December 9, 2008
You Bikers Get off My Roads!
The Seattle Times' Insane Proposal to Tax Cyclists
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Greg Stump
An argument from www.thestranger.com that you might have missed.
Editorial page editor James Vesely, a resident of Mercer Island, argued in the Seattle Times on Sunday, December 7, that the City of Seattle ought to tax cyclists for the privilege of using streets they already pay for.
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"A $25 annual fee for owning a bike is a natural outgrowth of the enormous amounts of trails, lanes, and accommodations the region has made to cyclists," Vesely wrote. "It would also make cyclists true members of the world of transportation, rather than free riders on the tax rolls."
That's pretty rich coming from a guy whose editorial page has made a decadeslong crusade of fighting against estate taxes on the very wealthy—and whose own industry is exempt from Washington State's sales tax (which, incidentally, people who buy bikes and cycling gear have to pay).
Vesely continues: "Special licenses are not new. We license dogs, our cars, our boats, our motorcycles, our pleasures in hunting and fishing, as well as many other outdoor activities. Cyclists, known for their community spirit and exalted senses of self, should welcome this opportunity to help government support their activities."
That's the kind of sentence that can only be written by someone who's disingenuous or ill informed or both. Driving—unlike owning a dog or a fishing rod—is one of the most heavily subsidized activities humans do. Every year, the U.S. government spends more than $100 billion to subsidize driving above and beyond what drivers spend on gas taxes, cars, sales tax, and license plates. Those expenses come out of all of our pockets—including those of us who never get behind the wheel of a car. As a cyclist, I'm subsidizing Vesely, not the other way around.
And that's not even counting the externalities like pollution, the increased cost of health care due to auto accidents, sub-market-rate parking provided by cities, and military spending to protect our access to cheap oil. Not to mention the fact that one cyclist on the Burke-Gilman Trail is one fewer car on the road. That's something auto-bound dinosaurs like Vesely ought to appreciate but don't. We cyclists don't need another "opportunity to help government support" things like striping bike lanes and building cycling paths—we're already paying for all those things and then some.
But Vesely turns this logic inside out, arguing that the presence of a few bike lanes indicates "a remarkable generosity on the part of Puget Sound taxpayers"—by which, of course, he means drivers. "Whenever new transportation projects are studied, bike lanes are as automatic as white striping."
Road projects in Seattle do often include new bike lanes. You know why? In 2006, voters here decided to pay for a property-tax increase that includes the requirement that, wherever possible, road projects include new bike and pedestrian facilities. Every single resident of Seattle pays this tax, either directly (property owners) or indirectly (renters). You don't get an exemption if you don't own a car. And striping bike lanes, I shouldn't have to add, is a hell of a lot cheaper than filling potholes and building sidewalks. By Vesely's logic, pedestrians should have to pay a special tax to use the sidewalks—after all, why should we let walkers cadge that part of the public right-of-way for "free"?
Fundamentally, Vesely's view—that a few bike lanes and
sharrows constitute "enormous accommodations" for
cyclists—assumes that drivers own the roads, and cyclists are
lucky if they deign to "accommodate" us. Fortunately, the Seattle City
Council—that group that Vesely says doesn't have the "guts" to
make cyclists pay an extra tax—understands that the more cyclists
there are on the road, the better the roads work for everyone, not just
those of us on two wheels. 
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1
Great article. Clearly and logically dissects and exposes the rotten, self-serving attitudes of the out-of-touch car fetishists (make that fetishits). Licencing fees? Cyclists should get tax credits, if anything.
2
You're kidding me. THIS is the letters to the editor? ECB, your stupidity and your ego know no bounds.
3
Bikers indeed do subsidize drivers, but drivers through the means of commuting to work, commercial truckers, waste removal vehicles, & buses add far more value to society than the population of bikers ever will. Last I checked nobody riding a bike delivered my mail, removed my trash, moved thousands of people to their place of work, or transfered my food to the grocery store.
So the fact is Bikers do help society, but only in minor increments of withholding polution from the air when you commute.
Lastly, your arguments are accurate, but all they really show is that car drivers should pay more in taxes - not that a specialty activity shouldn't be taxed at all.
So the fact is Bikers do help society, but only in minor increments of withholding polution from the air when you commute.
Lastly, your arguments are accurate, but all they really show is that car drivers should pay more in taxes - not that a specialty activity shouldn't be taxed at all.
4
@2
Wow, you really don't realize that it's your post which suggests "your stupidity and your ego know no bounds."
Wow, you really don't realize that it's your post which suggests "your stupidity and your ego know no bounds."
5
i'm not saying i agree wholly with Vesely, but this anti-driver rhetoric is just as narrow minded as the arguments of those like Vesely. if cyclists want the same road rights as cars they should be open minded to those they share the road with. comprimise could be reached if both sides weren't so intolerant.
6
@4 A converted Slog post by an editor is not a Letter TO the Editor. It is, and remains, an uninformed editorial that doesn't have enough substance to make it into an article.
7
Why is it such a problem to have bikes be licensed? Bike riders act like its a sin. How are police supposed to manage the bad drivers unless they can pull their plate? A small $25.00 fee would allow riders to have a say in things and allow the police to punish those that can't follow the rules of the road.
8
JF,
Bikes do take thousands of Seattlites to work and back every day.
Most car drivers should be walking, riding a bike, or taking public transportation, instead of polluting and endangering (cars badly driven kill a lot of folks young) - at least driving smaller cars that use less gas and put out less crap into the air.
Bikes do take thousands of Seattlites to work and back every day.
Most car drivers should be walking, riding a bike, or taking public transportation, instead of polluting and endangering (cars badly driven kill a lot of folks young) - at least driving smaller cars that use less gas and put out less crap into the air.
9
bleh, The Seattle Times - what can you expect? Their entire editorial department is filled with monkeys chained to typewriters.
11
@Gilbert "A small $25.00 fee would allow riders to have a say in things and allow the police to punish those that can't follow the rules of the road."
Gilbert, I agree with you that there are badly-behaved bikers, just as there are badly-behaved cars, but what is being discussed here is registering *bikes*, not registering bike riders. Vesely's editorial is so badly written that one might conclude that he is advocating registry of either bikes, or riders, or both. But his follow-up editorial makes clear that he only wants to register bikes, not riders.
Nobody I'm aware of registers bike riders, and that isn't going to happen any time soon. Lots of kids ride bikes, for one thing. So what is on the table is a registration program for bikes. This is an idea that has been tried many places, and, AFAIK, has always failed to accomplish anything useful.
Gilbert, I agree with you that there are badly-behaved bikers, just as there are badly-behaved cars, but what is being discussed here is registering *bikes*, not registering bike riders. Vesely's editorial is so badly written that one might conclude that he is advocating registry of either bikes, or riders, or both. But his follow-up editorial makes clear that he only wants to register bikes, not riders.
Nobody I'm aware of registers bike riders, and that isn't going to happen any time soon. Lots of kids ride bikes, for one thing. So what is on the table is a registration program for bikes. This is an idea that has been tried many places, and, AFAIK, has always failed to accomplish anything useful.
12
The bike registration idea is an attempt to "crack down" on cyclists, limit them, and in general make them less of an inconvenience to motorists. Most people want to live in the most convenient world possible, which means driving everywhere. But what happens when everybody starts driving is people get fat, everything gets paved over, pollution increases in our air and water, and everyone gets isolated in their cages. No thanks.
13
Really? There are still people in America who are self-righteous about their cars? And angry at those who ride bikes ON PRINCIPLE? Sure, I know some bike riders a nuisance, but that's true of drivers as well. Who would even contemplate, in this day and age, doing anything to discourage an alternative to driving? I love the West and I plan to move back to the West as soon as I can, but Christ, you'd think "Thou shalt not infringe on the ability to drive cars" was the 11th Commandment of the western United States, right before, "Thou Shalt Not Have Nor Enforce Reasonable Zoning Laws, Lest Our Towns and Cities Look Begin to Look Like Something Other Than a Mix of World War II Era Shacks, Giant Billboards and Soviet Housing Projects, Which Are Beautiful in the Sight of God."
14
I'll say one thing about this fish wrap....it makes me laugh sometimes when I have nothing better to do than visit absurd web sites.
Bikes? Tax 'em. Gov taxes everything else....what is so special about bikes and the elitists who straddle them?
Bikes? Tax 'em. Gov taxes everything else....what is so special about bikes and the elitists who straddle them?
15
I am a driver that has had plenty of frustrating experiences being stuck behind a bicyclist pedaling their ass off to make it up a hill, or wondering if I almost lost my side-mirror as someone rode between my car and the parked cars next to me at a stop light. So I don't consider myself a fanatic bicyclist.
But I sure as hell do respect those that have the will power (not to mention lung power) to cycle themselves to work instead of driving like I do. This editorial is a well-reasoned argument. If anything, we should be giving bicyclists tax breaks to encourage more people to get out of their cars.
I understand drivers that get tired of being verbally attacked because they drive- I've been there, and nothing makes me defensive like being reamed. But seriously, I recognize the damage I do to the environment and to other people's commute time by climbing in my car to go somewhere. Why not recognize and reward the extra effort bicyclists are putting out by pedaling themselves places?
But I sure as hell do respect those that have the will power (not to mention lung power) to cycle themselves to work instead of driving like I do. This editorial is a well-reasoned argument. If anything, we should be giving bicyclists tax breaks to encourage more people to get out of their cars.
I understand drivers that get tired of being verbally attacked because they drive- I've been there, and nothing makes me defensive like being reamed. But seriously, I recognize the damage I do to the environment and to other people's commute time by climbing in my car to go somewhere. Why not recognize and reward the extra effort bicyclists are putting out by pedaling themselves places?
16
RESPECT THE CAR!!!
After all it IS only a 1/2 ton collection of metal rolling down the street. So what if a few thousand pedestrians, bicycles, kids, motorcycles, etc. get in the way. Squish 'em if they get in the way.
Wait a second! Tax kids! That's the answer.
After all it IS only a 1/2 ton collection of metal rolling down the street. So what if a few thousand pedestrians, bicycles, kids, motorcycles, etc. get in the way. Squish 'em if they get in the way.
Wait a second! Tax kids! That's the answer.
17
I'm all for bikers; In my 20's I used to race. Bike riding's low-impact to roads, happy contributions to trees, lack of needed jiffylubes, lowering of health insurance costs, reduced parking lot needs - all great.
That said; I kinda like the idea of more attention on biking. While taxing bikes is stupid (Sales tax already covers it, chief), and tax-crediting is equally stupid (gas tax, tabs, registration, required insurance, and the price of petro all can disappear from your monthly budget when you bike), I can see some way to satiate the car-mongers and also create friendlier relations between the pedal-powered and pedal-stompers. There's this sort of "let's make it an us vs them thing" mentality that Erica unfortunately reinforces here. Do we NEED another dispute / thing to fight over? Let's find middle ground instead.
If you have to tax anything, then tax bike-related spandex that is worn outside of races. Yuck.
Also, police should ticket bikers who a) don't wear helmets b) ride in-lane 10mph below posted speeds c) ride with cigarettes in mouth d) ride and talk on their cell e) ride with iPod in-ear f) run red lights g) ride in-lane when there's a bike lane h) ride tandem bikes (they just piss me off, ok?) i) use lighting systems too dim to be useful j) ride in-lane in snow k) don't use hand signals to announce their intent (to swerve left from the bike lane, for example) and l) don't yield to peds.
Lane splitting I like: it should be legalized for all two-wheel vehicles.
Likewise, car drivers who open doors without checking (that door comes with a mirror, yo) should get hefty fines. As should 1) drivers who splash ped and bikes 2) drivers too arrogant to use a turn signal 3) Drivers that don't slow or yield at BGT crossings 4) cars that actually hit/tap/swipe bikes should be impounded 5) drivers that toss cig butts out the window: that's so 1970's. Woodsy's coming for you.
And, for fuck's sake, triple ticket fines for those bikers that ride around with the helmet hanging off the handbars. That's like Instant Road Rage, regardless of what vehicle I'm using.
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That said; I kinda like the idea of more attention on biking. While taxing bikes is stupid (Sales tax already covers it, chief), and tax-crediting is equally stupid (gas tax, tabs, registration, required insurance, and the price of petro all can disappear from your monthly budget when you bike), I can see some way to satiate the car-mongers and also create friendlier relations between the pedal-powered and pedal-stompers. There's this sort of "let's make it an us vs them thing" mentality that Erica unfortunately reinforces here. Do we NEED another dispute / thing to fight over? Let's find middle ground instead.
If you have to tax anything, then tax bike-related spandex that is worn outside of races. Yuck.
Also, police should ticket bikers who a) don't wear helmets b) ride in-lane 10mph below posted speeds c) ride with cigarettes in mouth d) ride and talk on their cell e) ride with iPod in-ear f) run red lights g) ride in-lane when there's a bike lane h) ride tandem bikes (they just piss me off, ok?) i) use lighting systems too dim to be useful j) ride in-lane in snow k) don't use hand signals to announce their intent (to swerve left from the bike lane, for example) and l) don't yield to peds.
Lane splitting I like: it should be legalized for all two-wheel vehicles.
Likewise, car drivers who open doors without checking (that door comes with a mirror, yo) should get hefty fines. As should 1) drivers who splash ped and bikes 2) drivers too arrogant to use a turn signal 3) Drivers that don't slow or yield at BGT crossings 4) cars that actually hit/tap/swipe bikes should be impounded 5) drivers that toss cig butts out the window: that's so 1970's. Woodsy's coming for you.
And, for fuck's sake, triple ticket fines for those bikers that ride around with the helmet hanging off the handbars. That's like Instant Road Rage, regardless of what vehicle I'm using.
18
A special $25 license tax/fee would probably cost more to administer and enforce than $25/licensee.
We the people would end up paying money that would almost entirely be used to hassle people, not to provide anything of value.
Might as well tax people to pay workers who are in thrall to tyrannical managers who force them to come piss on your home and property. No, wait, there's an actual market for that service from piss fetishists.
Any law that by nature primarily produces hassle and suffering should be abolished. And the proponents should move to their own special little country where they could ruin themselves and each other.
We the people would end up paying money that would almost entirely be used to hassle people, not to provide anything of value.
Might as well tax people to pay workers who are in thrall to tyrannical managers who force them to come piss on your home and property. No, wait, there's an actual market for that service from piss fetishists.
Any law that by nature primarily produces hassle and suffering should be abolished. And the proponents should move to their own special little country where they could ruin themselves and each other.
19
if it were a carbon tax being discussed the times would be railing against the big government anti freedom agenda sponsored by the radical enviros. but since it's a tax on bikes, it gets the nod.
by the way... when conlin was pitching that mentioned property tax levy before the vote he distributed maps that identified ne65th as a bike route slated for improvements - well we still don't even have a stripe let alone those stupid ass useless little bike icons painted on the road!!!
by the way... when conlin was pitching that mentioned property tax levy before the vote he distributed maps that identified ne65th as a bike route slated for improvements - well we still don't even have a stripe let alone those stupid ass useless little bike icons painted on the road!!!
20
I would never pay this bike tax, even if they wrote it into law.
I also never licensed my dog of 12 years.
try and catch me fat copper.
I also never licensed my dog of 12 years.
try and catch me fat copper.
21
Wow, that is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard...I am a cyclist and I pay taxes just like those on the road. We are trying to encourage more people to bike to stop all the traffic and pollution and that idea is just another wrench in that plan. I agree that bicyclists should be GIVEN tax credits instead of paying more... As for special bike trails etc. That's no different from creating a new walking path - they are there for entertainment. I am going to start taxing you every time you swerve into the bike lane... or everytime a car parks in the bike lane... COME ON. My feelings are that this is absolutely absurd.
22
Side note to cyclists: don't disparage people who don't ride bikes. I would love to ride a bike, but my physical therapist has recommended against it and I have this weird compulsion to not be in excruciating pain. I've actually been criticized by cyclists for taking the bus rather than riding a bike for my 4 mile trip to work.
23
Don't a lot of people own both a car and a bike?
Should an 8 year old buy a license to ride around a cul-de-sac when mom and dad also own 2 cars?
What about the Mexican dudes who work in kitchens? Is this a new excuse for the cops to hassle them? Or me, since I'm not local, or anyone, just because they need to check whether you have this "license"
Should an 8 year old buy a license to ride around a cul-de-sac when mom and dad also own 2 cars?
What about the Mexican dudes who work in kitchens? Is this a new excuse for the cops to hassle them? Or me, since I'm not local, or anyone, just because they need to check whether you have this "license"
24
Both cars and bicycles have their uses. I've tried using both on the snow and ice this week. They both suck.
Regardless of that, yes trucks are good for hauling things like wholesale foodstuffs and bulky ass shit. I should know: I drive a box truck for work.
And buses and trains are awesome at moving lots of people and keeping the roads clear for those commercial vehicles (and if any of your holiday packages are late, blame car commuters, please. Trust me on this one).
And bikes are terrific for commuting independently, having fun, getting out, staying healthy, and avoiding the risk of a DUI (I know the last one's not exactly smart, but it's pretty effective).
And yes, we all -every single goddamned one of us who pays rent or a mortgage in Seattle- pay the taxes for those roads that accommodate cars, motorcycles, public transit, and bicycles.
And most bike owners own cars, so they're already paying "special license fees".
And many of us do in fact own property and pay the taxes on that. Even those of us with no children who pay for the public education of the offspring of breeding car commuters. And that's fine because it's an investment in the future of the American people and the Human Race.
My point is this: without any sort of welfare system or sense of community across these minor lines of distinction, the citizens of this or any government are in deep shit. We all do our part. Our wonderful, sometimes frustrating system of government guarantees that to at least a small degree. Bitch all you want about not reaping the benefits of the tax dollars that you pay. If it makes you feel better, that's great. Just don't be blind to the fact that you actually are benefiting, though you may not realize it at first glance.
But all in all this (most likely) conservative dude who is probably for less government involvement in our private lives (except in matters of bicycle licensing, and most likely abortion rights and equal marriage rights) from Mercer Island is probably just sick of people from Seattle joyriding their bikes in his neighborhood. Too bad. It's a fun place to ride.
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Regardless of that, yes trucks are good for hauling things like wholesale foodstuffs and bulky ass shit. I should know: I drive a box truck for work.
And buses and trains are awesome at moving lots of people and keeping the roads clear for those commercial vehicles (and if any of your holiday packages are late, blame car commuters, please. Trust me on this one).
And bikes are terrific for commuting independently, having fun, getting out, staying healthy, and avoiding the risk of a DUI (I know the last one's not exactly smart, but it's pretty effective).
And yes, we all -every single goddamned one of us who pays rent or a mortgage in Seattle- pay the taxes for those roads that accommodate cars, motorcycles, public transit, and bicycles.
And most bike owners own cars, so they're already paying "special license fees".
And many of us do in fact own property and pay the taxes on that. Even those of us with no children who pay for the public education of the offspring of breeding car commuters. And that's fine because it's an investment in the future of the American people and the Human Race.
My point is this: without any sort of welfare system or sense of community across these minor lines of distinction, the citizens of this or any government are in deep shit. We all do our part. Our wonderful, sometimes frustrating system of government guarantees that to at least a small degree. Bitch all you want about not reaping the benefits of the tax dollars that you pay. If it makes you feel better, that's great. Just don't be blind to the fact that you actually are benefiting, though you may not realize it at first glance.
But all in all this (most likely) conservative dude who is probably for less government involvement in our private lives (except in matters of bicycle licensing, and most likely abortion rights and equal marriage rights) from Mercer Island is probably just sick of people from Seattle joyriding their bikes in his neighborhood. Too bad. It's a fun place to ride.
25
So by reasoning, if a cyclist rides on the streets AND the sidewalks, can we tax them twice? I love it when cyclists give me a dirty look as they pass me- or even better, run into me- on the sidewalk!
26
I just want a $25 tax on annoying bike fags. You know the ones, the stupid asswipes you see out on the Burke-Gilman on weekends blasting along in groups as if they were in a Tour de France peloton and endangering slower cyclists, joggers, people walking their dogs and everyone else using the trail (Hey fuckheads, it's a general use trail, show some respect to the other users. Anyone riding on a general use trail or city streets with aerobars (This should be a fucking capital offense, you should be able to gun these people down like rabid dogs.) The stupid fucking cyclists you see blasting through stop signs ("Waaahhh, it's hard to slow down and then start up again, I shouldn't have to obey traffic laws", and it was so much fun to see that stupid bitch getting ticketed on the Burke Gilman by the UW the day before Thanksgiving. It made my dick hard, really it did.). The stupid fucking cyclists you see riding without helmets, reflectors, lights or any safety gear at all; all of whom will hopefully die if they're in an accident so we can harvest their organs because otherwise they'll just end up with traumatic brain injuries and costing taxpayers millions in hospital and institutionalization fees. And of course anyone riding a fixie, who should have to pay not only a $25 tax but should also be forced to have "I'm a pretentious fuck of a poseur but unfortunately I don't make enough money to drive a Porsche so I have to ride this shitty bike instead." tattooed on their asses. Oh, and let's tax all of the incredibly self-righteous cyclists out there too, you know, the ones who are just so fucking smug about how they rode their bike to work this morning and are therefore morally superior because they got an aerobic workout and saved the planet. Yeah, tax the living fucking Jesus out those asswipes.
Then after we've taxed all of these people perhaps our feckless county executive, L. Ron Sims, will use the money to fix the Burke Gilman trail, especially the five or so miles between Matthews Beach and Tracey Owen Station which is five miles of spoke popping, rim breaking goodness, and get rid of all of the bollard covers at the intersections (I've been riding the Burke Gilman for 20 years now and I've never seen bollards installed at any of those intersections, so just get rid of the goddamned things already. Of course knowing L. Ron Sims he'll just piss the money away on something fucking stupid like passenger ferry service to Vashon Island.
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Then after we've taxed all of these people perhaps our feckless county executive, L. Ron Sims, will use the money to fix the Burke Gilman trail, especially the five or so miles between Matthews Beach and Tracey Owen Station which is five miles of spoke popping, rim breaking goodness, and get rid of all of the bollard covers at the intersections (I've been riding the Burke Gilman for 20 years now and I've never seen bollards installed at any of those intersections, so just get rid of the goddamned things already. Of course knowing L. Ron Sims he'll just piss the money away on something fucking stupid like passenger ferry service to Vashon Island.
27
Gilbert (@7),
Cyclists are already penalized for disobeying traffic laws. I received a $65 citation for running a stop sign on my bicycle and have learned my lesson.
"When ridden on any roadway a bicycle rider has all of the rights and responsibilities of any vehicle (RCW 46.61.755). Unless bicycles are specifically excepted, all traffic laws and rules apply to bicycles. Bicyclists who violate traffic laws are subject to a citation." http://www.kingcounty.gov/transportation…
Your proposed $25 to have "a say in things" is unclear. Do licensed transportation owners have a say in things?
And to JF @3. Your determination of "value" is skewed. You are comparing cyclists to large scale commercial industry. Compare car and bicycle commuters.
Cyclists are already penalized for disobeying traffic laws. I received a $65 citation for running a stop sign on my bicycle and have learned my lesson.
"When ridden on any roadway a bicycle rider has all of the rights and responsibilities of any vehicle (RCW 46.61.755). Unless bicycles are specifically excepted, all traffic laws and rules apply to bicycles. Bicyclists who violate traffic laws are subject to a citation." http://www.kingcounty.gov/transportation…
Your proposed $25 to have "a say in things" is unclear. Do licensed transportation owners have a say in things?
And to JF @3. Your determination of "value" is skewed. You are comparing cyclists to large scale commercial industry. Compare car and bicycle commuters.
28
Why are those opposed to the view in this article so rude? Suck it up, people, there's two sides to every argument!
29
Hey Vesely- Are YOU taking that unpaid week off demanded of Seattle Times staff? Why don't you just shut the hell up and retire already you hypocrite! It is old fatassed whiners like yourself who are the real burden on this society, being the primary cause of medical cost inflation. Get out of your goddamn gas-guzzler and pay your fair share of taxes for a subway, before Mercer Island gets bulldozed to build Paul Allen's Alcatraz Theme Park...
30
Boy- Seattle sure breeds idiots like Willard breeds rats. All your 'Seattle process' nanny-state regulations conveniently ignore the only important truth: no paper law overrides the laws of physics. Idiots who feel safer riding among 3-ton SUVs because of helmets or painted white lines are Darwin's chosen losers. The crash-test dummies defiantly blocking lanes at 20mph are just as retarded as the cell-phone sucking yuppies who blindly cut them off. And yes, all those fat geeks blabbing while waddling 3-4-5 abreast, arrogantly blocking sidewalks and bike paths everywhere deserve the 50000 Volt taser cattle prod too.
What the selfishly self-righteous egocentrics of Seattle lack is empathy and situational awareness. These people seem to have been bred like mole rats, with no innate ability to look around, perceive changes in their surroundings, or even use peripheral vision. This goes for their behavior whether driving, riding or walking in public spaces: no residual survival awareness whatsoever. If there were still predators, da masses would quickly become an endangered species.
Neither do the clueless bovines
seem to perceive the extent to which they are being herded into an increasingly fenced-in police state already. By the logic of some of the jokers on this page, the cops are entitled to park in your neighborhood and cite you for jaywalking every time you cross a residential street to get your dog away from the neighbors' cat...
Enforcing the letter of the law is neither just nor practical i.e., an observant cyclist who goes through a stop sign where there is 360 degree visibility and no traffic is in no way equivalent to the SUV cell phoney blowing through a downtown red light at 40mph.
What the selfishly self-righteous egocentrics of Seattle lack is empathy and situational awareness. These people seem to have been bred like mole rats, with no innate ability to look around, perceive changes in their surroundings, or even use peripheral vision. This goes for their behavior whether driving, riding or walking in public spaces: no residual survival awareness whatsoever. If there were still predators, da masses would quickly become an endangered species.
Neither do the clueless bovines
seem to perceive the extent to which they are being herded into an increasingly fenced-in police state already. By the logic of some of the jokers on this page, the cops are entitled to park in your neighborhood and cite you for jaywalking every time you cross a residential street to get your dog away from the neighbors' cat...
Enforcing the letter of the law is neither just nor practical i.e., an observant cyclist who goes through a stop sign where there is 360 degree visibility and no traffic is in no way equivalent to the SUV cell phoney blowing through a downtown red light at 40mph.
31
The cost of administrating this tax would far outweigh the benefits. In addition, if a simple sales tax it will simply drive purchasers outside of Seattle, thus severely injuring in-city bike shops. Truly, this is a mind-bogglingly stupid idea trumped up by someone whose real agenda is that he doesn't like cyclists based on the bad behavior of some. It also overlooks the fact that most cyclists who commute by bike also own cars and pay taxes. Creating roads that accomodate multiple uses benefits all.
32
@Erik Nillson
Actually, in many states bike licensing is common. In my county you are required to have a license if you want to ride on public roads. The fee is only $10, but I'd have to do some research to find out exactly where it goes...
Not that I support this Vesely fellow, but I would gladly pay $25 a year if all new roadwork required a bikelane. There are still many places that a car can travel that a bike can't (safely anyhow).
Actually, in many states bike licensing is common. In my county you are required to have a license if you want to ride on public roads. The fee is only $10, but I'd have to do some research to find out exactly where it goes...
Not that I support this Vesely fellow, but I would gladly pay $25 a year if all new roadwork required a bikelane. There are still many places that a car can travel that a bike can't (safely anyhow).
33
Gee, someone should have told me that if I own and ride a bike it means that I don't have to pay taxes and fees for my two cars. What a deal!
34
Here is a related article. cyclists need to share ideas to stop the hatred of cyclists.
http://bikeportland.org/2008/12/10/what-…
http://bikeportland.org/2008/12/10/what-…
36
Good article. I ride almost everywhere, but drive my car if it is necessary because of distance/time or if the cargo won't fit on my rack. The whole "cyclists are freeloaders" argument is so tired and absurdly flawed. But the cyclist/motorist squabble is just fucktarded anyway. Like I need more internal conflict...
37
Terminology quibble: "Bikers" are hairy, unpredictable, tattooed guys on motorcycles.
The good folks whose overdeveloped thighs emanate enough moral superiority to dwarf even that of public-transportation aficionados are "bicyclists." If that's not good enough for them, they should satisfy themselves with a neologism like "bikists."
But until reliable witnesses verify the existence of Spandex-clad 5-speeders who, on a slow night, can smoke a gram of crystal meth, fuck a whore and kick the shit out of a gangbanger, the term "biker" should be reserved strictly for the motorcycle set.
The good folks whose overdeveloped thighs emanate enough moral superiority to dwarf even that of public-transportation aficionados are "bicyclists." If that's not good enough for them, they should satisfy themselves with a neologism like "bikists."
But until reliable witnesses verify the existence of Spandex-clad 5-speeders who, on a slow night, can smoke a gram of crystal meth, fuck a whore and kick the shit out of a gangbanger, the term "biker" should be reserved strictly for the motorcycle set.
38
Truly, at this point, a tax is not a wise move. Even if one were to be put into place later (and I am not for that), it should come later. To do so now is to push an idea that will only hinder the benefits of bicycling. Hell, let's turn the tax thing inside-out-inside-out...bicyclists should receive a tax credit for not driving cars and requiring as much support.
Bike commuting, to the general public, is only recently strong in the interest and media attention. Sure it has been around for decades, pushed forward by those great pioneers, but only in the last three years has it become a "thing".
Let's not kill the increase in cyclists. Please.
http://www.ecometro.com/portland/search.…
Bike commuting, to the general public, is only recently strong in the interest and media attention. Sure it has been around for decades, pushed forward by those great pioneers, but only in the last three years has it become a "thing".
Let's not kill the increase in cyclists. Please.
http://www.ecometro.com/portland/search.…
39
ummm JF... just to correct you... they do have mail "people (to be political correct)" deliver mail on bikes as well as cops and such. Also if we all rode bikes.... wouldn't that in way reduce the need for mass transportation, I mean most people that I know who take busses do it because A. They can't afford to drive or B. They can't drive... so wouldnt biking potentialy elimante the need for mass transportation and the polution caused by it?
40
Yo Brandon,years ago I gave up the V-twin after some jackass in an F250 ran a red light while driving on Valium and T-boned my ass, launching me endo into some stripmall shrubberies. Imagine the look on his face seconds later after I rolled out, stood up(in a state of shock), checked the roadburn on my leathers, and saw from the foot-deep indentation on the bikeframe's wreckage how close he came to shearing my leg off. The colors on his face after the Marciano left hook I laid him out with? Priceless. ALmost worth the time served on the SC chain gang for that little incident. Lesson learned-Meth plus mass beats valium plus dumbass in a fight,every time. If you're going to run over a biker you better aim good and finish the job. Sorry but dude deserved it big time.
Down to a UFC worthy 250 on thigh-powered machines now, with much better anger-management skills too. Drivers are even worse though: less valium, but worse substitutes; cellphones,DVD players, iPods and GPS gadgets etc keep people's heads stuck firmly up their asses now.
If Seattle can't build a monorail after 96 votes, at least build a subway already and get these dangerous morons off the road before they all collide at once in one big bang blackhole nuclear holocaust...
Down to a UFC worthy 250 on thigh-powered machines now, with much better anger-management skills too. Drivers are even worse though: less valium, but worse substitutes; cellphones,DVD players, iPods and GPS gadgets etc keep people's heads stuck firmly up their asses now.
If Seattle can't build a monorail after 96 votes, at least build a subway already and get these dangerous morons off the road before they all collide at once in one big bang blackhole nuclear holocaust...
41
Bicycles should be required to purchase license plates – it’s a simple user fee that shows the vehicle has passed inspection, is safe for the road with adequate brakes, lights, and reflectors. It should also be a separate requirement that the user has passed a basic driving test – unless you already have a driver’s license. Registered users of the road are supposed to be responsible for their actions and interact in a predictable and appropriate manner. Any argument against is simply irresponsible, naive, and self serving.
Bicyclists should stop bitching about how they’re discriminated against, and get on board with the rest of the vehicle owners in this country.
Bicyclists should stop bitching about how they’re discriminated against, and get on board with the rest of the vehicle owners in this country.
42
I disagree with you Diegoriveras, simply because a bke isnot a motorized vehicle! It is much easier to control a two wheeled 30 pound piece of aluminum powed by foot than it is tocontrola giant SUV. there is no reason to require a bycyclist to be licensed. It'sreally rather pointless in fact.
43
You didn't mention that Vesely's neighborhood, Mercer Island, benefits from one of the most expensive stretches of highway ever built. Did Mercer Island residents pay directly for their tunnel?
44
I think Jessem missed the point. As I drive down the road in my "tocontrola"(?) giant SUV, or my mini micro electric mobilio, I would very much like to "see" each and every 30 lb piece of aluminum with it's 100+ lb rider. I'd like to see them before they enter the traffic, during, and after they leave - further more, I'd like to see them before they pop out from under my wheel. It's really not about me, more about those of you on the road, having the proper equipment to at least protect yourselves against the brutes.
45
So in your opinon.... It should fall on me to watch for your vehicle and make sure that vehicle doesn't hit me? I think as a driver you should accept a little responsibilty and actually pay attention to your effect on those around you... It's a peice of pavement that EVERYONE who pays taxes (myself included even though I don't drive a car)has to pay for. So Maybe it's time that you realize that the road and all those using don't actually revolve around you?
46
The one way to resolve this is to tax everyone based on the costs their form of transportation imposes on society. Sure, some things are unquantifiable, some merely estimate-able, but on the whole this would be fair.
I'm more than happy to pay for my share of road repair caused by my <30lb bike if your average car owner is willing to pay for the wear and tear caused by their 2000+lb car/truck.
The argument that bikes don't do as much good as cars because cars are used for deliveries, mail, ambulances, etc. is specious. Bikes have a slow adoption rate, but they are used for deliveries, for cops, for emergency response is certain applications (music festivals and street fairs, in parks).
The presumed primacy of the car makes for an infrastructure OVERWHELMINGLY devoted to cars. This, in turn, makes cars the most efficient form of transport. It's a circle. And it's bad for public health, the environment, per-unit transportation costs, etc.
I'm more than happy to pay for my share of road repair caused by my <30lb bike if your average car owner is willing to pay for the wear and tear caused by their 2000+lb car/truck.
The argument that bikes don't do as much good as cars because cars are used for deliveries, mail, ambulances, etc. is specious. Bikes have a slow adoption rate, but they are used for deliveries, for cops, for emergency response is certain applications (music festivals and street fairs, in parks).
The presumed primacy of the car makes for an infrastructure OVERWHELMINGLY devoted to cars. This, in turn, makes cars the most efficient form of transport. It's a circle. And it's bad for public health, the environment, per-unit transportation costs, etc.
47
Im all for taxing bikes. Probably should tax cars with the same method. I think a $1 per pound seems fair, in relation to road wear. Cars and bikes alike
49
What about a carbon tax? That would help pay for the roads.
We have to realize that cars and their drivers do not rule the universe.
I am surprised that so many of these comments are anti-bike.
Makes me sad. So many problems and people want to complain
about cyclists and the editorial writer (who I agree with).
We have to realize that cars and their drivers do not rule the universe.
I am surprised that so many of these comments are anti-bike.
Makes me sad. So many problems and people want to complain
about cyclists and the editorial writer (who I agree with).
51
Regardless of additional use fees or so called "free rides", the fact remains that bicycle commuters are taking their lives in their hands when sharing the road with cars.
I think anyone who wants to use the roads should pay the additional use fee, and gain some additional rights and responsibilities as a result. You can bad mouth me and my thoughts on this, but it's how I see positive change coming about rather than railing against some subjective columnist's viewpoint.
Take it to the City Council and lobby for the use fee and control it in your favor. You'll have much more say in how the roads are designed and used - and I for one, of many citizens of Seattle, would be happy to see more dedicated bicycle corridors created.
I used to commute on bicycle (I commute via wire now) and was run down on Nickerson on the way to work by a driver who was looking for oncoming traffic as he pushed the gas pedal and hit me from behind. Fortunately there was a bus just pulling out behind us to block traffic or I'd have been another broken helmet and grease spot on the road. I was pissed off, and yet it wouldn't have changed a thing, having a license plate on my bike. The point? I commiserate (spl?)
As an unregistered bicyclist, I am not visible to the Legisture or City Coucil. There's no census data to confirm whether we should dedicate more funding to build more bicycle corridors. As a registered rider, I'd be able to raise some serious hay with the legislature and council members - a voice along with thousands of other like-minded registered riders.
Call it a membership fee or whatever you like, but get together on the subject and make change happen. If you want to get something done, stop being passive agressive and rebellious bloggers, and start coming up with real solutions to your issues.
More...
I think anyone who wants to use the roads should pay the additional use fee, and gain some additional rights and responsibilities as a result. You can bad mouth me and my thoughts on this, but it's how I see positive change coming about rather than railing against some subjective columnist's viewpoint.
Take it to the City Council and lobby for the use fee and control it in your favor. You'll have much more say in how the roads are designed and used - and I for one, of many citizens of Seattle, would be happy to see more dedicated bicycle corridors created.
I used to commute on bicycle (I commute via wire now) and was run down on Nickerson on the way to work by a driver who was looking for oncoming traffic as he pushed the gas pedal and hit me from behind. Fortunately there was a bus just pulling out behind us to block traffic or I'd have been another broken helmet and grease spot on the road. I was pissed off, and yet it wouldn't have changed a thing, having a license plate on my bike. The point? I commiserate (spl?)
As an unregistered bicyclist, I am not visible to the Legisture or City Coucil. There's no census data to confirm whether we should dedicate more funding to build more bicycle corridors. As a registered rider, I'd be able to raise some serious hay with the legislature and council members - a voice along with thousands of other like-minded registered riders.
Call it a membership fee or whatever you like, but get together on the subject and make change happen. If you want to get something done, stop being passive agressive and rebellious bloggers, and start coming up with real solutions to your issues.
52
Gasoline ought to cost $75/gal. to reflect it's true cost to society according to "A Crude Awakening: The Oil Crash"
I don't see what drivers are moaning about. If you can't afford that then dump your mansion on mercer island and get an apt. in seattle and walk/bike/bus to work like the rest of us who are actually paying for the streets you drive on in seattle.
I don't see what drivers are moaning about. If you can't afford that then dump your mansion on mercer island and get an apt. in seattle and walk/bike/bus to work like the rest of us who are actually paying for the streets you drive on in seattle.
53
I would support an annual $1 per pound tax. That accurately reflects road wear and tear. Average bike weight < 20 lbs., average motorcycle 500 lbs., average car > 2500 lbs. So that would be $20 for privilege of riding a bike on city streets and over $2500 for the privilege of driving on city streets. I think I could handle that.
54
All I can think of in reading this article is that the crazy tax cuts Bush put in the past few months actually includes a tax benefit for bicycle commuters. Starting January 2009, one can take a $25 per month exclusion on costs associated with the maintenance of a bicycle for commuting purposes which one's employer provides tax-free. This is an extension of a tax exclusion that's been in place for a few years for vehicle commuting costs usually associated with parking and car-pooling. Being the only bicycle commuting tax accountant I know, I jumped for joy when the law passed. If you want the exact details of the law go to: http://www.bikeleague.org/news/100708adv… . However, you should probably see if your employer has a bunch of benefits and ask if they can add this one.
55
Yes please, tax these people that ride tandem, shut down traffic to protest, and take up lanes that cars pay for. Alki has a bike path, plus bike lanes on both sides of the street. Ridiculous. Thay can't decide if they want to abide by the laws and be in traffic like a car, or go against traffic, run red lights, and cheat when it suits them. About time someone stopped bending over to these insane greenies around here. They want to redistribute wealth and raise taxes, please include them in their own mess they want to create.
56
I can see the headlines now, 4th Grader pulled over for riding his bike to school this morning. Police are out in force, and the truant officers are right behind picking these scoff-laws up (serves the little so-and-so's right!).
Some editors have folders full of schtuff like this for when a lead story tanks right before press time.
How about taxing coffee a dime (remember that one)? How about some responsible reporting?
This is not only totally unenforceable, and is not worth the ink spent to print it, nor the legislatures time to find ouot that they are ignoring the idea.
Why bother dignifying this idiocy?
I think that the Associated Press re-printer/advertising mule can do much better than this, or at least one would hope so.
Some editors have folders full of schtuff like this for when a lead story tanks right before press time.
How about taxing coffee a dime (remember that one)? How about some responsible reporting?
This is not only totally unenforceable, and is not worth the ink spent to print it, nor the legislatures time to find ouot that they are ignoring the idea.
Why bother dignifying this idiocy?
I think that the Associated Press re-printer/advertising mule can do much better than this, or at least one would hope so.
57
DiegoRiveras:
So what's next: skateboard licenses?
Wheelchair license plates?
Pedestrian licenses??
There was a reason the founders of this nation added and defined MORE freedoms rather than make laws to define or restrict: they were encouraging freedom for freedom's sake, to see what more good for humanity could come of it. Now while I'm not about to say bikers (yeah I said BIKERS - stuff it brandon: I can lift both my motorcycle and my schwinn in the air, bet you can't make such a claim: so bring it, vocab police) are the best thing since the Bill Of Rights, I certainly would love to see my city lead the way on creating more opportunities to increase health, lower healthcare costs for employers and regular joes, slow the steady climb of exhaust in our region's air, diminish -however slightly- the need for foreign oil and arguably foreign wars, and set an example for others of bicycle-centric city planning the way NYC has set an example for subways.
For freedom's sake as it were. If we set a new standard for alternative commuting (with the same vigor our city has spent 2 decades setting a new standard for american coffee), then think what could come next? Imagine what mindset, what progressive and evolving POV our region's investors, inventors and other smart folks might turn into a whole new, yet-unimagined transportation option. Now imagine the difference if all we do is spend the next generation coddling cars...
Encourage, by any and all means, biking as a replacement for driving when feasible.
So what's next: skateboard licenses?
Wheelchair license plates?
Pedestrian licenses??
There was a reason the founders of this nation added and defined MORE freedoms rather than make laws to define or restrict: they were encouraging freedom for freedom's sake, to see what more good for humanity could come of it. Now while I'm not about to say bikers (yeah I said BIKERS - stuff it brandon: I can lift both my motorcycle and my schwinn in the air, bet you can't make such a claim: so bring it, vocab police) are the best thing since the Bill Of Rights, I certainly would love to see my city lead the way on creating more opportunities to increase health, lower healthcare costs for employers and regular joes, slow the steady climb of exhaust in our region's air, diminish -however slightly- the need for foreign oil and arguably foreign wars, and set an example for others of bicycle-centric city planning the way NYC has set an example for subways.
For freedom's sake as it were. If we set a new standard for alternative commuting (with the same vigor our city has spent 2 decades setting a new standard for american coffee), then think what could come next? Imagine what mindset, what progressive and evolving POV our region's investors, inventors and other smart folks might turn into a whole new, yet-unimagined transportation option. Now imagine the difference if all we do is spend the next generation coddling cars...
Encourage, by any and all means, biking as a replacement for driving when feasible.
59
I'd like to open with the fact that I believe Vesely's reasoning to be absurdly stupid; however I do believe bikers that choose to share the road with motorists should have to be registered/licensed (plates and all), primarily because of the fact that many, not all, but many bicyclists (primarily those of the hipster/douchey variety) choose to take far too many dangerous liberties when riding in traffic. I think most Seattlites: drivers, citizens, pedestrians, etc. are familiar with what I'm talking about.
I don't believe bikers are ticketed enough for their highly illegal and extremely dangerous actions on the road, and I think license plates on bicycles would be extremely helpful in denying the bikers of the asshole variety, the convenient anonymity that they currently hold.
The maneuvers I've seen many a biker pull on University Way, or Denny Way, or Broadway, or any other busy street (even non-high traffic streets for that matter) would be screamingly frowned upon and considered appalling by most people's standards if committed by a motorist. Quite often the roadway strategies they employ are blatantly antagonistic towards motorists, and driving alongside them in a car (or even being a passenger in that car) is maddeningly frustrating and anxiety inducing simply due to the fear of hitting the badly behaving bikers or causing a car accident as a result of trying to avoid a more likely fatal bike/car accident.
I can appreciate the fact that more and more people choosing this alternate form of transportation is by and large an exceptionally good thing in a plethora of respects. I'm not trying to knock the population of people doing their part to help the environment and save tax dollars, many of whom do not act in the ways I've referred to, I just think some of them are taking advantage of the grey areas in the laws (or lack there of), and those people need to be put in check.
More...
I don't believe bikers are ticketed enough for their highly illegal and extremely dangerous actions on the road, and I think license plates on bicycles would be extremely helpful in denying the bikers of the asshole variety, the convenient anonymity that they currently hold.
The maneuvers I've seen many a biker pull on University Way, or Denny Way, or Broadway, or any other busy street (even non-high traffic streets for that matter) would be screamingly frowned upon and considered appalling by most people's standards if committed by a motorist. Quite often the roadway strategies they employ are blatantly antagonistic towards motorists, and driving alongside them in a car (or even being a passenger in that car) is maddeningly frustrating and anxiety inducing simply due to the fear of hitting the badly behaving bikers or causing a car accident as a result of trying to avoid a more likely fatal bike/car accident.
I can appreciate the fact that more and more people choosing this alternate form of transportation is by and large an exceptionally good thing in a plethora of respects. I'm not trying to knock the population of people doing their part to help the environment and save tax dollars, many of whom do not act in the ways I've referred to, I just think some of them are taking advantage of the grey areas in the laws (or lack there of), and those people need to be put in check.
60
And by the way, Dude--In regards to bike riding reducing DUI's, that's entirely false. I've known of several people getting DUI's on bicycles. Furthermore a very close friend of mine was riding his bike drunk, and crashed into a fucking tree which sent him to the hospital. That's where the not smart part comes in. But anyway, yeah, you can get a dooey on a bicycle.
61
OOOooooh a tax, an evil taxxxx. Get over yourself already. Big deal. Pay the tax and move on with your life. Here in France we have to pay a TV-audiovisual tax regardless of whether we ever watch network TV. You own a TV/monitor - you pay the tax. We hate it but we pay it along with a zillion other taxes. Relax, it's just a tax.
62
Firstly, I believe that paying a tax would help all us bike riders out there feel more grown up. I mean, being a full grown adult and still playing with toys in the street can be a little embarrassing. Especially when it comes time to pick up a first date and she's gotta ride on the handle bars.
Secondly, I LOVE how we're called "Bikers" now. It sounds Sooooo much hipper and grown up than 'Cyclist". I just wonder what the real bikers think of us. Someday we WILL be as feared and respected as them!
Secondly, I LOVE how we're called "Bikers" now. It sounds Sooooo much hipper and grown up than 'Cyclist". I just wonder what the real bikers think of us. Someday we WILL be as feared and respected as them!
63
There are asshole drivers, and there are asshole bikers. The thing is, the asshole bikers are on the right side of history. (as you might suspect, I am a bike commuter)
64
I don't have much of an opinion on this specific argument, but I surely wish the police would start ticketing bicyclists for moving violations. I see bicyclists committing violations routinely and they endanger themselves and others.
65
I agree with Gilbert. A small license plate on the back of the bike with tabs, so you can run those miscreants who are so holier-than-thou because they can create traffic havoc and not be tracked down. How many times have I had a bicyclist run a stop sign, causing me to have to slam on my brakes? Or weaving in and out of traffic at will, cutting me off? Are you a street vehicle, or a pedestrian? They want all of the above, at the detriment and risk of others on the road. And they get smug about it, even though in an accident, they have a much higher chance of turning up dead for their arrogance. Tax them, make them behave, and perhaps they might gain a modicum of respect from the majority of drivers. (Sorry, I can't ride a bike 140 miles to work, AND haul all the stuff I need...)
66
even if a law was passed to tax bicycles, which won't happen, it would be basically less enforceable than a law for jaywalking or littering. bikes aren't registered under anyone's name, are a relatively simple inexpensive machine compared to automobiles, motorcycles, etc. this is a pointless argument to begin with because it is totally unrealistic.
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