Savage Love Podcast
Check out the all new Savage Lovecast site!
Got a question for Dan Savage?
Call the Savage Love Podcast at 206-201-2720
or email Dan at mail@savagelove.net.
Savage Love Archives
-
Jun 5
Husbanding -
May 29
Amazing Guys -
May 22
Closure -
May 15
Shorties -
May 8
Reading Comprehension Fail
More from Dan Savage
-
SL Letter of the Day: The Tell-Tale Handjob
-
Youth Pastor Watch
-
WSJ Asks: If I Could Require One Person to Read American Savage, Who Would It Be and Why?
-
SLLOTD: Campus Drama
-
SLLOTD: Blessed be the Ties that Bind
Books by Dan Savage
American Savage
It Gets Better: Coming Out, Overcoming Bullying, and Creating a Life Worth Living
The Commitment: Love, Sex, Marriage, and My Family
Things I've Learned from Women Who've Dumped Me
Skipping Towards Gomorrah
The Kid: What Happened After My Boyfriend and I Decided to Go Get Pregnant
Savage Links
- Babeland
- Fleshbot
- Good Vibrations
- Joe Newton/Savage Illustrations
- Planned Parenthood
- Spreading Santorum
- Planned Parenthood's Teen Wire
- Kinsey Confidential
- Carnal Nation
- Tiny Nibbles
Want a Second Opinion?
Contact Dan Savage
Savage on YouTube
Paid Off
October 23, 2008
Once again, Savage Love is given over to letters from readers who made the largest donations to the campaigns to preserve marriage equality in California (www.noonprop8.com), protect same-sex couples in Florida (www.sayno2.com), and defeat Stephen Harper in Canada (better luck next time). I neglected to ask readers to donate to the campaign against an anti-gay-marriage amendment in Arizona (it's not too late: www.votenoprop102.com), because I am a bad, bad man.
When I met my girlfriend, she had recently quit smoking. She knew from the beginning that smoking is a deal breaker for me, but despite the encouragement from me and all her friends, she keeps having "lapses." I haven't dumped her over this because we live far apart at the moment. However, I feel firmly that we can't take the next step—one of us moving to be with the other—until she kicks this habit for good. She has always insisted that she wants to, and she knows how much smoking bothers me. But at what point will I know if she has finally quit? My fear is that there will always be another "lapse" coming. She is so great in every other way that I don't want to blow her off prematurely, and I want her to quit for her own health, too. Am I being an unreasonable perfectionist?
Do Not Use My Name
Here's my bought-and-paid-for advice, DNUMN: Beware the smoker who stops—or "quits"—just long enough to convince you that her smoking days are behind her and then, once you're living together or married or otherwise hopelessly entangled, suddenly experiences one final and everlasting "lapse." Be clear and up front, DNUMN: Smoking is a deal breaker if she moves across the country to live with you, it's a deal breaker if you marry her, it's a deal breaker now, it's a deal breaker forever.
I don't have a question. I have a story to share. My parents had an unusual strategy for sex education. Instead of picking a day to have a birds-bees discussion, they first explained all the mechanics of the penis/vagina/uterus/baby when I was 6 months old. This was to give them practice. Then, as I got older, any question I asked that was moderately related to sex resulted in me getting the whole of the penis/vagina/uterus/baby story again.
Fast-forward to sophomore year. While playing a drinking game, people were asked to retell the story of when they got The Talk. But I never got The Talk because I grew up with it. So on winter break, I demanded The Talk from my dad. He came up with a few quips—sex is easy, sleeping in the same bed is hard. But the next day my mother pulled me aside.
"So I understand that you and your father had a conversation yesterday," my delightfully WASP-y and cheerful mother said.
"Um, yeah—"
"I want you to forget everything he said and remember this. Whatever you're doing, do it slower. Whatever you're doing, do it softer. And whatever you're doing, ask more questions."
She turned around and walked away as I picked up my jaw from my floor.
J.
I don't want to contradict your mother, J., but for the record: Some folks like it fast and hard, and prefer the barked orders to the thoughtful questions. But thanks for sharing....
I am a bisexual woman in a nonmonogamous marriage with a lesbian. We met one Sunday afternoon through an ad in our local alternative newsweekly. It was supposed to be a booty call, but Jennifer is so smart, witty, and plain good that I had to have some more of her and her milky-white breasts.
The sex started off fantastic—and eight years later we've had lots of sex toys, some gents and ladies on the side, and a few sex parties, and we are just as passionate and creative in bed as ever. We respect each other's sexual autonomy as well as our own relationship. Domestically, we are very compatible and even agree on how to spend our money: good causes, traveling, and a Tempur-Pedic bed. Things are fantastic. My question: How can I be any more smug?
Holly
You've stumped me, Holly.
I'm an American man but I'm writing from Canada, where my husband and I live. Please remind everyone that even though defeating Prop 8 is vital, getting rid of the federal "Defense of Marriage Act" is equally important. My hubby cannot live in the USA with me until DOMA is repealed no matter what happens in California. Many people don't get that state and federal marriage laws are two different things.
Okay, here's our pressing question: What is the proper threesome etiquette once the good times are over? What do you do with your third? I say we should roll over and make room in the bed, while my husband thinks we should (nicely) toss the guy out. What say you?
Married And Gay In Canada
I'm with your partner, MAGIC, unless...
If it's pissing rain outside or freezing cold, or if you live in a neighborhood that's unsafe to stroll through alone at 4:00 a.m., or if your third ditched his friends—and his ride—to come home with you, MAGIC, offer to let your third stay the night. But no third worth inviting back will accept, of course, because a good third knows to say thanks and get out—or eat it and beat it—so that his hosts can decompress, check in with each other, and resume the open, flagrant, unselfconscious farting that characterizes all long-term relationships.
Could you mention my recycled T-shirt website, Teecycle.org, in the column? Here's how the site works: Every day I post a new (used) shirt. Each one costs $7 and a dollar of that goes to restoring urban rivers.
Tim Cigelske
I don't see the connection between urban rivers and used T-shirts, Tim, and urban rivers are in serious trouble if we're restoring them one-dollar-per-used-T-shirt-at-a-time, but thanks for the donation and here's your plug.
Well, hey, that was fun! But next week I'll be selecting letters using my tried-and-true method: Sit in a bar, read a few hundred e-mails, respond to ones I find interesting/appalling/nauseating. And to the hundreds of folks who made donations and are waiting on personal responses from me: I'm overwhelmed. Perhaps I should have made the cutoff for advice $100, not $25. I'll get to everybody, I swear, but it's going to take a week or two. But everyone who made a donation will hear from me before we all go to the polls on November 4 and vote for Barack Obama.
Download the Savage Lovecast (my weekly podcast) every Tuesday at www.thestranger .com/savage.
Share via
On a side note, Dan please, please, please have your tech-savvy at-risk youth put up an rss feed for your column. And correct my spellign. And perhaps an rss feed of just your slog postings. And pie. With whipped cream. And Cherries.
SO FUCKING TRUE.
You are not alone! A like minded co-worker recently made an interesting point about voting for a Democratic Presidential candidate here. Despite the fact there's no chance the Dems will take Texas, if, Jebus-forbid, McCain wins, at the very least our votes will make him less able to call it a "mandate."
I actually liked these letters, they represented real issues. Can`t wait for next week!
Take your time, Dan. The thought of a personal response a) from someone like you b) on an issue as fucked up as the one I wrote about is worth the wait.
I'm with Karey. I smoked for like 3 months two years ago, and I still get a strong urge to smoke again when I'm around smoking people or I look at the cigarette display behind the counter at 7-11. Quitting is hard. But don't claim something is a dealbreaker and then act like maybe it sort of isn't. Either you can stand it or you can't. And you have to stand by whatever decision you make.
http://feeds.villagevoice.com/articles/savage_love
Found it through the Livejournal syndication page; if you want that feed, it's here:
http://syndicated.livejournal.com/savagelove/
Thanks for the reminder about No On 8. My new Sister-in-law just remarried, (CA annulled the first), and had requested donations for wedding gifts. Your column spurred me into donating in time.
Although Dan is undeniably awesome, there are plenty of other feed-worthy posts on Slog by folks that are not Dan. But I second the vote for an RSS feed for the column itself.
If DNUMN's gf can't wrap her brain around the idea that he doesn't want her smoking period then he should just DTMFA. I've seen people die because of smoking and I can understand it being a deal-breaker (it is for me too). If she can't respect that and find a way to quit, there are patches, drugs, cold-turkey without anymore lapses, then maybe she needs to be dumped over it. For her own health.
But even so, and even if some people can quit without any lapses, I just think those people who can are few and far between and he's perhaps demanding too much perfection. She first quit before she met him, so its not like he's her only motivation. If she ever decided at some point to give up on the quitting, as Dan warns, that would be the deal breaker to me.
"Smoking is a deal breaker?
...
If you're this uptight, good luck dealing with all the other challenges that marriage throws at you. What a fascist. "
So...having boundaries = fascism? I know some people who are okay with partners who smoke, with or without restrictions (like, only outside, never in the car, etc.). I know some people for whom it's a dealbreaker--heck, I've dated a few people who've outright said that. And...none of them are fascists, and most of them are at least as well equipped as you are to deal with the other challenges of a relationship. Having "dealbreakers" and telling your S.O. about them does not a fascist make. In fact, deciding that you won't date smokers at all seems way more balanced than saying "honey, I'm okay with you smoking, but if you ever do it in the car I'm effin leaving in a heartbeat."
Oh, and whose law is it again that states that any internet discussion will eventually feature name calling involving fascists or nazis?
I will agree with megan that DNUMN shouldn't "claim something is a dealbreaker and then act like maybe it sort of isn't." The more times she has a lapse and he(?) continues to be in a relationship with her, the more likely she is to have more lapses even when they're in the same city/house. I realise that it's complicated because they're not physically together, so I'm sure many of the things that make smoking a dealbreaker aren't a problem for DNUMN, and I do advocate patience when dealing with addicts who are trying to quit, but if it's a dealbreaker, act like it's a dealbreaker.
Oh yeah, the letter doesn't give much background on how frequent her "relapses" are, or under what circumstances. If she smokes three or four times a year, that's one thing. If she sometimes bums a cigarette when she goes out drinking with a group including lots of smoker buddies, that's another. If, like a smoker friend of mine, she can't seem to "quit" for more than about four days, that's something else entirely. The indication of whether she's in the ready-to-quit but still-having-lapses stage or the paying-lip-service-to-recovery stage comes from background like that.
That way, people who can't afford whatever cut-off amount you set are still motivated to enter, and people who are desperate to get answered are motivated to donate more than the cut-off amount. The more you donate, the better your chances - but no donation is too small.
Somehow DNUMN's letter sounds like he feels the same. The I-haven't-seen-you-in-a-month long distance relationship sex can be awesome and hard to put down.
There are at least two other blue voters in the sea of red that is Texas. Your dream is our dream. Gobama! Defeat McLame/Failin'!
Love the Savage Love Cast on my iPod every week. How about a shout out to Apple Inc, who threw down 100 grand to 'No to 8'. Check their hot news site: http://www.apple.com/hotnews/ for short write up.
Apple is the shit and has some balls.
My ex-husband (and no, we didn't split up over the smoking issue), even though he didn't smoke, lured me in with "I don't mind - both my parents smoke. Go ahead, smoke in my truck, I don't care". Fast foward to after the rings were put on the fingers, then it was non-stop bitching and moaning about my smoking. "I thought you'd eventually quit" "Um, what made you think that?" "Well, everyone's always trying to quit" "Not me".
Years of nagging from him. It felt like every 35 seconds he had a comment to make. And why?? If he was so against it, why marry a smoker? Which I asked him many times. You hate it? Then don't marry someone who does it. Save yourselves both a lot of hassle, trouble and fights.
It scarred me enough so that for many years after, someone being a NON-smoker was a deal breaker for me.
Yeah, I've cut back (2 packs a day to one pack every three days) and only smoke outside now. But those were MY choices, based on internal decisions, and I appreciate not being nagged to death about it. I have done it on my own time, for the best reasons, which were my own. And if I quit, it'll successful because it'll be what I want, and not someone elses goal.
I have tried to contact you on your e-mail but my mail bounced back. I hope it will find you here.
My e-mail address is:
malgorzata.koraszewska@racjonalista.pl
Dear Mr. Savage
I would like to ask your permission to translate your article "In Defense of Dignity" into Polish. I've never read any stronger argument in defense of dignity and my personal experience makes that your arguments feel all the more urgent.
I represent a website www.racjonalista.pl To let you know who we are, I am sending the first paragraph from our "credo":
Poland - a country of packed churches; a country where millions enthusiastically welcomed "the Polish Pope"; a country with a ban on virtually all abortions and with restrictions on prenatal tests; a country in which the Church claims the right to be involved in legislative processes about laws concerning neither the Church nor religion; a country in which the Church would like to tell scientists what should and what should not be a subject of their research. In this country we are trying to promote rational thinking - RACJONALISTA.pl is currently the biggest center for publicizing free-thinkers and rationalists in Poland.
As our website does not generate any income and all our authors and translators work without pay, there unfortunately is no money to pay for the publication rights.
Sincerely yours
Malgorzata Koraszewska
So Dan, as much as I love all your sex advice, SHUT THE FUCK UP ABOUT POLITICS!!!!
RSS
Twitter
Comments (65) RSS