“A Belgian gay couple has a son through a Ukrainian surrogate (surrogacy is illegal in Belgium),” writes Griet, a Slog tipper and occasional LineOut contributor who lives in Belgium. “However, when their son was born and they went to pick him up they were not allowed to leave the country with him. He was in a foster home for a year, until the foster mother demanded more money and threatened to put the boy in an orphanage. They went to the Ukraine and tried to take him over the border with them, but of course that didn’t work either, it was considered abduction. Ever since, Samuel has been in an orphanage. The Belgian foreign ministry says there’s nothing they can do. Officials in Ukraine don’t seem to care.”
Greit sent along a link to this news report—click CC for English subtitles:
“It might be hormones,” writes Griet, “or it might be the fact that my son is now 8 months old. But the story won’t leave me alone. I was wondering if there was anything you could do? I don’t know… post it on Slog, just ask people to sign a petition?”
There’s a petition here. Jan Matthysen is Belgium’s ambassador to the United States. You can write him an email by clicking here.
Their grief and terrible feelings of guilt are heartwrenching. That they should have had to try smuggling him across the border is just ridiculous. That their getting caught is what got their son put in an orphanage must be a misery for them. Belgium needs to put some diplomacy in play here. Signed, and thank you.
Signed the petition, but is there anything we can really do from here?
Isn’t it Ukraine that won’t let these guys get their kid (“However, when their son was born and they went to pick him up [in Ukraine, right?] they were not allowed to leave the country with him….They went to the Ukraine and tried to take him over the border with them, but of course that didn’t work either, it was considered abduction.”)? I may be reading this incorrectly, but I don’t see what the Belgain gov’t can do about it if Ukraine simply refuses to let him go.
If you watch it, it’s the Belgian embassy in Kiev that refuses to give the baby a Belgian passport.
@3: According to the above video, it was the Belgian embassy in Kiev that refused to recognize the birth certificate and issue a Belgian passport for the child.
But unless I missed it, the report failed to answer the obvious question: why didn’t they just get a paternity test, claim copulative fertilization, and pay the “biological” mother to waive custody rights? Isn’t lying on a government form less of a moral hazard than kidnapping?
A year in a foster home, and now in an orphanage. Those early months are so critically important to a child, and he’s spent them without his daddies. How do you do this, keep putting up stories like this, month after month, year after year, and not want to hate the whole world? For each little victory, there is so much fucking heartbreak. Too many people suck in this world.
This is so sad. I signed the petition.
@6 exactly. these kinds of things you would think would be expedited in the courts for the sake of the kids…
@5 the DNA scenario occured to me too, but i don’t know if that’s taken as evidence or whatever. what do straight couples do when their child is born abroad? why can’t he as a single father if necessary do same?
Why should ANYONE, gay, straight, asexual, etc., have the right to rent out a womb in a third-world country and take the baby back to their first-world country, no questions asked?
This would not be a “heartwearming” story if it involved a wealthy straight couple — and it is not a “heartwarming” story with two gay men, either. Instead, it comes across as a story of western priviledge gone wrong.
It’s really tough for me to write this letter to the Ambassador without more information. What are the names of the couple, their last names? I can’t just bring the attention of Peter and Laurent to the ambassador — it has to be more specific.
Details please??
“But unless I missed it, the report failed to answer the obvious question: why didn’t they just get a paternity test, claim copulative fertilization, and pay the “biological” mother to waive custody rights? Isn’t lying on a government form less of a moral hazard than kidnapping?”
In the video it says they DID submit a paternity test into Belgian court proving paternity but that wasn’t sufficient. Also, in the Ukraine surrogate mothers don’t have custody rights to waive. The birth certificate lists whoever the intended parents are. If they’d known what the Belgian embassy would do, maybe they could have treated it as “copulative fertilization” and had the birth certificate filled out accordingly, but that would have had to be done beforehand.
I wonder if they could adopt their own kid, or if they’d be willing to move to a country that would allow them to bring their child with them.
The problem is with the fact that the surrogate agency is not legally regulated. You don’t know what situation the person was in when they consented to this etc. This is Belgium’s way of making an example of people who use it, if they allow this child in then surely many others would use this. I agree that surrogate agencies that are not legally regulated should not be considered ethical, and these guys made a huge mistake by not checking all the ins and outs of this before doing it. Clearly, the real problem here is the difficulty for gay people to adopt, and the bias against them. Although, I am unclear on how hard they tried….
However, under no circumstances can you make an example of a baby, putting it in an orphanage when its biological parent desperately wants to take care of it. It is heartbreaking
my question is, why did they pick a surrogate from Ukraine? eastern european countries tend to be very conservative and anti-gay.
The fact that one of those men is the boy’s BIOLOGICAL FATHER should have been plenty sufficient legal cause to hand the kid over. What reason could they possibly have to keep him from the biological father who is able, willing and even desperate to take him home? This is a blatant and disgusting violation of their human rights – the right to found a family, and the right to a decent home.
ugh………..Dan! I expect cheerful news from you in the near future or I’m attacking you with my tears/snot when I see you at the Cuff.
Homosexual Family Values are soooo good for the children.
They have become commodities to be bought, sold, shipped, held up in customs….
@16: As opposed to all those traditional heterosexual families who also adopt or contract a pregnancy out…
I couldn’t watch this earlier and I couldn’t finish it just now. I’m not sure if I want to hit something or go running through the streets screaming my head off.
I don’t understand what Belgium’s problem is. From what I understand about Belgium’s citizenry requierments, this boy should either A) Automatically be a citizen so long as his father is a natural born Belgium citizen B) Be eligible for citizenry so long as his father is a Belgium citizen and applies for citizenry for his son within 5 years of his birth.
I could see the problem if the boy wasn’t biologically related to either of them, but given that this is not the case, I don’t understand how the surrogacy factors in. Surrogacy or no, the boy is the biological son of a Belgium citizen. So what gives?
I have to agree with @9 on this. Many jurisdictions (including France and Quebec in Canada) ban surrogacy and its legal ramifications – including adoption – with the goal of preventing the commercialization of the human body. It is heartbreaking that a baby is suffering because of this, but we should be wary of valorizing the “rights” of a wealthy, Western couple (gay or straight) to buy or rent the bodies of poorer human beings – especially considering the wealth differential between Belgium and Ukraine. This issue is not at all straightforward.
@21 I have to say that it really, really irritates me when governments decide to take away children’s rights to punish the parents. As far as I’m concerned, the child has the right to Belgium citizenship. To deny him his birthright because Belgium doesn’t like what his parents did is unjust.
the selfish bastards knew what they were doing was against the law.
Signed, and I sent a little something. This has nothing to do with political ideals–there is an actual human being that is a small version of the Iranian man stuck in the airport. He’s a real human being, not a dotted line on the bottom of a piece of paper. Belgian authorities know very well what the right thing to do is. I think the red tape has brainwashed them into thinking it binds their hands when it’s really taken away their ability to think for themselves.
@23:
>implying that what they did was against the law
@21 What right do governments have to say what we do with our bodies? Yes, they should make sure people aren’t being exploited, but surrogacy can be mutually beneficial. What evidence is there that these men were exploiting this woman? And why should the government regulate certain modes of pregnancy and not others? I doubt that human trafficking or commercialization had much, if anything, to do with the decision about this child’s passport.
belgium doesn’t even really have a government right now:
http://www.pri.org/politics-society/gove…
Since were dealing with dick head bureaucrats what we need is a solution that will satisfy the dick heads.
This is going sound weird but why doesn’t the father marry the surrogate mother, pay her off get the kid to Belgium, file for divorce. He gets the kid, the surrogate (and greedy) mother gets money, the kid gets a home.
Maybe that’s not exactly the right solution but something along those lines. What do you think?
@21: Ok, so what you’re saying is that the woman lacks the capacity to consent to a labor contract? Would it be better if she simply struggled on, without the surrogacy money, in such a poor country with limited opportunity? Oh, right, no, she *herself* decided the surrogacy route was the best one for her, eyes open. She decided the benefits were worth the costs. Who the hell are we to call “exploitation?” This couple didn’t rape her.
@28: The surrogate mother’s name isn’t on the birth certificate. This is at least partially a problem with how different countries record births. In the Ukraine, the legal parents’ names are on the birth certificate, not neccessarily the biological parents’ names. So, the surrogate mother’s name isn’t even on the birth certificate.
@12: The child’s last name is Ghilain, so that’s Samuel Ghilain, son of Laurent Ghilain and Peter Meurrens.
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Koppenrepo…
As far as I understand it, and that’s not even completely, surrogacy is legal in the Ukraine, just not in Belgium. And apparently that’s the problem. They even had a paternity test, but that didn’t even help. How this works, I really really don’t understand.
Adoption for gay (male) couples in Belgium is virtually nonexistent. In the 5 years since it’s been possible for gay couples to adopt only 4 gay male couples managed to do so. They’re only elligible for the adoption of Belgian babies (no foreign adoption). There are now waiting lists of about five years to even start the education part of the adoption procedure, so that’s another while for the home visits and counseling, and then (thén) you’re put on the waiting list for a baby. I think it would take about ten years and even then the chances of being picked are slim.
To be honest, I don’t even care about the how and did or did they not make a mistake, and is it ethical or not… I really don’t care. All I care about is that there is a little boy in an orphanage when he has fathers desperate to take care of him. And that just breaks my heart.
I also get the impression the Belgian govt (in as far as we’ve got one) wants to make an example of him. They seem to forget this is someone’s life we’re talking about.
The US ain’t perfect but thank God/Buddha/Mother Earth or who the fuck ever, I live in the US in a state that doesnt hassle gestational surrogacy.
It’s just amazing that a lesbian can buy up as much sperm as she wants, use that sperm to spit out babies like her vagina is a fucking PEZ dispenser & folks think it’s great. She’s never questioned as to why she didnt adopt. But, if a gay couple dares to want a biological child then they’re branded by the gay community as deviants because they didn’t adopt.
@31: The failure of the paternity test just doesn’t add up. Laurent is the biological father, and a Belgian citizen. The surrogate mother (allegedly) does not appear on the birth certificate at all. The only other parent (allegedly) listed on the birth certificate is Peter, who is also a Belgian citizen and who is legally married (in Belgium) to the biological father.
As far as the documentation is concerned (and as far as we’ve been told), the child is 0% Ukrainian, and the Kingdom of Belgium should have a vested interest in the well-being of its presumptive young citizen.
I want to believe the parents, who are obviously distraught, but I’m increasingly convinced that there are muddying details being omitted (much the way an earlier telling of the story said they were arrested for kidnapping at the Ukrainian border, when in fact it was their female friend who nearly went to jail for child smuggling). Perhaps Laurent isn’t a natural-born Belgian himself — the couple actually lives in France. Or more likely, the birth certificate is not so clear-cut.
I hope everything works out for the parents and especially for the child, but it’s not helpful if it turns out they’ve cherry-picked the facts of the case.
I’m horrified. This is a dreadful story. I’m so sorry for all of them.
The Socialist Party is one of Belgium’s main political parties. Its leader (and one time Prime-Ministerial candidate) is openly Gay. His name is Elio Di Rupo.
Perhaps they should try and get in touch with him.
What were these guys thinking? Shouldn’t they have checked up on the law before hand? Having a child is hardly a small thing, and making sure that you will be able to bring your kid home if you do a foreign surrogacy seems rather basic. Did they do their homework, or just pay up to an agency that promised everything would work out ok? Yeah, the law may suck for gay couples who wish to raise a child together in Belgium. But that’s hardly an excuse for running off to conceive a child in a foreign country without actually verifying that you’ll be allowed to give it the loving home you want to. These guys seem selfish and irresponsible. However, the way the child is being punished is hardly fair either. A Ukrainian orphanage must not be a fun place to grow up. So, I propose the Belgian government grant this child his citizenship but refuse custody to the couple, and see to it that he is adopted by another loving couple. I hear (@31) that there are a lot of gay couples legally waiting for a child to adopt in Belgium. That way the Belgian government could make an example of this couple without penalizing the child.
@35: the documentary clearly states (in Peter’s own words) “Was it naive to think that Belgium would accept a child born from a surrogate mother? Maybe it was.. but I had informed myself at the Belgian Embassy, and they didn’t tell us that it’s Belgium that’s going to block it, and that they wouldn’t be able to give us the papers that were needed to get Samuel to Belgium! if they told us that beforehand, we would never have started it..”
so it seems to me they DID inform themselves before hand, this Peter guy is a cardiologist and a smart guy, I would be surprised if they would make such a gamble with their dream for a kid
-roel
you can HELP, by signing the petition: http://bit.ly/hE7DAO
passing this message/video to your contacts: http://bit.ly/et1Uvy
and by sending to consulbelg@org.lviv.net
a message like this, or any other concerns you may have about this case:
subject: My concerns for Samuel Ghilain.
Dear Sir,
I am highly concerned for Samuel, the son of Laurent Ghilain. I am deeply saddened and chocked that a child who has a loving family in Belgium is stuck in a Ukrainian orphanage because of administrative and legal ambiguities. I believe this is a violation of the child’s rights and an inhuman situation. I would like to do an appeal on your humanity and moral consciousness to grant Samuel his official papers so that he can go home and be with his loving father.
Sincerely,
36
“… and they didn’t tell us …” ISN’T the same as finding out or getting permission beforehand.
thety are stupid selfish fucks who went out of their way to create a human life that will be stuck in a hellish life.
way to go!
@9 – Ukraine is hardly a third-world country. Why don’t you use some of your Western “privilege” to do some traveling, educate yourself, and start respecting the rights of people in other countries to make their own decisions.
I’m with @35. This is a very sad story and I feel terrible for the kid; the guys have good intentions and the governments of Belgium and Ukraine are fuckwads BUT…. this seems seriously irresponsible of these guys. Intentional tunnel vision. They are nearly as guilty of what’s happening to this baby as any border agent of Belgium embassy twat. The laws of their country are ridiculous, but that doesn’t mean they can ignore them and expect a positive result for the baby. If your country is so douchey about these things either a) adopt or b) work to change the laws and then get a surrogate. But, no, their country bans surrogates and so they think running off to an eastern european country that’s barely dragged itself from the dregs of soviet communism to spawn with a for hire surrogate is going to work out? It’s selfish of them. They wanted a child biologically related to them (or one of them). What about adoption? Are there no kids in Belgium that need dads? Or what about committing yourself to changing those laws or at least working your ass off to make sure you can bring the child home safe, sound, and in a legal way before bringing a defenseless human into the world? Everyone except the baby in this story is to blame. And the baby is screwed.
I know it isn’t going to do much, but I signed a petition and wrote an email to the Belgian ambassador asking him to protect the parental rights of all Belgians – not just straight ones. No matter where you stand on gay adoption, you cannot possible argue that his kid will have a better life growing up in a fucking third world orphanage in Ukraine than he would have growing up with his biological father and an adoptive father who love him. “Every kid deserves a mother and a father,” so if they can’t have both, we’re forcing them to have NEITHER? What sort of fucked up alien logic is that? Are we going to force single mums to marry the fathers of their kids because every child deserves a mother and a father? Or maybe make some laws that single women can’t adopt anymore, and aren’t allowed to get pregnant?
Fuck Ukraine for being corrupt douchebags who are keeping this kid from his parents. Fuck Belgium for not stepping in. Fuck this orphanage for extorting the parents. I hope someone steps in and fixes this shit right away.
35’s comment is the stupidest piece of shit drivel I’ve ever encountered. You take away a child from his biological father simply because the father used surrogacy? Shit-stupid argument.
@40 – When we start condemning all these goddamn lesbians for running off to sperm banks instead of adopting then I’ll buy that fucked up line of reasoning that these guys should have adopted. A lesbian uses her twat as a fucking, human PEZ dispenser and all the world rejoices. Nobody asks, “Why didn’t you selfish bitches adopt?” But, if a man wants a biological child then all we hear is, “Oh, you’re so fucking selfish for not adopting.” Because, of course, as a community we shouldn’t be working towards equality. We should be telling gay men – “Look, fag, you’re goddamn lucky we let you have any children. So, don’t get any ideas about a biological child. We limit you, and only you (not lesbians, not straight men), to adoption only parenting.”
IT TAKES YEARS AND YEARS AND YEARS TO ADOPT. And adoption agencies can deny you for pretty much any reason they pull out of their ass. There was a story here in the US a little while back about an adoption agency who denied a Muslim woman because she “didn’t eat pork” and they were concerned that she might not let her child eat pork and that would be “child abuse”. Of course, the real reason was probably because she was Muslim- but the agency can make up anything they want to about why you’d make an “unfit parent”. So they could easily deny applicants for being gay and make up some bullshit reason about why they were denied.
Even if you’re accepted as an applicant, the application process takes YEARS. You have to send the agency all kinds of stuff- tax documents, essays, other legal documents, whatever. Basically you have to jump through a million little hoops and keep hounding them. Then, if they accept you, most agencies make you go through a bunch of parenting classes and such. This can also take a really long time and there’s yet more and more paperwork that takes months to go through and sometimes has to be re-submitted because the agency “never received” it. They will never ever call you back, you have to hound them every step of the way and basically twist their arms until they do what they’re supposed to do and actually look over your papers.
After the parenting classes and after all the paperwork, you have to wait for a child to “become available”. They don’t just let you come and get one. There’s- surprise!- yet more paperwork for the child.
And this is just my first-hand account of adoption in the U.S. I can only imagine how much worse it could be in other countries.
TL;DR version: You can’t just decide to adopt and pick up a baby the next day. It’s a legal process, and like all legal processes, involves mountains of paperwork, mix-ups, errors, fees, frustration, and most of all, time. If you manage to actually adopt a baby, you’re one of the lucky few. It seems like the adoption agencies would rather keep kids in orphanages than send them into loving homes with parents who want them.
I do not blame this couple for trying surrogacy, and if the stories about gay adoption in Belgium in this thread are true, neither should anyone else. They just want to bring their kid home, for god’s sake! Why deny him a loving home because his parents made a mistake?
Conservatives talk a lot about how important and great children are and how no one should ever get an abortion, but once a child leaves the womb, all that compassion evaporates. They don’t care if kids are raised in orphanages, raised by abusive parents, or homeless. They don’t care if kids never get shown a speck of love. As long as they don’t get raised by gay parents or single mothers, it’s all good.
@40: did you even watch the clip?
* the guys themselves state in the interview they ARE responsible for what happens, and they DO feel the guilt (you might let out your own YIPPEEES now) but they also feel the excrutiating love for their own child..
* also made quite clear in the clip: in Belgium surrogacy is not illegal, but it’s not legal either (they call it a jurisdictional vacuum – Belgium is the country of surrealists)
* in Belgium it is possible for gay couples to adopt since 2006, but it’s only possible for domestic children (because the only 4 adoption agencies only work with countries that don’t allow same-sex adoption – so you can’t i.e. adopt a US child through these agencies) and of all the applicants up until now only 4 gay couples were able to adopt a domestic child! (in 5 years!)
the new adoption-law only had the impact (and maybe the only intention?) of allowing adoption if one partner is the biological parent, so lesbian couples with spermdonor, or gay couples with a child from a previous heterosexual relationship.. allowing non-commercial surrogacy would help gay couples out in bearing their own offspring, then adoption would be no walk in the park but much easier then adopting a not-related child
-roel
An English Facebook page was set up for them as well, with information on the case and how to write to Belgian authorities.
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Justice-fo…
there’s a related clip from Ukrainian TV with English subtitles online
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NeZGq9nYN…
read the description to understand more of the situation
-roel
some good news from Laurent (today February 15th 2010):
“The Belgian judge said YES, we just got the decision. The judge recognizes after 2 years of waiting the ‘lineage’ (bond between father and son). Prosecutors still have 1,5 month as from 28/02 to appeal. We will demand a Belgian passport for Samuel at the Ministries of Foreign Affairs this week, and we cross our fingers that the response is immediate and that we do not hear of an appeal. If all goes well, it should go fast… let’s hope…”
Let’s cross our fingers and hope together with them!
-roel
Monsters. What is wrong with people?