African American voters in California voted overwhelmingly for Prop 8, writing anti-gay discrimination into California’s constitution and banning same-sex marriage in that state. Seventy percent of African American voters approved Prop 8, according to exit polls, compared to 53% of Latino voters, 49% of white voters, 49% of Asian voters.

I’m not sure what to do with this. I’m thrilled that we’ve just elected our first African-American president. I wept last night. I wept reading the papers this morning. But I can’t help but feeling hurt that the love and support aren’t mutual.

I do know this, though: I’m done pretending that the handful of racist gay white men out there—and they’re out there, and I think they’re scum—are a bigger problem for African Americans, gay and straight, than the huge numbers of homophobic African Americans are for gay Americans, whatever their color.

This will get my name scratched of the invite list of the National Gay and Lesbian Task Force, which is famous for its anti-racist-training seminars, but whatever.

Finally, I’m searching for some exit poll data from California. I’ll eat my shorts if gay and lesbian voters went for McCain at anything approaching the rate that black voters went for Prop 8.

420 replies on “Black Homophobia”

  1. @375

    Where am I being a typical white condescending asshole? You just secured my fact by lashing out at me and my skin color over a simple observation. Thank you for playing the Slog.

  2. It confuses me that black people are now being seen as homophobes for this vote, but nobody has labeled the white LGBT community as racist for trying to put the blame on blacks for this vote, well I’m doing it now.

    Grow up people, being black does not mean you have to be liberal or even are liberal, just like being a christian doesn’t mean your conservative. I don’t think any black sits around thinking about how to help other groups overcome discrimnation, because we still face so much of it and I don;t see too much of the LGBT community focusing on that, just their own issues. Every minority group battles its own type of discrimination and it is impossible to compare those struggles to one another, ie gay civil rights issues are not equal to black civil rights issues. Sorry they just are not and never will be, and that’s okay.

    But if we do want to talk about the LGBT community, most of this community has excluded or denied the AA LGBT community, esp. in the HIV/AIDS issue and this has been acknowledged widely thru the LGBT community, so how one-sided for the LGBT community to just expect that blacks will fall in line with them at their time of need when in the past they have not done the same.

    Yes there is a lot of homophobia in the AA community, but they are not to blame on failings of Prop 8.

  3. (sighs)

    dan, please don’t.

    please don’t make generalizations about black people being homophobic

    and then say there is just “a handful” of racist white gay men

    where are you getting these “handful” numbers? and how can you *possibly* make that comparison? please don’t direct your anger about prop 8 not passing at black people. it’s divisive. and, honestly, scary.

    this reads like a craigslist rant, like an attack ad, like a gay version of conservative talk radio. please stop abusing your power as a widely-read writer.

    this is exactly why i don’t read the stranger anymore except for control tower. please please please get back to your progressive roots before it’s too late.

  4. Dear Dan,

    You say that the people who will benefit the most from “confronting” the homophobia in the AfAm community are black gays and lesbians. But as has become apparent, the people who are hurt the most by posts like yours are the significant 30% of black voters who rejected Prop 8 and care deeply about marriage equality.

    I don’t know if this was your intention, but your post has become part of a “black people are the gays’ main enemy today” mentality. That’s insanely disrespectful of black people, and you know who’s hurt the most by that? Black gays and lesbians.

    Shame on you, sir, not for your (justifiable!) pain and frustration, but for hiding your momentary bigotry in this “I’m just looking out for black gays and lesbians” meme.

    Those people (and their allies within the African American community) have been fighting the battle against discrimination on two fronts, and they deserve more support and respect.

  5. Hi Dan,

    I met you this March when I brought you to Penn to speak. I must say that I am very disappointed in your comments. You divide and blame approach is merely fueling the divide and conquer system we already live in.

    Yes there is a significant amount of homophobia within the black community. You treat a group of people like shit for 300 odd years, with the only sense of hope being in religion. And the religion you give them is the “white mans religion”, as it where. You emasculate their men for 300 some odd years and in a society which caters to traditional views of what being a “man” means, you make it so that they cannot do so, that is be a “man”. So when one black man calls another black man “gay” they feel even more need to defend their masculinity then their white counterpart making homophobia even more ingrained so now they’ve created this black, homophobic, culture who is deeply religious; who is pushed to the side. And when the gay marriage proposition comes up {lgbt folk] do very little to cater to the [ethnic] minority vote until the last minute.

    Then YOU have the nerve to blame them out of all the other groups that voted yes. Really??

    Will you take the blame for the hatred and division you have caused now?

    P.S. – Ever think that maybe these people voted yes because they are so religious and not because they are black…

  6. Okay, how DO we reach out to the AA and other communities that hate us? If they don’t consider our struggle to be in any way related or comparable to their own, if trying to make relationships is somehow offensive, then we are left with a sad conundrum… we need to come together but HOW?

  7. I’ve written a lengthy and detailed report on the history of the black community and gay marriage.

    http://socialdysfunction.ramseyisler.com/2008/11/09/blacks-hate-gay-people-maybe-maybe-not-facts-and-figures/

    In short, it shows that if you compare a number of factors, including results from other gay marriage bans, blacks weren’t any more in favor of bans than whites. In fact, in many cases they were slightly more in favor of gay marriage.

    Also, a key point in that in that article, is that pollsters initially noticed a huge spike in opposition to Prop 8 when they actually read the “eliminates rights” language on the bill to the people being polled. Then a month later, after heavy campaigning from the opposition, things had changed.

    But polls are weird, and I talk about that in the report as well.

  8. The furor over Prop 8 has caused many of us in the the black community who do support gay rights to take a step backwards. The vitriol that has been spewed by the gay community over the past few days is startling to say the least. Immediately some black intellectuals stepped forward to take blame and to attempt to explain black homophobia without realizing or acknowledging that the measure would have passed with or without black support. Secondly, there have been endless posts about how Obama is to blame and after all the support he received from the gay community, blah, blah, blah. The reality is that one of the only groups that skewed towards McCain in larger numbers than they did for Bush in ’04 was LGBT voters. There has also been little or no recognition that the organizers failed to properly mobilize until it was too late and there was little to no outreach to communities of color. I think that one of the biggest obstacles to both sides understanding the other is the constant recitation of the similarity of the struggle between black people and gay people. I believe that gay Americans deserve the same rights as everyone else including the right to marry, however, I do not think for one moment that our struggle is or has been the same. We may be both fighting for equality but our paths have been markedly different and we need to get past the false equivalency arguments that attempt to obscure this fact. Lastly, when I read the hateful rhetoric used by some on this board and others, the fact that our struggles are so different came to mind because the first insult that many went to was the age old ‘N’ word with all the white power and rage that goes into making that statement. Rather than trying to understand why the majority of Californians voted for the measure, some attempted to parse the results to fit a narrative they deemed relevant and in the process many of us straight people of color understood that once again we are the first ones thrown under the bus. It is a little odd to call someone out on perceived bigotry by resorting to good old fashioned racism to make your point.

  9. I don’t give a fuck WHO voted for Prop 8. I don’t care if they were white, black, brown, purple, or blue. I don’t care why, or what possessed them to vote for it, or what pastor, priest, or minister encouraged them to vote for it. And I think it’s a goddamn waste of time to try to analyze exit polls to figure out what demographic was responsible or was not responsible for its passing. It shouldn’t have passed. Period, point, blank.

    It was fucking WRONG to vote for this bigoted proposition, no matter your religion or race or creed. Wrong. Wrong. WRONG. But it passed, and I am sick of having to read about who helped it pass and who didn’t and who’s saying that person is wrong for saying this particular person voted this particular way…it’s a waste of precious energy that should be poured into repealing this stupid, antiquated bullshit law. We need to regroup and refocus and try again. Blaming and in-fighting are not going to make that happen any faster. This kind of nonsense is counterproductive.

    My two cents.

  10. First of all. Just basic numbers. I haven’t read everyone’s posts, but what is the potential number that 70% of the sampling of blacks represents in this poll? Just curious. If you have 7 of 10 blacks voting for proposition 8 and 50 out of 100 whites voting for proposition 8…well I’d ask what’s your point?

    I could go on a rant, but in short, Dan Savage’s comments are shortsighted and do drench in racism and ignorance. Period. No doubt he will come up with some logical response to angry postings, but it was good for me to again be reminded that racism both in the queer community and the progressive community is vibrant. But I never forgot that. Ya’ll won’t let me.

    And regarding the few postings I read referring to the presidency, Obama supposedly didn’t win due to his race. This is what the “post-race” America is claiming. I don’t believe in a post-race America as much as I don’t believe in a queer-friendly America (as a queer black woman living in Chicago). Anyone who questions whether Obama is “appreciative” of what queers have done for him should possibly reflect on those old images of some house negro bowing down at anyone’s feet. Similarly, comments that address California’s black voters in such a tone are way off the mark of social justice, but do hit racism right on the bulls eye.

  11. First of all. Just basic numbers. I haven’t read everyone’s posts, but what is the potential number that 70% of the sampling of blacks represents in this poll? Just curious. If you have 7 of 10 blacks voting for proposition 8 and 50 out of 100 whites voting for proposition 8…well I’d ask what’s your point?

    I could go on a rant, but in short, Dan Savage’s comments are shortsighted and do drench in racism and ignorance. Period. No doubt he will come up with some logical response to angry postings, but it was good for me to again be reminded that racism both in the queer community and the progressive community is vibrant. But I never forgot that. Ya’ll won’t let me.

    And regarding the few postings I read referring to the presidency, Obama supposedly didn’t win due to his race. This is what the “post-race” America is claiming. I don’t believe in a post-race America as much as I don’t believe in a queer-friendly America (as a queer black woman living in Chicago). Anyone who questions whether Obama is “appreciative” of what queers have done for him should possibly reflect on those old images of some house negro bowing down at anyone’s feet. Similarly, comments that address California’s black voters in such a tone are way off the mark of social justice, but do hit racism right on the bulls eye.

  12. First of all. Just basic numbers. I haven’t read everyone’s posts, but what is the potential number that 70% of the sampling of blacks represents in this poll? Just curious. If you have 7 of 10 blacks voting for proposition 8 and 50 out of 100 whites voting for proposition 8…well I’d ask what’s your point?

    I could go on a rant, but in short, Dan Savage’s comments are shortsighted and do drench in racism and ignorance. Period. No doubt he will come up with some logical response to angry postings, but it was good for me to again be reminded that racism both in the queer community and the progressive community is vibrant. But I never forgot that. Ya’ll won’t let me.

    And regarding the few postings I read referring to the presidency, Obama supposedly didn’t win due to his race. This is what the “post-race” America is claiming. I don’t believe in a post-race America as much as I don’t believe in a queer-friendly America (as a queer black woman living in Chicago). Anyone who questions whether Obama is “appreciative” of what queers have done for him should possibly reflect on those old images of some house negro bowing down at anyone’s feet. Similarly, comments that address California’s black voters in such a tone are way off the mark of social justice, but do hit racism right on the bulls eye.

  13. After spending your entire life flying in the face of the establishment, you would take some CNN exit polls as gospel? Maybe a little critical reading is in order Dan.

    This is what has me so worried about the tact we’re taking with No on Prop 8.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/pam-spaulding/the-n-bomb-is-dropped-on_b_142363.html

    http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/11/7/34645/1235/704/656272

    The day after the Presidential election, our one shining moment as a nation, I heard so much vitriol on NPR against Black and Latinos because of the passage of Prop 8 that it broke my heart.

    This is such an important topic. To let ourselves be conquered and divided once again, to be polarized, scapegoated, and splintered and let our tenuous alliances destroyed is something we can’t afford to do right now.
    Breaks my heart for gay and lesbian people of color.

    We aren’t monolithic groups. Can’t we recognize this as a generational divide rather than a racial divide?

    On November 15th, we as a state are supposed to march against Prop. 8 and for the rights of ALL gays and lesbians . I’ll be there but who do I stand next to?

    Makes me so sad.

  14. Dan, you fucked up. I remember reading your hilarious columns in one of the Bay Area papers in the mid 90s, and I enjoy seeing you on Real Time. But that diatribe you wrote just comes off as pent-up racism being unleashed. You cite exit polls (plural) but the 70% number really comes from one poll (which could be seriously flawed). But before I go further, YOU HAVE TO DO THE MATH. Assuming the 70% figure is correct (it probably isn’t), if the 500,000 black voters instead voted 70% against prop 8, there would be a swing of 400,000 votes. But still, this is not enough to defeat prop 8. Even if black people voted overwhelmingly against Prop 8, it still would pass. So are you going after Latinos next? Dan, you’ve just sunk to the depths of that same, tired-ass race-baiting bullshit. And you should know better. You KNOW that 90% of Republicans (a much larger group; none of whom are black) voted for Prop 8, but no, IT’S DE BLACK MAN’S FAULT! I would never vote for something as stupid as Prop 8, but I would seriously consider telling a pollster I did, just to piss you off.

    You wept for Obama’s win, yet you vote for him despite his stance against gay marriage and his half-assed attempt to speak out against Prop 8. Is this particular black person’s opinion on gay marriage acceptable to you? If so, how is this different than the black people who voted for Prop 8 but don’t have schizophrenia? You can’t win a war against black people (since we don’t care to fight you), but if you DO war with a black person over this, you should start with our new president.

  15. I never saw that gays could not buy homes in the burbs or land deeds denying them access to those homes in better neighborhoods because they were Black depriving those families of upward moblity Marco. White Gay men had racially separate beaches, neighborhoods and clubs yes those same pained pissed off gay White Men and Women practiced the same segeregation too in the good ole U.S.A. and it’s probaly that legacy that tells blacks to produce 3 types of I.D’s at gay clubs today.

    You can rant like a 10 y.o. starting a fight and blame blacks instead of lousy planning by your advocates for this amendment failing. It’s one thing if you did all you could politcally on the grassroots and Blacks still voted 70-30 then you may have an argument, the white GLBT community has utter contempt for Afro- Americans unless it is a fat black woman singing disco or techno songs. I voted No on prop 2 in florida but for now on since Afro- Americans are persona non grata in the white gay mind as an ally then reach out to Republicans if you can flip them that’s your concern not mine.

    I don’t want to hear about your issues anymore some of those in the white racist gay community can stick it where the “Sun don’t shine” after reading some of the most racist words on Savage’s and Daily Kos from White Gays and Lesbians. I could care less about their wanting to get married, If you ain’t ready to fight and die like those in the Civil Rights Movement to secure those rights then STFU and have you little pride festival marches and Shirley Q. liquor concerts and read Tom of Finland books and take your medicine like good little boys and girls. Or take a weapon, march and do what’s required for freedom.

    Those Black and Pureto Rican Drag Queens and gays had more balls at Stonewall in 1969 than most of you “weak, racist, GLBT white benieficares of their brave act of self- defense.

  16. I just want to remind everyone that homophobia is a problem in the AA community because of Christianity. Christianity is white peoples fault!

  17. It fascinates and disturbs me on so many levels; First, I was appalled at the percentage of available voters in the Black community. As a Brooklyn Boy living in LA, I had to adjust to the “visual” segregation in this state. Now I’m saddened to see the numbers (6%). I thought they were just hiding my Negroid Brothers and Sisters. It’s obvious the numbers of available Black voters are extremely low.

    Secondly, The mainstream Caucasoid gay community, constantly neglect to create multi-cultural coalitions. It’s impossible to establish camaraderie for a cause with non-existent relationships. Allowing for a few token situations the settings in most gay environments are typically segregated.

    Thirdly, I witnessed a stronger campaign from the YES on 8 organizers. The NO on 8 organizers never fully took off. I didn’t see ya’ll. Incidentally, before you get at me, I still proudly post my NO on 8 sign on my front lawn, I donated, I signed, and I got married. Otherwise the only reference I had to this issue was the constant rotation of misleading YES ads. One in particular, ends with a sweet pre-pubescent, wide-eyed, Latina girl slightly cocking her head with obvious vulnerability. It implies somehow I could snap her neck with my fundamental rights. I also witnessed invariable placements of ads on sites like myspace. Irony is to watch vouguing clips tagged with these ads. Willie Ninja would be gagging!

    I understand the unfortunate support the YES on 8 constituents received from the religious right. However, back in the day, (referring to the civil rights movement as is often done), shit was done with mimeograph sheets, and knocking on strangers doors where you might get your ass kicked. Was it really an all- encompassing grass roots movement? Attention and education to the proposition wasn’t always available. We were invisible. One needs to step out of their core group in order to be fully effective. In not doing so, creates this bubble environment where we deal only with like-minded people. Caught up in agreements over brunch doesn’t reach the ill advised. I say this for all of us; Occasionally, we must step out of our circles.

    Fourth… When the hell did our Negroid Peeps get so much “electoral juice”? I had no idea your vote actually mattered that much. Aware of this information we should propose an infinite number of propositions that would benefit an otherwise neglected group.

    Yo, Let me wrap this shit up.

    When I moved to Cali, I was presumptuous to think it was full of yoga lovin’, granola eatin’, and nouveau hippies of all colors. Shit, I had that on my old block in Harlem and before (gentrification) that in the LES. I discovered that it ain’t yoga but many of these individuals are bent up for different reasons. The fear of the Brown man and woman is the biggest one. I observe as people create this façade of selective tolerance. I’ll tolerate Juan as long as he does my lawn and stays outside… I’ll tolerate Leroy because he has a uniform on… I’ll tolerate Darryl ‘cause he has a big dick. When the fuck are we going to get passed all this shit?

    By the by, I did not attend any rallies after the election. I’m an angry Puerto Rican, if I heard the n word once, I would have beat some dumb motherfuckers ass and taken my white husband home.

    Thank you for your time.

  18. # 397 said :
    That is utterly ridiculous — black people don’t owe you a damn thing (and I say this as a black queer butch woman). Black folks don’t owe you even if you — personally — commit the total of your power and privilege as a white man to ending institutional racism
    ____

    This is pretty cool isn’it ?
    This black woman is making it crystal clear, dear white folks, that there is *nothing* you can do that will win her favor. In typical POC(tm) fashion, she just wants you to self flagellate endlessly and she has absolutely no intention of ever forgiving you and she probably reserves the right to insult and belittle you at will, because, after all you’re priviledged and that’s all you deserve. Like many POC)tm) on this thread , she probabably thinks that you did absolutely nothing special by voting for Obama. On the other hand, you can be 100% sure that had you voted for McCain , you’d be seen by her and other POC(tm) as cancerous , maligant racists. I don’t thnk there’s any doubt about that.
    I do like the fact that this woman actually gives away the real game : a lot of POC(tm) talk about white folks being possible allies. Those are white folks who “commit the total of your power and privilege as a white man to ending institutional racism ” . Our queer black butch woman actually tells it like it is : You can not be her ally. You are her ennemy. She is at war with you. And you are not allowed to defend yourself, because that’s priviledged and therefore supremely evil …

  19. It is wrong to call an entire group of people (African Americans) homophobic just because they did not vote the way the gay rights groups thought they should vote. After all, there are white people who did not vote for Obama, but it does not mean that they are racist? Furthermore, Gays come from every race, creed and color so when a blanket statement against African Americans is made, it is made against the African Americans who are straight, gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgendered. If the behavior of those gays who were upset (Some gays were calling Blacks the N word during protesting) with the outcome of Proposition 8 is any indication of the level of racism within the gay community, then the gay rights leaders need to look inward at themselves for answers and stop blaming African Americans for their failures.

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