In a newly released survey that will surely shock the rest of The Stranger’s news department (at least, those sober enough on a Tuesday morning to read it), an Elway Poll commissioned by the Washington State Liquor Control Board finds the majority of respondents are more or less satisfied with our state controlled liquor monopoly.
The survey showed most liquor store customers gave high marks for liquor store employee courtesy, product selection and store locations.
The survey, conducted by Elway Research, Inc., also revealed customer support for changes to improve convenience and customer service, such as 15 new stores, standard hours of operation, liquor store gift cards, restaurant delivery, and web-based ordering for customers and licensees to be picked up at stores.
I know Frizzelle finds it outrageous that he has to walk a whole block from his office to the nearest liquor store, but that puts him in the minority, with two-thirds of respondents saying that we currently have the “right number” of liquor stores. Imagine that.
More later, after I study the raw data.
Told you.
We all want the liquor stores to stay open and sell booze and pot.
And maybe put a few in grocery stores with sliding doors and ID checks.
Go start a distillery!
I am still not cool with that 46% markup.
Hey! I participated in that survey.
What is the legal penalty for ordering a single bottle of booze online that the state does not carry and will only order in volume for you?
My impression was that Mr. Frizzelle’s complaint centred on the fact that they were only open from 11 to 4…
People may not object to the status quo, but there is not one advantage to a state liquor store that any other properly licensed, regulated, and/or taxed retail liquor seller could not also offer. And there are many, many advantages that retail sellers could offer Washingtonians that the state stores cannot or chose not to offer (e.g. Joe’s point, among others).
It’s just plain dumb.
What are these people comparing it to? Previous performance of the state’s liquor stores? How many have lived in a place with other liquor distribution rules? This survey is useless.
This is nonsense. Look, most people like McDonalds. It’s consistent, if a bit dirty. The burgers are always the same, they might not make you healthy, but they’ll take care of your appetite for a few hours and they probably won’t kill you. But no one argue that they should have a monopoly on burgers. The problem with the state liquor stores is they all have nearly the exact same selection. No specialization. No variety.
Case in point: Kirschwasser. Until recently you could acquire only one kind of Kirsch, Monarch brand, which isn’t so much Kirsch as bad vodka flavored with the plasticky taste of maraschino cherry juice–and a perfect way to ruin a cheese fondue. Thank god for Oregon’s Clearcreek distillery, which somehow managed to shoehorn their way past the state’s buyer to get their product into a few of their stores. But you’re SOL if your are looking for Kirsch from Europe. The same is true if you are looking for any other specialty spirits.
Lastly, despite having some the world’s best raw materials for distilled spirits, the state’s one-selection-fits-all-stores mentality prevents local spirits producers from introducing their limited-quantity wares to their fellow citizens via specialty stores that would showcase finer, rarer, and more local products.
Any store that meets the needs of the 85% crowd for the bulk gins and vodkas is going to get reasonable ratings from them. But that doesn’t mean the rest of us who believe the stores limit quality, innovation, and taste aren’t right.
It may be dumb, Simac, but it does generate a lot of revenue for the state general fund. Given the fiscal problems facing the state nowadays, nothing we do to “improve” the liquor selling business should diminish those revenues.
I know that’s so contrary to Tim-Eyman-think, but that’s just how I feel. Private interests are going to fight to have a big chunk of those revenues “privatized”, as they tried with their last two initiatives.
There may be a larger role for the private sector in the liquor business, but let’s have the Legislature figure that out, not the industry itself.
judgmentalist @7,
OK then, how about this survey? Or this one? We just had an election on this issue, and those results seem right in line with Elway’s.
Correction: This study shows that respondents are on-average satisfied with some aspects of the convenience these stores offer. There are no questions regarding selection or pricing, my two biggest issues with our system.
I am guessing that many of the unhappy people in the survey live in the Rainier Valley. Nearest booze shop choices: up-n-over Beacon Hill to SODO, drive to Renton, or hop the Link to downtown. Looking at a google map for Seattle area liquor stores is illuminating. I’ve wondered if the notable absence of liquor stores is a leftover from the red-lining days.
But, since I live within the Drug Market Initiative zone, it’s super easy to buy crack down the block.
@11 Exactly. Goldy, don’t selection and price merit addressing, speaking from your anti-reform (?) point of view. The price thing for me is secondary; my personal complaint is, was and remains selection, having lived always knowing NY/CT/MA style stores with as much selection as the retailer could cram in there. Even mundane things — my wife’s favorite, Bacardi Big Apple — you can’t get. And that’s as vanilla as you can get.
@10: I’m just saying that asking people who don’t know any better isn’t necessarily productive. When I was a kid I though McDonalds was fine dining. When I moved out of the house and expanded my perspective, i realized how little I had known then. But if everybody else is happy, than I’m happy for them. Everything is perfect just like it is right now.
Although @11 makes some interesting points.
@13 You can get it at the following stores:
Seattle #42 (they have 9 units in stock)
Spokane (ok so this one is probably useless to you) #583
@15: Is there an online guide somewhere to availability?
@16 Yes! The LCB runs a searchable database that will tell you if they carry an item, what stores have it, and exactly how many bottles each has. Its a great resource that they should be showing off a little more.
@15 where did you find that? And I was told by several stores that they “will not order it anymore” so this is probably overflow stock from other stores. Granted if I bought even 3 bottles it would last us ages…
Follow-up: There’s now a link right on their main website entitled “Stores and Products,” if you follow it to “Find a Product” you can search for your item.
Do they have any mechanism for ordering more unique items beyond by the case still? I know other people in posts (Fnarf comes to mind) have complained because they like higher end spirits that run pricey, they can’t legally buy them unless they want to order a $300-$400 case. Or they can in theory buy online for a lone $40 bottle at risk of law enforcement.
@20 That I’m not sure of, and may depend on the local operator, but I don’t really know. I’ve asked about ordering at my local, and it didn’t seem like it was going to be a problem as long as the operator thought he could sell the other bottles, but I never got to the stage of actually placing the order so I can’t actually say.
@16: The WSLCB system isn’t perfect, but being a liquor snob gets a whole lot easier once you start playing around with http://www.liq.wa.gov/LCBhomenet/StoreIn…
“We asked .02% of the population of the state of Washington what they thought of the liquor stores, limited to a) who was home at the time of the survey, b) who has a phone number listed for the survey, c) who would actually answer the fucking phone for an unlisted number, and c)answer our damned questions. We found that this wide breadth of people like you, the people paying us, and gave you an A-grade. There is absolutely no bias in this survey at all.*”
*Actual bias may be in this survey
WSLCB needs an iPhone app for where to find specials and which store has the stuff you need.
Preferably with Angry Birds divebombing people trying to get into the store …
@15/@22: That’s awesome! Something useful did come out of this survey after all. Thanks!
@10, if 77% gave the liquor stores B or better across the board, why did 47% vote for the 1100 overhaul? Yeah, they align SO FUCKING WELL. Asshat.
@23, you bring up a good point about using a telephone survey as this is current issue with election polling. They likely captured an older demographic.
It would seem that your laws are similar to PA’s. I always have to make a special trip to pick up wine (can’t get it at the grocery store), can’t pick up a bottle on Sunday without finding one of the select stores, and can’t get wine delivered to my door.
uh, how was this survey conducted? WHO did they survey?
I don’t know anyone who isn’t somewhat irritated by Washington State liquor laws…mainly, people who have lived in OTHER states.
My main beef: horrid selection.
In that case, why not take over grocery sales as well? Think of the revenue!
@15 You have inadvertantly hit the precise pressure point. There is ONE STORE within 200+ miles that has a few bottles of a pretty common spirit. If you lived in Olympia, Bellingham or Kelso, you would be screwed. That big store on 4th Ave South is useless to virtually anyone outside King County, and even then, it is a joke compared to “super stores” in other states.
The search feature on the WSLCB web site is cute, but mostly it tells you what you CAN’T GET because of where you live.
What is baffling is how Goldy can be pro-reform for other elements of the state’s financing schemes, like regressive consumption based taxing, but is locked in the 1930’s bootlegger system when it comes to liquor. Is there some sort of hidden reason, like a family history of alcoholism? It’s like Joel Connelly’s occasional bursts of catholicism on social issues. Very confusing.
Fuck public opinion. Access to alcohol is a civil rights issue. It should be decided in the courts.
People who’s livelihoods depend on these ineptly run stores, i.e. bar and restaurant owners, favor privatization all but unanimously. We are the ones who are most adversely effected. I’ve been purchasing liquor from state run stores for 7 years and have had to go across state lines to get what my customers depend on me for. We are like pharmacies. You come to me with your ailment and leave all better. WSLCB doesn’t care if you get your prescription and because they have a monopoly (isn’t that illegal?) you have to suffer needlessly. Also being state employees, their customer service is about as high a priority as for a meter maid.
My objection to state owned liquor stores is one of political philosophy.
As a general rule, the state should not condone a monopoly, or control a monopoly, unless the state has a compelling public interest in doing so.
The tax revenue isn’t a compelling argument. If properly regulated, there is no reason the state couldn’t generate just as much tax revenue from privately run liquor stores. If tax revenue is your main argument, then the state should take over Microsoft as well, and any other profitable industry too, right?
Nanny state control of what and where I drink isn’t a compelling argument. It is left-over prohibitionist thinking. Arrest me if I drive drunk. Arrest me if I buy booze for minors. But I should have the freedom to buy whatever booze I want for my own private consumption without the state dictating when and where I can buy it, and what products I can buy.
The scare of minors buying booze at corner stores is not compelling. Employees of state liquor stores are trained to check for ID, and monitored. There is no reason that private store employees can’t likewise be trained and monitored. Private stores that break the rules could get their license revoked. With proper rules and enforcement, there is no reason this should be any different at a private store than a state-owned store.
In short, you have not shown a single compelling reason that the government should own a state controlled monopoly of this product. You’ve merely shown a survey that some people don’t mind it too much.
What are those same figures for local grocery stores? What would the survey respondents’ satisfaction index be if they were purchasing those same products in their local grocery stores, as most states permit? I will go way out on a limb here and predict they’d be much, much higher.
Alcohol is a LEGAL product for use by adults. Why is it being sold in this manner? Why don’t we have state-authorized monopoly condom stores? Cigarette stores? A product is either legal or it is not. This hodgepodge is absurd, wasteful, and a legacy of the most unholy marriage between bluenose Puritans and nanny-staters.
And one more note: my complaint has never been with the hours, locations, or employees of the state liquor stores, although they are in many cases, less than satisfactory. My complaint is that the whole idea of the WSLCB itself is antiquated, unnecessary, and overly intrusive. The WSLCB becomes a club with which to enforce a certain type of societal conformity that I find personally distasteful (their iron hold over any venue that might have both nudity and alcohol, for instance). My complaint is that other states manage to sell liquor in Safeway without having toddlers staggering drunkenly down the street at 2 a.m. We do not NEED the state liquor stores.
I wish there was a store closer to the 23rd and Jackson area. But, you know, whatev’s.
I’ve lived in states where you can buy booze at the grocery, and sure, it’s super handy, especially with groceries that stay open later than the latest WA Liquor Store.
But I’d much rather see an INCOME TAX ON THE RICH before we split out the liquor thing. Grr.
I’m a born and raised washingtonian who lives in walking of two liquor stores. (North Seattle)
They are there when I need them, and I’ve learned to take care of my needs during business hours.
I do look forward to privitization, and hope the state funds generated by sales don’t chang too much.
The part of privitization I look forward to/wish for the most are boutique liquor stores, like we have wine cellars & speciality beer stores.
Goldstein is absolutely the shittiest of all of Slog’s shitty “‘journalists”.
Well said #33.
Also if you ever drive to California, stock up at BevMo. It’s fuckin’ 2-for-1 pricewise and the selection is fantastic.
Unanswered question: How many of these “respondents” ever actually GO TO A LIQUOR STORE? For all we know, my mom was part of the poll, and she never goes near. She’s going to tell you all the liquor stores are great – because during the last election cycle that’s what her public employee union told their members to tell pollsters.
@40: Actually if you go to the poll that question IS answered. In fact, they polled more non-customers than customers!
Really, who cares if non-customers think they’re doing a good job? It’s not as if those people are shopping at a competitor’s store (since there arent’ any). They’re not buying liquor at all, so who cares what they think???
Why do you let this retard post his stupid fact-free blather?
It’s a poorly constructed survey, and does not ask very useful questions. Further, even if I were to say that these questions were terribly important, they’re only part of the picture; taking these results and then saying that there isn’t anything wrong with the liquor stores is an act of profound stupidity.
I don’t believe that it is the fault of the state for the “lack of variety”. The state is not responsible for the importing of any liquor into the state. That is the job of the many importing and distribution companies in the state. Companies like Youngs Columbia and Southern Wine & Spirits. They are the ones who actually bring liquor into the state (like all states). If anyone is at fault for the “poor selection” it would lay in their hands. The State can only purchase from these companies what they offer.
Also, there is a great selection of rarities and specialty items at several stores in the greater Seattle area. 4th Ave South, 7th & Bell, Crown Hill, University Village, and 12th & Pine are some of the area with the best selection. So far, that’s SoDo, Belltown, Crown Hill/Ballard, U-District, and Capitol Hill. That is a shop with specialty items in almost every “youthful” neighborhood in the city. all of the above mentioned shops are shops opened on sundays, have later hours, and parking (with the acception of Crown Hill).
lastly, I imagine that most of the nay-sayers here go out to bars. Do you complain to the bartenders about there selection? Do you have a bar that you like to go to because it has a great selection of items? Where do you think they get those items? They get them from their local liquor store. Keep that in mind the next time you go to places like Quinns, The Whiskey Bar, The Liberty, most fancy/up-scale places in city that have an “amazing selection” of spirits.
@44, you’re an idiot.
The WSLCB only has certain products because it only goes through certain distributors who only have those products – AND BECAUSE THEY HAVE NO COMPETITIVE PRESSURE TO FIND OTHER DISTRIBUTORS. DUH! To get different products. A private run retail store, or private run distribution network will seek out rare and unique products at the request of – get this, it’ll blow your mind — the CUSTOMERS.
And, yes, lots of bars have unique products because they paid for an entire case, or in some cases they imported across state lines. Neither is really an option for an individual consumer in this state, but is entirely unnecessary in states with realistic retail iquor stores.
@45: Thanks. I was trying to find a nice way to say that.
Liquor stores up here in Alberta were privatized some time ago. Prices initially went down, but now, some fifteen years later, our prices are consistently higher than those of provinces with government controlled liquor boards. Economy of scale seems to be the main factor there. Except in the big cities, there is less variety now, too. In the old days, a store in a small town could order one bottle of something unusual at a time – it came from the big government warehouse, and there was no minimum order. Now, individual businesses are dealing with the distillers and importers, and have to buy by the case. In our two big cities, that’s not a problem – specialty stores opened up. In rural areas, though, which is most of the province, a small store can’t afford to have a case of something sitting on inventory for a year or more, so they don’t stock it.
So we have one pro – more selection in the cities, and two cons – less selection in small towns, and higher prices across the board. All in all, not a successful move.