Blogs Feb 11, 2011 at 3:53 pm


LIttle doubt about what's causing the weight... how about downing 2500 calories in one sitting.… Gluttony should not be supported.
Dan had all weekend, and that was the best he could do?

*currently singing 'sad trombone' to myself*
Dammit, now I love Lindy even more. How to explain this to Mrs. Jack... I'm with you, sister, and thank you for speaking up.
(Waving back, gus...) And don't even TRY to tell me that posting at 600, 900, and 1000 is just's an app, right?
@987 Yes, people think they are helping. My point was that their "help" is so incredibly off topic that their comments should be deleted. I get that people (men especially) go straight to "fixing" the problem when someone else expresses hurt. We really need to learn to hold back the "fix" and just listen. Be supportive. I will ask for your suggestions if I want them. If I tell you my rape survival story don't explain to me at length about how to balance my checkbook. You are not helping no matter how relevant financial responsibility is to a good life.

When a comment to a post demonstrates a total lack of comprehension then it is not worthy of being retained. The comment "no fat chicks" is more on topic than any anecdote of dieting success/failure. I disagree with the comment "no fat chicks" and find it appalling that someone reached the point in their life that they would post that. But it's honestly on Lindy's topic.

Lindy knows she's fat (see title of post). Lindy has heard of dieting and exercise before (she hasn't lived her life under a rock). (not referring to you here Canuck): Go back, re-read the post, and search your soul for some shred of decency. Fat people are not "fair game."
@975 re: your point 1. Are you fucking kidding me?! The fact that you believe only one gender perpetuates body image stereotypes discounts anything else you have to say on the subject of weight.
Canuck, it's not an app, unless by "app" you mean my ability to give myself nothing better to do...
i agree. also, you have fabulous ankles.
Lindy, please, is this a pity column? Do you think 'fit' people do not share in the similar generic sense of shame that are referring to? seems like you are just having trouble dealing with basic steps in life, albeit difficult ones, but basic emotions of inclusion and acceptance. We all share shame. Fat people, fit people, little people and tall people. Wish you would have not written this selfish piece.
Grats lindy!

What do you weigh today?
Maybe, the response that matters was expressed directly to Lindy? I don't know. But, I'd like to hope that his previously stated affection and respect for Lindy means that they have spoken, her feelings have been addressed, and they have made peace.
Loved it! You made some brilliant points. Don't mind the negative comments - there's always gonna be people out there who just don't get it! If more people speak out about this, they might catch on eventually!
Dan doesn't know how to apologize, it seems. Or admit when he's wrong.
Huh. There's an automatic jump in comments after 999. So the web gnomes foresaw that this day would come! Clever, clever web gnomes.
Am I the only one who hears Maggie Gallagher's voice when I read Dan's "response"? It's the typical "(insert group here) can do whatever they want and don't deserve to be mocked or discriminated against or poked with sticks. But the rest of us don't have to accept their lifestyle/behavior/choices."
@ Kim: that's what I hope. &, hope you are feeling better.
It's a fine waste of time, gus. Personally, I would like a shower, blow dry, and make-up app, so that I wouldn't have to waste time on hygiene and could, instead, keep refreshing this thread every 5 minutes...
@1019 Who says he's wrong? Strong feelings and 1000+ comments don't determine right from wrong.
Maybe, just maybe, Dan's closing of comments on his response is meant to keep generating comments on this thread, thus to help ensure it remains the record holding thread for a long, long time. But it was a very weak response. VERY weak.
@1017 That was beautifully said, Kim.
Go be fat somewhere else!
Goddamn it, Dan! This is America. We expect for you to debase yourself now, or didn't you get the memo? You can always turn immediately around afterward, pull a David Vitter, and say it's all forgiven because you've found the Lord and/or checked into alcohol rehab.
Good Lord. Lindy puts 'em on the table and calls her boss out, at no small risk to her job, creates an amazing dialogue on a complicated topic, and the only response he can come up with is basically ; "Oh well, I already answered this, so I don't have to say anything new. Plus, no comments! *Runs off to hide in office with the door closed*"

- A million respect points for Dan Savage.

+ Five billion respect points for Lindy.
First. (Apologies if this was posted already.)
Stop being fat.
I think all the anger and hostility on this blog towards Dan should really be directed at society and at people's own feelings about themselves. Society shames you (that is the first wrong), you feel the shame (that is the second, and the only one you have control over). If there was no basis behind the millions of studies on obesity, than you could do your own studies that show just how healthy and wonderful the US is.

I have a disease that I did not choose, and it makes it unpleasant to be around me sometimes. It also increases my risk of various cancers and other health risks IF I DON'T DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT. I don't always win that battle, but it is my battle to fight, not the people who think explosive diarrhea is gross, not the people who love me and want me to live the longest healthiest life possible. People should not assume things about you based on your appearance, but you should not give up just because it is hard. You will regret it down the road.
You're fat. Big fucking deal. I'm glad you love yourself, that's wonderful and a lot of people haven't gotten to that point in their lives. However, being fat *IS* harmful to your health. There is *no* way around that. It is *not* healthy. Sure, being too skinny is also bad for your health but that doesn't make being fat *healthy*. Do I think you should be shamed? Of course not. Do I think you should be taunted and harassed? No, there is no excuse for rudeness. Do I believe you should allowed to live in some sort of privileged wonderland where we can't say things like "Being overweight it demonstrably unhealthy" because it might hurt your feelings? Hell no!

As for the rolls of exposed flesh being unattractive thing? I personally don't find them attractive but some people do. So Dan did screw up by presenting opinion as fact and he should be taken to task for that. He was speaking the truth when he said being fat is unhealthy. You may not like to hear that but it is the truth.

Sure, there are always going to be those examples of fat people who are perfectly healthy and live a long and trouble free life. They tend to be the exception though and their exceptional existence doesn't change the reality for the vast majority of fat people.
I think all the anger and hostility on this blog towards Dan should really be directed at society and at people's own feelings about themselves. Society shames you (that is the first wrong), you feel the shame (that is the second, and the only one you have control over). If there was no basis behind the millions of studies on obesity, than you could do your own studies that show just how healthy and wonderful the US is.

You can either accept that you are fat and leave it at that, OR you can accept you are fat and that means you will have to work that much harder than everyone else to be healthy. Just like a kid with dyslexia accepts that they are not stupid, they just have to work that much harder to prove they are not. Or a person with multiple sclerosis has to accept that they have a life-long disease and they will have to work that much harder to have the "normal" life everyone else takes for granted.

And Dan probably didn't allow comments because he doesn't want to steal Lindy's thunder. Slog record in the making!
Mitten @ 1003 I get the feeling you are a basically kind person. It's your reading comprehension I have concerns about. Did you really read Lindy's post or did you just want in on this big ole comment party? Maybe go read 865 and see if that helps you understand that the actual matter of fat or health are secondary to how ridiculously wrong it can be to assume from a passing glance anything important about another person and how monstrously wrongheaded it is to demand other people contort themselves to your sensitivities. I hope we can all work on are biases so we can be more kind to each other even when we don't like what others do with their lives.
I have no problem with Lindy's body. I've always thought bigger women were hot, and she is no exception. It's her persona and awful writing that I find offensive.
I love how Dan's 'response' (cut + pasted) makes him appear like he's still sneering down the end of his nose.
I'm skimming the comment thread, and I'm not really impressed. For the record, I don't HATE fat people, but as part of my growing maturity I recognize there are plenty of people that love and admire fat people, even though I'm not one of them. I have a few fat friends here and there, and I don't care. They also happen to be dating more than I, and totally applaud them and support them. So long their is a mutual understanding that sex is not part of the friendship, everything is hunky dory.

There is more to dating than just being attractive physically. There is chemistry, logistics, time, money, and comparable values and agenda. I would be more impressed if people focused on THAT than their weight.

Do I feel that fat is less healthy, less attractive etc. etc. Well, yes, and I refuse to be shamed into feeling what I am and am not attracted to. That said, it's not my place or my job to be shamed into loving someone who just doesn't do it for me. And apparently, in many cases. I don't have to, there are other people willing to pick up the slack that I apparently don't have the "maturity" to accept.

I actually like Lindy's article. It is fun and witty, but I think she misses the point with respect to Dan. I'm not sure there is an answer that would be satisfying to so many of you besides a full on apology AND a night of sweet passionate love with Dan Savage. Is it not enough to say, you have the right to be whatever size you want to be. It is not enough to be accepted for who you are. It is not enough to be applauded for coming to terms with yourself and having a happy and fulfilling life?

Or is it about sweet gay love with Dan Savage? Tell us, is this what you want to hear? Because I am not sure what the correct response is.
What an absolutely craven response from Dan Savage today. Disallowed comments indeed.
Douchelord, your are indeed a douche. And Andy, you're an asshole, too. I am an "over"weight woman, and my husband finds me to be the most beautiful woman in the world. Guess what? I'm also "over"weight when I work out and watch every single calorie that goes into my mouth. So I don't need other people doing it for me, too. Yes, being overweight can negatively affect your health. So can smoking. So can drinking. So can stress and working too much. But do we, as a culture, judge people the same way for these decisions? No. In fact, in the U.S., we applaud those who are willing to go the extra mile and put in a 50+ hour work week. And much of the images in our media glorify the "nightlife." "Gotta little Captain in you?" F*ck that s*it. I'm tired of the hypocritical messages in our culture. And if I want a piece of chocolate cake, and decide to sit my ass down in front of the television and relax instead of busting my ass at the gym after spending my entire day educating our nation's youth, I'm reaching for it with gusto. Sorry if you don't like looking at my glorious curves, because I like them, and so does my husband. End of story. Deal with it.
lots of angry fat people here it seems...
Swinging by to say hi to Gus and Canuck and Kim and wish them a happy Valentine's Day!
@865 etc: Hydroza you rock!
@966: Riz, you are, and always will be awesome.
I must also add that I am disappointed in Dan for not allowing comments on his post this morning.
@ 1040 A potential correct response is:

"Although I feel that being overweight is unhealthy, & that we as a nation have an obesity epidemic; & I reserve the right to find whoever I want to attractive, & that doesn't include fat people, I recognize that overweight folks are people too, & deserve to be spoken to as respectfully as I would address any other group of human beings. Also, I don't happen to know the cause of anyone else's body shape, whether fat or not, so unless asked, I'm gonna keep my snap judgments to myself. 'cause the body of someone I don't know is NONE OF MY FUCKING BUSINESS."

"Also, when expressing my concerns over obesity in the U.S.A., I'm gonna do my best to keep my loathing in check, so whatever good & factual I have to say doesn't get lost in the shittiness of my disgust."

Or something like that.
@littlesparrow7 (984)

You seem to equate obesity and overeating. However, those two things are not the same: One is a physical and the other is a behavior, and while overeating certainly can contribute to obesity it is not the only factor. Plus, even if someone got fat by overeating their current weight does not give you any how they it at any given in time, or how they have been eating in the last weeks, even months. Also, for some of us fatties not trying to lose weight anymore means giving up a self-destructive behavior. I will go into more detail concerning this fatty’s history. Maybe that will make you understand a bit better… sorry, this is going to be long.

I have been fat as long as I can think. When I look childhood photos now, I am actually amazed that I do not look “that” fat, but I still was fat enough from a very early age on to make my pediatrician tell my parents that they needed to watch my food intake. And watch they did. I have lovely parents, but the fact that they constantly made me second-guess my body’s internal hunger and fullness signals (“Do you really want to eat this? Think about it. Are you REALLY hungry?”) combined with my teachers’ well-intended but sometimes cruel remarks (“If you don’t lose weight you will never get a boyfriend”) and the taunting and bullying of other kids significantly contributed to me developing maladaptive behaviors around food (such as getting up from the table before I was satisfied and then sneaking and later buying food secretly some time later, crying and feeling terribly ashamed while eating it, and later hiding the empty packaging in a desk drawer or a corner of my wardrobe because I was scared that my mum would see them if I threw them into the trash bin). Also, I started to hate my body and the constant message that my body was “broken” made me more reluctant to engage in physical activities that I actually enjoyed such as dancing and swimming. As a fat girl, I couldn’t be any good at dancing, after all, everyone knew that, including me, and while I was a good swimmer going to the pool was basically equally to asking others to bully me and call me names. When I was 11 or 12 I had developed full blown binge eating disorder.

I do not think people who comment on the “addictive nature of food” or on how there is a need to stigmatized overeating understand how much shame there is in binge eating already and how that shame contributes to the disorder. You feel bad about something, you have the urge to binge (often because under stress your self-control around food breaks down, something that has been shown again and again to be true for restricted eaters), at some point you give in, and even while you are eating you start calling yourself names in you head. This makes you feel terrible, and that in turn often contributes to the next binge. In addition to that, weeks or months of binge eating alternated with weeks or months of “successful” dieting in my case. I have fasted, dieted, and followed weight-loss programs supervised by doctors: I have done it all. And I always was “successful”, i.e., I always lost weight in the short term – lots of weight. In fact, I was called a “paragon” several times because I always, always stuck to my diet without cheating, eating less than I was “allowed” to eat, exercising more than I was asked to, several times losing up to 30 or 40 kg – until I just couldn’t keep it up any longer and started to regain. Lots of people will say that I would have needed to stick to the respective program for the rest of my life. And indeed, in order to keep the weight down I would have had to do just that. But here is the thing: Those weight-loss efforts had always a price. They came at the price of being constantly hungry and obsessed with food, and that obsession got only stronger the longer I kept up the respective diet. They came at the price at having less energy to do other things in my life. They came at the price of losing hair and once also my period (and it only returned several months after I had started to regain weight – and please note that even at my lowest weight since puberty I was still officially “overweight” bordering on “obese”).
Today I am a 31-year old “morbidly obese” woman. I try to engage in physical movement that is fun for me – something that isn’t easy, because believe me, going to a dancing class when you are fat or doing aqua fitness requires a lot of courage and on some days I do not have that courage, exactly because I am well aware that people find my body, my “obesity” disgusting. And I have recently given up dieting (and I define dieting as any conscious restriction of food intake). This isn’t the easy way out. In fact, this is incredibly hard. I have always, always craved social acceptance to a far higher degree than it is healthy – and I know that my fatness stands in the way of being totally accepted by others. Even today, every single comment from others how I “should” lose weight, how my weight is unhealthy, every implication that my body is broken, every disgusted look throws me back into a spin of eating disordered thoughts and not letting turn those thoughts into eating disordered behaviors – both, fasting or bingeing – requires more self-regulation and will power than people can imagine. Yes, my weight is a risk factor for certain diseases. But I believe (and that opinion is based on months and years of research and hard thinking) that continuing the cycle and not accepting my body as it is right now is a far greater threat for my mental and physical health.

You say you do not judge fat people but at the same time you say obesity is disgusting. You equate obesity with overeating and food addiction. I do not doubt that you mean well – but please, if you really want to have a positive influence on fat people’s health than listen to them, listen to their experiences. Create safe spaces for us to exercise. Encourage us and everyone else to cook, to truly enjoy food, to listen to our internal hunger and fullness cues. But also rethink what you are implying when you say obesity is disgusting. You cannot separate a person’s fat from the rest of their body.
i think dan just called lindy a 'dishonest paranoid douchebag'..
yeah ..i think that's what he said ...
What would be the point of having comments allowed on Dan's post? Isn't it obvious that

1) if you agree with Lindy you are just going to dump on Dan


2) you are a fat hater and since Dan has posted his disagreement (you can believe it or not) with you, why on earth would he want to hear support from you?
@1040 No one's been trying to shame you sweetheart. You might just be missing the point.
Eva, I was always under the impression that Dan was kind of a passively loathing individual, especially now that he has been doing this for so many years. I used to get a kick out of his gay bathhouse bashing. Some of the advice he gives to teenagers and young adults, with the whole get over yourself and move on with your lives while painfully trying to sugar coat, makes me titter.

Not to mention pitbulls

Now Dan gets to try even more EXTRA hard to inflate the verbiage around his feelings of something else he doesn't like.
@1047: Wait. Are you in the office right now? Did you just hear that? Crap! This is going to end in blows.
Lissa @1044 (Bet that's the only time I'll get to write *that* on Slog...)
Happy Valentine's Day to you, too! Glad to see wittle bunnies have trumped rabid snow cats...spring must be coming to the Pacific Northwest... xxoo
@1052: No, Riz isn't in the office, I'm sure. He's usually somewhere increasing his powers as a Seattle-area Music God.
This thread has no excuse for being this fat. I don't care if it's a controversial topic, which of course can't be changed. That's not enough to make this thread fat. The real reason is that a bunch of people chose to post in it. If so many people are going to post this much in the thread, it's the thread's own fault when it can't fit into its old bandwidth anymore. are hot. I don't think you need to feel offended by Dan or anybody else.…
"Finally, my brothers, beware of doing wrong to any hermit. How could a hermit forget? How could he repay? Like a deep well is a hermit. It is easy to throw in a stone; but if the stone sank to the bottom, tell me, who would get it out again? Beware of insulting the hermit. But if you have done so--well, then kill him too."
I'd support your application for "The Biggest Loser."
I don't think that Dan is a coward for not allowing comments. I think he just doesn't want to hear the same 'ole, same 'ole again. He's heard it all before. And what could possibly be said there that hasn't already been said here?

He gave the response he thinks Lindy deserves. I just wish he'd edited out the typos this time.

Something tells me that Lindy didn't run this by him first. Something tells me that he was hit with this blindsided. I have no way of knowing this, except that I think that Dan would have shown a hell of a lot more respect to her if he'd had even a small inkling of what was coming.
Many here are complaining about Dan's response, but what did he say that was wrong?
@1052... well technically no.. he called kate harding that a few years ago..but his response to lindy was to link and quote his response to kate..and then close the comments..there won't be blows of course (..although a shoe tossing weave tearing springer styled throwdown is what would end this 'conversation' proper.. )..but i suspect it will be one long assed while before dan will be able to shake the image of his new persona as editor in chief of 'the daily planet'
@1061 I suspect a lot of people wanted Dan to walk back any shaming or bullying-type commentary he may have made in the past in regards to fat people, and perhaps to say he won't do such things anymore. Which, as Dan has become the de facto anti-bullying spokesman at present, is where they're likely coming from.
@ Rob, like you, Dan missed the point by a country mile.
You know what's sad? Even people that are thin or skinny feel pressured to be thinner or skinnier from their friends, work etc. I weigh 150 lbs and have been told I need to lose weight at work, have felt overweight in comparison to anorexic gay men who look at you sideways if they can't see your kidneys.
1061, What shaming or bullying commentary has he made?
Oooh, what I wouldn't give to be a fly on the wall in the Stranger offices this morning.
I read your response to Dan's original statement and I felt you were projecting a bit. He was slippery retorting to the ridiculous slippery slope argument being made in the Iowa debate regarding health statistics and gays. You are the one who decided it was a personal jab at you because I guess you feel guilty about your muffin top or something.

You have way more control over your weight than anyone has over their sexuality. I say this as a straight man who is ~25 pounds heavier than I intend to be (I fluctuate in the winter time due to inactivity and heavy carb foods). You see who I blamed there? Myself. I don;t do shit because it;'s cold outside. I have the second helping of stuffing or pumpkin pie. I am the reason my jeans don't fit. And so are you.

You like links I see, so savor this:…
..but i suspect it will be one long assed while before dan will be able to shake the image of his new persona as editor in chief of 'the daily planet'
Oh riz, that is just lovely. Thank you!
@ 1060, there was a lot of buildup. Read "Ban Fat Marriage," then "RE: Ban Fat Marriage" (and pay particular attention to Dan's comments there - THEY are what informed this whole shitstorm). If you still think Dan could possibly have been "blindsided" by this - well, maybe by the degree of the response, but he all but begged for a post like this.

really, i appreciate your rebuttal to Dan's hateful comments Lindy.

as a feminist, i totally get that a woman's body does not exist to be sexually attractive to men. i don't wear make-up, i don't shave my legs - because i don't feel like wasting time on that stuff. if you don't like how my body looks, don't look at it. as a nurse, it is completely obvious to me that being overweight is unhealthy. frankly, it becomes exhausting to take care of fat people who demand double dinner trays. as a person who has always used food to deal with emotional stress, i know how hard it is to eat healthy & exercise. i empathize. but i also know that it makes me feel a million times better if i do it.
Dan's response would be approved by Miss Manners. Polite, explanatory, disclaiming, and not allowing for his readers to slam someone who appears to be a colleague he respects. Ms. Manners would not approve of Ms West's post, however.

I don't think Dan is the enemy, Ms. West.

As for the rant, which curiously manages to mix self-empowerment with victimhood, blah. Maybe you ought to stop assuming every fat person's experience and ability is identical to yours. Maybe you ought to learn to separate your friends from your enemies. And maybe you should treat other human beings as imperfect but wanting to be nice and do the right thing, instead of as cruel oppressors. Let me guess, women's studies?

I think it is officially time for a Dan VS Lindy dance off!!
@1066 like I said, may have said. So much of this is interpreted differently by different people. As a heavy dude that's been both thin and heavy in several cycles, calling me a fatass is water off my back, because I know that and I know exactly why I'm fat, and why I'm de-fatting right now. But by the same token, I'm sure there are gays and blacks and others out there that the most nasty of comments will be met with a cheerful "fuck you too" and it won't even bother them for whatever reason--while others will be crushed. We're all unique. Obviously, things that Dan has said or written have incensed Lindy, and if they've done that to her--they've done it to others as well.
also exercise is the best thing for your mental health.
Wow 1073, way to be a condescending douchebag.
Wow...1077...the price of a cheese pizza and a large soda at Panucci's.
Just want to comment here, finally, after over a thousand responses.

The comments seem pretty much divided in terms of the details concerning obesity and the many issues involved with it. The bigger message, though, is one I can latch onto- which is that we love you Lindy. You bring laughter and joy to most of us who read your work because you are an intelligent, witty, incredibly eloquent individual. And as a writer technically we never even have to see what you look like physically- so I have to honestly say no one should give a damn what you look like.

HOWEVER- that is where my love ends. Your message of "I don't give a fuck what you think" is both inspirational and a little delusional/dangerous. I completely agree with the people here pointing out that if you truly DIDN'T give a flying fuck you wouldn't have so passionately written what you did. You care. And honestly it's important that you care. That everyone cares. Fat, skinny, average- it doesn't matter WHAT your weight is, generally speaking. It matters what your habits are. If you are 263lbs, but eat plenty of veggies, fruits, and keep the processed foods to a reasonable level, exercise regularly, and maintain an active, mentally stimulating existence then you are probably quite healthy and not, in fact, a drain on society.

But it is very, VERY rare for a person of your height and size to be doing all this and not seeing some form of change to their body mass. And when you honestly analyze your habits I'm sure there are a few little things you could be doing to improve your health (regardless of whether that will help your weight- though it most likely will). In any event my last comment on that would be as long as you are keeping yourself healthy enough to avoid Type II Diabetes, or any other fat-related medical issues then keep on truckin'. If not? Then your "fuck you I'm fine" isn't exactly correct or a healthy mental state.

In concern with all this Dan Hate? Dear god. I mean seriously. Dear. God. I went back and read his works. I've read almost every single thing he's written- and honestly? No, sorry, he does not hate fat people and his rhetoric is not toxic. All of these people hailing Dan as the Fat Antichrist and how much of a "fat Bully" he is really disturb me.

It feels a lot like Isaac Haye's response to Southpark's episode about Scientology. He spends nearly, what, 9 or 10 seasons on that show, participating in the complete lambasting of every pop culture institution, organized religion, philosophical ideology, social group and cause. But suddenly, after the show set its sights on Scientology he quits the show in a huff- spouting "How DARE you attack my religion! You never show this kind of disrespect to anything else and it is obvious your biased hatred for my religious institution!" Which left the makers of the show scratching their collective heads. Ripping apart religion is a corner-stone of Southpark and has been since their very first short (Santa Versus Jesus). But the minute they attack HIS religion it's suddenly hate speech worthy of him severing ties? Pathetic.

Dan is a blunt motherfucker. He calls it like he sees it. His "vitriol" about fat people is no more or less than any other group out there. His anger over the the Professional Gay Community's seeming need to blame the person who contracted HIV while staunchly defending the person who gave it to the individual being a good example. Sure he's 100% for gay rights, but that doesn't mean he's unwilling to call the gay community out for their own bullshit.

And the same exact thing can be said about his opinion of fat people. He calls them out on the overall health detriments of such a body-type and generally the kind of lifestyle that (not always, but more often than not) propagates it. And MORE often than not he's blaming our society and it's institutionalized propagation of obesity with their subsidies and food lobbyists just as much as individual responsibility. It's just in this case he's using the exact same language and temperament in concern with something that affects YOU- and suddenly you find him repulsive for it. Repulsive and evil for doing the same thing with the subject of body fat that he does for every other subject he talks about.

Just because it's suddenly closer to home does not mean he's treating the subject with any more or less respect than he treats anything else. You are simply seeing it that way.

Finally I have to agree with post, what was it, 448? The commenter wrote: "All that said, I'm not so sure about this equivalence between being fat and being gay. Setting aside the marriage thing, I've never heard of someone being beaten or killed by a couple of thugs for being fat, or having their parents drill into them that they are a moral abomination for being overweight. I'm not trying to be insensitive; I'm genuinely curious." And I agree completely with the point she is making. Sorry, Lindy- that is utter bullshit. Fat people and gay people aren't even in the same stratosphere. Sure there is absolutely a problem in our country, especially in our schools, with people bullying others over their weight. But I rarely hear about a person getting beat up or physically harassed or receiving even close to the same kind of hatred that gay kids get. Do overweight kids deserve an It Gets Better message of their own? Absolutely. But you are dead wrong if you think Gay and Fat are in any way equivalent.
@1046 fatcarrot

Though I appreciate and respect your experience, I'm still doubting the idea that obesity comes from anything other than overeating. Yes, there's such thing as thyroid issues and slow metabolism (which I have as a result of past anorectic behaviour), but they usually only lead to slight weight problems. If you're eating the proper calorie amount for your height and weight, and have made sure there's no underlying psychological issue or disease, then there's no reason to be obese.

There are some psychological and physical diseases that lead to overeating, and these underlying factors need to be resolved for a person to live a full and active life.

I do know, intimately, what binge eating is all about, along with anorexia and bulimia. I've been there, done that. I KNOW what shame linked with food can do to a person. It's awful. It took be awhile, but I finally realized that my food issues were related to past sexual abuse I'd experienced. Before I made that connection, the problem had complete control over me. I'm not saying everyone with an eating problem has experienced sexual abuse, but I do believe that every addictive behaviour has an underlying psychological origin. You can't get rid of the addiction without honestly and courageously addressing the pain.

The problem I have with basic dieting and exercise programs is that they don't address the problem or the core of the issue. If a person is eating (or not the case of anorexia), there's an underlying issue that first has to be exposed, fully uncovered in all its ugliness, and then dealt with in full. If not, the person will never have control of their bodies, their impulses, or ultimately...their wellbeing.
Dan still thinks fat people are icky. Ewwww!

poor judgment on his part, considering he's been fighting against the conservative/'real merikans' exact same reaction to the 'mos for decades.
@1079 Just wanted to say I'm in complete agreement with everything you wrote.
Lindy rocks and Andrew @2 - glad it works for you. But STFU about generalizing your experience. You've never been a menopausal woman and watched your body betray you. Less food, more exercise and the pounds just stay there. Even more exercise and the pounds just stay there. I worked out twice a day, 6 days a week for 4 solid months and didn't lose one goddamn pound. I was fit as hell, very toned and couldn't lose a single pound. So Andrew, again, STFU.
@1070. Hi Matt. I read the buildup. I wonder if she consulted Dan and told him that she'd be calling him out all over the Internet. I wonder if she showed her boss that much respect.

If she did, then good for her. But Dan's response is more indicative of someone who feels like he's been blindsided than not.
@1082- phew. Glad I'm not alone in my view on this issue. ;-)
Lindy, you are most excellent and thank you for this post.

One thing to contribute for those who are trying to lose weight -- not eating anything fatty is not necessarily healthy. The overwhelming pressure put on women, gay men, etc. to stay thin causes many to avoid important, healthy fats that can be found in sources like avocados and olive/vegetable oils. We need these fats for a healthy immune system and they are also important for having enough energy for, among other things, exercising and being active. So if you do try to change your diet, please read up and if you can afford it, see a nutritionist to make sure your body is getting what it needs.
@ Jade, maybe so. But that seems to be the way they do things on slog. I can think of other times this has happened (although not to the degree that it generated such a response).

I can see Dan being caught unaware or unprepared, but "blindsided" connotes a calculated sneak attack, and I think that's not what happened here. (It would be in keeping with his dramatic nature to take it that way; but obviously we don't know what's happening in the office and we won't have any clues until either Dan or Lindy start posting again.)
Dan is definitely a bully, and pretty cowardly. Remember the way he bullied that local TV reporter, Marlee Ginter (I think that's her name?), because of an segment she reported that wasn't sex-positive enough, or something like that. Dan basically tried to ruin her career, so that if you googled her name, all this stuff about sex with goats came up. She eventually had to get her lawyer on his ass, and Dan had to stop and apologize on here -- but was too proud to admit he was forced to by threat of lawsuit, and said he was just doing it to be 'nice.' Yeah, right.
...but obviously we don't know what's happening in the office and we won't have any clues until either Dan or Lindy start posting again.

Absolutely true. I realize my posts are nothing more than speculation.
949: Wow, you completely misread and misunderstood me.

1. I was complimenting your comment at 865.

2. My "frivolous" compliment of Lindy's shoes is sincere and not some back-handed insult to her humanity. It was an off-topic item. I'd made other comments on the thread more relevant to the discussion. Besides, my hunch is that Lindy wouldn't object to a compliment of her shoes. If she herself didn't appreciate nice-looking shoes, she'd be wearing Crocs or Uggs. ANYWAY...

3. My reference to brevity was re: My previous posts. As a "morbidly obese" person myself, I could've offered my 10 paragraphs of my trials and tribulations, but opted for brevity. That's all. Whatever.

PS Dan not offering comments on his rebuttal speaks volumes.
Lindy, I'm sure you've seen this, but if you haven't....local fantabulous actor/director Kate Jaegar's performance of the Katie Thompson penned song, I'm Not Pregnant, from New Voices 8 ...hilarious. I love Kate so much.…
Every major health organization has said that obesity is unhealthy, but when Dan repeats their findings it's wrong?
Lindy is right. And some fat people think Dan is icky.
Huh. Most of the Stranger staff made really, really supportive comments to Lindy's post. I wonder how they feel about Dan's cowardice? Working for someone who behaves like this must be really, um, interesting.
I predict that the only way this thread ends is to crash the system, or do an editorial cut off.

HOWEVER - the very BEST way would be for Lindy and Dan to do a joint post here (either drawn swords or a slobbering kiss and make up) and THEN do a "thank you" cut off.....
I didn't realize the comments could go over 1000!
@1090 agreed, dan's refusal to let anyone comment on his rebuttal speaks louder than any of his boring out of context quotes from old columns.
@1079, well said.

I read through the links in the OP that are supposed to document Dan's fat-shaming, and seriously, I don't see it. I see him talking with the same characteristic humorous bluntness that he brings to everything, including himself.

Again, I like both Dan and Lindy and it seems senseless that this should turn into one against the other.
@1092, your brain needs more calories. Go eat something.
You know, I think this reaction is irrational and over the top. But it also makes complete sense to me.

Food is an addiction. Over-eaters are like drug addicts.

When you criticize addicts about their drug use, they fly off the handle. They do everything in their power to convince you that you shouldn't criticize them.

I was like that about smoking. When people talked about how it was bad for me, it made me LIVID. It was a visceral reaction, "HOW FECKING DARE YOU!"

I completely identified with Lindy's post except change, "I'm fat" to "I'm a smoker" and make the whole thing private because it's a much harder sell when it's about smoking.

Especially the whole, "I'm much more likely to lose weight if you stop talking about how I should lose weight." I've actually seen people make the argument, on many occasions, "When you tell me how bad it is for me, it makes me want to smoke more."

I'm not saying it's a lie, either. Facing a tough life change produces anxiety and your drug of choice usually helps you deal with anxiety. Laying down and giving in to that is no solution.

You probably shouldn't live in this beautifully circular construct where you cant' stop unless there's no reason for you to stop. But, if there's no reason for you to stop....

Instead, find a different way to deal with these emotions that won't likely end your life prematurely.
@1079 ... very perceptive.

The more I actually think about what Lindy wrote -- and as much as I love her way with words -- I think she's just really, really off base here.
New Dan post of more evidence in rebuttal! Where is our dance-off video? Kelly O, we need your help!
Yeah, Savage comes off looking like he can't be bothered to actually respond to what Lindy said in her post, and his unwillingness to accept comments speaks volumes about his sanctimonious character.

I've been reading him since The Stranger was a few pages that folded in half, and I've never felt so little respect for him. Boo, hiss.
hey baconcat.. thanks ..this whole thing made me think of a song. from a musical too. dan likes musicals right ? from 'hair'…
While I respect and agree with almost everything Lindy has to say, I must deign to address the "List of Thin Privileges" is complete bullshit. I am fairly thin for my size, through absolutely no effort of my own. I'm just like this, my favorite activities include smoking pot and ordering Pagliacci, because they will deliver gelato to my door. And while I might not be marginalized to the extent that overweight folks are, I can say that about half of that list actually *does* apply to me.
If you think that thin/underweight folks don't get harassed for looking anorexic/too thin, or they don't have to deal with bullshit back-handed "compliments" from friend that merely seek to single you out for making them feel bad.
And being dismissed on my opinions on fashion/food/whatever because, "oh, you're so skinny." I am constantly identified by the size of my body. I hear about the size of my body daily. I am grouped and stereotyped because of the size of my body.
And if you think that my size doesn't affect my health, you're wrong again. My sized turned a stomach flu into a 3-day hospital stay because I was so depleted and weak.
I do have to deal with unsolicited advice about my diet from people who have deemed me "too skinny."
That list is crap.

@1100 tried: "Food is an addiction. Over-eaters are like drug addicts."

Except that if you stop eating, you die. It's not really the same, but do try again.

Dan's new post seems pretty defensive. Sure, he's managed to be civil in several questions involving overweight people. But his hatred for fatties has been pretty clear in others. He's obviously pissed some people off, but rather than acknowledge that he's just saying "nuh-uh."

I'm finding Dan's column about 90% less interesting now. He doesn't really say anything novel. I guess I used to read it partly because he seemed like a good guy.
I think Lindy is really pretty.

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