Only 31% of black Democrats in America say homosexual relations are morally acceptable, roughly the same as the 30% of Republicans who agree, while very much different from the 61% of nonblack Democrats who say homosexual relations are morally acceptable….
Just 30% of black Democrats say they would agree that marriages between same-sex couples should be recognized by law as valid, compared to 57% of nonblack Democrats. Black Democrats are not quite as conservative on this policy issue as Republicans (among whom just 22% favor legalization of same-sex marriage), but are closer to Republican attitudes than to nonblack Democratic attitudes. And, as noted at the beginning of this story, black Democrats’ views on the moral acceptability of homosexual relations are almost identical to those of Republicans, and the attitudes of both blacks and Republicans are significantly different from the attitudes of nonblack Democrats on this issue.
One of the underlying explanations for the divergence between the views of black and nonblack Democrats on these moral issues is religion. Black Democrats are much more religious than nonblack Democrats, and religion is highly related to views on homosexual relations.
Black Democrats Almost as Bad as White Republicans on Gay Issues
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@50. You’re right. And I’m not trying to put an overly-pretty picture on this. We have strong support among our straight allies, but there is far too much apathy among straights. And then there are the hostile ones. I think my point is that more and more, as years go by, the strong support is quickly gaining ground on the apathy, and especially the hostility.
Your point about Saudi Arabia and Iran is a very good one, and (he may come in and tell me I’m full of shit), but I think this is what was mostly behind Dan’s support for the Iraq war. Straights forget that this goes on. Leftist progressives who love, love, LOVE Palestine and so harshly criticize Israel conveniently forget that being gay in Israel isn’t a virtual death sentence the way it is in Palestine.
In the 90s, during the genocide in Rwanda, I often wondered if we’d have gotten involved if it was white people killing blacks, instead of blacks killing other blacks.
Americans have some fucked up rules on what we “should” get outraged about.
Dan Savage has a well-documented animosity towards people with dark skin.
NEVER forget that this is the man who loudly advocated for the invasion of Iraq, which has left hundreds of thousands of Iraqis dead.
The importance of the Black Church in the Black Community cannot be ignored nor disrespected. The Black Church, is the ONLY institution in the history of the United States, that from its conception:
protected, incubated, supported
BLACK HUMANITY.
There is not one other institution in the history of this country that has done that.
When the official position of this country was that Black folks were 3/5ths, there were church meetings amongst the slaves, telling them something different.
When Jim Crow ruled this land with an iron fist, there was the Black Church, telling people that there was another way.
When you had folks toiling in the fields, working in White folks houses, being demeaned everyday from sunup to sundown, on Sunday, there was a community that told you – you were worth something.
Good luck trying to insult the Black Church and thinking that’s the way to bridge the gap.
Gay marriage is seen as a RELIGIOUS issue. Not one of Civil Rights.
Keep on thinking that attacking Religious folks is the way to go.
Rikyrah, that’s like saying the Catholic church should be off limits because it was the only institution that help the Irish maintain a sense of themselves under British protestant rule, or that the Orthodox church should only be criticized with caution because so many Greeks still feel that their culture/nationality are bound up with it.
If you treat clergy with kid gloves, they’ll start to act crazy, just like anybody else. All you’ll end up with is the black version of the Borgias or Rasputin. Nobody should be above the law; the laws should be the same for everybody.
And the sooner a community develops institutions outside religion, the better. Only small tribes should be ruled by their witchdoctors.
One thing the defeat of prop 8 has done, is enlighten me as to the significant number of racist queens there are out here, and for that I will be eternally grateful. I think many gay people simply won’t ever get it, comparing sexuality and race issues, is simply silly. How many of you queens on here ever heard of a closet black person? Your identities are based upon certain sexual urges, usually beginning at or around puberty, my racial identity was evident from the moment I came out of my mother’s womb, actually even before that, because my mother’s ethnicity determined mine. You can, and many prominent among you have hidden your sexual preference for expedience. You have never been denied the right to vote, you have never been enslaved and on and on.
The problem with the gay community is that it arrogantly assumed that its struggle for gay rights automatically meant it would find some sort of natural solidarity with blacks because of their struggles for racial justice. Even though most gay people, especially the kind found in trendy parts of L.A. and S.F., would otherwise have no use for black people at all. As someone who believes in gay rights and equal justice for all, I must say that it will be an extremely long time (considering the garish racism displayed here and across the board; by gay men in particular) that I will lose any sleep worrying about white elitist gays and their inability to marry.
As for the people in Africa, believe me they have bigger problems to worry about, problems way more important that Adam not being able to marry Steve. This disgusting display of gay-racism will only calcify opinions in the black community. I have to admit, I’m feeling a little homophobia taking hold over me, even as I type this response. That’s all I have to say to you bunch of racist homosexuals on this sight.
Adieu,
k in MA
#37
You hit the nail on the head. “Straight dominance” must end. That is the only way we are going to be able to win long-term. The LGBT must start producing the next generation of political, academic, scientific, artistic, and business leaders. We are starting to do somewhat well in areas of politics, but that’s about it. We’ve got to plan long-term – for example, by helping the education of gay youth.
#46
Straight alliances are nice, but we shouldn’t rely upon them. We should be able to pull our own weight. Allies should be considered an added bonus. Remember that before Hitler took over, Berlin used to be quite liberal towards gays. But that turned 180 degrees quickly under Hitler’s spell – would that have happened if there were many straight allies standing for the rights of gays? The point is, while in these fairly easy times we can seek the help of straight allies, when the chips are down its just us who will be ready to take care of each other.
Chris in Tampa –
When whites are still the MAJORITY, meaning there are more of them than ANY other group – and there is still a high enough percentage of them that don’t support the gay marriage initiatives, don’t you think that trying to change the minds of 60% of 12% is less important than changing the mind of whatever percentage of the majority race?
And as far as Dan and his never ending posts on where African-Americans stand on this is – well, it’s like smoking to cure cancer. Might feel good for a minute, but it only makes things worse.
The race baiting, and blatant racist remarks that have been posted in the comments since the November election only go to show that racism is as alive and well in the gay and atheist communities as it is in others.
Someone doesn’t agree with you, so instead of ringing the doorbell and having a civil conversation about it, you throw a brick through their front window, and people standing behind you (whether you invited them or not) start chanting racist remark and vicious name calling.
What are the chances that the person inside wants to have any dialogue with you on the issue now? What are the chances that instead of changing hearts and minds, you harden them against you?
Keep it up, and you’ll turn those who support you into people who hate you and want to hurt you. And by hurt I mean continue to vote against initiatives that assist you, and voting for those that hurt you.
I, for one, will never again read any of Dan’s posts on this issue, or click on the comments about them. A line has been drawn now, that didn’t exist for me before.
Teabag –
Can’t say I disagree with a word you said.
“Tonight on Action News, gay blogger Dan Savage explains why he’s decided to abandon his blog and devote all of his energy to killing as many members of the black electorate as he possibly can.”
“I’m deeply offended that my glorious white presence on this plant has to be shared with those rumbling, brick-breaking darkies” Mr. Savage says in statements recorded earlier.
“Those damned, dirty apes! They won’t let me marry! How dare those monkey’s! How dare they!”
I had no idea that when Dan speaks, he commits typos in grammar errors.
“Also on Action News, on tonight’s ‘Where’s the Outrage’ segment, we interview website comment-poster Jade and ask why being a grammar nazi is more important than ignoring the racist bomb-throwing of blogger Dan Savage.”
Karma!
Niggers are so cool!
And how well did Gallup do in poll predictions? I didn’t realize Dan Savage was such an asshole.
I came to this post via Andrew Sulllivan’s blog. (Remember him, Mr. MuscleGlutes on aol looking for dick, preaching against Bill Clinton). He also seems rather gleeful in reporting this obviously flawed poll.
I guess Andrew prefers begging for Black Dick up in Ptown, but likes to slam black people in public. How bout you Dan? You Scumbag Asswipe. Are you teaching your kid to hate black people to?
I love to buttfuck niggers!!!
Honestly, since we all know that it’s religious democrats that are causing the correlation, could we please start framing this as “only X% of religious democrats say that homosexual relations are morally acceptable.” The fact that more blacks than whites are religious is tertiary and not causal. So why does the headline read “black people disapprove of homosexuality?” It’s provocative in a non-constructive way, and framed in a way that encourages people to draw incorrect assumptions. This poorly represented data is both scientifically AND ethically frustrating!!!
@ 55
“You have never been denied the right to vote, you have never been enslaved and on and on. “
Actually, Kayla, neither have you. What the AA community is dealing with today are the aftershocks of slavery – the slaves themselves are dead, and the slaveowners are dead. I’m not saying those aftershocks aren’t huge problems themselves, or that your points don’t have any merit – but you drop the ball when you ham it up the way you are.
“How many of you queens on here ever heard of a closet black person?”
Yes, yes, it’s very true that black people have never had the option of being in the closet. But have you ever heard of a black person being born into a family of white supremacists? Of course not. Yet gay kids are born into families that despise them all the time. Each group has their particular burdens to bear that are unique to them. I guess everyone feels they’ve suffered more, and that they should somehow get some pathos credit passed onto them from their less-fortunate predecessors. I’m not really sure how that’s relevant as to the question of what’s the right vs. wrong way to treat someone. No one “earns” rights by pain. We earn them by being human.
“I have to admit, I’m feeling a little homophobia taking hold over me, even as I type this response.”
Yes, I can tell. I can’t say I’m surprised, because some of the shit people are saying on here is completely toxic. I always thought *I* was king toxic, but I hand my crown to…well, all of you.
Oh, and by the way, it’s worth stating why black people are more religious than white people in the first place. It’s because their communities have been so marginalized as to make the traditional values and community bonding practiced through the church a safe haven for black families. So it’s not like black people are just more ignorant than white people, as demonstrated by their religiousness and their gay-hating. It’s that black communities, largely because of socioeconomic oppression, are more susceptible to religion and religion, for all its salvation, promotes gay hating. So seriously, this shit is ridiculous. I would say it’s also irresponsible of you Dan, but I highly doubt that anyone is taking you seriously. The MSM, however, is a different story.
Oh hi look I’m a Canadian so I don’t really want to get involved in this family argument. Because you guys are heavily armed eh? But I just want to point out…. hey you don’t shoot !!! ….that what you are really looking at really correlates more with income and education than race. Many Blacks and Hispanics are poor and uneducated and the churches play a bigger roles in their lives because of that. But many wealthier and more educated blacks voted against Prop 8. So yes homophobia when it comes from other oppressed groups really is depressing.
And the generational thing should solve it in the end I hope. But in the meantime, fighting poverty, and getting more poor kids into universities, and reaching out and understanding each other is the only way to go…
I can’t believe I actually ever thought you were a smart person and role model of mine.
thanks for the random stats with no context in an effort not to confront your racism. I guess all those percentages some web sites list about us gay people in order to prove our immorality is also perfectly fine.
It’s amazing to see all sense of analysis and complexity leave somebody now that he’s been whipped into a frenzy over an institution that, now that it’s “gone” from California, hasn’t even affected the protections given to gay couples there.
time to start owning up to the fact that our movement is no longer about rights – it’s about trying to combat homophobia. That’s your actual obsession: acceptance.
You may have a point, as far as it goes, about how party affiliation means different things to different racial groups. The Gallup poll does not, however, support your claims that black Americans are more homophobic than white Americans. Here’s why.
African Americans, Latinos, and Native Americans are disproportionately identified with the Democratic party. White and Asian Americans are about evenly split in their party affiliations or lack thereof (Democratic/Republican/Independent). The Gallup poll doesn’t account for that.
Taking these numbers as a guide, 75% of blacks and somewhere between 31% and 38% of non-blacks identify as Democrats. (Non-blacks identify as Democrats at a higher rate than whites do — 31% — but at a lower rate than overall Democratic identification — 38% — since blacks are the most disproportionately Democratic group.)
31% of the 75% of blacks who identify as Democrats support gay marriage: 23.25% of all blacks.
61% of the 31-38% of non-blacks who identify as Democrats support gay marriage: 18.91-23.18% of non-blacks.
Thus, it looks as if blacks and non-blacks support gay marriage in roughly equal numbers.
All the Gallup poll tells you is that socially conservative blacks are more willing than other social conservatives to vote with their class and other interests. They identify with and support Democratic politicians even though they disagree on moral issues at a much higher rate than non-black voters.
***
Also, Dan, seriously, listen to #38 and #39 and respond to the racism in these comment threads. This is truly despicable. I know that you don’t share their views, but it’s obvious to me that they think you do.
I see the racism of white gays is being openly displayed – and its no surprise! Black gays have always known this about you! Why do you think we have black gay pride days of our own, independent of yours? Some of you can cry about “down low” blacks who keep their sexuality secret – well, that’s better than being a down low racist who keeps his feelings secret in public but lets them out in cyberspace where he can be anonymous! It was CHURCH people who voted for Proposition 8, REGARDLESS of race – and the CATHOLIC CHURCH was the driving force behind the support for it! They got other churches to cooperate with them, including the racist Mormon polygamy church!
“Outreach” to the black community indeed – considering the racist reaction to proposition 8, I dont think that will work out too well! And considering all the racist comments ive seen on here about black people and about Africa in general – well, that tells me everything i need to know!
I hear you, ray. And Dan is responsible for (a) provoking the racists, (b) letting their posts stand without comment, and (c) failing to exhibit leadership qualities.
Everyone, please read carefully comment number 71. It’s time we injected some rationality up in this mofo.
I also should have pointed out that the poll doesn’t tell us anything about the racial breakdown of Repubican support for gay marriage (e.g., whether more non-black Republicans support gay marriage than black Republicans), but if the numbers are roughly equal and 41% of whites are Republican and 7% of blacks are Republican . . . well, you do the math. White Republicans would have to be six times more likely than black Republicans to support gay marriage in order to add equivalent percentages of white and black homophobes to our little tally. Not likely.
Thanks, Stephanie (@71), for putting the data into context.
And thanks, Dan (once again), for putting homophobia into its proper context: It is the doing of black people—and only their doing (the fuckers). So we win if we eliminate the homophobia there because its existence among the other races is insignificant and, apparently, irrelevant. Keep up the good work.
Way to go Dan Savage – maybe with all the hatred on this blog, we can send blacks like Deval Patrick, David Patterson, the Black Congressional Caucus and Barack Obama where they belong……oops, I forgot, they actually are trying to help us as we shoot ourselves in the foot. You won’t like what I am about to say, but, African Americans have rights we [and I am AA and gay], don’t have! But somehow, we are going to punish them for singlehandedly causing all the homophobia we have endured. Let’s start with the black homosexuals [oh I’m sorry, now that makes us homophobes]. When will the scapegoating stop? Did it ever occur to anyone on these blogs that maybe, the organized conservatives are trying to drive wedges between us AND THEY ARE SUCCEEDING! How stupid can we be to not see this? So, just how long are we going to keep defeating our own purpose? Until all 50 states have marriage bans? Why don’t people on these blogs start offering realistic insight instead of this hate-filled crap? Oh, again, I’m sorry [must be my blackness] but you all suddenly care soooo much about the homophobia I endure as a black gay man. Wow, I feel soooo much better [not]. Stop wallowing in self pity and get to thinking of ways to succeed at gaining rights for gays and lesbians. And give up on Dan cause, as I learned years ago when he was not receptive to my struggle as an African American gay man, Dan doesn’t have a clue [but suddening he cares about my struggle – at least the the part that deals with the black community].
77:” Did it ever occur to anyone on these blogs that maybe, the organized conservatives are trying to drive wedges between us AND THEY ARE SUCCEEDING! How stupid can we be to not see this?”
Now that’s just CRAZY TALK, Richard!
Why would conservatives want to see two pillars of the Democratic thugocracy at each other’s throats?
Why?!
The Big Tent can hold everyone!
Racist spoiled smart ass white Queers are welcome.
Homophobic brooding uneducated Blacks, come on down!
Gays have a friend in the White House again… don’t they?
(Did I see anyone chanting:
“we’re here! we’re queer!
we’re going to the White House!!”
this time like happened election night 1992??)
Blacks surely are euphoric to have the first Black President?
(even if he is actually just caramel colored)
Obama will make every one happy, won’t he?
What was it he was promising Gays….
now what was it again??
Dan- don’t let Richard scare you!
Keep on the case till you get to the bottom of the
“who done the gays dirty on Prop 8” mystery.
Follow those leads where ever they take you!
The importance of the Black Church in the Black Community cannot be ignored nor disrespected
Disrespeected. Let’s talk about the word. It is disrespectful to vote to deprive people of their civil rights. It is disrespectful to ridicule the Holocaust or praise Hitler. It is disrespectful to be an apologist for hate crimes (such as burning down Korean businesses). It is disrespectful to falsely accuse people of rape as the two very prominent black church and community leaders, Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton have. It’s disrespectful to call our President elect the N word. The black church and community have been very, very generous in ignoring disrespect given by those in the community to people in other communities.
When the black community and church starts giving the same respect it demands I will listen. Until then I will roll my eyes. This is just the same old same old- black people need to be given a lot more respect then they give or (at times) rightfully have earned.
@77. The goal: expanding the circle of rights and citizenship and recognition. The team: Democrats. Who drops the ball? And who are you yelling at?
@39. It isn’t just ‘religion’–it is a certain kind of religion. There are religious people for gay rights, usually in mainline and progressive catholic churches as well as reform synagogues, and there are religious people against gay rights, usually in evangelical and fundamentalist churches and orthodox synagogues. To say it is ‘religion’ is not at all helpful. It is the traditional Black Church and some other urban types of sects and denominations that support anti-gay sentiments.
And, Dan, you gotta check out Michele Wallace’s BLACK MACHO AND THE MYTH OF THE SUPERWOMAN. A young black feminist wrote a book about gender politics in the black community during civil rights/black power days. She told the truth. She was harangued for it, eventually forced to apologize. She peeled back the curtain and let people see how fucked up black men are about their masculinity due to racial oppression in the first part, BLACK MACHO. It truly is helpful for understanding the defensiveness of blacks on gender and sexual issues. (Patricia Hill Collins’ recent book is helpful, too.) I’ve actually been spending some time thinking about how some messaging could tap into the “I am a man” frame from decades past. Gay men and black men are often both denied their masculinity. I’m guessing, however, that straight and DL black men won’t be receptive to this message….either.
Which raises the question: when are black gays and lesbians going to stop telling us we’re racist and start telling us what will work?
To 67, Yeek: Actually, you don’t know whether or not Kayla has been denied the right to vote. Its not as though there aren’t living people in America today who were denied at the very least physically prevented from voting, such as literacy tests before the Voting Rights Act was passed in 1965.
Also, a black person can be born into a white supremacist family. Just ask the millions of biracial people in America who SHOULD be identified by all of their racial ethnicities, such as Barack Obama, but are generally only perceived as black. Not to mention, the black community isn’t immune to hatred of other black people. I once had a teacher ask if another student and i were related because we had the same last name and she was convinced we weren’t because I am SO much lighter than he.
This is at heart an issue of class and education with side effects of racism and homophobia. Numbers can be presented in such a way that they basically lie, so without proper context, this post is extremely irresponsible and counterproductive to gaining equality for everyone.
Dan doesn’t dig very deep. This issue is not as easily understood as any of these polls he’s been slapping around and he’s not equipped to deal with the complexity.
What is this eagerness to pin the tale on the Black donkey about?
It do not matter, I know gays personally know that it is wrong and have changed their ways. If you don’t repent you are going to hell anyway. Now they want civil rights,please get right. Two women together or two men how perverted is that. Nothing hard about it, gays just want people to accept their ways. You can change man laws to allow a same sex marriage but that will never be accepted in the eyes of God whom we all will face someday.
It is so sad that this world is in so much darkness towards this issue and yes, that is all it is an issue no truth about.