It looks like you're moving toward more patterning in your work. "I'm looking at a lot of upholstery, and the idea of upholstery, and I want to take that further. I like the idea of things bent in on themselves. You know how with upholstery you have a nail and then the part that pooches out around it? I really like that. When I look at Naugahyde benches, I think, man, if you just cut out a square of that and put a frame around it, it would look really great and comment on a lot of things, have a lot of different layers. But for me, the physical act of cutting into the surface, knifing into it, chiseling into it, to create these little divots and pockets, with the idea of upholstery not necessarily relating directly but in the back of my mind--that was the engine that fueled this show."

Are you moving toward sculpture? Something less 2-D? "When I'm cutting into the surface with a chisel, that's what I'm doing."

Fighting the two dimensions. "Yeah. I haven't taken it that far yet, but it's kind of what I'm going toward."

What about color? These seem less bright and saturated than your last works. "Ideally I want to do the most with as little as possible. I want to have evocative and provocative images that have very little going on as far as materials. I want the materials to be lean as possible, and for them to speak as eloquently and as loudly as possible. Or quietly. I'm trying to drain the color out. Jaq [Chartier]'s show at Traver is so beautiful, and she really nails the idea of the stain, which has this ground in the Dada accident. She has the accident going on with the stain, and then she comments on the accident. I'd like to explore some of these ideas for myself."