Savage Love


I'm a 34-year-old straight woman living with a 32-year-old straight man. His daughter is 2, and I am the only mother she has ever known. (Her real mother is a crack whore somewhere.) My boyfriend tells me he loves me, but it doesn't feel like he wants to spend any time with me. I pay the rent and am the only person in our household with a full-time job. When I get home, I want to relax. He wants to go out because he has been sitting at home all day. If he hasn't been at home, he has been running around with his friends. This pisses me off, and I am not afraid to tell him so. His response? "You're just jealous because you have to work!" Damn right I'm jealous! Also, I do all the cooking and don't get any help with cleanup or housework.

Other factors include my 13-year-old son, who has had trouble adjusting to a baby in the house; my boyfriend's outstanding warrants; and the fact that I have desperately wanted another baby for 10 years. What on earth should I do?

Back Against The Wall

Here's one occupational hazard of the advice-column bidness: If you're not careful, if you're not constantly on your guard, you can fill your column with letters like BATW's. Your column fills up with letters from people asking, in essence, "DTMFA?" and you're forced to respond, "Yes, for fuck's sake, DTMFA." (For those of you just tuning in: DTMFA stands for "dump the motherfucker already.") You may be helping people, sure, but your column quickly becomes a tedious slog, people stop reading, and then you have to get a real job at an auto plant or a hedge fund or a daily newspaper.

But there is one good reason to run DTMFA letters: You can dispose of the letter quickly—keep the baby, if at all possible, BATW, and DTMF'ing freeloading, inconsiderate piece of shit—and move on to more interesting topics.

For instance: A new study out of the Bradley Hasbro Children's Research Center found that "anal sex is on the rise" among straight teenagers and young adults. According to a heavy-breathing report from ABC News, straight kids are having butt sex "to please a partner, to have sex without the risk of pregnancy, or to preserve their virginity."

I'm old enough to remember when getting fucked in the ass was considered a sex act, something that virgins, almost by definition, shied away from. But that was before kids were subjected to religious indoctrination masquerading as sex-ed. Abstinence "educators" emphasize the importance of virginity—but they only talk about vaginal intercourse because they figure if we don't tell kids about anal sex they'll never figure out what brown can do for them. But they do figure it out. And lacking accurate info, kids aren't just concluding that anal sex isn't really sex. ("Otherwise it would've been covered in our sex-ed classes, right?") Kids are telling researchers that anal intercourse, unlike the premarital vaginal intercourse they were warned about (STDs! Pregnancy! Eternal damnation!), carries no risk of disease. (I can't wait to tell all my dead friends!)

I wanted to scream and yell about this study—and a DTMFA letter leaves plenty of room—but then I figured, you know, fuck it. I've been ranting and raving about the idiocy of abstinence education for 10 years. Obviously I can't beat 'em, so I might as well join 'em. All my life I've had to listen to fundamentalist Christian bigots like Pat Robertson and Rick Warren—Rick Warren, Obama?—fume about all the terrible, no good, really bad sodomy gay men get up to. But I haven't been sodomizing the boyfriend all these years! I've been preserving his virginity.

I've been preserving the shit out of my boyfriend's virginity for 14 years now. If my boyfriend ever decides to marry a woman—miracles can happen!—he'll be able to wear white at his wedding. Hell, he's so pure he can wear Saran Wrap at his wedding. And his wife will have me to thank for delivering him to her with his virginity intact. (Unfortunately, the boyfriend can't preserve my virginity. As a teenager, I had actual vaginal intercourse, under duress, with an actual female's actual vagina.) But until the boyfriend meets the right girl, I'm going to keep preserving the living shit out of his virginity. His virginity isn't going anywhere—not on my watch.

My girlfriend's parents are very wealthy and are paying for her education. They also bought her an apartment and give her tons of spending money. My dad is dead(beat) and my mom is a waitress, and I'm paying my way through school. My girlfriend demands gifts and flowers. I pay for everything when we go out. Other than this, she's sweet and attractive. Once I graduate and start working, I'll be happy to pay for everything. But how do I convince her that things have to be more egalitarian for the time being without losing her?

Boyfriend Reeling Over Killer Expenses

P.S. She's only ever physically affectionate after I've spent money on her.

DTMFA, BROKE. And here's hoping that the girlfriend's parents invested all their money with Bernard Madoff, and that the spoiled- rotten little whore they raised has to get a job and start pulling her own weight.

And, hey, here's another interesting study: While straight kids are busily boning each other's butts—the better to preserve their virginities!—gay teenagers are knocking each other up. According to a study out of the University of British Columbia, lesbian and gay teenagers are seven times likelier to get knocked up than their straight peers. How the hell does that happen? Well, gay teens are having straight sex in order "to prove they are heterosexual to avoid harassment and discrimination" by their parents and peers. In other words, gay kids are still having heterosexual sex under duress. This is where abstinence education and homophobia have gotten us: Gay kids are having vaginal intercourse and straight kids are having anal intercourse. Good work, sexphobes!

I've been reading your column since I was 13. I'm 20 now and dating a 41-year-old crossdresser. We were friends for six months before he told me he wouldn't be able to spend time with me anymore unless we "got closer." A couple months later, he told me he is into pegging. Now, pegging is all he wants to do. He also told me that he wants to transition from male to female, but he changed his mind and stopped going to his appointments. All that is background to what has been happening recently. When we fight lately, he makes threatening gestures like he is going to punch me. He also pulls my hair and chokes me. He refuses to apologize and tells me I deserve it. I don't know what to do.

Worried And Sad

You've been reading my column since you were 13, WAS, and you don't know what to do? DTMFA—right fucking now, this fucking minute, without fucking delay. Choking and hair-pulling is physical abuse; telling you that you "deserve it" is emotional abuse. And those raised fists—not very ladylike of him, I must say—are a prologue to more extreme acts of abuse. DTMFA.

Everyone else: Get your tickets right this fucking minute to The Stranger's inauguration-day brunch, hosted by me, by visiting or calling 206-838-4333. The Stranger's on vacation next week, but you can find a new column next Wednesday on our website.


Comments (85) RSS

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You got it right, once again, Dan!
Posted by TXGayGuy on December 23, 2008 at 11:25 AM · Report this
Posted by b on December 23, 2008 at 12:19 PM · Report this
Posted by Lily Fluffbottom on December 23, 2008 at 12:24 PM · Report this
Now I'm wondering how many DTMF letters a week you get. And how many are real, as in the POV of the letter-writer is an accurate reflection of the situation. (or, yeah, how many are written by bored liars)
Posted by so very many MFs to D! on December 23, 2008 at 1:08 PM · Report this
Maybe high rates of teenage pregnancy among gay kids are God's way of making sure gays reproduce.

In the future, everyone is a breeder for 15 minutes.
Posted by David on December 23, 2008 at 1:24 PM · Report this
I think the last letter's a fake.
Posted by izzy on December 23, 2008 at 2:11 PM · Report this
I agree with izzy. I highly doubt anyone would be that stupid to not dump that guy (or is it girl?)
Posted by natey abes! on December 23, 2008 at 2:38 PM · Report this
Dan, the other thing you need to tell BROKE, in my opinion, is that in the history of the world, no one has ever had just ONE girlfriend or boyfriend. They always have several, and frequently many. It's the way things work. Trust me. BROKE is probably putting up with this sh-t because he doesn't see another girl in his future. But she's out there, BROKE, and she's willing to open her legs and her wallet, and not necessarily at the same time.
Posted by Robt Vesco, Jr. on December 23, 2008 at 2:50 PM · Report this
I'll be the first kinkster to note that for some of us consensual choking and hair-pulling is damn-fine fun... *swoon*
Posted by Bec on December 23, 2008 at 4:12 PM · Report this
Once again you got it wrong, Dan. As a gay man you probably don't appreciate the fact that almost all young straight women go through a phase where they date cross-dressing men twice their age. It's just one of those harmless things, like how they all wanted ponies when they were girls.
Posted by haha on December 23, 2008 at 4:21 PM · Report this
Hey, Dan-

Fancy including a link to those studies? I want to link my pro-abstinence sex ed family members to the academic sites (and read the studies myself). And I have to say, I laughed out loud at the 'preserving the shit out of my boyfriend's virginity' paragraph. Brilliant.

@ 7: there are plenty of people out there stupid enough to put up with abusive relationships. What I DON'T get is how someone who's been reading SL for the past 7 years can be. I don't know if any of them are fakes necessarily, but the solution to all of them is an obvious DTMFA. How many long-time Savage Love readers can be that deeply in denial?
Posted by Alyssa on December 23, 2008 at 4:39 PM · Report this
Uhm...sometimes people are RIGHTFULLY afraid to leave and not stupid. The real stupid person is the abuser, not the victim. Please, dont get it twisted.

Did you ever notice how women are often killed by EX husbands, lovers, boyfriends and generally jilted men. She may be scared that if she leaves she will face MORE violence and there is a good chance that she's right.

Please if you are leaving an abusive person, call a hotline and find a safe place to go. Inform your work not to let this person in. Alert the authorities if necessary.
Posted by Papayas on December 23, 2008 at 6:52 PM · Report this
Yeah, but "haha", as a chick who's dated men twice my age, (and LIKED IT!) I can tell you its never a natural "phase" for women to date ABUSIVE men. EVen if he is a crossdresser, he has a certain mental level of power over her since he is 20 years older, and 99% of men have real physical power over women because they are so much stronger. To abuse this power in ANY way is absolutely unacceptable. If a man EVER laid a hand on me in anything other than an affectionate way, not only would I dump him, I'd probably call the cops. If she is so insecure or inexperienced that she cant do that, she needs guidance, not the suggestion that this is normal! Its never normal or right for a girl to be with an abusive man. EVER. Anyone who suggests this is either being abused....or an abuser. Watch yourself!
Posted by vitamins on December 23, 2008 at 7:36 PM · Report this
Dan. Why did you use "retarded" as a put down last week. Please explain.
Posted by norseman on December 23, 2008 at 8:11 PM · Report this
DTMFA is perfect advice to all of them, and I really hope BROKE takes it to heart. Tons of spoiled brats are "otherwise sweet and attractive." If that dumbass girlfriend of his wants to date money, she should go find herself another rich, patriarchal snob.
Posted by Neptune on December 23, 2008 at 8:34 PM · Report this
I thought DTMFA stood for "dump that mother fucking asshole", Dan. Oops, my bad.
Posted by anonomous on December 23, 2008 at 9:31 PM · Report this
"Under duress" - WTF? You mean someone kidnapped your dog and threatened to kill it unless you had sex with a woman? Or held a gun directly to your head and said, "Do it!"? Because if not, and if you weren't raped, then you didn't have sex "under duress." You just gave in to peer pressure, asshole.
Posted by Getting sick of the misogny on December 23, 2008 at 10:27 PM · Report this
God, I hate women like BROKE's girlfriend. They never grow up, they leech off of daddy's money forever. Believe me I've met one--41 years old and daddy pays for everything. As far as Rick Warren goes, well it's Obama's lame attempt to "reach across party/ideological lines". Blah, blah. I never bought into Obama's rockstar image. He's just another spineless Democrat who's wasting his time pandering to a political base that won't support him in the future. I guess the gay community is finding out what it's like to be in organized labor--after supporting and bankrolling his campaign you get ignored--until it's time for reelection, of course when they go back to their base and make a bunch of empty promises. The Democrats are like a bunch of emotionally abusive boyfriends/girlfriends who cheat on you repeatedly and then ask for forgiveness over and over.
Posted by cynical on December 23, 2008 at 11:49 PM · Report this
vitamins: I think "haha" was being sarcastic about that "phase".

Getting sick of the misogny is "sick of the misogyny"? Oh right I forgot that men can't ever, ever be raped and therefore saying anything that can be interpreted as "raped" is against /women/; clearly and only /women/.
Let's not forget that the majority of /rape/ doesn't even take place under "duress", either. At least, if we go by your definition, the only women [again, only women get raped!] who are ever raped are those who are victims of violent rape. I mean, if no one kidnaps your dog or holds a knife to you, it's not rape, right?!

Insert a picture of me rolling my eyes plz.
Posted by a.james on December 24, 2008 at 1:15 AM · Report this
"But I haven't been sodomizing the boyfriend all these years! I've been preserving his virginity."

BEST LINE EVER written by danny boy.

Posted by Quinn Stillman on December 24, 2008 at 2:28 AM · Report this
Dan, I love your column but why are these losers asking you for relationship advice? What happened to all the kinksters? Those are the people who need your stellar advice!
Posted by chibibe on December 24, 2008 at 7:51 AM · Report this
that's a joke, right haha? cause this girl never wanted a pony and certainly never wanted to date a cross dresser! duh!
Posted by kes on December 24, 2008 at 7:51 AM · Report this
Off-topic, but are there any other Prop 8 contributors who have not gotten any kind of response to their questions yet? (I am not the same person who commented last week). I have sent 3 e-mails from 2 different e-mail accounts over the course of the past 2+ months, with no communication back.
Posted by patient but feeling blown off on December 24, 2008 at 7:52 AM · Report this
I think it's sad that Dems felt they had to back off Sarah Palin for her daughter's illegitimate pregnancy. It's a fair topic since Palin opposed sex-ed in favor of abstinence education. Which Palin should know doesn't work since she was not married when she conceived Bristol Palin. Ironic.
Posted by Straight but not stupid on December 24, 2008 at 8:10 AM · Report this
Nice Dan. I should add for BATW that staying with him because you like his daughter is the exact same thing as having a kid to fix a marriage. It's sad to have to kick out the father, but you cannot marry him, BATW, or he will make you as miserable as the daughter makes you happy, and, if you can't marry him, then he can take his daughter away from you anyway anytime he feels your "jealousy" is a problem. DTMF now while you still have time to find a great man who wants to father your second kid (you're only 34, honey!) and hope Mr. "You're Just Jealous" gets his shit together when he has to pay for the baby food himself and lets his daughter see the only mother she's ever known.

As for BROKE, I agree with Dan, but only because she won't have sex with you unless you pay. It sounds like she's just in it for another daddy figure who treats her. If that weren't the case, though, I would say she just doesn't know better, and I'm willing to admit the chance that that's the case, and, if so, your relationship should be strong enough (if she's also everything you say) for you to raise the issue calmly and respectfully and explain why it's so hard for you to pay. Consciousness raising goes a long way, but when she doesn't get it, when she tells you she's "just a traditional girl," tell her that traditional class relations were slavery and traditional gender relations were prostitution. This is YOUR relationship, not Ozzie and Harriet's. She free to try and break them up if that's what she wants, but, if not, she's gotta figure out how a relationship with YOU works, and it ain't the way she's been doing it, otherwise you're going to be broke and horny. If she still doesn't get it together, DTMF!
Posted by bb on December 24, 2008 at 8:14 AM · Report this
Great column Dan! A week devoted to DTMFA letters doesn't upset me... actually, it makes me feel much better about my own relationship, so thanks!

And the anti-abstinence only rants are fine too. Everyone needs to blow off steam from time to time and you're only saying what millions of us are thinking as well.

I hope the abstinence only sex ed keeps going for a nice 15 to 20 years still until it becomes painfully clear to even the most religious right of the religious right that it's an utter failure.
Posted by Urgutha Forka on December 24, 2008 at 9:06 AM · Report this
merry christmas Dan and happy Obama new year, even if rick warren is his new BF.
Posted by oolongtee on December 24, 2008 at 9:38 AM · Report this
Isnt it funny how the idiots that teach abstinence only are the ones that are reproducing like rabbits, leaving the informed sex-ed kids to play with their condoms and rob the earth of their genes? At this point I'm all for china's route of the "one child per household" rule, because these fucking idiot christians cant be trusted with their own genitals. Frankly I am terrified that the nascar nation is vastly outpacing the educated in terms of birth rate.
Posted by vitamins on December 24, 2008 at 10:08 AM · Report this
yeah that last letter sounds like a fake.
Posted by peg on December 24, 2008 at 12:38 PM · Report this
I think broke should put it in her ass preferably without grease, little rich spoil girls like that would be nuts about new and exciting stuff like that
Posted by pat on December 24, 2008 at 2:08 PM · Report this
a james,

whoa, get a grip. I don't think she (I'm assuming it was a "she") meant that men can never be raped, only that she didn't think that Dan was. And I gotta say, I didn't get that impression either. Doesn't mean other men haven't been raped, or raped by women, although, let's face it, it is pretty darn rare.

And, "the majority of /rape/ doesn't even take place under "duress", either" Huh? waht does that mean, exactly? "rape" does indeed mean duress, whether man or woman. What makes you think most reported rapes (is that what you meant?) aren't really rapes?

There is also harrassment and various kinds of pressure, which I agree are not rape (that doesn't mean they are fine and dandy, though.) Maybe you are assuming that rape is stranger-in-an-alley rape, and date rape is only getting tipsy and asking again and agian until they say yes? because that is not true either. Date rape and acquiantance rape and marital rape include physical force or threat. Sorry to be the one break it to you, but this really does happen. And it is more likely underreported than overreported.

Pat -- talking about mysogyny....

so, being a spoiled brat means you should be sexually abused? That creeps me the fuck out. Partly because the idea of using a sex act as a punishment is totally creepy, no matter what the person has done to deserve it. Partly because, hinting for expensive gifts and using sex as pressure to get what you want, while dispicable, is not the worst thing a bf/gf can do. Even being rich isn't exactly unforgivable. Seriously, of the 3 letters here, that is the one you feel merits painful-sex-as-punishment? Ugh.

Posted by mjd64 on December 24, 2008 at 6:22 PM · Report this
Not sure if the last letter was "can't figure out what to do" or Can't figure out how to leave." Leaving abusive relationships can be DANGEROUS.

Also, lots of times whe things start out nice and the abuse creeps in gradually, people really do not realize they are being abused, even if they read SL.
Posted by mjd64 on December 24, 2008 at 6:27 PM · Report this
DTMFA-A-Thoner's: I am really amazed that you all are writing to a columnist for advice on your inconsiderate, selfish, disrespectful, unappreciative, so called "partners" that you love and are "suppose" to love you?

1. Your bf is a "MAJOR LOSER": he's a 32yr old w/a 2yr old and doesn't support the kid cause he has NO JOB! He probably was/still is a crack head along w/ his baby mom! Don't be even STUPIDER than your being staying with him and then trying to have a kid by that low life!

2. Your gf will eventually DUMP you for someone that can put out financially! You might be the nicest guy on earth but that won't suffice for a "SPOILED BRAT" that mommy/daddy supports. If you struggle & she doesn't give any affection to you till you buy her something.."HELLO DUMB ASS SHE DOESN'T LOVE YOU"!!

3. "LOVE DOESN'T HURT" unless it's in the "bed"(if you understand). The next time he chokes you or pulls your hair call 9-1-1..didn't you learn that in school? graduated only 2 years ago. Abuse will break you down physically then will ruin you mentally and it'll take years before you'll healed. Every hit and every put down will take a little part of "you"'ll never be the same person you are's up to you to make the change and put it to an end.
Posted by Hmmm???? on December 24, 2008 at 8:05 PM · Report this
Hey, Obama: DTMFRWA (Rick Warren)
Posted by Ralph on December 24, 2008 at 9:47 PM · Report this

WAS---listen, PLEASE listen to Dan, and DTMFA!!!
Posted by A Woman on December 25, 2008 at 2:39 AM · Report this
p.s. to WAS: Dan's right of course. And if you want support making a decision or help planning to safely end the relationship, you can call the northwest network for free and confidential support.
Posted by abc on December 25, 2008 at 3:00 AM · Report this
Great column as always Dan, but all seriousness aside, i gotta say Thank God for abstinence only education. the first ass i ever had was "saving herself" for her future husband.
Posted by fucking for verginity on December 25, 2008 at 4:48 AM · Report this
Dan Savage is awesome. The bandwagon, I'm on it.
Posted by Johnny D. from Canada on December 25, 2008 at 8:53 AM · Report this
Oh if only there was a crossdresser out there pour moi!
Posted by Mistress.Catkin on December 25, 2008 at 11:14 AM · Report this
SO Dan, I am picturing you and the virginal boyfriend and a few dozen other virginal queer couples sitting in the front row at Obama's inauguarion. I am picturing a big smooch-in with middle fingers raised right during the invocation.

Back this up with some nice established queer couple having dialogue w both Obama and Warren about how they love their partners exactly the same way Barack loves Michelle and Warren presumably loves his wife.
Posted by zzz on December 25, 2008 at 8:06 PM · Report this
And another thing:

DTMFA is so obvious in all these cases that it is kind of beside the point. How DO people get to these points in the first place?

The first chick should NOT get preganat with this guy's child. Yeah, yeah, of course not. If she is worried about his little girl, what are Daddy's warrants for? The first chick should NOT be subsidizing Daddy's freeloader lifestyle but if she is worried about the little girl with the crack head mother while Daddy deals with his warrants she might want to check with a social service agency about foster parenting issues. It wouldn't be her own bio kid, but if she is worried about her....

BROKE needs to let someone else be a boytoy to his princess and find someone who will treat him like real human being.

And I agree with the posters who think the third letter writer probably needs professional help dealing with her situation.
Posted by zzz on December 25, 2008 at 8:16 PM · Report this
Maybe het anal sex amongst teens has increased as a result of abstinence ed over the last decade but it did happen back in the old days. It was a way to avoid wearing a condom and/or pregnancy, or so that was the theory, as I recall. Just for the record.
Posted by McLuvin on December 25, 2008 at 10:46 PM · Report this
These letters are amazing.

Dear Dan,

I'm a 35 year old straight woman who's been dating a man for the past three years during which time he has never held or looked for a job. I fear the only reason he stays with me is because I pay for all of his expenses because of all the times he's said, "The only reason I stay with you is because you pay for all my expenses." He's loud and boorish in pubilc, shouting racial epithets at any minority and groping me incessently. He once killed my dog for wagging his tail, threw the corpse on the front porch, laughed at me when I burst into tears and posted footage of the whole episode on YouTube. My family, friends, co-workers, priest and members of the local press have all begged me to break up with him. What do you think I should do?

A Real Dilemma
Posted by Wacky Doodle on December 26, 2008 at 12:40 AM · Report this
Dan, sorry to hear about your trauma (vag. sex), but you seem to have recovered nicely!

Concerning the letters--Sometimes abuse sneaks up on you--you think at first that he's just a dominant, assertive guy who knows what he wants, but then it gradually turns ugly. I guess the lesson is, you have to be assertive from the start and not put up with any shit. And keep your perspective. No one is worth any amount of verbal mental or physical abuse. Mutual Respect is the absolute minimum for a relationship or friendship.
Posted by rayy on December 26, 2008 at 9:38 AM · Report this
All of these writers are fucking idiots! Man refusing to work - Next! Spoiled Girlfriend only affectionate after money is spent - Next! Dating anyone who physically and psychologically abuses you - BIG Next! Sheesh!
Posted by Jon on December 26, 2008 at 10:01 AM · Report this
Dan..please stop using the word Fuck so much. It may be hip in your circles but it is vulgar and becomes tiresome very quickly. You can get your point across with a little more class...please.
Posted by Jason on December 26, 2008 at 10:42 AM · Report this
The whole anal-first thing is standard practice among many Middle Eastern peoples, for the virginity preservation motive. God knows why, since you can "restore" virginity in Cairo for a couple of hundred bucks (flap of skin stitched across the vag and an optional capsule of theatrical blood for dramatic wedding night effect). But yeah, I have even western educated, western raised Arab female friends who took the brown for years until they they finally potted the pink.
Posted by bemused on December 26, 2008 at 12:36 PM · Report this
I hear you, but the DTMFA letters are pretty entertaining. Maybe you could run a web extra that is just a bunch of letters deserving a DTMFA, and no response from you.

Actually, maybe you should turn it into an RSS feed. It could grow forever. Anytime you read a DTMFA letter, you append it to the DTMFA feed. People who enjoy the DTMFA letters can get their fix (for that matter, maybe you should create these kinds of feeds for other letter categories that do require responses, say LGBT letters, no-sex marriage letters, kink letters, and so on.)
Posted by Chris J. on December 26, 2008 at 1:27 PM · Report this
Dan-- I my boyfriend and I adore you and your column/podcasts. Write more books--perhaps a DTMFA collection?
Posted by littlebluesue on December 26, 2008 at 4:38 PM · Report this
ALSO BATW, you already have a baby--he's that freeloader eating cheetos on your couch.
Posted by littlebluesue on December 26, 2008 at 4:40 PM · Report this
Um, Bec, that may be true (for you, no "breath-play" for me, thanks), but you know, someone describing their violent relationship is not really the time to start raving about how teh k1nk gets you off.
Posted by Trix on December 26, 2008 at 9:19 PM · Report this
Thanks for saying what DTMFA means. All these years I thought it meant Dump The MotherFucking Asshole.
Posted by athEIst on December 26, 2008 at 9:23 PM · Report this
Dan, why are you hosting an inaugration party when obama is insulting all of us who support gay rights at said inaugration?? I'm not celebrating .
Posted by acuteally on December 26, 2008 at 11:40 PM · Report this
Dan, I'll let you have this one ... but seriously, stop using your advice column to "vent" about gay issues. It's beyond annoying. Sorry, but trying to persuade more straight people to accept "butt sex" is not going to make more straight people accept homosexuals. Gay is fine for you and for anybody who chooses it, but "going brown" is not cool or normal.

Stick to the questions you're asked and let go of the personal agenda.
Posted by Sara on December 26, 2008 at 11:57 PM · Report this
DTMFA a thon rox
Posted by seattle aight on December 27, 2008 at 1:26 AM · Report this
I don't think BROKE's real dilemma was addressed. Sure the girl is a whore, and living with her will be a never ending PITA, but let's not forget that her daddy is rich. So he is asking how does he get through the current financial situation into alimony nirvana?
Posted by Display Name on December 27, 2008 at 10:14 AM · Report this
I don't think BROKE's real dilemma was addressed. Sure the girl is a whore, and living with her will be a never ending PITA, but let's not forget that her daddy is rich. So he is asking how does he get through the current financial situation into alimony nirvana?
Posted by Display Name on December 27, 2008 at 10:14 AM · Report this
BATW means?
Posted by Kate on December 27, 2008 at 4:07 PM · Report this
A high-maintenance beauty doesn't come cheap. And plenty of men are willing to pony up the necessary dough to be seen with such a woman. If BROKE wants to date a woman with stylish clothes, a nice manicure, and salon styled hair, etc. - he better get used to paying for it.
Posted by don't playa hate on December 27, 2008 at 9:04 PM · Report this
Dear Sara- Look, if this column had on its agenda the cause of getting more people to accept (not to mention practice) "butt sex" it would probably not be referred to as "going brown," you think?! I'd hazard a guess that the agenda (letters and comment) has more to do w/ exploding preconceptions of "normal" sex like yours. Butt sex, along w/ other assorted kinds of sex, are a given here. Besides, wasn't the example of butt sex used specifically to point out how upside-down stupid are the ideas of "normal" sex advocated by the abstinence sex ed movement? So you don't like it up the butt (me neither)but, really, what does "normal" have to do w/ it?
Posted by McLuvin on December 27, 2008 at 10:20 PM · Report this
Hey everybody: Please don't assume that only dumb people get into — and stuck in — abusive relationships. I'm the overeducated, professional daughter of a feminist, educated, professional woman. I knew better than to get involved with the man I fell in love with, and I knew the signs when our relationship started going into a surprisingly wide gray area. And yet I made all the same internal arguments that you've read in these letters. That's why it's so important to have trusted friends — or sex-advice columnists — to remind you to DTMFA.
Posted by shana cherokee on December 28, 2008 at 9:54 AM · Report this
Another POV on sweet wife was raised with a silver spoon, and ZERO emotional support or affection. For her, affection was given in the form of something bought 'just for her'. THANK GOD she'd had some time to grow and mature before we got together.... but something that BROKE may want to consider is that his GF may still be living with the assumption that her love/affection must be bought.
The only way things could possibly work out in that relationship is for BROKE to try to understand *why* she behaves that way...and for the GF to grow up and see that love can't be paid for in cash.
Posted by bornpoor mtn lesbian on December 28, 2008 at 5:41 PM · Report this
Maybe WAS should take some pics with her dildo up his tranny ass and put them somewhere safe before dumping his violent self. Might come in handy.
Posted by Z on December 29, 2008 at 3:08 AM · Report this
The two things I love the most about this week's column are as follows:

1. The completely offhand mention of BATW's boyfriend's "outstanding warrants". Jer-RY! Jer-RY!


2. That MORE THAN ONE person took seriously a post with the sign-off "haha". Please, don't post until you've had your morning coffee, mmmkay?
Posted by Psyche on December 29, 2008 at 5:34 AM · Report this
I say let Them have virginity for Their own.

They're going to either have to accept marriage equality in some form within our projected lifetimes or They're going to have to do like the FLDS--live in reservations seperate from the sinful worldly world the rest of us call home.

I feel sorry for Them. They've had to accept that the persons of non-white proclivities are in fact human beings, as good as the rest of us. They've had to accept that gay people can't be imprisoned for their gayness. They've had to accept that the Earth is spherical and revolves around the sun.

They're going to have to accept that evolution is more than just a theory. They're going to have to accept reproductive freedom. And They're going to have to accept that gay people are entitled to the same rights as the rest of us.

I say let Them have Their virginity.

Let them define virginity as only the lack of union between cock and pussy. They place some kind of Holy mojo on it. Let Them have it.

It's a pity fuck to make what matters go down that little bit easier.
Posted by Max on December 29, 2008 at 9:44 AM · Report this
Speaking of premarital sex ... Bristol Palin's baby is now 9-11 days overdue, depending on who you heard her due date from. Just one of those interesting little things ...
Posted by Lyra on December 29, 2008 at 9:51 AM · Report this
Bill Maher on abstinence pledges and anal sex:…
Posted by loosenut on December 29, 2008 at 5:38 PM · Report this
Dan, you (correctly) point out each week ways in which your readers should take personal responsibility over their lives and actions, and yet you blame society (and implicitly, religious folk) for the high rates of promiscuity and pregnancy among gay teenagers. These kids don't do anything under duress, unlike teenagers in Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Somalia, and other oppressive societies where teen pregnancy rates are, unsurprisingly, low. And yet you make excuses for the actions of kids living in the free world. If their actions bother you, you should look for the problem somewhere else and stop beating the dead "abstinence ed" horse.

And by your logic, Rush Limbaugh should be exonerated of any allegations of bigotry for his indefensible comments about Obama and other African-Americans. He was under duress from his right-wing listening audience.
Posted by khartoum on December 30, 2008 at 5:33 AM · Report this
Danny baby! I luv your columns & continue to marvel at some of the drudge you have to muddle thru. But in the end (pun) you always have the rite advice!

have a happy one!

Rants, Thoughts & Merde
Posted by NativeNYker on December 30, 2008 at 7:17 AM · Report this
Dear Sara, I am a straight man, and while I'm sad to say anal sex isn't on the menu as often as I'd like, it's definitely a lot of fun and can be very rewarding if she's into it. So, to sum up: it ought to be normal and it definitely is cool.
Posted by bff (butt-fucker forever) on December 30, 2008 at 10:48 AM · Report this
According to your statistics, Sarah Palin's daughter is probably gay. Wow! That's even more ironic than a kid that was only taught abstinence as birth control getting knocked up.
Posted by 1AngryB on December 30, 2008 at 2:55 PM · Report this
Hi Dan. Just wanted to say that BROKE's letter reminded me of radio personality/columnist Marc Rudov - not a nice guy, mind you, just an investment banker who often complains about women who always expect men to pay more than half the time - and the women are often rich! I suspect this problem is more common when the man actually has a good job, just as male celebrities complain they can't find any non-golddiggers. But yes, there ARE women who know their manners, do the inviting and paying half the time, and don't "demand" presents.
Posted by lenona on December 30, 2008 at 3:23 PM · Report this
Here's a link to the British Columbia study of pregnant queers:…
Posted by Larry-bob on December 30, 2008 at 3:31 PM · Report this
Unfortunately, I've seen many girls like WAS in my emergency room, so I believe that the last letter is probably real.

"Choking" is something that one does when an object gets stuck in one's throat. What her boyfriend is doing is STRANGLING her, and it's surprisingly easy to crush someone's windpipe when angry.
Posted by Currer813 on December 30, 2008 at 6:47 PM · Report this
i can cuss like a truck driver, but i'd agree about the language. when it's printed/part of a publication it just seems especially class-less...i guess it's about different standards. and, although it's silly to say it's "hip in your (dan's) circles," i do wonder: who are you trying to impress or rein in? there will always be an abundance of fags, groupies, and sexually-stunted individuals to worship you--not a gripe, but here's one: i've sent several genuine letters, as much as the next asshole--none of which have been answered. who picks the letters you answer? it can't possibly be you, because they're so awful and trite and ridiculous and did i mention BORING. a fratty mcfrat frat might say something like, "STEP YOUR GAME UP," dan.
Posted by oh_hai. on December 31, 2008 at 1:39 AM · Report this
Dan Savage, you make me smile
Posted by becc on January 3, 2009 at 10:33 AM · Report this
about that last letter : perhaps at the back of her mind she kind of thinks that she actually deserves it? otherwise, why would she still ask? maybe she should evaluate herself?
Posted by zfamme on January 5, 2009 at 6:10 AM · Report this
"All my life I've had to listen to fundamentalist Christian bigots like Pat Robertson and Rick Warren—Rick Warren, Obama?—fume..."

Good, maybe you can refocus your resentment for Obama's 'betrayal' of progressive values on the candidate himself and not his entire 'race'.…

I dont suppose youve read the new figures for Black votes on Prop 8, or more importantly, found the moral courage to admit you were wrong in your attacks and apologize.
Posted by Still Bitter Over Dan's Blind(to the facts) Attack on January 7, 2009 at 11:43 AM · Report this
I have agree with Rob - there's always another one, provided you have your own shit straight. As long as they feel there's something worthwhile within you, they'll keep coming.
Posted by Joel W. on January 7, 2009 at 6:26 PM · Report this
I want to see another column where Dan presents fake letters and explains how he knows it right off. Some are blatantly fake, but Dan must also receive some well-crafted fakes.
Posted by drunk in montreal on January 8, 2009 at 12:41 PM · Report this
It was over 40 years ago that the biologist/population expert Garrett Hardin wrote that "virtue is one of the causes of unwanted pregnancy".

He theorized when young people are taught that "only bad girls do it" then they won't use or have on hand birth control, because to have it on hand means you were planning to do it, which means you're a slut. But if you don't have it or use it, then you weren't planning it, then it "just happened" and you're still a good girl.

Sounds like this sort of brain dead excuse for thought continues today with the added threat of STD's ! Abstinence education? Hardin could have told you 40 years ago that it was a bad idea.
Posted by Bonedoctor on January 11, 2009 at 11:04 AM · Report this
Posted by Justice on January 15, 2009 at 7:38 PM · Report this
I'm from Malaysia, a country with first world infrastructure but with third world mentality. Over here butt sex is on the increase too. Guys hit on naive young girls by telling them butt sex is the way to go to avoid pregnancies and getting their vagina all stretched out so their future husbands won't dump them like hot potatoes. Me is one of them. First I got finger banged. Then he shoved the rounded end of a plastic spoon handle into my ass. Now its pure rock hard cock all the way. The thing is its fucking pleasurable too.
Posted by Chrissie on January 28, 2009 at 3:45 PM · Report this
"But until the boyfriend meets the right girl, I'm going to keep preserving the living shit out of his virginity. His virginity isn't going anywhere—not on my watch."

really? I love you. so much <3 the world needs more Dan Savages. that was a totally misplaced rant that veered so far off course i forgot where we started. awesome. just awesome.
Posted by Wicked on April 2, 2009 at 6:46 PM · Report this
I don't know about anyone else but this line made my radar go on:

"I'm 20 now and dating a 41-year-old crossdresser. We were friends for six months before he told me he wouldn't be able to spend time with me anymore unless we "got closer."

My first thought was "control freak." He's 41 and she's 20. He's a predator looking for someone to control and now, to abuse.
Before anyone jumps on the "20 year olds can know themselves, blah, blah, blah" yea, I was 20 once too but that isn't the point.
It is the wording and the controlling aspect of "I can't spend any time with you unless we "get closer." She knew it as well or she wouldn't have emphasised the words.
He sought her out and has been "grooming" her for the inevitable (in his mind) controlling, abusive thing he needs help with.

As for #9, I can't believe no one else picked up on it:
"I'll be the first kinkster to note that for some of us consensual choking and hair-pulling is damn-fine fun... *swoon*

Hey, way to throw a confusing message into the mix for a 20 year old, let's face it, girl, who sounds like she is VERY unclear on what "consensual" even means.
Honey, you're either part of the problem or part of the solution and you've chosen to be part of the problem.
The 20 year old is being sucked in by a creepy old guy who needs to get his ass to the nearest therapist and sort that fucked up head of his out.
The girl can either learn from this (then again, if she's with some guy who is using his sexuality for manipulation anyway, then she's probably just as screwed up in the head and most likely "attracted" him anyway) or she can choose to continue her "abusee" pattern.
We can only hope for her that she chooses to learn from the experience and get some help as to why she doesn't have boundaries.
Does she think that a creepy old 41 year old is "all she can get?" (And, yes, folks, I am older than that but when I was 20, you're damned right that 41 is old!)
Why was she so concerned about losing this creep anyway? That whole, "unless we get closer" thing is manipulation on the highest scale and now, she KNOWS that it is leading to a very dark and bad place and her confidence has been eroded.
Posted by Frederica Bimble on February 12, 2011 at 4:33 AM · Report this

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