November 7, 2012
HOLY POT-SMOKIN’ SHIT!
Washington State Just Legalized Marijuana
VICTORIA HOLT
I-502 campaign organizers Tonia Winchester and Alison Holcomb watch returns come in.
Tools
Put down the bong for just one fucking second, because Washington State voters are approving the legalization of marijuana by a 55–45 percent margin, according to Tuesday night’s latest results from election workers. More election results will trickle in over the next two weeks, but by all accounts, MARIJUANA IS LEGAL.
First, this means that adults 21 and older can legally possess up to one ounce of marijuana starting on December 6. Holy shit, right? Don’t smoke it in public, though. The law also requires the state to license pot growers, distributors, and stores. That part may be challenged by the federal government—but nobody knows for sure.
Stranger Personals
Colorado voters also just approved pot legalization with Amendment 64 by an eight-point margin.
But in Seattle, the night started out with plenty of skepticism.
It was 8:23 p.m. when Alison Holcomb, the campaign director for Washington’s Initiative 502, first stepped up to the microphone, and she wasn’t encouraging. The crowd assembled at Hotel Andra—a smart crowd stacked with lifelong pot activists and ACLU lawyers—shut the fuck up, fast.
Holcomb said, “At this point, we’re trailing,” Then: “Oh wait, never mind!” She’d been reading numbers for the state, minus King County. The crowd erupted in nervous laughter.
“You know what?” Holcomb said. “This is the point in the evening when I need a giant shot of tequila.”
While the crowd hardly resembled your stereotypical T-shirted, tattooed, tie-dyed stoners, the banquet spread was a snacker’s paradise of fried cheese and chicken kabobs, cucumber salads, and grilled pita.
People were already talking about next steps—how to tweak the Washington State Liquor Control Board into being the government mechanism to effectively end marijuana prohibition, which state politicians we can expect to step up and lead on implementing the new law, what the Feds will do (“They can invade us, they can sue us, they can ignore us,” one gentleman, whose tattoos discreetly peeked out from under his cuffs, ticked off on his fingers). While they talked, phones and iPads were obsessively refreshed, waiting for those all-important King County numbers.
Suddenly, Holcomb returned to the mic. “We’ve got 62 percent of King County,” she screamed, before the rest of her words were drowned out. Everyone was cheering. Fists were in the air! Eyes were shiny with tears! “I’ve been working for this moment every day for 40 years,” said one activist, who’d traveled up from California to be in Seattle on election night.
“I am so proud, so humbled to stand among the voters of the great state of Washington who have on this day taken a historic vote,” Holcomb said in her victory speech. “Ultimately, I’m most proud that despite controversy and uncertainty, Washington State exhibited tremendous leadership in reexamining a failed policy. Today, the state of Washington looked at 75 years of prohibition and said, ‘It is time for a new approach.’” 
2
The taxing structure is totally out of control.
grower to processor add 25%
processor to retailer add 25%
retailer to consumer add 25% AND approx 9.8% local/state sales tax
without any markup for processor or retailer it would make a $200 oz. wholesale cost $428 retail to final customer, or 53% of the total. Add in markup which everyone will need to stay in business, and it will be more like $700 retail for an oz.
And you cant grow your own, unless you've got a $1000 bucks to throw at your license annually.
I'll stick with the black market thank you very much.
grower to processor add 25%
processor to retailer add 25%
retailer to consumer add 25% AND approx 9.8% local/state sales tax
without any markup for processor or retailer it would make a $200 oz. wholesale cost $428 retail to final customer, or 53% of the total. Add in markup which everyone will need to stay in business, and it will be more like $700 retail for an oz.
And you cant grow your own, unless you've got a $1000 bucks to throw at your license annually.
I'll stick with the black market thank you very much.
3
Really?! The only comments are from an English teacher and an accountant?
Weed (sorry *cannabis*) is legal! Be joyous! Be proud! A 40-year old, failed drug war is finally meeting real resistance from the people.
I, for one, could not be happier with the results on 502 and plan to celebrate accordingly.
Weed (sorry *cannabis*) is legal! Be joyous! Be proud! A 40-year old, failed drug war is finally meeting real resistance from the people.
I, for one, could not be happier with the results on 502 and plan to celebrate accordingly.
4
@2: Even if you stick with the black market, you can rest easier knowing that because of I-502, your personal possession of 1oz or less is no longer a crime.
5
@1 yeah, but the wholesale price is probably going to be a hell of a lot lower, and the 200 an ounce that you pay your dealer is not the wholesale price
6
I'm sort of frightened that pot smokers could now receive DUI's, is there a chance the legal in-body limit will change?
How does one go on a road trip after (Dec. 6th) and not be fearful of a DUI? I mean, doesn't everybody bring a little for the road?
How does one go on a road trip after (Dec. 6th) and not be fearful of a DUI? I mean, doesn't everybody bring a little for the road?
8
Here's a thought - Don't drive like an ass and smoke pot!
Don't drive stoned out of your gourd, because lets face it people, it messed with your reaction times.
Don't go hotboxing in your car at the park.
Don't go over board. Massive amounts of early life alcohol consumption can mess up your brain AND SO CAN POT. I believe it. Perma stoner. Dont do it.
With new power comes new responsibility -
the prohibition was essentially saying people can't be trusted to have good judgment.
Prove them wrong.
Don't drive stoned out of your gourd, because lets face it people, it messed with your reaction times.
Don't go hotboxing in your car at the park.
Don't go over board. Massive amounts of early life alcohol consumption can mess up your brain AND SO CAN POT. I believe it. Perma stoner. Dont do it.
With new power comes new responsibility -
the prohibition was essentially saying people can't be trusted to have good judgment.
Prove them wrong.
9
re;#3, ha I'm hardly an accountant, although I did run my own construction company for roughly 15 years and did all the bookeeping, estimating, payroll, taxes myself.
re;#5 the resolution according to the voters guide estimated wholesale prices at $3 gram, or $84 oz.
(I don't know what kind of crappy weed you'll get for that price, but after water, electricity, fertilizers, (man)hours to tend to the crops, it's really not enough for a boutique grower, so the scale will have to be huge in order to be profitable.)
If one uses an $84 oz. and the standard markup of 200% the model gets even more extreme:
grower to processor; $84 +25% = $105
processor to retailer ($105 x200%) +25% = $262.50
retailer to consumer (($262.50 x200%) +25%) +9.8% = $720.56 oz.
so there you have it, about 2.4 times what it costs now, which is about $250-$300 oz for good stuff.
fyi #5, very few people actually buy direct from dealer, there is usually at least one intermediary. I was using a $200 oz as a hypothetical example.
I'll consider it legal, when I can grow my own in my backyard next to the tomatoes, and smoke a joint on the sidewalk in between bands at the club.
re;#5 the resolution according to the voters guide estimated wholesale prices at $3 gram, or $84 oz.
(I don't know what kind of crappy weed you'll get for that price, but after water, electricity, fertilizers, (man)hours to tend to the crops, it's really not enough for a boutique grower, so the scale will have to be huge in order to be profitable.)
If one uses an $84 oz. and the standard markup of 200% the model gets even more extreme:
grower to processor; $84 +25% = $105
processor to retailer ($105 x200%) +25% = $262.50
retailer to consumer (($262.50 x200%) +25%) +9.8% = $720.56 oz.
so there you have it, about 2.4 times what it costs now, which is about $250-$300 oz for good stuff.
fyi #5, very few people actually buy direct from dealer, there is usually at least one intermediary. I was using a $200 oz as a hypothetical example.
I'll consider it legal, when I can grow my own in my backyard next to the tomatoes, and smoke a joint on the sidewalk in between bands at the club.
10
Here's a thought - Don't drive like an ass and smoke pot!
Don't drive stoned out of your gourd, because lets face it people, it messed with your reaction times.
Don't go hotboxing in your car at the park.
Don't go over board. Massive amounts of early life alcohol consumption can mess up your brain AND SO CAN POT. I believe it. Perma stoner. Dont do it.
With new power comes new responsibility -
the prohibition was essentially saying people can't be trusted to have good judgment.
Prove them wrong.
Don't drive stoned out of your gourd, because lets face it people, it messed with your reaction times.
Don't go hotboxing in your car at the park.
Don't go over board. Massive amounts of early life alcohol consumption can mess up your brain AND SO CAN POT. I believe it. Perma stoner. Dont do it.
With new power comes new responsibility -
the prohibition was essentially saying people can't be trusted to have good judgment.
Prove them wrong.
11
So when will you actually be able to legally purchase? Seems like it's going to take awhile to get a licensing structure up and going.
12
Congrats to Washington and Colorado. This will hopefully be the tipping point to end the long national nightmare of pot prohibition.
13
As a non-smoker I think this needed to happen for very different reasons. For too long we have allowed mostly innocent and harmless people to go to jail. Less expense for tax payers. More importantly it will no longer be a gateway to criminal lifestyle.
14
I think some people worried about the price of legal pot fail to realize how much of the current expense is *because* it is illegal. Every person in the supply chain takes a big cut to compensate for the risk of going to jail.
Here is a thought. The cost of herbs on amazon.com is about $1-2/oz. Safron, famous for being a very expensive is $70/oz. Why in the world would anyone think that once legal, pot prices would stay so high? It might take a bit of time for economies of scale to develop, and the market to equilibrate, but the prices will fall despite the high taxes.
If prices fail to fall, big deal! It will be just like the status-quo for black-market growers and dealers, but nobody will be busted for possession any more!
Here is a thought. The cost of herbs on amazon.com is about $1-2/oz. Safron, famous for being a very expensive is $70/oz. Why in the world would anyone think that once legal, pot prices would stay so high? It might take a bit of time for economies of scale to develop, and the market to equilibrate, but the prices will fall despite the high taxes.
If prices fail to fall, big deal! It will be just like the status-quo for black-market growers and dealers, but nobody will be busted for possession any more!
15
fuck you I-502 is terrible im a medical patient and now i cant drive to my access point and back home with out the risk of a DUI even if i havent taken my medicine for 2 days you all fucked up
16
@15: You're making stuff up unless you'd care to post the results of your THC blood test after you haven't taken your medicine for two days like you say.
17
good, now theres a DUI provision in place that'll keep stoned drivers off the road right? Wrong stupid levels of active thc fluctuate (that means change) for several days so if you smoked 3 days ago get pulled over and a cop just says he smells cannabis youve got a 75/25 chance to ride off in cuffs. And lets not forget the millions that will start pouring into the state government. This was a bad call by uninformed voters pay more attention next time and stop celebrating this is a loss for everyone who wants "pot" legalized
19
@18: Wow, I'm bowled over by the proof you have presented that what I have read is wrong, and that people will fail the 5ng/ml THC blood test 2 days after abstaining. You should consider publishing your research.
20
Read this write up regarding THC testing and the DUI and be informed.
http://www.newapproachwa.org/sites/newap…
http://www.newapproachwa.org/sites/newap…
22
Apparently I can't post links unregistered. Go to the New Approach Washington website and read the damn DUI write up and stop being an ass.
23
I just don't see the feds going after WA and CO. They can't force WA to criminalize it and they definitely do not have the resources to go after small time users or even small time dealers themselves. Sure they could try to prevent WA from enforcing regulations and collecting taxes but I'd imagine that would be terribly unpopular with independents across the country: de facto legalization without tax revenue or regulations against the will of popular referenda.
24
Face it, you shouldn't be driving if you're drunk, stoned, or on a cell phone.
No matter what your "resistance" is.
No matter what your "resistance" is.
25
Blood level of THC drops much more rapidly than they do in urine or hair follicle. This is totally obvious. Just think about it - if it is in your blood, then you are stoned. As long as it stays in your blood, you stay stoned. When you aren't stoned anymore, that means the THC isn't in your blood anymore. It works the same for alcohol and all the other drugs. When you take a drug that keeps you messed up for days, that means it is in your blood for days. If it keeps you messed up for a few hours, then it is in your blood for a few hours.
26
I don't get the whining about DUIs... they can ALREADY pull you over for being stoned, except they could have arrested you (yes even you whiny medical user) for the pot possession on top of it and given you a criminal record, no student loans for life etc. Thankfully the concern troll medicinal community lost along with the squares yesterday and we can go ahead and rename the state "New Jamaica"!
27
some comments from Amsterdam;
- first of all CONGRATS! and well done, while we here in holland are/where going backwards you took a bigger step than we ever took and you did it by populair vote (we never voted on our "gedoogbeleid")
- learning from each other; lets hope that now the US is taking this turn we here in Holland can finaly really legalize as well because as you might not know growing & selling wholesale is still very much illegal here, possesion (under 5 grams) & growing personal small amounts is decriminalised'ish (its all very complicated & still pretty fucked up if you read into our situation). based on this i also hope you will have a good look at the many things we did wrong and demand full to be really full legalisation.
- about DUI; even while here possesion is decriminalised and use is legal it is very much ILLEGAL to DUI, its also generaly considerd plain wrong to drive stoned, after all why should you when you can smoke without fear in private and even all public places where you can smoke? That said its virtually unheard of to get a citation for driving under the influence of THC, you only get pulled over if you break other traffic laws or drive otherwise dangerously and they only test you if you seem intoxicated. the focus of the cops is on alcohol, if you cant even be bothered not to keep your dope in plain sight orhave a car full of smoke or smell you kind of deserve to get drugtested and get the book thrown at you imho.
also while the blood test can detect very long time ago we A. have reasonable tresholds that decide what makes it a DUI and what not and B. they cant test your blood unless your saliva test is positive, the saliva test can only detect THC use in the last 12-24 hours and if you can show a medical weed perscription they wont go to a blood test at all.
- prices; like mentioned before commercial growing, import and wholesale are still very much illegal here and get tightly prosecuted. so as in completely illegal situations the supliers ask for a big proffit to make up for the risks.
sale to the public in the "gedoogde"("tollerated") coffeeshops is on the other hand almost unregulated ultimated laize-fare capitalism, the law sets limmits on how much one can buy but (as its not really legal) its not taxed besides the income tax the shop needs to pay.
prices for a good but not extraordinary (to dutch high standards) quality product are here are between 8 and 14 euro's a gram, i dont know what that exactly converts to but a packet of (heavily taxed) a-brand sigarets is about 7 euro's. As i think under full legalisation here the price increase in full heavy taxation would balance out with price drop by loss of the insane "risk-factor" price hike the dealers and coffeeshop keepers throw on it and the now legal and thus cheaper because more efficient infrastructure, transport and production, a gram of quality weed for the price of a pack of sigarets seems pretty reasonable and fair.
More...
- first of all CONGRATS! and well done, while we here in holland are/where going backwards you took a bigger step than we ever took and you did it by populair vote (we never voted on our "gedoogbeleid")
- learning from each other; lets hope that now the US is taking this turn we here in Holland can finaly really legalize as well because as you might not know growing & selling wholesale is still very much illegal here, possesion (under 5 grams) & growing personal small amounts is decriminalised'ish (its all very complicated & still pretty fucked up if you read into our situation). based on this i also hope you will have a good look at the many things we did wrong and demand full to be really full legalisation.
- about DUI; even while here possesion is decriminalised and use is legal it is very much ILLEGAL to DUI, its also generaly considerd plain wrong to drive stoned, after all why should you when you can smoke without fear in private and even all public places where you can smoke? That said its virtually unheard of to get a citation for driving under the influence of THC, you only get pulled over if you break other traffic laws or drive otherwise dangerously and they only test you if you seem intoxicated. the focus of the cops is on alcohol, if you cant even be bothered not to keep your dope in plain sight orhave a car full of smoke or smell you kind of deserve to get drugtested and get the book thrown at you imho.
also while the blood test can detect very long time ago we A. have reasonable tresholds that decide what makes it a DUI and what not and B. they cant test your blood unless your saliva test is positive, the saliva test can only detect THC use in the last 12-24 hours and if you can show a medical weed perscription they wont go to a blood test at all.
- prices; like mentioned before commercial growing, import and wholesale are still very much illegal here and get tightly prosecuted. so as in completely illegal situations the supliers ask for a big proffit to make up for the risks.
sale to the public in the "gedoogde"("tollerated") coffeeshops is on the other hand almost unregulated ultimated laize-fare capitalism, the law sets limmits on how much one can buy but (as its not really legal) its not taxed besides the income tax the shop needs to pay.
prices for a good but not extraordinary (to dutch high standards) quality product are here are between 8 and 14 euro's a gram, i dont know what that exactly converts to but a packet of (heavily taxed) a-brand sigarets is about 7 euro's. As i think under full legalisation here the price increase in full heavy taxation would balance out with price drop by loss of the insane "risk-factor" price hike the dealers and coffeeshop keepers throw on it and the now legal and thus cheaper because more efficient infrastructure, transport and production, a gram of quality weed for the price of a pack of sigarets seems pretty reasonable and fair.
28
I wonder what this means if you work for a company that is considered a "drug-free workplace" and does urine tests for marijuana? It may be legal in the state, but what if your company's HQ is out of state? I'd love to take part in this new law but I certainly can't lose my employment over it!
29
Blood level of THC drops much more rapidly than they do in urine or hair follicle. This is totally obvious. Just think about it - if it is in your blood, then you are stoned. As long as it stays in your blood, you stay stoned. When you aren't stoned anymore, that means the THC isn't in your blood anymore. It works the same for alcohol and all the other drugs. When you take a drug that keeps you messed up for days, that means it is in your blood for days. If it keeps you messed up for a few hours, then it is in your blood for a few hours.
There is no 200% markup, where do you get this stuff?
grower to processor add 25%
processor to retailer add 25%
retailer to consumer add 25% AND approx 9.8% local/state sales tax
the resolution according to the voters guide estimated wholesale prices at $3 gram, or $84 oz
Grower == $84/oz
Processor == $84/oz + 25% == $105/oz
Retailer == $105/oz + 25% == $131.25/oz
Consumer == ($131.25/oz + 25%) + 9.8% == $164.07/oz + 9.8% == $180.15
So an ounce will cost $180.15 that sounds like an awesome price to me.
There is no 200% markup, where do you get this stuff?
grower to processor add 25%
processor to retailer add 25%
retailer to consumer add 25% AND approx 9.8% local/state sales tax
the resolution according to the voters guide estimated wholesale prices at $3 gram, or $84 oz
Grower == $84/oz
Processor == $84/oz + 25% == $105/oz
Retailer == $105/oz + 25% == $131.25/oz
Consumer == ($131.25/oz + 25%) + 9.8% == $164.07/oz + 9.8% == $180.15
So an ounce will cost $180.15 that sounds like an awesome price to me.
30
lilyahnia:
Here's a thought - Don't drive like an ass and smoke pot!
Don't drive stoned out of your gourd, because lets face it people, it messes with your reaction times.
Don't go hotboxing in your car at the park.
With new power comes new responsibility -
Prove them wrong.
I agree with you lilyahnia.
So while last night we passed marijuana legalization, possession of marijuana isn't actually legal until December 6th. Which means if you have a bag on you tomorrow, it's still illegal.
Even after December 6th it doesn't mean people should just go around smoking up all over the place. You wouldn't go around with a bottle of booze in your hand everywhere drinking it. I know it's exciting that this big step has been taken and celebrating is great but I believe users of marijuana need to show everyone that we can be intelligent and act adult with this legalization passing. This is just a rough start to something that may, overtime, become even better. We need to show this country and the world that marijuana is not a bad thing. Like what lilyahnia said: "With new power comes new responsibility."
Here's a thought - Don't drive like an ass and smoke pot!
Don't drive stoned out of your gourd, because lets face it people, it messes with your reaction times.
Don't go hotboxing in your car at the park.
With new power comes new responsibility -
Prove them wrong.
I agree with you lilyahnia.
So while last night we passed marijuana legalization, possession of marijuana isn't actually legal until December 6th. Which means if you have a bag on you tomorrow, it's still illegal.
Even after December 6th it doesn't mean people should just go around smoking up all over the place. You wouldn't go around with a bottle of booze in your hand everywhere drinking it. I know it's exciting that this big step has been taken and celebrating is great but I believe users of marijuana need to show everyone that we can be intelligent and act adult with this legalization passing. This is just a rough start to something that may, overtime, become even better. We need to show this country and the world that marijuana is not a bad thing. Like what lilyahnia said: "With new power comes new responsibility."
32
@15
Lay off the bud for a few minutes and educate yourself on the difference between a drug screen that looks for marijuana metabolites (like urine tests) and a blood test for active THC.
Active THC levels drop rapidly. That's why your high goes away. The DUI limit doesn't apply to inactive metabolites. Don't drive stoned. Period. Then you can chill out about driving to your dispensary while you're sober.
Lay off the bud for a few minutes and educate yourself on the difference between a drug screen that looks for marijuana metabolites (like urine tests) and a blood test for active THC.
Active THC levels drop rapidly. That's why your high goes away. The DUI limit doesn't apply to inactive metabolites. Don't drive stoned. Period. Then you can chill out about driving to your dispensary while you're sober.
33
Hey Codejingle at #29, the MARKUP is what businesses need to survive as businesses it's what covers the cost of doing business, like driving around to pick and deliver, electricity, rent, wages and lets not forget actual profit (or the wages of the business owner.
You're just not going to find anyone who will sell a product for the exact same price that they bought it for, just so they can collect the tax (for free), to give to the governor.
200% is a standard markup in all areas of business from manufacturer to distributor to retailer. The new shoes at the store did not cost $150 minus whatever taxes and duties to produce. They cost maybe $15 to manufacture including labor, the manufacturer doubles their costs to $30 to realize their profit when they sell them to a distributor who would then double their total cost including initial purchase, fuel costs, duties, fees and wages when the they in turn sell it to a retailer, the retailer then doubles their purchase price for final use sale, so they can cover things like rent, wages, utilities, electricity, wages, B&O taxes etc.. The system is part of the reason things cost so much.
The real question is why don't you understand this BASIC fact about capitalism, markets, and the driving forces of economy?
You're just not going to find anyone who will sell a product for the exact same price that they bought it for, just so they can collect the tax (for free), to give to the governor.
200% is a standard markup in all areas of business from manufacturer to distributor to retailer. The new shoes at the store did not cost $150 minus whatever taxes and duties to produce. They cost maybe $15 to manufacture including labor, the manufacturer doubles their costs to $30 to realize their profit when they sell them to a distributor who would then double their total cost including initial purchase, fuel costs, duties, fees and wages when the they in turn sell it to a retailer, the retailer then doubles their purchase price for final use sale, so they can cover things like rent, wages, utilities, electricity, wages, B&O taxes etc.. The system is part of the reason things cost so much.
The real question is why don't you understand this BASIC fact about capitalism, markets, and the driving forces of economy?
36
So do the police swing you by the hospital for a quick blood test or is there some kind of swab test or otherwise?
37
YES, YES, YES, YES! THIS IS GREAT NEWS! I am only sorry we in Oregon could not follow suit; however we will watch for your leadership on this WA, as well as trying to vote on it again, perhaps with an inititive more similar to your model. To the Stranger staff, please keep us posted on how the Feds crack down.
38
@ 3; I of course dont know how it will end up over where you are but here in the netherlands the cops have a saliva test that test for "presence" of the most commonly abused drugs (sadly excluding the most dangerous one GHB). as its not a very reliable test and its only gives yes and no and not any tresholds (which is problamatic considering that drug use of anykind is not illegal here, only its possesion and DUI) they only use when there is cause for it, like when some one seems intoxicated but tests negative on the alcohol breatheliser or when there is drugs(parafanelia) on sight when they pull a car over.
if you then test positive you can either choose to accept a "transactionproposal" for DUI, a sort of fine thats only further relevant in regards to your drivers license and doesnt give you a criminal record or you can contest your guilt which means that they will take you to police station and a trained nurse will perform the bloodtest. this is actually the same with the alcohol breath test, one can always demand a blood test but if after you still test above the limit you will almost always be prosecuted and your punishment will show up on your record.
Last thing thats relevant is of course "culture", smoking weed is here pretty much an accepted behavior for anyone above 16, so when it comes to weed & hash you have to make it pretty bad before the cops bother test you, just a single joint on your dash isnt enough in general. sadly racism is as always with the cops a factor, north african and black people get tested more than caucasians but still not nearly as much as young people with french or belgium numberplates (who are automatically assumed to be drug tourists.
long story short; if you dont drive stoned beyond oblivion/hotbox and can be bothered to trow your stuff in your glove box instead of keeping them on your dash you should be fine. With the amount of drunk or wired people on the roads the cops got better shit to do than test people for some THC.
More...
if you then test positive you can either choose to accept a "transactionproposal" for DUI, a sort of fine thats only further relevant in regards to your drivers license and doesnt give you a criminal record or you can contest your guilt which means that they will take you to police station and a trained nurse will perform the bloodtest. this is actually the same with the alcohol breath test, one can always demand a blood test but if after you still test above the limit you will almost always be prosecuted and your punishment will show up on your record.
Last thing thats relevant is of course "culture", smoking weed is here pretty much an accepted behavior for anyone above 16, so when it comes to weed & hash you have to make it pretty bad before the cops bother test you, just a single joint on your dash isnt enough in general. sadly racism is as always with the cops a factor, north african and black people get tested more than caucasians but still not nearly as much as young people with french or belgium numberplates (who are automatically assumed to be drug tourists.
long story short; if you dont drive stoned beyond oblivion/hotbox and can be bothered to trow your stuff in your glove box instead of keeping them on your dash you should be fine. With the amount of drunk or wired people on the roads the cops got better shit to do than test people for some THC.
39
I voted for I-502(and when Sensible Washington's petition is filed in January,I will sign THAT as well;it will be Morally superior to New Approach Washington's ballot initiative-that-will-be-a-bill,so YOU should sign it as well!----- http://www.sensiblewashington.org).I recommend ignoring the feds and/or make a citizen's arrest of any DEA agent who violates FEDERAL law by attempting to arrest you for violating the anti-Constitutional Controlled Substances Act of 1970).
41
I take it local and state pigs/employees of The People of the State of Washington may NOT enforce anti-Constitutional laws for the DEA anymore here?
42
Will somebody please explain to me what the fuck U.S. Patent Number 6630507 is supposed to signify?(Other than Hypocrisy?)
43
Local cops and prosecutors in King County said yesterday there will be no enforcement and no charges for possession starting Dec 6 of this year. They couldn't do anything even if they wanted to.
You will never see a lone DEA agent going around busting individual people for possession. They only go after growers and retailers who are 'overdoing it' so-to-speak. You should be fine with the DEA unless you have a park or warehouse full of plants.
You will never see a lone DEA agent going around busting individual people for possession. They only go after growers and retailers who are 'overdoing it' so-to-speak. You should be fine with the DEA unless you have a park or warehouse full of plants.
44
I wonder what the Mexican mafias this of this? I hope this is a solid step towards freeing the Mexican people of the nightmare drug war that has gone on for far too long.
45
"12 - Tim Horton,"
SINCE WE ARE BROTHERS IN NAME, I WILL AGREE WITH YOU. BUT, I AM SURE TOBACCO WILL BE TAXED "BIG TIME;" SO, LOOK OVER YOUR SHOULDER WHILE YOU ARE HOLDIN' THAT JOINT!
CHRISTOPHER ALLEN HORTON
SINCE WE ARE BROTHERS IN NAME, I WILL AGREE WITH YOU. BUT, I AM SURE TOBACCO WILL BE TAXED "BIG TIME;" SO, LOOK OVER YOUR SHOULDER WHILE YOU ARE HOLDIN' THAT JOINT!
CHRISTOPHER ALLEN HORTON
46
To anyone worried about the DUI standard: Police still need probable cause (that means you have to be swerving around or something, then fail a roadside sobriety test) before they can arrest you for suspected THC toxicity- a necessary precursor to the invasive procedure of taking your blood. They're not just going to go around sticking needles in every owner of a VW bus. Chill.
47
Response to the Federal Supremacy Conundrum:
Both gubernatorial candidates (and many others) opposed I-502 on the grounds that it conflicts with federal law. That is, marijuana will still be illegal. So should we have waited for the feds to legalize it first? Done nothing, like good little boys and girls?
Maybe that would've been easier. But instead we asserted our independence like grownups, like People. We chose civil disobedience.
Civil disobedience, for those who don’t know, is a “public, nonviolent, conscientious yet political act contrary to law usually done with the aim of bringing about a change in the law or policies of the government” (Rawls).
Governments rarely change from within. They are conservative by design, even when led by nominally liberal administrations. And so they should be, I think- we can’t be constantly changing our laws all the time without good reason. But on the other hand -and this is vital- governments exist to serve the people. Hear that Jay Inslee? (He does- or says he does anyway.)
Since it is the people of Washington's demonstrated collective will that we should be free to ingest a non-dangerous substance (or not- as Rick Steves opines you don’t have to be pro-pot to be anti-prohibition) we must stand by our historic initiative and risk the consequences of our concerted action. Easy to say: Joe joint-a-day won't get hassled by the DEA. Here's the tough part: Our elected officials MUST do what we have instructed them to- defy the feds.
Like the states repealed alcohol prohibition one by one in defiance of federal supremacy, so too have Washingtonians and Coloradans gotten the ball rolling on this one, and perhaps others will follow our courageous example like lemmings, like dominoes. Perhaps not. Maybe we've picked a fight with a 300 lb black belt and are about to get a serious smack down. But does anyone really believe that? The most likely upshot will be a bunch of media attention, a little backlash, then a laissez-faire federal attitude.
After all, D.C. is a long way away and very busy.
It is your moral obligation to disobey an unjust law.
-Dr. Martin Luther King
One who breaks an unjust law must do so openly, lovingly, and with a willingness to accept the penalty.
-Dr. Martin Luther King
Disobedience that is wholly civil should never provoke retaliation.
-Mahatma Ghandi
More...
Both gubernatorial candidates (and many others) opposed I-502 on the grounds that it conflicts with federal law. That is, marijuana will still be illegal. So should we have waited for the feds to legalize it first? Done nothing, like good little boys and girls?
Maybe that would've been easier. But instead we asserted our independence like grownups, like People. We chose civil disobedience.
Civil disobedience, for those who don’t know, is a “public, nonviolent, conscientious yet political act contrary to law usually done with the aim of bringing about a change in the law or policies of the government” (Rawls).
Governments rarely change from within. They are conservative by design, even when led by nominally liberal administrations. And so they should be, I think- we can’t be constantly changing our laws all the time without good reason. But on the other hand -and this is vital- governments exist to serve the people. Hear that Jay Inslee? (He does- or says he does anyway.)
Since it is the people of Washington's demonstrated collective will that we should be free to ingest a non-dangerous substance (or not- as Rick Steves opines you don’t have to be pro-pot to be anti-prohibition) we must stand by our historic initiative and risk the consequences of our concerted action. Easy to say: Joe joint-a-day won't get hassled by the DEA. Here's the tough part: Our elected officials MUST do what we have instructed them to- defy the feds.
Like the states repealed alcohol prohibition one by one in defiance of federal supremacy, so too have Washingtonians and Coloradans gotten the ball rolling on this one, and perhaps others will follow our courageous example like lemmings, like dominoes. Perhaps not. Maybe we've picked a fight with a 300 lb black belt and are about to get a serious smack down. But does anyone really believe that? The most likely upshot will be a bunch of media attention, a little backlash, then a laissez-faire federal attitude.
After all, D.C. is a long way away and very busy.
It is your moral obligation to disobey an unjust law.
-Dr. Martin Luther King
One who breaks an unjust law must do so openly, lovingly, and with a willingness to accept the penalty.
-Dr. Martin Luther King
Disobedience that is wholly civil should never provoke retaliation.
-Mahatma Ghandi
49
Where are people getting the three step tax rate? The 25% from grower to processor, then 25% from processor to retailer, then 25% to end user. Who the hell uses a "processor." If you're growing and too damn lazy to prune and cure your own buds you're running a failed business model. And most of the cannabis retailers out there for medical are selling what they grew. So when your are the grower and retailer - BAM, onetime 25% tax!! And now that you can grow legally, you won't need the expensive MH/HPS lights with the filtration systems that drive the price of growing sky high!! Just get yourself some land East of the mountains and the cost of growing good high quality weed will be no more then growing high quality grapes for a vintage wine. Thank you Washington for approving I-502!!
50
So, it won't be legal to smoke outside?
It's funny how people assume it's a right to drive a car, especially the right to drive while intoxicated. If you're stoned, get a taxi or take a bus.
It's funny how people assume it's a right to drive a car, especially the right to drive while intoxicated. If you're stoned, get a taxi or take a bus.
51
The measure itself dictates how many layers there need to be between the grower and consumer, at least for those that want to buy a license and abide by it. And there has to be some kind of markup between layers, right?
But you are right a grower can technically sell their product to anyone, don't have to follow the measure's dictated food chain. Possession will be legal in less than a month so hopefully our local dealers will stop being paranoid and just relax and start selling to more people.
But you are right a grower can technically sell their product to anyone, don't have to follow the measure's dictated food chain. Possession will be legal in less than a month so hopefully our local dealers will stop being paranoid and just relax and start selling to more people.
52
@49 Grower and producer can be the same person or different. As the law is written (from what I remember) the producer is the one making the edibles etc. and doing the packaging for the retail. To my understanding, one person cannot be grower, producer & retailer.
As for this DIU BS, google you fools. Driving stoned vs. completely sober has no statisticaly relevent difference in accident rates.
Another point of fact for those of you saying that thc in blood over the limit described in I-502 means you are stoned...again, google is your friend. I can smoke @ 10pm, go to bed & test over the limit 12hrs later and I am stone cold fucking sober.
The dui limit for thc has NO BASIS IN FACT!! There is no study or science behind it. NONE, NADA, ZIP!
The presence of detectable THC in blood, saliva, hair, or urine is NOT proof of impairment. It is only proof that you have used a THC containing product. There is a difference people.
Now, driving drunk OR drunk AND stoned is a whole different thing.
As for this DIU BS, google you fools. Driving stoned vs. completely sober has no statisticaly relevent difference in accident rates.
Another point of fact for those of you saying that thc in blood over the limit described in I-502 means you are stoned...again, google is your friend. I can smoke @ 10pm, go to bed & test over the limit 12hrs later and I am stone cold fucking sober.
The dui limit for thc has NO BASIS IN FACT!! There is no study or science behind it. NONE, NADA, ZIP!
The presence of detectable THC in blood, saliva, hair, or urine is NOT proof of impairment. It is only proof that you have used a THC containing product. There is a difference people.
Now, driving drunk OR drunk AND stoned is a whole different thing.
53
Just like alcohol. You can smoke marijuana inside or outside, but not on public property. So if you are at home or at a friend's house it is OK to smoke inside or on the porch or deck, and in the yard if they have one.
You can't stroll around in the streets smoking it. People probably won't care, it just technically isn't legal.
I am sure that is very similar to the laws for medical marijuana usage.
If anyone is still wondering about federal response, just remember they said medical marijuana was OK even if they didn't make it completely legal. Read the official federal guidelines from 2009 here:
http://www.justice.gov/opa/documents/med…
Since the federal guidelines were publishes my wife has been caught with marijuana twice without prosecution, they just took it away from her. Before the guidelines were passed they took it away and she was prosecuted.
So we are golden because of these federal guidelines and because the I-502 measure mirrors or is very similar to medical marijuana law (and roughly as strict or stricter).
Link to official I-502 measure:
https://wei.sos.wa.gov/agency/osos/en/pr…
Link to current WA medical marijuana laws:
http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?…
Current status of implementation of I-502 (selling marijuana in liquor stores):
http://liq.wa.gov/marijuana/I-502
Other pages:
http://www.doh.wa.gov/YouandYourFamily/I…
http://vote.wa.gov/results/current/Initi…
http://www.seattlepi.com/local/article/W…
http://www.westseattleherald.com/2012/11…
More...
You can't stroll around in the streets smoking it. People probably won't care, it just technically isn't legal.
I am sure that is very similar to the laws for medical marijuana usage.
If anyone is still wondering about federal response, just remember they said medical marijuana was OK even if they didn't make it completely legal. Read the official federal guidelines from 2009 here:
http://www.justice.gov/opa/documents/med…
Since the federal guidelines were publishes my wife has been caught with marijuana twice without prosecution, they just took it away from her. Before the guidelines were passed they took it away and she was prosecuted.
So we are golden because of these federal guidelines and because the I-502 measure mirrors or is very similar to medical marijuana law (and roughly as strict or stricter).
Link to official I-502 measure:
https://wei.sos.wa.gov/agency/osos/en/pr…
Link to current WA medical marijuana laws:
http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?…
Current status of implementation of I-502 (selling marijuana in liquor stores):
http://liq.wa.gov/marijuana/I-502
Other pages:
http://www.doh.wa.gov/YouandYourFamily/I…
http://vote.wa.gov/results/current/Initi…
http://www.seattlepi.com/local/article/W…
http://www.westseattleherald.com/2012/11…
54
Has anyone else noticed that the story is pretty thinly run in the national mainstream press. Almost like they're under reporting it on purpose, especially with all it's sensational value? And the local news aren't doing as much as I would think either. This is huge! More important than who's president? The budget and tax policy of the U.S. is big, but the president? They just made what's been illegal for a century, and hotly debated and a major subject concerning all families globally almost. Lucky devils that got their cases dropped because of this ... compared to people I know that paid thrpugh the nose once upon a time for a pot possession bust. Okay, I'm done.
55
Right well no one can convince me 100% either way on the DUI part. I'll buy a few blood test kits and figure it out for myself how long after I need to wait before passing the mark. The most important step is to make it completely legal for all, at least state-side. I'll be pushing to relax the laws over the next few years just like every one else who voted yes.
57
Its was about time! Just wait, Amsterdam will be very sorry loosing tourist pot dollars to the US.
Sandra
My blog @
www.psoriasiswarning.com
Sandra
My blog @
www.psoriasiswarning.com
58
Its about time! Just wait and see, Amsterdam will be so mad because they loose a whole a lot of tourist dollars to the US now, because of their own restrictions.
Sandra
My blog @
www.psoriasiswarning.com
Sandra
My blog @
www.psoriasiswarning.com
60
Who keeps yacking about taxes and profit? Its
a goddamn WEED for Christ's sake! If your in it
for the money, FUCK OFF! Grow your own! Get a
regular job. Weed is a gift from God(or nature or whatever)not a business venture.
a goddamn WEED for Christ's sake! If your in it
for the money, FUCK OFF! Grow your own! Get a
regular job. Weed is a gift from God(or nature or whatever)not a business venture.
61
Wait, can I buy more than an ounce to make brownies? Will there be bricks in the liquor stores? Does this include hash? The east Coast want to know more.
62
Possession of more than an ounce on your person is illegal so no there is no way to buy more than an ounce at a time no matter what you are doing with it. Like medical marijuana stores they will start selling products containing maijuana so you can buy pre-made pot brownies too.
The measure doesn't stipulate a tracking system of any kind, nor does it stipulate how long an ounce of marijuana is supposed to last, so technically you can keep going back and buying more. But that may run you into other issues, including the chance of getting caught with too much on you then you get charge just like good-old days. So if you go to buy more leave what you have at home, so there is no chance of getting caught with more than an ounce at a time.
The measure doesn't stipulate a tracking system of any kind, nor does it stipulate how long an ounce of marijuana is supposed to last, so technically you can keep going back and buying more. But that may run you into other issues, including the chance of getting caught with too much on you then you get charge just like good-old days. So if you go to buy more leave what you have at home, so there is no chance of getting caught with more than an ounce at a time.
63
Neat. I don't live in these states, but I am happy people are for legalizing it. The War on Drugs is a failure. It is giant, racist waste of money. Think about Prohibition. People still wanted to drink alcohol and the mafias were more than happy to help out, which resulted in waves of organized crime. This is exactly what happens with the War on Drugs. These drugs being illegal just gives the drug cartels more power.
I just say legalize it and tax it. The tax will actually result in government revenue. Instead of putting non-violent drug users in jail, maybe we could put actual criminals who commit serious crimes like rape and murder in prison.
I live in Arizona and at least we legalized medical marijuana, but that doesn't go far enough.
I just say legalize it and tax it. The tax will actually result in government revenue. Instead of putting non-violent drug users in jail, maybe we could put actual criminals who commit serious crimes like rape and murder in prison.
I live in Arizona and at least we legalized medical marijuana, but that doesn't go far enough.
Also by Stranger Election Control Board
The Biggest Winners and Losers
Who Really Kicked Ass and Who Really Got Their Ass Kicked
7 comments »
RSS
Twitter
Comments (64) RSS