Savage Love Podcast
Check out the all new Savage Lovecast site!
Got a question for Dan Savage?
Call the Savage Love Podcast at 206-201-2720
or email Dan at mail@savagelove.net.
Savage Love Archives
-
May 8
Reading Comprehension Fail -
May 1
Move On -
Apr 24
No Problem -
Apr 17
Dick Holes -
Apr 10
A First
More from Dan Savage
-
Slog Overnight
-
SL Letter of the Day: Gonna Boil My Laptop After Answering This One
-
Azerbaijan's Contribution to Eurovision
-
New Gun Enthusiast...
-
Meanwhile in Toronto
Books by Dan Savage
American Savage
It Gets Better: Coming Out, Overcoming Bullying, and Creating a Life Worth Living
The Commitment: Love, Sex, Marriage, and My Family
Things I've Learned from Women Who've Dumped Me
Skipping Towards Gomorrah
The Kid: What Happened After My Boyfriend and I Decided to Go Get Pregnant
Savage Links
- Babeland
- Fleshbot
- Good Vibrations
- Joe Newton/Savage Illustrations
- Planned Parenthood
- Spreading Santorum
- Planned Parenthood's Teen Wire
- Kinsey Confidential
- Carnal Nation
- Tiny Nibbles
Want a Second Opinion?
Contact Dan Savage
Savage on YouTube
Loading...
spreadingsantorum.com
June 22, 2011
+ Enlarge this Image
Joe Newton
I'm a single 24-year-old gay actor/singer/comedian who's going to be a doctor in a few years—I have varied interests—and I think being in a porn flick would be really hot. I don't know what the ramifications of ramming on cam could be with regard to my future career. The field I want to go into is a very specific burgeoning branch of medicine generally unrelated to sex, but still involving patient care, and I want to be on the cutting edge of this type of medicine. I don't know how much the world of medicine pays attention to this sort of thing when checking up on prospective doctors. Thoughts?
Wants To Film Lusty Orgasmic Lovin'
I don't know if appearing in porn will make going into medicine more difficult, WTFLOL, but it sure can fuck up a political career.
Sigh.
You know, for a few minutes it looked like Anthony Weiner was going to beat this thing. But the prudes and hypocrites—in Congress and the media—carried the day.
Back to you, WTFLOL: Considering the amount of time and money that you're going to invest in becoming a doctor, and considering the recent moral panic about a few stray dick pics, I would advise you to err on the side of not appearing in commercial porn, which would require you to show your face. But go ahead and show everything else on an amateur porn site like XTube—just edit out any shots that show your face and don't let the camera linger on any distinguishing features (a distinctive tattoo that's visible when you're clothed, the parasitic twin that juts from your neck). And, hey, if you want to make porn, have it seen by thousands of people, not have it live forever online, and maybe win a big cash prize, you can enter HUMP!, my annual amateur porn festival. Details at www.humpseattle.com.
My boyfriend and I have been together for 10 years. A few years ago, he informed me that he was molested in high school by a teacher and was in a sexual relationship with this man until he met me. I don't have a problem with him being bisexual, but I do have a problem with him not having a problem with his molestation. He feels it was consensual; I feel this man preyed on him. He used to drink to avoid dealing with his emotions. He stopped drinking when he met me, but this secret causes him to have panic attacks. I help heal his wounds, but what do I get in return? Not what I want. I give him love and I accept him—and he tells me that he doesn't want kids and doesn't want to marry me. He also hardly touches me. We're better friends than lovers. If I leave him, he'll have no one. If I stay, I feel alone. We have fun and make each other laugh, so it's not all bad. But I'm pathetic, right?
Midwest Mess
I'm going to get slaughtered for this: There are people out there who have panic attacks and drinking problems, don't want to get married or have children, are cold, distant, withholding "lovers," etc., who weren't molested by high-school teachers or anybody else. I'm not saying that your boyfriend's history is unrelated to his other issues—I can't say that—but if he doesn't regard that relationship as the source of all his troubles, MM, you should stop insisting that he feel terrible/victimized/damaged because that's how you think he should feel.
Are you pathetic? No, MM, you're not. You're in a relationship that's not living up to your expectations, and it's making you unhappy. Now you have a big choice and a smaller subchoice to make: Either you can adjust your expectations and stay with this guy, MM, and try to appreciate the things he brings into your life, or you can refuse to adjust your expectations and (1) be miserable in this relationship or (2) leave this guy and get out there and find someone else or die trying.
I'm a 22-year-old male with a vaginal fisting fetish. I have yet to tell my girlfriend of three years about this. First, although we're in love, no relationship is 100 percent guaranteed, and fulfilling this particular kink would result in drastic and permanent physical changes that could ruin her for anyone else if we don't make it. Second, I'm not sure how to ask. I can't just say, "Hey, hon? Mind if I jam my arm in there?" Third, even if she were for it, I don't know where to start!
Fetishist In Serious Turmoil
First, at three years, all your kink cards should be lying faceup on the table. She's not obligated to get into fisting to please you, as you're aware, so you're not going to "ruin her" just by broaching the subject.
Second, you say something like "I think vaginal fisting is hot and I'm curious what you, the vagina-haver in this relationship, think about it."
Third, I'm tempted to say, "You start by removing your watch," but no one wears a watch anymore and all wannabe vag-fisters should start by reading Deborah Addington's A Hand in the Bush: The Fine Art of Vaginal Fisting. "If fisting ruined one for other partners, I'd have been fucked outta luck a long time ago," Addington said when I shared your e-mail with her. She recommends plenty of lube and lots of Kegels, if your girlfriend goes for it. "The only 'drastic and permanent' changes that occur are the changes of mind and body that come when one realizes how much pleasure one can have," Addington continued. "That's life altering. The stretched-out black hole of doom is a myth. I'm 46 and can still walk up a flight of stairs without dropping the Ben Wa Balls—and that after plenty of fisting, with more than one partner."
Speaking of gaping orifices: Rick Santorum told CNN's Don Lemon that he has gay friends and he loves his gay friends and they love him back. The openly gay Lemon, oddly enough, did not demand names and contact information for these gay friends.
I'd like to hear directly from the gays who love Santorum despite Santorum's belief that gay people are no better than dog fuckers and child rapists, his promise to repeal the DADT repeal, his desire to write anti-gay bigotry into the US Constitution, his opposition to gay adoption, and his belief that consensual gay sex should be a felony. If Santorum's gay friends love Santorum as much as Santorum loves his gay friends, I'm sure they would be only too glad to speak to the media about their love of Santorum.
Santorum told Lemon that his imaginary gay friends prove that he's no homophobe. But if you believe—as Santorum has said repeatedly—that gays and lesbians are a threat to the family and a danger to the country, then you should be openly and proudly homophobic. So either Santorum is lying when he says we're a threat to the family, a danger to the country, etc., or he's lying when he says he has gay friends.
Which is it, Rick?
IN OTHER SANTORUM NEWS: The number-one Santorum site—www.spreadingsantorum.com—is now being regularly updated by a smart group of new bloggers. For all your Santorum/santorum news, head to www.spreadingsantorum.com!
Find the Savage Lovecast (my weekly podcast) every Tuesday at thestranger.com/savage.
Share via
2
Fisting is one of my all-time favorite activities, but if a guy felt it was a synonym for lifetime commitment, I'd never have experienced it.
The vagina is a tube of muscle. It can stretch and contract.
A word of advise, FIST: when you're in to your wrist or forearm, lean down and give her clit a lick. She'll wonder how she ever lived without fisting before.
The vagina is a tube of muscle. It can stretch and contract.
A word of advise, FIST: when you're in to your wrist or forearm, lean down and give her clit a lick. She'll wonder how she ever lived without fisting before.
3
Oh please on the fisting thing. I've had two children, been the happy recipient of "fisting" (ugly term for a great act, btw) and have had no complaints regarding my va-jay-jay or the shape it is in. Fist away!!!
5
MM,
You say that you're better friends than lovers, and you certainly sound more like friends (you have fun, make each other laugh) than lovers (he hardly touches you, doesn't want to marry you).
Why don't you simply break up and re-catagorize the relationship? Once you're no longer a couple, his reaction to his past relationship with a former teacher no longer has the same effect on you. His failure to be bothered by it has no impact on you. Ditto his not wanting to have kids (either with you or at all), his drinking, whatever.
Let all that go: his past, your expectations about how he should respond to or be affected by his past, his clear non-interest in you sexually.
Then go out and find a relationship with someone who wants to be with you as a girlfriend.
You say that you're better friends than lovers, and you certainly sound more like friends (you have fun, make each other laugh) than lovers (he hardly touches you, doesn't want to marry you).
Why don't you simply break up and re-catagorize the relationship? Once you're no longer a couple, his reaction to his past relationship with a former teacher no longer has the same effect on you. His failure to be bothered by it has no impact on you. Ditto his not wanting to have kids (either with you or at all), his drinking, whatever.
Let all that go: his past, your expectations about how he should respond to or be affected by his past, his clear non-interest in you sexually.
Then go out and find a relationship with someone who wants to be with you as a girlfriend.
6
Fisting is awesome and it's really not a huge deal. I have no idea where FIST got the idea that it's at all extreme or much different than fingering or using a toy. You can even do it (slowly and gradually) without the girl realizing that you managed to get four fingers and a thumb in there.
Dan, thanks so much for not blaming someone's problems on an early consensual student-teacher relationship! That's really great to hear.
Dan, thanks so much for not blaming someone's problems on an early consensual student-teacher relationship! That's really great to hear.
8
Good column, and good to know that "the stretched out black hole of doom" is a myth.
I wonder if there's a career niche out there for gay people willing to pretend to be friends with politicians? Hopefully there's no price high enough for someone like Santorum to find somebody.
Then again, friendships can be weird, and compartmentalization is really easy for people. I have family members who have told me that they consider my polyamorous relationship just as immoral as pedophilia, and we still send cards and visit and have friendly chats. But that's family. I don't know if I could suck it up that much for a friendship.
I wonder if there's a career niche out there for gay people willing to pretend to be friends with politicians? Hopefully there's no price high enough for someone like Santorum to find somebody.
Then again, friendships can be weird, and compartmentalization is really easy for people. I have family members who have told me that they consider my polyamorous relationship just as immoral as pedophilia, and we still send cards and visit and have friendly chats. But that's family. I don't know if I could suck it up that much for a friendship.
10
Nailed it on the gay porn or any porn (that shows your face) for would be professionals.
Our fister fetish guy hardly has what could be called a "fetish" if he's doing his g-friend for years and she doesn't even know about it. It seems more like my crucifixion "fetish" which is more like an infatuation with something novel and transgressive than a real fetish.
Still, whoever thought the black hole of doom was inevitable has never seen a vaginal delivery. It may take some Kegels but long term problems from fisting? Please.
MM is NOT pathetic- not yet. If he hardly touches you now before the wedding you are going to be on AshleighMadison.com within 6 months after the wedding. Dan didn't pick up on it, perhaps his Gadar is failing? The guy had a consensual gay relationship as a younger man. Now he doesn't want to have sex with his girlfriend. Care to bet the fellow is not "into" cunnilingus, or vaginas in general? The writer's solution is DTMFA and find a straight boyfriend. No your not pathetic, but you will be when you find out your boyfriend is pulling a Larry Craig wiping Santorum off the public restroom floor.
Our fister fetish guy hardly has what could be called a "fetish" if he's doing his g-friend for years and she doesn't even know about it. It seems more like my crucifixion "fetish" which is more like an infatuation with something novel and transgressive than a real fetish.
Still, whoever thought the black hole of doom was inevitable has never seen a vaginal delivery. It may take some Kegels but long term problems from fisting? Please.
MM is NOT pathetic- not yet. If he hardly touches you now before the wedding you are going to be on AshleighMadison.com within 6 months after the wedding. Dan didn't pick up on it, perhaps his Gadar is failing? The guy had a consensual gay relationship as a younger man. Now he doesn't want to have sex with his girlfriend. Care to bet the fellow is not "into" cunnilingus, or vaginas in general? The writer's solution is DTMFA and find a straight boyfriend. No your not pathetic, but you will be when you find out your boyfriend is pulling a Larry Craig wiping Santorum off the public restroom floor.
11
I wouldn't let someone fist me if he thought it'd ruin me for life. If he's that dumb, he can pack his bags.
12
MM My guess is that his tendency to drink heavily is dependent on factors other than his taboo relationship. People respond to transitional periods differently: a person who has found alcohol to be comforting in one way or another may drink more in an attempt to find solace. It's not necessarily because he was abused but because he was coming to terms with himself on different levels. Also, when you're in high school, who you do is up to you.
13
"You know, for a few minutes it looked like Anthony Weiner was going to beat this thing. But the prudes and hypocrites—in Congress and the media—carried the day."
I am big Dan fan, think he generally has good, spot-on advice for many people, but have a tiny bit of a problem with the "let's just ignore" Weiner's weiner and get on with it. It most circumstances his act would go unnoticed and uncommented upon, but Weiner is a public official, he lives in a fish bowl and knows he needs to at least circumspect in his actions. That he was not shows very poor judgement.
What has not been explained in the press or anywhere else for that matter are the circumstances of his "sexting."
- Was his "sexting" with the young woman/women in question consensual? If not, he may be guilty of sexual harassment.
- Did he at any time use government resources - his official GI-issued BB, Internet or other account to send picture of his junk? If he did, he should resign. Any Federal employee who did the same thing using taxpayer-funded resources would be fired.
Weiner held a position of public trust. He may not have betrayed that trust (maybe his wife?), but he certainly showed very poor judgement. I am a USG employee with a security clearance and know that were I to do something similar I could jeopardize my clearance and my job. If I used my Gov't issue BB or my Internet or e-mail to engage in such activity, view porn, get off on my lunch hour or whatever I would be shown the door. No problem with Weinter finally having the grace and decency to go away! Sorry Dan!
I am big Dan fan, think he generally has good, spot-on advice for many people, but have a tiny bit of a problem with the "let's just ignore" Weiner's weiner and get on with it. It most circumstances his act would go unnoticed and uncommented upon, but Weiner is a public official, he lives in a fish bowl and knows he needs to at least circumspect in his actions. That he was not shows very poor judgement.
What has not been explained in the press or anywhere else for that matter are the circumstances of his "sexting."
- Was his "sexting" with the young woman/women in question consensual? If not, he may be guilty of sexual harassment.
- Did he at any time use government resources - his official GI-issued BB, Internet or other account to send picture of his junk? If he did, he should resign. Any Federal employee who did the same thing using taxpayer-funded resources would be fired.
Weiner held a position of public trust. He may not have betrayed that trust (maybe his wife?), but he certainly showed very poor judgement. I am a USG employee with a security clearance and know that were I to do something similar I could jeopardize my clearance and my job. If I used my Gov't issue BB or my Internet or e-mail to engage in such activity, view porn, get off on my lunch hour or whatever I would be shown the door. No problem with Weinter finally having the grace and decency to go away! Sorry Dan!
14
Been reading Dan for many years and generally find his advice spot-on for most people. Have to disagree with him on Weiner and his weinter. Said Congressman, as a public official, lives in a fish bowl and should at least have been circumspect in his actions. That he was not, shows a lack of judgement that would lead me to question my trust in him.
Further, what were the circumstances - never clearly explained - of his Internet dalliance? Was the "sexting" consensual? Did he use official USG resources, i.e. his Gov't issued BB, an official Twitter account, Gov't computers, etc. to send picture of his junk? In the former case, his actions might constitute harassment and in the latter, even if consensual, he should resign b/c any other USG employee would be fired for abuse of tax-payer funded resources.
I am a USG employee with a security clearance. I hold a position of public trust. If I did the same thing, on my own time or not and it became public I know the counter-intelligence folks might be taking another look at me. If I did what Weinter did with my GI BB or my e-mail or my computer, I would be shown the door. So, I am glad that Rep. Weiner had the decency in the end to resign. Sorry Dan!
Further, what were the circumstances - never clearly explained - of his Internet dalliance? Was the "sexting" consensual? Did he use official USG resources, i.e. his Gov't issued BB, an official Twitter account, Gov't computers, etc. to send picture of his junk? In the former case, his actions might constitute harassment and in the latter, even if consensual, he should resign b/c any other USG employee would be fired for abuse of tax-payer funded resources.
I am a USG employee with a security clearance. I hold a position of public trust. If I did the same thing, on my own time or not and it became public I know the counter-intelligence folks might be taking another look at me. If I did what Weinter did with my GI BB or my e-mail or my computer, I would be shown the door. So, I am glad that Rep. Weiner had the decency in the end to resign. Sorry Dan!
15
So now fisting is added to the list of Required Standard Features?
As for MM, while the beau in question hardly sounds like a prize, IF there's an MF in this partnership (and I don't insist that there is), then I'll go with the partner who is telling the other partner how he has to define his past history and what has to be a problem for him. Out of all her possible complaints, she leads with THAT? Not his drinking or his panic attacks, disinterest in marriage, children or touching her, but his not regarding a past relationship as molestation.
Given the time line, I'm guessing she's fairly comfortable with what she has, even if it's not entirely satisfactory. One might even think that she wants to be told she's pathetic, that somehow that will make staying more viable for her. All in all, an interesting letter.
As for MM, while the beau in question hardly sounds like a prize, IF there's an MF in this partnership (and I don't insist that there is), then I'll go with the partner who is telling the other partner how he has to define his past history and what has to be a problem for him. Out of all her possible complaints, she leads with THAT? Not his drinking or his panic attacks, disinterest in marriage, children or touching her, but his not regarding a past relationship as molestation.
Given the time line, I'm guessing she's fairly comfortable with what she has, even if it's not entirely satisfactory. One might even think that she wants to be told she's pathetic, that somehow that will make staying more viable for her. All in all, an interesting letter.
16
How is telling MM her boyfriend being exploited by his teacher was fair game -- but not telling her when such a relationship isn't ok -- not baffling to her and to every-fucking-one else? Is this how Slog establishes itself as a counselor to public figures: by arbitrarily sayng high school students are fair game? I think some rephrasing of the advice here to MM is required.
17
"Ruined for life?" Forget about letting you fist her, dude, you should worry about her letting you NEAR her again with those kind of misogynistic views. If fisting permanently disfigured a woman's vagina such that a man could never again get pleasure from it, then every child would be an only child. Your fist is not bigger than a baby's head.
The vagina is designed to stretch to enormous sizes then snap back into shape. Honestly, sometimes I wonder about the state of biology classes in this country. Does this dude even know where babies (literally) come from?
The vagina is designed to stretch to enormous sizes then snap back into shape. Honestly, sometimes I wonder about the state of biology classes in this country. Does this dude even know where babies (literally) come from?
18
Sounds like MM is trying to find some outside reason why the relationship isn't working out. It couldn't be because you're not compatible, it must be because he was 'molested' in high school! Sometimes people don't work well together, and it's not always because their childhood sucked.
19
@9 (Mr. J):
I've never fisted a guy; no one's ever asked me to or expressed interest. While I would be willing to if a partner wanted it, I'm afraid that initially at least, my response would probably be of the ggg variety we discussed last week, rather than an example of selfish sex. But then again, I derive an extraordinary amount of sexual satisfaction in thinking of myself as someone capable of providing sexual satisfaction (ooh: symbiosis and feedback loop again!), so if my partner really got off on my fisting him, I could probably get more into it myself.
My own interest in it is two-fold. I was going to go into it, but it's probably too personal for this format; suffice it to say that neither of the reasons I love being fisted translate automatically to wanting to fist a man.
I've never fisted a guy; no one's ever asked me to or expressed interest. While I would be willing to if a partner wanted it, I'm afraid that initially at least, my response would probably be of the ggg variety we discussed last week, rather than an example of selfish sex. But then again, I derive an extraordinary amount of sexual satisfaction in thinking of myself as someone capable of providing sexual satisfaction (ooh: symbiosis and feedback loop again!), so if my partner really got off on my fisting him, I could probably get more into it myself.
My own interest in it is two-fold. I was going to go into it, but it's probably too personal for this format; suffice it to say that neither of the reasons I love being fisted translate automatically to wanting to fist a man.
20
Hey Dan -- since you bring up Mr. Ricky in the column, and also in the Newsflash trailer, I am passing along FYI the observation that there appears to be a campaign currently in progress at Wikipedia to whitewash Santorum's actual record and beliefs (not to mention a concurrent effort to eliminate all mention of his association with the eponymous "neologism"). Looks like his know-nothing supporters are preparing in earnest for the coming "Santorum for President" campaign. Refer to
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Santorum
and
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Campaign_fo…
I suggest that SavageLove and its committed readers might consider resurrecting the original "santorum neologism" in response, so that "Santorum for President" will come to be publicly associated with a whole new meaning, having to do with "frothy substance".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Santorum
and
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Campaign_fo…
I suggest that SavageLove and its committed readers might consider resurrecting the original "santorum neologism" in response, so that "Santorum for President" will come to be publicly associated with a whole new meaning, having to do with "frothy substance".
21
MM's boyfriend is not bisexual. He is gay. Bisexual men fuck their girlfriends silly enough that they don't get all emo drama queen and write to Dan about his past weirdo relationship with his HS teacher that he doesn't define to her liking. And that is why their relationship is not working.
Why is this so complicated for people? If you're not getting fucked well and/or your partner is an asshole, DTMF. Life is too short.
Why is this so complicated for people? If you're not getting fucked well and/or your partner is an asshole, DTMF. Life is too short.
22
@15 (vennominom): I don't mean to suggest that fisted be added to the list of "standard features," by any means. My only objection to FIST's letter was the ignorance it displayed regarding female anatomy. The whole "drastic and permanent physical changes that could ruin her for anyone else" rhetoric was not only histrionic, but it tapped into old misogynistic ideas of a woman's being "ruined" by having sex.
It strikes me, however, that perhaps the letter-writer's disproportionally dramatic conception of the effects of fisting may actually constitute his kink. His interest in the act may stem from the feeling that he would be so imposing his "mark" on his woman that she would be permanently and discernibly altered. That indeed is the ultimate power kink.
It strikes me, however, that perhaps the letter-writer's disproportionally dramatic conception of the effects of fisting may actually constitute his kink. His interest in the act may stem from the feeling that he would be so imposing his "mark" on his woman that she would be permanently and discernibly altered. That indeed is the ultimate power kink.
23
aaarrgh: Meant to write 'I don't mean to suggest that FISTING be added to the list of "standard features," by any means' in the first sentence of posting #22.
24
Well, I, for one, have learnt a LOT tonight.
@11. I was kinda thinking that his fetish made him willfully ignorant. Was that part of the fetish, that he would ruin her somehow? Somewhat creepy in his stupidity, eh?
@11. I was kinda thinking that his fetish made him willfully ignorant. Was that part of the fetish, that he would ruin her somehow? Somewhat creepy in his stupidity, eh?
26
#16, I don't think Dan is excusing what happened with the teacher as okay. Instead, he's pointing out that there's no reason for the letter writer to attribute her relationship troubles in general to this incident, and she shouldn't be insisting that her boyfriend feel a certain way about what happened. That doesn't mean that teacher/highschool student relationships are acceptable.
After ten years with someone who doesn't share your life goals of marriage and kids, and who barely touches you, it's high past time to move on. It doesn't matter why the boyfriend is the way he is; regardless, the girlfriend needs to get a grip.
And I totally agree on the porn thing. Employers can go to surprising lengths to investigate hires. I wouldn't risk that.
After ten years with someone who doesn't share your life goals of marriage and kids, and who barely touches you, it's high past time to move on. It doesn't matter why the boyfriend is the way he is; regardless, the girlfriend needs to get a grip.
And I totally agree on the porn thing. Employers can go to surprising lengths to investigate hires. I wouldn't risk that.
27
I love you, Dan, but this was largely a shitty column. Normally you bitchslap them and then give some good advice. Midwest only got (I think a mis-directed) bitchslap, and Fetishist received both insufficient bitchslapping and advice.
28
I'm agreeing that FIST's misconception that he would ruin his partner's vagina is very possibly part of the fantasy for him. I also notice that this misconception is a big part of his excuse for not being able to tell his LTR, so there may be more reason he's preserved that false image.
Maybe he didn't do the research he should have before going around making claims about permanently broken vaginas - but at least he's doing it now. Everyone has to start somewhere and asking Dan counts.
Maybe he didn't do the research he should have before going around making claims about permanently broken vaginas - but at least he's doing it now. Everyone has to start somewhere and asking Dan counts.
30
Um... I'm sorry, but just as much as not all women like cock shots (and some do!), not all women are set up for fisting. Just because some people are able to do it no problem doesn't mean everyone can/should.
Sorry, all this 'fisting is no big deal' bit irks me. I've turned down more than one guy because their penis was too big. No way am I letting somenoe put their whole goddamn fist in there. Pass.
But if you like it, that's rad.
Sorry, all this 'fisting is no big deal' bit irks me. I've turned down more than one guy because their penis was too big. No way am I letting somenoe put their whole goddamn fist in there. Pass.
But if you like it, that's rad.
31
re: Suzy @26: if there is no circumstance in which the boyfriend's relationship with his teacher is ok, then her interpretation is completely acceptable.
In order to dismiss her conclusion, there has to be a circumstance in which the boyfriend's relationship with his teacher is ok. No one is providing that circumstance.
All the advice here to the girlfriend to look for something other her boyfriend's relationship with his teacher for causality is letting down MM.
In order to dismiss her conclusion, there has to be a circumstance in which the boyfriend's relationship with his teacher is ok. No one is providing that circumstance.
All the advice here to the girlfriend to look for something other her boyfriend's relationship with his teacher for causality is letting down MM.
32
Mydrirasis (@30):
When I said that I wasn't suggesting that fisting be a standard part of everyone's repertoire, that's what I meant. Even a woman who would "be able to do it" might not enjoy it or might not WANT to do it. I was just trying to correct the letter-writer's (I think) willful ignorance of the damage it does.
When I said that I wasn't suggesting that fisting be a standard part of everyone's repertoire, that's what I meant. Even a woman who would "be able to do it" might not enjoy it or might not WANT to do it. I was just trying to correct the letter-writer's (I think) willful ignorance of the damage it does.
33
"Hey, hon? Mind if I jam my arm in there?"
Arm?! This guy is not just ignorant about width but about depth!
Arm?! This guy is not just ignorant about width but about depth!
34
@22 has it right. The real act isn't the kink, and the real act isn't going to satisfy the urge unless the partner knows what he's really looking for and perhaps playacting the experience into something (ruinous) that it's not.
36
@33 KCFrance
That was humorous exaggeration. Do you really think Dan is that ignorant? Also, how is he ignorant about width?
That was humorous exaggeration. Do you really think Dan is that ignorant? Also, how is he ignorant about width?
37
Mike/31, even if the guy was "preyed upon", as she put it, the crucial thing is that nobody gets to tell him how he should feel about it. If he wanted to have a sexual relationship with the teacher--even if the teacher did something horribly wrong--then there's no point trying to force him to feel like a victim who was violated. That's only going to make things more confusing than they already are.
Girlfriend is heavily invested in being his wound-healer, and apparently thinks the reason their 10-year relationship isn't going where she wants it to go is because boyfriend hasn't yet sufficiently grasped his own victimization. What does she want him to do exactly, to prove that he's not "okay" with it? Whatever it is, he could do that, and he could get over the panic attacks, but still not be the future husband and father she wants him to be. She needs to walk away from this now, and stop trying to be his therapist.
Girlfriend is heavily invested in being his wound-healer, and apparently thinks the reason their 10-year relationship isn't going where she wants it to go is because boyfriend hasn't yet sufficiently grasped his own victimization. What does she want him to do exactly, to prove that he's not "okay" with it? Whatever it is, he could do that, and he could get over the panic attacks, but still not be the future husband and father she wants him to be. She needs to walk away from this now, and stop trying to be his therapist.
38
Dan,
If there was ever a case for sitting down with a neutral 3rd party (therapist/friend/clergy) to talk out things, it's MM. If she just swallows this, it's going to lead to a break up.
I've seen this with friends, seen this with clients.
Also, having worked with a lot of kids who were taken advantage upon in high school or by distant family members or authority figures in their communities, I can say this: while we can't automatically attribute the bad behavior to that incident, we can't discount it either. It's not 100% that this is the source of the drinking and other behavior...but it's more likely than not AND the potential consequences of letting it go w/o dealing with it are life time.
Potential causes of drinking/panic attacks/emotional battle walls/other neg behavior, in decreasing order of likelihood:
1. Incident in high school (whether it was abuse or just a consensual but hidden relationship)
2. He's in the closet and struggling (be it that he's bi or really just gay and in denial)
3. Something else happened that drove him to drink. If he kept the HS "incident" secret so long, what else is there?
4. He's genetically alcoholic/dependent/mental issues.
5. He's just an ass/was just an ass.
Also, this bothers me A LOT: "My boyfriend and I have been together for 10 years. A few years ago, he informed me that he was molested in high school by a teacher and was in a sexual relationship with this man until he met me."
They were together for 10 years and he didn't tell her about "the HS thing" or the bi or gay until a few years ago? So he was in a relationship for at least 6 years where he was denying a major part of himself to her (i.e., an attraction to men and a life-changing relationship in HS). Jesus Christ on a Cracker. I'm surprised you went to the problem was the relationship isn't meeting her expectations.
No, Dan, the problem is, he was actively concealing a part of himself for a long time. It's not just that she''s not happy. It's that he kept a big part of himself from her. If I found out now, after 12 years, that this had happened to my husband and he hadn't told me, I'd seriously question whether our emotional and intellectual intimacy was what I always thought it to be or whether it was all just artifice.
Now, I'm not a fan of immediately disclosing and always disclosing....people have a right to keep things to themselves....but he did disclose. Way too late.
People, if you are carrying around this type of info (i.e., anything your partner might want to really know and/or consider a game changer), either let them know once you hit the comfy stage of a relationship (no more than 2-3 years in) OR keep it to yourself forever.
The "emotionally closed" thing bothers me as well. Men who are that closed off do not get better just because they meet the "right woman". What they do is they learn how to fake it. But the underlying issue is still there.
Quite frankly, this man has some type of damage. I don't know what it is. It's not going away by ignoring it. It's not going away by accepting the imperfection.
I think she needs to either get into counseling with him (and he needs individual counseling) or she should cut her losses and move on.
Just because you love someone does not mean you can make a go of it with him simply by lowering your expectations. If she does that, she will regret it.
Absent therapy for both and for him, I think this is a slow-motion train wreck. She should get off while she can...and while she's young enough to have a shot at what she wants.
More...
If there was ever a case for sitting down with a neutral 3rd party (therapist/friend/clergy) to talk out things, it's MM. If she just swallows this, it's going to lead to a break up.
I've seen this with friends, seen this with clients.
Also, having worked with a lot of kids who were taken advantage upon in high school or by distant family members or authority figures in their communities, I can say this: while we can't automatically attribute the bad behavior to that incident, we can't discount it either. It's not 100% that this is the source of the drinking and other behavior...but it's more likely than not AND the potential consequences of letting it go w/o dealing with it are life time.
Potential causes of drinking/panic attacks/emotional battle walls/other neg behavior, in decreasing order of likelihood:
1. Incident in high school (whether it was abuse or just a consensual but hidden relationship)
2. He's in the closet and struggling (be it that he's bi or really just gay and in denial)
3. Something else happened that drove him to drink. If he kept the HS "incident" secret so long, what else is there?
4. He's genetically alcoholic/dependent/mental issues.
5. He's just an ass/was just an ass.
Also, this bothers me A LOT: "My boyfriend and I have been together for 10 years. A few years ago, he informed me that he was molested in high school by a teacher and was in a sexual relationship with this man until he met me."
They were together for 10 years and he didn't tell her about "the HS thing" or the bi or gay until a few years ago? So he was in a relationship for at least 6 years where he was denying a major part of himself to her (i.e., an attraction to men and a life-changing relationship in HS). Jesus Christ on a Cracker. I'm surprised you went to the problem was the relationship isn't meeting her expectations.
No, Dan, the problem is, he was actively concealing a part of himself for a long time. It's not just that she''s not happy. It's that he kept a big part of himself from her. If I found out now, after 12 years, that this had happened to my husband and he hadn't told me, I'd seriously question whether our emotional and intellectual intimacy was what I always thought it to be or whether it was all just artifice.
Now, I'm not a fan of immediately disclosing and always disclosing....people have a right to keep things to themselves....but he did disclose. Way too late.
People, if you are carrying around this type of info (i.e., anything your partner might want to really know and/or consider a game changer), either let them know once you hit the comfy stage of a relationship (no more than 2-3 years in) OR keep it to yourself forever.
The "emotionally closed" thing bothers me as well. Men who are that closed off do not get better just because they meet the "right woman". What they do is they learn how to fake it. But the underlying issue is still there.
Quite frankly, this man has some type of damage. I don't know what it is. It's not going away by ignoring it. It's not going away by accepting the imperfection.
I think she needs to either get into counseling with him (and he needs individual counseling) or she should cut her losses and move on.
Just because you love someone does not mean you can make a go of it with him simply by lowering your expectations. If she does that, she will regret it.
Absent therapy for both and for him, I think this is a slow-motion train wreck. She should get off while she can...and while she's young enough to have a shot at what she wants.
39
You know Dan, to me the Anthony Weiner thing wasn't at all about the stray dick pics. And his resignation wasn't about some kind of sexual hypocracy thing. It was the totally immature and weird way he went around for a whole weekend LYING ABOUT IT.
I mean, I'm ignoring that it was probably a douchy thing to do to his pregnant wife. Maybe they have an arrangement. Maybe she's pissed as hell. That's their business. I'm also ignoring the obviously bad judgment he exercised in sending the picture, out of the blue, to a JOURNALISM STUDENT. I mean, the stupid, it burns.
But he lied about it to the national media. Which is exactly the wrong way to beat a scandal like this. In the end, I think that's what sealed his fate.
I mean, how can you trust the guy now? And if he gets this shaken about a couple of dick pics, god forbid he ever be put in a business with sensitive national security information.
I mean, I'm ignoring that it was probably a douchy thing to do to his pregnant wife. Maybe they have an arrangement. Maybe she's pissed as hell. That's their business. I'm also ignoring the obviously bad judgment he exercised in sending the picture, out of the blue, to a JOURNALISM STUDENT. I mean, the stupid, it burns.
But he lied about it to the national media. Which is exactly the wrong way to beat a scandal like this. In the end, I think that's what sealed his fate.
I mean, how can you trust the guy now? And if he gets this shaken about a couple of dick pics, god forbid he ever be put in a business with sensitive national security information.
40
"Dear Dan, I live below this couple. There's loud banging, screaming, crying, and the sound of stuff breaking. The woman comes out with sunglasses and long-sleeved turtlenecks in summer. Should I be concerned?"
"Well, maybe she's very fashion-conscious and gets chills. You should back off Nancy Drew. It's none of your business and you need to worry more about your pending decision to move and live with it or stay and STFU."
A trusted authority figure exploited her boyfriend in high school, and now he has a half dozen behavior / mental problems involving relationships and commitments. I think it's universally, 100% safe to tell this girl that she and her boyfriend NEED COUPLES COUNSELING RIGHT NOW. She needs counseling to figure out why she's latching onto this guy so hard when he's behaving disinterested, and he needs counseling, period.
Reading Dan's response was liking watching someone from a homeless shelter close the door in a needy man's face while yelling through the glass "TRY GETTING A JOB". Seriously, aren't you supposed to be helping people when you can, and directing them to better help when you can't? This is fucking ridiculous.
"Well, maybe she's very fashion-conscious and gets chills. You should back off Nancy Drew. It's none of your business and you need to worry more about your pending decision to move and live with it or stay and STFU."
A trusted authority figure exploited her boyfriend in high school, and now he has a half dozen behavior / mental problems involving relationships and commitments. I think it's universally, 100% safe to tell this girl that she and her boyfriend NEED COUPLES COUNSELING RIGHT NOW. She needs counseling to figure out why she's latching onto this guy so hard when he's behaving disinterested, and he needs counseling, period.
Reading Dan's response was liking watching someone from a homeless shelter close the door in a needy man's face while yelling through the glass "TRY GETTING A JOB". Seriously, aren't you supposed to be helping people when you can, and directing them to better help when you can't? This is fucking ridiculous.
41
re: Suzy @37: my understanding is that the foundation of respect is validating someone's story.
You seem to be saying that the girlfriend doesn't respect her boyfriend, and I'm not disagreeing with that.
What I'm saying is that if someone doesn't know your story, and you withhold it from them, you've made it impossible for them to respect you.
Sloggers can't refuse to give MM any verbs to act on, then pat themselves on the back for providing any.
You seem to be saying that the girlfriend doesn't respect her boyfriend, and I'm not disagreeing with that.
What I'm saying is that if someone doesn't know your story, and you withhold it from them, you've made it impossible for them to respect you.
Sloggers can't refuse to give MM any verbs to act on, then pat themselves on the back for providing any.
42
MM, listen to what you are saying to him, "You need to feel the way I tell you to feel about an experience you had before I even knew you." Give up, it's not going to happen.
Stop worrying about him and go find someone who wants the same things you do!
Stop worrying about him and go find someone who wants the same things you do!
43
The D party wanted Weiner gone since the first moment he uttered the words "single payer". The cock shot was just the smoking gun, as it were. Recent history shows that politicians who help enhance the economic inequality of the rich, powerful and well-connected generally find their youthful indiscretions kept quieter.
44
Well of course Santorum is lying; this happens all the time. The latest is brain-dead David Tyree, who says the legalization of gay marriage will "lead to anarchy" while maintaining he has gay friends, respects them, and believes they should have the same rights as straights.
Uh-huh.
Uh-huh.
45
@40: I think the subtext of Dan's reply is that the relationship sounds irreparably toxic and damaged, and that her best option is to get out. Telling her "you two should go to counseling" would just play into the whole tragic, I-can-fix-this mentality.
Frankly, I'm glad Dan's taking a stand against the idea that people who have exploitative or abusive sexual experiences are defined by those experiences. They're not, and I know a lot of people who HAVE been abused who resent the condescending pigeonholing that goes on.
I also know a lot of people who use past abuse as an excuse for behaving badly, abusively, or destructively themselves, and that needs to stop too. Lots of shitty things happen in life, and someone whose shitty experiences involve genitals doesn't have greater moral standing than someone who merely got the shit beaten out of them.
Frankly, I'm glad Dan's taking a stand against the idea that people who have exploitative or abusive sexual experiences are defined by those experiences. They're not, and I know a lot of people who HAVE been abused who resent the condescending pigeonholing that goes on.
I also know a lot of people who use past abuse as an excuse for behaving badly, abusively, or destructively themselves, and that needs to stop too. Lots of shitty things happen in life, and someone whose shitty experiences involve genitals doesn't have greater moral standing than someone who merely got the shit beaten out of them.
46
Of course Rick Santorum knows gay people. Any one as homophobic as Santorum is clearly a closet case and we all ought to be saying so. There is no way that he will not be outed eventually, and any of his gay 'friends' that are reading this should consider it their ethical duty to do so as soon as possible.
47
@43: I'm not a constituent of Weiner, but I live pretty close to his district. I loved what he was doing in Congress. When the photo first came out, I believed him; I despise Breitbart and thought "here comes another right-wing smear."
And, if he had owned up to it, or had at least not gone around flat-out denying it, I would still stand by him.
But he didn't. The way he handled it has really made me doubt his maturity and ability to handle tough personal situations and stress. If this had just been a sex scandal, I think Dan would be right in claiming "that the prudes and the hypocrits-- in Congress and the media-- carried the day."
It's a damn shame that someone who was really doing a lot of good had such a meltdown. I hope he can overcome this in the future; I'd like to see him back in public service. But I'm not sure that I could ever trust him again.
And, if he had owned up to it, or had at least not gone around flat-out denying it, I would still stand by him.
But he didn't. The way he handled it has really made me doubt his maturity and ability to handle tough personal situations and stress. If this had just been a sex scandal, I think Dan would be right in claiming "that the prudes and the hypocrits-- in Congress and the media-- carried the day."
It's a damn shame that someone who was really doing a lot of good had such a meltdown. I hope he can overcome this in the future; I'd like to see him back in public service. But I'm not sure that I could ever trust him again.
48
Ms Cute - Well, I doubt I'll ever unretire, but it's useful to keep track of what would likely be expected if I did. Mr Savage seemed a bit blase about it. Personally, I wouldn't define anything as a standard feature (not even cupholders) and have everything negotiated. But then I'd never become intimate with anyone practised in sales, so that I shouldn't have to worry about being negotiated into dreading sex instead of craving it.
50
Am I the only one who wants santorum to become the republican nominee for president just so I can mock him to my hearts content.
51
Regarding WTFLOL, I concur that it'd be best not to appear in porn or in videos on Xtube in which he's identifiable.
A Google search is a standard part of any employer's background check these days, and at some point, a video that shows WTFLOL ramming another guy will probably come back to haunt him.
And I would say that it theoretically could ruin a career in medicine, especially if he's planning on any area of medicine that involves dealing with children or examining people's nether regions.
A Google search is a standard part of any employer's background check these days, and at some point, a video that shows WTFLOL ramming another guy will probably come back to haunt him.
And I would say that it theoretically could ruin a career in medicine, especially if he's planning on any area of medicine that involves dealing with children or examining people's nether regions.
53
@45: Hear, hear! Anyone who's been sexually abused and says they are past it is automatically told they are repressing their feelings, that they need to "work through it" or some such nonsense. It's basically like telling someone that they SHOULD feel damaged by it. Maybe they're just a normal person who went through a shitty thing. And maybe the last thing they want to do is relive it all just so you can feel like you "helped" them through something.
He doesn't love you, MM, not the way you love him. And he never will. Sorry, but that's how it is. And yes, it does make you a little pathetic, that he's made this clear in so many ways, and you stay with him. But you don't have to STAY pathetic. You can leave. If you think you can stay friends with him, do so. If not, don't. But move on to a man who does want marriage and kids with you. Put Beyonce's "Single Ladies" on repeat, pack your shit up, and DTMFA.
He doesn't love you, MM, not the way you love him. And he never will. Sorry, but that's how it is. And yes, it does make you a little pathetic, that he's made this clear in so many ways, and you stay with him. But you don't have to STAY pathetic. You can leave. If you think you can stay friends with him, do so. If not, don't. But move on to a man who does want marriage and kids with you. Put Beyonce's "Single Ladies" on repeat, pack your shit up, and DTMFA.
54
@36: He's ignorant about width because he thinks the width is enough to permanently injure or stretch a girl out.
@30: Anyone can be fisted... I understand you're nervous about it, or not interested, which is fine, but with enough time and relaxation it can be done. And it's not actually putting a fist in. Fisting really needs to be renamed so it sounds less extreme; on the other hand, as suggested, maybe that is the kink for some people (weird).
@37: "Mike Leung" is a well-known Savage Love troll... don't even try.
@30: Anyone can be fisted... I understand you're nervous about it, or not interested, which is fine, but with enough time and relaxation it can be done. And it's not actually putting a fist in. Fisting really needs to be renamed so it sounds less extreme; on the other hand, as suggested, maybe that is the kink for some people (weird).
@37: "Mike Leung" is a well-known Savage Love troll... don't even try.
55
MM,
You're pathetic because you're delusional. You think he's suffered enormous abuse. He liked it. He's much more gay than straight. He has no passionate interest in you. You think you can make some political statement with him. This is just another gay-lonesome girl relationship. He'll drop you like a bag of coal when he finds the right guy.
Look for a guy who loves you, and love him back.
You're pathetic because you're delusional. You think he's suffered enormous abuse. He liked it. He's much more gay than straight. He has no passionate interest in you. You think you can make some political statement with him. This is just another gay-lonesome girl relationship. He'll drop you like a bag of coal when he finds the right guy.
Look for a guy who loves you, and love him back.
57
Yes to 45 & 53. Dan could have told them to get counseling, and then she'd still be on this merry-go-round of thinking she can fix a guy who doesn't even seem right for her, long-term. He's not the one writing for advice here, she is, so Dan's advice wisely takes that into account.
I too am thrilled to see someone responding to a story about molestation without insisting on how someone needs to feel about it or respond to it. People who survive such experiences are all over the map in terms of reactions and feelings.
I'd add that some people are ready to talk about it the next day, and others need several years, EVEN when they are in a trusting, committed relationship. On this point I disagree with 38. If someone finally owns up to a major secret they couldn't admit before, it doesn't undermine the intimacy and trust you had--indeed, it shows that your relationship is strong enough to handle these old wounds. If you've kept a major secret like that for years, it doesn't necessarily pop out shortly after you find someone you can trust. There's no statute of limitations on when you can confide something in your dear ones.
I too am thrilled to see someone responding to a story about molestation without insisting on how someone needs to feel about it or respond to it. People who survive such experiences are all over the map in terms of reactions and feelings.
I'd add that some people are ready to talk about it the next day, and others need several years, EVEN when they are in a trusting, committed relationship. On this point I disagree with 38. If someone finally owns up to a major secret they couldn't admit before, it doesn't undermine the intimacy and trust you had--indeed, it shows that your relationship is strong enough to handle these old wounds. If you've kept a major secret like that for years, it doesn't necessarily pop out shortly after you find someone you can trust. There's no statute of limitations on when you can confide something in your dear ones.
59
@57 Suzy
Thank you. Some of us needed more than 10 years to get there, just for ourselves. Life doesn't keep to a schedule.
Thank you. Some of us needed more than 10 years to get there, just for ourselves. Life doesn't keep to a schedule.
60
re: BlackRose@54: I'm not really asking anyone to take my word for anything. Hate wouldn't be hate without someone insisting something.
My understanding is that while not everyone baffled is a victim, all victims are baffled. MM's boyfriend gave an account of how he was molested, and heaven-fucking-forbid her own peace-of-mind needs that story reconciled with how he isn't the baffled person he claims he isn't. Jesus.
My understanding is that while not everyone baffled is a victim, all victims are baffled. MM's boyfriend gave an account of how he was molested, and heaven-fucking-forbid her own peace-of-mind needs that story reconciled with how he isn't the baffled person he claims he isn't. Jesus.
61
I guess anyone CAN be fisted. But whether or not it can be done without trauma and/or uncontrollable screaming and crying is another matter.
We're all built a little differently.
We're all built a little differently.
62
@32 it was actually blackrose's comment of it being not a big deal that I was a little put off by. You saying it doesn't need to be on everyone's repetoire was spot on, for me.
65
All of us, every day, have to do risk/benefit analyses just to walk around. Look at WTFLOL. He'd like to do the porn film. He'd like to be a doctor. (What's the burgeoning field?) He has to weigh how much fun the film would be against how it might hurt his career. He has to take into account his chances of being recognized. There are many variables: his exact specialty, what he'd be doing in the film, how hot he finds the idea, people's attitudes towards his being gay, etc.
Now look at Weiner. He doesn't seem to have done that analysis well. He wanted to send the pix, didn't seem to think he'd get caught, didn't seem to know what would happen when he did. Or maybe he did know and thought the risk was worth it. I agree that Weiner shouldn't have had to step down over something I think is trivial, but I do wonder at someone like him making complex decisions about law, justice, and cause and effect. He just doesn't strike me as very bright.
Now look at Weiner. He doesn't seem to have done that analysis well. He wanted to send the pix, didn't seem to think he'd get caught, didn't seem to know what would happen when he did. Or maybe he did know and thought the risk was worth it. I agree that Weiner shouldn't have had to step down over something I think is trivial, but I do wonder at someone like him making complex decisions about law, justice, and cause and effect. He just doesn't strike me as very bright.
66
"The openly gay Lemon, oddly enough, did not demand names and contact information for these gay friends."
What, you expect a journalist to ask followup questions and challenge a politician's claims? They don't do that anymore.
What, you expect a journalist to ask followup questions and challenge a politician's claims? They don't do that anymore.
67
I don't know that Weiner's stupidity about cock shots has anything to do with his ability to make complex decisions about law and justice. After all, Bill Clinton is a Rhodes scholar, but he still managed to be stupid about sex. I think a smart person will find it much easier to apply their intelligence to political decisions than to apply it to sexual ones- usually hormones don't get mixed up in actual politics.
68
@65 The burgeoning field is probably related to either elder care or neurological disorders. Just a wild guess.
69
Your obsession with Santorum is making you look rather pathetic. You are isolating yourself and your dwindling legion of fans with your hate. Don't be such a fuck wad.
70
the cletus on the simpsons is smarter...
@67 though Clinton is a smart guy and I'd probably vote for him if I was American and he were running... you can't say that a persons ability to be faithful to his pregnant wife doesn't speak a little bit to his integrity which IS a relevant attribute in politics.
People here have speculated as to him having an open relationship and etc etc etc. If so, more power to him.
And P.S. sex is everywhere, it doesn't magically effect only your personal life.
@67 though Clinton is a smart guy and I'd probably vote for him if I was American and he were running... you can't say that a persons ability to be faithful to his pregnant wife doesn't speak a little bit to his integrity which IS a relevant attribute in politics.
People here have speculated as to him having an open relationship and etc etc etc. If so, more power to him.
And P.S. sex is everywhere, it doesn't magically effect only your personal life.
71
@61, fisting is actually a recommended technique in Lamaze classes for preparing a woman for vaginal delivery. They call it "perineal massage." I don't mean to claim that fisting is trivial, but women are certainly built to handle more than a hand in there.
72
@ ABW (#38) i enjoyed your comments and agree with everything you've said.
@ fisting - i've never had an entire fist inserted into my vagina, however, i can attest to the fact that having 2 fingers inserted and 'waved' from side to side is an incredibly pleasurable scenario.
I think the 'gaping hole' theory came from porn that, if you look for it, does show some women with huge gaping holes for vaginas, very horrible to look at, being fisted by multiple men at the same time. In that porn flick i saw, the woman's vagina stayed a big gaping hole even after the men removed their fists, and it was disgusting. This is enough to turn a fist-virgin off it forever.
@ fisting - i've never had an entire fist inserted into my vagina, however, i can attest to the fact that having 2 fingers inserted and 'waved' from side to side is an incredibly pleasurable scenario.
I think the 'gaping hole' theory came from porn that, if you look for it, does show some women with huge gaping holes for vaginas, very horrible to look at, being fisted by multiple men at the same time. In that porn flick i saw, the woman's vagina stayed a big gaping hole even after the men removed their fists, and it was disgusting. This is enough to turn a fist-virgin off it forever.
73
FIST: I enjoy fisting on a fairly regular basis (and my boyfriend has pretty sizeable mitts) and I can still crack walnuts with that shit. A vagina is designed to crank a whole freaking human being out of it. That's not guaranteeing she'll be down, it's a pretty intense sensation and not everybody likes it, but you're not going to be able to park a HumVee in there afterwards.
74
My issue with Weiner is that he is a complete idiot. Whether or not it should be a big deal to Tweet pictures of yourself in your underwear to people, it is. He's got to know that. So his big move is using his public Twitter to do so? Really?
Also, unless I'm mistaken, he wasn't in any kind of relationship with these women. They were just following him. They didn't want his semi-nudes, he just sent them, which is creepy, if nothing else.
Finally, he was obviously caught. There was no question that he'd been found out. There's a point where you can say that it wasn't you, but when he was confronted, he was obviously past that point. The only logical thing to do at that point is to confess, because there is no way that you can get out of it through denial. Being stupid and arrogant enough to think that he could deny it and no one would find out the truth is just the clincher for me.
On an unrelated note, while I'm pretty sure that any woman in the world CAN be fisted, isn't it possible that not every woman in the world ENJOYS being fisted?
Also, unless I'm mistaken, he wasn't in any kind of relationship with these women. They were just following him. They didn't want his semi-nudes, he just sent them, which is creepy, if nothing else.
Finally, he was obviously caught. There was no question that he'd been found out. There's a point where you can say that it wasn't you, but when he was confronted, he was obviously past that point. The only logical thing to do at that point is to confess, because there is no way that you can get out of it through denial. Being stupid and arrogant enough to think that he could deny it and no one would find out the truth is just the clincher for me.
On an unrelated note, while I'm pretty sure that any woman in the world CAN be fisted, isn't it possible that not every woman in the world ENJOYS being fisted?
75
I'm with Mydriasis: no fisting for me, thanks! My boyfriend's penis is even uncomfortably large for me (yes, even when we go slowly and use lube). Further, I don't think I'd be able to accommodate a fist even if I wanted to.
Yes, yes, childbirth blah blah blah. But the fact that C-sections exist would indicate that not all women can pass a baby through their vagina. Most vaginae can surely expand a great deal, yes; but I opinine that some cannot.
...And then there's my boyfriend, whose hips are too small to accommodate my (large-ish) hand. I had four fingers and the tip of my thumb in his ass but couldn't push in any further without the knuckles at the base of my fingers catching on his pelvic bones. It's too bad because we both really loved the sensation of having so much of my hand inside him.
Yes, yes, childbirth blah blah blah. But the fact that C-sections exist would indicate that not all women can pass a baby through their vagina. Most vaginae can surely expand a great deal, yes; but I opinine that some cannot.
...And then there's my boyfriend, whose hips are too small to accommodate my (large-ish) hand. I had four fingers and the tip of my thumb in his ass but couldn't push in any further without the knuckles at the base of my fingers catching on his pelvic bones. It's too bad because we both really loved the sensation of having so much of my hand inside him.
77
MM, do this poor guy a favour and dump him already.
If someone was telling me that a previous relationship I was okay with and maybe even enjoyed was horrible and abusive and that I needed to feel angry and guilty and resentful about it, and blaming everything that I did that they disliked on the fact of the relationship, I'd have panic attacks too, and I sure wouldn't feel like fucking them, marrying, or having kids with them.
There are a lot of people who had sex with older adults in their teens who don't feel bad about it. I know, I'm one of them. Teachers shouldn't sleep with their students because when things go wrong, and they usually do, the results are often traumatic--but it's a risk, not a certainty, and some of the risk does derive from the fact that such relationships have to be conducted in secret, and any attempt on the part of the younger person to get help working things out exposes the older person to serious legal and social and financial consequences, so younger people who love their partners often don't ask for any help when they need it.
Anyhow, there may be other reasons why he drinks and you haven't even said how much he drinks so I only know it's a problem for you, not for him.
You are co-dependent. You want to "heal his wounds" even when he doesn't think he's wounded. You want to be in a position of power in this relationship and in a dual relationship (healer/lover) with this person. If you did get what you wanted, it would be just as bad for him as what might have happened with his teacher, because he'd be emotionally dependent on you as a healer and in a sexual relationship with you at the same time. I don't know why you want to be in the role of martyr or healer in a relationship, but you need to be exploring that, not his problems, or you're going to keep hooking up with people who have problems you want to fix, which will be way more boring and annoying and draining than admitting that your real problem is your own issues. Or you'll have kids and push them into trouble so you can rescue them.
I'm not assuming you're male or female (tbh I was pretty sure you were a guy, men can get married and have kids together in many civilised parts of the world) but you remind me of the Nice Guy (tm) who "befriends" a girl he doesn't think he can have who has problems and then offers her "emotional support" only to call her a dumb bitch who likes to be abused when this doesn't make her stop dating men who may be assholes, but at least are honest about what they want, and fall madly in love with them.
It's all about being the superior partner. Compared to that, dating a horny teenager because he's hot and letting him go when he's ready to move on is at least innocent in intention.
Flame away.
More...
If someone was telling me that a previous relationship I was okay with and maybe even enjoyed was horrible and abusive and that I needed to feel angry and guilty and resentful about it, and blaming everything that I did that they disliked on the fact of the relationship, I'd have panic attacks too, and I sure wouldn't feel like fucking them, marrying, or having kids with them.
There are a lot of people who had sex with older adults in their teens who don't feel bad about it. I know, I'm one of them. Teachers shouldn't sleep with their students because when things go wrong, and they usually do, the results are often traumatic--but it's a risk, not a certainty, and some of the risk does derive from the fact that such relationships have to be conducted in secret, and any attempt on the part of the younger person to get help working things out exposes the older person to serious legal and social and financial consequences, so younger people who love their partners often don't ask for any help when they need it.
Anyhow, there may be other reasons why he drinks and you haven't even said how much he drinks so I only know it's a problem for you, not for him.
You are co-dependent. You want to "heal his wounds" even when he doesn't think he's wounded. You want to be in a position of power in this relationship and in a dual relationship (healer/lover) with this person. If you did get what you wanted, it would be just as bad for him as what might have happened with his teacher, because he'd be emotionally dependent on you as a healer and in a sexual relationship with you at the same time. I don't know why you want to be in the role of martyr or healer in a relationship, but you need to be exploring that, not his problems, or you're going to keep hooking up with people who have problems you want to fix, which will be way more boring and annoying and draining than admitting that your real problem is your own issues. Or you'll have kids and push them into trouble so you can rescue them.
I'm not assuming you're male or female (tbh I was pretty sure you were a guy, men can get married and have kids together in many civilised parts of the world) but you remind me of the Nice Guy (tm) who "befriends" a girl he doesn't think he can have who has problems and then offers her "emotional support" only to call her a dumb bitch who likes to be abused when this doesn't make her stop dating men who may be assholes, but at least are honest about what they want, and fall madly in love with them.
It's all about being the superior partner. Compared to that, dating a horny teenager because he's hot and letting him go when he's ready to move on is at least innocent in intention.
Flame away.
78
MM, do this poor guy a favour and dump him already.
If someone was telling me that a previous relationship I was okay with and maybe even enjoyed was horrible and abusive and that I needed to feel angry and guilty and resentful about it, and blaming everything that I did that they disliked on the fact of the relationship, I'd have panic attacks too, and I sure wouldn't feel like fucking them, marrying, or having kids with them.
There are a lot of people who had sex with older adults in their teens who don't feel bad about it. I know, I'm one of them. Teachers shouldn't sleep with their students because when things go wrong, and they usually do, the results are often traumatic--but it's a risk, not a certainty, and some of the risk does derive from the fact that such relationships have to be conducted in secret, and any attempt on the part of the younger person to get help working things out exposes the older person to serious legal and social and financial consequences, so younger people who love their partners often don't ask for any help when they need it.
Anyhow, there may be other reasons why he drinks and you haven't even said how much he drinks so I only know it's a problem for you, not for him.
You are co-dependent. You want to "heal his wounds" even when he doesn't think he's wounded. You want to be in a position of power in this relationship and in a dual relationship (healer/lover) with this person. If you did get what you wanted, it would be just as bad for him as what might have happened with his teacher, because he'd be emotionally dependent on you as a healer and in a sexual relationship with you at the same time. I don't know why you want to be in the role of martyr or healer in a relationship, but you need to be exploring that, not his problems, or you're going to keep hooking up with people who have problems you want to fix, which will be way more boring and annoying and draining than admitting that your real problem is your own issues. Or you'll have kids and push them into trouble so you can rescue them.
I'm not assuming you're male or female (tbh I was pretty sure you were a guy, men can get married and have kids together in many civilised parts of the world) but you remind me of the Nice Guy (tm) who "befriends" a girl he doesn't think he can have who has problems and then offers her "emotional support" only to call her a dumb bitch who likes to be abused when this doesn't make her stop dating men who may be assholes, but at least are honest about what they want, and fall madly in love with them.
It's all about being the superior partner. Compared to that, dating a horny teenager because he's hot and letting him go when he's ready to move on is at least innocent in intention.
Flame away.
More...
If someone was telling me that a previous relationship I was okay with and maybe even enjoyed was horrible and abusive and that I needed to feel angry and guilty and resentful about it, and blaming everything that I did that they disliked on the fact of the relationship, I'd have panic attacks too, and I sure wouldn't feel like fucking them, marrying, or having kids with them.
There are a lot of people who had sex with older adults in their teens who don't feel bad about it. I know, I'm one of them. Teachers shouldn't sleep with their students because when things go wrong, and they usually do, the results are often traumatic--but it's a risk, not a certainty, and some of the risk does derive from the fact that such relationships have to be conducted in secret, and any attempt on the part of the younger person to get help working things out exposes the older person to serious legal and social and financial consequences, so younger people who love their partners often don't ask for any help when they need it.
Anyhow, there may be other reasons why he drinks and you haven't even said how much he drinks so I only know it's a problem for you, not for him.
You are co-dependent. You want to "heal his wounds" even when he doesn't think he's wounded. You want to be in a position of power in this relationship and in a dual relationship (healer/lover) with this person. If you did get what you wanted, it would be just as bad for him as what might have happened with his teacher, because he'd be emotionally dependent on you as a healer and in a sexual relationship with you at the same time. I don't know why you want to be in the role of martyr or healer in a relationship, but you need to be exploring that, not his problems, or you're going to keep hooking up with people who have problems you want to fix, which will be way more boring and annoying and draining than admitting that your real problem is your own issues. Or you'll have kids and push them into trouble so you can rescue them.
I'm not assuming you're male or female (tbh I was pretty sure you were a guy, men can get married and have kids together in many civilised parts of the world) but you remind me of the Nice Guy (tm) who "befriends" a girl he doesn't think he can have who has problems and then offers her "emotional support" only to call her a dumb bitch who likes to be abused when this doesn't make her stop dating men who may be assholes, but at least are honest about what they want, and fall madly in love with them.
It's all about being the superior partner. Compared to that, dating a horny teenager because he's hot and letting him go when he's ready to move on is at least innocent in intention.
Flame away.
79
My Driasis,
"You can't say that a persons ability to be faithful to his pregnant wife doesn't speak a little bit to his integrity which IS a relevant attribute in politics."
I can say it and will, or more directly, "marital fidelity is 100% irrelevant to a leader's ability."
Let's turn this around-- power (similar gage is money) in men makes panties drop. If you look at the great leaders in history, nearly all were philanderers. Why should we deny ourselves such great leaders?
"You can't say that a persons ability to be faithful to his pregnant wife doesn't speak a little bit to his integrity which IS a relevant attribute in politics."
I can say it and will, or more directly, "marital fidelity is 100% irrelevant to a leader's ability."
Let's turn this around-- power (similar gage is money) in men makes panties drop. If you look at the great leaders in history, nearly all were philanderers. Why should we deny ourselves such great leaders?
81
If other people want to fist that is fine, but there are some women, me included that are not set up for it. I can feel when a guy changes from fingering me with one finger to two and three hurts. No, I am not a virgin however, I do have a small vagina and will never sleep with a guy with a dick over 7 inches (6.5 starts to hurt) so there is no way a guy's arm is going in there! I think if someone stuck there fist in me I would be permanently altered! So not everyone is set up for fisting so maybe this guys gf is one of them!
82
@71 and 73
the idea that women are "designed" to fit babies through their vaginas is a myth based on a poor understanding of evolution. Childbirth is a classic example of two competing (opposing) selective pressures: the pressure to be bipedal (smaller hips/birth canal) and the pressure to pass through large headed children (larger hips/birth canal) the balance that nature struck was to have human babies be born as premature as possible (and have as much head growth postnatal as possible) and to have women die in childbirth 25% of the time. Evolution was perfectly happy with this balance. 25% of women were not.
The fact that modern medicine allows most women to have children without you know... dying, allows women in the first world to believe the myth that "A vagina is designed to crank a whole freaking human being out of it.". A vagina wasn't "designed" at all. Ask your doc. :p
Aaaand Hunter.
Like I said, I'm a bit ambivilant towards your viewpoint. I'm not talking about marital fidelity specifically (like I said, if they're open I'm down with that) but it is one of MANY MANY things that speak to a person's character. For example, if he shoplifted, I wouldn't be down with that either - even if it is a petty, trivial thing, unrelated to his ability to make complex political decisions. I think any time someone makes a moral transgression it suggests something about... their tendency to make moral transgressions.
Show me data that proves sexual ethics are magically discrete from other ethics and I'll agree with you.... but I'm pretty sure our understanding of humans suggests that it's not.
Let me make a specific example. If politician X ranks sex above his own principals and I work for a specific lobby... why wouldn't I just put on something slutty and persuade him to cast his vote in the way that I want?
Personally I'd rather vote for someone who acts on their principals and doesn't sell them out for sex (or money! which is also a big concern). And if someone will sell out the person they love for sex, why would they not sell out their constituents?
More...
the idea that women are "designed" to fit babies through their vaginas is a myth based on a poor understanding of evolution. Childbirth is a classic example of two competing (opposing) selective pressures: the pressure to be bipedal (smaller hips/birth canal) and the pressure to pass through large headed children (larger hips/birth canal) the balance that nature struck was to have human babies be born as premature as possible (and have as much head growth postnatal as possible) and to have women die in childbirth 25% of the time. Evolution was perfectly happy with this balance. 25% of women were not.
The fact that modern medicine allows most women to have children without you know... dying, allows women in the first world to believe the myth that "A vagina is designed to crank a whole freaking human being out of it.". A vagina wasn't "designed" at all. Ask your doc. :p
Aaaand Hunter.
Like I said, I'm a bit ambivilant towards your viewpoint. I'm not talking about marital fidelity specifically (like I said, if they're open I'm down with that) but it is one of MANY MANY things that speak to a person's character. For example, if he shoplifted, I wouldn't be down with that either - even if it is a petty, trivial thing, unrelated to his ability to make complex political decisions. I think any time someone makes a moral transgression it suggests something about... their tendency to make moral transgressions.
Show me data that proves sexual ethics are magically discrete from other ethics and I'll agree with you.... but I'm pretty sure our understanding of humans suggests that it's not.
Let me make a specific example. If politician X ranks sex above his own principals and I work for a specific lobby... why wouldn't I just put on something slutty and persuade him to cast his vote in the way that I want?
Personally I'd rather vote for someone who acts on their principals and doesn't sell them out for sex (or money! which is also a big concern). And if someone will sell out the person they love for sex, why would they not sell out their constituents?
83
Maybe FIST should stop and think... a woman can squat an infant, which is larger than the average fist, out - do you see mothers as "ruined"? How about Mormon mothers? I mean, hell, *they* can squeeze out ten or fifteen of the little buggers in as many years, and clearly they are still getting some.
84
@82: Thanks for that info... that 25% figure really is amazing. Why is there selection pressure to be bipedal? What's the advantage of smaller hips?
I agree with you about the ethical issues: forget about sex, we're talking about the willingness to keep a promise, which is obviously relevant to whether or not we'd want someone to represent us.
@83: Childbirth really is a different situation: as well as the 25% death rate in the absence of modern medicine, the body has months to prepare itself and there are all sorts of hormonal and physical changes that occur. I don't think you can compare childbirth to a sex act as childbirth is an unusual biological situation that needs the right conditions to occur.
I agree with you about the ethical issues: forget about sex, we're talking about the willingness to keep a promise, which is obviously relevant to whether or not we'd want someone to represent us.
@83: Childbirth really is a different situation: as well as the 25% death rate in the absence of modern medicine, the body has months to prepare itself and there are all sorts of hormonal and physical changes that occur. I don't think you can compare childbirth to a sex act as childbirth is an unusual biological situation that needs the right conditions to occur.
85
being bipedal is rad. It frees up your hands to do things like use tools.
But I'm not an evolution expert so I'm not actually sure about the details of that evolutionary shift. In terms of smaller hips... again, not an expert at all, but I'd imagine it just has to do with the best way for the legs to articulate in order to better support all of your weight? Kind of just taking a guess there. Maybe when I'm further along in my education I can give a better answer. :)
And thanks! I'm not one for petty moralizing. I mean, if he were single and wanted to whore around I would be totally okay with it, but I think you're spot on. It's a promise.
But I'm not an evolution expert so I'm not actually sure about the details of that evolutionary shift. In terms of smaller hips... again, not an expert at all, but I'd imagine it just has to do with the best way for the legs to articulate in order to better support all of your weight? Kind of just taking a guess there. Maybe when I'm further along in my education I can give a better answer. :)
And thanks! I'm not one for petty moralizing. I mean, if he were single and wanted to whore around I would be totally okay with it, but I think you're spot on. It's a promise.
86
Hey, I have a question for Dan.
I think the santorum name change was an amazing thing, and the spreadingsantorum.com website reminded me that RS is still spreading his own santorum far and wide. But I wonder why you keep posting about him on slog and mentioning him in the column. Why him specifically and why keep bringing it up?
I think the santorum name change was an amazing thing, and the spreadingsantorum.com website reminded me that RS is still spreading his own santorum far and wide. But I wonder why you keep posting about him on slog and mentioning him in the column. Why him specifically and why keep bringing it up?
88
Gaping orifices is right!!
First, an exposed Weiner, then a frothy, flip-flopping Santorum with a squirt of Lemon!
Talk about your dangerous Molotov cocktails!
First, an exposed Weiner, then a frothy, flip-flopping Santorum with a squirt of Lemon!
Talk about your dangerous Molotov cocktails!
89
Rick Santorum's former press secretary is gay. He adored Rick (Santorum) like a father and talking to him about it was sickening.
90
@71 That's what I thought of too. But i think a lot of people aren't familiar with how to do effective perineal massage to keep from tearing, or so many women wouldn't be needing stitches after childbirth. It's a shame that information isn't more out there, but it's difficult sometimes to explain to like say - your pregnant daughter, or even a close friend. They either get it or they think it's gross.
91
@82 But all congresspeople have sold out their constituents for money to some extent, via campaign contributions, if you're going to look at it that way. Why is it that taking millions from big oil or for-profit health insurance is routine for our elected representatives, but that tweeting sexy pics inspires condemnation and expulsion? Especially when you think about how much of a conflict of interest corporate campaign contributions are compared to tweeting sexy pics. People can talk about how cheating on one's pregnant wife is about character, but when politicians get away with so many other things of dubious character, I find that a little ridiculous.
Putting all that aside, I believe that it's up to a representative's constituents to decide whether or not their representative has too many character flaws. In my opinion, it's none of the rest of our business.
Putting all that aside, I believe that it's up to a representative's constituents to decide whether or not their representative has too many character flaws. In my opinion, it's none of the rest of our business.
92
I've just googled 'santorum' and been reading up on the scandals, Mother Jones has an article that quotes you Dan as saying "If Rick Santorum wants to make a $5 million donation to [the gay marriage group] Freedom to Marry, I will take it down" referring to SpreadingSantorum.com. I agree with your assumption that you won't hear from any legit gays who 'love' rick santorum, but I'm waiting to hear the bigger scandal, you know what they say about the bigger the homophobe... maybe #89 -or the press secretary, knows something?
http://tinyurl.com/fivepmcruise
Keep up the great blog Dan, and don't sell out for a mere 5 mil, make him tear up his pledge and publicly support dadt repeal.
http://tinyurl.com/fivepmcruise
Keep up the great blog Dan, and don't sell out for a mere 5 mil, make him tear up his pledge and publicly support dadt repeal.
94
'The stretched-out black hole of doom is a myth.'
That should probably be printed on a t-shirt. And if that guy's girlfriend finds out this is what he thinks about fisting, she may want to drop him now if she ever wants kids, before she's truly 'ruined.'
That should probably be printed on a t-shirt. And if that guy's girlfriend finds out this is what he thinks about fisting, she may want to drop him now if she ever wants kids, before she's truly 'ruined.'
96
@82:
I don't know where you're getting that figure, but it's waaaaay the hell off. Evolution is a brutal mistress, yes, but a maternal mortality rate of 25% would be utterly unsustainable.
According to the WHO, "where nothing is done to avert maternal death, 'natural' mortality is around 1000–1500 per 100,000 births, an estimate based on historical studies and data from contemporary religious groups who do not intervene in childbirth." That's a maternal mortality rate of 1% - 1.5%.
This is not to say, of course, that every single woman on the planet is capable of safely (let alone happily) accommodating a fist in her vagina. But let's face it: the vagina absolutely did evolve to spit out babies. The process isn't foolproof, yes, but no biological process is. Sometimes people get heart attacks or are born with heart defects; does this mean that the heart didn't evolve to pump blood?
I don't know where you're getting that figure, but it's waaaaay the hell off. Evolution is a brutal mistress, yes, but a maternal mortality rate of 25% would be utterly unsustainable.
According to the WHO, "where nothing is done to avert maternal death, 'natural' mortality is around 1000–1500 per 100,000 births, an estimate based on historical studies and data from contemporary religious groups who do not intervene in childbirth." That's a maternal mortality rate of 1% - 1.5%.
This is not to say, of course, that every single woman on the planet is capable of safely (let alone happily) accommodating a fist in her vagina. But let's face it: the vagina absolutely did evolve to spit out babies. The process isn't foolproof, yes, but no biological process is. Sometimes people get heart attacks or are born with heart defects; does this mean that the heart didn't evolve to pump blood?
97
Dan, I remember recently, you said something about loving cupcakes and cocks, and I was instantly reminded of something awesome a friend of mine made. Behold: The Cupcock!
http://www.etsy.com/listing/74840028/cup…
http://www.etsy.com/listing/74840028/cup…
98
Thank you, @96. Also, the bottleneck (so to speak) in childbirth is not the vagina, which is soft tissue, but the pelvis, which is bone. Totally separate issue.
99
P.S. I believe that 25% figure was the cumulative lifetime risk (not risk per birth) for European women a few centuries ago. This was a time/place where women had absurdly large numbers of children and gave birth in unsanitary conditions. Best estimates are that prehistoric women went 4-5 years between births, for a total of maybe 5 childbirths in a lifetime.
102
@30 & 81 - I don't understand comparing fisting to accommodating a large penis. At least for me, the problem with large penises is that they're banging into my cervix, over and over; if it were just a matter of putting the penis in once, slowly, that would be fine.
Am I missing part of the point of your comparison?
Am I missing part of the point of your comparison?
103
@91 so your argument is that we should not care about either instead of caring about both?
@96 et al I got it in class. if I still had that prof I'd ask about the figure but I don't. I imagine that maybe it is a lifetime risk? Point is: people were using 'a vagina is designed to spit out babies' to explain fisting which is spurious. Vaginas - and hearts! - weren't 'designed' at all. Also, the heart is not such a classic example of competing selective pressures whereas childbirth is.
@102, the lovely Erica
it's both! But I have personally find the discomfort of a large penis width-wise to be much more painful than the ocassional cervix-collision.
@96 et al I got it in class. if I still had that prof I'd ask about the figure but I don't. I imagine that maybe it is a lifetime risk? Point is: people were using 'a vagina is designed to spit out babies' to explain fisting which is spurious. Vaginas - and hearts! - weren't 'designed' at all. Also, the heart is not such a classic example of competing selective pressures whereas childbirth is.
@102, the lovely Erica
it's both! But I have personally find the discomfort of a large penis width-wise to be much more painful than the ocassional cervix-collision.
104
My Driasis,
Organs are very complex, purposeful devices. If you consider an organ as designed, you'll much more quickly understand it. There's no gain in ranting about this phraseology.
Organs are very complex, purposeful devices. If you consider an organ as designed, you'll much more quickly understand it. There's no gain in ranting about this phraseology.
107
@106 The last one said: "oh, dear, I seem to have started your period." Idiot.
@mydriasis - thanks for explaining! :-)
@mydriasis - thanks for explaining! :-)
108
Erica,
'The last one said: "oh, dear, I seem to have started your period." Idiot.'
It seems like he talked to you about it, however inanely, not the other way around. You said nothing, and this was at least the 2nd big cock that unsatisfactorily pounded your cervix. Strangely silent and passive. Maybe with some communication you and your temporary partners could have varied the angle, depth, or length of the strokes to something more satisfactory for you.
And it sounds like the length, not the girth was your issue, unlike what most women are concerned about with fisting.
'The last one said: "oh, dear, I seem to have started your period." Idiot.'
It seems like he talked to you about it, however inanely, not the other way around. You said nothing, and this was at least the 2nd big cock that unsatisfactorily pounded your cervix. Strangely silent and passive. Maybe with some communication you and your temporary partners could have varied the angle, depth, or length of the strokes to something more satisfactory for you.
And it sounds like the length, not the girth was your issue, unlike what most women are concerned about with fisting.
109
mydriasis, I had the same problem you did with my husband's wide penis. (Yeah, we were both virgins.) Having my first baby cured it. The doctor apologized for the episiotomy, but I knew she would have to cut me open to get the kid out. It healed up great, though, and sex is much more fun. (But I'd still say "no" to fisting.)
110
@104 like I said, 'designed' is a decent shorthand when it's a reasonable analogy but in cases like childbirth it's not. Like anything, using a simplification/mnuemonic/whatever is very useful most of the time but it falls apart when a more correct understanding is needed. Even 1 in 100 deaths (I'd be curious about that, but still) is quite a big "design" flaw. I wasn't "ranting" so much about the phrase but the content behind it.
@109 interesting perspective! Personally I don't know if I'll ever have children but if I do I can't imagine delivering naturally. (For more reasons than the one we've all been talking about).
@109 interesting perspective! Personally I don't know if I'll ever have children but if I do I can't imagine delivering naturally. (For more reasons than the one we've all been talking about).
111
On a recent podcast, a guy said he wanted to have his girlfriend in lingerie, and she said she would consider it if he complied to the male version. (this so makes me love his girlfriend) He then claims to not think there exists some kind erotic male undergarment and calls dan. I don't think he was being naive I think he was being douchie and wanted some kind of getaway from have to actually do something to get something. then dan saysduh ofcourse there is ...and points him to the most kinked up homoerotic undergear website ever.... kinky enough where the gf probs isnt gonna have to where lingerie.
113
My Diasis,
The childbirth portal is the most important function of the cunt. After these millions of years, it's clearly good enough. It doesn't have to be perfect, it's probably still improving.
The 2nd most important is keeping a cock around to protect and provide.
The childbirth portal is the most important function of the cunt. After these millions of years, it's clearly good enough. It doesn't have to be perfect, it's probably still improving.
The 2nd most important is keeping a cock around to protect and provide.
114
Yeah, you don't seem to be understanding what I'm talking about at all. The fact that you think it's still improving in this faculty shows that you really don't understand how evolution works at all. If anything, it's probably getting worse.
116
*sigh*
Okay, things don't just 'evolve to get better'. That is a common misconception and the only logic I can imagine leading to your "it's probably still improving" statement.
Things evolve in a certain direction because there is a selective pressure to do so. In the case of childbirth there was competing selective pressures in opposite directions, and a balance was struck (see above). If there was a unidirectional selective pressure acting alone (the kind of situation that justifies a 'design' analogy) then yes, there might be continuing improvement, however, this is not the case.
If anything there is a less of a selective pressure to have women be built for childbirth because women who WOULD HAVE died before modern medicine are now living. We are actually removing (or lessening, to be more accurate) the selective pressure that encourages a body set up for childbirth. If anything, this would lead to a greater number of women who aren't naturally built for it. Eventually. I'm NOT concluding that this IS what is happening but it's much more likely/logical than your theory.
That's how evolution works.
Okay, things don't just 'evolve to get better'. That is a common misconception and the only logic I can imagine leading to your "it's probably still improving" statement.
Things evolve in a certain direction because there is a selective pressure to do so. In the case of childbirth there was competing selective pressures in opposite directions, and a balance was struck (see above). If there was a unidirectional selective pressure acting alone (the kind of situation that justifies a 'design' analogy) then yes, there might be continuing improvement, however, this is not the case.
If anything there is a less of a selective pressure to have women be built for childbirth because women who WOULD HAVE died before modern medicine are now living. We are actually removing (or lessening, to be more accurate) the selective pressure that encourages a body set up for childbirth. If anything, this would lead to a greater number of women who aren't naturally built for it. Eventually. I'm NOT concluding that this IS what is happening but it's much more likely/logical than your theory.
That's how evolution works.
117
mydriasis, in my experience, there's no joy engaging with Hunter78. I put him in the "don't feed the trolls" category. Your mileage may vary, of course.
119
My Driasis,
Things do evolve to get better, because if they get worse, they die. For all your repetitions of "selective pressures", you never mention one. So what are you talking about?
Nonsense like "1 in 100 is too much" reveals deep misunderstanding about evolution. Let's say an even broader pelvis would reduce birth deaths more. But maybe those more exposed hips would lead to more broken pelvises. Which "selective pressure" is stronger?
I can say things get better because: 1) Dan says it; 2) the world is a better place, look back 500 million years, things are clearly more beautiful.
Things do evolve to get better, because if they get worse, they die. For all your repetitions of "selective pressures", you never mention one. So what are you talking about?
Nonsense like "1 in 100 is too much" reveals deep misunderstanding about evolution. Let's say an even broader pelvis would reduce birth deaths more. But maybe those more exposed hips would lead to more broken pelvises. Which "selective pressure" is stronger?
I can say things get better because: 1) Dan says it; 2) the world is a better place, look back 500 million years, things are clearly more beautiful.
120
@102: Fisting often involves cervical stimulation, for women who enjoy it. In fact, that's often the whole point. If you don't get pleasure from cervical stimulation (many women don't) I can see why you wouldn't want to try fisting.
121
@116, 119: What I think Hunter means is that, if you were to design a pelvis width, you would have to make the same compromise between childbirth difficulties and bipedalism, and you might end up with the same balance as humans actually evolved. In other words, it may not be possible to do any better than we have now: design a wider pelvis and you run into the same problems that created the selection pressure in the first place.
Or, it might be possible to do better, because evolution is more complicated than that. Maybe a narrow pelvis is linked to some other favorable trait in women, and that other trait was selected for. Maybe the gene for a narrow pelvis in women made men stronger, so it was selected for in spite of its problems. Maybe sexual selection ended up being stronger than natural selection in this case. There are all sorts of reasons why the end result of evolution might not be optimal.
And of course, even if the end result of evolution was optimal, technology can do things that evolution can't. 1% mortality might be the best evolutionary outcome, but we have modern medicine now. From our point of view, not evolution's, 1% is too much, and modern medicine can reduce this rate in ways evolution is not equipped to.
Or, it might be possible to do better, because evolution is more complicated than that. Maybe a narrow pelvis is linked to some other favorable trait in women, and that other trait was selected for. Maybe the gene for a narrow pelvis in women made men stronger, so it was selected for in spite of its problems. Maybe sexual selection ended up being stronger than natural selection in this case. There are all sorts of reasons why the end result of evolution might not be optimal.
And of course, even if the end result of evolution was optimal, technology can do things that evolution can't. 1% mortality might be the best evolutionary outcome, but we have modern medicine now. From our point of view, not evolution's, 1% is too much, and modern medicine can reduce this rate in ways evolution is not equipped to.
122
Alright Erica, you were right.
Hunter, if you're confused you can go reread the post I originally made (and already directed you towards) there I go into slight detail about 3 selective pressures (actually, there's a fourth implied one) that contribute to the birth issue.
You also might want to use quotemarks when quoting things that people actually said, not paraphrases that change the meaning and bastardize it completely. That part in quotemarks would've been nonsense. If I had've said it.
Also, I never said things in general can't get better. I said there's no selective pressure for women to become more adapted to successful childbirth than they currently are.
If you'd like another example of things that are unlikely to get "better" because that's not how evolution works then google appendixes and look into those for a while. Or maybe just read a book on evolution that will give you a more accurate understanding.
Troll feeding over.
Hunter, if you're confused you can go reread the post I originally made (and already directed you towards) there I go into slight detail about 3 selective pressures (actually, there's a fourth implied one) that contribute to the birth issue.
You also might want to use quotemarks when quoting things that people actually said, not paraphrases that change the meaning and bastardize it completely. That part in quotemarks would've been nonsense. If I had've said it.
Also, I never said things in general can't get better. I said there's no selective pressure for women to become more adapted to successful childbirth than they currently are.
If you'd like another example of things that are unlikely to get "better" because that's not how evolution works then google appendixes and look into those for a while. Or maybe just read a book on evolution that will give you a more accurate understanding.
Troll feeding over.
123
Midwest mess, there's an excellent chance your boyfriend's gay. No matter what his orientation, however, he needs professional counseling and friendship before he's going to be ready to be a solid part of any relationship, and my advice to you is to recommend the former, continue to give him the latter and move on to someone who meets your needs. Marriage won't fix it. You'll just be married to a neurotic guy who has panic attacks and might start drinking again and won't touch you.
Doctor dude, change your body for the film if you take Dan's suggestions Shave if you don't, stop if you do, darken/lighten your skin, think about gaining/losing some weight for filming. If you MUST do this - but how many people can you think of who've had pix/films come back and bite them in the @ss?
FIST, look at your fist. Now find a newborn and look at its head. Do you also consider women who've had babies to be somehow ruined for sex?
Doctor dude, change your body for the film if you take Dan's suggestions Shave if you don't, stop if you do, darken/lighten your skin, think about gaining/losing some weight for filming. If you MUST do this - but how many people can you think of who've had pix/films come back and bite them in the @ss?
FIST, look at your fist. Now find a newborn and look at its head. Do you also consider women who've had babies to be somehow ruined for sex?
124
# 50 asks whether he is the only one "who wants santorum to become the republican nominee for president just so I can mock him to my hearts content."
Be careful what you wish for. Since the President seems to have the Democratic nomination sewed up, those Democrats who can vote in the Republican primary should carefully consider who they might like to see run against Obama in November. Keep in mind however that he might be very vulnerable. If the President blows it in November he's gonna blow it big time and having a totally reprehensible GOP candidate might not stop a Repube victory.
Be careful what you wish for. Since the President seems to have the Democratic nomination sewed up, those Democrats who can vote in the Republican primary should carefully consider who they might like to see run against Obama in November. Keep in mind however that he might be very vulnerable. If the President blows it in November he's gonna blow it big time and having a totally reprehensible GOP candidate might not stop a Repube victory.
127
My guess is, that in case Santorum truly has gay friends, those gay friends are brainwashed by their religious beliefs to not act gay (and with acting gay not meaning pink undergarment and girlish manners or anything stereotypical, but having gay sex). "Being one is not a sin, acting one is" is what we hear a lot in Finland.
128
Yes, #11!
“and fulfilling this particular kink would result in drastic and permanent physical changes that could ruin her for anyone else if we don't make it”
WTF? Yeah, fisting doesn’t work that way, but you think it does, and you’re still asking how to ask your girlfriend to do it?
I can see drastic and potentially ruinous bodily modification being a fantasy, but if a boyfriend asked me to relocate my spleen behind my ear or have my external bladder sphincter surgically removed even though it might “ruin me for anyone else if we don’t make it”—not to pretend, not to fantasize, but actually change my body in enormous and life-changing ways for his pleasure—he would get some very sharp, unfriendly words. And most likely a relationship pink slip.
“and fulfilling this particular kink would result in drastic and permanent physical changes that could ruin her for anyone else if we don't make it”
WTF? Yeah, fisting doesn’t work that way, but you think it does, and you’re still asking how to ask your girlfriend to do it?
I can see drastic and potentially ruinous bodily modification being a fantasy, but if a boyfriend asked me to relocate my spleen behind my ear or have my external bladder sphincter surgically removed even though it might “ruin me for anyone else if we don’t make it”—not to pretend, not to fantasize, but actually change my body in enormous and life-changing ways for his pleasure—he would get some very sharp, unfriendly words. And most likely a relationship pink slip.
129
Funny how Rick Santorum's gay "friends" cum up in the same column as a fisting question...... LOL
RSS
Twitter
Comments (129) RSS