I can fuck for *hours* vaginally! Come and come and come again....rest 5 minutes, and go some more! Lol! So is it fun and do I recommend it? Hell yes!!! But, as a fun addition to, not a replacement for vaginal. I would miss the different kind of closeness I feel as well as the multiples, hahah.
Posted by badgirl on February 24, 2011 at 8:31 AM · Report this
103
Ha! As a newish reader to this column, I actually though Santorum was a random word pulled out of the blue by Dan and readers. Reading about this Santorum guy I think it's completely appropriate! Assuming I am not the only reader who didn't know the origins of this word, I see it growing fast from a joke to a dictionary word in no time!
Posted by jenns on February 24, 2011 at 9:00 AM · Report this
Helenka (also a Canuck) 104
I just read Unforgiving's letter again and can't believe what she went through. Tearing during childbirth is one thing ... but to have the stitches tear a few days later should have been reason enough to go back to her obgyn to be restitched immediately. Because the tearing's most likely NOT in the vagina, but in the perineum. I'm wondering if she was given ANY aftercare information at all (such as softening the stitched skin with massage to promote faster healing, I believe with lanolin but my memory could be faulty).

In some ways, this letter is the same as the first: aka, if you don't speak up for yourself in front of a health-care provider, you're not going to get the treatment you need. And, unfortunately, it means that people have to learn as much as possible about their bodies to be able to approach (or even confront) their health providers.

I don't know if it's too late for Unforgiving, but I believe she needs to see a more caring and understanding doctor NOW. In any case, IMO, trying to have ANY vaginal sex while in possession of a shredded kitty is not a good idea, especially if she's trying to see how a small penis can offer more stimulation (and a penile sleeve to increase girth would probably be the best option there). It makes me wince just to think of it!
Posted by Helenka (also a Canuck) on February 24, 2011 at 10:32 AM · Report this
105
To Unforgiving:

Dan gives good advice, but also look into a physical therapist that specializes in pelvic floor issues. Kegals help, but there are a ton of other exercises that can be done to help tighten your pelvic floor muscles--and not getting the help you need with that could result in problems that go beyond your sex life.

A helpful book in this area is Heal Pelvic Pain by Amy Stein. But really, find a physical therapist that specializes in pelvic floor muscles.
Posted by banana_grabber on February 24, 2011 at 11:04 AM · Report this
106
Shredded Kitty- still here? I'm a shred-ee also. I had a rectocele repair last year when my 14 year old shredding came back to haunt me. Vaginoplasty will certainly help, but in the meantime, make sure you are doing your Kegels correctly! During the course of treatment with the urogynecologist, they sent me to a pelvic physical therapist and I learned a lot. If there's any way you can swing that, it will be worth it. If your gyno refers you, many insurance plans will pay for it.

Otherwise, try some research online and get a real Kegel routine going for yourself. It WILL make a difference, now- and when you're older. Don't just tighten up now and then when you think about it, because that's not going to do it!

Good luck!
Posted by k3lly on February 24, 2011 at 11:09 AM · Report this
107
To Unforgiving:

Dan gives good advice, but also look into a physical therapist that specializes in pelvic floor issues. Kegals help, but there are a ton of other exercises that can be done to help tighten your pelvic floor muscles--and not getting the help you need with that could result in problems that go beyond your sex life.

A helpful book in this area is Heal Pelvic Pain by Amy Stein. But really, find a physical therapist that specializes in pelvic floor muscles.
Posted by banana_grabber on February 24, 2011 at 11:10 AM · Report this
108
Ow, Unforgiving's letter made me flinch, I'm impressed she wants anything in there after tearing her vagina twice. And I'm pissed about the lack of help or sympathy from the doctor, jeez.
I case surgery isn't an option (and it sounds like a reasonable choice if she can do it), I wanted to add to the alternate suggestions... I have had good luck adding another toy to the mix when size was a challenge. A buttplug, vibrator or dildo in the ass can make pussy sex a bit tighter, or a vibrator along with a cock in the pussy adds size and sensation. The vibrator I used was one of those slender massage-type ones, no extra bumps or realistic shape (as that would make it more difficult to get in there, plus some guys are a bit leery of having another "dick" in with them).
Posted by octothorpe on February 24, 2011 at 11:20 AM · Report this
109
Surgery should be a last resort for pelvic organ prolapses, and kegals are not really the best way to get things back together either. I highly recommend http://mamasweat.blogspot.com/2010/05/pe…
Posted by Key_Lime_Pie on February 24, 2011 at 11:30 AM · Report this
shw3nn 110
@85

"I said I feel differently toward women I've ass-fucked. I do. I feel more intimately connected to them."

You feel intimately connected to them as conquests who have surrendered to you. You were clear about the quality of that relationship. I don't think many people misunderstood.

You basically told us that you ask for anal just to see if you can get the woman to do it. And, if she agrees, your satisfaction is derived from having gotten her to agree to it, not from the anal itself. Again, you were clear that the anus isn't appealing on its own.

It's just a secret power game you're playing and getting off on. You're basically just using the woman's sphincter to masturbate your ego.

If you were at all honest, you would admit that you wouldn't want a woman to play that game with you, either. Don't worry, I'm not holding my breath.

You can try to flounce with all your might but you have communicated this to us. And it's shitty. It's a shitty attitude to have. It's a shitty way to be.
Posted by shw3nn on February 24, 2011 at 11:34 AM · Report this
111 Comment Pulled (Duplicate) Comment Policy
112
I love Dan's columns, but he really missed the boat on Unforgiving. What's all this stuff about prolapse? She didn't say anything about prolapse. And enough with recommending anal, people: if she orgasmed from PVI before baby and wants to again, anal is (literally) a move in the wrong direction.

Lack of fit after childbirth, tearing or no, is really, really common. Kegels for tightening and the We Vibe are both quite useful. I'd recommend experimenting with positions that squeeze your knees together, too--everything narrows up. Dan, please give this kind of question a little more research and focus next time.
Posted by Green Betty on February 24, 2011 at 11:42 AM · Report this
113
Professor and Hunter, you just don't know what you're talking about. Anyone who comes out and says "most (male) straight men" like this and that, or see it like this and like that (say anal sex, and as a conquest) simply hasn't been around enough and talked to sufficiently many males. I'm a straight man, and nothing of what either of you said sounds even remotely like my male sexual experience.

Whenever someone like Prof tries to "attack all feminazis" become something male is being reviled, I am reminded of how similar people like him are to the very feminazis they revile: the same tactics, the same lack of concern for facts or for the opinions of others, the same holier-than-thou attack that basically says "I know everything and you don't"... My impression is that Prof and H78 are simply feminazis wannabees still waiting for their very own sex-change operation.

Meanwhile, in the real world, real people interact in ways that go beyond their comprehension...
Posted by ankylosaur on February 24, 2011 at 11:59 AM · Report this
114
CAN WE TALK ABOUT THE ACTUAL LETTERS PLEASE?

God, we really need a forum so we can bitch about useless unrelated junk elsewhere.

I'm wondering if those of you who've had shredded kitties would recomment elective C-sections instead? or was natural vaginal birth worth the shredding issues?
Posted by Caralain on February 24, 2011 at 12:13 PM · Report this
115
EricaP, who said: " I liked most of the guys, personally, and I enjoyed the first bit, but I would stick it out to try to get them to orgasm, even after I stopped having fun. They didn't feel that obligation towards me, and I do see that as a difference in how (most) men and women are socialized.", and also: "One problem is that guys don't take absence-of-enthusiasm as a "no". They take it as "yes.""

EricaP, speaking as a male, you're correct; it often happens that absence-of-enthusiasm is not seen as "no". But consider that this is not simply the result (as some other commenters apparently implied) of a tendency for assholery among men. It is also a byproduct of the fact that women aren't very vocal about their likes and dislikes (again for all kinds of social reasons).

It sometimes occurred to me to keep asking "are you liking this?" or trying to interpret silences or apparent lack of enthusiasm; in many such occasions, this killed the mood (the women in question oddly felt I wasn't really into her, or into sex, if I kept asking questions), and it also made it less enjoyable to me (because I had to keep worrying about whether or not that absence-of-enthusiasm 'meant something' or not -- sometimes they didn't mean anything.)

Sometimes women expected me to 'simply guess' whatever it is they would like (apparently by crossing out items in a mental list while paying attention to their reactions) rather than telling me what they like and don't like. One woman even vocally expressed herself angrily afterwards because I "was supposed to guess."

I wished everybody could get relaxed before sex and just talk about likes and dislikes. I hope women will feel more empowered the more they feel they can do that -- before, and during. I readily acknowledge that many men are also not interested in talking, and seem to be oblivious to their lack of success with their partners... I am just pointing out that even when I try to do my part, it sometimes didn't work. I blame society's funny ideas about sex, "guessing" (= "telepathy"), and male and female stereotypes for that.

More...
Posted by ankylosaur on February 24, 2011 at 12:15 PM · Report this
116
To secretagent, who said: "Let me tell you what probably happened in that man's head and you tell me if it sounds similar to anything your buddies have said: "She's just a slut, man." "She wants it, you can tell." "I did X to her." To her, not with her, notice. "A few drinks will loosen her up" "I got mine" "She said no at first but then she let me". Until men stop seeing sex as a "conquest" and women as "surrendered" these assaults will continue. Sex isn't something you can steal or earn. It's a shared experience."

While I acknowledge there are men who think like that, let me point out that (as I said in my last comment) doing the exact opposite can sometimes have the same effect. There are men who are out there to have fun and have their partners have fun, and it doesn't always work out well for them either because of stereotypes about 'what men want' and 'what women want' that the WOMEN themselves also believe in.

Even men who want to listen don't get the chance of listening all that often, because women are still learning how to talk. Awkwardness and results that are less than wonderful can happen despite the best of intentions on both sides.

As I said above, I think people need to learn how to talk about sex without feeling that 'the magic is being destroyed' -- and this difficulty affects women as often as it affects men, if not more so. The expectation that 'men will guess it even if I say nothing' is as frequent -- and as damaging -- as the masculine bad habits you mentioned.
Posted by ankylosaur on February 24, 2011 at 12:20 PM · Report this
117
Hunter, let me make mine badgirl's words from upthread. I don't know if your intentions in writing what you did were good -- but the result did sound bad. If you re-read it and think about what people usually mean by the words you said (say, what you'd think about a woman who said the same about having pegged you), maybe you'll realize that the implications of what you said (more than what you said in itself) are indeed bad.

All in all, this stresses the fact that communication is the key to success, in sex as in everything else.
Posted by ankylosaur on February 24, 2011 at 12:28 PM · Report this
nocutename 118
anklyosaur and EricaP (and everyone else),
There are so many issues at play here.
I think that women are socialized to not be demanding, and they're also socialized to expect that men will somehow magically 'know' what to do to/for them. They're often uncomfortable talking explicitly about sex, and may not even be able to articulate what it is they *do* want (especially when they're younger).

A while back there was a discussion about Taylor Momson and her vibrator advice, which brought up the point that a lot of women don't begin masturbating at as young an age or with as much frequency as boys do, so they are less likely to know what they like and what it takes to get them off (EricaP, I assume that you know what it takes, but I'm speaking generally, and about younger women here).

I can only speak from my own experience, but I need a lot of intense, direct, focused clitoral stimulation (almost always only available in a vibrator) to come, so my teen attempts at masturbation never led to orgasm, and I had not the slightest idea what it would take to get me off. One of my early partners would frequently--conscientiously--ask what I wanted, and since I had no clue, but didn't want to seem ungrateful or difficult, I just said that everything was fine. I was young; I didn't want to hurt his feelings; I was embarrassed. I couldn't have told him what worked if I'd wanted to.

Posted by nocutename on February 24, 2011 at 12:31 PM · Report this
119
Caralain: Yes, natural childbirth is worth the shredding issue. Passing through the birth canal is an important part of transitioning from the womb to the outside for the baby--the pressure squeezes gunk from their lungs that can cause serious health issues, among other things. As far as the mom is concerned, the post-partum period is difficult enough with a vaginal birth--a C section is major abdominal surgery that necessitates cutting through the muscle wall. It requires far more recovery than a "shredded pussy", has a far higher rate of post-surgical complications, and can seriously interfere with establishing nursing or even basic bonding with your baby. It's fantastic that C-sections exist for situations in which they're necessary--but they should be reserved for those.
Posted by Green Betty on February 24, 2011 at 12:31 PM · Report this
120
Aimed at the Hunter/Professor thread: I am a woman who came of age sexually with a very extreme feminist slant. The idea of the surrender/conqueror sexual relationship was unfathomably misogynistic to me, demeaning, objectifying, etc. However,years later,I had sex with someone who I knew/trusted who introduced me to my own desire for extreme power play in the bedroom. As stated before, I know my feminist politics intimately, and am grateful to be able to reference them. However, it doesn't change the fact that there is something inherent to my sexuality that desires the struggle against male conquest,and there's no moment more satisfying than surrendering to penetration. It's that kind of theater in the bedroom which, for me, brings sex to the level of divinity- becoming every man/woman who has ever, or will ever, engage in this act. There are fundamental, biological tendencies that can be explored and acted out intelligently on the stage of the bedroom, that satisfy the soul- that are contrary to our current socially correct views of equality. Hunter and Professor may or may not be conscious lovers or douchebags, but I think the point about the feminization of our culture is a strong one.

"2. The bashers of #10 demonstrating his point. In case you missed it #10 referenced the penultimate (straight) male fantasy of penetrating a woman. He then noted his pleasure in achieving anal penetration was, in part, attributable to the pursuit of tail and "winning' the conquest. These emotional objections are all a part of the feminization of our culture. Anything remotely and uniquely male is castigated, chastised and labeled as deviant, sexist, pervert, rapist."

We do live in an era where this is the case. I'm not saying that there isn't a legit historical reason for it- feminism happened (thankfully)pendulums swing, it's how it works. But I think a lot of folks are having unsatisfying sex because neither men nor women are "allowed" to be men or women. Which is why sex is in some ways the last vestige we have to be men and women without politics. The bedroom is no place for politics- it's where we discover and share our most essential selves.

More...
Posted by seasalt on February 24, 2011 at 12:56 PM · Report this
121
Aimed at the Hunter/Professor thread: I am a woman who came of age sexually with a very extreme feminist slant. The idea of the surrender/conqueror sexual relationship was unfathomably misogynistic to me, demeaning, objectifying, etc. However,years later,I had sex with someone who I knew/trusted who introduced me to my own desire for extreme power play in the bedroom. As stated before, I know my feminist politics intimately, and am grateful to be able to reference them. However, it doesn't change the fact that there is something inherent to my sexuality that desires the struggle against male conquest,and there's no moment more satisfying than surrendering to penetration. It's that kind of theater in the bedroom which, for me, brings sex to the level of divinity- becoming every man/woman who has ever, or will ever, engage in this act. There are fundamental, biological tendencies that can be explored and acted out intelligently on the stage of the bedroom, that satisfy the soul- that are contrary to our current socially correct views of equality. Hunter and Professor may or may not be conscious lovers or douchebags, but I think the point about the feminization of our culture is a strong one.

"2. The bashers of #10 demonstrating his point. In case you missed it #10 referenced the penultimate (straight) male fantasy of penetrating a woman. He then noted his pleasure in achieving anal penetration was, in part, attributable to the pursuit of tail and "winning' the conquest. These emotional objections are all a part of the feminization of our culture. Anything remotely and uniquely male is castigated, chastised and labeled as deviant, sexist, pervert, rapist."

We do live in an era where this is the case. I'm not saying that there isn't a legit historical reason for it- feminism happened (thankfully)pendulums swing, it's how it works. But I think a lot of folks are having unsatisfying sex because neither men nor women are "allowed" to be men or women. Which is why sex is in some ways the last vestige we have to be men and women without politics. The bedroom is no place for politics- it's where we discover and share our most essential selves.

More...
Posted by liveandlearn on February 24, 2011 at 12:59 PM · Report this
122
nocutename: your comments were wise, and just go to prove how different we women are! I winced just reading that, lol!! I am super sensitive, and would probably scream in pain rather then pleasure if any man treated my clit like that, yipes! For me, lets...work around the issue, shall we?

I understand the need to communicate of course, but I also find the "Let's sit down and discuss what I like with an itemized list before we even approach the bedroom" a bit sterile and off-putting. How about some nice moans when he is doing it right, or some "oh yes, more! NICE" works for me. If he is hurting...a pull away, or even an OUCH!!! Hahaha! "Easy big boy!" is one of my favorites...help the old ego as well.

Then the clinical converstions can begin....of course, this only works for FWB, rather then a one night fling.

Oh, sorry, was that off topic? Shessh...police! Anyhow...natural childbirth, for the reasons Green Betty listed above! I was back on the treadmill a week after my first. I didn't have shredding, and chances are, you won't....its a complication rather then a surity; it sounds like the poor woman above rushed through delivery and didn't take time to stretch out slowly. But there can be complications from C-sections as well. I might be a little looser, but I do my Kegels, and hell, my dude is such a big boy...it was a little painful sometimes before #1 anyway! I actually come much easier after babies.
Posted by badgirl on February 24, 2011 at 1:06 PM · Report this
123
Just here to spread a little santorum:

www.spreadingsantorum.com

Rock on, Dan.

That is all.
Posted by Yojimbo on February 24, 2011 at 1:11 PM · Report this
124
liveandlearn: I will agree with you 100%; I am a feminist by day and a happy submissive slut in the bedroom *grin*. I was so pissed off by Hunter because I interpreted his initial remarks to mean he lost respect for the women he was fucking up the ass, that he "conquored". As long as my lover still respects me, I absolutely adore and delight in being his little cocksucking whore, someone he can "use". Its the respect issue for me I guess, and knowing its a bedroom game. I know that actually this makes me even more desirable in his eyes, and in the initial post by Hunter, this is NOT how I read it...my interpretation was that he actually lost respect for them. If this was incorrect, again, see my retraction above. But nice to meet another femi-nazi submissive, lol!
Posted by badgirl on February 24, 2011 at 1:14 PM · Report this
125
@EricaP - so, um, I'm dying to know (because you *sound* hot), what part of the country are you in? I don't read every thread every week, so my apologies if this was covered already. No need to get too detailed, but just maybe which state?
Posted by knkycva on February 24, 2011 at 1:43 PM · Report this
126
Good call seasalt. Finally some balance. Prof and hunter78 seem douchey no doubt, but enough with the over-analyzing and associating alpha-male sexual tendencies with patriarchal oppression. Some men like conquests, some are honest, some are both. And WTF is so wrong about doing stuff to "please your man"? Everyone please read the part in "sex at dawn" where the woman starts taking testosterone and starts thinking like a man. We just get tired of having to tread around the easily offended emotional minefield of hyper sensitive feminists while they are offended by everything men innately are.
Posted by Chud on February 24, 2011 at 1:52 PM · Report this
127
its almost a field study in womens thinking. a guy talks frankly/harshly about what hes into, says he thinks of women "differently" after hes been in their ass, and they all instantly assume he means that he looks down on them as sluts or some BS feminist crap.

theyre the ones who are still in the dark ages by assuming all men are
Posted by Chud on February 24, 2011 at 2:03 PM · Report this
128
I'm feeling a bit lazy, and I don't want to root through all the posts I've just read through. Sorry - it just isn't happening.

However the guy who said the looks at a woman differently after he's been in her ass, that it's a different sort of feeling, a conquering and a surrender. Big Damn Deal. Seriously.

It is a conquering and it does impact how people view each other, and not all sex is rainbows and hearts. I play gender games and power exchange and I even own up to being mildly sexist in the bedroom.

I like men that have presence, and that "wear the pants". It turns me on - I like to surrender to them and most guys I've dated enjoy a girl that can hold her own in any given situation, but doesn't need to be in charge all the time.

And as a woman with a gorgeous strap-on and love of GGG, when a bossy, effiecient, sexy man nervously allows me to fuck his ass, it is a power rush. It is a conquest and it is so profusely intimate that it borders on sacred. Seeing a man that i've been inside like that...yeah it's a totally different eyeful.

You people that get so fucking offended, need to chill the fuck out. Seriously, everyone is so "sex positive", unless other people are having sex that they themselves wouldn't.

And on another note: as a rape survivor. It is quite obnoxious to see people picking up the victim title and acting like they had no knowledge of anything bad happening to them being possible. Well, Fuck. Huh? Let's have some common sense about things. A true physical attack is different from I let a stranger tie me up and they didn't stop.

I can acknowledge that I was raped cause I made bad choices that put me in a position to be sexually exploited. I learned from it and I moved on, and I gained the ability to understand that *I* had to live with my choices, so I better be fucking sure about them.

"How dare you blame a victim?" How dare you live in a manner which makes you a victim in any way? How dare you support a society where women don't have to account for their choices, and call yourself a feminist? How dare you chastise a man for having a visceral authentic opinion and voicing it - when you are angry over a woman's voice being unheard. It's pretty nauseating. I actually had to turn in my dance card to the NOW, because I don't think men should second-class citizens, and I think that gender and sex are vastly less important than quality of character.

Now I know I'm gonna get blasted as a troll, and that's fine but I would love to buy some of you a big hot glass of suck it up.
More...
Posted by Imp on February 24, 2011 at 2:18 PM · Report this
Backyard Bombardier 129
@126: "WTF is so wrong about doing stuff to 'please your man'?"

Nothing, as long as your man is willing to do stuff to "please his woman." Otherwise it's just rewarding bad behaviour.

@127: I'm a straight dude, and I assume that he meant he looks down on them. Why would you assume that only a woman would see it that way?

Posted by Backyard Bombardier on February 24, 2011 at 2:40 PM · Report this
secretagent 130
ankylosaur - I said as much to EricaP in a previous column. Sexual dysfunction is not primarily due to men OR women, but rather a host of bad habits/expectations/ideas in both. Women can't expect men to *know* what they want, and every woman who fakes it, doesn't make learning what she needs a priority, or sucks at communicating is contributing to the problem. Many men would love to know what sends a woman through the roof, but they don't ask, and we don't know, and so the shitty sex cycle continues.

liveandlearn - While I agree that feminism has resulted in some overly protectionist views of sex and men, I would rather that than what we had before. At least women of my generation know that good sex is achievable, desirable, and that they deserve to be listened to and not treated like possessions. Unless they want to be. They have the comparative luxury to *have* fantasies and express consent for being treated as filthily as they desire.

And have you ever considered that the reason you (and me) have those submissive fantasies is *because* we grew up knowing that wasn't "right" or the "norm"? Do you think women in cultures where they are subject to violence or treated as property by men have the same fantasies?

Men who have mature, modern, maybe even "feminist" views on sex are really the only ones any good at exploring the power dynamics behind sex. Men who don't either screw it up completely a la "I'm the dom - that means you pleasure me" or are so uncomfortable with "degrading" women that they don't realize that refusing to consider a woman's desires and requests is really what *is* degrading.
Posted by secretagent on February 24, 2011 at 2:58 PM · Report this
131
@41 Thank you, that actually means a lot!

I've found that a lot of men just don't listen in the bedroom! If you suggest things, they just keep plowing ahead, confident of their method. But different women prefer it in different ways, so you can't use the same method on every woman!!! Boys, don't take it as insult when we give you suggestions, we're letting you know what makes us come!!!

That being said, there are many men who are quite adept in bed, and they should be thanked for their attentiveness. Oh but they probably are... with repeat sex
Posted by pinkstuff on February 24, 2011 at 3:14 PM · Report this
132
Secretagent- Yes, I definitely do think that culture has everything to do with the kind of sexual fanatasies we have, or even whether we allow ourselves sexual fantasies. Definitely living in our feminized culture with restructured gender roles, the fetishization of submission is to be expected. And I too, as stated before, am grateful for the consciousness and opportunity to reevaluate gender that feminism has afforded us. However, let's not assume that before feminist thought, women had terrible sex or weren't ever satisfied.People have been having sex (and creating art and music and philosophy) since the beginning of time without our current institutions of thought to articulate sex dynamics and sub-dynamics. And just because we have those resources now doesn't mean that any more people are having better or more satisfying sex or are happier in general than before, as evidenced by just about every analysis of the age we live in. It's just a lot more complicated now.
I too, if forced to make a choice, would prefer to have more information/freedom than less. But I'd rather reach a point where the information's processed and we can just get back to having sex free of dogma.
Posted by liveandlearn on February 24, 2011 at 3:34 PM · Report this
133
sanguisuga/random_lez

Hey, just because I referred to the 'Feminist Princesses of Seattle' doesn't make me a misogynist.

The fact that I cover the drunk woman's face with a Hustler and pound away at her while chewing on a Big Mac - that's another story. Her orgasm? Who cares? Ya'll fake most of them anyway unless you get tickets to Bonnaroo or we buy you a tote with a bird on it.

Seattle's #1 Export: Smug, Whiny Misandry.
Posted by SleepingWithNannyState on February 24, 2011 at 3:35 PM · Report this
secretagent 134
Imp - I agree women should be held accountable for their choices. I don't agree that making bad choices means you deserve to be raped or abused. You were raped because your rapist was an asshole and a disgusting person. Your bad choices contributed, but you didn't cause yourself to be raped. Taking advantage of vulnerability in others is reprehensible, and that is why it's criminal, whether it is physical abuse, rape, fraud, etc. etc.

A classic rape coping mechanism is to attempt to rearrange life so that you don't ever become a victim again. To place the blame on yourself, because if it was something you caused, you can cause it to never happen again. Well, you can't. You can reduce your risk, but someone could still victimize you, and it's still not your fault.
Posted by secretagent on February 24, 2011 at 3:48 PM · Report this
secretagent 135
Liveandlearn - I do think that more women are having better sex. I would like to see a study that's capable of correlating self-reported satisfaction with actual satisfaction and then comparing it to previous generations. That would be a masterpiece of science, time travel and truth getting. As to everything else you said - agreed. Here's to that Utopian sex-filled unselfconscious day, may I live to see it.
Posted by secretagent on February 24, 2011 at 3:55 PM · Report this
Backyard Bombardier 136
@133: Truly, you are God's gift to women.
Posted by Backyard Bombardier on February 24, 2011 at 4:00 PM · Report this
137
My sympathies to the readers who have complained the Dan letters have been underplayed since my comments blew up the column. But this week's letters aren't that discussable. The chorus of feminist braying here is much more interesting.

SNAZ- Dan and Debbie's response was so downbeat, it's hard to have fun with. It was like a wet blanket on what followed. It did sound trollish in the last line and handle.

U- Her real problem is she can't afford a very reasonable operation. [I hear my detractors screaming already.] The shame is that US hasn't handled the medical payments problem the ways all other advanced countries have done.

CCC- I like Ginger, and Gin. But the topic's too light to survive the flames.
Posted by Hunter78 on February 24, 2011 at 4:07 PM · Report this
138
Are you kidding me? They're totally discussable, and way more interesting than the boring multi-thread trollish crap you' three are going on about.

Shall I sum up?
EricaP: I have bad experiences with men! I partially blame society!
HunterProf: Society is not at fault, it's your fault! Also I see women as conquests! Feminism sucks! *swings dick around*
Everyone else: That's awful! STFU!

About right? LETS MOVE ON THEN.
Posted by Caralain on February 24, 2011 at 4:46 PM · Report this
139
@129 "Nothing, as long as your man is willing to do stuff to "please his woman." Otherwise it's just rewarding bad behaviour."

-Ya I assumed we all knew the golden rule.

And I never said only women would assume a negative connotation. Can anyone ever just give a man the benefit of the doubt until he proves otherwise? Must we always preface "pleasure your man" with "If he's a nice guy".

I love Gloria Steinem as much as the next guy but give us some frickin credit already. We're tired of pretending to care about curtain colours, we just wanna be accepted as men again.
Posted by Chud on February 24, 2011 at 5:21 PM · Report this
sanguisuga 140
@133 Oh, sweetheart... Allow me to paraphrase/translate.

"You're just big fat ol' femi-nazi man-hating dykes! Moan, moan, bitch whine, why won't anybody love me?"

Darling, I love me some mens. I just hate assholes. Perhaps you should try harder to be a man, and not just a dick.
Posted by sanguisuga on February 24, 2011 at 7:52 PM · Report this
141
@138: HERE, HERE!
Posted by academiac on February 24, 2011 at 11:57 PM · Report this
142
@138 Here, here!
Posted by academiac on February 25, 2011 at 12:00 AM · Report this
143
I agree with some others re: Unforgiving...

Try anal!

Plus, it generates more santorum. ;)
Posted by BeingABear on February 25, 2011 at 1:30 AM · Report this
144
@138 I enjoy your comments but tangents are a large fraction of what goes on at The Stranger. Take a look at any other thread and you will see Canuck and Gloomy Gus having a private lovefest with each other that has nothing to do with the post (jeez guys! get a chatroom already). At least the off-topic conversation here is in keeping with SL as a category.
Posted by jenesasquatch on February 25, 2011 at 5:25 AM · Report this
145
I agree with Kariglitter! Wouldn't it be great if the first Google hit for "Rick Santorum" was Dan's definition?
Posted by Isabel on February 25, 2011 at 6:24 AM · Report this
146
http://www.northbynorthwestern.com/index…

Three columnists who love Savage Love and also love answering questions about sex.
Posted by Raunchy Rigo on February 25, 2011 at 7:10 AM · Report this
147
Hey Dan,

Just heard about the santorum thing again on Colbert's show. I just want to say I love you, man. Two thousand fucking three you did that? And it's STILL giving him fits?

That's just beautiful.

Posted by just a guy1111 on February 25, 2011 at 8:04 AM · Report this
148
Academiac:

It's 'Hear, Hear' - not 'here here'.
My penis helps me understand out 'patriarchal' tongue a little better.
I'll go back to reading my Hustler now. Smut writers have better grammar than the Stranger Hipster casualties commenting here about ruined vaginas and whatnot.

Posted by SleepingWithNannyState on February 25, 2011 at 1:37 PM · Report this
149
sanguisuga

I don't care about whether or not you sleep with men. I get mine on regularly.

Still though, you ever wonder why people vacation in places that AREN'T run by Feminist Elementary School Teachers? Nobody cares about veganism and organic panties except the special breed of daddy-haters that flock to the NW after reading Tom Robbins.
Posted by SleepingWithNannyState on February 25, 2011 at 1:43 PM · Report this
150
We need help translating the Santorum (sexual neologism) wikipedia page into foreign languages. Rick Santorum's page has currently been translated into 9 foreign languages, but Santorum (sexual neologism) only has one extra language.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Santorum_(s…)

Please help if you speak any major foreign language! Any meaningful page will influence google's search results for people speaking those languages, as google trusts wikipedia, and indirectly english too. Even a shortened version will help if you don't feel like translating the whole page.
Posted by Jef on February 25, 2011 at 5:41 PM · Report this
151
Okay, so now I'm worried about her - SNAZ. Do people ever write you back to tell you if they did or did not take your advice? I'd like to know if she is okay.
Posted by kok1922 on February 25, 2011 at 5:43 PM · Report this
152
We need help translating the Santorum (sexual neologism) wikipedia page into foreign languages. Rick Santorum's page has currently been translated into 9 foreign languages, but Santorum (sexual neologism) only has one extra language.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Santorum_(s…)

Please help if you speak any major foreign language! Any meaningful page will influence google's search results for people speaking those languages, as google trusts wikipedia, and indirectly english too. Even a shortened version will help if you don't feel like translating the whole page.
Posted by Jef on February 25, 2011 at 5:49 PM · Report this
153
We need help translating the Santorum (sexual neologism) wikipedia page into foreign languages. Rick Santorum's page has currently been translated into 9 foreign languages, but Santorum (sexual neologism) only has one extra language.

Please help if you speak any major foreign language! Any meaningful page will influence google's search results for people speaking those languages, as google trusts wikipedia, and indirectly english too. Even a shortened version will help if you don't feel like translating the whole page.
Posted by Jef on February 25, 2011 at 5:50 PM · Report this
154
Now I am worried about SNAZ. Dan, can you tell us if she responded to your advice? Is she okay?
Posted by kok1922 on February 25, 2011 at 5:55 PM · Report this
155
Today's Republican Party: different dicks may cum and go, but the santorum lasts forever!
Posted by former republican on February 25, 2011 at 6:14 PM · Report this
156
Ok, I think I've made a couple of honest efforts to promote the actual Dan Letters, but most people here insist on pursuing the gender war-- and, as I have said, the Letters are not that good.

The core of current feminist thinking seems to be if any hetero male really, really loves women, then obviously he really hates them. He's a misogynist. [All those who have called me that, raise your hands.] He's treating women differently than men. Against this argument I cannot win. I'm beaten. But I think my own arguments are better.
Posted by Hunter78 on February 25, 2011 at 6:25 PM · Report this
157
Does anyone else remember when this sex advice column was a sex advice column rather than a political pulpit?
Posted by GoodOlDays on February 25, 2011 at 7:34 PM · Report this
158
Treat yourself or your lover to a Lelo or JimmyJane sex toy at playtimeonline your uk online adult shop.
Posted by playtimeonline on February 26, 2011 at 2:49 AM · Report this
159 Comment Pulled (Spam) Comment Policy
160 Comment Pulled
161
badgirl,

"You might have meant something one way, but I interpreted it another."

My msg (#10) was meant to be provocative. EricaP has been going on for months about her situation. More recently I have been begun trying focus in on her unhappiness, and, misogynistically enough, argued she might have a role in it.

I thought my comment suggesting U's shredded kitty might explain Erica's lack of success was outrageous. It was an attempt at relevance to a Dan Letter-- and a shot of macabre humor. Surprisingly, afair, no one commented on it.

We've already discussed my "I feel differently..." comment. I felt stylistically a further explanation would not have improved the msg.

I thought my "conquest" line was bold, in part because, for all the sex discussed in the column, I almost never see anyone writing about how they actually psychologically feel about the sex act (beyond I like this or that). I didn't know I had a forbidden feeling. How do others really feel when they 1st fuck (or other) a new partner? Let me offer some possibilities for hetero men, analogs for others could constructed:

Thank you for allowing me this blessing.
Wheeeeeee!
How can my worthless maleness further serve you?
Oh, my dick feels good! Oh, my dick feels good! Oh, my dick feels good!
At last I've made the cosmic connection with my soul mate.
Do you have a tighter hole?

I see Erica is finally adjusting her position: "Yes, I should change my approach." I'm egotistical enough to think my needlings have had some effect.

Badgirl, thanks for at least reconsidering my post. The sign of an open mind.
Posted by Hunter78 on February 26, 2011 at 7:25 AM · Report this
162
Hunter78:

The gender war is never over, it's the curse of our species. The sexes don't LIKE each other they NEED each other out of biological necessity. People notice this more now because women are liberated and life spans have increased.

Marraige is dead. Men are now neuteres housepets. Who cares anyway? It wasn't that great of a deal to begin with. Stay Crafty. Men lie with words, and women lie with their affections. The French have known this forever.

Posted by SleepingWithNannyState on February 26, 2011 at 12:33 PM · Report this
SaucyLilMinx 163
My aussie friend journalist recommend me to read your column, he said that i could get inspiration what to write on my blog http://thechrom.blogspot.com . and he also said that we have very similar philosophy.. i believe him cos he's good friend of mine (sometimes :p ) so.. i subscribe to ur RSS... wanna read posts =)

***Saucy Li'l Minx***
Posted by SaucyLilMinx http://thechrom.blogspot.com on February 26, 2011 at 8:31 PM · Report this
164
Okay, I skipped the second half of the comments, because some of what I read above compelled me to put this out there:

Ladies, stop calling it being sex-positive when you're being slutty. No, random sex with strangers is NOT OKAY. I'm not religious, and I don't think you should wait until you're married or any of that hogwash. But letting a man you don't even KNOW stick his dick in you is dirty and trashy, not 'open-minded'.

I know men have been trying to convince you for years that you shouldn't be held back by some 'double standard', that you should feel free to have sex with anyone you find even mildly entertaining as soon as you meet them. But like so many other things men tell women to get them into bed, it's a lie.

Promiscuity spreads disease, it spreads drama, and it increases the likelihood of getting knocked up by some loser. Have a little respect for yourselves and your bodies. Would you put on a strangers shoe, use their used tissue, or hug them when they're dripping with sweat? Please don't act like a dirty skank and then excuse it with talk of being sex-positive.

Closer to HPV-positive, truth be told...
Posted by ClassNotTrash on February 26, 2011 at 11:23 PM · Report this
165
the redefining Santorum days with unfolding saga were brilliant and unforgettable. high 5's all around!
Posted by dawesberry on February 27, 2011 at 2:53 AM · Report this
166
SleepingWithNannyState,

"The sexes don't LIKE each other"

That's not me.

I like women.

I like their smell. I like their size. I like their beauty of face and form. I like their hair. I like their care. I like that they're not men.

Of course, I've learned now that these are simple signs of misogyny. I'll just have to learn to live with it.
Posted by Hunter78 on February 27, 2011 at 5:15 AM · Report this
167
EricaP,

I'd promised more, hopefully this is my end of it.

I see you're re-evaluating your position-- "Yes, I should change my approach." That's a good sign, but I'm skeptical about the success. Let me recap:

You've been repeating your situation for months. One day Hubby (about whom we know almost nothing) delivered the ultimatum-- the marriage will be open. You were devastated, hours of tears.

You decided to continue playing using the new rules to keep your marriage intact. You fucked 11 NSA guys recruited on the internet. All were losers, according to you. After these encounters you returned to Hubby's arms, and had the most awesome sex ever. Why was it so good?

Did he relish your panties still wet from another man's dripping cum?
Did you regale him with hot details of those loveless unions?
Did your return to him rebirth your monogamous relationship, however briefly?

I don't think you really can find these sidesteps satisfying (whatever your approach), because that would threaten your perception of single devotion to Hubby.

I think you want monogamy. Until you're willing to give up Hubby, you can't find it.
Posted by Hunter78 on February 27, 2011 at 6:06 AM · Report this
168
Aside from whether or not this is the place for someone in need of attention/therapy to get it on an ongoing basis... (months, really?)

There is a big difference between blaming the victim of any kind of assault and understanding that there are things you can do to avoid assault or make it less likely.

That is not to say it was anyone's fault. I teach martial arts. There are ways to minimize your perceived vulnerability. However, if your persona in sleeping with strangers is as a sub, you may not want to use them because they involve seeming in control. I applaud the decision to meet men in a context that keeps them accountable. Erica should also realize that many men on the internet can't get sex with a real woman any other way because they are clueless about any number of things. Such as that not all women do anal, the way it seems in porn. Many men actually believe that what they see in porn is real and they can act it out with whomever they are with.

This accounts for some at least being "shitty" in bed. I have been with somewhere between 40-50 men, several long-term, and only 10% were great in bed. Including that 10%, about one-third to 40% were good to good enough, half were utterly useless and a few (if you are following percentages, that would be around 10%) were so-so, involving an unusual amount of work on my part to make anything worthwhile happen. Sad but true.
Posted by femmeavecchien on February 27, 2011 at 10:20 AM · Report this
169
Back from fun vacation. Caralain & femmeavecchian, I regret that you find my year of marital crisis increasingly tiresome. I haven't found any other venue where experienced, intelligent people will listen to my anxieties around being trained as a hot wife by my loving husband/dom and provide helpful suggestions beyond just telling me to leave my marriage.

To those of you wondering why I don't just insist on coming first -- it's not really about my orgasms. I'm one of those tiresome women who don't come easily in new situations. Luckily, there are many other ways of pleasing me. I love flirting over drinks with new guys, making out in the parking lot or under a bridge, heading to their place hand-in-hand, going down on them, choking and drooling from having cock in my throat and a firm hand on my hair. I love massages, having my back scratched, light caresses, heavy floggings and any other form of physical contact that acknowledges my living soul. But I hate when the intercourse comes to a point where he's trying to get off, and I'm trying to get him off, and I'm just making these increasingly faked noises to try to get him to the edge. And we change position, but nothing works, he's no closer to orgasm, and I'm fed up. Eventually, he comes or he doesn't, and I leave.

I could refuse my husband what he asks of me, but the first half of these evenings is such fun. So I will be continuing to explore with new guys, seeing if there's a way for me to redirect the action before I get frustrated. Maybe if I abandon responsibility for his orgasm, I'll have a better time. If I think of the whole evening as an extended make-out session, with rubbing, and caressing, and licking and sucking... (NOT as an endurance event that failed unless it ended in explosion)... then I think maybe the guys and I will be better able to remember that we are people at play and not industrial machines at work.

And finally, to those calling for a return to the week's letters: I had a lot more that I could share about shredded kitties, and I bet other mothers do too. But -- @10 "Maybe we can imagine you with a prolapsed vag." Right there he ended any chance we had to open up the discussion to new voices. Actions have consequences.
More...
Posted by EricaP on February 27, 2011 at 11:06 AM · Report this
170
Actually, I see that other women weren't silenced from talking about their vaginal issues. So much the better. If any of you are still reading – do you have recommendations from among the kegel exercisers out there? (GyneFlex, Kegelmaster, Verseo, Kegel Pro, others?) It does seem as if kegels would be more effective with something to push against, and the ability to increase the resistance over time.
Posted by EricaP on February 27, 2011 at 11:45 AM · Report this
171
@164 - Care to explain why are you addressing women in particular?

Posted by EricaP on February 27, 2011 at 12:36 PM · Report this
172
Erica- Welcome back! Don't let anyone discourage you from this free and open forum. Especially not trolls. The Stranger doesn't seem to particularly care all that much about the comments section. People are free to ignore your comments if they want to anyway. I leave unregistered comments off and ignore certain commenters altogether.

To address where you might find a better forum for ongoing discussion of your personal issue you might consider alt.com. They have a variety of groups that have ongoing discussions about pretty much anything to do with BDSM. I wouldn't bother trying to hook up with anyone through the site directly though. You might find a munch in your area where you can get to know people in a safe environment.

SL is not a chat room and is not set up for people to establish personal connections. I certainly have my own issues that I would go into more detail with you privately but as far as I know there isn't a way to do that without broadcasting my email address to the world.
Posted by jenesasquatch on February 27, 2011 at 12:57 PM · Report this
173
Unforgiving, if you're still reading these comments, do yourself a favor and go straight to a urogynecological surgeon. I just recovered from surgery to repair rectal, vaginal, bladder, and perineal prolapses. I spent years suffering because 3 gynos in a row told me either that my problems were all in my head or that there was nothing that could be done to help me!! And I have great health insurance too - these guys were leaving money on the table by not knowing enough or caring enough to help fix the problem.

Keep searching until you find a doc competent to help you, get the repair done while you're still young, and get back to having a great sex life. Oh, and Kegels are not going to solve the problem, they'll just keep it from getting worse.
Posted by asses on February 27, 2011 at 1:54 PM · Report this
174
@172 - I'm on Alt & fetlife but find the sex advice here more useful. If you're on Alt yourself, you can contact me at the username EricaPSavage.
Posted by EricaP on February 27, 2011 at 2:14 PM · Report this
175
@174 That's nice of you. I'll think about it. Up until now I haven't wanted a paying account there for reasons you may already understand. Anyway without paying alt there is no way for me to email you on that site.
Posted by jenesasquatch on February 27, 2011 at 2:51 PM · Report this
nocutename 176
EricaP, ignore the hate-filled comments.
I think the journey you've been on this last year represents an admirable willingness to change and I appreciate your sharing your questions and difficulties.

As far as the bad sex you've had, I have to agree with femmeavecchien that many men are lousy lovers. I've slept with a lot and only a handful were any good. And sometimes there's not a lot that can be done to improve things, especially in a short-term relationship of NSA encounters. People who are motivated (either out of a genuine affection for their partners or just out of a sense of wanting to achieve proficiency) can learn what pleases their partners, but a one-time hookup rarely provides enough motivation.

Posted by nocutename on February 27, 2011 at 2:58 PM · Report this
177
@175 - Ack! good point! Ah well, try the same on gmail - that's free anyway :-)
Posted by EricaP on February 27, 2011 at 3:10 PM · Report this
178
"Don't let anyone discourage you from this free and open forum."

EricaP, please let me discourage you. This is NOT a 'free and open forum'. It is the comments section for the Savage Love column, and it is intended for people who want to comment on THE ARTICLE, not for you to air your anxieties about not being enough for your husband. That's too bad and all, but this ain't the Dr. Phil show. Please SHUT UP already, so we can comment on Dan's writing, not yours.

Please, please stop hijacking this thread with your personal issues. No one gives a fuck but Hunter, and he's just messing with you anyway. If your story were at all interesting, it would have its own column.

Perhaps I should spend the next hundred posts boring you with the details of my last dental check-up, or my latest recipe for brioche? Um, no, THIS ISN'T THE PLACE FOR THAT. GO AWAY ALREADY.
Posted by SoTiredOfEricasSelfAbsorbedWhining on February 27, 2011 at 3:40 PM · Report this
179
@178 lol. Can't wait to see your fascinating comments on the column. I hope you will continue to use that lovely alias so you get credit for all your brilliant insights. Also, you might try one of the kegel exercisers (see @170), in your continued efforts to get your head unstuck from its current location.

Posted by EricaP on February 27, 2011 at 4:19 PM · Report this
180
@ EricaP: And I couldn't wait to see other people's fascinating comments ON THE COLUMN. Maybe reply to some of their insights, have a conversation ABOUT THE COLUMN. Unfortunately, I didn't have time to wade through your pity party to pick them out.

THIS IS NOT YOUR PERSONAL THERAPY SESSION. Please go find somewhere more appropriate to dish about all the lousy sex you're having. I'm sure you've written to Dan about your problems, but there's a reason he hasn't published your letters: YOU'RE BORING. As endlessly fascinating as you find yourself, WE DON'T CARE ABOUT YOU. We come to this corner of the internet to discuss this advice column, not listen to you whine about how hard it is to find decent NSA sex. Like Hunter says, it's probably you. If you're this egotistical on the internet, that you will hijack these comments to be your personal blog, then you are probably just as self-absorbed in bed.

If you want to share your personal life with the internet, create YOUR OWN PAGE for it. This one already has a purpose, one which you are thwarting with your 'me-me-me' comments.
Posted by SoTiredOfEricasSelfAbsorbedWhining on February 27, 2011 at 5:43 PM · Report this
181
@180 Don't you and your ilk understand yet that the way to deal with trolls like me is to stop engaging us in conversation? If you ignore me, I fade away, if you engage with me, I win. It's Troll Management 101, and you're flunking.
Posted by EricaP on February 27, 2011 at 6:28 PM · Report this
182
Erica, you're not a troll. You're just another desperate, pathetic woman who will do anything to hang onto the man in her life.

You and your husband vowed to be monogamous, once upon a time. And while you are content with that (as most women are), your husband still wants to bang other women (as most of them do). So you let him emotionally blackmail you into an 'open relationship'. But what you have isn't an open relationship. You have an asshole husband who wants to have his cake and eat it, too. Real poly guys don't promise monogamy and then change their mind later and threaten to leave you if you don't let them bang other women.

I'm sorry your life is a mess and you married a douchebag, and I hope you wise up and leave your husband and find a man who actually wants the same thing as you. But in the meantime, could you post about your personal life somewhere elsewhere. This page actually had an INTERESTING topic before you hijacked it.

Your sad, sad story is a dime a dozen. I come here to read comments about Dan's column, not your pathetic angst.
Posted by SoTiredOfEricasSelfAbsorbedWhining on February 27, 2011 at 7:16 PM · Report this
183
click on that santorum link people!
Posted by gygyu on February 27, 2011 at 7:28 PM · Report this
184
@182 - still feeding me, I see. Not sure why you'd throw out a marriage which has lasted 15 years, produced cute kids, and yields much laughter, love, conversation and hot sex.

But you've piqued my interest. Which interesting topic did you look forward to discussing? The cross-dresser imagining that his small dick used to be a clit? The mom with the shredded kitty? The ginger cocktail? Or the santorum meme?

Tell you what, you post your opinion about one or more of those topics, and I'll stay on topic for the rest of the week. But sign it with your SoTired alias, so I know it's you.
Posted by EricaP on February 27, 2011 at 8:50 PM · Report this
185
@182 - btw, monogamy wasn't in our vows.
Posted by EricaP on February 27, 2011 at 8:53 PM · Report this
186
@185 Great point. Somehow it doesn't make it into the vows but if you fuck someone else it's over.
Posted by jenesasquatch on February 28, 2011 at 6:25 AM · Report this
187
2 medical questions and a cocktail recipe. Come on, Dan. Where's the good stuff?
Posted by EddieMoney on February 28, 2011 at 7:55 AM · Report this
188
Got it, jenesasquatch. :-)
Posted by EricaP on February 28, 2011 at 8:43 AM · Report this
189
Sure it's tiresome, Erica. You have exhibitionistic needs that not everyone is into, and which show boundary issues that probably make you vulnerable in ways you don't realize -- but what is worse is that you are not getting here the real guidance that you need. Intelligent, experienced people, yes. But we not therapists. I'm not familiar with alt.com, as jenesasquatch mentioned, but you might check it out to see if there are resources there for you.

In my experience teaching martial arts to women, e.g., I find some women are just not psychologically ready for self-defense. It's hard to handle this. I try to keep them practicing, but they usually leave. It's too challenging and they could probably use some therapy to deal with it. While I am not a therapist, I wish them and you well on your path.
Posted by femmeavecchien on February 28, 2011 at 9:15 AM · Report this
190
@189 What is the evidence that I need therapy? The fact that I have sex with strangers, or that I post about it here? I'm trying to improve my skills in my current hobby (NSA sex), and therefore sought out an internet site which has quite a few people who are more advanced than I am in this hobby. My posts apparently don't flout any Stranger policies, since they haven't been pulled.

There are so many, many of you who want to discuss something else, not my life -- go ahead. Who's stopping you? Slog threads are perfectly capable of maintaining two conversations at the same time.
Posted by EricaP on February 28, 2011 at 10:09 AM · Report this
191
@188 Great. Talk to you soon.
Posted by jenesasquatch on February 28, 2011 at 10:41 AM · Report this
192
@189 "some ... are just not psychologically ready for self-defense"

Yes, that's an excellent observation. Learned helplessness is a serious problem for people who have experienced long-term abuse.
Posted by jenesasquatch on February 28, 2011 at 10:46 AM · Report this
Backyard Bombardier 193
@190: "There are so many, many of you who want to discuss something else, not my life -- go ahead."

Oh no, EricaP, that's not how it goes. Everyone has a God-given right not to be exposed to blog comments that do not directly and personally interest them. After all, everyone knows that failure to read every single comment on a blog post leads to a potentially fatal brain imbalance. Why, having loaded the page, poor @182 had to read every single word on it. How thoughtless of you to assume that he could simply skip over the stuff he didn't want to read?

And, of course, having been required by the simple facts of his brain chemistry to read your posts, he then had to restore his sanity's delicate balance by posting at least three times about how uninteresting your posts were and how little he cared about them.

Please, EricaP - think of the children.
Posted by Backyard Bombardier on February 28, 2011 at 10:56 AM · Report this
194
Bwahaha! Backyard Bombardier, I so heard Helen Lovejoy just then!

Eh, Erica's love life is way more interesting then the boring letters this week, as much as I love Dan. And since I am at work, all those fetish sites, the filter catches and blocks, and Savage Love comes right through (shhhh! don't tell!).

Perhaps if the next round of letters are a bit more scandelous, it will be easier to stay on topic for a dirty little slut like moi!! ;). Bring on the poo-eaters! A GGG drink, really? How the hell does one discuss anyway? zzzzzzzzzzzzz

Posted by badgirl on February 28, 2011 at 11:11 AM · Report this
growler 195
It's official, you fuckers have no life!
Posted by growler on February 28, 2011 at 11:32 AM · Report this
196
Erica, I didn't have a specific comment about the letter. You see, by the time I usually read this column, the points I wanted to make have been made by someone else, frequently more eloquently. Generally, if I don't have something to add to the conversation, I don't say anything. And sometimes points are made that I disagree with, but they are well-stated, and they make me rethink my own position. That's why I read these comments.

There are always plenty of off-topic nonsense posts, but yours seem particularly self-serving, which is why I lashed out and was rude to you, and I apologize for that. Despite your making it public, I shouldn't be commenting on your private life. It's really none of my business. (BTW, this isn't a Slog thread, this is the Savage Love column. You might have an easier time staying on-topic if you knew what the topic was supposed to be.)

BB, you're right, I don't *have* to read every single post. I don't *have* to read any of them. But ignoring Erica's personal drama isn't as easy as skipping her posts, I have to read the others to know whether they're on-topic or not. And I didn't feel like wading through a lengthy conversation about some married slut's sex life to find the comments that are actually about Dan Savage's advice column.

You see, Dan's writing is why we come read this page, not Erica's. This isn't her personal blog. She's hijacking this thread because it has an intelligent, experienced audience, one that she could never drum up on her own merits. Or maybe she IS that interesting- what the hell do I know? But if she is, she should have no trouble starting her own blog, or a thread on alt.com as others have suggested, and building an audience that cares about what she has to say. The rest of us are here to talk about Dan's writing, not Erica's sex life.

Erica, let me make you a different deal. This thread's already sunk, there's no possibility of finding the wheat in the chaff of these comments. But I will promise to show up early next week and post my fascinating, insightful comments ABOUT THE COLUMN, and you can post yours, and we can leave your personal life elsewhere. You could even post a link to your new blog or thread, and if you like I will give you my thoughts there (since you seem so intent on me knowing about your sex life). And then anyone who actually finds you interesting enough to read about can do it somewhere that's about YOU, and those who are interested in SAVAGE LOVE can talk about that here.

Sound fair?
More...
Posted by StillSoTiredButTryingToBePolite on February 28, 2011 at 11:41 AM · Report this
197
@193 grin
@194 why does everyone always think of the poo-eaters? Are they so damn fascinating? Ick.
@195 as opposed to you? :-)

@196 Aw, you can't even name which interesting topic it was that you were dying to read comments about? Criminy. But, sure, okay, if you post your on-topic comments within 48 hours of Dan posting the next SL column, I'll stick to your deal. Remember to use the same alias, so I can recognize you. But if you're AWOL and people are asking me questions about my marriage... I'm only human.
Posted by EricaP on February 28, 2011 at 12:49 PM · Report this
198
Long time Dan reader here, common terminology from fans to just describe the general freaks. :P

Frankly, I read his column for pervy fun, rather then health issues or political activism, which he seems hell bent on pushing lately. Sure, I am a huge supporter of gay rights, and want everyone to engage in safe sex practices. BUT....not the reason I come here. "Poo-eaters" however, is just how many long time readers refer to the TRULY freaky (and in my mind, TRULY fascinating and bizarre) reading!

BRING ON THE FREAKS!!! C'mon man, I want stories either I can relate to, or ones that will shock the shit/amuse/horrify outta me....poo-eating definitely qualifies for the latter catagory. Why I started reading Dan as opposed to Dear Prudence anyway. I will admit to having no life, at least here at work, and want a little amusement, heheh.
Posted by badgirl on February 28, 2011 at 1:05 PM · Report this
199
EricaP: (cross-posted from last week) I don't know about other guys, but I like intercourse for 45 minutes because I prefer 45 minutes of pleasure to 15 minutes of pleasure! The better the girl is in bed, or the more attractive she is, the longer I'd want it to go...

From your earlier post it sounds like you need an "intermission" of fingers or tongue after 10 or 15 minutes of intercourse or it doesn't work for you: do you make this clear to guys? Do you tell them you need to stop and they need to eat you for a while and then they can continue? Either there are a lot of guys who are bad in bed or you're just not being clear enough about what you need.

I'm not sure there will be a big difference if you torture yourself by making yourself wait longer for sex while you build up a friendship: if he's bad in bed or doesn't listen, that probably won't change much.
Posted by BlackRose on February 28, 2011 at 4:56 PM · Report this
200
Erica, it's not necessarily that I want to read (or make) comments about an interesting *topic*, I want to read interesting *comments* about the topics covered in the column. I never know what interesting point someone will make until I read it. But the topics here (the letters and Dan's answers) are pre-selected (by Dan) for interesting-ness, which your sex life is not. Compared to Savage Love, your situation seems rather pedestrian.

I just get tired of sorting through the off-topic comments- of which there are plenty that are not yours, yours were just a convenient target for my ire, as there are so many of them.

48 hours is very generous, thank you. I will certainly check in before then. And like I said, please post a link to your own blog or thread, and I will be happy to comment on you in an appropriate forum. I'm sure there are others here who would, as well.
Posted by SoTiredWillSeeYouNextWeek on February 28, 2011 at 5:16 PM · Report this
201
@199 - please refrain from bringing posts over from other threads. It irritates the local fauna. I read it there, and it didn't apply to my life. (See @169 for more info on how I don't want to tell a guy to press here or insert there, I want to feel like a person having fun with another person. Laughing, talking, along with the sex.)

@200 Trust me when I say that I have no interest in your comments on my life. I asked you to post because I don't believe you have anything to say about sex, at all. I am waiting eager for you to prove me wrong.
Posted by EricaP on February 28, 2011 at 5:51 PM · Report this
202
"Debby once attacked me with a vulva puppet in a room full of people."

video, or it didn't happen.
Posted by happyhedonist on February 28, 2011 at 9:33 PM · Report this
gregok 203
@SNAZ time to Butch up and speak to the Doc

And in other news... "SANTORUMSLIDE!"
Posted by gregok on March 1, 2011 at 2:07 AM · Report this
204
@201: No, there's nothing wrong with repeating a comment from an old thread, and I don't really care what irritates the stupid trolls.

I definitely think that not taking responsibility for someone else's orgasm is a good idea. As you probably know, some guys just can't come from intercourse sometimes, regardless of anything you do. I like the "extended make out session" idea :)

I would hope you could do both: talk and laugh with someone as well as tell them what pleases you. I mean, don't you always have to tell a partner what pleases you or what you want them to do?
Posted by BlackRose on March 1, 2011 at 3:06 AM · Report this
205
EricaP, clearly the thread is becoming a bit judgmental. I'm sorry it has taken this tone, and I hope you don't take it too personally. People sometimes just care so much about their specific preferences and dos and don'ts, they forget that what's on the other side of these posts are... other people. I hope none of it has hurt seriously your feelings, and I really hope people will be able to avoid offensive tones while discussing other people's lives.
Posted by ankylosaur on March 1, 2011 at 3:37 AM · Report this
206
As a final note, let me hope that your NSA sex experiences will improve in quality, and that both you and your husband will enjoy them. Communication helps--as I posted before, a lover's efforts can be helped if you tell him what you like (assuming you know it already, and assuming he does listen).

Unlike several others here, I have nothing against you sharing your experiences here, asking for help and/or advice, or simply exchanging information: I am perfectly capable of skipping the posts I don't want to read and paying attention only to the ones I do.
Posted by ankylosaur on March 1, 2011 at 4:15 AM · Report this
207
does no one here question the kegel myth?
http://mamasweat.blogspot.com/2010/05/pe…
Posted by ellarosa on March 1, 2011 at 5:38 AM · Report this
208
Dan--thanks for posting some advice for the women folk!
Possible solution for Unforgiving and I hope I'm not stating the obvious. I sort of had the same problem as Unforgiving. My partner would get me off first then while I was starting to come, he would suddenly enter me. My vag was tighter during climax and this made him come faster. It was pretty exciting for me, too. If Unforgiving's partner doesn't need to take too long, then maybe this would work? (My guy was a literal 3 pump chump.)
Posted by jollygolightly on March 1, 2011 at 8:12 AM · Report this
209
@204/206 - I think, for me, the helpful parts moving forward:
1) Abdicating responsibility for his orgasm.
2) Trying to know each other as people, not as sex dolls (so, yes, building some friendship first so that we have something to laugh/talk about)
3) Remembering to think in my head "What do I want now?" so I can redirect effectively. Communication with myself is more the problem.
4) Trying to cultivate an atmosphere of mutual exploration and fun. I'm not a machine that will come if you push here twenty times in a row.

Look at this, from a recent Salon interview with Terri Conley http://www.salon.com/life/feature/2011/0…
Sociologist Elizabeth Armstrong has shown that women do not feel entitled to sexual pleasure in casual heterosexual encounters. They seem to be more focused on providing the male partner with pleasure.

I resemble that remark.
Posted by EricaP on March 1, 2011 at 10:20 AM · Report this
210
@207 - OMG. you just blew my mind. No more kegels? Squats instead? But which helps for squeezing the penis during intercourse? The scientist in that interview is interested in bladder control; I wonder what she would say about vaginal control.
Posted by EricaP on March 1, 2011 at 10:25 AM · Report this
211
@204 - "don't you always have to tell a partner what pleases you or what you want them to do?"

Here's a question. Do men ever take that upon themselves? I've rarely had a guy tell me what I should do to please him. Besides my husband, I think I've never heard the words "I wish you would..." (or their equivalents) come out of a guy's mouth.

Men always say women should give better verbal instructions, but are the men giving such great instructions themselves? In my experience, it's all done through body language, unless we're talking BDSM where things are explicitly negotiated. Do the rest of you have experience with men asking, out loud, for specific actions?
Posted by EricaP on March 1, 2011 at 11:40 AM · Report this
212
@ #10: Are you available to give my husband some lessons? He's so afraid of "hurting" me that for the ten years we've been married I've felt virtually nothing at all during sex: certainly nothing physically, but's what's worse is feeling no sense of his desire to possess me EMOTIONALLY. Don't get me wrong, he's a good, KIND man...but I fear that I may have vastly overcompensated for my genuinely physically and emotionally abusive previous husband by marrying a man too sexually gentle to ever satisfy my need for something much more assertive.
Posted by NOYGDB on March 1, 2011 at 12:17 PM · Report this
213
@204: A GREAT argument for the BDSM model of sexual pre-negotiation for EVERYONE!

The best sex I ever had with a previously-vanilla guy was when he asked me, when after a few dates it became obvious that we were going to end up in bed sooner rather than later, "What do you like? If we're going to do this I want it to be good." That, of course, made it utterly painless (all reverse puns intended!) for me to tell him I liked it rough...AND for me to ask him inreturn for the same sort of explicit disclosure of preferences that makes responsible BDSM pairings so delightlfully free of ambiguity and the potential for real emotional damage.

Vanillas, get a clue: WHATEVER you need sexually, talk it out BEFORE YOU BEGIN --- that way NOBODY wastes time, hurts feelings or has their own feelings hurt, or lets things get as far as moving to another region sight unseen to be with someone you've never even seen let alone fucked (yes, this actually happens: I can name four female friends in the past ten years who have done exactly this, with horrid consequences...the one other friend for whom it did work out was PURE LUCK: a freak exception, NOT "the rule").
Posted by NOYGDB on March 1, 2011 at 12:27 PM · Report this
214
@211 (EricaP), who wrote: Sociologist Elizabeth Armstrong has shown that women do not feel entitled to sexual pleasure in casual heterosexual encounters. They seem to be more focused on providing the male partner with pleasure.

Sufficiently many (about 50%) of the women I went to bed fit this pattern for me to agree it's very widespread; they were more concerned with what I wanted than with what they wanted, and were somewhat surprised that I wanted to know what they wanted rather than what I wanted. They reacted at first as if I wasn't supposed to ask, or as if I should guess, or... as if pleasing me were the point. Which to me has a slightly mood-killing, let's-just-get-done-with-it-shall-we-honey taste. To me that's a pity, since I frankly don't really enjoy it (not anymore than I enjoy masturbation) unless I can service her, too. Or else isn't it just like masturbation with porn? (Nothing against that; but if I'm with a real person, it's an opportunity for trying something I can't get by myself with porn.)

Do men ever take that upon themselves? I've rarely had a guy tell me what I should do to please him. Besides my husband, I think I've never heard the words "I wish you would..." (or their equivalents) come out of a guy's mouth.
I don't know much about other men -- since I'm not bi and I've never been in an MMF threesome, I've actually never seen a real, non-porn man other than myself having sex; but I certainly am able to tell what I like or don't like. The fact that I have a few kinks does make talking mandatory -- no talkin', no getting'. But even for more parochial things like blowjobs--some girls aren't that experienced (or hadn't met me before, choose the best alternative) and didn't really stimulate me well. In those occasions, I did go "OK honey, but can you perhaps do it like this and like this? It'll be so much better!..." or something like that.

If things go smoothly, there's no need for much talking. I would expect a man to at least say something if what he and his partner are doing isn't pleasant to him, though. Don't they usually? If you do something to a guy that he doesn't like, won't he at least tell you that?

More...
Posted by ankylosaur on March 1, 2011 at 1:04 PM · Report this
215
I REALLY wish someone who had some computer skills would just set up a damn forum already.
Posted by Caralain on March 1, 2011 at 1:14 PM · Report this
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@212, have you tried standing next to him while he flogs the bed, and encouraging him to hit harder and harder? If he gets used to the feeling without a person involved, he may be able to transfer that to your back. Similarly, when training a guy to squeeze nipples harder, it can help to talk it out with him pinching your arm harder and harder. Gives 'em a taste of what you're talking about, in a clear, non-sexual way.

@214 I did carve out an exception for kinky guys :-)
Posted by EricaP on March 1, 2011 at 2:33 PM · Report this
217
@210: This is just a specific example of the problem of muscle imbalance. For instance, if you work your upper body but not your lower body muscles, you can have knee problems. If you work your kegels extensively, but don't work any of the surrounding muscles, this can also cause problems. It's not that you shouldn't do kegels, it's that you should never intensively work only one muscle in isolation.

There's a few different muscles (the whole pelvic muscle group actually) that can squeeze the penis: kegels work the PC muscle which is one of them.
Posted by BlackRose on March 1, 2011 at 6:01 PM · Report this
218
@217 So - squats and kegels? Are there others? Do I need to drag myself to a gym?
Posted by EricaP on March 1, 2011 at 6:51 PM · Report this
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@11: BRAVO!!!! I could NOT have said it better myself!!!! You GO!!!
Posted by auntie grizelda on March 1, 2011 at 7:42 PM · Report this
220
@31: Alas, Professor Santorum, who earned his teaching certification out of a Crackerjack box, demonstrates once again that he doesn't know squat.
Posted by auntie grizelda on March 1, 2011 at 7:46 PM · Report this
221
Dan Savage is a stupid queer!
Posted by jj17 on March 1, 2011 at 10:08 PM · Report this
222
@221 He's rubber, you're glue, what you say bounces off him and sticks to you.
Nyah nyah.
Posted by EricaP on March 2, 2011 at 8:41 AM · Report this
223
@218: I don't think you need to panic. A lot of women do kegels regularly and most don't have pelvic floor problems.

That said, doing squats, abs, and leg exercises and stretches will definitely complement kegels and make your sex life better, as well as improving your health, mood, stamina, and energy level. Everyone should be going to the gym regularly, though you can do stretches and exercises like squatting and planks at home without any equipment needed.
Posted by BlackRose on March 3, 2011 at 3:11 AM · Report this
224
I “wildly disagree” that either prolapse or a loose vagina can be “fixed” with A&P repair. For over 100 years women have been subjected to these surgeries, which are fraught with risk and failure, because uninformed people like Herbenick promote them.

Neither kegels nor surgery will fix a loose vagina. Kegels are simply the wrong concept. The way to tighten a vagina is to stretch the pelvic floor to its full dimensions so the genital hiatus closes like a pair of elevator doors. This is accomplished by lifting the tailbone, which over time will realign fascial planes. These are postural problems that can be dramatically improved by changing the skeletal framework from which the vagina suspends.

It is the highly specialized connective tissue (fascia) surrounding the pelvic organs and vaginal walls that allow the organs and their channels to slide past one another as they perform their various functions. Anterior and posterior colporrhaphy dissect through the fascial layers so the bladder and front vaginal wall, and rectum and back vaginal wall, become fused. No longer can the organs move independently, but are obliged to move as one block. The urogynecologic literature states that women who have had prolapse surgery stand a 500% increased risk of onset of new symptoms. These are often far more severe than the original condition. And there is no further surgical “fix”. Women are frequently left devastated, in pain, and with serious defacatory dysfunction for the rest of their lives.

Ms. Herbenick is correct that the new vaginal rejuvenation surgeries are “quite similar” to A&P repairs. The failure rates are the same and the risks are the same. These operations should never be performed on women.

Christine Kent, Whole Woman, Inc.
Posted by Moonspinner http://www.wholewoman.com on March 3, 2011 at 5:20 PM · Report this
225
I “wildly disagree” that either prolapse or a loose vagina can be “fixed” with A&P repair. For over 100 years women have been subjected to these surgeries, which are fraught with risk and failure, because uninformed people like Herbenick promote them.

Neither kegels nor surgery will fix a loose vagina. Kegels are simply the wrong concept. The way to tighten a vagina is to stretch the pelvic floor to its full dimensions so the genital hiatus closes like a pair of elevator doors. This is accomplished by lifting the tailbone, which over time will realign fascial planes. These are postural problems that can be dramatically improved by changing the skeletal framework from which the vagina suspends.

It is the highly specialized connective tissue (fascia) surrounding the pelvic organs and vaginal walls that allows the organs and their channels to slide past one another as they perform their various functions. Anterior and posterior colporrhaphy dissect through the fascial layers so the bladder and front vaginal wall, and rectum and back vaginal wall, become fused. No longer can the organs move independently, but are obliged to move as one block. The urogynecologic literature states that women who have had prolapse surgery stand a 500% increased risk of onset of new symptoms. These are often far more severe than the original condition. And there is no further surgical “fix”. Women are frequently left devastated, in pain, and with serious defacatory dysfunction for the rest of their lives.

Ms. Herbenick is correct that the new vaginal rejuvenation surgeries are “quite similar” to A&P repairs. The failure rates are the same and the risks are the same. These operations should never be performed on women.

Christine Kent, Whole Woman, Inc.
More...
Posted by Moonspinner http://www.wholewoman.com on March 3, 2011 at 5:27 PM · Report this
226
@225 - I have no knowledge about surgery for prolapse or loose vaginas. But I myself had a 2nd degree tear, which was stitched up incredibly badly (the swelling made the tissue hard to sort out at the time). The doctor I saw afterwards refused to treat my sexual dysfunction, except with a dilator. And I didn't know enough to insist.

When my second kid was born, I explained the situation ahead of time to the OB, and she was able (during the birth process) to unfold and fix what had been folded over and stitched the wrong way. (It helped that everything was calmer during the 2nd birth because I'd had an epidural.)

Bottom line: intercourse had sucked for me for three years between children, and then it was hugely better once the repair was made. That's a vote for some surgical repairs, though again, I have no opinion about surgery for prolapse.
Posted by EricaP on March 4, 2011 at 11:53 AM · Report this
227
@ 225, can you point to any other studies that agree with yours? It makes some sense, but I feel like I can't specifically trust the word of someone who sells DVDs on the subject. Could you point me towards some literature on the subject?
Posted by Caralain on March 5, 2011 at 3:12 PM · Report this
228
Forgiving - after severe 4th degree tearing and reconstructive surgery from a vaginal birth - (note to the younger women out there: When your OB offers an episiotomy and forceps because he is late for a c-section delivery? Refuse!)

Nothing ever goes back quite the same and nerve damage sucks. Luckily we finally tried anal sex and we much prefer it now. Even if you didn't enjoy it before, give it another try and you may discover it is actually better than vaginal intercourse for you both now.
Posted by Mquest on March 5, 2011 at 5:05 PM · Report this
229
You know, the way I found out about santorum was that I heard someone use it, and asked what it meant. They explained the "frothy mixture thing" and we all laughed. I thought perhaps this term had been in use all along, and I'd merely never heard of it. For all I knew, it could be a term from the middle ages.

Having a hobby interest in etymology, I eventually decided to look it up. And then when I discovered the origin of the word, I laughed, and laughed, and laughed.

Heck, even if you type in his whole name, the Wikipedia entry is still the second hit - and far above his own official site.

I hope you realize you've added a lot of joy to a lot of people's days. And hey! New word! How many people get to take credit for a true neologism? I'll bet this one will be in use for generations, long after the ex-senator is forgotten. Or is only remembered as "the guy whose name means..."
Posted by Sungmanitu on March 8, 2011 at 9:23 PM · Report this

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