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Quick & Dirty

June 15, 2011

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I'm a straight man married to a bisexual lady, which is something I would recommend to all other straight men in the world. We're in our late 20s, have been together for eight years, married four. (I know: too young and too soon, but we'll see how it turns out.)

My wife has a much higher sex drive than I do, and she's also into kink, as a domme. My fantasies are vanilla, but I'm GGG.

The problem, as I see it, is that she doesn't initiate. She's tied me up and spanked me a handful of times, and it was fine.

Could I have done something wrong? How do you get spanked wrong? When I've asked her, she says that it takes a lot of energy to top, which makes sense, but we've done plenty of other high-energy activities. Communication is excellent between us. How do we get past this?

Beaten Up Not Nearly Enough

The issue, BUNNE, can be summed up in three little words: "it was fine." For you, it was fine. Not great, not mind-blowing, not something you love and can't live without. It was fine.

Some people into BDSM are content just to be indulged by their vanilla partners. But others are only interested in doing BDSM with other folks who are into BDSM. That's because there's a huge difference between tying up and spanking someone who's into it—really into it—and tying up and spanking someone who is doing it for you, for love, and for GGG chits. If your wife has experienced the rush of dominating a simpatico submissive—the thrill of finding someone's limits and pushing them, the charge that comes from knowing you're making someone's deepest, darkest fantasies a reality—then being indulged by her loving husband, who is more than willing to endure the odd spanking to maintain his GGG bona fides, simply isn't going to cut it.


I'm a 50-year-old gay guy and I've always found anal to be painful. After trying it about six times over the past 30-plus years (only once to "completion"), I gave up. Recently I met a great guy who would like to try it, and though I love the body contact, the sweaty, panting excitement, and the idea of being penetrated, I've resisted. Are some guys not capable of standing the pain? The guys I've screwed over the years have enjoyed it. Any suggestions?

Gentleman Asking You, Anal Sex Sage

P.S. The library computers block Buck Angel.

Buttsex: Some folks just can't take it, GAYASS, and you may be one of them. But you can have all the sweat, pants, and excitement of anal without the penetration. Just grease up his dick, grease up your inner thighs, clamp your thighs around his dick, and let him pound away. Extra credit: Reach down between your legs and cup your greasy hands together on the opposite side as he pseudofucks you from behind so that his dick, once it pokes through your thighs, still feels as though it's "inside" something, even if that something isn't your spun-glass ass.


My daughter is 14 years old and she has been searching on the internet for "sneezing fetish" information. She reads articles about it every day. She reads stories about sneezing (some with sexual acts in them!) and watches YouTube videos of people sneezing every day! Yes, she might be curious if she heard the term "sneezing fetish" from someone, but no normal person would search about it on the internet every day! How can anyone actually associate sneezing with sex—and she's only 14! It makes me uncomfortable reading this stuff! Is this normal? I am so worried!

Worried Mom

Kinky people aren't assigned their kinks during their freshman orientation sessions at university, WM, and no one has ever contracted a fetish—like a cold?—just because someone uttered the name of it aloud. (And no fetishist has ever been cured by Mom freaking out.) People tend to become aware of their kinks, and start scouring the web in search of information about them, right around puberty. Which means your daughter is perfectly normal—a perfectly normal, perfectly kinky kid.

Like lots of young kinksters, she may be consumed by her kink now; she's just realized that she's not alone, and she's busily reading and viewing everything she can about it. It's unlikely that her kink will remain so all-consuming, WM. Sooner or later she'll relax about it, and relax into it, and one day she'll have a very nice boyfriend—or girlfriend—who loves her enough to indulge her harmless kink or, better still, she'll meet someone online she clicks with emotionally and intellectually who also shares her kink.

In the meantime, WM, if it makes you uncomfortable to read what your daughter is reading online, stop reading it.


I'm a 19-year-old heterosexual female. When I get a boyfriend, I get so nervous that I get physically sick. It makes dating very stressful and it feels like I can't have a normal relationship because I have to think about not throwing up when I really just want to enjoy his company. I feel particularly sick when things start to heat up with a boy. Now I try to stay out of relationships because I don't think anyone will want to deal with this problem. How can I help condition my way out of it? Should I see another shrink?

Nervous In Candlelight

Yes, NIC, see a shrink—and a pot dealer/medical marijuana provider.


I've been married to my amazing husband for 11 years. I'm straight and love being with two men at once and he's bi so that makes for crazy-hot-fun times. We have all the kids we want, so he's had a vasectomy. I'm still fertile but don't want to end up pregnant by one of our thirds, so we're taking every conceivable precaution. (See what I did there?) My question is this—if we're performing oral on our third and he comes in my husband's mouth and then my husband goes down on me, could I get pregnant via oral transfer?

Baby Shop Is Closed

There's a famous case of a 15-year-old girl who was born without a vagina—but with everything else—who managed to get pregnant via oral sex. Well, via oral sex and a knife fight and a life-threatening wound that allowed the spermatozoa in the girl's gut to swim into her uterus. This—according to a friend of a friend who knows someone who was there—is not an urban legend. In fact, the story appeared in a 1988 issue of the British Journal of Obstetrics and Gynaecology and bounced around the blogs for a few weeks last winter after a blogger at Discover unearthed it.

Anyway, BSIC, the moral of the story: Never say never. But provided your husband swallows and doesn't gargle, and provided there isn't any semen dribbling down his chin, I'd put your chances of getting pregnant under the circumstances you've described at pretty darn close to zero. (And not to ruin your day/three-way or anything, but you do know that vasectomies have a 1-in-2,000 failure rate, right? If you do get knocked up after one of those three-ways, BSIC, the bonus baby could still be your husband's.)


Find the Savage Lovecast (my weekly podcast) every Tuesday at thestranger.com/savage.

mail@savagelove.net

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Comments (219) RSS

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1
Did anybody else think of Cafe Flesh for NIC's letter?
Good film, good porno.
Posted by brx on June 14, 2011 at 5:23 PM · Report this
2
It's a good thing WM wrote Savage and not Prudie or some poor 14 year old would be suffering an "intervention" right now.
Posted by mygash on June 14, 2011 at 5:32 PM · Report this
3
Did anyone else think of South Park when reading NIC's letter?
Posted by mygash on June 14, 2011 at 5:33 PM · Report this
nocutename 4
BUNNE's situation exemplifies to a T my theory of selfish sex, or, "a good lover is a selfish lover"--but *only* if interests and kinks match up.
I don't advocate selfishness as in dickishness: paying no attention to your lover's needs and responses, or getting off and not caring whether your partner does or not; I'm talking about the selfishness that is inherent in symbiotic sex, that leads to the feedback loop of rising arousal.
If I think that my partner is doing whatever he's doing to please me, well, I'm grateful, but I also feel obligated to perform by coming gangbusters, which may not be possible. The expectation can lead to a burdensome feeling. If I get the sense that he doesn't really want to be doing said act for any reason *except* because he thinks he's required to or expected to, I turn right off.
But if it seems like he's doing the very thing I like most in the world (at that moment, anyway) because he *wants* to, because he can't live another minute without doing said thing, then that becomes incredibly hot.
Symbiosis. Feedback Loop. Selfish Sex.
Posted by nocutename on June 14, 2011 at 5:35 PM · Report this
5
Bunne,

You're not satisfying your wife, who's bi. Get another female to join these trysts. You may get some benefits on the side.
Posted by Hunter78 on June 14, 2011 at 5:51 PM · Report this
6
"savage slime"
definition: mucus discharge from end of penis after contracting a bacterial infection from anal sex.
Posted by hotshot on June 14, 2011 at 5:59 PM · Report this
7
Why does BUNNE care if she's spanking him? I don't understand. Does she initiate other kinds of sex with him? Does she know that he'd like her to initiate more? These seem more relevant than him wondering why she doesn't spank him more.
Posted by EricaP on June 14, 2011 at 6:03 PM · Report this
8
Does anyone have the link to that study? Shit sounds wild.
Posted by sahara29 on June 14, 2011 at 6:28 PM · Report this
9
@7 EricaP
It does seem to be a rather specific question considering the general mismatch in desires. It's great that he recognizes her needs and is concerned with her getting them met. It's natural to wonder where her initiative is in the face of her high level of desire. I too might feel insecure about my past performance.
Posted by Mr. J on June 14, 2011 at 6:57 PM · Report this
10
Oh man! That baby shop is closed is one nasty nasty piece of trash, and so is her old man. LOL! Man, people are trashy gross. That is just nasty garbage. So of course they have kids. ha ha...fifty years, there isn't going to be anyone on the planet with an IQ over 105.
Posted by Guy_Fieri on June 14, 2011 at 7:09 PM · Report this
dangerousgift 11
bonus baby. thats what we call em.
Posted by dangerousgift on June 14, 2011 at 7:11 PM · Report this
rex everything 12
@Concerned Mom
Your daughter may have an orgasm every time she sneezes. Some women can orgasm when they brush their teeth (Dan had a guest on who wrote a book about strange orgasm triggers)So, maybe it's not really a kink, just the way she's wired and trying to figure out if she's alone in this.
Posted by rex everything http://https://www.facebook.com/pages/RexEverything/188124174552093 on June 14, 2011 at 7:17 PM · Report this
nocutename 13
EricaP and Mr. J, I read BUNNE's question as I think Dan did, that he is trying to indulge his domme wife (he said he's vanilla but GGG) and is wondering why she isn't more enthusiastic. He's trying to give her what he thinks she wants, what he knows she's interested in, because he loves her and wants to make her happy.
But he's not doing it for his own selfish reasons, so from her point of view, he's just going through the motions and it leaves her kind of cold. And on top of that, he wants her to respond more positively out of her sense of appreciation for his effort and offer. Those are noble sentiments, but they don't often make for super-hot, exciting sex.

I found his saying of his and his wife's ages and the duration of their relationship and marriage ("I know: too young and too soon, but we'll see how it turns out") pretty telling. What is too young? And for whom? And as for "too soon," he says they were together for four years before they married. In what culture is that "too soon?" It sounds as though he is expecting that response and trying to preemptively counter it--exactly the same kind of anticipation of what he thinks his wife needs sexually, met with the same slightly-off response. The guy needs to relax.
Posted by nocutename on June 14, 2011 at 7:24 PM · Report this
14
I'm a guy. I remember when I was in high school I used to worry that I might throw up when I had sex with a girl. I finally admitted to myself that I was gay. I've gagged on some big ones, but never threw up. Did finally have sex with a woman. It was fun. Her husband paid me nicely to do it while he watched.
Posted by Jaysin6971 on June 14, 2011 at 7:41 PM · Report this
15
@13 nocutename

Right, they are incompatible. He can't manufacture desires he doesn't have. She is responding with disappointment and apathy.

I love your theory @4 btw. I've been sitting here trying to say that without hitting on you. Obviously I gave up.
Posted by Mr. J on June 14, 2011 at 7:42 PM · Report this
16
That story about the girl getting pregnant from oral is almost certainly a myth. From an ABC story:

"But some doctors are still suspicious, or at least bewildered by the tale. The girl's birth defect is well known and by age 15, doctors say most girls would have been doubling over in pain with an abdomen filled with menstrual fluid that cannot escape.
"The menstrual fluid of several periods would make it even more unlikely for a pregnancy to occur.
" 'She'd have pain all the time, and would have a stomach full of blood all the time, and would have to be operated on or she would eventually die,' said Dr. Sherman J. Silber, director of the Infertility Center of Saint Louis at St. Luke's Hospital in Missouri.
"Dr. Howard A. Zacur, a reproductive endocrinologist at Johns Hopkins, was also skeptical. 'The case report here suffers from the fact that an individual with a completely obstructed vaginal outlet would have been expected to have blood accumulation in the vagina, and/or uterus,' he wrote in an e-mail."

http://www.whas11.com/home/Girl-with-no-…

Here's the Discover link:
http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/discob…
Posted by BlackRose on June 14, 2011 at 8:02 PM · Report this
17
I think BUNNE would be better off asking his wife if she'd like to spank him more, instead of asking Dan. Or maybe he could focus on the good sex they have together that they both like. Sounds like he's insecure about her leaving him for a better spankee, when he should instead worry about her leaving him for someone less insecure.
Posted by EricaP on June 14, 2011 at 8:03 PM · Report this
18
If he really wants her to top him, he should read stories about that for a while, and find an activity that might actually turn him on. If she tied up his cock, with his hands bound so he couldn't touch himself -- maybe something like that. Then he could let her know that he has been fantasizing about this activity, and beg her to do it to him. That would be more of a two-way street, and less of a favor he's doing her.
Posted by EricaP on June 14, 2011 at 8:07 PM · Report this
Sea Otter 19
Re. BUNNE: I could pretty much be BUNNE's wife, and Dan is right. If she's like me, she only wants to spank people who really, really want to be spanked. Maybe she could get her spanking needs met somewhere else? She could probably even find a spankee who doesn't also require her to fuck them, if that's an issue.

Re. NIC: I know it's impossible to make any diagnosis based on this letter...But my first thought was, "maybe you're not as heterosexual as you think you are."
Posted by Sea Otter on June 14, 2011 at 8:26 PM · Report this
nocutename 20
Thanks, Mr. J. You made my evening.
Posted by nocutename on June 14, 2011 at 8:34 PM · Report this
21
Dear NIC, writing to Dan was an interesting way to confront and attempt to deal with your problem. I hope you continue to search out ways to make yourself more comfortable and that you are not discouraged by his advice.
Posted by bigSista on June 14, 2011 at 8:42 PM · Report this
22
Dear NIC, writing to Dan was an interesting way to confront and attempt to deal with your problem. I hope you continue to search out ways to make yourself more comfortable and that you are not discouraged by his advice.
Posted by bigSista on June 14, 2011 at 8:44 PM · Report this
cyranothe2nd 23
BUNNE, my sub and I are kinky as hell but your wife's right--Domming takes a lot of work. Plus, most women are culturalized to accept that men should take the lead in sex, so it's hard, even when you don't want it/are planning otherwise, to erase those cultural norms.

The best thing you can do is let her know--A LOT-- that you love her kinky side and want to play (not just indulge because you love her but play because you enjoy it). Give her permission to play with you. And if you don't enjoy it, then give her an out--let her find someone who does.
Posted by cyranothe2nd on June 14, 2011 at 8:45 PM · Report this
attitude devant 24
8, the study has been posted here on SLOG in the past year, so use the search function and look for it.

I had to read it in my OB/GYN residency waaay back in the dark ages (late 80s) and it was indeed published in a reputable journal, but as a letter.

16, skepticism is all well and good, but the story as originally written is quite plausible. Stranger things have happened.....
Posted by attitude devant on June 14, 2011 at 10:23 PM · Report this
25
I wonder if this column will get high enough in the Google results for "sneezing fetish" that Worried Mom's daughter winds up here... which would be horribly embarrassing for the girl, but probably ultimately helpful. She'd hear not only that her fetish is harmless and nothing to worry about, but also that her mom has noticed her habits and that she should learn to hide her online tracks better!
Posted by 14thblackbird on June 14, 2011 at 10:31 PM · Report this
venomlash 26
Dan, I know that it should be the pot users on this site telling you this, but you shouldn't recommend marijuana as a cure-all for that kind of nausea and discomfort. It's a tricky drug at the best of times and affects everyone differently, so I hear.
She SHOULD see a psychiatrist to work out her neuroses (my guess is that she's got some fairly deep-seated anxiety about romantic relationships, possibly the result of being rejected by a crush in early adolescence), but ONLY IF THERAPY ALONE IS INEFFECTIVE should she turn to medication. And for fuck sake, don't try to medicate nausea and discomfort with THC unless more standard and reliable pharmaceuticals have been tried and found ineffective.
Posted by venomlash on June 14, 2011 at 10:40 PM · Report this
27
I feel for NIC. Not that I ever got physically ill, but have to be close with someone (at least to the point where I'm pretty sure he gives half a fuck) to even make out. Sex hasn't entered the equation in a long time, since the few times it has, it's been disappointing to say the least.

I seriously do not get the ongoing quest for rumpy pumpy. Must be one of those things having good sex clarifies.
Posted by blah on June 14, 2011 at 10:43 PM · Report this
28
WM, I wouldn't necessarily say to stop monitoring your daughter's online activities, as 14-year-old girls are particularly vulnerable to the worst stuff on the internet. But, if you find something like "sneeze fetish," decide to say "okay, that's weird, but harmless enough...NEXT!" Maybe she's developing seasonal allergies and sneezing feels GOOD and she's confused, or maybe she has one of the crazy aforementioned orgasm triggers, or maybe some guy told her her sneeze was cute, but whatever it is, it doesn't matter. It's not like she's auctioning off her virginity or being viciously bullied.
Posted by Ms. D on June 14, 2011 at 10:43 PM · Report this
29
No one is talking about LW2. I think that maybe the guy needs a colonoscopy. 50 is the exact right age for one. That would make sure that he didn't have any polyps or other hindrances. He never mentions seeing a doctor about the issue. Seems like a big problem to me.
Posted by whiteorchid1 on June 14, 2011 at 11:04 PM · Report this
30
Thank you, thank you, thank you, Dan. Really. After all these years of just nodding in agreement you've given me a "it's not just me" moment.

No matter how much you love your partner, no matter if he's GGG over the rainbow and out to the moon and wants you to be happy in every way possible - if you happen to be a submissive, and if he's simply not at all interested in or excited by domination, there is not one goddamned thing he can do to fake it. Not convincingly. Not ever enough to make you, the sub, really forget that he's only doing this for you. And while of course a good dom is turned on (in part) by everything he or she is doing for you, part of the joy of letting go as a sub is simply that it's not all about you. No decisions to make, no opinions to express, no responsibility for a few brilliant moments or hours... and the knowledge that this surrender is driving the other person wild in a way that nothing else will. What the hell am I supposed to do, script the whole scene? Knowing all the time that it would be just another chore for him and would kill the entire point for me?

And thinking about living the rest of my life without a creative, intelligent, inspired dom is making me numb and dead inside, and I finally understand that that particular emptiness is not going away. Fuck.
Posted by nowayamilogginginforthis on June 14, 2011 at 11:51 PM · Report this
31
Hey all! I am relatively new to Dan's column and the associated abbreviations. So, what is GGG?

In re GAYASS: I can completely relate, and if you are reading, thank you, thank you, thank you for writing. You are not alone. I have not experienced anal sex because I am extremely sensitive to pain. I've came damn close with someone once, but I was only able to have him insert about an inch or two in. I've tried with toys alone, to little avail. Thus, I've wondered how this would affect a relationship, but I've not yet had a relationship, so...

Again, thank you for your question and Dan, thank you for the great advice. Any other comments the readers would be willing to offer is greatly appreciated in advance.
Posted by lenvus on June 15, 2011 at 12:06 AM · Report this
32
@31: Another thing Dan likes to say goes something like this: - if only there was a site on the internet where you could type in terms you don't know and they search the web for you. Oh wait:

http://www.google.com/search?q=ggg+dan+s…
Posted by adam.smith on June 15, 2011 at 12:28 AM · Report this
Sea Otter 33
venomlash @26,
Thank you for making that point, and I totally agree. I've noticed that people who are fans of weed sometimes tend to proselytize about it, ignoring the fact that it doesn't have equally salubrious effects on everyone. Personally, I have found that it actually makes my anxiety and nausea worse. (And, no, I don't think it's my attitude, as a few loyal medicinal pot smokers have suggested, I just think my physiological response to THC is different from theirs.)

Posted by Sea Otter on June 15, 2011 at 1:12 AM · Report this
34
"GGG chits."

I like it. Dan should print some. It's what all couples need to navigate their sex lives honestly and fairly: currency. He could start the GGG Fed. Create an exchange rate with the EU. Wealthy could take on a whole new meaning. Tax the GGG rich and give to the GGG poor.
Posted by Yojimbo on June 15, 2011 at 4:21 AM · Report this
35
@20 nocutename

Thank you!
Posted by Mr. J on June 15, 2011 at 4:28 AM · Report this
36
Yojimbo@34: Yeah, but then the Republicans would take it over and create GGG stock exchanges and GGG ETFs and GGG derivatives and remove all GGG regulations and before you know it the entire GGG market would collapse and we'd be in a sex recession.
Posted by Action Kate on June 15, 2011 at 4:35 AM · Report this
37
@27 blah

Don't give up after only a few tries. You will find the right person soon enough. You sound like you may have a low libido. I don't think that will change when the "good sex" finally happens for you. Lots of folks like to take things slowly so don't worry about that.

Did you see @4? Were your experiences anything like that or were your partners selfish in a dickish way, ignoring your needs or pressuring you to go too fast?
Posted by Mr. J on June 15, 2011 at 4:38 AM · Report this
38
It's interesting to see when Dan decides to be patient, respectful, and generous with his advice to a young person trying to figure something difficult out, and when he decides to be parsimonious and dismissive, as he is here in the case of NIC.

@22: bigSista, thanks for pointing out DS's error here. You're right. Not to put to fine a point on it, but Dan's answer is irresponsible here.
Posted by Yojimbo on June 15, 2011 at 4:44 AM · Report this
39
@36 Action Kate

The exchange rate at my house renders that currency meaningless.
Posted by Mr. J on June 15, 2011 at 4:53 AM · Report this
40
GGG stands for "Good, giving, and game," as in, what you should be as a sexual partner -- willing to try things and do things you're not necessarily IN TO but that don't cause you any harm because it's what your partner is in to, in what should be a give-and-take relationship when it comes to sex.
Posted by Redheadwglasses on June 15, 2011 at 5:18 AM · Report this
41
p.s. Urban dictionary or a google search may give you a more comprehensive definition.

p.p.s. You also should go to urbandictionary.com and search for "santorum," which I have memorized. ;)
Posted by Redheadwglasses on June 15, 2011 at 5:23 AM · Report this
42
If BSIC has all the kids she wants, why doesn't she get her tubes done? If both partners are surgically sterilized, then the 1/2000 odds turn into 1/?,000. I'm not a statistician, but odds will be much less if both are sterilized than if one partner is surgically sterilized.

After my last kid, I got mine done, and wanted my husband (ex now) to get a vasectomy, too (the chicken shit refused) because I knew a woman who got pregnant with her 4th kid after getting a tubal ligation.

It's easy to test to see if a guy is shooting blanks or not, if you have a microscope.
Posted by Barbara on June 15, 2011 at 5:26 AM · Report this
43
About WM:

Kids these days really need to learn the basics about computer security. That lady should tell her daughter to configure the OS on her computer to ask for a password during logon, to make sure she chooses a secure password, and to change the password every now and then.
Posted by Valhar2000 on June 15, 2011 at 5:36 AM · Report this
44
@38: Agreed. She seemed the most in need of his advice, and she got one line.
/Sure, marijuana won't exacerbate what sounds like an anxiety disorder..../
Posted by melbzig on June 15, 2011 at 5:36 AM · Report this
45
Vasectomies are very reliable. The caveat is that you need to check your sperm count a month and three months after doing it. In VERY rare cases, the tube can religate by itself, so yearly checks are a good precaution for the first years after the procedure. After three years, the cut vas is so necrotic it is almost impossible to reverse the procedure.
And to Barabara's comment, yes, a man that chickens out to a vasectomy is indeed shit. The procedure is a lot simpler that tubal ligation, takes 30 minutes and barely 2 days rest. I had mine done years ago and never looked back.
Gents, if you love your wife and don't want to have more kids, do it. Man up, and don't behave like 5 year old sissy girls.
Posted by Cloto on June 15, 2011 at 5:58 AM · Report this
46
I swear I could have written NIC's letter back when I was 19. She might just need some simple relaxation techniques, a very considerate partner, and to take it slow. I on the other hand took the road of Dan's second advice, never saw a shrink, and have had almost all sexual partners stem from a drunken/drug induced night.
Posted by lunavin on June 15, 2011 at 6:16 AM · Report this
47
Action Kate wins the thread.
Posted by TB on June 15, 2011 at 6:24 AM · Report this
48
I swear I could have written NIC's letter back when I was a teenager. She might just need some simple relaxation techniques and a very considerate and understanding guy who's willing to take everything slow. It really depends on what is at the root of her anxiety. A shrink might be helpful.

I know where my anxieties came from, but I didn't want to see a shrink. I took the road of Dan's second advice and have had nearly all sexual partners stem from a drunken/drug induced night. The anxiety is still there if I'm sober. You hear that, NIC?
Posted by lunavin on June 15, 2011 at 6:25 AM · Report this
49
My OB-GYN told me that she gets at least one new client a week who thought they wouldn't get pregnant because their bloke had a vasectomy.
Posted by aliceaustralia on June 15, 2011 at 6:35 AM · Report this
50
People with anxiety disorders need to be careful with marijuana; it can sometimes have a paradoxical effect and INCREASE your anxiety substantially.
Posted by tetocat on June 15, 2011 at 6:48 AM · Report this
51
@49 aliceaustralia
It would be nice to know which type of vasectomy is failing so often. There are reversible methods involving clips and then there is what I had: cut a section out, cauterize, and bury the two ends in different tissue layers so they can never find each other. Works for me for years now.
Posted by Mr. J on June 15, 2011 at 6:53 AM · Report this
52
I don't think a sneezing fetish is that kinky. When I have an dirty thought that really turns me on, sometimes I have a sudden sneeze right out of nowhere. The connection between sneezing and sexual arousal has been noted for thousands of years. I sometimes have wondered if it happened to me during real time sex, would that be a turn off to my partner. Maybe this girl sneezes when she's turned on and wants to make sure she can find a partner who is into it someday. Or maybe it turns her on. All of those nasonex and claritin commercials must seem very oppressive to her. A little gross, but over all it's fairly vanilla as kinks go.
Posted by jussmbdy on June 15, 2011 at 7:01 AM · Report this
53
What's the deal with BUNNE? He says he's vanilla, but then he's complaining that his wife is not interested enough in beating him up and hardly ever initiates it? If it's too mild and too infrequent, I would say Dan is dead wrong and BUNNE is into it a lot. I think his wife just "doesn't like him that way". He may be too eager or two passive, or too familiar because maybe she just likes beating up strangers, or people in better shape or people who don't whine a certain way.

If he's really not into it, he should let it go.
Posted by jussmbdy on June 15, 2011 at 7:11 AM · Report this
54
@53 jussmbdy
I think that's the point. He's afraid what she wants is someone else. If he's convinced she has certain strong desires and that she isn't bringing them to him, then his relationship is in trouble.
Posted by Mr. J on June 15, 2011 at 7:21 AM · Report this
seandr 55
@26: don't try to medicate nausea and discomfort with THC unless more standard and reliable pharmaceuticals have been tried and found ineffective.

WTF? What exactly is the big risk of MMJ that would make it a last resort?

Another option, of course, is a shot or two of whiskey. Humans have been calming their nerves with alcohol for tens of thousands of years. But holy shit, don't try alcohol until you've exhausted every single doctor-prescribed pharmaceutical option, right?
Posted by seandr on June 15, 2011 at 8:29 AM · Report this
56
Oh please give me a break. This guy is apparently getting all the sex he wants but now he is bitching about his wife not spanking him. Here is my letter:

Dear Dan:

I'm a straight man married to an asexual lady, which is something I would NOT recommend to any other straight men in the world. We're in our late 40s, have been together for 18 years, married four hundred or so. (I know: too old and way too late for me so we already know how it is going to turn out- right?).

I have a much bigger sex drive than my wife. Her fantasies, if she even has any are vanilla, but I'm GGG.

The problem, as I see it, is that she doesn't initiate. She's laid there and thought of England and it was fine. She won't let me do oral on her or anything else beyond a little kissing a fingering and just seems to be on the clock- like I am one more thing she needs to check off and get out of the way for the month or so until the next time.

Could I have done something wrong? How do you have sex wrong? When I've asked her, she says that it takes a lot of energy to to have sex, which makes sense, but we've done plenty of other high-energy activities. Communication is excellent between us. How do we get past this?

Answer: Marry someone who shares you interests and sex drive or be miserable for the rest of your life.
Posted by Professor on June 15, 2011 at 8:32 AM · Report this
57
My hubbie waited 38 years to have sex, Because he was that nervous around women and wanted to wait until he met someone he really connected with. It's a long time to not date, but he says the rewards were worth the wait.

At some point, you'll meet someone and not feel nervous and it'll work, but it's not something you can know when . . .
Posted by Linds on June 15, 2011 at 8:34 AM · Report this
58
I'm sure the budding fetishist would so appreciate your thoughtful response. You are an original - and needed - voice. Thank you. :)
Posted by Makenna on June 15, 2011 at 8:41 AM · Report this
59
@30 – I have felt much like you... Did he used to be more domly, and the dom energy has ebbed for a few years, and now you think he was faking it all along? In my experience, it can ebb and flow, depending on how stressful the rest of the dom's life is... Or did his efforts never work for you? How long have you been together, and how committed are you? Could you possibly get your sub needs met with someone else?

@42/45, yeah, but since they're now divorced, maybe he's glad he didn't get cut for her.

@54, if the apparent problem is her desires, then we can't tell if the relationship is in trouble without asking her. (On the other hand, I'm happy to diagnose a problem looming in his hyper-insecurity).
Posted by EricaP on June 15, 2011 at 8:42 AM · Report this
nocutename 60
BSIC needs to either get a tubal ligation or and IUD, or use hormomal birth control, in addition to and having both her husband and partner use condoms to protect against infections.
Rather than spend time freaking out over elaborate and unlikely scenarios for getting pregnant, why not just take proactive steps to reassure yourself that it isn't possible.

As to NIC, I want to know if she gets anxious in general, or what other sorts of situations make her feel sick. Questioning her heterosexuality seems to be missing the point; plenty of gay people have had straight relationships and didn't get physically sick and nauseous, and there's no reason not to take her at her word. Weed might work, but it might make her even more anxious or paranoid, and in any case, it would at best mask the symptoms of what seems like a real anxiety disorder. She should probably see a therapist, and perhaps stop trying to date for a while. If she is in a relationship, she should try to take it slow and keep it light and see whether that helps reduce anxiety. There's a lot she didn't say in this letter, and there's probably a lot of background going into this physiological response.

Posted by nocutename on June 15, 2011 at 8:44 AM · Report this
61
Also, Dan Dropped the ball on GAYSS. What about anal dilators? You start with a finger, then work up to a slightly larger dildo, and so on and so on up to the diameter of your lovers dick. Make it a fun game, every night take a little bit more- NOT so it causes pain but push yourself a bit and you'll be shooting out Santorum within a couple weeks.

THIS is the guy who needs the medical marijuana/dealer. A couple of those poppers and a hot tub probably would not hurt (at least not the second or third time).

Finally on the 14 y/o girl and internet searches. The guy has it easy. Net Nanny identified my 12 year old son doing searches like "Asian Tight Butt Anal Sex Girls" and "Virgin Philippine Sluts." I told him that was not very appropriate at his age but at least we know his sexual orientation. Actually I broke the ice by telling him: "So, I see you are not gay after all" and suggested he didn't want to get into a fetish so he only likes one "type" of woman. He said: "But Dad, isn't this a pretty good fetish thing to have? There's like 2 Billion of them." I think he will be all right.....
Posted by Professor on June 15, 2011 at 8:44 AM · Report this
62
@56 - what happens if you ask her to open the marriage? Does she leave you over that issue? Has she ever had sex with anyone else? Might she be a little curious? Or maybe she doesn't find sex that big a deal, and won't mind you getting some elsewhere?
Posted by EricaP on June 15, 2011 at 8:48 AM · Report this
63
@59 EricaP
Oh, I agree. I think the problem is his insecurity. Her desires are for her to tell us. But since he wrote in to say that he's already convinced of what they are then the problem is his response to those desires, be they real or imagined.
Posted by Mr. J on June 15, 2011 at 8:54 AM · Report this
mydriasis 64
I blame the sneezing fetish on sex ed teachers that compare orgasm to sneezing.
Posted by mydriasis on June 15, 2011 at 9:40 AM · Report this
mydriasis 65
@ 55

A lot of people with anxiety disorders self medicate with alcohol and it would be an even MORE irresponsible reccomendation to make than marijuana.

Humans have been doing lots of things for tens and thousands of years, not all of them good.

Going to therapy would be choice one. But taking a dose-controlled, non-recreational substance for anxiety is likely better than marijuana and DEFINITELY better than alcohol. (I find that many anxious people, including myself, respond negatively to marijuana. I dissociate severely and I find it very unpleasant)
Posted by mydriasis on June 15, 2011 at 10:01 AM · Report this
66
Ms Erica, Mr J and Ms Cute, among others, all have excellent points, though I think I'm eventually going to be looking at BUNNE from the flip side.

BUNNE's whole letter seems a bit on the odd side. I like Ms Cute's point about his anticipatory comment on his coupling/marrying age, and Mr J provides a good explanation for an interesting choice of question. Ms Erica provides a good blueprint in #18 if that's the path he seeks. It makes sense that the more they can do something that does it for them both, the better off they are likely to be.

As for post #17, I suppose it's possible to think that there might be a Quick Fix. If Mrs BUNNE is of the, "Do I have to tell you EVERYTHING?" mindset, he might consider open discussion with her to be a Last Resort.
Posted by vennominon on June 15, 2011 at 10:01 AM · Report this
67
@61
HAHAHA! Good one. "But Dad..." Thanks for making my (work) day.
Posted by BlondeDiva on June 15, 2011 at 10:04 AM · Report this
68
Continuing, BUNNE's letter does not prepossess me in his favour. He gloats over his wife's status as bi without backing it up, comes across as the sort of person who calls someone a lady in more of a creepy way than a courtly way, seems somewhat skeptical of his own marriage, and appears to claim GGG more as an accomplishment than as a goal or a process. The letter leaves out a lot, too. All that is mentioned of their entire sexual history, spanning perhaps eight years, is that she has tied him up and spanked him a handful of times. How long has she been openly into domination? How long have they been sexual together? Is this the only way in which he indulges her? Does she have any outside accommodation? Does she indulge him, or count vanilla activites as an indulgence?

Mr Savage's response surprised me a hair. I keep thinking of the way he uses a foot fetishist partner as an example of how one may not have to do much to indulge a partner and be GGG. Indulging a spanker would seem to be somewhat more by way of accommodation. The reply is not easy to make out. Is Mr Savage simply being factual and relating how some people need an enthusiastic partner instead of an indulgent one, or is he sniping at those who indulge partners in order to pad their GGG accounts? Is the argument that that isn't proper GGG?
Posted by vennominon on June 15, 2011 at 10:06 AM · Report this
nocutename 69
Maybe it's in part due to the marijuana (the partaking of which was inspired by a comment of Mr. Savage's), but Mr. Vennomimon, I'm finding your posts the ideal combination of diligent, thoughtful, probing questions involving critical thinking, and a style which emulates Miss Austen herself, being both formal and balanced and pointedly ironic and hilarious; thus becoming even more charming than usual.
And being referred to as "Ms Cute" delights me beyond measure. Thank you.
Posted by nocutename on June 15, 2011 at 10:17 AM · Report this
70
@68 - well said (even sans partaking a la @69)

I'm ruminating about this now... When is a fetish strong enough that you appreciate your partner's willingness to indulge you even if they don't enjoy it themselves? Foot fetishists often don't seem to care if the woman loves it or not... Same with anal sex aficionados (as per GAYASS)... I want my back scratched regardless; but I only want to be tied up by someone who is at least as into the scene as I am. Guess this is where it comes down to communication and openness about change and discovery.
Posted by EricaP on June 15, 2011 at 10:37 AM · Report this
71
Looking at Ms Cute's posts #4 and #13 from the other end, I do like in #4 the "required or expected" turn-off. I think there's wiggle room in between that and "But if it seems like he's doing the very thing I like most in the world (at that moment, anyway) because he *wants* to, because he can't live another minute without doing said thing, then that becomes incredibly hot," for giving a partner what (s)he really gets off on as a free gift given out of love, unless it's considered a necessary part of a free gift given out of love that the giver fake being as fully into it as the partner.

My flip view of 4/13 is that Mrs BUNNE (hypothetically) cares about his needs and responses, doesn't want to get off on spanking him if it doesn't get him off as well, doesn't want him to go through the motions. Those are noble sentiments, but can't it come across as pressure not just to indulge but to adopt her kink? I'm not really "on his side" but it just seems a little sad if even someone who really wants an enthusiastic instead of an indulgent partner can't get anything out of a free gift given out of love even if it's not the ideal. Then again, I do agree with the idea that BUNNE seems more interested in being "called" GGG than in actually "being" GGG.

Before I became a nun (I like the outfit better than that of a monk), I occasionally did role plays to indulge someone. The advantage of a role play is that one is already acting, thus faking, anyway. I felt able to provide a decent or good role play even a couple of times when I was not only being indulgent about a scene that wasn't a turn on for me but of which I already knew I would not want to become a devotee. Fortunately it wasn't a problem.

Posted by vennominon on June 15, 2011 at 10:52 AM · Report this
72
Action Kate @36
I don’t think the Republicans will ever recognize GGG as the definition offered by Redheadwglasses @40.
Can you imagine a Bachman-Santorum administration that will even allow any form of GGGness in the first place? But if that happens then maybe the lefty grass-roots response will be to hold bunch of GGG parties across the nation.

One outcome is certain: Governor McKenna will not sue the federal government over this issue, as he will be too busy breaking the state employees union and further deregulate and degrade insurance and healthcare services.
Posted by fif on June 15, 2011 at 10:55 AM · Report this
73
Post 71 crossed posts 69 and 70.

Ms Cute, I debated what to call you for some time, and am most pleased to have chosen for your delight.

Ms Erica summarizes very nicely.

Actually, I am now going to go play tennis in an excellent mood. I have just been recalling one of my longest-lasting partners. We had slight variations on the same main preference, and got to a point at which each indulging the other became almost more of a source of joy than being indulged, and it built up.
Posted by vennominon on June 15, 2011 at 11:09 AM · Report this
nocutename 74
Mr. Vennominon articulates a phenomenon I have experienced very well. And it might even play into what EricaP has been ruminating about: the crossing over of GGG behavior into a true personal preference, maybe even going so far as to become a learned fetish. I once had a partner I wanted to please very much, and so I indulged a few of his preferences I didn't share, because it wasn't difficult to accommodate him and it seemed to make him happy. I was definitely in the GGG spirit, without explicitly trying to earn my triple-G chits, as Dan so pithily put it. I don't know that my bf knew how much I didn't share those particular interests; he may have had an inkling; he at least knew that they were not common for me. But I like to think that I manufactured a sufficient level of enthusiasm because I know how much my own enjoyment depends on my awareness and knowledge that my partner is really turned on by whatever he's doing *for his own sake* (see post @4), and I assumed that the same feelings and reactions applied.

Over time, however, those acts or roles which I had once viewed as "foreign" to me, but which I engaged in to be 3-G, became associated with some VERY positive memories. Since the symbiotic feedback loop is in play, what made my partner feel good in turn led to his doing something that would make me feel good, etc. ad infinitum.
So in a classic Pavlovian or even Skinnerian behavior modification, I came to have the same reaction to those sets of stimuli as my bf did. Then I was no longer being GGG and indulging him, but gratifying my own desires.
The irony is that after that bf and I broke up, I was left with a set of somewhat difficult to recreate specific interests not all people might be interested in! Although I would characterized these newer interests as new-found *kinks,* rather than *fetishes,* because I'm not wholly dependent on them to get aroused or enjoy sex, or orgasm, I do wonder: can a fetish be created?

More...
Posted by nocutename on June 15, 2011 at 11:51 AM · Report this
Deviathan 75
@BUNNE,

1)There are MANY men out there who would love to have a female domme in their life, so consider yourself lucky that she is sticking around.
2)Maybe if you brought in a third party, a female sub perhaps, you could watch her spank her.. and you might be more into it.
3)Be more open with your WIFE. ask HER why she isn't into you anymore. She's probably bored with not having you respond how she would like. why don't you try to stop "being okay with it" and start at least TRYING to enjoy it.

kinksters don't like a bored partner. just like you wouldn't like it if your wife acted bored while you has sex.
Posted by Deviathan http://www.modelmayhem.com/devipack on June 15, 2011 at 12:04 PM · Report this
76
It sure looks like Ms. Cute and Mr. Vennomimon will make a great GGG couple. And my guess is that if Erica P, aka Ms. Erica, shows an interest than they’ll all be GGGing together. Hoorah!!!
Posted by Yetanothercutie on June 15, 2011 at 12:18 PM · Report this
77
classifying sexiness and drunk obnoxiuosness hasn't been tackled in so long!
Which is exactly why I see so many thin grey skinned people with big heads that seem to be a part of my imagination, plus too parking meters usually.
I am happy that "the Pimps" downtown are just wandering losers harassing you prostitutes Rather than BALLERS with CADDIES and RIMS embraced by the ghoulish and infected humid escorts in the FL. Sunshine down here.
see y'all soon.
Posted by misterdanton http://yahoo.com on June 15, 2011 at 12:20 PM · Report this
78
I think there's a space between a vanilla partner who "endures" the occasional kinky activity and a kinkster who loves it, and that's what my vanilla partner is- it wouldn't occur to him to dominate me if left to his own devices and I don't think he'd want to do it if he were with a vanilla girl, but he actually likes doing it with me because seeing how happy it makes me also makes HIM really happy.

That sounds more like BUNNE to me. I think he should stop doubting his wife's honesty when she says that it takes a lot of energy to top- a good scene usually DOES take a lot more energy than vanilla sex.
Posted by alguna_rubia on June 15, 2011 at 12:22 PM · Report this
79
It sure looks like Ms. Cute and Mr. Vennomimon will make a great GGG couple. And my guess is that if Erica P, aka Ms. Erica, shows an interest than they’ll all be GGGing together.
Hoorah!!!
Posted by Yetanothercutie on June 15, 2011 at 12:29 PM · Report this
80
Many thanks to Venomlash, Sea Otter and the others who posted about THC and anxiety. I get both anxious and nauseous pretty easily, and pot just makes it worse - very frustrating! I'm reassured to know this is not so uncommon.
Other than that part of the advice, I didn't find that answer so bad - it's pretty clear that this is a big issue, and one answer from Dan won't go very far to solve it. Therapy can be useful stuff, and she did suggest it herself.
Posted by octothorpe on June 15, 2011 at 12:44 PM · Report this
81
@37

Actually, I have a pretty active libido. I just take care if it myself, almost daily.
Posted by blah on June 15, 2011 at 12:44 PM · Report this
82
26/33/53/65 -- I also think Dan's recommendation of marijuana for anxiety (or depression) is a really, really bad idea. I used to be in the pro-weed, what's the big deal camp as I'd smoked it and still do on rare occasions (I'm 32) and never had any negative effects personally so I too thought it was people's overreaction to the drug.

Now, as a result of an ex-boyfriend who started using it much like the letter writer did to help alleviate social anxiety and awkardness issues, I see it much more like alcohol -- for many, it can be enjoyed recreationally with little/no risk -- but for some, for whatever reason, it becomes a big time dependency/addiction and crutch. In my ex's case, he began smoking at 15 and by the time he entered college, he was smoking every day and continued to do so for 8 years straight. He was totally functional -- graduated with good grades, got a good job -- looked pretty good from the outside. But he was emotionally stunted; he didn't go through a lot of emotionally difficult stuff we all do that brings about personal growth and maturity. If it hurt, he just smoked it away, so not much growth ever occurred. At 26, he was much more on the level of a 19 year-old emotionally speaking.

Until I started looking into this more and reading some serious scientific studies on this phenomenon, I didn't believe it existed. But it can be a crutch much like alcoholism for people -- just as you can have a functional alcoholic, you can have a functional pothead. The harder part is that the functional pothead doesn't hit rock bottom until much later than the alcoholic does. So, I'd never suggest using weed or alcohol to help someone loosen up that had obvious, extreme social anxiety issues like the LW and I think it's a poor decision on Dan's part not to know better. Telling someone to drink/smoke their problems away is never a good thing.
More...
Posted by KL on June 15, 2011 at 12:48 PM · Report this
83
The difference between a willing partner and an enthusiastic one when it comes to sex vs back scratching is sex is something we're supposed to be doing *together* not something being done to me. I can masturbate myself, ya know?

Am I the only one who is imagining the sneeze girl at school laughing her ass off with her friends? "so this week I googled sneeze fetish to freak my mom out, what should I do next? Keep it weird enough to confuse her but not so weird she actually confronts me on it." Or she heard about it from a friend and googled. It's highly unlikely she actually has this and even if so, yes, who cares?

GAYASS you're so not alone. And I hate to be obvious but try fucking guys with smaller dicks. I used to let guys do anal on me because that's what hot sexy hetero women are supposed to do and those who don't are prude. I hated every minute of it. It was painful, awful, and gave no sexual pleasure whatsoever. It didn't matter how slow we went or how much lube we used or the position. We read Tristan Taoromino enough times I can still quote passages extensively. I did it once with a guy with a small dick, I mean like barely bigger than thumb circumference, and that was not sheer torture. If I had a prostate I might have even liked it.

When I was Just Friends with my current husband we were in a group that was discussing anal. Some were really into it, some really not. This fell pretty hard among gender lines. He said "honestly, I don't get it. As a hetero guy if I've got a nice wet beautiful pussy right there why the fuck would I want to stick my dick in her shit hole? I've tried it a few times because it's supposed to be just awesome but I totally don't get it."

My mouth watered and he got his first BJ out of me a week later. There may be a similar man out there who views your mouth the same way.
More...
Posted by wendykh on June 15, 2011 at 12:48 PM · Report this
84
give NIC my # Dan!
Posted by stormcrow on June 15, 2011 at 1:03 PM · Report this
85
If BSIC is so adamant about not getting pregnant, why doesn't she get a tubal ligation? Her husband having a vasectomy was okay with her because theyre both comfortable not having anymore kids, but she's STILL worried. I think she should stop freaking out over the various ways she could get pregnant, and be proactive. DO SOMETHING. Get your tubes tied, lady. Sheesh. There's your simple solution.
Posted by fearfulsymmetry11 on June 15, 2011 at 1:16 PM · Report this
86
as he pseudofucks you

I'm sooo stealing this verb, 'pseudofuck'! Sounds like either a new rock band name, or a cool new blog.
Posted by ankylosaur on June 15, 2011 at 1:25 PM · Report this
87
There is quite a difference between having a desire for an object, say a foot, and having a desire for an action designed to elicit a response, say spanking. People into flogging don't masturbate by whipping a pillow. A shoe fetishist doesn't necessarily need a person in the shoe. If BUNNE isn't feeling it the right way why would Mrs. BUNNE want to go on spanking him?
Posted by Mr. J on June 15, 2011 at 1:53 PM · Report this
88
nocutename, Vennominom, Mr J, you mention things I have been thinking about for a while. Here are some of my conclusions.

Yes, new kinks can be acquired, precisely via the Pavlovian/Skinnerian loophole that you've mentioned. (The little bit of a scat fetish I have came to be in this precise manner.) Of course, there are different levels of enthusiasm -- not all kinksters are equally intense, and second-hand kinksters are probably more likely not to be among the most intense.

Indeed, it is better to have a 'selfish' lover than an indulgent one, and that for a very old reason, that goes back as far as the troubadours and trouvères of the Middle Ages: that one of the best things to have in a lover is passion, and passion is not 'the desire to please you', but 'the desire to please oneself, the desire to get what one is passionate about'. To observe a passionate person -- especially, but not only, of the other sex -- is one of the greatest experiences; and if that passion is for some reason pointed at oneself, then all is set up for a great experience.

It's as if there were two different variables: (a) the extent to which your partner wants or is hungry for you, and (b) the extent to which your partner cares about you. Hot sex comes from (a). Being GGG comes from (b). A number of classical situations show this disparity clearly (Ever heard about the couple who say 'we're great in bed but incompatible elsewhere'? Or the guy/girl who is attracted to the 'wrong person', who s/he knows will be bad for him/her, but still can't avoid falling into bed with? That's strong (a) but weak (b). The GGG guy who wants to indulge his wife but isn't very much into her kinks? Strong (b) but weak (a).)

Which brings me to a problem with GGG theory. If GGG (as seems to be already happening) simply turns into a modern cool synonym for what used to be called 'being a good wife' (you know, indulge your husband, even if you yourself don't like it), then it stops being a progressive concept and actually comes a regressive one. Because it concentrates more on caring about your partner than on being passionate for your partner.

There is a 'good' GGG: call it 'the spirit of adventure'. It's when you're willing to do something new for the sake of your parnter, but not only for that: also to explore, to go somewhere where one hasn't been before, because, who knows what we might find there?... It's like when you go to a new ethnic restaurant, without knowing if you'll like the food, just to see what happens. Or going to a new country that you can't know you will like, again just to see what happens, who knows....?
go to a different, unknown country that you can't know you will like, just to see what happens. The spirit of adventure, like a little devil in our blood, that makes us try new things thinking 'I wonder if I'll like it...' with a little suggestive smile.

Not, again, that you shouldn't try to accommodate your partner. You should. Caring about those one love is one of the most important aspects of relationships. But if you do things only because you care about him/her, without any little bit of 'spirit of adventure and exploration', 'I wonder if I'll find something good in there', 'I wonder what there is after the next mountain...' then you risk becoming your partner's mommy rather than his/her passionate sex companion and co-explorer.

Does that make sense to you?
More...
Posted by ankylosaur on June 15, 2011 at 1:55 PM · Report this
89
@81 blah
But what about my other question in reference to @4? Have your other experiences been that way?

I'll just keep asking personal questions if you don't mind (we can email if you'd rather). What's stopping you from finding the person who will have that "great sex" with you?
Posted by Mr. J on June 15, 2011 at 2:11 PM · Report this
nocutename 90
Ankylosaur,
That makes perfect sense.
I've been long thinking some of the same things, but hadn't articulated them yet, and you do a remarkable job.
Your (a) (b) pairings also explain the phenomenon someone wrote in about here (I forget how long ago and the title of the SLLOTD): before she fell in love with her bf, she was far more likely to indulge his and her kinks, but as she decided she loved him, she got more vanilla. It's a variation on that old "I could never do to my wife what I would do to a slut--despite that I married the slut I once did those dirty things with" phenomenon! As a matter of fact, I think I'm experiencing a bit of a distortion of that now with my new bf--time to talk about keeping the (a) going, even if we're slipping into a (b)-level relationship. Thanks for providing clarity.

Posted by nocutename on June 15, 2011 at 2:13 PM · Report this
91
83-- You're not alone. I wrote earlier in a post that seems to have gotten lost. I wondered about a mother-daughter relationship that involves the mother snooping into her daughter's search history. I acknowledge that parents have a responsibility to investigate if there's a legitimate reason to suspect real harm to their children, harm in the form of abusive relationships, drug abuse, mental illness. But too many parents take that loophole and decide it's O.K. to snoop into their children's private lives when there's no reason to suspect anything. The kid has good grades and great friends. She wants the privacy that comes with being 14. The mother decides to go crazy over that and starts snooping into what the girl searches on? I don't blame her for searching on sneeze fetishes. Serves the mother right.
Posted by Crinoline on June 15, 2011 at 2:17 PM · Report this
92
@88 ankylosaur
Yes! Delightful! The spirit of adventure is exactly it. You need to be open to things you can't know whether you'll like in advance. Life is a journey. If you are an adventurer married to an armchair tourist then expect sad times ahead.
Posted by Mr. J on June 15, 2011 at 2:17 PM · Report this
93
Come on Dan! A certain Republican politician has declared his intention to run. Waddyathink of that. I'm dying to hear from you (and I know it could be messy).
Posted by Warriorpoet on June 15, 2011 at 2:30 PM · Report this
94
@ 45 - you wrote: "Gents, if you love your wife and don't want to have more kids, do it. Man up, and don't behave like 5 year old sissy girls."

Don't you mean "5 year old sissy boys?" After all, women are more apt to be responsible enough to get their tubes tied under the circumstances you've described AND that procedure if much more risky. Saying someone is behaving "like a girl" means you are saying they are being brave.

It's about time people started getting that right.
Posted by Frederica Bimble on June 15, 2011 at 2:45 PM · Report this
kim in portland 95
Maybe I'm a foolish romantic, but BUNNE sounds like he is trying to embrace his wife's kink.

I know that we all want everything to be perfect and just to our liking, but that is seldom how life goes. Sometimes you undertake things for your partner to honor them. You do it for love and because it gives you joy to fulfill their wishes. Isn't the willingness to go there something to be treasured? Isn't the willingness to learn something to be cheered on?

So from the perspective of wishing to learn and inspired by the chorus of the Stones' "You Can't Always Get What You Want" (I've been writhing and sweating through "Let It Bleed" for attitude adjustment and bunda love. Love them guitars.) What can one do to learn to enthusiastically participate in a loved one's kink? In this instance 1) ask questions, 2) watch BDSM porn, 3) read, 4) apprentice himself to her as a student, and 5) encourage her participating in the community. Maybe, others have better suggestions? Of course this will depend on both of their attitudes, his ability to throw himself into learning, and her ability to recognize that his subpar sub skills are seeking to improve and are offered up in the spirit of love. Life together is made by meeting in the middle, it is a journey of going places you never dreamed for yourself while holding tight to your beloved's hand and leaping.

And, that is why I think that a less than enthusiastic arse is worth being spanked. Take your GGG vanilla self on a journey, BUUNE. Tastes change if you willing to open yourself to them, maybe there are white, milk, and dark chunks of chocolate in your vanilla. Jump high and far. Go, go, go!

Best wishes.
Posted by kim in portland http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/11/fast-paced_video_provides_a_fu.html on June 15, 2011 at 2:49 PM · Report this
96
@ 44 - I agree. I had to read his response twice and could only surmise that the letter must have been a wind up and he knew it wasn't real so was being flippant.

I smoked weed for about 3 years in my early 20s - many, many years ago and I remember the exact moment I realised that all it was doing was making me ill. Fast forward about 20 years after the event, I was diagnosed with an anxiety disorder and curiously, yes, marijuana DOES have that effect on people who have those sorts of disorders. His answer is irresponsible, indeed. AND, it is annoying and irresponsible for pot heads to come out with some uneducated analysis as to "why" it's all in someone's head.
Marijuana made me nauseous and so paranoid that I could barely leave the house if I smoked it. It didn't help to be around dimwits who try to have a go at me for not enjoying it.
That diagnosis was one of the best things that happened to me. I don't smoke, drink booze, take any sort of drugs and limit my caffeine to 1 - 2 cups of coffee per day.
People who are keyed up all the time simply can't use too many stimulants and to recommend it, even flippantly is nasty.
Different strokes for different folks.
Posted by Frederica Bimble on June 15, 2011 at 2:56 PM · Report this
97
@ 60 - Take. the. TROLLING. somewhere. else.

Posted by Frederica Bimble on June 15, 2011 at 2:59 PM · Report this
98
@ 60 apologies, that message about trolling was for #61 and not your comment.
Scrolled too fast and got the wrong number.
Posted by Frederica Bimble on June 15, 2011 at 3:03 PM · Report this
99
@95 Kim
No, not foolish. An adult. Great comment, love. Him in Portland is a lucky man.
Posted by Mr. J on June 15, 2011 at 3:23 PM · Report this
100
I gotta say, this has been a truly outstanding set of comments. Bravo, Sloggers.

I'm gonna use that (a)(b) thing. Also, raising my hand as yet another person who feels far far worse with any level of pot in the system.
Posted by TB on June 15, 2011 at 3:42 PM · Report this
101
Ankylosaur makes a great distinction between “caring for” and “being passionate about” regarding the nature of GGG. But to this I would add that adventurousness is not an all or nothing state of mind. I like to indulge the kinks and fantasies of my partners and of course enjoy being allowed to explore mine. I’m willing to tread on unfamiliar and/or uncomfortable ground in the spirit of adventure. But I won’t do BDSM. Even mild spanking is a huge turn-off to me due to the fact that *in my mind* this is an act of violence and I can’t mix what I perceive as violence with sex. If BDSM works for you, knock yourself out (not literally). I’m all for people finding their happiness in life. I have no idea if this is an issue for BUNNE, but it could be that there are some jungles his sense of adventure isn’t willing to explore. If you want to have sex on roller skates dressed up as the Easter Bunny, I’ll be there with bells on (literally). But if you want flogging involved, find somebody else. Ultimately the issue is compatibility. She likes BDSM, he doesn’t. Maybe he can train himself to like it. If not, GGG means bringing in a third. It sounds to me like BUNNE is simply coming to the realization that after all these years he can’t train himself to enjoy it and that there’s a fork looming in the road ahead.
Posted by bugdog on June 15, 2011 at 3:46 PM · Report this
stuckie 102
Fact about the internet: Given the popularity of the Savage Love page, continued Googlings of "sneeze fetish" will soon return this page.
Posted by stuckie on June 15, 2011 at 4:05 PM · Report this
103
Dan, you ARE aware that pot turns lots of people into nervous, paranoid wrecks, right? Pot turns regular me into a twitchy panicky paranoid owl, I can't even IMAGINE what I would be like if I were also nervous to the point of puking.
Posted by Caralain on June 15, 2011 at 4:10 PM · Report this
104
I wouldn't recommend marijuana to someone with anxiety. Back in the day when I smoked, I would be much MORE self-conscious. Preferred it alone. Now, alcohol helps alleviate anxiety! But thank goodness we're not recommending that to a 19 year old. I would recommend she just try to get over it. Or, worst case, see a psychiatrist -- but beware that makes for a preexisting condition if you're diagnosed, and must be reported on some things (for example, a bar application to be an attorney).
Posted by peartree1 on June 15, 2011 at 4:25 PM · Report this
105
Have you people who say that pot makes you more anxious experimented with different strains? I used to think pot made me super paranoid and self-conscious... then I tried an indica rather than a sativa, and got a really great body high instead.

@88: Agree totally about the spirit of exploration. How does the (a)/(b) distinction you describe fit in with BDSM: for instance, what about someone who is a passionate submissive? What if submitting and pleasing their partner *is* what you're passionate about? Does that still work?
Posted by BlackRose on June 15, 2011 at 4:54 PM · Report this
106
@103
The dangers of today’s pot are well documented. I think Dan refers to homegrown and/or older days when the stuff was milder and actually made people relax and “open up to the possibilities” (yes, pun intended).
Posted by Yetanothercutie on June 15, 2011 at 4:56 PM · Report this
107
@104: Many state bars only require disclosure if you currently have a condition that impairs with your ability to practice law. The trend is toward greater privacy in mental health, but every state is a little different.
Posted by BlackRose on June 15, 2011 at 4:56 PM · Report this
nocutename 108
@97,98 (Frederica Bimble),
I'm honestly mystified.
Posted by nocutename on June 15, 2011 at 4:59 PM · Report this
109
I totally get the sneezing fetish! I've masturbated ever since I remember, but before puberty I never connected it to/thought about anything sexual, and sometimes I would think about people sneezing! Its completely like an orgasm, kind of--the build up, the explosive release. In retrospect, I think that's why now I'm really into thinking about the moment of orgasm when I fantasize, and find it sexy to think of climax as an almost involuntary release. I totally get it.
Posted by layladylay on June 15, 2011 at 5:15 PM · Report this
110
Great comments today. Well done, Sloggers!

On the (a)(b) theory of GGG-- well elucidated and very reasonable. It leaves BUNNE in an unfortunate position. EricaP and others identified (correctly, I believe) that BUNNE is afraid for his marriage, perhaps dreading the day when his wife wants someone else. Insecure? Probably. Common? Also probable, at least in cases where a known incompatibility exists. Is a GGG partner who has more (b) than (a) obliged to accept nonmonogamy in order to be GGG? Is his partner (presumably also GGG) obliged to suppress their kink? In a real relationship, these competing interests will be negotiated and hopefully a solution can be reached. If both partners are GGG, does the vanilla one's right to, say, monogamy as a sexual preference at least equal the kinky one's right to his/her kink? Supposing the kink is "optional" (ie not a fetish) and nonmonogamy is a deal-breaker for the vanilla partner, it makes sense that the kinky one should sacrifice his/her kink, but if monogamy is negotiable then the kinky one can be kinky with someone else. If neither monogamy NOR kink is negotiable (e.g. fetish) then the couple should split without delay.

So within each couple, you should try to determine (pretty soon) 1) is there an unshared kink? 2) must it be satisfied? 3) is monogamy required? Unfortunately many people like BUNNE are neck-deep in relationships before they ask these tough questions. What to do when the answers are (yes)(yes)(yes) are the hardest emotionally. Looks like BUNNE is (yes)(no)(yes) which is workable. He does need to relax and talk to his partner about this!

Food for thought: I like monogamy and, psychologically, suspect I need it in order to get aroused. The thought of my husband with another woman is so revolting to me that I could not be sexual in that condition. Do I have a monogamy kink? Or maybe a monogamy fetish since it is truly nonnegotiable. Does it get more respect as a fetish?
More...
Posted by wxPDX on June 15, 2011 at 6:51 PM · Report this
111
Actually, i think she might be able to get pregnant from that. My mom got pregnant with me without any penetration. He came on her leg. The Dr had to pop her hymen to deliver me. True story.
Posted by Tyger on June 15, 2011 at 7:05 PM · Report this
112
@110: If the thought "My husband is not having sex with anyone but me" actually turns you on, then it's a kink. If you really need that thought to get turned on, it's a fetish. Nothing wrong with that as long as you realize not everyone feels that way.

But, if it's just that the thought of non-monogamy, or the thought of your husband with someone else, turns you off, then you don't have a kink or a fetish. It's an anti-kink, sometimes called a squick. It's not monogamy turning you on. It's non-monogamy turning you off.
Posted by BlackRose on June 15, 2011 at 7:08 PM · Report this
113
@110 wxPDX

Can you please explain more about your feelings concerning your husband and monogamy? Why is the thought of sharing him "revolting?" Were you two virgins when you married? Anything you can add would be helpful.
Posted by Mr. J on June 15, 2011 at 7:12 PM · Report this
114
It sounds like Nervous in Candlelight has social anxiety disorder and take it from me, having someone make fun of you when you tell them about it is NOT helpful.
Posted by t123 on June 15, 2011 at 7:34 PM · Report this
kim in portland 115
I'm trying to imagine what lies behind your words, wxPDX @110.

A) monogamy is important to you for exchanging body fluids?
B) monogamy is a natural consequence to how you were socialized?
C) concerns about emotional commitment and fidelity as primary partner?
D) All of the above?
E) None of the above? The above is just silly.
F) This one will sound odd. An old female friend of mine has expressed the same sentiment. In her case monogamy is about security and keeping her home and family together. She's finally willing to acknowledge that she has no interest in having intimate relations with her husband (2 years) and that she started losing interest back in her 30s after their second child was born. She doesn't know why, the kid is 14 y.o. now, and the change in family dynamic hasn't altered things. I've asked if the idea of non-monogamy is revolting is because she no longer finds sex desirable and wishes for her husband to feel the same, it is a threat that he'll want to change the life she sees for them? Does she fear that we will talk behind her back? Is she afraid he'll fall in love and divorce her? She hasn't answered any of my questions, she changes the subject. I find it all very sad. And, I'll confess that I'm angry for her husband, who is also my friend. The inequality of their relationship is too much, as I see her having made a unilateral decision. I'm not saying or suggesting this situation is in any way like your's. Only that the word "revolting" came up with her, and it is a strong word.
Posted by kim in portland http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/11/fast-paced_video_provides_a_fu.html on June 15, 2011 at 8:30 PM · Report this
mydriasis 116
@82
Thank you for your post. I my boyfriend smokes a lot and I see it as a coping mechanism. Sometimes it makes me worry but because we're both so young I try not to focus on it until it becomes a problem that affects me directly.

@112
That's kind of a blurry line though isn't it? I'll grant you the theoretical legitimacy that monogamy is a kink (though I think that's a wee bit dubious) but how do you seperate the "squick" of "he/she is sleeping with someone else" from the "kink" of "he/she isn't". Does that make sense? Kind of hard to explain...
Posted by mydriasis on June 15, 2011 at 9:19 PM · Report this
117
@116: I don't think it's dubious at all that monogamy could be a kink for some people. Some people are turned on by the thought that their partner isn't sleeping with anyone else: you think no one is?
(I didn't say that it's "kinky," which has a different connotation altogether.)

Here's an example that might help you distinguish. A lot of people, like Dan, are really turned off by scat play. It's pretty clear that this is a squick: in other words, they don't get excited by the idea that there is no scat play going on, they get turned off by the idea that there is.

The reason I think 110 has a squick is that she expressed revulsion at the thought of NOT having monogamy. If she had a kink, she would have said "I get really turned on when I think about us being monogamous. It's so hot that he doesn't have sex with someone else." That's pretty clearly not the sentiment she expressed.

In short: feel revolted by something? It's a squick. Feel turned on by something? It's a kink.
Posted by BlackRose on June 16, 2011 at 1:03 AM · Report this
118
BUNNE is interesting! My reactions
1) You can be as GGG as you want and still be incompatable
2) Some 'self-doubt' apprehensiveness is implicit in that he is seeking help -not a terminal flaw
3) Growing-up well adjusted full of the fruits of the spirit rather than riven with flaws and conflicts ought to be good even if that doesn't get you into BDSM! Some people would die to have a partner that is erotically selflessly flexible compared to one that is rigid stuck in a groove.
4) The bottom line is really they both need to randomly explore loads of erotica and grow out of what they do have in common to what they can have in common.
5) Beyond finding a solution to improve things don't fixate on it or the whole marraige will become defined by the <1% of what doesn't work at the total expense of everything else.
Posted by mr-Blues on June 16, 2011 at 2:02 AM · Report this
119
@Redheadwglasses, comment nos. 39, 40: Thank you for your kind and informative response in regard to GGG.
Posted by lenvus on June 16, 2011 at 2:52 AM · Report this
mydriasis 120
@117

Okay I think I can put it clearer now. I find that most monogamous people have both, but usually not either by itself? I don't know... maybe they all just have the squick factor.
Posted by mydriasis on June 16, 2011 at 6:13 AM · Report this
121
The anxiety-inducing effects of pot smoking are well known and documented in the scientific literature. You can look up as much research on this as you care to read on PubMed. Chronic pot use can also initiate long-term paranoia. This was just flat out bad advice, Dan. In contrast to a totally unregulated street drug that has a good chance of exacerbating the problem, there are a number of carefully regulated, FDA approved, anti-anxiety pharmaceuticals that have changed the lives of people like me, with moderate to severe anxiety. I know you intended to be funny, but next time, please be a little less casual when advising on serious medical condition, okay?
Posted by FullyWashable on June 16, 2011 at 6:52 AM · Report this
Styles Bitchley 122
@24 "skepticism is all well and good, but the story as originally written is quite plausible. Stranger things have happened....."

Like what???
Posted by Styles Bitchley on June 16, 2011 at 6:53 AM · Report this
123
@111 and my MIL got engaged 2 days before she discovered she was pregnant. Honest, complete coincidence (if you believe my in laws)
Posted by reb on June 16, 2011 at 7:41 AM · Report this
124
mydriasis, BlackRose

I think the whole kink/squick analysis misses the point when it comes to monogamy. From what I've observed monogamy has nothing to do with sexual desire or sexual revulsion. It's solely a matter of emotional security (or insecurity if you like).

I am poly. I don't care in the least if my wife wants other men and I am so secure in my commitment to her and her's to me that other people have no bearing on our marriage. She on the other hand is mono and views my sexuality as her personal property, even if she were to never have sex with me. It's unthinkable to her that I would have sex with someone else. She would absolutely divorce me if she thought I had done so.
Posted by Mr. J on June 16, 2011 at 7:51 AM · Report this
125
I should add that Dan is quite correct to question whether society should view this belief that monogamy is more important than marriage as normal.
Posted by Mr. J on June 16, 2011 at 7:58 AM · Report this
126
@kim in portland, I know a couple who is almost exactly in the same situation -- except that the wife has finally come round to allowing her husband to have sex with other women, provided she can pretend nothing is happening. So he has it very infrequently: only when he goes to a far-away conference, and even then not always so that she doesn't associate his absence with "that".

In other words, she sorta kinda said to him that it would be OK (she never said the words out loud, it was more about looks and sighs and OKs and "if you must"s and implicit meaning). As a result the husband is walking on eggs to make sure nothing is visible to the wife, and to their two children (boy age 14, girl age 19).

I did ask her once about it, and she avoided the topic. The husband tells me she does when he tries to bring it up to.

It is indeed very, very unfair to the husband, who has always been a model of love and devotion to her, and who could bring himself to have sex with other women only very gradually and with a lot of difficulty (his own dad had abandoned the family to go live with a lover he had been having for a while, thus hurting him, his mother, and his brothers and sisters; he had sworn he would never do such a thing).

But I can also see the viewpiont of the wife. She lost sexual interest in him about 10-15 years ago. She is 6-7 years older than him, and (at least to my taste) less attractive than he is. He was always been bombarded with attention from females (at the university where he teaches, first-year female students flocked to him when he was the undergraduate advisor), and (I imagine) she has been afraid for quite a while that he might want to leave her for a younger model. I can imagine her looking at herself in the mirror and feeling afraid of the little foxy 20-year-old who would eventually steal her husband.

And when we're afraid, we sometimes run away. We avoid the source of fear, because fear is uncomfortable, fear hurts, fear makes you cry. Maybe it started for her as denial -- if I pretend there's nothing then maybe this will disappear... Then it became a habit. And on it goes, as a means to avoid pain.

Avoiding pain is often the way to more pain.
More...
Posted by ankylosaur on June 16, 2011 at 8:00 AM · Report this
nocutename 127
Mr. J @ 124, and ankylosaur @ 126, I think you have both helped to move the discussion of monogamy, unilateral decision-making, and (relatively) sexless marriages into a thoughtful direction.
The whole "is it a kink or is it a squick" thing doesn't seem to pertain to such a complex issue as long-term marriage, loss of sexual desire, jealousy, insecurity, fear, and love present in the situation Kim in Portland described @ 115, and which many people have experienced variations of.

Kinks and squicks seem reserved for particular acts or role-playing games. I have a shoe kink; I get squicked by the idea of adult babies.
Posted by nocutename on June 16, 2011 at 8:10 AM · Report this
128
Black Rose, & others:

Maybe we should call the (a) and (b) different words; (a) and (b) just sounds a bit too uninformative. Let's say (a) is passion, and (b) is love. Passion is an appetite, a kind of hunger, a need to have something. Love is a connection to someone/something, a link, that makes one's happiness depend on the happiness of this other person/thing.

If you take this vision, then a 'passionate submissive' is a person whose passion (= hunger, need) is to submit. S/he hungers for the sensation of submitting to another person's will, of being used as an instrument of the satisfaction of another person's passion.

In fact, the submissive's kink is for the passion of the dominant: the more the dominant expresses his/her passion in what they're doing, the more the submissive connects sexually with him/her and feels fulfilled. It's not that the submissive simply enjoys pain: if s/he, say, burned or cut him/herself while cooking, this wouldn't be erotic. But if his/her dominant drops candle wax on him/her... and smiles and enjoys the, and laughs (all external signs of passion inside), then the submissive is in heaven.

If, on the other hand, the dominant is all care and concern for the submissive -- 'am I spanking you enough, darling? or do you want more? should I go get the pad?' -- then s/he can see there is no passion in the dominant, and since the submissive craves this passion in the dominant (expressed specifically in the form of spaking, humiliation, etc.), its absence is a powerful turn-off. Everything stops, the sub stops asking for more sex, and feels frustrated.

Just like, in a vanilla relationship, the person who is having vanilla sex with a partner who closes his/her eyes and 'thinks of England'. It is possible to go on -- if one enters one's fantasy world and forgets the person one is with. But this is hardly what we'd call 'good sex'.

If you're GGG with love but without passion, then it feels like you're sort of sorry for your partner. 'Oh, poor darling, he needs his kink. Why don't I do what he likes, as a good lover should?' (One of my worst relationships was with a girl who reacted like that to some of my kinks. It was... sad, to put it mildly.)

Now, I'm not saying that things can't change. You can start thinking like that -- 'poor darling' -- and then gradually change into something else. All kinds of things can happen. But it's usually better if you can be GGG not only because of the 'poor darling' factor, but also out of personal curiosity: what's in there for me? Maybe there is something in there for me. Let's give it a try...

And if you can't -- if whatever kinks your partner has are squicks for you -- then indeed there's incompatibility. Then you probably should think about keeping your relationship non-sexual.
More...
Posted by ankylosaur on June 16, 2011 at 8:15 AM · Report this
129
I suppose the worst thing in dealing with the 'poor darling' kind of GGG is that it's difficult to express what it is one doesn't like. How on earth can you say to someone who is willing to do what you want, someone who obviously cares about you, who is trying to bring you sexual fulfillment... that there still is something missing? 'Oh darling, is it my fault? Am I doing something wrong?' It's very difficult to answer this question sincerely in a way that doesn't sound unfair or whimsical. One fears one is wrong, or hurting the other person, if one gives a sincere answer.

And so one finds oneself in the situation of BUNNE's wife above. What can she say that won't hurt him -- when he is in fact doing nothing wrong, he just isn't as passionate about spanking as she is?
Posted by ankylosaur on June 16, 2011 at 8:41 AM · Report this
130
For NIC, what about an anti-emetic? It sounds like a vicious circle-type thing - getting anxious triggers nausea, which makes the anxiety much worse - and very much like the problem I had for the better part of a decade.
In my case, the doctor prescribed tablets to deal with the nausea and, over a few months, the anxiety decreased and the nausea went away almost completely. It didn't matter if I started feeling ill because I had something to stop it, so the idea of being in a nerve-wracking situation wasn't as terrifying.

As for psychiatric help, I'd suggest that if the initial anxiety is particularly bad, but otherwise an anti-emetic might be enough.
Posted by Liadan on June 16, 2011 at 8:52 AM · Report this
131
Mr Ankylosaur - (I'm not sure why you felt the need for the unnecessary heteronormative bit, but I'll pass over that without comment) As someone who has found that b) often feeds a), I'd perhaps phrase it as being willing to discover how far one can go with authenticity in most new directions. After all, there will come a time when one will have gone to the new restaurant enough to be familiar with the menu. You seem on to something in general, and I like Ms Cute's invocation of the woman who became more vanilla as her relationship deepened. I'm slightly apprehensive about Mr J, although I can appreciate where he's coming from given his circumstances. To spend one's entire sexual life going from hotel to hotel in search of increasing thrills and never having a home doesn't seem all that much better than never leaving the house, but again, one understands that his particular patch of grass is rather more brown.

One concern, though, is not to set up the paradigm in such a way that what comes across is that the Vanilla Partner has to (or should) Get With the Program. Great if it can happen - being open to exploration for its own sake is fine, but I don't want to see it set up in such a way that implies that Vanilla is Less Than, or that the inability to go beyond one's point of maximum authenticity in a partner's kink is a failure (whether however far one can go is enough or not and what to do about it is a separate matter).

The previous SLLOTD which comes to mind is the one from "Peggy", whose BF (whom she had gotten into dressing up and being pegged) had gained weight and didn't want to put on his red dress for a while. She didn't want to agree to the vanilla period he'd requested, and wrote to Mr Savage appearing to expect his okay for her impulse to tell him to shape up or be dumped. If memory serves, there was a sentence at the end very similar to, "I didn't sign on for vanilla," or something to that effect.

It's funny, because even though I did occasionally practise unilateral accommodation, I worry about whether it carries a bit of danger about with it. I woke up in the night thinking of "The Gift of the Magi" and the wife who cuts and sells her hair to buy her husband a fob or chain for his heirloom watch that's his one prized possession. Only, instead of finding that he'd sold the watch to buy ornamental combs for her long hair, suppose he'd just appreciated her gift only to discover that he needed a new waistcoat because his old one just looked too tatty, and then that he needed a new suit to go with the new waistcoat, and before long, who knows what she'd be selling?
More...
Posted by vennominon on June 16, 2011 at 8:56 AM · Report this
132
Oh - when I started #131, the last post up was #124.
Posted by vennominon on June 16, 2011 at 8:58 AM · Report this
133
Mr Ankylosaur @128/129 - But then what happens when one knows how far one can go, and it's not as far as the partner? (I'll grant your point about the difficulties with the infantilizing brand of GGG.) Take, say, Mr Ramsay, who can in the great realm of Thought, demonstrate command as far as Q, even if he never succeeds in attaining R. (Will people find Mrs Woolf less objectionable than Miss Austen?) Let's say that Mr Ramsay can reach Q in the kink where Mrs Ramsay gets all the way to Z - then what? Does Mrs Ramsay joyfully accept Q and produce the eight Ramsays of the next generation, try to drag Mr Ramsay kicking and screaming to R, leave him for a man who can reach V, hold Z in her mind as a lovely dream probably unattainable...?
Posted by vennominon on June 16, 2011 at 9:20 AM · Report this
nocutename 134
Poor Darling GGG: I love it.
Also the fact that GGG might just be the new "being a good wife" i.e. lie back and think of England.

Vennominon's insight that (in Savage Loveland, anyway) the vanilla partner is always being told to "get with the program" (but I don't think this is the attitude with the culture at large; it'a probably the reverse) is a good one, too.

What with GGG chits, pseudofucking, bonus babies and passion vs. love, this has been a good comment thread.

I agree that Poor Darling is the death knell of good sex, and it's ironic, as it seems to stem from the correct place and attitude. Back to my theory of selfish sex.

Posted by nocutename on June 16, 2011 at 9:25 AM · Report this
135
Mr. J, it looks as if you're living a cuckold lifestyle -- wife gets to have sex with others, but you don't. Is that how it works? And are both parties happy with the result, without friction, residual tension, etc.? (If so, I'm happy for you.)
Posted by ankylosaur on June 16, 2011 at 9:30 AM · Report this
nocutename 136
Oh Mr. Vennominon, you and your literary allusions. Thank you for them!
Austen, Woolf, and I think there was once someone else, too. But how many Savage Love readers are going to get the "To the Lighthouse" references? Mrs. Ramsey is never going to get to Z--she's never going to try. Her gifts are her beauty and her nurturing love. She would probably practice the Poor Darling variety of GGG, don't you think?
Stick with Austen: Emma Woodhouse and Anne Eliot would never do a Poor Darling. But don't venture into Bronte territory: you can bet your habit-clad ass that Jane Eyre Poor Darlings it all the time!
Posted by nocutename on June 16, 2011 at 9:32 AM · Report this
nocutename 137
ankylosaur @135,
I have been reading Mr. J as saying that while he would not mind at all if his wife had extra-marital sex, she isn't interested in having much sex of any kind with anyone. He's unhappy and loves his wife, and has been courageous enough to share his thoughts and feelings with us, a group of strangers. I hope you weren't belittling him.
Posted by nocutename on June 16, 2011 at 9:36 AM · Report this
138
Mr Vennominon (I suppose by "unnecessary heteronormative bit" you refer to my use of titles like "Mr" -- it is indeed just a quaint little feature of mine without any good or bad implications, it only harkens back to the good old days when I was still learning to speak English),

I indeed agree that there is a connection between (a) and (b), or between "passion" and "love" as I have now framed it. And the connection is indeed an old one: it is reminiscent of unrequited love, this oldest of all traps in the human heart. If A lusts for B, but B does not lust, but does care, for A , what is B to do? Or, in BUNNE's situation, if his wife has a passion for spanking that BUNNE does not share but is willing to satisfy because he does love her, what can the wife do?

I agree that there are connections between passion and love, and that one can lead to the other -- I am reminded of Dan's last podcast, in which a young woman called to say that some women do want to date and have sex with their male best friends. Indeed one can lead to the other. If they were hermetically isolated, there would be no reason to try to be GGG -- it would never work.

My point was simply that it sometimes does not, because passion and love, though connected, are not the same. There is some space for sadness and suffering in this fact, as all of us come to know in the fullness of time.

I also (despite not being vanilla) am concerned with the possibility that the Vanilla Partner might be seen as Less Than. Since GGG -- in the wake of Dan's success as the source of a new sexual ethics -- has become a desired feature, the danger that its shadow side (the fear of not being GGG enough) may make some people think they are Less Than. Which would ironically be the very opposite of Dan's intention when he first came up with the topic.

Maybe the solution is to realize how the whole topic is really about something as old as humanity: the capacity to share certain things, but not others.

I am, for instance, deeply, totally, head-over-hills in love with foreign languages. They are an enormous source of life energy for me, without which I cannot imagine myself. Yet most people I know -- including my beloved wife -- do not view foreign languages in this way.

If she tried -- if she someday said "let's learn Sanskrit / Armenian / Lithuanian together!" just to please me, just to 'be GGG' -- I know it wouldn't work. The passion isn't there; she would soon be bored by conjugation tables and syntactic patterns and other arcana. All the fun of sharing something I love with someone else would disappear -- because this fun is only there if the person also loves the thing I share with him/her.

Of course, she might learn to love Sanskrit / Armenian / Lithuanian as much as I would (if we started learning these languages together). It is worth a try, or two, or three. But if in the end it turns out as I expect, then sooner or later we have to admit foreign languages belong to my world, not hers. We can share many other beautiful things, but not this one.

And maybe this is what spanking is to BUNNE and his wife. Something they cannot share, through no fault of either of them: neither BUNNE nor his wife are 'guilty' of this fact. They may share a number of other beautiful erotic things, but not this one. And if this is important to his wife, then she should go on to explore it with other people -- just as I go on to learn languages by myself, or in language courses, without my wife.
More...
Posted by ankylosaur on June 16, 2011 at 9:49 AM · Report this
139
@135 ankylosaur

No, we are monogamous. I was talking about my feelings, not actions. It wouldn't bother me if she was with any number of other folks. To me, that has nothing to do with our commitment. At heart she is monogamous so it's a moot point. She wouldn't want anyone else even though she is free to do so.
Posted by Mr. J on June 16, 2011 at 9:49 AM · Report this
140
@nocutename, no I wasn't belittling Mr J (and if I gave him this impression, then I haste to present my apologies). It was my impression/hope that he was simply describing his life arrangement with his wife, one that I can relate to since it is also one of my kinks.

The ironic thing you mention with "Poor Darling GGG" -- that it seems to come from the right place and attitude -- highlights the fact that what we want, what we need, when we want sex (and especially some specific form of kinky sex) is not simply the mechanical act itself, but a feeling of harmony that emerges when this act is carried out with someone who appreciates the symphony for its own value in the same way we do.

Or, as someone else put it, sex is not about bodies as much as it is about minds; it's not about fucking as much as mindfucking. And the beauteous mindscapes that it creates as bridges between human beings.
Posted by ankylosaur on June 16, 2011 at 9:56 AM · Report this
141
@Mr J, thanks for the answer. (My wife feels the same way, which is why my own cuckold kink is the stuff of dirty talking between us, but no reality.)
Posted by ankylosaur on June 16, 2011 at 9:58 AM · Report this
142 Comment Pulled (Spam) Comment Policy
143
I'm just wondering if "chits" is a term that has been around for a long time or if Dan got that term from Waterworld like I did. Well anywho, I'm gonna go grab a sip of hydro.
Posted by Special Agent Johnny Utah on June 16, 2011 at 10:23 AM · Report this
144
I'm just curious if the term "chits" has been around for a long time or if Dan just referenced Waterworld while giving sex advice? Anywho, I'm going to grab a sip of hydro. Nice column this week!
Posted by Special Agent Johnny Utah on June 16, 2011 at 10:28 AM · Report this
145
how do you seperate the "squick" of "he/she is sleeping with someone else" from the "kink" of "he/she isn't".

I think the distinction is that you can't have a kink for someone not doing something (or a squick for someone not doing something). Kinks and squicks are active.

Monogamy, especially, is kind of a theoretical concept; a monogamous couple having sex and a poly couple having sex are both just...two people having sex. The two sex acts are physically indistinguishable from each other. What makes the couplings different is the future: the poly folks might go off and sleep with other people the next day, but the monogamous folks will not. In that exact moment, though, it's all just two people fucking.

So having a monogamy kink would be akin to saying, "I get turned on knowing that my partner won't be flogging me in the future." It kind of doesn't work.
Posted by perversecowgirl on June 16, 2011 at 11:22 AM · Report this
nocutename 146
ankylosaur, between the kink of yours you've mentioned, your love of language-study, your knowledge of medieval troubadour themes, your ability to cogently parse a complex concept or two, I'm developing a serious crush.

(Now Frederica Bimble will blow his/her stack)
Posted by nocutename on June 16, 2011 at 12:38 PM · Report this
147
@146 nocutename
I don't know about Frederica, but now I'm jealous of ankylosaur. Love stinks, yeah, yeah...
Posted by Mr. J on June 16, 2011 at 12:59 PM · Report this
148
@26: Agreed. I'm not anti-pot, and it works for a lot of people, but in people with anxiety problems pot can actually make the anxiety worse.
Posted by Orv on June 16, 2011 at 1:51 PM · Report this
149
I was struck by Dan's comment that "no one has ever contracted a fetish—like a cold?—just because someone uttered the name of it aloud." Because that was exactly my reaction fretted in his podcast that seeing a centaur in an ad might cause his kid to develop a centaur fetish.
Posted by Orv on June 16, 2011 at 1:52 PM · Report this
150
Err, 'my reaction when he fretted in his podcast...' rather.
Posted by Orv on June 16, 2011 at 1:55 PM · Report this
151
Hi,

I'm BUNNE (it was originally BUNNEH, which may give you a bit more idea about the dynamics of our relationship) and I'd like to clarify a few things. I tried to keep the initial letter brief, so I left out some details. So, now I'd like to fill in the blanks.

Dan's answer just left me with two further questions:
* If I can't make her happy, what's the point in being GGG?
* What do I do next?
The comment thread has been really helpful for me in finding answers to those. I considered phoning in to the Lovecast so I could have a real conversation, but I have a fairly distinctive voice and I don't want any coworkers who happen to be listening to know the intimate details of my marriage.

My primary goal in my sex life is to keep my wife happy and fulfilled. I'm not doing it for "GGG chits", I'm doing it for her. We've discussed that due to her much wider range of interests, we may hit a point where I'm unable to do that on my own. When we're there, I'm open to her looking outside for either play or sex, as long as she talks to me first rather than just running out and finding a partner. This we have all discussed - and my thinking is that since she hasn't told me she needs to look outside, she doesn't feel that way yet. Because of this, I'm not scared that our marriage is in imminent danger of falling apart - we have several layers of safety nets.

At present we are monogamous. My wife feels a strong connection between the physical and emotional sides of sex, and that's not something she wants to share with anyone but me. I wouldn't object to her looking elsewhere, but it's not something I really want for myself - I just don't think I could give two partners the love that they deserve. One of my wife's closest friends is poly and kinky, and she and her boyfriend have invited my wife to 3-ways. My wife has declined, partly because we are monogamous and partly because there's already some emotional baggage there.

I did talk to my wife (magic!) after sending the letter and we identified a number of issues aside from the energy thing.
* For a lot of our intimate time we are kind of... silly. Which she likes in itself, but kind of kills any mood for kink.
* I've been on various antidepressant meds. The ones I'm on now are working, but for a long time my sex drive was even lower and she didn't want to put any pressure on me.
* Some of the details we'd worked out for our previous sessions weren't working for her. I didn't know, now I do.

We've been together for 6 years and married for 3, not 8 and 4 - so less young and more soon. Her kinkiness long predates our relationship.

To answer specific questions from the comments:
4 + many others) The willing vs passionate discussion makes a lot of sense - but I don't know what I can do about it. I can't MAKE myself be turned on by subbing.
5) It's been something we've talked about, but emotional intimacy in sex partners is very important to both of us, so finding a third who would meet that bar is going to be really difficult. Not saying it could never happen, but meeting the right person will be really tough.
7) I care if she's spanking me (tying me up, gags and blindfolds, etc) because I want her to be happy and fulfilled, and she's incredibly reluctant to go outside for it. She has been initiating vanilla sex more frequently recently.
13) Yes, the age question was anticipation, since Dan has often railed against getting married too young. And yes, I overthink.
17) I have asked. She would like to. Never actually happens.
18) Oddly specific, but good suggestion. :) I have suggested some similar things which she's been open to in principle, but I guess without my enthusiasm it's going to be less of a turn-on for her.
23) Thanks for the thoughts.
53&54) I'm very much her type (as far as men go). I know this because I have seen the other men that she likes. If she wants to be whipping someone else, then I want her to be able to whip someone else, which she isn't doing at the moment.
56) You're right. I'm a bastard for wanting to make my wife happy, and for seeking advice on how to do that.
59&63) She's told me what her desires are. I am doing my best to meet them here. Yes, I'm insecure about my ability to do so, which is why I asked for advice.
66&68) Some of the things I omitted for conciseness seem to be bothering you. Hopefully they're mostly answered by the items above. The thing I like most about my wife being bi is sharing similar tastes in women. You know, it's nice to have things in common. And yes, I was kind of weirded out by the "GGG isn't enough" response.
74) Absolutely - it's not about me, it's about her. But I can't start getting that conditioning unless it, you know, happens.
75) I am well aware of how in-demand she is, thank you. :) And I am TRYING to enjoy it. Just not very successfully.
78) Thank you.
95) You understand the situation perfectly, and thank you for the advice.
101) I'm totally willing to go there. I'm asking how to train myself, and I'm getting some answers.
105) This is kind of my question too. I care more about pleasing her than I do about any specific physical activity.
110) I think the answers to your questions are a little less straightforward. In our case monogamy is highly desirable but not required. Similarly, she can live without kink but we'd both rather she didn't have to.
118) Thank you for the advice. We tend to recommend various videos to each other and sometimes even watch together, but they've tended to be vanilla rather than BDSM. And yes, putting it all into perspective is helpful.

So anyway, thank you all for your thoughts. And sorry for the wall of text.
More...
Posted by BUNNEH on June 16, 2011 at 1:56 PM · Report this
nocutename 152
@ 147 Mr. J,
Ha! Is the "J" for "J Giles Band?"
Don't worry, I'm still in love with you (and Mr. Vennominon, too, if he swung that way!). If any of you lived in California, in the Bay Area, I'd say let's meet for a drink.

Frederica accused me (back @ 97 & 98) of "TROLLING," by which I assume s/he referred to my expressing admiration for some of the contributors to this thread, since I can't otherwise explain that designation. In the usual context of this thread, a troll is someone spewing hate or trying to bait sloggers or Dan, none of which I think I was doing (at least I wasn't trying to do any of that).
Posted by nocutename on June 16, 2011 at 1:56 PM · Report this
nocutename 153
BUNNEH @151,
Thanks for checking in. It seems that there is always so much more background and nuance to these stories, and for whatever reason (probably wanting to keep things concise) the stripped-down versions of issues that make it into the column lend themselves to misunderstandings of the full issue or the subtleties of it, which leads to at best incomplete or inept advice.

On the bright side, you and your wife sound much better off than your original letter suggests, and the fact that you've now talked with her about this issue is encouraging.
Try thinking of submitting as an adventure with something in it for you--maybe take it as a challenge: how much can you stand? How far can you push your limits? This is ankylosaur's point of view, and it might help you get to your own desire. Also keep in mind that if you are submitting to something you don't really find arousing, you're submitting to HER DESIRE in terms of how the sex will play out. Since it isn't your real preference, it really is submission. If you turn it into a mental fuck, it will be so much better, because the real payoff for dom/sub stuff is almost wholly mental.
And then wait for the Pavlovian/Skinnerian effect to kick in . . .

If you can find an antidepressant without the collateral libido-lowering--have you tried wellbutrin (which only works on depression, not anxiety, so which may not be right for you, but has no libido-dampening effects)--I predict you two will be fine in no time.
Posted by nocutename on June 16, 2011 at 2:17 PM · Report this
kim in portland 154
anklysaur,

Thank you.

"And when we're afraid, we sometimes run away. We avoid the source of fear, because fear is uncomfortable, fear hurts, fear makes you cry. Maybe it started for her as denial -- if I pretend there's nothing then maybe this will disappear... Then it became a habit. And on it goes, as a means to avoid pain."

I've often seen this play out in life. But, it doesn't prevent pain in the long haul. Avoiding it can smoother love though. Life hurts sometimes and we're all walking wounded, but that simpily doesn't justify using our fear to hurt others. It just doesn't.

Take care.
Posted by kim in portland http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/11/fast-paced_video_provides_a_fu.html on June 16, 2011 at 2:33 PM · Report this
155
Mr Ankylosaur - No, I was almost driven out of the conversation by part of #88:

"To observe a passionate person -- especially, but not only, of the other sex -- is one of the greatest experiences;"

Had you personalized that, it would not have bothered me, but I read it as an intended generalization of an unnecessarily heteronormative nature. Rather than derail the thread, I just took a break for the rest of the evening.

I'm glad we can agree about the Less Than concern. Perhaps it's just because he's the one who wrote in and he does seem a tad oblivious, but we could just as well wonder, if Mrs BUNNE has tied and spanked him a number of times and, "It was fine," underwhelms her, how much responsibility does she bear for that?

So many people think it's his job to educate himself or that she should be willing to accept that he's trying to improve (if he is, which could be debated). But, if this were my novel, it might be interesting to arrange that while he's busy worrying that there's some secret to being spanked he's supposed to figure out without asking her, she's busy toning down her spanking interest because it's not his forte.
Posted by vennominon on June 16, 2011 at 2:53 PM · Report this
156
Thanks for the suggestions, nocutename. My current cocktail includes wellbutrin. :)
Posted by BUNNEH on June 16, 2011 at 3:06 PM · Report this
157
All I have to say is its a good thing Dan is here to answer cause these people are not so smart.
I have no words for the questions this week. It sounds like the first week of summer for all the kids bored.
Posted by Yumietreat on June 16, 2011 at 3:17 PM · Report this
158
Mr BUNNEH - Ditto the thanks for checking in. It is always nice to get the extra feedback from an original LW, especially when there is much about which one must speculate, and it's brave of most LWs to be willing to check in and respond.
Posted by vennominon on June 16, 2011 at 3:19 PM · Report this
159
@152 nocutename

If you reread 98 you'll see it's a correction that redirects the troll label to an actual troll, not you.

In another life I'd meet for that drink even with the plane ride. And I'd drag the lovely Mr. V with me if necessary, hopefully joining the mile high club on the way.
Posted by Mr. J on June 16, 2011 at 3:42 PM · Report this
160
Oh, now I reread it and the numbering seems backwards. Huh. Maybe the correction is in error.
Posted by Mr. J on June 16, 2011 at 3:52 PM · Report this
161
BSIC, According to "What to Expect Before You're Expecting", saliva is a pretty inhospitable environment for sperm. So, while I'm sure anything is possible, it's fairly improbable that your husband could transfer lots of healthy swimmers to you.
Posted by TTC on June 16, 2011 at 4:08 PM · Report this
162
"How can any normal person associate sneezing with sex?" - WM
Every time I fantasize for more than a couple of seconds I sneeze, not by choice, just happens. I still feel like I'm a fairly normal person.

(I actually use this to my advantage dislodging sneezes that get "stuck")
Posted by Gordex on June 16, 2011 at 4:45 PM · Report this
163
BunneH,

Big thanks for your msg 151 back to the group. It was the most fun I've had here in S Land in quite a while. It's rare that an LW responds in the column.

Reading your takes on the Readers' msgs was fascinating. I had 2 windows open, flipping between your takes then theirs, judging how close each Big Name was to your real situation.

Beyond that, I thought the Letter was a very good summation. I'm sorry about the low sex drive. Is there something you can take for that? Everyone wants to be desired.
Posted by Hunter78 on June 16, 2011 at 5:03 PM · Report this
164
@145: Being turned on by theoretical concepts can definitely be a kink. The idea of cuckolding is one good example... some people are turned on by the idea that they are in a cuckold relationship.

Another example is the idea of servitude or slavery: it's common to be turned on by the thought that someone is your sex slave, there for you to use at some future time when you want.

Or, what about denial? Some people are turned on by the idea that they will be denied sex in the future.

So, it's definitely possible to have a kink for a type of relationship, or for something theoretical, or for something that will or won't happen in the future. Monogamy is no different: there are people who are specifically turned on by the idea of being in a monogamous relationship.

@127, 120: To be clear, I wasn't saying that monogamy is *just* a kink. It is of course very complex. And I wasn't saying that all monogamous people get turned on by it: I would guess most don't get specifically turned on by the idea. But a kink -- that is, being turned on by something -- isn't just for an act or a game. It can be important in figuring out how to have a satisfying relationship.
Posted by BlackRose on June 16, 2011 at 5:17 PM · Report this
165
@128: I don't agree that (b) is love: rather, I would say that love includes both passion and the desire to please (among other things).

As much as I love Heinlein, I can't agree that love is that condition where another's happiness is essential to one's own: that sounds more like a sick codependency to me. If someone you love is unhappy, love means caring about them and trying to help them, not becoming unhappy as well.

As far as the passionate submissive you describe so well, that's one type of passion. What I was thinking was a little different. Instead of hungering for the dominant's passion, I was thinking of a submissive who hungers to please the dominant. The converse of this would be a dominant who wants a particular act, but is fine with someone submitting out of the desire to please, rather than needing a person to really want it as well. (nocutename said it well in #153.)

Basically, I sympathize with BUNNE. While I think it's fair to want a particular act, it's hardly a fair request to ask your partner to want it, crave it, or be passionate about it, as well as do it. It's very frustrating to be told "It's not enough that you do what I want, you have to want to do it as well," because that's not really something you can control.

My thoughts on this are biased by my own kinks -- I want someone to please me even if they're not into it -- but it seems to me that *doing* a particular thing is all you can fairly ask a GGG partner to do, and you should be satisfied with that.
Posted by BlackRose on June 16, 2011 at 5:48 PM · Report this
nocutename 166
Mr. J,
Do you and Mr. Vennominon live in the same area?
Posted by nocutename on June 16, 2011 at 6:03 PM · Report this
167
I don't know. I live in MA.
Posted by Mr. J on June 16, 2011 at 6:39 PM · Report this
nocutename 168
I have only been to North Adams and Boston. And had sex in some little graveyard at the Vermont/Ma border.
Loved Boston and would like to return--when I didn't freeze to death!
Posted by nocutename on June 16, 2011 at 7:10 PM · Report this
echizen_kurage 169
@152/nocutename:

I don't think Frederica meant to accuse you of trolling; if you look at #98, she apologized for accidentally typing your comment number (#60) explained that she meant to complain about #61, written by Professor, who happens to be the trolliest troll who ever did troll.

Long story short: you're cool; Professor isn't.
Posted by echizen_kurage on June 16, 2011 at 7:37 PM · Report this
nocutename 170
Thanks, echizen_kurage (@ 169)
But Frederica actually corrected directing her trolling comment to the Professor and redirected it to me.
Posted by nocutename on June 16, 2011 at 8:40 PM · Report this
171
@kim in portland,

You're welcome! It's a pleasure to read your opinions--they are usually so well balanced, well thought-out, caring and compassionate.

"I've often seen this play out in life. But, it doesn't prevent pain in the long haul. Avoiding it can smoother love though. Life hurts sometimes and we're all walking wounded, but that simpily doesn't justify using our fear to hurt others. It just doesn't."

That is my biggest fear for this couple. The wife seems to be developing a certain anger against what her husband 'could be doing' (and now is doing), a resentment that she cannot express because she's still trying to pretend nothing is happening and that only accumulates. And the husband feels very guilty of his escapades, and compensates by being extra attentive to her and her needs... while knowing inside that this situation is unfair to him. Which means he is also repressing bad/angry feelings.

So maybe love will be smothered there, if they don't find a way of escaping this dynamics. A great pity, kim. They are wonderful people, warm and welcoming. Alas, this is apparently not enough to prevent people from falling into self-made traps. :-(
Posted by ankylosaur on June 16, 2011 at 8:48 PM · Report this
172
@nocutename, Mr J, thanks for your comments! :-) It's nice to be appreciated! :-)

I don't know as much about English literature as you and Mr Vennominon; but I did study Provençal and am moderately acquainted with medieval Provençal poetry (up to modern times, with Mistral and the Félibrige).

Posted by ankylosaur on June 16, 2011 at 8:54 PM · Report this
173
@151 (Mr. BUNNEH), thanks for the extra information on your situation! Looks like the communication between the two of you is good, and I'm glad to see you have nothing against your wife spanking others if the fancy strikes her.

You asked one question that I've been giving some thought to: if being willing isn't (always) enough, what's the point of being GGG?

That's a fair question. I wonder what you think of the answer I sketched in a previous post, namely: there are things you can and can't share. Languages are something I love with a passion I can't really describe in less than a thousand words. My wife doesn't love them at all. As a consequence, all language-related activities in my life are strictly my own, in my free time, and she's never included. I go out to language courses (I'm learning Estonian now), I buy books and read them, I check out Internet sites in Estonian, listen to Estonian music, listen to Estonian news in Estonian... all by myself, without her being there at all.

I wished I could share this with her. It's something deeply pleasurable to me, and the few times I was with someone who felt at least a little passion for languages the way I do... I can't even begin to describe how wonderful that was. But my wife, alas, is not one of them, and never will be.

She also wishes she could share my passion. She wants me to be happy, and she wants to be a part of that happiness. She tried learning Sanskrit with me (a language she likes for other reasons: she loves Eastern philosphy). It didn't work. So we stopped.

Perhaps, Mr BUNNEH, spanking and subbing is a little bit like this for you and her. And that's all: no big catastrophe, no "I can't make her happy"... just this specific activity is not for both of you.

You don't have to satisfy every single sexual need your wife has; as long as you're OK with her getting these needs satisfied somewhere else.

You share a sex life with her -- the kind you described as being somewhat "silly" (ah! sex at its best is always funny and a little silly...). The two of you have that -- and you can cherish it and enjoy it and let it grow and go wherever it will. You don't have to force yourself to include everything -- again, as long as it's OK for her to get her other needs met elsewhere. Which apparently is OK with you.

Of course there's the insecurity: but if I'm not the alpha and omega of sexuality for her... then maybe she'll find someone who includes more, who can have the silly sex and also the spanking with her? And then leave me?

My experience in life is that every time we try to do something out of fear that someone will leave us if we don't, we end up creating negative feelings in ourselves and in the person in question. And, since life is dangerous, in the end even doing what we think will allay our fears is also no guarantee. She might leave you even if you did it for her.

Life is dangerous. There is no guarantee that she won't leave you someday. Or that you won't leave her someday. Hell, there's no guarantee either of you will be alive a month from today.

So I prefer to concentrate on being a good person for myself, not for others. My wife loves me for who I am; I try to be myself, which includes caring about her and her needs, not because I'm afraid of what might happen if I don't, but because I'm interested in them. (That's why I chose her as a life partner after all, right? I was interested in her, in her needs; they attracted me.) I'm attracted to her. I'm attracted to her needs. They turn me on. ;-)

And I hope that that's enough.

Does that make any sense to you, and your situation?

All the best!
More...
Posted by ankylosaur on June 16, 2011 at 9:21 PM · Report this
Free Busch On Tuesday 174
@25

Savage Love shows up as the last result in a google search for Sneezing Fetish.

I think daughter and mother might have an awkward convo coming...

(I hope it ends up on the slog)
Posted by Free Busch On Tuesday on June 16, 2011 at 9:24 PM · Report this
175
@165 (Ms BlackRose): perhaps choosing "love" as a label for (b) was not the best move. I needed a word to oppose to 'passion' and which still contained positive aspects and feelings; it wasn't "lust" but it was "caring for"; a motivation for doing things one may personally not enjoy 'for someone else's sake'. "Love" felt like a comfortable label for that; but the word has so much meanings and significations... I'm open to a different suggestion of a label for (b) if you have one.

I think the happiness of loved ones is important to us -- 'essential' may be a bit much; but if I love someone, then whether or not this person is happy must matter to me, and matter a lot; more than a friend's would. If this is not the case, then I think what I feel for that person is not love. (In fact, in your view, how is a loved one different from a friend? After all, you certainly would also care about whether or not a friend was unhappy, and try to help them, wouldn't you? Is it only a matter of instensity?)

Indeed the submissive hungers for the pleasure of the dominant, in all cases. But I don't think that's all (you may disagree, and I'd love to hear your take on it). It seems to me that if the submissive feels the dominant does not want his submission, that s/he does not actively want to be pleased, if s/he (his/h/er sexual self) is not feeding on that submission, then it is not really something sexual. If the dominant is merely pleased as she would be by a good waiter in a restaurant -- i.e. a certain service has been performed well, to the dominant's satisfaction --, then it would seem there is nothing sexual happening: just a service, a chore. In this case, the submissive actually becomes just an unpaid servant, not really a sex partner. That would strike me as unfair.

The submissive submits out of the desire to please -- no denying about that. But there must be a spark coming from the dominant to the submissive: there must be a desire in the dominant for the submissive's submission, an appreciation, an enjoyment (in their coded language) of the submissive's submission, beyond the mere service that the submissive is rendering. If this spark, this 'evil smile', this 'feeding' is not there ... then I think something vital is missing: lust, sex, that which makes the dominant-submissive relationship something very different from the relationship a lord has with his butler (even if the submissive fantasizes that s/he is the dominant's butler).

I know this sounds a bit self-contradictory, and I'm not sure I'm expressing it well. Do you see the point, or should I try to reformulate?

Last, but not least -- I also sympathize with BUNNE. He is doing nothing wrong; in fact he is doing everything right. Still, it may be the case that the absence of passion in his submission -- the 'lack of energy' he alluded to in his comment here -- makes it less enjoyable for his wife. Now, of course this is not something he can control, and of course it would be unfair to demand it -- just as it would be unfair for me to demand that my wife enjoy foreign languages as much as I do. But this doesn't change the fact (if indeed it is so) that this passion may be necessary, or at least important, for her enjoyment. It's not a question of fairness or justice; it's an empirical question about what is or isn't necessary or important for her enjoyment. Just like some women need a lot of clitoral stimulation in order to have an orgasm, maybe some people need to feel their partner's passion for them ('he really lusts after me!') to enjoy certain sex acts.

More...
Posted by ankylosaur on June 16, 2011 at 9:56 PM · Report this
176
#164: @145: Being turned on by theoretical concepts can definitely be a kink. The idea of cuckolding is one good example... some people are turned on by the idea that they are in a cuckold relationship.

No, I get that. But not only is monogamy a theoretical concept, it's a negative/passive concept: not sleeping with other people.

A person turned on by the idea of their partner fucking other people (or wearing high heels, or shitting in a diaper, or whatever) is aroused by the idea that their partner is doing something; a person with a monogamy kink would be aroused by their partner not doing something, and I don't think that's how brains work.

Going back to the example from my previous post, which concept makes more sense to you: that a person is turned on by their partner not flogging them and having no plans to flog them in the future, or that they just don't like being flogged?

For that matter, if not-sleeping-with-other-people was a turn-on, monogamy fetishists would be mildly aroused all the time. Any time you interacted with another person and that person wasn't actively fucking someone other than you or talking about fucking someone other than you, you'd get a bit of a thrill.
Posted by perversecowgirl on June 16, 2011 at 11:39 PM · Report this
177
@176: I would assume the turn-on is the positive or active concept of having an exclusive relationship. The idea of having an exclusive relationship is more like having a cuckold, poly, or slave relationship -- all of which are also concepts that turn people on -- than it is like "not being flogged." A monogamy fetishist would probably not be turned on by just having a conversation without an actual established monogamous relationship there.

I agree that it doesn't really make sense to be turned on by not being flogged: that's more likely to be a squick. However, you can certainly be turned on by a negative: that's pretty much the whole point of orgasm denial fetishists, and cuckold fetishists may also get turned on by the idea that their wife is denying them.
Posted by BlackRose on June 17, 2011 at 12:34 AM · Report this
178
To BUNNEH
1) Try taking up adrenaline sports with your wife. Rock climbing, parachuting, speedway racing,etc. Maybe with the external danger the bedroom scene will centre back on the need for intimate loving affirmation aka vanilla sex
Posted by mr-Blues on June 17, 2011 at 12:56 AM · Report this
179
"To yield readily - easily - to the persuasion of a friend is no merit with you."

"To yield without conviction is no compliment to the understanding of either."

The conversation just induced that little exchange to pop into my head.

I suppose that, given the wide range of preferences or even requirements in a kink for the participation level, reactions or status of an indulgent partner, it's almost tempting to place a successful kinky-vanilla relationship on a par with Mr Darcy's Accomplished Woman.
Posted by vennominon on June 17, 2011 at 5:56 AM · Report this
180
NIC needs to find someone with a vomit fetish. Problem solved!
Posted by Kaboodles on June 17, 2011 at 8:08 AM · Report this
181
"Sneezing fetish" definitely could be a prank on Mom, as others have noted. Or, if a serious search, not necessarily indicative of actually sharing that fetish. She could find it funny, interesting, or awful.

Other possibilities: Are there other people whose search histories would show up on their computer? Someone repeatedly sternuphilia-rolling the daughter (BEANS), hiding a link that is an Internet search query like google.com/search?q=%22sneezing+fetish%2…; ? (Incidentally - cans of Sterno are not snuff; I had to find out the hard way.)

Anyway, without bringing this particular search up, Mom might talk to her daughter about sex, the Internet, sex and the Internet, and Internet privacy sometime. Seems that she may not have, when she should have a long time ago.
Posted by Be Stern on June 17, 2011 at 8:54 AM · Report this
182
Re Buttsex: I was a confirmed top for all the same reasons until at 58 I met my perfect man - also a confirmed top. With patience and experimenting with products (Anal Blu is the best) and cautious use of poppers, I am now a confirmed bottom. LOVE IT! Be patient and slow but the best is having an understanding partner.
Posted by Waspy on June 17, 2011 at 8:57 AM · Report this
lewlew 183
If being near someone makes you feel like puking, there may be some toxic products on that person. We are putting toxic crap right on our skin a lot more than you think. Just search "toxic products" and see what comes up. And don't put lavender on a boy.
Posted by lewlew on June 17, 2011 at 12:37 PM · Report this
184
@183: You don't need to worry about lavender oil... there were only three cases reported of boys who grew breasts, and they happened to use very common products containing a small amount of oil. There's never been an actual study done on lavender demonstrating a causal link.

"As the report states, breast growth in pre-pubertal boys is extremely uncommon, yet three cases are reported within a short period of time, and all in the same clinic. Considering that some 200 tonnes per annum are produced of both lavender and tea tree oil, that most of this goes into personal care products, and that very little of the evidence presented for these 3 cases is convincing, the press reports of caution are premature.

"No connection was established between the in vitro work and the three cases, and the case for tea tree oil having an effect on prepubertal gynecomastia is especially weak. Phytoestrogens generally have a very weak hormonal activity, and it is implausible that the amounts of essential oil that enter the body from product use would have a significant effect. Further research will hopefully clarify these issues."

http://www.safbaby.com/can-lavender-oil-…

(Yes, it's an aromatherapy site, which is complete nonsense, but the critique of that report is still valid.)
Posted by BlackRose on June 17, 2011 at 1:17 PM · Report this
185
@175: Oh, I totally agree that if you love someone, their happiness matters to you. My point was just that it shouldn't be essential to *your happiness.* In other words, it shouldn't make you unhappy if they're not. That doesn't mean it can't be extremely important to you.

This is somewhat of a pet peeve of mine because people frequently confuse unhappiness over someone with caring, or loving, or someone being important.

As far as what submissives enjoy, I'm not one, so it's hard for me to fully understand. But I'm sure that there are many different ways of being submissive, ranging from simply wanting to please someone you care about or love, to feeding on the dominant energy and sparks and enjoyment of submission the way you describe, and anywhere in between.

I think the difference has a lot to do with an established relationship: if you do something for someone you don't know well, it doesn't mean the same as if you do it out of love, submission, or servitude for someone you have an established relationship with. The former is just doing something while the latter is part of an ongoing effort to please someone, and I think it's the latter that communicates the spark and passion you describe. Does that make sense?

I don't think I phrased my original point very well, so let me try to clarify: if a submissive is submitting only as type (b), doing a specific act because they want to please their partner, but the submission is part of a greater type (a) passion to please their partner, this could still please a dominant who craves the type (a) passion. In other words, I think that the passion can come from a relationship oriented towards wanting to serve and please, even if the submissive isn't passionate about the specific act.

I also think that this dynamic, the passion being about the relationship rather than the specific act, doesn't need to be limited to explicitly D/s relationships. For instance, if BUNNE's wife really wanted sex, or spanking, and BUNNE agreed, BUNNE's wife may be able to get the passion or spark she needs just from the fact that BUNNE is really passionate about pleasing her, being GGG in general, and so forth, rather than that passion needing to be expressed in that particular spanking.

Or, it might not be enough for her. You're right that what people need isn't always fair, and it isn't always something a reasonable GGG person can provide, and in cases like this there may just be a fundamental incompatibility, as sad and frustrating as that is.
More...
Posted by BlackRose on June 17, 2011 at 1:38 PM · Report this
186
BUNNEH @ 151

Thanks for the response and clarification. I compliment your efforts. Asking for help is half the battle. I'm rooting for you and your wife!
Posted by bugdog on June 17, 2011 at 2:27 PM · Report this
187
Brilliant discussion. Thank you to everyone who engaged with my question on whether or how monogamy (or polyamory or other kinds of relationships) could be considered a "kink". It has prompted me to think about how exactly monogamy makes me feel. Some days it does stem from lack of security, and then the resulting feeling is negative (I used the word "repulsed" before and some days it is like that). More frequently (most frequently... like, ALL DAY TODAY!) I get exceptionally turned on thinking specifically about my monogamous relationship. I get so hot knowing my guy and I are exclusively intimate with each other; thinking of him right now thinking of me and wanting to come home just to me has me getting too excited to type fancy thoughts. It has nothing to do with frequency, either, as we happily have sex once-twice/day (maybe more on weekends), initiate with similar frequency, and rarely turn each other down. So kink or squick?

Suppose you have another kind of kink. Could the thought of not having it (or the reality of losing it) freak you out enough so that it would be temporarily redefined as a squick? Monogamy, with all its abstractions, is a more complex situation of course, but for the sake of argument consider just any kink.
Posted by wxPDX on June 17, 2011 at 2:48 PM · Report this
188
@187:

I get exceptionally turned on thinking specifically about my monogamous relationship. I get so hot knowing my guy and I are exclusively intimate with each other; thinking of him right now thinking of me and wanting to come home just to me has me getting too excited to type fancy thoughts.

Yeah, this sounds like a kink to me. It's obviously something that turns you on specifically.

You can have a kink along with the corresponding squick, like in your case, monogamy is your kink and the thought of your partner having sex with someone else is the squick. And there are people who feel the exact opposite: for some people, their partner having sex with someone else is a turn-on, and the idea of monogamy is a turn-off.
Posted by BlackRose on June 17, 2011 at 3:16 PM · Report this
Seeds 189
This bullshit gets way too much attention. Have an opinion? Kill yourself.
Posted by Seeds on June 17, 2011 at 6:05 PM · Report this
190
Gape in awe at Santorum Tartare: you'll froth at the mouth for it!

http://news.yahoo.com/s/livescience/2011…
Posted by Santy's gift on June 17, 2011 at 9:08 PM · Report this
191
NIC Oh honey. I know EXACTLY how you feel. Had that happen over and over and over and it started at about your age. It was unbelievably embarrasing. After YEARS and trying several different anti-depressants without helping, a nurse practicioner put me on a beta blocker. It's a cheap (2 months supply for $8) little drug that a lot of professional musicians take to help them overcome stage fright. A very low dose of the beta blocker stopped the panic attacks and throwing up on my dates and stopped it the first time and it's never happened since. It is prescription medicine, so you must ask your doctor or a nurse practicioner about it. Go TODAY and ask if a beta blocker might work for you.
Posted by Uncle Ulser on June 17, 2011 at 9:59 PM · Report this
Sea Otter 192
Black Rose @105,

I've tried indica strains (organic, no less). I found it to be not as harsh as the usual commercially available sativa stuff, but it still did not make me feel good. You know how some people just really hate onions? They may find the onion less bad if it's a milder type, or there's less of it, but they still don't like it. I'm like that with weed. Basically, a couple of modest tokes of an indica strain merely makes me feel paranoid and nervous and like I should go lie down for a while, as opposed to giving me a bad case of the spins and making me throw up, as I've had happen with the sativa dominant weed most people get. Because I so rarely smoke weed, I have wondered if this has more to do with my low tolerance than with me being somehow "different." I don't really care to attempt to build up a tolerance in order to find out, though.
Posted by Sea Otter on June 18, 2011 at 2:28 AM · Report this
shw3nn 193
@176 "which concept makes more sense to you: that a person is turned on by their partner not flogging them and having no plans to flog them in the future, or that they just don't like being flogged?"

The latter makes more sense but, knowing what I know about human nature, I do not disallow for the former. I am sitting here imagining a person whose partner buys a flogger and ties their partner down and walks around with the flogger, talking about using it but not using it. Suddenly, it makes more sense to me as a fetish than something like blowing up balloons.

See, not only is it possible to me that not be flogged could be a kink, I think you could DO 'not being flogged'.

"a person with a monogamy kink would be aroused by their partner not doing something, and I don't think that's how brains work."

I disagree but, if it were true, it would be a problem easily solved. Think about your mate masturbating when he or she is horny and you are unavailable. You have a positive that actively implies a negative.
Posted by shw3nn on June 18, 2011 at 9:01 AM · Report this
Lechugo 194
Totally agree with the answer to WM, but I think it was incomplete. May I add, there must be some stuff WM could do to lead her daughter's kink to develop healthily and regretless, isn't it?
Posted by Lechugo on June 18, 2011 at 9:20 AM · Report this
trysexual 195
Anal sex can be super painful but the thing to keep in mind is that if you are nervous or stressed your ass will be tighter =more pain. Stage fright could add to the pain factor. It might help to try using a dildo, a small one at first and work your way up to one that is bigger. Take it slow, use lots of lube and try to get some enjoyment out of the pain, because a certain amount of pain is inevitable. Also it can be a lot better on an empty stomach. Especially if you want to go deep. Best of luck, enjoy your fucks.
Posted by trysexual on June 18, 2011 at 2:15 PM · Report this
196
Women who want to ease into anal sex should consider older men. It takes them much longer to get big and hard enough-- time to enjoy more, better foreplay.
Posted by Hunter78 on June 18, 2011 at 2:52 PM · Report this
197
BlackRose, who wrote: I also think that this dynamic, the passion being about the relationship rather than the specific act, doesn't need to be limited to explicitly D/s relationships. For instance, if BUNNE's wife really wanted sex, or spanking, and BUNNE agreed, BUNNE's wife may be able to get the passion or spark she needs just from the fact that BUNNE is really passionate about pleasing her, being GGG in general, and so forth, rather than that passion needing to be expressed in that particular spanking.


That is indeed an interesting question. I suppose there's a whole typology of needs and desires (going way beyond mere submissive-dominant relations) and how they may seem to be alike ('I need a spanking') but may actually be different at a deeper level ('I need a spaking from someone who is passionate about sexual spanking' vs. 'I need a spanking from someone who is willing to do it out of love for me even though it does nothing for him/her'.

My gut reaction -- as far as I know there's no theory on the topic -- is that people will differ with respect to that much as they differ with respect to their kinks. Some people are specific ('I need this act'), others are generic ('I need the feeling any act of this kind -- e.g., submission -- gives me'); some people are intense ('I need a lot of it'), others are less intense ('I need a little bit of it'), etc. etc. etc.

This suggests to me that there are many, many ways in which people can differ, and if so, many, many ways in which they might not be fully compatible. This highlights again another one of Dan's axioms, namely, that nobody gets 100% satisfaction, because whatever sexual elements inhabit one's sex self, the odds are against all of these elements (or their necessary counterparts) being also found in the person you're considering as a sex partner. In the end, it may even be that 'sexual signatures' -- the details of what turns you on, and how exactly it turns you on -- may be as personal as fingerprints.

Who knows? :-)

Interesting discussion.
More...
Posted by ankylosaur on June 18, 2011 at 3:04 PM · Report this
trysexual 198
Bunneh: Have you tried any natural meds for depression? I was on lithium for 6 months for Bi-polar disorder and it completely killed my sex drive, and my personality. St. John's wort is often used to treat depression, though it is not good for people who suffer from mania (like me). Also Kava kava can be good for treating anxiety and stress if you have any issues with that. You seem like a nice guy but maybe a bit tense. I grind up a teaspoon of kava kava root in a coffee grinder and simmer it in a cup of water for 5 minutes. It does wonders for my moods, makes me more chill. Also for helping your sex drive: cinnamon! Don't underestimate the stuff. Chew on a cinnamon stick or use cinnamon in your food, you'll thank me later. On the opposite end of the spectrum, licorice root is good for mellowing you out, but bad for sex drive.. unless you want to last longer and come slower. This is just stuff have learned from my own experiences, but well worth trying. Good luck with your lady, and try not to put too much pressure on yourself or on her. Sometimes being too analytical can put a damper on the natural flow of things, peace
Posted by trysexual on June 18, 2011 at 7:57 PM · Report this
mydriasis 199
@Hunter

that's the most creative (and honest!) 'older man' pitch I've ever heard. And I've heard a LOT.

still sums up why I don't go for older men, but I have to hand it to you, still.
Posted by mydriasis on June 18, 2011 at 9:45 PM · Report this
200
Long-time reader, first-time commenter. Great discussion this week!

@60/61/97/98 misunderstanding: 60 & 61 were posted at the same time, and for me, 60 is nocute's, while 61 is Professor's. It seems like this is a computer glitch, and that they are changing places because the timestamps are the same.

BUNNEH, I applaud you for responding in the comments, a rare thing to see! You seem to be making good efforts to include your wife's kink in your sex life, and communicating with her about it is definitely the most important part.

I am a... I guess you could call it a semi-kinkster. I have engaged in, and thoroughly enjoyed, BDSM, both topping and bottoming, and yet can have a fulfilling sex life without it. There have been some great suggestions already given, and I've thought of a few more that you might find helpful:

1. Read some of the BDSM how-to books out there. The lover that I shared my first scenes with gave me Janet W. Hardy & Dossie Easton's The New Bottoming Book and The New Topping Book. I thought they were great, though I haven't read any others.
2. Have you gotten a comprehensive list from your wife of all of the activities that really get her hot? Maybe there is something in that list that REALLY WILL do something for you, too :) As others have suggested, explore, explore, explore. There are many different activities that fall under the BDSM umbrella, there may be one (or several!) that is/are just right for both of you.
3. It does take a lot of energy to do a scene, especially if the top is one for pre-planning (like I am). But, BDSM DOESN'T HAVE TO BE CONFINED TO SCENES. There are many degrees & forms of BDSM, and some can be spontaneously included in any sexual encounter. And, counter-intuitive as it may seem, the sub can even initiate! If you are already having sex, and she is on top, you could put your hands over your head, wrists together, and sweetly ask if she would pin your wrists to the bed. You could walk up to her when nothing sexual is happening, eyes downcast, shameful look on your face, and say "Mistress, I've been naughty; I deserve a spanking." If you indicate a desire to submit, her desire to dominate just might be activated.
4. I have realized that I unintentionally lied when I said I could have a fulfilling sex life without BDSM... there is one thing that falls under that umbrella that I could not do without, nipple-tweaking. I mean hard tweaking. And, I have had a lover who wasn't really into BDSM in general, and didn't like being spanked, but who got really hot when I tweaked his nipples hard. Others haven't. But, if your nipples are erogenous zones for you to begin with, you could ask your wife to try tweaking them. As with many pain-inducing acts, it is best to start softer, and increase the intensity as you go. If you find you like it, it could be a nice little outlet for her inner-masochist.

I wish you the best of luck; you seem to be on the right track!
More...
Posted by Jasmine on June 19, 2011 at 12:11 AM · Report this
201
Dear NIC, I really feel for you though my situation is a little different - I too am not able to have sex at the moment - any moves in that direction and I freeze in panic and it is totally out of the question. At some point I started to regain memories of having been raped as a toddler, and it's clear that my panic is a kind of PTSD from that event. It was a great relief to get a reason and a diagnosis! I am currently working with a great therapist and things are improving slowly. I think Dan's suggestion to see a therapist is right on - I'd suggest someone who specializes in working with trauma, just in case you have some kind of sexual abuse trauma that you don't yet know about. I wish you all the very best - hang in there, you are not alone.
Posted by Libya on June 19, 2011 at 12:13 AM · Report this
202
oops, getting tired, should've been "inner-sadist."
Posted by Jasmine on June 19, 2011 at 12:13 AM · Report this
trysexual 203
Oh yeah Bunneh, I should have added in my post at 198 that St. John's wort is a powerful plant and that before (and if) you decide to take it you might want to talk to your doctor. It has interactions with many anti depressants and also has negative effects with methadone and cocaine. I have heard that taking cocaine while taking st. John's wort can kill you.. I don't know for sure. But I can tell you for sure that it interacts very badly with methadone. Just a heads up, never underestimate the power of plants. Also about the marijuana suggestion in regards to NIC: I was pretty hooked on weed for 7 years and my excuse being that it helped my insomnia and social anxiety. Once I quit I realized that I was better off without it. I used to smoke daily and it was a preoccupation of mine. It's good to have something to help you chill out, but chamomile and valerian can do just as much for a person as smoking weed can for others. Just my opinion.
Posted by trysexual on June 19, 2011 at 2:39 AM · Report this
mydriasis 204
St. John's Wort: I personally loved it. But it interacts with the pill so I had to stop taking it. It's really nice though.
Posted by mydriasis on June 19, 2011 at 6:53 AM · Report this
205
I like weed for its consciousness changing. I like the torrent of thoughts it unleashes-- but that flood can cause anxieties. I am more sociable nowadays under its influence. It makes sex sexier.
Posted by Hunter78 on June 19, 2011 at 7:01 AM · Report this
trysexual 206
Oh yeah BUNNEH one last thing: don't ever take kava kava and alcohol at the same time. It is really bad for your liver.
Posted by trysexual on June 19, 2011 at 5:59 PM · Report this
207
NIC, you are not alone. I am a 48 year old man and I have struggled with relationship/sex anxiety my entire life. When I was young I would have bad anxiety attacks on dates. When I finally managed to lose my virginity at age 29, I was physically sick afterward (humiliating to say the least). Over time I slowly learned to relax enough to go on dates without having anxiety attacks and even have sex, but I have not managed to resolve my fundamental anxiety issue. I have only had sex about 7 times in my entire life with 4 different women, and while I am able to "perform" I am never able to relax enough to have an orgasm during sex or experience the joy that it should be. Clearly, I have some deep psychological blocks in this area, and I have spent time with a shrink seeking to understand it. Dan's advice is good - consider finding a good shrink to talk to - it can often be very helpful.
Posted by anonymous37485 on June 19, 2011 at 7:29 PM · Report this
208
Why on earth WOULDN'T Buck Angel's site be blocked on the library computer? It's sexual content, they block all sexual content at libraries. Thank god. Those are public computers, in a public place, go look at hot mangina somewhere else. Fuck.
Posted by H2 on June 20, 2011 at 8:43 PM · Report this
209
"See a shrink" is such shitty advice, especially to a 19 year old girl. Q: "I'm poor and flat-broke. What should I do?" A: "Be rich!"

What 19 year old girl can afford a shrink? Unless she's fortunate enough to have parents who'll pay for it.
Posted by GoodEntertainmentBadAdvice on June 20, 2011 at 11:15 PM · Report this
210
209 -- If she's at a university/college, a lot of them have very low-cost or no-cost mental health services. And dealing with social anxiety and the social pressures of that age are very common issues.

Even if she's not at college, there are a lot of low-cost and no-cost mental health services in large-ish cities. She should look online and see if she can find anything reasonable in her area. Getting a hold of this issue will allow her to live her life more fully and be well worth the money in the long run.
Posted by KL on June 21, 2011 at 8:16 AM · Report this
211
I just want to add something about the sneeze fetish kid. At 14 she's in the early stages of discovering sexuality, and might just be seizing upon some 'way in' - something that gives some insight into the irrationality and intensity of sexual desire. Sneezing is also an involuntary action, and might be analogous for her to her new understandings of the involuntary nature of desire. Doesn't mean she's going to be a sneeze-fetishist for life. (and of course, so what if she is)
Posted by jesss on June 21, 2011 at 9:48 AM · Report this
212
@207 - have you considered a sexual surrogate? Seems like that kind of thing might help.
Posted by gnot on June 21, 2011 at 3:08 PM · Report this
213
Aw man...no column this week?
Posted by Ismene on June 21, 2011 at 10:31 PM · Report this
214
the link's not working, but the column has gone up. take an old URL and replace the number with 8742121 and that gives you today's column

dan doesn't seem to realise that putting a website address for the column title means that it redirects to that website and not to his column. he's done this before. sort it out, dan
Posted by pinguifolia on June 22, 2011 at 3:54 AM · Report this
215
It's not out of line for a mother to be looking at her 14 year old daughter's online activities. She may not like what she's seeing but it's better then being surprised one day when her daughter vanishes because she snuck out to meet some pedophile exploiting her kink.
Posted by painintheass on July 1, 2011 at 5:01 PM · Report this
216
Dan, you were very logical, straightforward, and gentle with Worried Mom. It made me smile. There are so many more things a teenager can search on the internet that are far worse. Maybe you "freed" her to explore her own kinks, you never know.

My son is 19 now, but when he was 14 he left his MySpace page open on my computer. It had music, his friends, some older cousins (who would tell on him in a minute if there was anything dangerous!), so I told him, "take down the booze pix and half-naked women". He did, and that was where we left it.

I like to think that I was reasonable, and didn't turn it into a culture clash between us and he used the computer responsibly.
Posted by CA Mom on July 9, 2011 at 6:53 PM · Report this
217
Oh Dan, would you really advise the mother of a 14 year old to stop reading things that made her uncomfortable about her daughters activities? You did! Were you asleep when you wrote that? Good grief, that is that woman's job, seriously! My mother would have benefited from the knowledge of what I was doing with boys at 14, and thank goodness I didn't get fucking pregnant. This response from you really disappointed me, it is her fucking JOB to be concerned about her CHILDS sexual life. Looking at the internet for that shit often leads to some sort of predatory behavior, often by someone older, and more cunning than the minor.

my advise to her would be to cut off all private internet privaleges, put the computer with internet access in a family room and make sure the child knows that not only does her mom support her individuality, she does not support the secrecy.

p.s. sounds kinda like a bullshit scenario anyway...but not completely unlikely.
Posted by 4jenstewart on July 22, 2011 at 5:22 PM · Report this
218
To GAYASS: Cherry Flavored Anal Ease. Works likes a charm, and then your Santorum tastes like cherries! Win, win. Oh and, breathe deep. You can take it, I just know you can.

To Worried Mom: One thing Dan may have overlooked is that sneezing releases a lot of endorphins quickly, much like an orgasm does. So, I can see how someone may be curious about the correlation; possibly getting "turned on" by sneezing, and wondering why. Since she's young and experiencing her new-found sexuality, I wouldn't be overly concerned.
Posted by whynotfreak on July 29, 2011 at 10:06 AM · Report this
dolly 219
Here's an aggressive female: http://mysexlifewithlola.wordpress.com/
Posted by dolly http://mysexlifewithlola.wordpress.com/ on October 2, 2011 at 5:29 AM · Report this

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