Last week, as Dan noted, a group of national religious leaders signed their names to a full-page ad that ran in the New York Times, denouncing the protests against Proposition 8 as mob violence and intimidation against religious organizations.
Granted, the “No Mob Veto” NYT ad was reasonably tame as far as the vilification of Prop 8 protesters goes. Still, the ad cried out for a clarifying response, which came today from Truth Wins Out, the organization run by Wayne Besen devoted to “fighting right-wing lies,” which responds to the full-page ad in the NYT with its own full-page ad in the Salt Lake Tribune.
In the “No Mob Veto” NYT ad, the assorted religious leaders vowed to fight together against the religious bigotry of the Prop 8 protesters: “We commit ourselves to oppossing and publicly shaming anyone who resorts to the rhetoric and anti-religious bigotry, against any faith, on any side of the cause, for any reason.”
In the Truth Wins Out ad in the Salt Lake Trib, Wayne Besen denounces “lying in the name of the Lord,” criticizes the No Mob Veto signers “for their disingenuous claim of religious tolerance and their posture as staunch defenders of the Mormon Church,” and lays out examples of religious bigotry espoused by the religious leaders themselves. (The most readable image I’ve found of the ad is at Towleroad.)
As Wayne Besen says, “These anti-gay activists are crying wolf on the Proposition 8 protests, but they actually are a wolf in sheep’s clothing that preaches religious tolerance while practicing the most defamatory form of religious bigotry. We refuse to permit this orchestrated campaign to rewrite history, nor will we allow some of the most notorious Mormon bashers in America to pose as friends of the Latter-day Saints.”
Reminds me of MLK’s Letter from Birmingham Jail, linked to by Dan last week. It was in response to an open letter by clergy criticized the civil rights marches. Truth Wins Out’s response is no Letter from Birmingham Jail tho.
No, Besen’s hitting on a relatively minor point here (news flash—religious leaders are often hypocrites!) but I’m glad someone’s documenting this type of hypocrisy, not to mention running it in full-page newspaper ads.
One wonders why nobody is torching their churches …
Maybe because the dangers they preach about, in their hate, are … FAKE?
of course, since Mormons hold real power in 3 small Western states, Utah, Idaho and Wyoming – the theory of political magnitude holds we should just keep the pressure on the church with the least voters – hence – our better fate will be assured
did I miss the post where Catholics, Fundies, Evangelicals and Southern Baptists became our friends – giant church networks, maybe 40 per cent of American voters, higher? – which makes Mormons look very, very puny
short term this is kinda fun, long term, a plan to continue to loose elections in every state
not even sure it qualifies as education – course, if more of those sweet Mormon boys move to Seatte, well, that is fine, but, hardly election related
The tension is palpable. I’m expecting a “the real LDS church” ad to come out with a list of “Christian facts revised by Smith” and a list of things the LDS church believes in that stands out from mainstream christianity.
Sometimes you gotta show people that they, too, are ostracized for their deepest personal truths. Denial is a bitter tool.
Wow, so conservative Christian demagogues are using their massive financial resources to pay for an ad campaign claiming that they are being unfairly victimized? Nobody saw that coming.
That’s the beauty of fleecing your followers out of their hard-earned cash under the guise of doing charitable work — buckets and buckets of spending money for church leaders to use as they see fit!
Whoops, I’m sorry — I guess pointing that out is “intolerant.”
Well now smart boy Will …
Torching churches is a tactic of the KKK and, is a federal prison term of 20 years or longer …. hate crime of course …
If your ass does’t not get shot gunned first …
#6
So what does the queer community do with its tens of millions?
Take a look at the total dollars flowing into the ten biggest orgs … lots of cash.
Church wealth has been a topic since the middle ages … and they spend it as they wish.
@6
No Prop 8 burned thru a pile of million$ in California, more in fact than the pro Prop 8 folks.
At least they got something for their money.
jackass
@5
Mormons are acutely aware that they are ostracized for their religious beliefs; hated in fact by the religious right, homosexuals, radical left, pro-abortion folks- did I leave anyone out?
Homosexuals are new to and amateurs at the ‘hating on Mormons’ game but join some distinguished evangelical company. That bed must be getting crowded.
You don’t do Mormonism because you think it will make you popular.
You do it because of deeply held beliefs, in a way that I think few Americans can relate to anymore.
The persecution doesn’t hurt, just reaffirms in the mind of Mormons that they are on the right side. To the extent that you can judge someone (or yourself) based on who dislikes you being hated by Savage and friends is a regular high for your typical devoted Mormon.
No denial here.
It’s called No Mob Veto. It’s so sickeningly un-aware.
What was Prop 8, after all, if not a mob veto on the civil rights of a minority?
“intimidation against religious organizations?”
Huckabee said on the Daily Show the other night that opposing gay marriage doesn’t make him a homophobe.
How could, then, opposing church-going make someone anti-religion?
Doesn’t preaching against homosexuality constitute “gay intimidation?”
You can’t have it both ways, fucked up Christian assholes. Now die!
@10: So this is hypocritical collaboration for the money and a personal LDS agenda?
Who woulda thought the whore of babylon would come riding a bike?
@7 & 8,
You are clearly the same person. Who the fuck do you think you’re kidding?
13- you’ve lost us…
@9: There is nothing disingenuous about political organizations spending its money on political campaigns. There is something deeply disingenuous about churches doing so under the guise of doing charitable work, just as there is something disingenuous about leaders of these wealthy and politically powerful organizations claiming that they are somehow members of an oppressed group when they are clearly not. Christians account for the majority of the population and cannot point to the fact that people are using their free speech rights to criticize them as evidence of anything approaching actual victimization.
Mega-churches like to pretend that all the money they collect in tithes and collection plates goes to soup kitchens, but the ad buy is a pretty clear illustration that this is not the case.
Apples and oranges, genius.
@16: Aw, crap. spending “their” money.
16…
Pro Prop 8 dollar$ came from individuals, not ‘churches’.
They wouldn’t be so dumb as to jeopardize tax status.
(Did anti Prop 8 churches spend their money?)
It’s what I’ve said all along. These so-called Christians are nothing more that organised hate. They are just waiting for a chance to start a new pogrom just like their murderous rampages throughout history. The fact is, people are sick to death of religious hypocrisy. “Goodwil toward men” has always been a big lie. They just proved it.
@7 – like I said, nobody’s doing that.
Try reading next time.
@18 – It’s perfectly legal for churches/nonprofits to advocate for political causes. What’s not legal is supporting specific candidates in an election.
If they can’t take the heat, stay out of the fucking kitchen!
@18: First of all, here’s a story about an investigation about how the LDS church may have illegally provided non-monetary support for the Yes On 8 campaign which they did not report. There are also numerous reports of them applying pressure on their membership both from the pulpit and individually to contribute.
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: Why would an Almighty God need to work His will through the election process? This kind of campaign bespeaks a profound lack of faith on the part of His followers.
@23
“First of all, here’s a story “
Yeah, a really old story.
About sore losers filing baseless complaints.
Which I guess is what you do until it occurs to you to mail white powder.
I suspect the churches involved consulted lawyers before hand.
Don’t hold your breath on this one.
23
My dear duelingbanjo;
Here is how it works-
The faithful get a chance to try to save the world. Influence their communities for good. Write their congressmen. Canvas the neighbors for support on a referendum. Donate their money and time to a worthy cause. Etc.
If they succeed it’s all good.
If they fail; if a society becomes so depraved that young innocent souls born into that society (who escape the abortionist blade, that is) have no chance to choose right (in other words if they are adopted out to homosexuals, if they are taught in elementary school that homosexuality is normal, etc) then the big guy has to step in.
At that point it is end of game.
See: Sodom and Gommorah;
“Can you find 50 righteous? 40? 30? 10? No? OK boys, head for the hills and don’t look back!”
The ‘followers’ have no lack of faith.
They just hope it doesn’t come down to plan B.
22
Who is ‘they’, Vince?
The folks who outlawed gay marriage in California state-wide ballots TWICE?
The folks who have outlawed gay marriage in 30 >THIRTY< states?
The folks who have kicked your butt to the tune of 30 to zero?
I’d say they own the kitchen. And the rest of the house. And that shed where you’ve been squatting is next on the list.
Did churches that support Prop 8 spend any resources?
Were there any churches that supported Prop 8?
Posters who are bashing Mormons – why not bash all of them, all our hardy opponents?
Catholic Church Bishops of California invited the Mormons aboard, via the former Bishop of SLC, now the Bishop of Sacremento. Jolly relationship with SLC church leaders.
And, the first big money chit was from the Knights of Columbus, a cool million.
Caltholic and other churches INCLUDING the Mormons were all belting out messages from the pulpits – all of them – thousands of churches in Calif.
I agree, it is sickening. But these folks have been on the other side of our gay issues for 30 years, and, when allied are formidable.
Our campaigned sucked, can’t blame the other side for that.
What to do about churches and gay issues seems to be the topic for us to tackle. and, no flip comments about burning them out – that sort of remark is of NO help.
And people of faith need to lead the discussion. Go away atheists and non believers who mock all religion. You are of no help at the moment, none at all.
Jean Paul
#23
Silly old stuff, you think churches have no access to good political and legal minds?
And they all do some politics on a reg. basis. Those charges are a waste of time, feel good dreaming, and will lead no where.
Sorry to puncture the balloon.
@28
You are wise
@25
ps
Homosexuality is certainly not the only factor that contributes to a society becoming totally corrupted.
How prevalent is the sexual abuse of children and how are perpetrators dealt with? What % of children are born to single women and will never know a ‘father figure’? What cultural influences are thrust on children (MTV, pornography,etc) and what chance do they have to reach even their teen years before becoming sexually active and pregnant and catching a STD. What are the educational opportunities for kids, esp poor ones?
Etc Etc Etc
In other words, what chance does a kid born into a society have to be exposed to and choose, if he/she will, proper moral values? What chance will they have to become a functional competent emotionally stable adult?
What chance do they have to grow up and be happy?
Now, the truth: Some of the tremendous good the LDS Church did today in the world…http://hollisterfreelance.com/lifestyles/contentview.asp?c=251718