Here's to hoping that the older we get the more of us will get off our lazy asses and start voting. Things can change. Things will change.

)h criminy pete for sakes, doesn't this site have drunk goggles? I didn't mean to post twice, or the first time, for that matter.

Thanks, Eagle : ) Nice to know you're out there, rounding up the voters!

See you at the polls!

@ 292 Of course, If you had said at first that "the tendency to believe in a religious faith MAY be hardwired in SOME people's brain", I would never have had anything to criticize about your post. That seems a rather fair assumption.

I also have nothing to say against the christian faith, I just wish more christians practiced it. You say you're one of those truly practicing christians. Great! Wish there were more like you.

You have every right to believe what you want to believe in, but I like people to be coherent and to practice what they preach, which in the end is what I think you 'll find behind all the anger here: resentment for being told how we should behave, and what rights we should have, by generally amoral people who don't follow their own rules. Its the hypocritical nature of religions that gets us so worked up.

Let us not forget that no institution or government has done more wrong in the history of this world than the vatican - by persecuting, killing / allowing or authorizing the massacre of millions of innocents, with the inquisition, the crusades and the conquest of the Americas, the covered-up sexual abuses, and the general ignorance in which they have tried to maintain the population throughout the centuries so no-one would question them. Unfortunately, the protestant religions, which began as an opposition to the morally corrupt catholic church, became themselves just as morally corrupt... We may rage about islam now, but they haven't yet reached that level (although I have no doubt they will, given some more time).

History has taught us that this is the nature of religions. We'd be foolish to ignore the lessons of History.

The fact of the matter is that I can't stop religious people from believing in whatever magic sky friend they want to believe in, nor should I want too. Whatever lifts your luggage, as they say. But that's only as long as it doesn't infringe on the separation of State and church and it doesn't hurt anyone. And sadly, in our world, in 2010, IT DOES.

Ricardo, I went to Catholic school, and the main thing I learned is that I never want to be a Catholic. *grins*

Fuck, YES! Amen to Pope Savage!

WTF? Religion is but a set of ideas and like politics which are also a set of ideas is not protected from satire, mockery and well just about any form of speech. As free citizens we can decide if something is sacred or not. No law can compel us to recognize something as holy. In the U.S. the first ten amendments to the Constitution trumps the Ten Commandments. That is why it is the US Supreme Court struck down all laws against blasphemy in 1954. We can call Jesus a fraud, Mohammad a jackass or mock the holy spirit with impunity. If this hurts your feelings I say get a life.

I know you probably won't get down to # 311, Mr. Savage, but thank you. What you have written here is relevant not only to teen gay suicide, but also to the across the board, farcical "who, me?" attitude of dominant and oppressive groups in our society.

You, Dan Savage, are a true hero. I have just spent almost three hours on the YouTube "It Gets Better" site and am in awe.....you have found a non-confrontational way to reach out, show compassion, provide hope and save lives. I am a straight single mother of three children and I am so worried about the world they are living in - it isn't just the hatred but the complete and utter lack of the ability to self-assess and recognize where and when discrimination is present in words and actions....WTF?!?! Anyway, I am babbling but I am truly touched by what you're doing and I will commit to spreading the word as best I can for you. True freedom is when you can live in your own skin without the fear of judgement and/or ridicule....fight for freedom! Thank you for helping to make the world a better place for my children!

"let's try to keep things in perspective: fuck your feelings."

Amen.

It cracks me up when Christians say, as LR does, "how do you justify judging entire groups of people for their faith?" It makes me think of when I was a young Jewish girl and the Christian students would bombard me with "well meaning" questions and comments. It makes me laugh to imagine me doing the same to them. To demand answers to why they don't believe what I do or to tell them plainly that they are wrong and going to hell if they don't. I could never do that because I was not allowed - only Christians can lay judgement and dictate other people's lives. They are the default and acceptable belief and we all must prove ourselves to them, never vice versa.

"Gay kids are dying" because they're being bullied by other kids (kids who attempt suicide are not always "gay") You are wasting time attacking the Mormon church when you could be doing something that might make a difference. Teach those you know about love, acceptance, tolerance. Let those of us who would live our lives in peace, do so. Volunteer at a school to help kids at risk see that they are worth something. Suicides are not usually because of a person's "gender" issues. Check it out...

"Gay kids are dying" because they're being bullied by other kids (kids who attempt suicide are not always "gay") You are wasting time attacking the Mormon church when you could be doing something that might make a difference. Teach those you know about love, acceptance, tolerance. Let those of us who would live our lives in peace, do so. Volunteer at a school to help kids at risk see that they are worth something. Suicides are not usually because of a person's "gender" issues. Check it out...

Just another reason why you are the most articulate spokesperson, that people who seek a rational, equal world could ever hope for. Bravo on a perfectly worded clear concise essay.

Seriously?? So, according to "you", it is "wrong" for religious people to "judge" others because of their sexual preference, but it's "ok" for "you" to "judge" people based on their whether or not they go to church?? Come on, you are doing exactly what you say you are against, and they're the hypocrite? Sure... While I am not a religious person myself, I consider myself to be a spiritual person, one who believes in a God that sees each and every one of us for who we truly are and what type of a person we are on the inside, whether black, white, rich, poor, and YES, even gay or straight. You cannot group and condemn all people that believe in God together while saying they're wrong for grouping and condemning those that are gay, without being a hypocrite. You might want to look at yourself before you start pointing fingers. And I'm already expecting you to make some type of a supposedly justified comment, so don't bother wondering if it's going to "hurt my feelings" because for that to happen, I would first have to actually "care" about your opinions. I'm not writing this thinking that any of my words would actually get through your thick skull, but to those who see every lover of God as a hateful, bigot. Some of us live in the world of grey and not black and white. Some of us have friends and family that are gay, even if we are not. Is that wrong? If so, then wouldn't it be wrong for any gay person to have friends or family that are straight? None of us are perfect, not one gay or straight person in the world. I don't know who you are, maybe a radio personality or something, I just saw this as a link from a friend's fb page and thought it would be an interesting read. Well, I was right, you made it interesting by giving me something to laugh at for a while. I'm definitely coming back to this site whenever I need a good laugh.

If ignorance is bliss, you must be the happiest man in the world, (:

Seriously?? So, according to "you", it is "wrong" for religious people to "judge" others because of their sexual preference, but it's "ok" for "you" to "judge" people based on their whether or not they go to church?? Come on, you are doing exactly what you say you are against, and they're the hypocrite? Sure... While I am not a religious person myself, I consider myself to be a spiritual person, one who believes in a God that sees each and every one of us for who we truly are and what type of a person we are on the inside, whether black, white, rich, poor, and YES, even gay or straight. You cannot group and condemn all people that believe in God together while saying they're wrong for grouping and condemning those that are gay, without being a hypocrite. You might want to look at yourself before you start pointing fingers. And I'm already expecting you to make some type of a supposedly justified comment, so don't bother wondering if it's going to "hurt my feelings" because for that to happen, I would first have to actually "care" about your opinions. I'm not writing this thinking that any of my words would actually get through your thick skull, but to those who see every lover of God as a hateful, bigot. Some of us live in the world of grey and not black and white. Some of us have friends and family that are gay, even if we are not. Is that wrong? If so, then wouldn't it be wrong for any gay person to have friends or family that are straight? None of us are perfect, not one gay or straight person in the world. I don't know who you are, maybe a radio personality or something, I just saw this as a link from a friend's fb page and thought it would be an interesting read. Well, I was right, you made it interesting by giving me something to laugh at for a while. I'm definitely coming back to this site whenever I need a good laugh.

If ignorance is bliss, you must be the happiest man in the world, (:

@mamasweetpea

Not every religious person, only the bigoted ones who espouse an unequal world, which sadly seems to be the majority, And especially unconstitutionally try and subvert our basic human civil rights at the ballot box. Why can't some Christians see that it isn't hypocritical to be intolerant of intolerance. See Sheryl's post on number 12 for an example of a Christian we have no issue with, and applaud. So yes we are bigoted against bigotry whether they are religious agnostic, or atheist. Talk about a thick skull...or a vestigial brain. Why can't you understand this???? No really why?

I would add that there are a lot of Christians who support gay marriage and absolutely do not believe that being LGBT means you're condemned to hell. But it is extremely upsetting that many people use a faith founded on acceptance in order to support their own bigotry and violence. From what I remember of Catholic school, Jesus went around accepting people others thought were "unworthy" of God's love.

OK, I could respond to every post here but I have already said so much. This will be my last post and since I can't figure out how to respond to the person directly (I am computer stupid) here are a few responses;
To ALL the Chrsitians who say "everyone is bulllied not just gay kids", If a black person is called the N word, it hurts more and affects them more than it does a white person, IF Gay kids are 4 times more likely to kill themselfs, and being called Queer and Faggot hits them harder than it would a straight kid, it is NOT a case of "everyone is bullied"!!
GrrrlRomeo poster188- I agree with you 100%, great post!
Posters 262, 267, 268 You all say thinsg well and things I agree with (while I am NOT an athiest, I am NO longer a Chrsitian after 50 years). 269, YES! Great points and well said!!

gabrielg78 poster 261- You compleatly missed the point of everyone on here who critisized religion/Chrstianity. You whine that we are useing YOUR own biggoted tactics against you and also that attacking Christians are wrong casue Islam is worse! If YOU Christians had your way you would (and do in Africa) KILL people just for being Gay! You think your choice is valid and everyone else is wrong! You have the ARROGANCE to think YOU have the one true way! YOU DO NOT!! Being Gay is NOT a choice and being a BIGOTED CHRISTIAN IS!

Mamasweetpea-

It's okay to judge people who are saying untrue things like religious people of your type do to gays. That's different than judging a sexual orientation that doesn't involve slandering or hurting anyone. Very easy-to-understand difference here.

No more special rights for religious people. We should be able to point out how these inaccurate and hurtful statements by Christians are bad for the world and hurtful to youth and others, without the whining by the "you can't criticize my views because their my fa-a-a-a-a-a-a-ith" crap.

@19:

You think homosexual behavior, premarital sex, and having children outside of marriage all cause misery, suffering, unhappiness, broken lives and unfulfilled dreams??

Wow.

One question: Where exactly is your Taliban cave in Pakistan located and how do you get internet access there?

#306 – what a disappointing comment. Show me anything irrational in Dan’s response to the letter writer.

I completely agree with you about the word tolerance. Diversity should be embraced, not tolerated. But I am always very suspicious of those purportedly for a cause telling others their voices are too strident.

If you really do support equal marriage then focus your voice on the opposition. Dan’s anger over the continued harassment and deaths of children is controlled and powerful. Go find any social movement that got anywhere without justified anger. If you can’t, then STFU.

"Fuck your feelings."

Hallelujah! Testify brother!

That was AWESOME! You had me at Fuck Your Feelings - that's what we've been doing to ourselves for generations!! I happen to be one of the few "lucky ones" who has been supported by most family and friends since day 1 of coming out but I know WAY too many people who were/are not so lucky. Keep on keepin on Dan!!

Thank you Dan, I couldn't have said it better, in fact, I know I couldn't have said it better. It's about time we, those of us who are truly the majority in this nation, shun and abhor those pretend Xtians who think they have a right to use their religion like a club to beat down all those who they see as lesser. Their false sense of superiority is not only unjustified, but dangerous and it is up to those of us who, like you, are sick to death of their hiding their hatred behind religion, call them on and make them answer for it.

To LR, when whatever one of the Heinz57 of Christianity you subscribe to cast out the Hatemongers for Jesus you allow among you, and stop teaching your children to hate in the name of God, only then will we stop calling you hatemongers and religofascists. "You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye" - Matthew 7:5

Dan, you have gotten well-deserved praise for pointing out the bigotry and persecution perperpetrated by those people who would call themselves Christians, but I have to protest the fact that you ascribed the same hatred and damnation espoused by Christian fundamentalists to Jesus Christ himself. As a reader of the Bible from childhood I have to agree with what others have said here that Jesus would never condemn a person for loving another person and that he would look upon us all as the loved, cherished children of God. Your statement " to say nothing of the gentle "savior" they've heard so much about, a gentle and loving father who will condemn them to hell for the sin of falling in love with the wrong person." is completely off the mark. Please do not repeat the fallacies of bigots and paint everyone, even Jesus Christ with the same broad brush.

Amen.

I love my religious friends who put their actions behind their faith. They condemn any type of bullying and do not commit stealth hate with the inane "hate the sin/love the sinner" message. As for those other religious types who brag about their faith but promote (intentionally or not) an agenda of bullying and intolerance -- well, you said it best. Fuck their feelings.

If a person of faith feels the need to add a disclaimer such as, "but I don't support gay marriage" -- well, fuck them, too.

While I am on a roll, fuck beets too. They are icky.

Amen.

I love my religious friends who put their actions behind their faith. They condemn any type of bullying and do not commit stealth hate with the inane "hate the sin/love the sinner" message. As for those other religious types who brag about their faith but promote (intentionally or not) an agenda of bullying and intolerance -- well, you said it best. Fuck their feelings.

If a person of faith feels the need to add a disclaimer such as, "but I don't support gay marriage" -- well, fuck them, too.

While I am on a roll, fuck beets too. They are icky.

@331 - Venom also heals, when used appropriately, as Dan has done here.

Nice job, Dan! I totally agree.

Fuckin a, dan!!!! So satisfying to read your response. You rock my world.

Lame response, Dan. You can do better than that. Blaming homosexual guilt on the church? Widen your gaze Dan, you're really missing it. The real problem is the human conscience. Let's get rid of that and then we can do whatever the hell we want.

Oh snap!

Oh snap!

Why is it when ever someone says "Humanity isn't perfect" or "the bible says we're all sinners..." the next thing they usually do is open their flapping gums and prove that very statement?

Why is it when ever someone says "Humanity isn't perfect" or "the bible says we're all sinners..." the next thing they usually do is open their flapping gums and prove that very statement?

I want to know how someone can justify a belief in Darwin's theories of survival of the fittest but still claim that a gay lifestyle is completely normal. Does that idea that we are simply animals trying to spread our seed not go against lifestyle led by homosexuals that doesn't spread a person's gene pool around. It seems that one or both of these ideas have to be wrong.

You've outdone yourself on this on, Dan.

how often do we hear the complaint about how 'moderate muslims' do not speak out against attrocities committed by their fellow muslims?
yet, on this comment board alone, we have many christians asserting that they are gay-lovin' non-haters...so why do we never hear them calling out their brothers-in-christ?? it's not just southern baptists who rail against gay people in the name of their god..the catholics and mormons and methodists and presbyterians, et al, readily join the chorus of condemnation of gay people and contribute mightily to efforts to deny gay citizens their civil rights. until you 'moderate christians' clean up your own houses of worship, i don't want to hear how different you are from all the other believers in your magic sky friend. the blood of the gay souls that we've lost is on your hands as much as it's on the claws of the phelps clan.

The failure of the bible to recognize and celebrate homosexual love in an equal manner to hetrosexual love should immediately stand out to followers of christ as something odd about the bible. Since every person, regardless of their sexual orientation, knows and feels sexuality within themselves and knows and experiences attractions of a sexual nature towards persons to whom they are sexually attracted to also knows that these feelings spring from whitin themselves and they don't have to do anything to cause those feelings to occur, they just do. And everybody also knows that its not really possible to make oneself feel sexually attracted to someone they are not actually sexually attracted to. Deep down we all know this. And well all also know that these feelings spring forth from within us from within our deepest purest place. That place inside of us that has always been there from the beginning. From when we were children all through life. And we all also know that throughout our lives other people around us experience sexuallity slightly differently. We are educated all through our lives as other people for one reason or another tell us what they like sexually. And we all know that there isn't really any one particular sexual act that everybody likes. We learn as we mature that whatever we may like sexually probably won't be identical to even the closest to us.

And so it appears that for followers of christ there is a problem. Since we're edcuated by others that what satisfys my own sexual appitite may not satisfy another persons sexual tastes we learn that other people feel things that we may not ourselves necessarily feel. And since we also know deep down that our sexual feelings stem from the purest part of us we know that what we feel is inheriently right for us then we must believe that when others tell us of what their sexual appitites are then we know that those feelings are also right and pure even though they mayt not match our own. And so from these experiences, first of knowing one's own sexual desires and knowing they are pure in and of themselves because they were always a part of us, and second from learning that other people feel other sexual feelings we don't, then we can know that all sexual feelings that everyone has from their purest place inside themselves are all pure and real and right and correct.

From that we can know then that anyone or anything or any organization that singles out certain sexual desires which stem equally from the pure place inside another person just as our own sexual feelings flow from the purest place inside of us as wrong in any way when all the participants of that sexual act are consenting adults then we can know that the person or book or organization who is calling these sexual things "wrong" is actually mistaken. From that we have no choice but to look at the person or book or organization who is spreading this misinformation about sexuality and consider the idea that either the person speading this untrue idea has had no sexual education at all and doesn't yet know that other people have other sexual feelings or that they person, book or organization spreading this false idea has indeed been educated about human sexuality and the many forms it takes. Since its unrealistic to think that grown adults in this day and age would ever be so uneducated about human sexuality as to unknowingly spread lies which condem certain human sexual desires and acts by presenting the lies as "truth" and be comepletely unaware that they were spreading lies when they thought they were spreading "truth" we must assume that the person, book or organization is knowingly spreading lies.

In the face of all this we must look again at the bible and now we realize that the bible has a flaw. That any condemenation of homosexuality that it presents is, in fact, a lie. And a most horrific and unhuman lie at that. And so we must step back. For now we have found a flaw in the bible. Now we must look at the bible more closely and in doing so we find that, in fact, there are many more lies in the bible. How it is possible that followers of christ can overlook all the lies in the bible is incomprehensible. Today education abounds. There is no reason to accept foolishness spewed from the pages of the bible. There is no reason to bother with it at all, nor is there any reason to look at persons who claim that the bible is correct because we know that without a doubt there is something wrong with anyone who claims that what is in the bible should be obeyed in some way. We can see clearly now that for anyone to push lies with great fervor has got some other hidden adgenda. A brief study of history quickly shows that religon has been the most successfull tool ever invented by humans to enslave other humans. Now that we see the bible is flawed we can see the foolishness that the bible presents as a whole. And that foolishness is simply this: that, according to the bible, if a person does exactly what their religion interprets the bible to tell them to, and if that person will ignore all but the bible and do just what the bible and other followers of the bible and their religious leaders tell them to do then they will win a prize. And its the biggest prize of all, that the person will, after he dies, get another life, one that goes one forever. And the only price of this prize is that one give his enitre seventy or eighty years of life following inhuman rules as dictated by the bible and its followers. And after that, after the person dies, he can collect on this bet.

Yet, there isn't a lick of evidence at all that this big prize has ever been collected on by anyone anywhere, ever. There is absolutely no proof that the big prize exists. None. None at all. In fact, the only clear winners anyone can ever see are the churches who get our money during our lifetime and the religious leaders who get our money while we're alive. In facf, there has never been any proof anytime anywhere ever that anyone other than religious leaders ever get any kind of payoff on this arrangement. They get your life and loyalty and they don't even have to pay off on the bet themselves, they've got you so boondoggled that they've convinced you that some big thing somewhere, some big force or entitly or whatever it is is going to pay off that bet for them to you. And here's the truly insane part, you can't collect on this bet till AFTER YOU DIE.

Any rational person who sets down and thinks this out realizes what nonsense the bible is. And what nonsense those who follow christ spew forth into the world. Followers of chirst ignore all the real facts about life and living and the earth and the universe available to them that are verified time and time again by scientists and even their own neighbors who can see that what is going on in the real world are the real facts of life. Which means that anyone who imagines some other fantasy world is ignoring the real one. And anyone who ignores the real world isn't really in their right mind. They are people who need help. They spread lies to children. They harm children in this way, in fact. They give their money to religions that ignore tru\th, which persecute non-followers of their religion by telling their followers to do things and say things whih simply are not true. And they bully non-followers by waiving this life after death nonsense around appealing to our own fear of dying. The followers of the bible and of christ and of christanity and of religion and of any religion are all person who ignore the real world and the clear observable truth of how life really is which is all around us every second of the day every second of our lives and instead dwell inside their minds in a fantasy land where nothing is as it seems and where magical things can happen from a being that has never showin itsel to any human living today. That is just crazy.

Ujnfortunatly that means that anyone who folllows the bible or christ or christanity or any religion at all is crazy. But they don't realize it. And yet they are and need help. Serious psychological help. But our society is so horriffcially swamped in the madness caused by religion that the people who are sane and rational and who do not practice any religion are, in fact, thought of as being "wrong".

And so we're left with this. Rational people present facts to followers of christ over and over and over and yet those burdened by religious madness find enough support from the other people crazed by this madnees born of religion and so the crazy religion continues onward spreading its lies. Until doctors and psychologists can find a treatement and hopefully a cure for religious madness we just have to hope that some of this will get through to the followers of the bible and they will stop spreading their lies and change their ways and come into the real world. But its hard for a person who has lived a fantasy for most, if not all of their lives to come out of it on their own.

So, to the follower of christ who may read this or who wrote that original letter, I don't know how to reach you except to be one of those in the real world who repeats the truth for you again, here, and hope that some flicker of recognition will get through your religious madness and help you find a way to sanity. And to those who follow christ and can't find a way out of that madness I hope that one day we can find a way, some kind of treatment to bring you out of your madness and give you back the life that is real and true and that you might enjoy before you die. For there is no prize after death. Life is all we have. Lets enjoy it. I beg those of you who spread lies born of your religion to stop doing so and to find your way to us in reality. Its so heartbreaking to witness the lies of religion and what it does to our society, and particularly to our children.

Take care follower of christ. the lies you spread i know you think you're spreading them becxause they're true, but they're not. if you can't understand reason, I don't know what to do without the help of doctors and nurses to help you come out of your madness. But nobody is treating religious madness. You, followers of christ, have bullied all of our society into believing lies.

There is nothing wrong with homosexual acts. In fact, if you want to know the whole truth, sin itself doesn't even exist. There is no such thing as sin. No god, no heaven, no hell, no sin. Non of that nonsense exites.

Its just us, here, now, living. And those who havve died are decayed and gone forever, just as we all will one day. And there is no prize afterwards. No eternal bliss, no eternal suffering. Nothing at all.

Live your life and don't try to use it to buy some magic beans. Don't be a sap and go for a prize you are promised to get after you die. Thats just crazy.

The failure of the bible to recognize and celebrate homosexual love in an equal manner to hetrosexual love should immediately stand out to followers of christ as something odd about the bible. Since every person, regardless of their sexual orientation, knows and feels sexuality within themselves and knows and experiences attractions of a sexual nature towards persons to whom they are sexually attracted to also knows that these feelings spring from whitin themselves and they don't have to do anything to cause those feelings to occur, they just do. And everybody also knows that its not really possible to make oneself feel sexually attracted to someone they are not actually sexually attracted to. Deep down we all know this. And well all also know that these feelings spring forth from within us from within our deepest purest place. That place inside of us that has always been there from the beginning. From when we were children all through life. And we all also know that throughout our lives other people around us experience sexuallity slightly differently. We are educated all through our lives as other people for one reason or another tell us what they like sexually. And we all know that there isn't really any one particular sexual act that everybody likes. We learn as we mature that whatever we may like sexually probably won't be identical to even the closest to us.

And so it appears that for followers of christ there is a problem. Since we're edcuated by others that what satisfys my own sexual appitite may not satisfy another persons sexual tastes we learn that other people feel things that we may not ourselves necessarily feel. And since we also know deep down that our sexual feelings stem from the purest part of us we know that what we feel is inheriently right for us then we must believe that when others tell us of what their sexual appitites are then we know that those feelings are also right and pure even though they mayt not match our own. And so from these experiences, first of knowing one's own sexual desires and knowing they are pure in and of themselves because they were always a part of us, and second from learning that other people feel other sexual feelings we don't, then we can know that all sexual feelings that everyone has from their purest place inside themselves are all pure and real and right and correct.

From that we can know then that anyone or anything or any organization that singles out certain sexual desires which stem equally from the pure place inside another person just as our own sexual feelings flow from the purest place inside of us as wrong in any way when all the participants of that sexual act are consenting adults then we can know that the person or book or organization who is calling these sexual things "wrong" is actually mistaken. From that we have no choice but to look at the person or book or organization who is spreading this misinformation about sexuality and consider the idea that either the person speading this untrue idea has had no sexual education at all and doesn't yet know that other people have other sexual feelings or that they person, book or organization spreading this false idea has indeed been educated about human sexuality and the many forms it takes. Since its unrealistic to think that grown adults in this day and age would ever be so uneducated about human sexuality as to unknowingly spread lies which condem certain human sexual desires and acts by presenting the lies as "truth" and be comepletely unaware that they were spreading lies when they thought they were spreading "truth" we must assume that the person, book or organization is knowingly spreading lies.

In the face of all this we must look again at the bible and now we realize that the bible has a flaw. That any condemenation of homosexuality that it presents is, in fact, a lie. And a most horrific and unhuman lie at that. And so we must step back. For now we have found a flaw in the bible. Now we must look at the bible more closely and in doing so we find that, in fact, there are many more lies in the bible. How it is possible that followers of christ can overlook all the lies in the bible is incomprehensible. Today education abounds. There is no reason to accept foolishness spewed from the pages of the bible. There is no reason to bother with it at all, nor is there any reason to look at persons who claim that the bible is correct because we know that without a doubt there is something wrong with anyone who claims that what is in the bible should be obeyed in some way. We can see clearly now that for anyone to push lies with great fervor has got some other hidden adgenda. A brief study of history quickly shows that religon has been the most successfull tool ever invented by humans to enslave other humans. Now that we see the bible is flawed we can see the foolishness that the bible presents as a whole. And that foolishness is simply this: that, according to the bible, if a person does exactly what their religion interprets the bible to tell them to, and if that person will ignore all but the bible and do just what the bible and other followers of the bible and their religious leaders tell them to do then they will win a prize. And its the biggest prize of all, that the person will, after he dies, get another life, one that goes one forever. And the only price of this prize is that one give his enitre seventy or eighty years of life following inhuman rules as dictated by the bible and its followers. And after that, after the person dies, he can collect on this bet.

Yet, there isn't a lick of evidence at all that this big prize has ever been collected on by anyone anywhere, ever. There is absolutely no proof that the big prize exists. None. None at all. In fact, the only clear winners anyone can ever see are the churches who get our money during our lifetime and the religious leaders who get our money while we're alive. In facf, there has never been any proof anytime anywhere ever that anyone other than religious leaders ever get any kind of payoff on this arrangement. They get your life and loyalty and they don't even have to pay off on the bet themselves, they've got you so boondoggled that they've convinced you that some big thing somewhere, some big force or entitly or whatever it is is going to pay off that bet for them to you. And here's the truly insane part, you can't collect on this bet till AFTER YOU DIE.

Any rational person who sets down and thinks this out realizes what nonsense the bible is. And what nonsense those who follow christ spew forth into the world. Followers of chirst ignore all the real facts about life and living and the earth and the universe available to them that are verified time and time again by scientists and even their own neighbors who can see that what is going on in the real world are the real facts of life. Which means that anyone who imagines some other fantasy world is ignoring the real one. And anyone who ignores the real world isn't really in their right mind. They are people who need help. They spread lies to children. They harm children in this way, in fact. They give their money to religions that ignore tru\th, which persecute non-followers of their religion by telling their followers to do things and say things whih simply are not true. And they bully non-followers by waiving this life after death nonsense around appealing to our own fear of dying. The followers of the bible and of christ and of christanity and of religion and of any religion are all person who ignore the real world and the clear observable truth of how life really is which is all around us every second of the day every second of our lives and instead dwell inside their minds in a fantasy land where nothing is as it seems and where magical things can happen from a being that has never showin itsel to any human living today. That is just crazy.

Ujnfortunatly that means that anyone who folllows the bible or christ or christanity or any religion at all is crazy. But they don't realize it. And yet they are and need help. Serious psychological help. But our society is so horriffcially swamped in the madness caused by religion that the people who are sane and rational and who do not practice any religion are, in fact, thought of as being "wrong".

And so we're left with this. Rational people present facts to followers of christ over and over and over and yet those burdened by religious madness find enough support from the other people crazed by this madnees born of religion and so the crazy religion continues onward spreading its lies. Until doctors and psychologists can find a treatement and hopefully a cure for religious madness we just have to hope that some of this will get through to the followers of the bible and they will stop spreading their lies and change their ways and come into the real world. But its hard for a person who has lived a fantasy for most, if not all of their lives to come out of it on their own.

So, to the follower of christ who may read this or who wrote that original letter, I don't know how to reach you except to be one of those in the real world who repeats the truth for you again, here, and hope that some flicker of recognition will get through your religious madness and help you find a way to sanity. And to those who follow christ and can't find a way out of that madness I hope that one day we can find a way, some kind of treatment to bring you out of your madness and give you back the life that is real and true and that you might enjoy before you die. For there is no prize after death. Life is all we have. Lets enjoy it. I beg those of you who spread lies born of your religion to stop doing so and to find your way to us in reality. Its so heartbreaking to witness the lies of religion and what it does to our society, and particularly to our children.

Take care follower of christ. the lies you spread i know you think you're spreading them becxause they're true, but they're not. if you can't understand reason, I don't know what to do without the help of doctors and nurses to help you come out of your madness. But nobody is treating religious madness. You, followers of christ, have bullied all of our society into believing lies.

There is nothing wrong with homosexual acts. In fact, if you want to know the whole truth, sin itself doesn't even exist. There is no such thing as sin. No god, no heaven, no hell, no sin. Non of that nonsense exites.

Its just us, here, now, living. And those who havve died are decayed and gone forever, just as we all will one day. And there is no prize afterwards. No eternal bliss, no eternal suffering. Nothing at all.

Live your life and don't try to use it to buy some magic beans. Don't be a sap and go for a prize you are promised to get after you die. Thats just crazy.

Hi Dan,
From across the pond, thank you so much for this.
I work in Mental Health, and as such, with people who are suicidal, LGBT or otherwise.
When will people learn that the sparking factor is often depression/how we treat our fellow man which causes a tragedy?
#130 states "it was his choice".
Yes it was. Suicide is a choice.
What folk need to understand is that those who are suicidal feel that ending their life is their only choice.
We are lucky to have big hate crime laws over here (not sure what you have in the US), but as a previous poster has said "We are winning".
Keep up the good work.
We will beat the bigots!
XX

Hi Dan,
From across the pond.
Thank you so much for this.
When are people gonna understand that how we treat our fellow man/depression leads to such tragedy?
I work in mental health, and as such, with people who are suicidal, LGBT or otherwise.
#130 says suicide is a choice. Yes it is.
But as already pointed out, those who feel this way, feel they have no other choice.
We are lucky, we have big hate crime laws over here (not sure what you have in the US)
Make no mistake, this preaching is hate crime.
To agree with a previous poster- "We are winning".
Not just in the USA, but Europe too.
Keep it up!
Suz xx

Sorry for posting twice.
I was pretty fired up.

I have given some thought to both sides of the homosexual vs. heterosexual debate, and have always felt that it is a question of sexual perversion - but not in the sense that most might think. For me, I see nothing wrong with a monogamous, homosexual relationship. My thought is... if two people of the same sex are working to build a life together - awesome! The same goes for the hetero relationships. I think the real issue is the sexual context, and my experience has been that most gays seem to be about multiple sexual partners, and vulgar talk and behavior. Though most lesbians I've met seem to be about monogamous relationships, and most hetero folks seem to be about monogamous relationships as well. And though there are certainly a lot of hetero folks who are about multiple sexual partners, and vulgar talk and behavior, there seems to be more sexual promiscuity among gays than with lesbians and heteros - admitting that I could have a mistaken perception. Even still, what two consenting adults do with their sexuality is their business. I have homosexual friends and family members who are awesome human beings and are just trying to make it through this life the best they can - like my hetero friends and family. I guess I'd like to make the point that not all homosexuals are "Bad" and not all heterosexuals are "Good". Speaking only for myself, I think the real issue is about content of character - not sexual preference. In much the same way that not everyone of a certain race or religion is "bad" - not everyone who is homosexual is inherently "bad". So, for me, the real issue isn't about sexual preference, but rather the context in which you exercise your sexuality - genuine love vs. sexual perversion. And there's not even an issue there if you are consenting adults. As to whether the creator of the universe is actually against same sex unions, I have always thought it was humorous that there are certain species, like frogs, that will spontaneously change gender if there aren't enough of the opposite gender in the environment. From this, I take it the creator is Ok with playing loosely with sexual orientation to promote life. And for humans, there are more important things in life than procreation - if that were not true, priests would be allowed to marry. Think about it! Love and peace to you all.

I have given some thought to both sides of the homosexual vs. heterosexual debate, and have always felt that it is a question of sexual perversion - but not in the sense that most might think. For me, I see nothing wrong with a monogamous, homosexual relationship. My thought is... if two people of the same sex are working to build a life together - awesome! The same goes for the hetero relationships. I think the real issue is the sexual context, and my experience has been that most gays seem to be about multiple sexual partners, and vulgar talk and behavior. Though most lesbians I've met seem to be about monogamous relationships, and most hetero folks seem to be about monogamous relationships as well. And though there are certainly a lot of hetero folks who are about multiple sexual partners, and vulgar talk and behavior, there seems to be more sexual promiscuity among gays than with lesbians and heteros - admitting that I could have a mistaken perception. Even still, what two consenting adults do with their sexuality is their business. I have homosexual friends and family members who are awesome human beings and are just trying to make it through this life the best they can - like my hetero friends and family. I guess I'd like to make the point that not all homosexuals are "Bad" and not all heterosexuals are "Good". Speaking only for myself, I think the real issue is about content of character - not sexual preference. In much the same way that not everyone of a certain race or religion is "bad" - not everyone who is homosexual is inherently "bad". So, for me, the real issue isn't about sexual preference, but rather the context in which you exercise your sexuality - genuine love vs. sexual perversion. And there's not even an issue there if you are consenting adults. As to whether the creator of the universe is actually against same sex unions, I have always thought it was humorous that there are certain species, like frogs, that will spontaneously change gender if there aren't enough of the opposite gender in the environment. From this, I take it the creator is Ok with playing loosely with sexual orientation to promote life. And for humans, there are more important things in life than procreation - if that were not true, priests would be allowed to marry. Think about it! Love and peace to you all.

This post, and the subsequent array of responding comments, for me serves to highlight the truth of an observation by the philosopher Eric Hoffer:

"I doubt if the oppressed ever fight for freedom. They fight for pride and for power -- power to oppress others. The oppressed want above all to imitate their oppressors; they want to retaliate."

The thirst for vengeance runs as a disturbing undercurrent to this discussion. It is staggering enough to attempt to envision the type of intellect that can decry the bigoted condemnation of gays while simultaneously condemning christians with bigoted invective. It has been observed that there is no imperative forcing one to respect another's religious faith. True enough. But one might also observe that there is no imperative forcing one to respect another's sexual orientation.

It is estimated that some 76% of Americans identify themselves as christians. It seems monumentally stupid to insult the handful who have come here to assert their agreement with the basic premise of the author's post - i.e., that the "dehumanizing bigotries that fall from lips of "faithful Christians," and the lies that spew forth from the pulpit of the churches "faithful Christians" drag their kids to on Sundays" are harmful, ignorant, and backwards. I am not quite convinced that greeting those from faiths that accept all people and assert their committal to GLBT equality with dehumanizing bigotry of your own is entirely a productive endeavor. Of course, if your objective is not social harmony and equality for all people, but to 'win', then of course, by all means, tear them apart like a pack of ravenous dogs.

In the meantime, let us ignore completely the actual root of the problem - the prevalence of bullying and lack of respect for others that tends to run virulently among our children - a problem that results in tragedy for gay children and straight children alike. It is said that hatred and bigotry are learned qualities. I wonder what lessons are being learned from the author's post and the subsequent replies?

Wow...That was intense.
Umm, both sides are right. The guy writing that letter is not an asshole. Given that the only thing he said about gay people was that he didn't support gay marriage, you made a lot of assumptions Dan. The fact is, different Christians believe different things, because it's not a perfect science, or some cult-like devotion where we all listen to whatever the Pope or Fred Phelps has to say. We all have our own opinions, interpretations, and ideas, and as long as those ideas don't harm anyone, they're okay. Now, not supporting gay marriage is doing harm to someone, so I can't agree with that statement. But who knows what he tells his children? The fact is, a lot of Christians I know think that a homosexual could go to heaven as well, and is just as worthy in the eyes of the Lord as anyone else. Because like the writer said, we're all imperfect, and no sin is any worse than the other. Gay people don't like being told what they do is a sin, and I don't blame them, but most choices we as people make are sins. However, as long as you want to be forgiven by God, it doesn't matter whether or not you continue to sin. The biggest argument against homosexual Christians is that they could very well keep being gay and "sinning" while also repenting. However, regular Christians do this too, so...What's the problem? It's a touchy area, and it's not perfect, but there's no proof that this guy goes around saying things to his kids that you implied he did. And if his kids every verbally or physically attacked a gay kid, it sounds like he would reprimand them and tell them that Jesus said to love sinners, not condemn them. So your comments, Dan, are a little unjustified and presumptuous, because you don't know what exactly he believes, you just made a dozen assumptions based on a couple of lines in his letter.

At the same time, you are right in not apologizing. Because, in the end, there are Christians who don't follow that doctrine. I personally don't consider them Christians, but they fly themselves under the banner of Christianity and the Bible, and so Christians they are. They work against homosexuals in every way and refuse to allow them acceptance into society. And yes, a homosexual suicide is exactly what they want. It's wrong and disgusting, and it makes me wish that these people would read the Bible once in a while. It's painful to watch, and you're right Dan, those people are terrible and deserve to be stopped. You shouldn't have to apologize at your anger towards those Christians, although your generalizations can offend and bother other Christians who may believe differently than the ones you attack in these letters. While I don't know if the person who wrote this letter to you honestly does the things you accuse Christians of or not, making assumptions is bad. The only apology he deserves, however, is for the assumption you made. You need not apologize for your anger at the kinds of Christians who cause these terrible events to happen, because I am angry at them too, and by reading the letter above, I think the Christian who wrote to you may have been the same way.

tl;dr: Some Christians are good, some Christians are bad, be angry at the ones that are bad, don't assume all Christians are.

According to fundamentalist theology, all sin is equal in the eyes of God.. being gay is no worse than lying, or gossip, or theft. Churches are, by definition, filled with sinners -- it's the essence of Christian belief. But the Church spends FAR more time speaking out against gays than it does all the other types of sin, despite its theology preaching that God doesn't draw distinctions, nor does God recognize gradients of sin. God is boolean -- you are either saved or your burn in hell, period, and Dante's political satire notwithstanding, you will all burn together when you do. (Tom Lehrer FTW!) This is why it's logical and justified to blame the church for their homophobia, because they are NOT preaching against sin in general -- they are singling out one sin as particularly worthy of condemnation, and in so doing, are violating their own espoused faith in the name of indulging their bigotry and fear.

I believe in freedom of speech as an absolute right. The religious right should be allowed to preach their hate.. and all sane people should be allowed to stand up and call them the narrow-minded, hate-filled, bigots that they are. Christians -- if you do not like being tarred with this brush, stand up to your preachers and your fellow church-goers. Remind them that there are no gradients of sin and that if they act to judge one sin as worse than another, they are committing the sin of pride, the sin of believing themselves more fit to judge than God himself.

I'm sorry, but I have to speak up here. I'm a non-denominational Christian who fully supports gay rights and LGBT legislation for legalized marriage, and hearing Dan say that the recent flood of teen suicides is the fault of the evangelical right is GROSSLY misleading.

My feelings are not hurt. I don't get my feelings hurt by words that someone has written online. Words from someone whom I will likely never meet in my lifetime. Rather, what upsets me, Dan, is that you are not helping the situation by redirecting the hatred towards another group. You are only adding to the problem.

You're speaking out against prejudiced hatred towards gays, and you counter it how? By spreading prejudiced hatred towards evangelical Christians. The person who wrote in was only expressing that not every Christian in the world shares the same viewpoint that "gays are evil," nor do they teach their children to believe such hateful things. But you would have the world believe otherwise, holding Christians accountable as the ones responsible for these kids' suicides.

They weren't trying to sway the focal point to their hurt feelings. They were trying to point out that the original author was acting out in borderline hypocritical behavior by blindly projecting the same hatred towards another generalized group. How do you respond? "F**k your feelings." Wow. Way to stick to your guns, Dan.

Christians were not the ones who tormented these kids in their daily lives. The bullies in their schools were not hurling Bibles at them and calling them "sinful heathens." Children bully each other for any superficial reasons, be it race, gender, possessions, hobbies, interests, or ANY skin-deep excuse they can find. It is NOT because the bullies are being taught to be intolerant of homosexuals. If that were the case, then it would mean that ONLY GAY KIDS are committing suicide. Unfortunately the world is not that clear-cut, and straight kids are having just as many problems with bullying as the rest, seeing as how not every teen suicide in the past month was committed by a gay child.

I'm so goddamn sick of people trying to produce scapegoats for the blame and use it as a way to attack faith, as if it is the root of all horrible behavior in the world. Christianity had NOTHING to do with these kids being harassed and tormented to the point of suicide. Bullying is a horrible disease on the childhood norm that needs to be stamped out in any way possible, and trying to claim that the church has blood on its hands is NOT the way to get kids to learn to be compassionate of their fellow students. You don't counter hatred with more hatred. Dan Savage, you're only contributing to the problem when you write pieces like this.

Reading this article seriously makes me worry about how bullying will ever be eliminated. Bullying should NEVER be accepted as "part of childhood." Parents and teachers alike have been too quick to write off complaints as "kids being kids," when they should be taking these things seriously since they can cause severe physical and emotional damage to the victims. People like you are perpetuating the epidemic by giving kids another excuse to harass their fellow peers.

I'm sorry, but I have to speak up here. I'm a non-denominational Christian who fully supports gay rights and LGBT legislation for legalized marriage, and hearing Dan say that the recent flood of teen suicides is the fault of the evangelical right is GROSSLY misleading.

Let me clarify one important fact here: my feelings are not hurt. I don't get my feelings hurt by words that someone has written online. Words from someone whom I will likely never meet in my lifetime. Rather, what upsets me, Dan, is that you are not helping the situation by redirecting the hatred towards another group. You are only adding to the problem.

You're speaking out against prejudiced hatred towards gays, and you counter it how? By spreading prejudiced hatred towards evangelical Christians. The person who wrote in was only expressing that not every Christian in the world shares the same viewpoint that "gays are evil," nor do they teach their children to believe such hateful things. But you would have the world believe otherwise, holding Christians accountable as the ones responsible for these kids' suicides.

They weren't trying to sway the focal point to their hurt feelings. They were trying to point out that the original author was acting out in borderline hypocritical behavior by blindly projecting the same hatred towards another generalized group. How do you respond? "F**k your feelings." Wow. Way to stick to your guns, Dan.

Christians were not the ones who tormented these kids in their daily lives. The bullies in their schools were not hurling Bibles at them and calling them "sinful heathens." Children bully each other for any superficial reasons, be it race, gender, possessions, hobbies, interests, or ANY skin-deep excuse they can find. It is NOT because the bullies are being taught to be intolerant of homosexuals. If that were the case, then it would mean that ONLY GAY KIDS are committing suicide. Unfortunately the world is not that clear-cut, and straight kids are having just as many problems with bullying as the rest, seeing as how not every teen suicide in the past month was committed by a gay child.

I'm so goddamn sick of people trying to produce scapegoats for the blame and use it as a way to attack faith, as if it is the root of all horrible behavior in the world. Christianity had NOTHING to do with these kids being harassed and tormented to the point of suicide. Bullying is a horrible disease on the childhood norm that needs to be stamped out in any way possible, and trying to claim that the church has blood on its hands is NOT the way to get kids to learn to be compassionate of their fellow students. You don't counter hatred with more hatred. Dan Savage, you're only contributing to the problem when you write pieces like this.

Reading this article seriously makes me worry about how bullying will ever be eliminated. Bullying should NEVER be accepted as "part of childhood." Parents and teachers alike have been too quick to write off complaints as "kids being kids," when they should be taking these things seriously since they can cause severe physical and emotional damage to the victims. People like you are perpetuating the epidemic by giving kids another excuse to harass their fellow peers.

Dan-

I have to say that I am totally in awe of you at this moment. Having always been around the gay community, it was never a second thought to be supportive and loving to all my friends. I have marched in parades and been the maid of honor in a gay wedding. And I did so with pride!

It's hard enough to find love these days without tossing a gender stamp on it. Besides, the God I believe in doesn't make mistakes. He created us all and loves us all. The bible is nothing short of man's view of what God meant when he tilted his head to the right... or left for that matter.

All I can say is HERE! HERE! Very well written.

Wow..."Gay and lesbian children". So children have a sexuality now? I'm 26 and don't have one yet.

Wow..."Gay and lesbian children." Children have a sexuality now? I'm 26 and didn't think I had one yet.

If we have no peace, it is because we have forgotten that we belong to each other. ~Mother Teresa

(And sorry for the double-post there.)

Wow. You comletely missed the point there.

As another Christian (who does happen to support gay marriage), I can tell you that in years of attending church, I have NEVER seen or heard the pulpit used to spew hatred, or even to discuss whether gay marriages should occur (except once, when a visiting priest wished it were possible).

The woman's point is that by hating all Christians for gay-bashing, you're Christian-bashing, Dan. And while Christian-bashing isn't causing as many children to commit suicide, it's making America a worse place for all children to the erosion of morals and responsibility and self-hatred that it's causing in America (but to explain all that, I'd need a book. Or you could go read the "5000 year leap").

In fact, I've never seen you respond to something in such an ultra right-wing, I'm-going-to-ignore-the-point-and-just-espouse-my-own-opinion, conservative talk show host way. I had to check and see if you had gotten Rush Limbaugh to co-write that for you it was so typical of him.

We live in one fucking messed up world. I for one am thankful to be the raging homosexual that I am. It allowed me to learn early on that while many things can go up an ass...MY OWN HEAD IS NOT ONE OF THEM.

Its important to note that bullies effect everyone not just Gays. There are a lot of kids that have killed themselves that were overweight and also had some issues that they could not loose the weight. not only that but Kids are Bullied for...... everything. This is not a new thing its just now being brought to light. Unfortunately these kids did not have a National TV personality like Ellen to bring their sad end to the air and make everyone outraged. I AM AGAINST all bullies ITS not an Exclusive problem that the Gay community has it effects everyone from all walks of life. I was blessed to have a strong family that helped me through getting bullied as a child. but there area many that were not as lucky as i was. I agree with you though this has to STOP on all fronts.
A true follower of Christ does not hate just as Christ said love your neighbor. We must love all

AMEN! I am thankful every day that when my parents split soon after my third birthday, my father did not fight too hard to gain custody and to raise me in the spirit-killing environment for a Gay kid which Appalachian Pentacostalism would have been. I got just enough shame out of the United Methodist and Episcopal churches of the 1960s and 1970s to inform an adolescence and youth adulthood rife with unwise risk taking as a subconscious and slow form of self-destruction! Props to my father's second wife for helping him realize why a number of their close childhood friends left the hollow, never to return.

Wow, lots of ignorance overnight. Let’s break it down for the waaa-you-hate-Christians crowd. When you (YOU reader, not your religious institution) seek to stop a group from enjoying the rights that you get to enjoy, that makes YOU a bigot. When the group you are bigoted against are homosexuals, you are more specifically considered homophobic, although bigot still works. When you fail to understand and accept that about yourselves you will never 1) seek to change it, or 2) be able to understand how these bigoted beliefs affect your children and society at large. Dan tried to explain. All you heard was You Are Bad. If YOU are not using your religion to hurt another group, why is that what you heard? Hmmmmm, a little unconscious shame perhaps?

Now to address some individual commenters, why not?

#348 – Survival is not of the fittest; it’s of the most adaptive (or humans would never have made it, all hairless and vulnerable as we are). I don’t know about any gay lifestyles, but homosexuality is perfectly normal amongst many, many species, including humans. Yes, your ideas are wrong, and need to be updated.

#356 - Dan never said hetero marriage was wrong. When you call him hetero-phobic it reflects poorly on you (though it was highly amusing in a oh no he didn’t sort of way).

#362 – your stated beliefs are diametrically opposed. Unless you are very specifically speaking of religious marriage and not civil marriage, you cannot believe in equal rights for gays and also believe marriage is for a man and woman.

#363 –You claim the LGBT oppressed seeks power to become the oppressors based on comments here that ridicule religion. What a joke. Do you seriously think that if equal marriage became the law of the land today that LGBT people would seek to stop hetero marriage?

#371 – You’re a late bloomer by a long shot. I knew my sexuality by 6 (now 46). I didn’t know its name or connotations till later.

@382 "NoxiousNan": I think you missed the point some of us are trying to make here. It's not the fact that Dan is upset because there are some Christians who are exercising bigotry by targeting homosexuals and spreading the hatred for gays in general. This IS true.

What ISN'T true is what Dan implied, that the bigotry applies to the Christian faith as a whole, that anyone who is of Christian faith automatically hates gays, and that they are the *only* reason why these kids are being bullied to the point of suicide. Not all Christians are homophobic. When he acts so defensive and insulted at the idea of gays being targeted by Christian prejudice, but then so hypocritically turns around and slams the entire faith as a whole rather than calling out just those members who are guilty of perpetuating the hate, he becomes just as bad as the people he is speaking out against.

The "waaa-you-hate-Christians" crowd that have responded in these comments are not all people who believe that gays should not have equal rights as everyone else. As I said earlier, I am a born-again non-denominational Christian who fully supports LGBT rights and feels they deserve to be just as happy and blessed as any other human being on this earth. I'm of the "forgive and love everyone because we're all on the same level" school of Christianity. Everyone sins. Big deal. According to the Bible, no one sin is worse than another. If our sins really DID build up like a huge burden on our shoulders, what the hell was the whole "Jesus dying on the cross" thing about? Besides, it also says homosexuality is just as bad a "category of sin" as a woman wearing men's clothing. It's been blown out of proportion by people who don't understand the word of their own God, and THAT is what needs to be spoken out against.

Dan should refine his anger just a little bit before it comes back to bite him in the ass. He's justifiably upset by the bigotry present in parts of today's churches. Where he misses the mark is when he decides to badmouth the religion as a whole. Do not brand us all as hateful when only the loudmouthed ones fit the bill.

@ 360 - As it's been proven by study after study, a great majority of heterosexuals cheat on their spouse. It seriously appear to be part of nature, and monogamy to be a social construct (as a concept, it appeared at the same time as private property, and precisely in order to preserve it - if a woman only sleeps with one man, obviously the children are the man's and should inherit his property). So you have no point whatsoever.

Many people value monogamy, but that is a personal value, and basing your judgment of good and bad on that personal value makes you just another bigot. And like almost all bigots, you're in denial about it.

Kudos Dan, just f'n Kudos, friend.

As a gay man that was physically, verbally, and emotionally abused by CHRISTIAN children day in and day out for close to a decade, I can attest that your retort is 100% accurate. If not for the failing of the noose around my neck, I would have been one of those teens that committed suicide. This issue touches me so closely, I literally tear up at the mere metion of the pain and horror another people have to suffer. I thought growing up in the late 80's and early 90's was hard for a gay kid. Apparently, we aren't as evolved as we think we are here in the 21st Century.

True that most Christians do not teach their children to hate. But, their words and actions between each other, in fact, do. If gives them carte blanche to attack anyone that their parents deems is unworthy of being the same as them. This doesn't just apply to those of us in the LGBT, but to other religions, races, and even different sects of the same religion.

It's intersting that the RIGHT likes to use the "enviornmental" excuse for us being gay - saying we learned it. But, in the same breathe, they deny they teach their own children anything negative.

Enough of the hypocracy. Enough of the bullying. Enough of the hate. We will NEVER be unifed as a people as long as we continue to sit back and allow these types of destructive and antiAmerican behaviors exist.

@ 305 - I wouldn't wish that on anyone either, but honestly, I don't see anything good about being a protestant (whatever denomination), a muslim, a jew, or any other religion. A clutch is a clutch is a clutch.

Kudos Dan, just f'n Kudos, friend.

As a gay man that was physically, verbally, and emotionally abused by CHRISTIAN children day in and day out for close to a decade, I can attest that your retort is 100% accurate. If not for the failing of the noose around my neck, I would have been one of those teens that committed suicide. This issue touches me so closely, I literally tear up at the mere metion of the pain and horror another people have to suffer. I thought growing up in the late 80's and early 90's was hard for a gay kid. Apparently, we aren't as evolved as we think we are here in the 21st Century.

True that most Christians do not teach their children to hate. But, their words and actions between each other, in fact, do. If gives them carte blanche to attack anyone that their parents deems is unworthy of being the same as them. This doesn't just apply to those of us in the LGBT, but to other religions, races, and even different sects of the same religion.

It's intersting that the RIGHT likes to use the "enviornmental" excuse for us being gay - saying we learned it. But, in the same breathe, they deny they teach their own children anything negative.

Enough of the hypocracy. Enough of the bullying. Enough of the hate. We will NEVER be unifed as a people as long as we continue to sit back and allow these types of destructive and antiAmerican behaviors exist.

Dear Dan,
You are a bully. Over the years you've bullied a lot of people, especially bisexuals and transgender people. I hope you will consider that some kids may be learning from you that it's okay to treat others as if their lives don't matter.

Sincerely,
Sean Dennison

342 - What a skillfully ignorant (and, I suspect, intentional) misreading of my comment.

Inasmuch as the rest of my comment questioned the use of bigoted invective to denounce bigoted invective, one might assume that the quotation - regarding the oppressed wishing to imitate their oppressors - was directed at that unfortunate tendency. However, it quickly became clear from the rest of your response that you would have ample reason to ignore such an obvious conclusion in favor of something which, ludicrous though it is, nevertheless allows you to maintain your favored victim status while simultaneously lashing out with vituperative scorn.

Speaking for myself, I can only find blind arrogance and naked bigotry behind the assumption that *I* seek to stop any group from enjoying the rights that I get to enjoy - a sweeping, ignorant statement that you have absolutely no way to assert as fact, but which undoubtedly serves its purpose in allowing you to maintain your poisonous bigotry with a clear conscience.

Further, you go on to assert that "When the group you are bigoted against are homosexuals, you are more specifically considered homophobic, although bigot still works." Assuming that I am bigoted against anyone for any reason is a scurrilous enough declaration, but your further comment that "When you fail to understand and accept that about yourselves you will never 1) seek to change it, or 2) be able to understand how these bigoted beliefs affect your children and society at large." is the supercilious height of presumptuousness.

Perhaps you might take your own scolding to heart before presuming to lecture others? More likely, I suspect that you'll continue to wallow in the hypocrisy of your own position, further alienating those who would otherwise extend their support for your objectives.

In my sight, you are no better than the "christian bigots" you claim to despise.

342 - What a skillfully ignorant (and, I suspect, intentional) misreading of my comment.

Inasmuch as the rest of my comment questioned the use of bigoted invective to denounce bigoted invective, one might assume that the quotation - regarding the oppressed wishing to imitate their oppressors - was directed at that unfortunate tendency. However, it quickly became clear from the rest of your response that you would have ample reason to ignore such an obvious conclusion in favor of something which, ludicrous though it is, nevertheless allows you to maintain your favored victim status while simultaneously lashing out with vituperative scorn.

Speaking for myself, I can only find blind arrogance and naked bigotry behind the assumption that *I* seek to stop any group from enjoying the rights that I get to enjoy - a sweeping, ignorant statement that you have absolutely no way to assert as fact, but which undoubtedly serves its purpose in allowing you to maintain your poisonous bigotry with a clear conscience.

Further, you go on to assert that "When the group you are bigoted against are homosexuals, you are more specifically considered homophobic, although bigot still works." Assuming that I am bigoted against anyone for any reason is a scurrilous enough declaration, but your further comment that "When you fail to understand and accept that about yourselves you will never 1) seek to change it, or 2) be able to understand how these bigoted beliefs affect your children and society at large." is the supercilious height of presumptuousness.

Perhaps you might take your own scolding to heart before presuming to lecture others? More likely, I suspect that you'll continue to wallow in the hypocrisy of your own position, further alienating those who would otherwise extend their support for your objectives.

In my sight, you are no better than the "christian bigots" you claim to despise.

Thank you, Dan. Thank you.

@385 - I did not miss the point, JonP, I tried to address it. Please reread Dan’s response. Dan did not imply that the bigotry applies to the Christian faith as a whole. That was my point. He very specifically targets those Christians that use their faith to excorcise their bigotry (“The children of people who see gay people as sinful or damaged or disordered and unworthy of full civil equality-even if those people strive to express their bigotry in the politest possible way…-learn to see gay people as sinful, damaged, disordered and unworthy.”).

See, if it really were the bigotry of the Christian faith “as a whole”, then the atheists, divorced and interfaith couples would also be targeted…or nobody would be, and Christians would have overcome the inborne and antique bigotries of their faith. Neither is the case though. Homosexuals are specifically targeted as you yourself admit.

Nope, the real question is why are all the Christians that support equal marriage assuming, despite Dan’s words to the contrary, that they are being thrown into the same grouping as the bigots Dan really is talking about? I personally, think that is psychologically very telling as I implied with my shame comment. He also never said anything about being gay being the only reason children are bullied. Your brain supplied that bit.

I am aware (and share) Dan’s feelings on religion. And he did mock Christianity itself for being made up (“magical sky friend Jesus”). But he also did exactly what you accuse him of not doing: calling out those members who are guilty…. Those are two very different things, and the subtlety should not be lost on you.

Homosexuality as sin has not been blown out of proportion by ignorant Christians. It’s been cherry picked by informed individuals with a hateful agenda, to advance their cause, and very successfully I might add, due to the ignorant Christians being used by these bastards. And really, there is no excuse for their ignorance. If they are going to practice the religion and urge others to as well, to the point of legislation, then they should really inform themselves about the religion. It’s not bad, or uncouth to be angry about that. It is a natural and healthy response.

@393 – umm I think you might mean 382 – me, that is.
I suspect 342 would be unnecessarily hurt by your words. Me, not so much.

I thank you for noting my skills with wordplay, especially coming from such an eloquent wordsmith as yourself. I did indeed puposely misread your pompous, inappropriately harsh quote. It deserved my "misunderstanding." Also, you have not answered the question.

For someone that seemingly holds words and sentences in such high regard, you failed utterly to understand that quotes can change the meanings of things (see above quote usage see, I didn't really misunderstand at all).

Guess what? These two phrases have completely different meanings:

“…dehuminizing bigotries that fall from lips of faithful Christians, and the lies that spew forth from the pulpit of the churches faithful Christians drag their kids to on Sundays…”

“…dehuminizing bigotries that fall from lips of “faithful Christians”, and the lies that spew forth from the pulpit of the churches “faithful Christians” drag their kids to on Sundays…”

Do I really have to explain the nuance? With the quotations he’s showing that they aren’t really faithful Christians at all. It’s a method used all the time in writing, and if you disagree then please explain why he used quotes.

My point though, was serious. I’m sick and tired of the false meme that ridiculing religion is akin to ridiculing people. Your religion is not sacred to anyone but you. Now, if Dan advocated never voting for Christians because their religion is bullshit, I’d have a real problem with that. I’d feel the need to advocate against that bigotry despite the fact that I believe the Bible is no more than a really old collection of books.

You said: “Speaking for myself, I can only find blind arrogance and naked bigotry behind the assumption that *I* seek to stop any group from enjoying the rights that I get to enjoy - a sweeping, ignorant statement that you have absolutely no way to assert as fact, but which undoubtedly serves its purpose in allowing you to maintain your poisonous bigotry with a clear conscience. “

Don’t you read things before you comment on them? The only way that I’ve accused you of any of that is if you actually engage in it. It’s another language tool. You can use it in all manner of topics: When YOU dance for a living then YOU are are a dancer. When YOU fail to read a comment before responding then YOU look like an idiot.

I’ll ignore your wallowing in hypocricy and victimhood comments because you obviously don’t even know what I said.

Thank you Dan.

My family and I were ostracized from our first church due to my refusal to stop being friends with a gay guy. I don't consider myself a Christian anymore as I believe more in the God who loves us all, not only the ones who attend church.

Thank you for this message, and thank you so very much for your "It Gets Better" project. I wish I had that message when I was younger. I'm just glad I never succeeded.