I really need some help and comfort. I am a straight 25-year-old woman, and I’ve been dating my boyfriend for four years. I have never been the romantic type, until I met him. At the beginning, we were purely sexual. We love role-playing, and we always came up with erotic fantasies of me being fucked and used by multiple men, or some fantasy where others were involved. It was hot to me until I fell in love with him. Now the only thing that turns me on is him.
Even though he says he loves me, I cannot say he gets turned on by thinking of only me. We still continue these fantasies, but lately I’m seeing that every single time we are intimate, he always talks about things he wants other men (and women) to do to me or what he wants to do with others while I’m around. He never talks about a hot fantasy that involves only him and me. I drew the line when he started bringing my best friend into our role-playing.
When I told him I would prefer if he not bring her into it, he ignored me and talked about her anyway. The last time I brought it up, he said he won’t tell me his fantasies anymore and that he’ll just tell me what I want to hear. He also said that by asking him to stop thinking of others, I am demeaning him and his sexuality.
Am I demeaning him when I ask him to not bring up others in our role-playing every time we’re intimate? It wouldn’t bother me if it were once in a while. I wind up feeling unattractive and never good enough. What can I do to make him want only me?
Not Good Enough
Nothing. He’s never gonna want just you and only you, NGE. All that crazy, groupy, kinky shit that turned him on when you first got together—the shit that turned you on before you fell in love with him—still turns him on and will always turn him on.
Now, I know you’re not doing it on purpose, NGE, and this is just how you feel, and feelings are sacrosanct lil’ mysteries and there’s nothing you can do about them, but I’ve never understood people who are up for anything with someone they’re into—dirty talk, crazy sex, groups (real or imagined)—up until the moment they fall in love with that person.
Um… shouldn’t falling in love, and the deepening feelings of trust and security that go along with that, open a couple up to new possibilities, new horizons, new sexual adventures?
And if falling in love with someone means the end of sexual adventure and fantasy and role-play—if falling in love means previously acceptable fantasies wind up on your partner’s no-fly list—isn’t that a huge disincentive to fall in love?
That said, NGE, your boyfriend should, at the very least, mix it the fuck up. Even if you were into groups—or still into groups, or still into thoughts of groups—hearing about groups each and every time you fuck would get pretty fucking tedious after four fucking years. And pressing ahead with annoying fantasies about specific people—your best friend, your mom, your boss—after you’ve asked him to stop is an asshole move. If he needs dirty talk to get off, he should find new dirty scenarios to explore, including some that involve you and only you, save the group fantasies for “once in a while,” and leave your best friend out of it.
As for feeling unattractive, you should make him aware of your insecurities—if you haven’t already—and he should be considerate enough to come through with regular reassurances about your attractiveness, his feelings for you, how hot he thinks your body is, etc., etc.
Finally, NGE, I want to emphasize again that there’s nothing you can do to make him want you and only you. He is who he is, he’s turned on by what turns him on, and you knew that when you fell in love with him. You have neither the right nor the power to reach into his erotic imagination and yank out the bits that conflict with your ideas of what sex is or should be when two people are in love.
I wouldn’t go so far as to say that your attitude is demeaning, though. It’s more delusional, perhaps, with a sprinkling of irrational jimmies. But not demeaning.
I am a 21-year-old male in a loving and committed relationship. The sex is great; the evenings together are great. It’s a perfectly happy relationship except for this one thing: I can’t get enough change. I want to be having sex with someone else. One girl is never going to be enough to make me happy.
I have asked her about the possibility of having a threesome. She said she would never go for that, not MMF or FFM, and she is utterly against it and always will be. But I NEED more. Sad fact. What do I do?
Coming Up More
You could stick it out, I suppose, in the hopes that true love has the opposite effect on your girlfriend than it did on NGE here, i.e., that once your girlfriend is crazy for you, CUM, she’ll want to fuck shitloads of other people and she’ll give you the go-ahead to do the same. The odds of that happening, however, are close enough to nonexistent that I would be stripped of my professional accreditation if I advised you to live in hope.
Look, CUM, you’re 21 and you’re not ready to settle down—or settle for one person—not yet anyway, maybe not ever. However lovely this girl is, however pleasant your evenings together are, you’re not sexually compatible. There would be fewer divorces and less heartbreak if people were encouraged to view sexual incompatibility as the deal breaker it inevitably becomes over time.
Dump the nice girl, be single, fuck around, and keep your eyes peeled for a girl who wants what you want, change and all.
My friend—I swear, I actually mean my friend—has been “notdating” his “notboyfriend” since August. They see each other on an almost daily basis and have even had a conversation about exclusivity. The “notboyfriend” won’t fuck my friend! What’s even weirder is that they started out as fuck buddies and then didn’t speak for a year before they started dating.
What should my friend do? He would like to have sex with the “notboyfriend” since it was awesome the first run.
Concerned Lesbian
It’s possible that your friend’s notboyfriend seroconverted sometime after their fuck-buddy arrangement expired and before they started dating, and the notboyfriend wants to disclose his new HIV status before they start fucking again and is having a hard time working up the nerve.
Or it could be that your friend’s notboyfriend isn’t into your friend sexually but depends on his emotional support and doesn’t want to have to share him, or compete for his nonsexual attentions, with a real, live, honest-to-God boyfriend.
Here’s what your friend should do: Tell the notboyfriend that, while he values the emotional intimacy they share, he’s looking for sexual intimacy, too. If there’s some reason why they’re not fucking, he wants to know what it is. If there’s no reason, he wants to start fucking. Your friend needs to make it clear that there will be no “exclusivity”—and no more “notdating”—until they’re notnotfucking.
“the gender-normative discourse I despise”
Obviously somebody had a few to many radical feminist and gender studies classes. While it may be a bit late for this sorry person, the example is a salutary warning to others….
i like the answer to Not Good Enough.
an idea i’ve been thinking about for fantasies- and will try out if i ever get to have sex again- is clones.
even the idea of the partners imaginary twin sibling getting into the action could bother your partner.
but what if you pretended you had an army of clones? something a la the scene from watchmen when Dr. Manhattan splits himself to pleasure Silk Spectre II?
you couldn’t get upset about that because it’s virtually the same person multiplied.
cheers!
i like the answer to Not Good Enough.
an idea i’ve been thinking about for fantasies- and will try out if i ever get to have sex again- is clones.
even the idea of the partners imaginary twin sibling getting into the action could bother your partner.
but what if you pretended you had an army of clones? something a la the scene from watchmen when Dr. Manhattan splits himself to pleasure Silk Spectre II?
you couldn’t get upset about that because it’s virtually the same person multiplied.
cheers!
re: NGE
There is no right way or wrong way to approach sex. It sounds as though they were both previously on the same wave length; enjoying each other as life sized sex toys. Now she has marured and discovered a stage where she wants to connect with him as a human being and wants him to want her the same way.
Since they seem to be a playful and sexually experimental couple why not read a little about Tantric sex and see if that might appeal to you both? Check out the Americantantra.org website which is very accessible for beginners.
@54: The clone/twin/time-traveled-duplicate fantasy is really hot. I’m not quite sure how you’re planning on trying it out for real, though…
NGE needs to get pregnant immediately. That way, she can put him on the hook for child support and, if lucky, trap him into marriage before he wises up and leaves her.
@49: “gender-normative discourse”
I take it you mean stereotypical man/woman talk? So it would be bad for a guy to talk about football, but OK for a woman? Or OK for a man to talk about lipstick, but not for a woman to do the same?
Seems to me the focus should be on the topic rather than the sex of the person raising the topic. For me, any conversation regarding football or lipstick would be a snooze no matter who brought it up. I wonder though, if you won’t socialize with people who engage in “gender-normative discourse”, who does that leave, because everyone engages in some kind of communications that would be considered “normal” for their gender.
There’s some breeder biology going on for NGE, Dan. Her system switched from enjoying checking out and attracting every guy, to falling in love and getting down to the business of keeping those eggs safe. Sorry if it doesn’t translate to to “I love you and I want to fulfil you sexually even more!” – but it did translate to “only you make me hot!”
It’s hard for her to work on the new insecurity after the switch, when her BF turns the threat level UP instead of down. Sounds like she said “can’t we play like it’s just me that makes you hot even part of the time?” and he replied “no, you know what, I used to need to imagine that a random unknown woman made me hotter than you, now I’ll imagine your real live best friend does it for me!”
By threatening to withhold all future thoughts on the matter rather than negotiate a change, he cranked up the power play even more. NGE feels like the next step is he cheats and doesn’t bother to tell her. I’m sympathetic to her problem in resetting this system.
@49
“a) I “choose” not to engage socially with… not “refuse.” Social obligations often require me to engage with heteronormative people, and I do so without reservation.
b) I don’t assume that someone adheres to the gender-normative discourse I despise until they actually prove it to me. That is the benefit of the doubt.”
Do you have any idea how insufferable you sound? Is this what you’re actually like in real life? I’ve known some total fucking assholes in my life, but god DAMN. I wouldn’t be as snide and self-important as you for a kingdom, offwhite. I actually feel sorry for you, although I assume you’re happy up there on your high horse.
“There would be fewer divorces and less heartbreak if people were encouraged to view sexual incompatibility as the deal breaker it inevitably becomes over time.”
I wish I knew this at the age of 30 when I settled and got married. I wasted 10 years of my life because I did not know the truth of this simple statement.
Amen, Dan!
Though I’ve heard Dan talk of the Madonna/Whore theory, I was surprised when I it happen to me. I was in a GGG relationship full of dirty talk and some great raunchy sex. Then we got married, I continued with my filth talk/jokes and he said – my WIFE doesn’t talk like that. I thought WTF? He said it enough to let me know that the ‘rules’ have changed. Thank god the marriage ended (for other reasons) I could see me being censored! F that!
@63
That actually fucking happens?! I thought it was some kind of horrible urban legend… I hope you told the fucker how miserably unfair that is–I mean, how are you supposed to know what you’re getting yourself into with a person like that? That’s part of the point of premarital sex! Do you think he KNEW that he’d develop this complex, or did it come as a surprise to him too? A surprise that, I assume, he wasn’t willing to try and fix, perhaps with a few hundred years of therapy. Good work getting out of that mess!!!
@ Professor and chicago girl…
Sorry you find teh big wordz confusing.
@ Your Name Was Here (#59)…
No, I mean the assumptions that people make because of gender, especially regarding sexuality. Like, the way as a woman, I have been trained to dangle my pussy on a stick and make men jump through hoops to access it, and if I want to have sex with a man, people usually assume it’s because I’m trying to get something out of him. Or the idea that a woman who “respects herself” doesn’t participate in a gang-bang.
As for me not wanting to socialize with heteronormative people, it’s an issue that is extremely important to me, really a core value of mine, so I don’t choose to spend my personal time with people who act this way. We all choose our friends based on our likes, dislikes, shared values, etc…. this is one of mine.
To read the responses, you’d think I said I only hang out with PhD-level social scientists…. this is shit Dan writes about all the fucking time! If you don’t think about it and consider it worthy of discussion, why are you here?
Sorry, @ Your Name Was Here (#59)… the “why are you here?” was not directed at you, but those who consider women’s studies classes a liability.
There were some interesting comments here. Thankfully, Not Good Enough listened to Dan, actually talked to her partner!! and wrote back
http://slog.thestranger.com/slog/archive…
Aaack… sorry for the multiple posts! I just keep finding more criticism.
@ monkeywithcarkeys…
Point taken. I actually just finished my thesis, and am clearly stuck in a bit of an academic head-space. Color me humbled.
NGE needs to DTMnotFA! People change, people evolve, people grow apart, and she shouldn’t feel bad because she’s changed and he hasn’t. Do you like the same exact erotic things (or food or anything else) that you did when you were 16? Rules change all the time, and if everybody doesn’t agree, then either someone has to decide to be unhappy the rest of their life, or they break up. Simple.
And yes, he’s totally not into any kind of emotional intimacy with her – she may call him her boyfriend, but she’s just a fuck-buddy who’s also a roommate. It’s the same as if he invited all his old college buddies along on every romantic date. It may be his weakness or just that they don’t mesh in that way, but he’s truly just not that into her.
As for people changing the rules when they fall in love… it’s natural to cocoon and not want to share the loved person so much in every way, and when you’re truly deeply in love then sex is a different experience. For some people, the emotional intimacy of “making love” is a whole different experience for them than simply fucking (which really only requires a faceless cock and/or hole). It’s not just 2 people getting their respective rocks off anymore, it’s 2 spirits touching and becoming one, and the gymnastics and crowds and assorted kink just doesn’t seem so necessary anymore. Sure, they are great for mixing it up, but not a steady diet.
NGE needs to DTMnotFA! People change, people evolve, people grow apart, and she shouldn’t feel bad because she’s changed and he hasn’t. Do you like the same exact erotic things (or food or clothes or anything else) that you did when you were 16? Rules change all the time, and if everybody doesn’t agree, then either someone has to decide to be unhappy the rest of their life, or they break up. Simple.
And yes, he’s totally not into any kind of emotional intimacy with her – she may call him her boyfriend, but she’s just a fuck-buddy who’s also a roommate, and he does everything he can to keep it that way. It’s the same as if he invited all his old college buddies along on every romantic date. It may be his weakness or just that they don’t mesh in that way, but he’s truly just not that into her. It’s nothing personal, she just needs to move on and find someone who sees her for the goddess she truly is. We’re all goddesses and we all deserve that.
As for people changing the rules when they fall in love… it’s natural to cocoon and not want to share the loved person so much in every way, and when you’re truly deeply in love then sex is a different experience. For some people, the emotional intimacy of “making love” is a whole different experience for them than simply fucking (which really only requires a faceless cock and/or hole). It’s not just 2 people getting their respective rocks off anymore, it’s 2 spirits touching and becoming one, and the gymnastics and crowds and assorted kink sometimes just doesn’t seem so necessary all the time anymore. Sure, they are great for mixing it up, but not a steady diet. But in any case, if their lives together are making one of the people so unhappy and causing so much conflict, then DTMnotFA!!!!!
I swear I only hit “enter” once! Sorry!
OK, three last thoughts: 1) It’s easy to rag on NGE for being insecure and self-doubting, but this isn’t something sudden, it’s developed over 4 years of this relationship. His normal behavior affects her negatively, and – after 4 years together – she should be able to discuss this with him without him getting getting passive-aggressive and turning the blame back on her. Run away, NGE.
2) Any sexy-time schtick gets old after a while. Even if it still turns YOU on, ya gotta change it up sometimes or it gets tiresome and cringe-inducing. The goal is spontaneity, keeping it fresh, and making sure to do what the other person likes, sometimes, too. I used to hook up with an old ex on occasion, but I thought if I heard, “Tell me whose sweet pussy this is!” or the cheesy lion’s “Rawr!” (10 seconds prior to coming) one more time I would kill him.
3) Lastly, this situation does remind me of men who always blatantly ogle and flirt with other women, and even talk in front of their wives about how hot that babe over there is, with the excuse that they’re going home together anyway, right? If that’s an every-day thing, wouldn’t she start to think that he wasn’t that attracted to her, that she’s chopped liver? And I’ve dated men who have odd performance quirks or ways of behaving immediately after sex that made me think that I just didn’t “do it” for them. After all, sometimes you feel insecure about how someone feels about you because you’re truly picking up vibes, some subtle or not-so-subtle cues from them. It’s NOT always in your head.
It is sad how many comments treat women’s insecurities as a big bad plague for her to hide and shoulder alone. I used to think that way, too, but my husband is a bigger man– he knows a woman’s fears, even the irrational ones, are a shared problem in a relationship. He told me, if your negative feelings are making you unhappy, that is my problem too, and anything of that magnitude shouldn’t be concealed in a healthy relationship. All the men (and some women) running around thinking NGE’s insecurities are a) damning and incurable and/or b) a cause to immediately jump ship, should reconsider. After all, women routinely support and massage their men’s egos, even if it is somewhat irrational, and society strongly supports it.
People who are anxious to or feel pressured to share fantasies should be aware of the hazards. Sexual fantasy, like dreaming, is not subject to moral or artistic control, but what comes out of your mouth *is* in our control and we can take responsibility for it. Let’s suppose my partner fantasizes about raping my daughter. Does he need to share that with me, and would I be expected to enjoy it? While it may be therapeutic to know that transgressive fantasy is common and does not correlate with character, it is neither therapeutic nor erotic to evoke emotionally painful images in a sexual context. Inhibition exists for a reason.
People who are anxious to or feel pressured to share fantasies should be aware of the hazards. Sexual fantasy, like dreaming, is not subject to moral or artistic control, but what comes out of your mouth *is* in our control and we can take responsibility for it. Let’s suppose my partner fantasizes about raping my daughter. Does he need to share that with me, and would I be expected to enjoy it? While it may be therapeutic to know that transgressive fantasy is common and does not correlate with character, it is neither therapeutic nor erotic to evoke emotionally painful images in a sexual context. Inhibition exists for a reason.
By the way, I’d like to suggest an alternative acronym. DTMFA works when the potential dump-ee is in some way genuinely at fault–cheating, changed the “rules”, not GGG, being an a**hole about something important. But in cases of sheer no-fault (or dumper’s-fault) incompatibility, it hardly seems fair to call the dump-ee rude names, particularly in cases where the fault lies with the one doing the dumping.
So, substitute in PT–poor thing. Especially if it’s a case of “for his/her own good”, like someone whose PTSD is being triggered by a partner, or someone faithfully monogamous being dumped by a habitual cheater…
Here is an interesting old column:
I’ve been with my loving, adventurous boyfriend for two years. We’re both in our 20s, but I’ve had more experience. In the beginning, I was honest about having been in a few threesomes. He was turned on by the idea and initially I encouraged him. However, as we became more emotionally involved, I decided that I couldn’t share him. When I told him this, we got into a fight. He feels that he’s missing out because we have a good, healthy, loving, stable relationship.
He won’t let it go. The most I can tell him is that, should the circumstances be exactly right, then maybe. Considering the stars will likely never align themselves, his rehashing of the subject upsets me and gets us nowhere. How do I tell him that no he’s not missing out, no I didn’t lie to him, and please, darling, shut the fuck up.
Love Obligates Sexual Exclusiveness
“Telling your boyfriend he’s not missing out isn’t going to dampen his enthusiasm,” says Vicki. “Plus, it’s not true—he is missing out on threesomes, which are popular because they’re hot!” Threesomes aren’t for everybody, of course, “but it may be worth exploring your hang-ups. The idea that you can’t share your boyfriend because you love him may be something you can’t get over, but some couples find that having a threesome brings them even closer.”
So what does Vicki think you should you do? “Tell your boyfriend that you need time to figure out if a three-way could work for you. Agree to revisit the discussion in three months—if he stops pushing.”
Hm. I’ve been right there with Vicki until that last bit of advice. It seems clear that LOSE has no intention of having a three-way with her boyfriend today, three months from now, or ever. So telling the boyfriend it might happen if he could only shut up about it for a while seems a bit dishonest.
Hey, LOSE? You made your boyfriend a promise, you backed out, and he has a right to feel misled. For that, you owe him an apology. Period. Are you obligated to have a three-way? Of course not. But you need to shut the fuck up about planets that you know damn well aren’t ever going to align. If being with you means never having a threesome, LOSE, tell him that now so he can make an informed choice about whether he wants to be with you at all.
I get a shitload of e-mail from folks—okay, mostly straight guys—who were promised regular oral, three-ways, bi action, visits to pro dommes, etc., during courtships only to be told, once they’d committed, that “love” nullified those offers. That sexual bait-and-switch bullshit destroys relationships, LOSE—even good, healthy, loving, stable relationships.
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Offfwhite, no humbling required. Creeping academese is difficult to avoid and often impossible to self-detect… it happens.
In regards to NGE, my perspective is strange to even myself, because I think I know a little about transitioning from a self-proclaimed strict nonmonogamous type to someone who simply isn’t aroused by anyone other than their significant other. Knowing myself however, I consider this to be a phenomena, a blip in my love life, and expect to go right back to desiring multiple people sometime in the future. Although being in love wasn’t the variable here since I fully believe you can be completely in love with someone and still desire other people and they shouldn’t conflict, I’ve had to come to the strange realization that, for the time being, I am incidentally monogamous. The strangest part was that I had started being polyamorous with this person when I met him and was completely happy, and after a year, I have transitioned to being monogamous with him and am still completely happy.
If something similar happened to NGE, I can empathize only because I have experienced it. It’s effected my strict stance of viewing monogamy critically as a lack of honesty and imagination.
Where my polyamorous side still leads my relationship philosophy is in the principle that my changing needs do not take control of my partner’s freedom of sexuality nor necessitate a change on his part. Just because I am now more fulfilled by being with only him at this time, doesn’t give me the right to expect the same from him. Happily for me, he is also incidentally monogamous because it works for him, but were he to go back to our old lifestyle, I wouldn’t begrudge him though it might hurt me. Keeping my feelings in check, though always being honest, is important because I value his happiness more than my passing insecurities.
This was all to say that someone who has been fulfilled by many relationships, or even of the idea of them, can become someone who is only fulfilled by one relationship, even within the course of that same relationship. I know it was a minor point in the article, but Dan sounded like he didn’t know this was possible, and nor did I until it happened to me.
Here’s a few good fantasies for you both to share, only they’re not fantasies – http://mysexlifewithlola.wordpress.com/