SL Letter of the Day: Have At It, Gang

1. Let your wife handle any punishment she deems necessary. You voided your parental duty to reprimand your daughter for violating your privacy when you made the decision to take the course of action that lead you here.

   Don’t move out without talking to your family first though. You’re not being offered a free ride to do as you please. You have responsibilities to your family that you really just need to man up and accept.

2. He is in no position to impose morality on anyone right now. He violated not only his wife’s trust, but that of his daughter as well. She did what most teens would be inclined to do under such circumstances – out the hypocrit – and I don’t blame her.

   Yeah, if the mom wants to assign some sort of moral of the story, then that’s her call.

3. Oh my.

   One would hope the daughter would have been more considerate of the woman’s children, at the very least. Hurt the woman by sending the pictures to the husband- even her parents, fine. But to HER children? That’s her lashing out and trying to hurt this woman and her family as much as she perceives this woman hurt her (the teen) and her family.

   I don’t think the mother may be the most impartial judge of how to apply consequences here, either. Dad is definitely not. What’s a logical consequence here? She did invade someone else’s privacy and posed as her father online.

   Really, though, I think all this may be punishment enough. This kid is going to be very angry with her father for a very long time. Dad should be more concerned at getting the family into counseling for damage control than with throwing the book at his daughter, who is hurting and lashed out- all because of his affair & carelessness.

4. Dude– you’re toast. Your daughter’s faith in men has probably been wiped out, and in her eyes, you’ve been betraying the family.

   Trying to “punish” her now, especially since you’re still harboring fantasies of not losing your family will only do one thing– insure that the next time she speaks to you is 20 years from now at her wedding, and you’ll be lucky if it’s that early.

   Seriously, move out, start damage control, and realize that your “higher sex drive” just torpedoed your relationship with your family.

5. Holy fucking shit, FUBAR D, are you NUTS!?!

6. Why the fuck are you concerned with what’s an appropriate punishment for your daughter when your life has just exploded?

7. If they live in Virginia, maybe he can get the local prosecutor to throw the daughter in jail for “sexting”? More seriously, WTF is FUBARD doing worrying about “punishing” his daughter? What a dildo!

8. Your daughter did what any teenager would do, and probably has done.

   And there is nothing teenagers hate worse than a hypocrite. So here’s what you say: I did something wrong in concealing pertinent info from my wife, and the consequence to this is that I am moving out, your mother and I are going to counseling, and in general my life is a mess. You did something wrong too, in revealing sensitive information to far too many people. The natural consequence of that is that your dad is going to move out, your family is most likely going to be a subject of discussion at your school, and you will probably have trust issues with both of your parents for a while. In general, your life will be more of a mess than it could have been. You’ll live, and you’ll learn.”

   Repeat: “That your mom and I are having issues is not your fault. That it blew up this badly kinda is. So sorry that that will suck for you to deal with.”

   enough punishment.

9. Yeeeeaaaaahhhhhh…I think if you’re cheating you have an obligation to not get sloppy about it. Dude: you got sloppy. This is on you, so fucking own it.

10. Here’s the thing: Your anger is a reaction of self-preservation. The punishment you’re suggesting is incongruous with the crime. If this was a prank pulled by one of your college friends you’d be annoyed and shrug it off after a few months.

    All punishment decisions SHOULD be made by the wife in this situation, there’s no doubt about that. However, there is also no doubt that the daughter should indeed be punished. The danger here is that the wife may be rewarding the child for behavior that in any other circumstance would be considered abhorrent. That shouldn’t be allowed to stand simply because she was essentially the beneficiary in this situation (although I cringe at using that word to describe what happened to her).

11. The daughter should be “punished” with you paying in advance for a good therapist. You’ve raped her ability to ever have a decent relationship with a male, probably forever. You are a hypocrite of the highest order. You took the risk of destroying two families, both with children, and when you got caught, you want to punish the person who caught you? Leave. Get as far away from this poor kid as you can before you do more damage. If you believe in a deity, pray it sends her someone worthy of her respect to help her deal with the rest of her life. She held a mirror up to you, you first-class asshole, and you want to punish her because you don’t like what you saw? Your radical self-absorption screams “addiction,” so get your ass to AA or NA while you’re at it. You are a despicable human being who is unworthy to have such an intelligent, passionate child anywhere near your life, much less living in your house. Sarah Palin, Dick Cheney, and Rick Santorum are more worthy of your daughter’s respect than you are. I hope you get exactly what you need to learn how horrible a human being you really are and what you really deserve, which is the worst possible curse I could ever wish on the likes of you.

12. There’s no right to privacy from your kids. Anything you bring into their lives is your fault.

    Teenagers are an elemental force when it comes to information distribution. Be grateful the photos didn’t end up as a youtube slideshow.

13. The wife is just as emotionally involved as the husband, I’m not sure why she’s somehow magically more able to judge.

14. dude doesn’t have a moral leg to stand on. let the wife do it. not even sure the daughter deserves any punishment at all. she shouldn’t have been put in that position in the first place. it is fubard’s fault if anyone got hurt.
    fubard is a complete ass for even asking.

15. The daughter definitely needs to be punished. What she did was understandable in the sense that she was likely extremely traumatized by what she found; 15-year-olds aren’t known for their cool-headedness and maturity in situations like this. But impersonating her dad and then forwarding the pictures to his girlfriend’s parents and children? That crosses a line of basic human decency. Yes, dad fucked up – big time. But 15 is old enough to have at least a scrap of empathy.

    Community work is a good place to start. Separating her from her friend might not be a bad idea, but is unlikely to work and likely to backfire. She needs to understand the gravity of her actions, and that things in the world of adults are not as black and white as they appear at 15. I think that, while the wife should have input on any punishment, the dad should also have a say. Parents, even when they make bad decisions (with a few notable exceptions), still need to have the ultimate authority. Doing this sort of thing to her father with little to no consequences now will make her think that this is an acceptable way to handle morally fraught situations in the future. She needs to know that while yes, she and many others were hurt by her dad’s actions, her behavior was completely unacceptable.

16. Okay, FUBARD. You dun goof’d, and your daughter backtraced your something-on-the-side. I say let your wife handle it, as you don’t really have much moral standing in your family any more. Don’t try to be the cyber police, or even just the state police, in your household; just remove yourself from the situation and work things out with your (possibly soon-to-be ex-) wife before you reengage with your children.

17. You’ve screwed up her family life at an incredibly formative age, you’ve probably warped all of her future relationships with men – and you want to give the kid *additional* punishment? All she’s done is to react exactly like a teenage girl can be relied on to do at the sort of stimulus you were careless enough to let her fall upon.

    There’s a trope that says that people who let themselves get caught as easily as you did meant, at some subconscious level, to get caught. Perhaps this will clarify some issues about how to live your life for you. But give your kid a break; all she’s done is to act according to the same set of morals you probably had at her age.

18. your daughter committed a completely unspeakable act in response to what she perceived as your own completely unspeakable act. punishment? imo, no. a long, LOOOOOONG series of talks about how what both of you did was completely fucked to the 9s followed by what it means to be a human & have conflicting needs & desires & how you have to manage the affects of your actions on others. if you play it right, over the long haul, it could be the beginning of a quality adult relationship w/ your child.

19. Comment 8 hits the right balance. Honestly, the mess her life is about to become is punishment enough. This is a case where she’ll discover a very straight line between actions and consequences. There’s no need to make that more explicit to her.

20. Offer to move out. Let your wife know that whichever way she decides, you will abide by her decision — and if she changes her mind, you’ll abide by that decision. And let her decide what punishment, if any, is appropriate for your daughter. You’ve kind of destroyed their lives, or the lives they thought they had. You have no rights in this situation.

21. So the lesson is, “people who do things we don’t like deserve to be punished”? Is that really what you want to teach her right now, today? If she learns it well enough, she’ll be punishing you for a very long time.

    I’d go with, “people who do things we don’t like deserve to be forgiven, because we love them.” Forgiveness brings people together; punishment drives them apart. Which do you want?

22. Isn’t the daughter punished enough by having FUBAR Dad as a parent?

23. I’m with ns. The only punishment this teen deserves is to learn that he/she cannot lash out in rage on innocent others. I think in the coming months he/she will be learning that the hard way.

24. you punished your daughter enough already, scumbag.

25. I agree with Dan that the decision should ultimately be up to your wife.

    Only thing you can do is emphasize that your daughter didn’t merely take this information and go to your wife, and your girlfriend’s husband, or something along those lines, but she aired the dirty laundry in a very public and humiliating way. She didn’t even let your wife/your girlfriend’s husband decide if and how they wanted to tell mutual friends, so the embarrassment, I would think, is not limited to you and your girlfriend.

    You can say it would be one thing if the only issue were that she violated your privacy and exposed the affair – you wouldn’t have an argument about that. What she did went way beyond that, and she didn’t even consider the feelings of the (other) people who were wronged and hurt by your affair.

    I would agree some punishment is in order, but grounding her for a year, sending her to her grandparents and disallowing her from seeing her best friend? Sorry, but that’s just you being angry about getting caught, and not about what she did, and is way disproportional. Your wife’s punishment sounds much more reasonable. What I said above is, I think, the best case you can make to your wife for a harsher punishment, but don’t be surprised if what your wife decides on isn’t any worse than what she originally proposed.

26. General agreement that the CPOS has no right to enforce penalties because, he has no moral high ground to stand on. Your daughter doesn’t trust your integrity, you CPOS, and that makes you an ineffective disciplinary. If you want her to learn any lesson other than “adults are hypocrite bastards” let the only parent with a shred of credibility dole out the punishments.

27. I think his daughter, at worse, should be left alone. She was traumatised enough by what she found out about her dishonest, cheating liar of a father. At best I’d give her an award, a nice trip to the mall would do. Her father is an irresponsible ass who carelessly and thoughtlessly hurt two families. I have no respect for men who lie, cheat and think they deserve a family. You, sir, are a rat!

28. This guy is blaming his daughter for his bad behavior, and clearly want to figure out how to justify it.

29. FUBAR, you fucked up and you are trying to pin even a tiny portion of the responsibility on a completely innocent child. I think you are in complete denial that your affair not only was a betrayal of your wife, but also your daughter. She no doubt had fantasies about the kind of life she wanted to live, with a family as stable and good as the one she was growing up in, and those perfectly respectable, necessary dreams were ripped out of her 15 year old psyche in as brutal a way as possible, thanks to your careless schlong-focused brain. YOU’RE HER FUCKING FATHER AND SHE IS 15 YEARS OLD. She is at the stage in her life when she is forming all the critical, life-long visions of what men should be like, how they should treat her, etc. What you should do? Beg her forgiveness, tell her you were wrong, and ask if she would deign to go to counseling with you. Make it clear that all of these steps would be to you a huge favor, and to her evidence that she is a SIGNIFICANTLY BETTER PERSON THAN YOU. In this way you may rescue her from a lifetime of failed, if not outright abusive, relationships.

    You should do all of the same with the wife, but the daughter has her own separate and distinct trauma to work through, and you owe it to her to recognize that.

    Punish her? Fuck you.

30. If your life just imploded while simultaneously shitting on you, and you’re worried about punishing your daughter for orchestrating it, you’re motivated by revenge. And no parent motivated by revenge should ever be allowed to punish a kid. That’s why you count to ten before spanking (if you’re a parent who spanks; I’m not).

    But to answer the original question: you can’t punish her for a lack of respect, cruelty, disregard for basic humanity, when absolutely nothing you have done was ANY different. You used your “higher sex drive” to rationalize fucking around, it destroyed 2 families, and in her pain and shock and betrayal your daughter lashed out. What she did was way less than what you did, and it was age appropriate to boot. Let your wife handle it and walk off with your tail between your legs.

31. Cut off the daughter’s internet access. Close any social network accounts. Give her a dumb phone that can be used to make calls but not send pictures or texts.

    The internet can be used to wreck lives. Is she going to do this to her frienemies at school? Will she be on the same slut-shaming kick as the kids who forward around private photos that leak out?

    Time to learn right from wrong.

32. Movies, songs, and tv shows really celebrate people catching/punishing/getting revenge on cheaters so I don’t think there’s any way you can make her see her actions as wrong. You can punish her and make her feel like a martyr or you can try to make her consider other aspects of the situation and all the factors she didn’t know and maybe make her think twice in the future.

    What your daughter did had hurtful, cruel consequences and it might be wise to emphasize to her, although I don’t know how effective any argument will be coming from you since your credibility with her has been severely damaged, but somebody should talk to her about consequences, as in, how must that woman’s children feel seeing the pictures and would she want to be ambushed by pictures like that of her parents, and that while she was right that this was an affair and you were cheating on her mom, that’s not an assumption she should automatically make. What if it had been a consensual affair and your wife and the woman’s husband knew about it and no one was doing anything wrong? Then it would have been cruel and uncalled for for her to send the pictures to that woman’s friends, kids, and folks. Maybe it would have been better to talk to her mother before taking any actions, especially since the harm was being done to her mother, so it was her mother’s place, and not hers, to punish the offenders.

    Not that I’m saying you or the woman deserved to be punished. I’m not touching that. But I don’t think you’ll make any impact if you try to convince your daughter that you and the woman are wronged parties in this situation.

33. Punish away, let it come *mostly* from the wife, and make it absolutely crystal fucking clear that punishment is for lashing out at innocent people. Ya, daughter had every right to lash out at Dad, but royally fucking a whole community? Unacceptable.

34. Honestly? Your daughter is a bitch, FUBARD. And unlike many here I simply don’t believe the affair was wrong. The only wrong here is the stupidity of getting careless. Regardless, though- it’s rather clear and telling on the character of your daughter that she didn’t at least confront you before fucking up untold lives here. Together your carelessness and her immaturity and horrible decision making skills have possibly ruined dozens of lives- instead of only possibly ruining three. As for punishment? I think she’s received, and will continue to receive enough punishment from the fallout of this as it is. Her home life is shattered, your trust in her (and even your liking of her possibly) is gone, as is hers for you. Your wife is now victimized and can’t possibly offer proper comfort in this situation. And now she has another family who despises her and you. I agree with others who say now is not the time for further punishment. Now is time for group therapy. Get in there and get professional help to at least restore some normalcy- knowing full well it will never be the same and that alone will be punishment enough for everyone involved- even your wife.

35. But then again, what I said is more of how to get what you want… a harsher punishment.

    It might be appropriate to point out that if this were another family only that was affected by this affair (even if it was someone close to the family, and so the daughter felt she had to speak up), what she did would be a horrible way to go about it. And she would deserve punishment in that case.

    In this case, your whole family’s lives are messed up by what you did, and how she exposed it. As others have pointed out, she’s not going to be happy in the meantime anyway. You and your wife should clearly express why what she did was awful (and exposing your affair in and of itself is not the issue), with emphasis on how it affected people *besides* you and your girlfriend. So maybe it’s enough to explain that she would be punished, if not for the fact that you are more concerned about how you can all best resolve this situation (whether that entails you and your wife staying together or not).

36. Independent of FUBARD’s absolutely retarded asshole behavior, holy shit, the daughter and her friend *did* behave poorly. This was a highly sensitive situation and she decided to treat it with Napalm. Lame.

    That said, any punishment administered by the father will be seen, correctly or incorrectly, as revenge. He cannot administer anything even vaguely resembling punishment himself.

    If, beyond all the effort the family is going to expend recovering from this scorched earth incident, there is any energy left for them to pay attention to the daughter individually, they need to make sure their reactions to her are guided in such a way as to help her process WHY what SHE did was wrong. We’re not talking punishment as much as education.

    Her behavior was insensitive, cruel, irresponsible, and hurtful. Not as bad as her father’s ridiculous idiocy, for sure, but definitely in the same vein. What an incredibly bad plan.

    Good luck with that.

37. Jesus Christ, #11.

    This will only ruin his daughter’s whole life if she lets it and there is no need for that at all.

    And really, lying about an affair that isn’t hurting anyone (until its inevitable discovery) is worse than trying to provoke people to assassinate the President or sending us into a war that costs tens of thousands of lives?

38. Move out. Find immediate, compassionate, personal and family counseling. Admit that you brought this trauma onto your family by YOUR actions and YOUR carelessness. Your absolute willingness to get caught put your young daughter in a very difficult predicament. Your knee-jerk anger towards her and your pushing blame for this train wreck onto her is rather despicable. It was your web of deceit, not your daughter’s. She certainly made some poor choices, but one can hardly hold children accountable for starting a fire when the kindling and matches are set out by the parents. It appears you all have boundary issues and again, perhaps the best mediator would be a compassionate third party who can help sort this out and salvage whatever is left. I’d give your wife plenty of breathing room. It should be her decision what happens next, not yours.

39. Whatever the punishment for the daughter, it should be no more in scale and scope than the punishment of the father.

40. I can’t believe all the people who are saying that the daughter doesn’t deserve to be punished, just because the dad is a CPOS. She did something very very wrong. Like Forky said, the daughter didn’t just quietly take the information to her mom and the girlfriend’s husband and let them deal with it how they saw fit. She decided that it was her job to punish her father, and did so in a spiteful and cruel way – not just cruel to her father and the girlfriend, but cruel to her mother, the girlfriend’s husband, and many family members. Furthermore, it is not the job of the child to punish the parent. She’s an adolescent and, at least in this case, clearly not capable of making good choices (note: the dad didn’t make good choices either – that’s why dealing with punishment should be the mom’s job). The daughter needs to learn that what she did was not okay.

    Everyone in this family could probably use some therapy at this point, and since no one in this situation is going to be able to be an impartial observer in any sort of way, I think the mom should consult the therapist about appropriate punishment.

41. Punishment for snooping in email and impersonating her dad?

    I don’t know… grounded for the weekend maybe? Tell her she wouldn’t like it if someone did that to her. That she should respect other people’s privacy like she’d want her own privacy respected.

    Teens do impulsive stuff, hopefully she’ll get it and not do stuff like that again, but it may take a couple times.

42. I think it’s absolutely off the wall to expect a traumatized 15 year old girl to behave in any particular way. What is appropriate to an adult who has their own freedoms, who’s brain is fully developed, who understand so much more about where he/she stands in relation to people who do them wrong – it has absolutely no bearing on the very real and very traumatized reactions of this child.

    To punish her for failing to stand up to a certain level of behavior in this situation is cruel in the extreme and would be the absolute end of FUBARs relationship with the girl. If mom participates, she’s abedding an abuser, in my opinion.

    You can’t say it was dad’s private business for a girl at this age. There’s too much going on in the daughter/dad relationship at this age that makes this a complete and total violation. Yes, raping her would have been worse, but not much.

43. From the general tone of this comment thread no one here has ever made a bad decision or hurt a loved one. Having an affair is a terrible thing to do, but we don’t know all the details. Shitting all over this guy is easy from an anonymous standpoint, but these things are complicated in the real world – there is such a thing as nuance when it comes to morality.

    I’m not defending his actions, but say this guy’s wife refused to put out and his sexual frustration was beginning to interfere with his ability to maintain his marriage. Of course what he did totally undermined his marriage anyway, but it’s not like he just up and left his family for the sake of his own sexual satisfaction. Yes, yes, cheating is the worst thing you can ever do, blah blah blah. I’m sure none of you have ever or would ever cheat on a spouse. But even parents have sexual needs – shocking, I know! – and 15-year-olds, especially in this day and age, aren’t exactly innocent children.Yes, the dad’s a CPOS, but the daughter is a POS too. Parents are human and sometimes fuck up, and 15 is not too young to understand that.

44. I applaud your daughter, sir.

    You lose.

    Good day.

45. @44, I think everything you say is true, but it’s up to the girl to come to those opinions later, with age and wisdom, not in the context of this trauma. She will learn absolutely nothing from any kind of punishment. Dad needs to grab his responsibility in this squarely by his own wandering balls and hold on tight. He can’t let even an ounce of it fall onto the girl. Or he’ll never be her father again.

46. Holy shit, indeed. That’s a tough one. On the one hand, I agree with those who have said that your daughter has and is going to suffer enough from all this. But on the other hand, she didn’t just out your girlfriend as a cheater, she destroyed her. There were only two people who “needed” to know that you and this woman were cheating: you and her husband. That your daughter would go beyond that is pretty cruel and despicable (as 15-year old girls tend to be). Maybe @18 has the right idea…a series of long talks about how you fucked up, but your daughter fucked up just as hard. Chats that uncomfortable are sure to be punishment enough for both of you.

47. I had a thing written, but #25 ForkyMcSpoon already said exactly what I was going to way better than I ever could.

48. In keeping with Dan’s request to leave some things out of it and focus on the question of punishment for the girl: Don’t punish her. Ever. Don’t punish kids. Don’t punish adults. Consequence yes. Punishment (a subset of “consequence”) is torture and accomplishes nothing but the degradation of you and your victim.

    My mother once set me on fire. And then she had me watch while she did my little brother. To this day I have absolutely no recollection of what the crime was. Just the punishment. It’s all the same to me. You can say “she went too far” but really how is it not all part of the same thing?

    Some people need help in order to behave themselves in society. Love and compassion and help. They don’t need to suffer.

    I am a parent. I have never punished my 12 year old son. He is among the best behaved people you will ever meet. There are other ways to have a positive influence on your kids. Maybe if you had done that from the start you wouldn’t have a daughter capable of such things.

49. Do you think your failure as a parent (since you should have been paying more attention to your kid, so she wouldn’t have turned out to be a POS) has anything to do with why she forwarded the photos?

    In other words, while you were fucking around because of your higher sex drive, you should have been teaching your kid morality and ‘how things stay on the internet forever’.

    Ground her, but not for a year. Send her to her grandparents for half the summer (with a dumb phone and no internet access, since grandma won’t be able to supervise her using it), and make her do community service.

50. Get a divorce, tell her it’s all her fault.

51. @43 – Raping her would have been “not much” worse than allowing her to stumble on evidence of infidelity? Really? I take it you’ve never been raped.

52. OK, there’s a couple things to think about here. What purpose do you want the punishment to serve? Is the idea to teach her that what she did has consequences, and some of them are bad? Or are you just looking for revenge?

    As to teaching her that actions have consequences, I would say the punishment is not really for you to decide at this point, as you yourself are learning about consequences. In her mother’s place, I would be inclined to put a very serious kibosh on the girl’s access to the Internet, social media, texting, etc., until she better understands the consequences of sharing this kind of information.

    If you just want revenge, you’re an asshole, and sorry, you don’t get revenge. You’ve ruined your relationship with your family because you’re too much of a CPOS to have a frank discussion with your wife about your sexual needs and about opening up your marriage, and because you’re too damn dumb to secure your computer. Same to your girlfriend, although why her children and parents needed to be traumatized in such a manner is beyond me. It’s that bit of cruelty that makes me inclined toward recommending that your daughter be gotten into counseling. Showing that little empathy for ruining other people’s lives – that would be a psychological red flag to me.

    You’re an idiot. And your daughter is spiteful and cruel. All this could have been avoided so easily. *sigh*

53. I’m inclined to think that counseling would be helpful for the entire family. And, that how to respond to the abusive use of technology may require a period of offline, and community service may be helpful. Still, it needs to come from mom. FUBAR Dad has eroded his relationship with his daughter too badly to present himself as a disciplinarian at the moment. FUBAR Dad needs to accept responsiblity for his actions and start apologizing. Just my quick $0.02.

54. Wow, the punishment he wishes to impose is crazy harsh. GO LIVE WITH HER GRANDMOTHER??? That is about his anger at having been exposed, not his wish to correct her behavior.
    Dude, unless you want to lose your daughter entirely, get the fuck out of the way. You an apology to her WAY more than she does to you.

55. I think everyone here is being too hard on FUBARD, he had the kind of discreet affair that Dan and most of SLOG advocate in his situation (three years without anyone finding out is definitely discreet ).

    I don’t think the daughter should be given a concrete punishment by FUBARD, but she needs to be reprimanded in some way. He should sit down with her and say something to the effect of:

    “I know I’ve forfeited the moral high-ground here, I lied to our family and I understand that you feel betrayed. That said, I am still your farther and it’s still my job to make sure you grow up into a decent human being. What you did was excessively cruel and horrifyingly mean-spirited. Maybe that says something about how I’ve raised you; I’m incredibly disappointed that I raised a daughter who would do such a thing instead of confronting me or your mother discreetly. I’m still the bad guy here; maybe one day you’ll understand why I did what I did – even if it wasn’t right – but you need to understand *today* that what you did was wrong.”

56. And Mischa, I take it you’ve never had your life torn apart by a parent’s affair. And yes, I’ve been sexually assaulted, and have a sister who’s been molested. I know quite a bit about what asshole adults can do to teenagers’ lives. I am trying to tell you: this trauma is extremely real. Don’t discount what that girl is going through, no matter how “modern” kids are today. Fubar needs to step up in a way he is clearly not prepared to do. No excuses, no denials. At least vis a vis him and the daughter. If he wants to be her father, that is.

57. So much for sparing the lectures on how you got what you deserved etc. etc. eh?

    15 or not, I find her utter lack of empathy disturbing. She deliberately set out to hurt not only you and the woman (understandable) but other children and generally wreak as much havoc as possible. You did fuck up, big time. You may even deserve most of what’s coming to you (I would personally need more details to know), but your daughter lashed out and hurt a whole host of people with absolutely no regard for the innoccent bystanders. That is not OK:

    However I don’t see punishing her as being workable. Punishment? Well, she found out daddy’s a cheater and her family may be about to break apart forever. Seems like quite a lot of punishment already. I would say that she needs therapy, both to normalize possible future relationships with men and also for a professional to address any destructive tendencies she may have.

58. I’d say give the daughter a raise on her an allowance and thank the lucky stars your wife is still talking to you at all. Then move out if that’s your mutual decision.

59. I also think the daughter posted to the girlfriend’s family because she is a “close family friend.” I read that to mean “our kids have all grown up together.” So this isn’t “sharing” widely, this is sending it to the other aggreived parties. Possibly someone as close as her own siblings. Again, not the best judgment, but it’s the parents’ carelessness that made it happen, not the predictable actions of a 15 year old girl.

60. In addition to your affair and the trauma of discovering it, having a father who is even remotely concerned about punishment at this juncture should be punishment enough for a lifetime. I cannot believe you actually wrote into SL asking about punishment versus, I dunno, how you can best proceed to not further traumatize your daughter and family, where to get the help you and your family need right now, etc.

    I’m sure that your obvious and misguided sense of self-righteousness will cause you to disregard comments of this ilk. For your family’s sake, I do hope that you can take a step back and recognize how completed deluded and selfish your behavior- from your affair to your reaction upon being caught- really is.

61. Haven’t read the other comments yet…

    I don’t think she should be punished. She’s already furious with you, and trying to punish her at this point will pretty much guarantee that she won’t talk to you again until she’s at least 30.

    The poor thing was in shock, furious and devastated, and reacted in the heat of the moment. Yes it was a nasty, juvenile way to handle it, but what do you expect from a 15 year old?

    Even if you do have good reasons for cheating, no teenager is going to be mature enough to understand the subtleties of that moral debate. As far as she’s concerned, cheating is 100% wrong, and you’ve betrayed her mother.

    I’m not condoning her behaviour, but I don’t see how punishing her could do anything but devastate your relationship with her even further. The aftermath will certainly be more than enough “punishment”.

    The best thing you can do now is focus on how you’re going to salvage your relationship with her.

62. Stick to the question at hand. Kid’s a little bitch. Total (socio|psycho)path. Someone did a shitty job raising her.

63. You cheated. If I were your 15-year-old daughter, while I wouldn’t send the pictures to mutual friends or other people’s children, I would absolutely send them to my mother, and to the husband of the woman you were cheating with.

    Adults may have a nuanced understanding of the morality of cheating, just as we may have a nuanced understanding of the morality of lying, etc.

    Children, on the other hand, haven’t learned all of that nuance yet, and are absolutely justified in believing that a parent who is cheating on and lying to their mother or father deserves to be exposed.

    You’re not in a position to legitimately try to talk about morality with your daughter, or impose punishment on her. In her eyes, you have lost all moral authority, and someone who attempts to punish someone without the authority to do so is a bully.

    Your wife should be the one to handle this, and hopefully explain to your daughter that while she was not wrong in telling her mother that her father was cheating, the way in which she handled it has caused a lot of innocent people (her mother, your cheating partner’s husband, the children on both sides and the mutual friends) extra pain in what would already have been a painful revelation.

64. “[My wife] also thinks it’s my fault for being so careless with my information and for exposing our daughter to such ‘smut.'” FUBAR’s wife isn’t wrong. No where in that letter did he take responsibility for his own actions or show signs of changing his behavior beyond logging out of this email next time. If his wife thinks a punishment for the daughter is in order then he needs to let her handle it. His only job now is owning his actions, seeking family counseling, and probably not calling the other woman his girlfriend anymore.

65. @38, saying that this affair didn’t hurt anyone until its discovery is like saying jumping off a building doesn’t hurt anyone until they hit the ground. This guys wife is probably DESTROYED by this, may never trust a man again, etc. Oh, but he had to get fucking laid, so it’s ok. I’m not saying that all people have to be monogamous. I would not be a Dan Savage reader if I believed that. However, this guy is a fucking scumbag who has destroyed his family and deserves all the shit in the world that is coming to him.

    You’re right, he’s not as bad as Dick Cheney, but that’s not exactly saying a lot.

66. Easy. Have your wife thank your daughter for bringing the affair to her attention, but then punish her for the utter violation visited upon your mistress’s children and mutual friends. At no point should she think she’s being punished for unearthing your (poorly-hidden) secret.

67. I have been having an affair with a close family friend for three years.

    No one’s going to comment on this? The motherfucker cheated with a close family friend, the very definition of shitting where you eat. The only thing worse would’ve been fucking an in law. Had he done the (slightly) less shitty and the (slightly) more responsible thing, he would have found a woman completely removed from his personal life to get his needs met. Had that happened, odds are the daughter would have had less opportunity and motivation to share those pics with all and sundry.

    Recently, my “girlfriend” went on vacation with her family. We had been exchanging racy Gmail chats and some rated-R pictures while she was away.

    The woman couldn’t separate herself from her boyfriend for one fucking family vacation? Yeah, that’s so not an emotional affair.

68. He didn’t have the “respect for the basic humanity of others” to end his marriage before taking up with someone else, but he expects that consideration from a traumatized child? Grow up, scumbag, and own what you did.

69. @56 FUBARD- this is EXACTLY what ou need to day. Completely true and to the point. Fantastic advice @56

70. Don’t look for ‘punishment’, consider ‘teaching’ instead. This is a great time for her to learn how thoughtless actions can damage lives (your actions and hers). Don’t place the blame on her. What she did was terrible, but her frontal lobe is not fully developed and the decision-making processes aren’t functioning completely yet, especially when affected by anger.

    So teach her about computer etiquette: explain about how impersonating someone else is very, very, wrong; explain to her how to go directly to someone with whom you have a problem, instead of allowing your anger to ruin someone else’s (the girlfriend’s) life (not yours, since this is a standard consequence for cheating (you are accountable to your family, but the girlfriend isn’t)).

    She needs to apologize to the children and parents she sent the pictures to; it’s one thing to expose an affair, it’s quite another to humiliate someone and cause trauma to their family members.

    But before that, you need to apologize to her – big time. Not for the affair, but for leaving your emails accessible to her and making her a witness to those pictures and for putting her such a terrible position that she would feel justified in lashing out as she did.

71. Your daughter did something shitty, but she did it as a traumatized teenager reacting to something she should never have had to be involved in. It’s not like it’s hard to understand and I really don’t think I would have done any different in the same circumstances when I was 15.

    What you owe your daughter is a frank, honest talk, in which you offer both an explanation of the consequences of her decision and a sincere apology for everything you did, and, when she’s ready for it, therapy so that one day she’ll be able to trust men. And don’t you DARE fuck up the therapy by framing it as punishment, either; you make damn sure she knows that you’re doing it for her to make up for your mistakes. The parental model of betrayal you were careless enough to foist off on her will fuck her up for life if you don’t handle it well.

    If you treat your daughter well and do your best to make this right, one day she’ll understand that her overreaction was hurtful and not the best way to react to the situation. You cannot – nor do you have any right to – teach her that lesson at this time, however. She’s a teenager and not ready to learn it, and you don’t have the authority to instruct her even if you had the ability.

    If you can’t swallow all that and act like a man, at least have the decency to walk away and get out of her life. She’s better off with child support than with you taking out your guilt and resentment on her.

72. The purpose of punishment is to teach her a lesson, right? I think she got the lesson. I think cutting internet and smart phones makes lots of sense for the whole family just to help all get your lives back in order. What you need to do is to be an example and FORGIVE your daughter. For yourself and your daughter. You both saw the worst aspect of your personalities.

    What she did sucks. She did it and she can’t take it back. I hope you want a relationship with her the rest of your life. Then reach out to her and help rebuild the family relationship. You might actually provide her with a a great example of fucking up (you) and fixing it (you).

73. Not a parent, but FWIW, I have a hard time blaming a 15 year old girl for impulsively lashing out at her father and her father’s girlfriend upon discovering their affair. Yeah, she did a terrible thing, but does anyone seriously think grounding her (or whatever) is actually going to be the thing that drives that message home?

    She’s going to be living in the wake of this, just like the LR will, for a long damn time. And both of them should. Punishment seems redundant and pointless, and forgiveness premature. Live with it. Try to learn from it.

    And sorry, but…explicit chatting online with your illicit partner on a computer you share with your family is NOT being discreet…

74. He cheats on his wife with a “close family friend,” through utter stupidity allows it to be discovered, and destroys two families. His 15 year old daughter reacts like a 15 year old girl and not like a 38 year old who’s had a few years of therapy and read the oeuvre on nuanced understanding relationships (shocker). His response is that SHE should lose HER HOME, at least for the summers, HER friends, and HER entire social life/fun outlet (grounding) for a YEAR. How can anyone defend him as anything other than what he is — a mental/emotional child abuse perpetrator at BEST? HE fucks up so SHE should lose everything because she reacted like a 15 year old girl experiencing the worst trauma of her life? And I’m another sexual assault survivor saying that what she’s experienced, while not as bad as being raped, is in the ballpark. She could likely get over rape more easily. No one punishes you for being angry at your rapist, or confronting him the best way you know how. Certainly you don’t risk losing a YEAR of your childhood to grounding as well as your HOME and your BEST FRIEND for speaking up.

75. (you are accountable to your family, but the girlfriend isn’t)

    I normally agree with this. The cheater is responsible to the person he/she made a commitment to, but, in this case, the girlfriend is a close family friend, meaning that she’s been fucking over her friends for THREE years. She doesn’t get a pass.

76. I agree with the people saying it isn’t the father’s place to punish. That doesn’t mean that what the daughter did was okay, or that the father shouldn’t attempt to be a father to his daughter ever again. It means that he shouldn’t presume the role of adjudicator NOW. I would also agree that the father should get out ASAP for the time being, especially if that’s what Mom wants.

    Mom, in order to be a responsible parent, shouldn’t condone what her daughter did and should explain what privacy means and the inherent fucked-upedness of sending nude photos of a woman to her own children. I’m not sure what punishment would be appropriate for that since there really isn’t any way to make it up to the “girlfriend’s” children, but perhaps Mom and the mother of Daughter’s friend should take it upon themselves to have a sit-down chat about relationships and respect with the two girls.

77. FUBAR was having what he knew to be a highly sensitive, very private affair, one that could devastate two families, and – oops! – accidentally left his Gmail account open. The thing that bugs me is that from there he immediately launches into how wicked, wrong and all-around bad his 15 year old daughter behaved. Not a single blip on his personal responsibility screen.

    What she did was sad, and doesn’t speak well for her – or her upbringing. But that it was able to happen at all is squarely FUBAR’s fault, both for the original affair and for *leaving it out there for her to find*. She’s 15, and still fully entitled to her lack of judgment. That’s why they can’t vote, or drink, or enlist, right.
    Dad is completely without any such excuse, and that he’s all focused on what a mess *she* created just doubles up his douchery.

78. It’s hard to be too sympathetic with anyone here. He’s a complete shit, and so is the daughter. A total clusterfuck.

79. Your daughter is a fucking bitch who clearly has not empathy for others.

    Make her apologize (sincerely and in person) to the children, parents and mutual friends. This should include a description of what she should have done when she discovered the first emails. She should have told her mother (end of story), not dug more and certainly not sent pictures to innocent parties that would only be hurt by her actions.

    I don’t understand the comments that she should not be punished because now her life is gonna be all messed up. What about what SHE did to those kids? Or the woman’s parents?
    It’s one thing to know your mom/child had an affair, it’s far different to see explicit pictures.

80. I think that there does have to be a discussion about her behaviour – a long one – with her mother. The focus needs to be on how she hurt innocent people (the other woman’s kids, husband, parents) and how she probably humiliated her mother as well – someone she probably saw herself as acting for. She, in that moment, clearly had a problem seeing the woman’s children, husband, and parents as anything but an extension of the woman herself. This is an empathy problem – but teenagers aren’t known for their far-ranging empathy. I think the mother is right that community service should probably be the punishment, as an empathy building exercise. But it should follow long discussions with her mother, and be handed out by her mother. The father’s credibility is totally shot.

    For the record – how can anyone (up thread) not think that his affair was wrong? I’m totally cool with negotiated openness in a relationship. I am on board with Dan giving the go-ahead to the people in sexless marriages (when they are really sexless). But I don’t see how having a lower sex drive than your spouse entitles you to seek sex outside the marriage, when you know the other person thinks it’s monogamous. I think Dan really over-estimates the “devastation” of divorce. My father left my mother, for a man, and I’m okay. If, however, my father had stayed with my mother and lied to her about fucking other men on the side, I would have two HIV positive parents instead of one, and absolutely NO faith in men to uphold the promises they made to their wives. (The phrasing here should not indicate that I did not find my father’s diagnosis devastating. I did. He’s doing really well now, all things considered.) But my father is a good man, who didn’t let fear stop him from having a tough conversation. My mother never said a word against him and my siblings and I were raised by two loving parents who lived apart.

    We never really know when the next big STI thing is going to happen, and if people can’t trust that the people they love the most will tell them the truth about what they are exposing them to, people can’t trust anything. You might not believe in monogamy – that is FINE! – but don’t be with someone who does and then think you have the right to lie to them. You don’t.

81. Who clearly has no empathy

82. Many parents only stay together until the kids are old enough to leave home. So, your daughter just fucked herself and everyone else. Punishment? She just needs to learn the consequences of her actions and the complexities of being an adult. That will take years, but shit, yeah, its her fault for fucking w your private affairs and your fault for not logging out of gmail.

83. I’d say have her MOTHER cut off internet access and cell phone use for, say a few weeks as discipline for going through someone’s personal account, impersonating someone, and distributing private files.

    I agree that any discipline the letter writer would devise would have a rotten stench of revenge to it.

84. I have to disagree with most of the folks on here.

    Your daughter’s behavior was unacceptable, but not for the reasons you’re citing. As much as you have “suffered,” by publicizing your indiscretions to such a wide circle (including other children) your daughter has effectively taken what should have been a private concern between the four adults and made it into at the minimum a family scandal; it is her mother she hurt most by her actions, not you.

    Your daughter needs to understand that turning her mother’s life into something akin to Reality TV Drama / an episode of Jerry Springer is not proper behavior. She needs to learn that when you suddenly come across something that will destroy someone close to them the responsible thing to do it approach those hurt by it and let them decide how to handle it best for them — not go putting it online for all and sundry.

    Where I do agree with the crowd is that the discipline should be coming from her mother. Similarly, your wife should be made aware that one of the unforeseen consequences of her daughter’s actions is that now pretty much everyone who reads Savage Love and/or Slog is now aware of the pain that was caused to her mother.

    You made no attempt to obfuscate your situation from anyone familiar with it, which means, FUBAR, that you need to *not* keep another secret but tell your wife about your letter to Mr. Savage, point her to this thread, and apologize to your wife (again) for violating her trust before your daughter or one of her friends stumbles onto Slog and finds out about it the hard way…again.

85. I’m with @56, and in addition: suggest the daughter see a counselor. Just finding dirty pictures of my dad would be traumatizing enough; having the rest of it blow up this way would ruin my year. I think the daughter sounds like a bitch but punishing her won’t fix her. The girl needs someone to talk to, and that person will help her see that her reaction was unwarranted and mean-spirited.

86. What a self absorbed idiot.

    He and his wife are still parents, and his immaturity and moral lapses do not absolve him of that responsibility. That being said, leave it up to the wife for any discipline issues. In reality, his daughter did him a favor. Looks like he has been scared straight.

    He needs to beg some forgiveness from his wife. And accept the possible divorce if she doesn’t forgive him.

    He needs to stop seeing (completely) the girlfriend and her family. That relationship is absolutely over.

87. I also found evidence of my dad’s affairs when I was 14, so I get that this can be traumatizing. Especially if you raised your daughter to be judgmental and self-righteous (in other words, if you raised her with any kind of fundamentalist religion, like I was) a well of anger can overtake her. I hated my father for years.

    But I got over it. If anything, I learned a good lesson about humanity and humility. I learned my parents were human. I also learned that the situation was far more complex then I had understood at 14.

    What I never did was try and make others miserable as well. I never would have tried to hurt innocents, no matter how much I was in pain myself. Sending these photos to your gf’s kids was a truly ugly, hurtful, almost sociopathic act. Did she really want them to suffer like she was suffering? Because that’s just fucked up.

    As far as punishment goes, forget about it. Your daughter either has a moral sense, and will one day be deeply embarrassed for her actions (I’m embarrassed for some of the things I did to my dad in my anger, including once punching him in the face) or she really doesn’t have much of a moral sense and is too self-centered to realize what she did. But that process will take time, and in the blender of adolescent emotions, punishing her now will me the equivalent of hitting the puree button.

    Tell your daughter you love her, you will be there for her if she wants to talk, and then leave her the hell alone. She doesn’t want to see you now. I tore up the letter my father wrote trying to explain himself, without ever reading it. I didn’t want to hear his excuses. She doesn’t either. When the bones knit, hopefully the skeleton of your relationship will be intact, and you will once more be able to talk. But for god’s sake, give her her space.

    As to all the victim fetishists on this site who talk about how the girl will never be the same, never trust men, etc, get real. You do get over things. I certainly did. We’re about 51% biology and 49% lessons learned, people. If this girl can’t sort her shit and separate other men from her father, she was screwed long before she saw those pix. Stop making excuses for those who wish nothing more then to wallow in their past as an excuse for their fucked up lives. You pick yourself up of the mat and take responsibility for your own life. No one else is to blame, in the end.

88. I’m probably going to need to see the photos before I can make an honest judgment on this issue.

89. Why do so many people consider this girl so traumatized? Shocked maybe, but finding out your dad is messing around isn’t a new or particularly horrible experience. Been there, done that, as many of you probably have too. How did you react? I kept my mouth shut, because it was none of my business. FUBARD’s daughter reacted as maliciously as possible with the information the snooped to obtain. She emailed the girlfriend’s kids, parents, and the families’ mutual friends, not just with the information about the affair, but the all-too-explicit photos. Her goal was clearly maximum damage, embarrassment, and cruelty to everyone associated with either family. That girl needs therapy, and maybe a summer at the grandparents’ house would be a good change of scenery.

90. You cyber-sexed on the family computer? YOU DUN GOOFED!

    You only have yourself to blame. And the fact that you’re trying to punish your daughter for your mistake makes me think maybe your wife didn’t want to have sex with you because you’re an asshole.

91. Well, 15 is a weird age…you’re old enough to know right from wrong but not old enough to filter your actions because you simply don’t have enough life experience to understand repercussions. Punishment doesn’t seem fitting for the circumstances. Therapy does. Echoing what a lot of other people have said: you just totally obliterated her “vision” of what her life was, who her father was, etc. at a critical age where she is forming her identity as a woman. I think most of us have our parents on pedestal until a certain point (assuming you were raised in a relatively stable, loving environment) and most of us get to the point where we realize our parents aren’t perfect and are fallible people just like everyone else. You hope it doesn’t happen at 15 and you most certainly hope it doesn’t happen in the way it did for her. You sound like a pretty immature guy to me just based off the flippant/cavalier way you described your affair, so I’m wondering how someone like that expects their daughter to behave as an adult when they aren’t even one themselves. You should probably go put yourself in the corner instead.

92. I have to agree with comment #8. In an ideal world, parents protect their children from horrific natural consequences and “punishments” are a lesser, artificial consequence used to guide children where natural consequences are too harsh to let come to pass. In this case, FUBAR Dad can’t protect his daughter from the horrific natural consequences of her actions. There is no point to punishment – the only thing they can do is hope to help her learn from it.

93. Having a 15-year-old girl in the not too distant past, I will say, the way she behaved isn’t that unlikely, and certainly isn’t socio-psycho-pathic. She behaved like a teenager. She is likely full of convictions (half-baked or not), full of ego, with little empathy towards those who cross the lines of her convictions. It’s like Cather In The Rye, adults are phonies and hypocrites, they should be called out for breaking the moral codes in society that they have set out. Now, from where I am now, it is a completely malicious act, but she’s 15, and I could have told you how that was going to go down. She sent it to the people she sent it too possibly to receive validation that her dad was being a lying bastard.
    That said, let mom punish her how she sees fit, agreeing with others, and judging from your letter, you have no real interest in punishing her for snooping, so much as punishing her for exposing you, which makes a big difference.
    Also, as someone said earlier, leaving a record of such sensitive information on a computer easily accessed by ANYONE else is kind of saying that you don’t really care about being caught. You slipped, and stopped being careful, either because you thought you never would get caught, or you didn’t care if you did. Maybe you thought your wife would find it, I’m pretty sure you thought it wouldn’t happen like this, but it did, so now you actually have to deal with the consequences.

94. This dude is just lucky that his daughter wasn’t bright enough to make a backup of everything and blackmail him for all his worth. It seems that the cruel apple does not fall too far from the responsibility-dodging asshole of a tree… what she and her friend did was heartless, but as a result of a traumatic experience. Maybe if she had been raised by somebody who wasn’t a total douchebag in denial, she’d have had a better impulse (talking directly with her mother and FUBAR, avoiding collateral damage).

    Anyhoodle, you all need therapy. Lots of it. And FUBAR should probably take some serious groveling/responsibility acceptance lessons and apply the learnings to each person affected by his stupidity, including his daughter. Sure, groveling may feed her short-term teenage entitlement issues, but her long-term trust in men and family might have a shot at repair.

95. @88

    Most people get over traumas like this without much help. The ones who don’t end up adults with no confidence and no ability to form trusting, supportive relationships. Being smug about “victim fetishists” won’t change the reality of that, and assuring yourself that they deserve to suffer, and to destabilize other people’s lives, makes you an ignorant prick, not the gruff father figure you seem to fancy yourself. Needing a hand “up off the mat” makes people human, and looking down on them for needing that hand makes you… less.

96. Wow, what a piece of work FUBAR Dad is. Take it from an adult child who had to learn something similar about my dad (by hearing them having sex)–YOU JUST FUCKED UP HER LIFE. You are at fault. You just provided her with the most traumatic incident of her childhood. And you want to punish her???? Guess what–having you as a father is punishment enough.

    I only wish I’d had the balls to out my hypocrite dad the way she did.

97. @70 (Re@56) Thanks, I just thought it was important that they both take responsibility for their own individual actions. This would be the only way to get through to a kid who is (justifiably) out-of-their-mind furious with you while still admitting your own guilt

98. At the age of 15, I was extremely mature, intellectually and emotionally. I was in my senior year of high school, and was highly regarded by people of all ages as an easygoing, sensible, rational, young woman. Adults were particularly impressed with how empathetic and kind I was. I never, ever got in trouble for anything. I was on the debate team and enjoyed discussing moral issues. Teachers and camp counselors always paired me up with the emotionally delayed kid, or the physically disabled kid, or the kid who didn’t bathe, because they knew I would be friendly and work well with them.

    I loved my father very, very much and respected him a great deal. I loved my mom too, but I knew that she was a very difficult woman to get along with. I suspected that she rejected him a lot and they barely had a sex life due to her many physical and mental illnesses (this was confirmed years later by my mom).

    Despite all of this, I STILL might have behaved just like this child if this had happened to me. I would have felt hurt and angry, and would have immediately felt that everyone needed to know what was going on. At that age, you don’t see shades of gray when it comes to your family and friends. You just see black and white, fair and unfair, betrayal and loyalty. If my dad had cheated, I wouldn’t have dispassionately thought, “Well, this is between him and my mom, and the other woman and her husband.” I would have felt very personally betrayed, and felt that these two cheating awful people were betraying both of our families. Although my parents were pretty liberal and sex-positive, it would have NEVER occurred to me that they might be having an open relationship.

    Fifteen-year olds don’t do discretion or subtlety. I guarantee you she didn’t think, “Maybe I shouldn’t send these pics to the other kids because it will hurt them.” She thought, “Wow, my dad and this woman have been sneaking around behind our families’ backs – the other kids deserve to know what their mom has been doing to them!”

    My point is, the MOM should talk to the girl, possibly somtime in the future, about how she might have handled it more discreetly, and ask her how she thought the other kids might have felt in seeing those pics. But punish her? That is about the STUPIDEST thing the father could do. He’s already caused serious damage to his daughter’s development and ability to have good relationships with men – no way should he compound it by punishing her because he got caught (and that’s exactly what any 15-year old would feel was going on).

    If he punishes her, she may even see it as him defending his girlfriend’s honor without regard for his daughter’s feelings – again choosing his mistress over his family.

    If he wants to eventually heal this rift he’s caused with his daughter, he needs to just apologize over and over to her right now. Not a word about her actions from him.

99. @88, I totally agree with you . . . except, the girl isn’t borderline sociopathic. She’s responding quite in line with a child without a fully developed pre-frontal coretex. You may not have had the impusle to do as she did, but you also didn’t have the instant access to the technology that she did. Maybe, given the texting/emailing/messaging world, you would have reacted just as she did. Kids don’t have the brakes on their impulse control at 15. Just a biological fact, the same as it’s a biological fact that dad has his need for sex. Here’s a decent fact sheet on teen brain development: http://bit.ly/emrLGV.

    The question FUBAR asked was so self-absorbed and in denial about his responsibility to his daughter that I feel like he needs to hear in no uncertain terms that he should not punish her. He should stop any fantasies about this being her fault and gather the strength to accept his full responsibility to everyone who has been harmed.

    You are absolutely right about the girl growing older and more mature – in time. Hopefully they can have a relationship at some point.

100. Make the daughter write letters of apology to everybody she sent the photos to. Point out to her that she has brought shame upon two families that will not soon be forgotten. Then tell her that having to live with her own conscience is the balance of her punishment.

101. how about you pay for her therapy?

     don’t lash out at your daughter because you a douche and you suck at cheating.

     when I was in my early 20s, my dad called me and told me that he had been cheating on my mom for a year and change, and they were divorcing, and he was going to go see the new woman in a few days.

     I was really upset, and I had some really crazy ideas. thankfully I was old enough to filter them.

     your daughter is 15 and hasn’t developed those filters yet. don’t punish her for that, otherwise you will go down as being the worst dad in the world, two times over.

102. Some of you obviously don’t understand teenagers. Their brains are still developing and they are just beginning to develop a social conscience. They have a very black and white sense of morality. They are not adults, and should not be expected to react as adults. Yes, her actions made this way more painful for more people than it needed to be, but she’s a child and her father and close family “friend” are adults with fully developed brains. They bear the responsibility for sending naked pictures on family computers and being cheating, dishonest pieces of shit. They need to bear the responsibility for this disaster. The teenager will learn from time and the natural consequences of her actions that there are better ways to handle betrayal.

103. I’m thinking a key force here is the “best friend” – knowing teenage girls, I would bet a million dollars that the best friend was the driving force behind the very movie-like revenge plot.

104. I don’t either parent is in a great position for punishment. Both are very hurt by this whole thing. But that said if no punishment is given the daughter will think it is alright for her to invade people’s private lives. The punishment should be the harsh truth. I think they need counseling and while at counseling read a letter he wrote to his daughter with the counselor present. Explain that for years you have kept the marriage between her mother and yourself together by having this affair. Her mother’s happiness is ruined, your happiness is ruined, her happiness is ruin, an entire family happiness is ruined, all because she chose to act irresponsible and instead of talking to you. She needs to realize that her actions led to these consequences. Now the future is uncertain where you and your wife is concerned. Yes, she is young. But she is old enough to know better and will not learn other wise. If she doesn’t realize this now, she will realize it later. That potentially she was the catalysis for breaking up not only her family but others. Best to have the consoler present.

     You might want to enclose in the letter a printed out picture of one of those embarrassing moments all kids have in their lives. Say in order to teach her how it feels to have your entire life ruin that you could post this picture at her school. Then in the next sentence you say you could have done that but you won’t because you love her. That even though she hurt you deeply. That she hurt her mother deeply. That she hurt this woman, her entire family, and children deeply. Most of all hurting herself. That you couldn’t hurt her. You’re her father, where she cares about that or not. You still do. You will always love her, even when you are mad at her or disappointed in her when she does such despicable actions that your love for her will never change. That he forgives her for hurting him and those he cares about, because thats what fathers do. And he can only hope in the future that she can forgive him for his actions for hurting her and her mother. That was not his intention. Probably insert a few more sorries. Why? Because she is hurt just as much as all the people in this. She is embarrassed that her friend and probably half the school know her father cheated, she ruined an entire family, and potentially broke up their own family. She will undoubtedly be ridicule by one of her peers for this. In the end she will not come out of this at all unscathed.

105. i found evidence that my mom was cheating when i was around 13…it wasn’t a big surprise (because she often didn’t come home at night after work) but nobody in my family ever talked about anything difficult, so i kept my mouth shut too. years later, this was just one incident of many which made me finally realize that i can’t trust my mom. it’s a painful thing to know.

106. why do people assume the kid was “lashing out?” she probably just thought the others had a right to know what she had learned. teenager or adult, in instances when one finds out that they are one of many other people who are all being lied to, to a natural reaction is to tell the other people that are being lied to as well.

107. I don’t either parent is in a great position for punishment. Both are very hurt by this whole thing. But that said if no punishment is given the daughter will think it is alright for her to invade people’s private lives. The punishment should be the harsh truth. I think they need counseling and while at counseling read a letter he wrote to his daughter with the counselor present. Explain that for years you have kept the marriage between her mother and yourself together by having this affair. Her mother’s happiness is ruined, your happiness is ruined, her happiness is ruin, an entire family happiness is ruined, all because she chose to act irresponsible and instead of talking to you. She needs to realize that her actions led to these consequences. Now the future is uncertain where you and your wife is concerned. Yes, she is young. But she is old enough to know better and will not learn other wise. If she doesn’t realize this now, she will realize it later. That potentially she was the catalysis for breaking up not only her family but others. Best to have the consoler present.

     You might want to enclose in the letter a printed out picture of one of those embarrassing moments all kids have in their lives. Say in order to teach her how it feels to have your entire life ruin that you could post this picture at her school. Then in the next sentence you say you could have done that but you won’t because you love her. That even though she hurt you deeply. That she hurt her mother deeply. That she hurt this woman, her entire family, and children deeply. Most of all hurting herself. That you couldn’t hurt her. You’re her father, where she cares about that or not. You still do. You will always love her, even when you are mad at her or disappointed in her when she does such despicable actions that your love for her will never change. That he forgives her for hurting him and those he cares about, because thats what fathers do. And he can only hope in the future that she can forgive him for his actions for hurting her and her mother. That was not his intention. Probably insert a few more sorries. Why? Because she is hurt just as much as all the people in this. She is embarrassed that her friend and probably half the school know her father cheated, she ruined an entire family, and potentially broke up their own family. She will undoubtedly be ridicule by one of her peers for this. In the end she will not come out of this at all unscathed.

108. Your family’s about to fall apart over this? So is hers. And she’s still legally dependent. That’s more than enough punishment.

     Also, if this divorce does happen, remember that a judge is going to interpret the appropriateness of your punishment as part of his decisions on custody, child support, and general right to make parenting decisions. Judges are generally not known to be SL readers with an empathy for the “good cheater”, or his mistress and her family.

109. This idiotic man owes his daughter a huge apology. What she did was awful, thoughtless, a violation of privacy—everything he says it is. But she’s still a child with a developing brain and moral code and his hypocritical, cheating actions put everyone in this postion. He has wrecked his relationship with his daughter for at least 10 years; if I were him I’d bend over backwards to make it right, rather than freaking punish the girl.

110. Having an affair = wrong and hurtful. Providing evidence of said affair to those negatively impacted by it = disgusting cruelty, a violation of privacy and a flagrant lack of respect for the basic humanity of others.

     My advice? STFU, because your social and moral compass is completely fucked up.

111. As with all letters, we don’t know the whole story here. Maybe it was the best friend who wanted to impersonate FUBARD and the daughter went along with it. But what the daughter needs to know is those actions were wrong: impersonating someone, then violating the girlfriend’s privacy in a very terrible way, AND also traumatizing the gf’s kids, parents, etc. I can totally see that when she’s much older, and say she finds out her partner is cheating on her. She could easily do the same thing to the person that her partner is cheating with – email photos of that person to their school, employer, parents – and the damage to that person could be much worse if it gets that far. Did you hear about the 14-year old kid in Quebec who ratted out a secretary at his school because he saw her x-rated photos on a porn site? Now she’s been fired from her job. And for what? For doing something legal that had NO effect on her job? Christ.

     So yes, the daughter has to know the ramifications of her actions. Someone credible has to walk her through this and this person has to be someone she likes, trusts and respects. That’s certainly not FUBARD, and it won’t be mom either, not because mom is not someone the daughter doesn’t like, trust, respect, but because mom is too close to this situation as the one that’s been cheated on. She needs to talk to someone who was not involved with the situation, and who also understands it, like a family therapist.

     In the meantime FUBARD, you have a LOT of work to do. You obviously had problems in your marriage. What happened? Did you try to work them out? Why did you choose to cheat? Now’s the time to be really honest with yourself. Someday (hopefully in a few months), you should be able to talk to your daughter and show genuine remorse for what you did. Be a role model and show understanding of the ramifications of your actions – that’s what you want her to do, too, right? You all need therapy, individually, and as a family.

112. He should write his daughter a long letter, explaining all about his motivations for the affair and the heartbreaking repercussions her thoughtless exposure has caused for him, his girlfriend and her family, and their own family. The girl needs to learn that not all situations are black and white, and that doing the “right” thing might not always be the right thing.

113. Out of fidelity to the daughter’s victims, fubar should release nude pictures of himself.

114. Wow, I think the kid should apply for the FBI! Superb investigative work, kiddo! And it’s not like she broadcast the information to her friends, she forwarded it to the people she believed could remedy this terrible affair. I think it took guts to do something like that. I’m assuming the other kids were likely older teenagers as well. She just blew the whistle on something shitty happening. Obviously you don’t get to punish her for telling on you. That’s all she did. Really, you could own up to what you did, but that would take maturity, which you obviously don’t have.

115. When I was a little bit younger than your daughter, I found some letters to my mother from a man who wasn’t my father. I wasn’t snooping, I took the letters out of context, and I assumed the worst. I confronted my mother – days before the internet – and my mother fortunately had the wisdom to be honest enough to explain that the man was a good friend who had become infatuated with her. Rather than humiliate him, she kept the letters, which were very sweet, and didn’t tell my father so as not to alter his friendship with the guy. It haunts me to this day what might have happened if I’d shown my dad. Trust me, if she has any empathy at all, the fallout will be punishment enough. My mom didn’t punish me. She didn’t need to. I would say, yes, absolutely, her mother should be the only one doling out punishments at this moment. You aren’t in your right mind. You’re embarrassed. And even if she receives no punishment from your wife, I think in this case she needs no more punishment from you, because in her mind (and she’s kind of right), you’ve already punished her.

     The only thing you need to do right now is make her see that she cannot get rid of you. No matter what happened between you and her mother, she needs to know that you are hellbent on remaining her father, and until she’s 18, she can’t do a damn thing about it. Go to counseling together. Don’t absolve her of responsibility, but don’t absolve yourself, either. Own your part and hers, and insist until she’s 18 and can file a restraining order that you be a part of her life. When she’s old enough to think about it as an adult, she will remember that yes, you cheated on her mom, but you were there at every game, concert, play, milestone moment, you took her to dinner, you drove her to the mall, whatever, and she will see, no, you weren’t perfect, but you loved her. And that will help her forgive you.

     My dad was asked to move out when I was 25. He had done something I had thought unforgivable. I didn’t think I was going to forgive him. But he was relentless even at that age about being my father. He showed up at my door to take me to dinner – and he was gracious when I told him to fuck off. He drove an hour once at 10:00 on a Wednesday to meet me in a parking lot to talk for two hours. He called me every Wednesday morning to remind me we had a counseling appointment that afternoon and asked if I needed a ride half an hour out of the way. My dad isn’t perfect. But my God that man loves me. And eventually that became enough, and I now have a really solid relationship with him.

     Remember that she did a shitty thing. But you did too. And remember that you love her, because she needs your love and forgiveness, not your punishment. You’ve punished each other enough.

116. The daughter emailed naked photos of someone around without their consent, and acquired them under false identity. As angry and hurt as she is, that seriously violates ethics and she needs to be taught whats wrong with that. It may even be sexual harassment. I don’t think her father has any standing to be the one to punish her, but perhaps the other woman calling the cops and filing a complaint would be a reasonable punishment. It’ll probably turn into something like community service, like the wife wants, since she’s a minor.

117. Punishment?? Is this guy kidding? He completely shat all over his daughter by humiliating her in this way. She doesn’t deserved to be punished. She deserves an apology and an explanation.

118. The whole Internet aspect of the affair (chat, pix, etc.) tells us how little of a brain FUBAR dad has.

     His shifting the blame to his daughter, whose actions are very much in line with what we can expect of a teenager confronted with one of her parent’s hypocrisy, shows us how little valour he has.

     And he wants an authorization for punishing her? Hey, FUBAR dad, she’s got you for a father, isn’t that enough?

119. Since Dan asked…

     The letter writer is an asshole from hell, his daughter’s a fuckin’ hero. He should shut up and start being a husband and father again so he won’t have to “punish” his daughter for fixing his shitty, shitty behavior in the first place.

120. “My girlfriend is humiliated, our spouses are devastated.” These are not your daughter’s fault, but yours. Before even thinking about a punishment, you must take responsibility. Morally, you are like a murderer trying to explain why robbing is wrong.
     Why are you so sure she deserve to be punished?
     – she found your lies. As any son or daughter, and especially as a teenager, she felt betrayed as well. But this betrayal was also on your girlfriend’s family. Even worse, apparently she know them. And it was on internet. All that plus anger, that really is not shocking she shared the information. You let her stumble on it: you don’t have a right to be be angry because she didn’t kept it a secret. Secrets can destroy families.
     – She is the trigger, even though not responsible, for two exploding families, including her own. The obvious consequences of her actions makes punishment useless.

     To ease the angry party of your mind, think about the guilt she has or eventually have. And now, try to make the situation better. Apology. Then send her away from you and your spouse: to her grand parents, family… That way you can all cool down, and she can get a chance to speak with someone else.

121. Leave any punishment to Mom – Dad’s lost any credibility in this matter. Any punishment he dishes out will look like revenge-taking, and it may in fact be just that to some extent.

     In addition to @117’s valid points …
     I think it’s almost impossible for any 15 year old to understand how cruel this was, but she needs to be made to understand that the way this was handled hurt a lot of innocent parties unnecessarily (i.e. FUBAR’s wife, the girlfriend’s husband, children, parents …)

     FUBAR’s wife & the girlfriend’s husband might have needed to see those naked photos, but nobody else did.

122. I only read about halfway down these comments, but from most of what I read Slog commenters are positively dripping with self-righteousness unbecoming serious adults. Is everyone on this site a 15 year-old girl who just discovered her dad’s affair? Cut the guy a fucking break. He and his girlfriend didn’t destroy two families, his cruel (seemingly barely human) daughter did. Yes he got careless, and that was his fault and he bares responsibility for it. But the person who blew everything up was the daughter. Community work? I’d send the little tart to boot camp.

123. When I found out my dad was having an affair at 21 from text messages on his phone, I was on a family vacation. Everything was right in my little world. And then I was just devastated.

     I cried, I thought about calling her, I obsessively checked his phone and read all of their text messages until the end of the week. Was that wrong? Of course.

     I kept it to myself for a year before confronting him. He denied it. Two years after that he left his Gmail open and my mom found and read all of their emails. They’re divorcing now.

     It has taken 5 years to come to terms with this, and I’m an adult. I hate to think what I would have done if a) I knew the woman personally b) there were pictures and c) I was 15.

     Your daughter is suffering now, she will continue to suffer for a long time, and until you take responsibility for your actions you two will never repair your relationship.

124. I’m not reading the comments before I respond, so I apologize if I repeat anything anyone has said. You sir, are a douche. A royal fucking douche. One who displaces his guilt at his own fucked-up behavior onto his child. Grow the fuck up.

     No, your daughter should not be punished. Due to the secrecy of your affair and the bombshell it has caused, you no doubt have raised her to believe firmly in monogamy and that infidelity is a serious sin. Well, reap what ye have sown, dickwad. Your carelessness and utter failure at honesty have brought her world crashing down around her ears – at least as far as her teenaged mind conceives it. Her own father is cheating on her mother and leaving proof of it right in front of her. DO YOU HAVE ANY IDEA HOW AWFUL THAT WAS FOR HER? So she did what any kid would do in that utterly unbelievable situation – she lashed out. She’ll live with the consequences of what she did and the consequences of your slimy behavior for the rest of her life. You do not get to inflict further punishment on her just because you don’t like the fact that your chickens came home to roost. You knew discovery was a possibility – you just didn’t expect it to be this humiliating. The hysterical part of this is that you appear to expect your adolescent daughter to behave with more maturity and responsibility than you have displayed. Not bloodly likely. Well, suck it up and be a dad, not the narcissistic shithead you have proven to be so far. Your child needs to be embraced right now, not shunted to the edge of your world while you lick your self-inflicted wounds.

     Affairs happen. I understand that, and it doesn’t get me all that worked up. I don’t even consider infidelity a dealbreaker. However, as an adult, your first priority is to your child. And as an adult, you own your mistakes. You don’t blame a child for the consequences of your ill-considered actions – especially when that child is traumatized, hurt, betrayed and terrified that the world as she knows it is ending.

125. Your daughter should be rewarded for exposing you for the self intitled scum bag you are.

126. And I thought we had the Greatest Assholes a couple of weeks back with the woman with a boyfriend whose wife was in the Army and returned home.

     Anyway, Asshole Dad is in no position to punish anyone, since he’s as wrong as his daughter was. Mom must talk to the daughter about privacy, ramifications of her actions, etc. but I can see WHY the daughter did it = she was scared and wanted to stop her home from falling apart (kids always think their parents will instantly split, so she took a preemptive strike).

     Again, it’s a case of bad and worse. I feel for the family of Asshole Girlfriend as well as for the wife and daughter. There’s no comfort for them at all.

127. Your daughter is going to get all the punishment she can handle, in the form of watching her household go up in flames, the assets that were supposed to send her to college be divided and used to support two households in comparative poverty instead of one in comparative comfort, being forced to shuttle between Mom’s House and Dad’s House every week for the next two years, and being witness to all the other emotional and miscellaneous grief that she, in her adolescent cluelessness, brought crashing down in such spectacular fashion. (Yes, it was in all likelihood going to come crashing down eventually, but at least not explicitly as a result of her choices.)

     In other words, she will be suffering more than enough as a result of this. Coming up with some sort of “disciplinary” punishment on top of everything else is simultaneously over-the-top and beside-the-point. Don’t go there.

128. Force your daughter to accompany you to family counseling.

     You both need it.

129. I guess I’m somewhere in the middle here. Yes, I think FUBARD’s daughter behaved in an unbelievably cruel manner. Sending the pics to the woman’s parents and kids crossed a line, especially since the daughter is likely close with the woman’s kids herself. No matter how angry she was, she behaved in an unacceptable manner.

     But she’s 15, still young, and while she should have a developed enough sense of right and wrong to not lash out so nastily, I don’t think it’s too late for her to grow into a decent person. One incident, executed during an incredibly traumatic moment, does not a psychopath/sociopath make. FUBARD sounds angry enough that if his daughter behaving so cruelly was a common occurrence, he would have let loose during the letter and told. So I assume that this is the first time she ever behaved so badly – given the circumstances preceding the act, it doesn’t seem like your daughter is a raging bitch on a daily basis. Just now, when her dad’s girlfriend sent “him” a dirty message.

     So right now, instead of raging at your daughter, I’d throw myself into making sure she grows up right. Meaning counseling is more important than isolating her at her grandma’s.

130. Honestly? FUBARD got EXACTLY what he deserved.

     Don’t punish the kid for showing the world who you really are.

131. Having you for a father is punishment enough.

132. there is no way that the daughter is not completely regretting her actions at this point. she must be mortified now that the reality of the situation has sunken in.

     first, the dad is a moron and needs to grovel to the wife. then the daughter should apologize to her mom first and then dad for being a fucking thoughtless idiot. daughter should definitely apologize in person to the other family.

     both marriages are over. why didn’t he listen to dan and negotiate the situation with the wife in the first place?

133. Had the daughter blackmailed FUBARD for a few months with the info, then she’d have deserved punishment. Or a lobbyist position in DC. We’re living in an age of overshare, and that’s what kids today do.. they tell.

134. If the purpose of punishment is to teach, then maybe no further action is needed to show your daughter that deceit (whether it be snooping or an extramarital affair) brings nothing but grief.

     My mom died last month, and in the process of sorting through her belongings I found proof of the affair I’d long suspected—since I was FUBARD’s daughter’s age, in fact.

     My first reaction was definitely anger towards my mom. On the other hand, it’s none of my business. If my mom were alive, I would not expect an apology from her—she wasn’t married to me.

     Parents are people, and people fuck up. 15 is as good an age as any to learn that your parents’ entire lives don’t revolve around you.

     And then, basically what Painted Lady said.

     I say that still thinking of my mother—whose untreated manic depression erupted into unpredictable violent rages and sank her into near-catatonic states, who eventually figured out she could self-medicate with lots and lots of alcohol (which was somewhat more peaceful but no less stressful).

     Basically, she did a lot of shitty things while I was growing up. But she loved the hell out of my siblings and me, and when I think about her, that fierce determination to care for us overwhelms everything else.

     Also, I don’t see how FUBARD’s affair automatically makes him a terrible father and permanently ruins his daughter’s future personal life. Did his actions somehow nullify her personal agency? It might take a while, but you eventually you can always decide how other people’s actions affect you—if you’re willing to take the responsibility.

135. It’s too much to ask a teenager to handle such a revelation.

     Had they been older, perhaps they might have thought through the consequences before sending the photos to the woman’s family and friends.

     And if they had been older, the might have figured out how to really fuck with her mind.

     If they wanted to punish the woman — and her alone — they might have simply told her in the chat that her idiot “boyfriend” forgot to log off, and that they now knew about the affair, without identifying their identities.

136. The daughter’s been punished enough. Wow. I can’t believe punishing her is even on the dad’s radar screen. Doesn’t he have other things to worry about?

137. I have no problems at all with what FUBARD did. That daughter is an evil bitch. I really don’t understand all the battle cries about how the daughter is ruined. She was dishonest and manipulative enough to impersonate her father and bring the fallout of the affair crashing down on two families. She’s hardly an innocent little girl. She deserves to be punished.

138. My mom had an affair and I found out at age 12. I was devastated, but I still managed to be respectful of my parents. My mom’s boyfriend’s confused, eldery aunt often called our house, but I was always nice to her. I think if I could manage to be mature at age 12 and not say anything petty or mean to either my mom’s boyfriend or his aunt, then a 15 year old should be able to do better. However, I didn’t have the internet when I went through that, so I don’t know how I would’ve reacted given the dramatic circumstances of finding graphic pictures, etc. That must have been really terrible.

     I think that community service is a good punishment. The reason I think she should be punished is to set a precedence for future behavior. She’s a few years from age 18 and she needs to know right now that two wrongs don’t make a right. It would be easy to dismiss what she did under the circumstances, but letting her go unchecked won’t serve her. As an adult, what she did could get her into legal trouble. Letting her get away with it will give her the idea that it’s ok to retaliate and respond poorly whenever she gets upset at someone.

     Her reaction is easily understandable- anyone would be mad and her Dad should’ve been more discreet. But revenge doesn’t build character. And the idea behind being a parent is that you help your kids build good character. Which, clearly, this Dad hasn’t been doing. Punishing her would be doing her a favor in the long run, because she needs to know that behavior like that in the real world only leads to problems in life. She needs guidance. However, the caveat to all this would be: therapy, therapy, therapy, therapy and more therapy. And also a huge apology from Dad and an explanation to her about why she is being punished, even though her Dad was more wrong than she was.

     In short, she needs to know that it doesn’t matter how wrong anyone else was- in life, you get punished for what you do, not for what everyone else does. So even if 95% of the problem was someone else’s fault, you still have to pay for what you break, so to speak. She has to be held responsible for what she contributed to the problem so that she learns right from wrong. She needs to learn that no matter how wrong anyone else is, you still have to be accountable for your own actions.

139. OK, speaking as a male rape “survivor” (when I was 10 to boot) are you others who claim this shit is as bad or almost as bad that stupid? I mean come on, having consensual sex with someone other then your wife is almost as bad as rape? I say let the little harlot deal with the POLICE, report her stupid ass for violating privacy, impersonating others with malicious intent, distributing pornography to children, child endangerment, “sexting”, contributing to the delinquency of a minor, accessing pornographic material, etc. She did all of the above– acting in a CRIMINAL MANNER.

140. Okay…

     While the hormones of 15 are a commonality, as a 40-something, I am wondering how anyone over the age of 30 or so can begin to compare our adolescence to a 15 year old today. Even with the most vigilant of parents, my god, they have access to so much. Like their parents’ Gmail accounts – I can’t imagine how I could have stumbled across evidence of a cheating parent in the 1980’s.

     Today’s adolescents don’t have much in common with the way we grew up in many, many respects. One thing they all seem to do is – by default – share everything with everyone. Sure, there was a gossip-train in high school in my day, but nothing with the depth and breadth that’s present today. They do not understand that discretion can be a virtue.

     I have a temper and a half, and I’m pretty sure that if I found out one of my parents had been having an affair at that age, I would have simply told the other parent. Not the other spouse. Not the other kids. Not mutual friends. The daughter needs to understand that that level of cruelty has real-life implications – life is not an episode of Gossip Girl. Not everything has to be shared with everyone in your address book.

     I’m sure it felt good to the daughter, but she hurt other people. Not abstractly, either. She’s entitled to be hurt and angry at her father – but that does not mean she gets to hurt other people.

     Both the daughter and the best friend need to be punished – not severely, but purposefully. And it needs to be made clear they are being punished for the breadth of their cruelty, not for exposing the affair.

     I’d say at the very least, they need to apologize face-to-face to the other kids and the mutual friends for involving them in the personal problems of the two marriages. CPOS’s may not deserve the dignity, but the spouses sure as hell did. The kids shouldn’t have been involved at all.

     I would also say these girls need to do some volunteer work. A cheating father sucks – but there are worse things in the world. A sense of scale needs to be instilled, and a sense of discretion and kindness, even in the face of horrible shit.

     But yes – the father is in no place to issue the punishment. I would recommend that not only the mother set up punishment, but the father from the other marriage. If the girl felt she was adult enough to send the photos to this man and his kids, then she should face the adult consequences of hurting two separate families in one e-mail.

141. why do you want to punish her? to teach her a lesson? or out of revenge? From what you wrote it smells like to me that you are doing it because of the second reason. Which doesn’t speak very well of your parenting skills. Leave her alone, right now you have no moral grounds to tell her what is right and what is wrong. If you punish her she is going to hate you 20 times more than what she already does. And instead of sending her with her grandparents, perhaps you are the one who should move in with them.

142. Dude, you’ve probably got absolutely no moral standing in your daughter’s eyes whatsoever — don’t even try to hand out punishments, yourself, because you’ll only increase the extent to which she perceives you to be a hypocrite.

     Looking at it from a more detached standpoint, though… when adults discover someone they know is having an affair, they agonize over what to do. Sometimes they even write to advice columnists. It’s not like this is a situation where the right thing to do is obvious. And while, from a more mature standpoint, most adults would agree that your daughter’s reaction was the wrong thing to do, she was operating under very difficult circumstances! So if your wife wants to hand her a small punishment to help her learn that, even when you’re shocked, you still have to consider the feelings of innocent bystanders like your girlfriend’s children, then, sure. I think a small punishment is reasonable. But it’s clear to me that that punishment that you are suggesting is in proportion to the pain that YOU feel. Which is unreasonable, because, dude, you knew you were risking this the whole time. Most of this is on you.

143. The daughter is 15. Do any of you recall how traumatic that age was? I was contemplating suicide on a daily basis at that point. And I sure as hell didn’t know much about how relationships between adults functioned. She’s not a bitch – she’s a confused kid who did something rash after discovering what must have seemed like a massive betrayal. She will have to live with what happened and the burden of possibly being the catalyst for two families imploding – though the blame for that really lies with the two participants in the affair.

     And what she did was NOT that bad. She exposed an affair that was going to get exposed anyway. The way she did it was pretty damn horrible, but the facts would have come out less dramatically sooner or later. There really was no nice ending for this scenario – with daddy dearest leaving porn pics of his girlfriend on his computer screen, he was obviously getting careless.

     Really, how many of you at 15 – full of self-righteousness, immaturity, brashness and insecurity, and as deficient in empathy and foresight as the rest of your peers – would have had the presence of mind to close the pictures and forget they existed. Or to confront your own father in a polite and mature manner? C’mon – raise your hands now.

     This guy is a stupid ass. Who carries on an affair on a FAMILY COMPUTER? He knew what the possible consequences of his actions were. Rather than address the issues with his wife, bring his desires out into the open and try to find an accord, he went behind the backs of his family to get his rocks off. NOT the end of the world. But you don’t turn on your daughter when your own stupid actions bite you in the ass.

144. I think FUBAR should set an example for his daughter and apologize to those he’s hurt (including his daughter). I think she should also be asked to think about her spiteful choices and apologize sincerely at very least to the parents, children and spouse of the girlfriend. It might also be appropriate for both of them to take a nice long break from the Internet and spend some time learning how to communicate authentically and appropriately as a family.
     FUBAR’s plan to send his daughter to be with her grandmother as a punishment is just another little glimpse into the kind of asshole that he is. His daughter is going to respect him just as much as he respects his mother: being with him can be punishment for her kids…

145. Ugh. I hate humans.

146. I think they should all go on Maury and work this out.

147. The daughter is a vicious little bitch, who is no doubt busy blaming everyone else in the universe for what her weaselly actions triggered. Veda Pierce has nothing on her…

148. In my experience, decent teenagers become decent adults, and thoughtless kids stay thoughtless. I don’t think they’ve all read the scientific literature that excuses them from all responsibility.

     Sounds more a case of the apple not falling far from the tree. Father and daughter were both completely careless and self-absorbed in their actions. Punishment doesn’t fix character flaws, so why bother. Neither does therapy but it may at least help her be a functioning adult someday

149. Has anyone considered that this whole letter to Dan is a fake? Doesn’t it seem oh-so-convenient that this supposed adulterer was undone by some a couple of 15 year-old girls who just so happened to “accidentally” intercept Dad’s on-line tryst action, and sought out their revenge? This letter is about as real as anything you would read in Penthouse. Sorry, this never happened, and the author of this letter should be punished for writing something so juvenile.

     If this letter is for real, my advice to FubarDad is to suck it up and pay any price for being so stupid. Oh…and learn how to use the “log off” feature in Gmail.

150. @144 – JrzWorld:

     I wouldn’t have been able to face my father politely. And I sure as hell wouldn’t have closed the chat and forgot about it. I admit I might have tried to suss out who the CPOS on the other side of the chat was.

     But I wouldn’t have sent the images to the kids of the CPOS, the parents of the CPOS, or mutual friends. As bad as my temper may be, I have never been that mean.

     If this girl had just sent the images to the husband? I would have said “brava.” But she didn’t.

     I just would have found my mother and let her kick my father’s ass.

151. You don’t owe the daughter any punishment, but you definitely need to explain your side of things to her.

     Tell her the truth – you and her mom are sexually incompatible, sex is very important to you, yet you didn’t want to break up the family over it.

152. My God. What is wrong with some of you people? You assholes calling this poor 15 year old girl a bitch, let alone a fucking bitch or evil bitch, need to have your teeth kicked in.

     No punishment for her. No punishment. The consequences will occur naturally. The best thing for this girl is counseling to help her deal with her disintegrating family and stolen life, which may include as a part helping her understand that she released this damning information one circle too wide (to the kids in the other family), and increased their pain, and may lead to her apologizing to those kids for doing so.

     As for unrepentant narcissistic dad:

     Fuck off, you fucking prick! if anyone is leaving that house, it is you. If anyone deserves to be punished, it’s you. What punishment are you placing upon yourself, good sir? And don’t give me any crap about losing your life and your family and all the other natural consequences of your actions. Everyone else involved has to suffer those consequences too, and they are innocent. You are not.

     You want to punish your daughter? What a rotten sick bastard you are.

     You’re the CPOS. Accept it. Now man up and get to fixing this mess that you made.

153. All of you wretched people who say that what FUBARD did completely negates anything his daughter did in response: you can go to hell. Yes, Dad has hurt his family, that’s a given. I don’t think he’s ruined his daughter’s chances at having a relationship with a man ever. Quite frankly, the ship has already sailed for that little sociopath and her equally distressing BFF.

     Yes, send her to the grandparents for the summer. I hope they live in North Dakota. Dad’s actions in no way excuse his daughter’s. Also, take away her internet connection and her cell phone, and let her know that she can have them back when she’s learned a shred of empathy. That’s where the social work can come in.

     Dad wasn’t trying to be cruel to his wife. Neither was the friend he was having the affair with. They were trying to get their needs met when they couldn’t get it within their respective marriages. It’s a shame he screwed up and didn’t sign out of his email account – all of them would have gone on in blissful unawareness. But are you surprised? You shouldn’t be. Older people do this kind of thing all the time. Young people too.

     What his daughter and her friend did was a cruel and calculated move to hurt the maximum number of people possible. People in their family, people they probably knew very well in the other family, since the parents were all good friends. No one would have had to have seen that if not for the daughter’s selfish and disturbing behavior. Daughter could have quietly told Mom, or angrily confronted Dad.

     I’ve never cheated on anyone in my life, and I am sure I would be devastated if someone cheated on me. But the daughter’s actions are worse, and I would absolutely punish her severely.

     Fubard, if you love your wife, offer to stay and work on the relationship. If it’s truly and irreconcilably broken, then walk away. Make sure your wife gets custody of that awful daughter. Tell her the price of her behavior is any kind of relationship with you, at least in the short term. (Remind her that the moment she lashed out at every undeserving member of both families not yourself or the friend/lover, the cost was deducted.) Maybe she won’t care. But maybe someday she’ll realize how badly she screwed up, and she’ll feel some remorse. Hopefully she already does. If not, no cell phone or internet connection and a summer in North Dakota (away from the evil friend) will help fix whatever is wrong in her head.

     I’d also tell her sociopaths pay their own way through college, IMO. This kid needs to be dealt with severely before she becomes any more broken than she already is.

     The rest of you saying the daughter doesn’t deserve punishment? Seriously. You deserve ten lashes yourself, before you slap this man around.

154. I’m with Freud; there are no accidents, and FUBAR did not “forget” to log out of his Gmail account — there were deeper motives — self-hatred, tired of his marriage, tired of the game — at work, and if he were really a man, instead of taking it out on his daughter, he would cop to this.

     As for the daughter, can’t anybody conceive of the degree of shock, disgust, and betrayal that girl must have felt in that moment when she discovered her father’s infidelity in the most lewd way imaginable? And she is 15 — was she suddenly supposed to become Dr. Joyce Brothers and react in a “mature” manner? The father’s lack of empathy and compassion for his daughter is consistent with his overall assholish selfishness and disregard for others — you know this guy was one of those spoiled punks in high school who always acted as if everything was entitled to him.

155. Holy shit the girl is ONLY FUCKING FIFTEEN, was confronted with information that absolutely devastated her, OF COURSE SHE WAS GOING TO MAKE A RASH DECISION AND LASH OUT IN HER ANGER. GOOD FUCKING GOD. This isn’t the time to hold her up to high moral standards and ground her!

     The only thing her CPOS dad should do is pay for her to go to a counsellor, AKA a NEUTRAL THIRD PARTY, who will be in a better position to help the poor girl unpack how her actions were morally unwise. Do not punish her with grounding or forbidding her from seeing her friend or any of that nonsense (she’ll just see it as you taking your anger at being found out on her) or try to give her the morality talk yourself, because she’ll just think you’re spouting bullshit at her and tune it out. LET A NEUTRAL THIRD PARTY HANDLE TEACHING HER THAT HER ACTIONS CROSSED A LINE FOR FUCK’S SAKE.

     I will admit that I have no sympathy for FUBAR. I’m not all that much older than his daughter (21) and in the last few years many of my friends have been really emotionally hurt by their parents handling extra-marital affairs and divorces very, very badly. And yes, those teens frequently lashed out and became angry and their parents. And you know what? The parents–ESPECIALLY the cheaters–never, ever took responsibility for their actions or acknowledged that their children had a right to be upset at them for initiating a divorce or cheating. Instead they punished their children, directly (like grounding) or indirectly (withholding child support) for being upset.

     And you know fucking what? All those kids no longer want anything to do with that parent, which is totally fucking understandable. Don’t be that asshole FUBAR.

156. Irony: muffinprincess castigating this girl for not having a shred of empathy.

157. @60 has a good point. If the “girlfriend” is a “close family friend” then maybe the children are all close friends as well??? They clearly are at least teens themselves so maybe she just wanted to fuck their lives up too.

     Definitely NOT right, but understandable for a 15 year old. They aren’t really clear about internet and privacy. Believe me, my students post everything on facebook…it’s a different generation.

     FUBAR Dad, you fucked up man, but that was the risk you took. So accept YOUR consequences. You have no integrity in the daughter’s eyes, so don’t say shit. Give her her space and move out. This is your opportunity to get out of the marriage. Don’t stay because you feel guilty, damage has already been done. Let your wife find a more compatible partner. Good luck on trying to financially take care of two households.

     For those of you equating this to rape, um, let’s hold off on the comparisons. Not all rape is the same, so let’s not make blanket statements.

158. Wait, wait, wait, let me get this straight. Your 15-year-old daughter’s life has just been shredded to bits, and you’re asking about an *additional* punishment?!?!? Unfortunately, I still harbor memories of being a 15-year-old girl, and let me just say those are rough emotional times, even with solid parents. Also unfortunately, I harbor memories of finding, through an email account accidentally left open, evidence of my own father’s infidelity (minus the racy pictures, thank god). This turned my life upside-down and left me devastated, and it happened at the relatively emotionally stable and hormone-free age of 26. All I can say is, STFU and try to understand even a sliver of what your daughter is going through right now. She’s already being punished every f-ing waking minute for what she found on that computer, and EVERY SINGLE relationship she’s in for the rest of her long life, she will be thinking of you and your a-hole behavior. So LEAVE. HER. ALONE. Stop trying to take your anger and guilt out on the person that exposed your childish behavior, and leave any and all parenting decisions up to your wife for the time being. Good grief.

     And yes, to counteract all the posters who say she’s a “sociopath” and should be punished, as adults we can all see that her behavior was inappropriate and hurtful, but she’s FIFTEEN. Her frontal lobe is 10 years away from maturity, 10 years away from being able to fully inhibit impulsive behavior. You, as an adult male, though an albeit immature one, are totally and completely unable to understand what a 15-year-old girl’s brain is like. She found the emails, she was enraged, embarrassed, upset, defensive of her mom, and she reacted. What she’s going through is punishment enough. Leave her alone.

159. What #56 said is perfect. Hopefully in the presence of a mediator or therapist.

160. @157 LOL

161. An eye for an eye? Two wrongs make a right. No!
     The dad obviously made a decision that he knew would be life altering if he were caught. He will receive his punishment by watching his life crumble. You play you pay! The daughter made a decision to avenge the dads mistake on someone other than the dad. I think she needs to be punished so she knows that cruelty and revenge isn’t acceptable. Clarify and punish because this could be the same 15 year old who gets mad at someone at school and decides to be cruel and hateful on the Internet about the other person. Umm.. That’s called bullying or harassment. Yes the dads actions were morally unsound but he’s still the parent! Yes the mom should take the lead but to say he gave up his rights is ridiculous. He violated a vow to his wife not children. He very well could be a great dad and he wasn’t harming his children.. Yes the daughter may be traumatized but that’s when as a parent you provide your kids with the opportunity to grow, learn and heal. Kids don’t need to understand every adult situation.
     Geez.. There are consquences to every action!
     Remember before you tell this guy he’s a scum bag or other.. WE ARE ALL HUMANS!

162. WTF is wrong with some people? Yes, the way she acted was wrong and she need to understand it. That doesn’t make here anything more than a insensitive teen, not a sociopath. Being hurt tend to make people insensitive.
     In five years, nobody will care about the photos and the destroyed families will still be destroyed, by the two CPOS. There is a reason they are called pieces of shit. They built their lives, the ones of their spouses and kids on a commitment he made. He then betrayed again and again this commitment rather than communicating with his wife. This affair obviously wasn’t just a problem of sexual incompatibility: the need to keep the communication, to exchange pictures… He obviously took great pleasure in the lies themselves, used the family computer for his dirty affair, show no remorse for what he did and is even proud of himself: “We’re committed to staying in our marriages” So yeah, it kind of negate the daughter’s actions by comparison. Why does he even read/listen Dan??

     NO PUNISHMENT would make any sense given by the parents of the girl. What she need is to talk. (@156)

163. @49 has it right (and beautifully expressed), I think. That’s how my folks raised me, too: consequences, not punishments. I’m sure the daughter has been going through plenty of soul-searching, pain, and self-doubt as she absorbs the consequences of this series of events in the suffering of those around her. Right and wrong ain’t so simple. We cope with consequences and we learn from them. Punishments, on the other hand, carry all the wrong lessons.

164. @76 Keshmeshi – good point. I suppose the girlfriend may need to make amends to his family once the dust has settled and everyone is less emotional.

165. In general, impersonating someone else on email and spilling the secrets found within is wrong. However, finding out that one’s own dad is having an affair is a big deal. The daughter may have felt–correctly–that a big response to said big deal was appropriate. Her actions are completely understandable.

     If she is to be punished, it should not be for outing the affair but for doing so without speaking to her mother and father first so that either of them could suggest some less impulsive way of handling the situation. Please note the “if.” I doubt that the young lady is now under the impression that outing people over the Internet doesn’t have big, negative consequences. Unless she’s peacocking around the house looking for ways to find and out more people with dirty little secrets, let’s assume her lesson is learned.

166. A righteous apology consists of three parts:
     1. What you did. Just put it right out there.
     2. What was wrong about it. People hate doing this part, which is why it’s so important to do.
     3. What steps you will take to right the wrongs.
     Once you have apologized, preferably in front of both your wife and daughter (and preferably a therapist), then it’s time to talk about consequences. What are the consequences YOU will accept for your actions? At that point it’s important to invite your daughter to speak, uninterrupted by you, until she is done speaking. Listen. Write down what she’s saying so you are quite sure that you hear what she’s said. Invite your wife to speak, and do the same thing. Explain that you accept what they have said, and that you now want your wife to speak to your daughter about her (your daughter’s) actions and their consequences.

167. Consider your daughter’s perspective. She’s had 15 years of expectations of her parents, unrealistic expectations, because that’s pretty normal. She hasn’t been around long enough to understand the complexities of adult relationships. How long have you been at it? 20+ years? And you still don’t quite get it or make great decisions all the time. In her world, you hurt her mom and disgraced yourself. Your wife is going to have to deal with it (something I’m sure she looks forward to), regardless of what you do or say, because your daughter currently has no respect for you. And you want to remove her best friend from her life at a time when she may be facing the destruction of her family? What good can possibly come of that?

     Now, consider your wife. Unless you had an agreed-upon open marriage, she feels betrayed. No matter how justified you feel you are and actually may be. She’s dealing with an emotionally devastating situation alone, now, because the person she counts on is not available to her emotionally or physically. Your daughter and her mother need each other, and probably the last thing your wife wants to do is enforce a punishment. Your daughter already knows it was an invasion of privacy, it was wrong, etc. But she didn’t care how you or your girlfriend and her family feel. That was the point. She lashed out and there is nothing you can do about it.

     Move out, but get your own place. Let your wife know that you are no longer seeing anyone else, and allow some time for you both to figure things out. If there’s a legitimate reason for the affair, you either need to work that issue out or call it quits. But taking a time-out won’t hurt you in the least and is absolutely the only shot you have at staying married.

168. Also, WTF is up with all you people calling the daughter a sociopath? Do you not remember being in high school? I definitely remember at her age, if you were pissed with someone, THE way to get back at them was to make sure everybody knew about the transgressions they committed by telling everyone and getting the rumor mill started. Yes that kind of behavior isn’t terribly mature, empathetic or rational, but the process made sense because you were both warning everyone about how so-and-so was an asshole and getting so-and-so punished through social ostracizing. I still know plenty of people in their early twenties who call out cheating exes and shitty roommates over Facebook.

     It isn’t the nicest behavior, but she’s not crazy or a sociopath, she probably thought she was doing a decent thing by letting everyone who could have been effected by their lying know. Not. Evil. Not. A. Bitch. Not. A. Sociopath.

169. Someone missed the fundamental life lesson – don’t shit where you eat/sleep. After getting caught with your pants down your daughter is not the bad guy here. Focus where your priorities should be – cheating fucktards stay the hell away from each other and focus on your own families and see if there’s enough left there to get into family counseling. Punishing the daughter because you got caught just places another nail in the coffin of what was your family ties.

170. I’m not going to judge the infidelity, because there are many cases where I would find it morally justifiable. We don’t have those details.

     Talk to your daughter about the very real possibility that you and mom had an open relationship. Married adults do this often enough, but it’s none of their kids’ business. What if that had been the case? Also, she has no legal right to send nude pictures of a third party to ANYBODY. EVER. This behavior is so wrong as to be sociopathic, and she needs some serious boundaries counseling.

     I do not think she would have sent out the pictures if her friend hadn’t been with her at the time, though. She more likely would have confronted her mom or you with the information. But teen girls in groups are capable of doing heinous things that they’d never do on their own. This constitutes grounds for removing either the friend’s access to your home, or your daughter’s access to email. Or both. “Grounding,” in the sense that she is no longer allowed to have friends over/access to internet/texting until family counseling begins, sounds reasonable.

     But you’ve lost any credence you had as disciplinarian, so let your wife hand out the punishment.

171. There are about 150 comments before mine, and only 7 have any sense in them. so i’ll summarize.

     Counseling, duh.
     The daughter is a 15 year old girl, and should be punished, yes punished, for being a 15 year old girl who invaded someone else’s privacy, and sent naked pictures of a woman to the woman’s children. No Internet or cell phone for a month or two sounds good. And that obviously should come from the mother.

     Dad needs to back the fuck off, after begging forgiveness from two families, and Daughter needs to learn a lesson in maturity. If not at fifteen, when?

172. May I blame Dr (Regina) Barreca for the daughter’s reaction? The moment I heard her celebrating illegal female revenge against badly behaving men, I knew instinctively that it would lead to this sort of thing.

     It might help to know which of the two (if not both) is the Mean Girl and if either is the Reluctant Go-Along who either genuinely feels conflicted about Mean Girl behaviour or else pretends to herself about or “justifies” it in order to convince herself she’s still really a Nice Girl. It feels as if their reaction could have come directly from one of those made-for-Lifetime stories. It might also help for someone relatively clear-headed to discuss what happened with the friend’s parents.

     My original thought for a creative “punishment” was to send the daughter to some sort of juvenile FBI training camp (if such a thing exists and she qualifies) for the summer. One other poster mentioned the FBI, I noticed. A newer idea came to me to have the daughter watch an annoying movie (made-for-Lifetime?) on a regular basis and be obliged to write an essay on a set question, dealing if possible with something similar to her handling of the incident. Even if it doesn’t improve her character, it ought to help her writing skills.

     As for the LW, I shall content myself with commenting that his choice of playmate really upped the ante, and, entirely fairly or otherwise, upping the ante means upping the consequences one accepts if/when it blows up.

173. Therapy. Lots of therapy.

     A 15yo girl is a drama seeking force to behold. What’s wrong and right is blurred by what actions will get the most attention. Add another girl, any other girl to the mix and you get emails to the whole family. It’s hard to punish that. But what should be taught is the impact on the other family, because I’m sure she’ll see it in her’s. Some one else cited the right thing vs the right way to handle a situation. That’s what the lesson here is.

     Dad fucked up, it’s true. And if he never did anything to give her supreme daddy issues before, he has now. Parents, keep your kids OUT of your sex life.

     Oh, and he should only move out if that is the mother’s request.

174. I am absolutely shocked by the number of people who consider the daughter’s actions understandable. When I was 15, I also discovered a parent’s affair with a family friend, and I felt totally shocked and betrayed and spun by it.

     And what did I do? Absolutely nothing. IIRC, I don’t think I even mentioned it to any friends until college. Why did I tell no one? Because, though I couldn’t grasp the nuances behind my parents actions, I was plenty old enough to see that the nuances were there, and that it wasn’t my place to appoint myself the morality police.

     This was 15 years ago, and looking back I can better see the extreme rough patch their marriage was having & how they were struggling through it. For the last 10 or 11 years they have been happier then I’ve ever seen them. I am extremely grateful I had the sense as a teenager to leave the situation alone rather then pour gasoline all over it.

     As for this situation: daughter sounds like a budding sociopath. Though the seemingly awful parenting of her father is surely to blame to some degree, it doesn’t let her off the hook, just like we don’t excuse a victim of child molestation who grows up to molest others. I’m not sure exactly what punishment is appropriate, but it should be extremely harsh and severe.

175. fake…

176. Hard ass response to FUBAR D. You are too stupid and careless to ever have had an affair.

     You are a FCPOS who forfeited any right to privacy when you chose to betray your wife and family by having an affair. It is irrelevant whether either of you was committed to staying in your marriages, your spouses are and were the only ones that had/have the right to decide whether they want to remain in your marriages. At this point, what either you want or think does not matter. You lied to and deceived you spouses, children, and extended families. You are now trying to escape responsibility for the disaster you have created by blaming your daughter. How did you think she would react. You have destroyed her world and she has every right to hate/loath/detest both of you. If I were your spouse and I found out in the same way as your daughter, I would have responded similarly only I would’ve included your employers and everyone else in your address books, posted it on your facebook pages (after changing your passwords) and every other social networking site you belong to, craigslist, and various adult dating sites. In other words, scorched earth.

177. I’m sure everything that could be said on this subject has been said, but I don’t have time to read through 170 comments before bedtime (East Coaster here). Nonetheless, I’m saying this anyway: are you freaking kidding me, Dad? You want to send her to live with her grandparents for the summer? That doesn’t sound like punishment to me as much as it sounds like an easy way for you to get rid of your daughter for the summer while you figure things out with your wife and/or girlfriend. Dude, come on. Now is not the time to be a disciplinarian. Your daughter is unfortunately going to have to deal with the consequences of her actions, and the consequences of your actions, for a very long time. That is more than enough “punishment.” Not to mention if you legitimately do want to try and save your marriage/family, you’re doing yourself no favors by throwing the book at your daughter.

     Also, while I think the WAY she did it was wrong, I don’t think that it was wrong of the daughter to make the affair known. The last thing Dad said before asking if his daughter should be punished is “our marriages might be over.” Seems he wants to push at least SOME of the blame for that onto his daughter. Sorry Dad. That’s on you, regardless of how the affair came to light.

     (PS – This is coming from the daughter of a man who had an affair with his wife’s best friend for most of her childhood. My sister found about it, told my mom, and my mom didn’t believe her. Fast forward 15 years and my sister has spent the majority of her life on drugs and in prison. My younger brother, who also knew about the affair but didn’t understand it because he was too young, is an alcoholic. I’m not saying that my dad is responsible for their life choices, as I’m a firm believer that we make our own beds to lie in. However, I’m still glad that I was naive and never caught on, because I turned out relatively normal. For what it’s worth, Dad, I did fully forgive my father for the affair and his part in my parent’s divorce. I’m never going to be as close to him as I am my mom, but we do have a decent relationship. It took time to rebuild, but we get along now and I’m able to have solid relationships with men, I don’t always think I’m going to be cheated on, etc. So, here’s hoping that your daughter will be okay. Someday.)

178. I think what the daughter did was far worse than the father. Absolutely inexcusable. Reading someone’s email is a gross violation of privacy. Not to mention impersonating to find out more and then mailing sexually explicit photos to everyone. I would think up a really really harsh punishment for her so she understands the seriousness of this.

     If this “traumatizes” her re relationships, then she’ll have a tough time in the world. People cheat, all the time. The only people I know in relationships are either cheating, or they gripe so much about their partners you wish they would cheat and then they might shut up about it.

     It was wrong of her to ruin so many lives. I can see passing on info (not via computer!) to her mother. Then the mother can call out the husband and his girlfriend and there wouldn’t be all this other trauma.

     Then again, if I was a teenager and stumbled across sexually explicit things relating to my parents, I wouldn’t have been able to read further, nor would I want to find out more. So I wonder if this is fake.

179. Right now FUBAR should be more concerned that his daughter is at risk of running away and/or becoming a substance abuser.

180. Jesus christ. Talk about scapegoating. What you did was ‘wrong and hurtful’ but what she did was ‘cruel and disgusting’? Come on, Dad – don’t you think there’s a little bit of projection going on here? If you can excuse yourself enough to live with your affair (I’m sure you had extenuating circumstances, right…?) then you can sure as shit see your daughter’s extenuating circumstances in doing something impulsive and hurtful under pressure. I guess you just want to send her away because she reminds you a bit too much of someone. What a great dad.

181. @169 “Also, WTF is up with all you people calling the daughter a sociopath? Do you not remember being in high school? I definitely remember at her age, if you were pissed with someone, THE way to get back at them was to make sure everybody knew about the transgressions they committed by telling everyone and getting the rumor mill started…It isn’t the nicest behavior.”

     Yeah, it sure isn’t. It’s incredibly mean and hateful. What kind of a sick person are you? And no, I was not like that in high school. If I got angry with someone I did what I do now; avoid them as much as possible.

     Anyone who feels such need to “get back” at someone like that…yeah, you and this girl are both sociopathic. Casebook studies.

182. Let your wife choose the punishment, not because she’ll make the right choice – she absolutely won’t – but because it’s your own only opportunity to take the high road with her.

     After that, don’t speak to her again until she turns 25.

     What she did was way worse than what you did, and she’ll need at least ten years to figure that out.

183. Guilt will be far more effective than punishment in this case. The daughter needs to understand that she embarrassed and humiliated several people and possibly ruined two marriages as a result of HER actions. Yes the dad was having an affair. Whether or not she had the so-called “right” to out them can be argued either way. But she needs to understand that doing so, especially in the manner she did by sending explicit photos around, had consequences that were only caused by her not others.

     Once she understands this, the guilt should be way worse than taking away her Nintendo or some other such teenage punishment.

     I’ll also add that while her reaction to the discovery belies her teenage immaturity, honestly what a little bitch she is!

184. First off, I’ll admit that I haven’t read every single comment, so if this point has been made previously, I apologize.

     I’m struck by the number of people commenting that “she’s only 15, underdeveloped pre-frontal cortex and lashing out and ANGER and RAGE and blah de blah blah”. Guys, it’s not like she ran across these photos and just hit “reply all” in a heated moment. She sat down (with a friend! – yay for female bonding!) and coolly and calmly devised a plot to impersonate her father and entrap the girlfriend before spreading it around to everybody she could possibly think of. I’m in agreement with @140 – what she did was clearly illegal.

     At the very least, she needs therapy pronto, and to really drive home the severity of her actions, a nice little chat with a cop or lawyer. Then apologies to everyone that she sent her little poison-pen email to. Direct, face-to-face apologies. I will agree that any potential punishment, or “consequences” should not come from her father. There is no way she’s going to take anything he says seriously at this point. And probably not for quite a few years, either.

     Oh, and FUBARD, you’re a fucking idiot. Own it, and take responsibility for YOUR stupidity. Don’t try to push the blame for this snafu onto your 15 year-old’s shoulders.

185. I’m pissed that I read this letter during my break from studying because now I’m heated! This CPOS father reminds me of my own who had an affair with my mom’s bestfriend from the time I was 8 to 13 and probably longer. Except that my father had the presence of mind to fall back from being the authoritative prick he could have been and tried to apologize for his behavior. Anyone think that this 15 year old girl has little moral compass because her father was busy hiding this consuming affair, her parents were most likely fighting or having a shitty relationships and she was probably lost in all of this? Get her Into therapy soon. The CPOS seems to be a narcissist at best and a sociopath at worst. Cheating when children are involved, especially with a family friend is a rotten thing to do and having an insensitive, uncaring father like him is punishment enough. It took a long time for me to realize I picked unavailable, emotionally distant men like my father and hopefully with some help she wont experience
     The same

186. Count me among the people who don’t get the idea of this being “cruel.” I see it as an ill-considered reaction in the midst of an emotional freak-out.

     That said, however, the daughter needs to understand exactly where and how she crossed the line. Notifying the involved parties is appropriate, within reason. She went way, way beyond the involved parties.

     The other family’s children don’t count as involved parties. Of course they aren’t. Not in the sexual dealings of their parents, they most certainly aren’t. My children aren’t involved parties concerning my sexual dealings with my wife, their own mother. What their parents do sexually isn’t, and shouldn’t be, their business at all. As far as they are concerned, it should stay strictly behind closed doors, no exceptions. Sending those children sexual pictures of any sort — let alone pictures of their Mom, for gods’ sake — constitutes a gross violation of their childhood.

     Notifying a bunch of mutual friends was vastly beyond the pale. Clearly she wanted to punish Dad by publicly humiliating him for daring to have a secret life. However, once that starts, it’s out of her control. If dad loses his job because word gets out to his boss who’s a blue-nosed conservative, and the family ends up forfeiting their home, yes, that can be traced directly back to the daughter being obnoxiously indiscreet.

     Both families are going to be subjected to all manner of societal blowback from her broadcasting this. Some of it is going to fall on the daughter herself.

     The only people who rightly should have been notified were her own mother, and the girlfriend’s husband. Well, and the two cheaters, to let them know they’d been busted.

187. Right now FUBAR and his girlfriend have absolutely no credibility with their spouses, children, or family. They have lied to and deceived all of them, assuming none of them knew about it already. Credibility is always the first casualty when caught cheating. It is going to take a very long time to rebuild that credibility. The first step is to permanently sever all contact with the girlfriend (as if that is going to happen). Right now neither his wife or daughter are going to believe anything he says. He has destroyed whatever parental authority he had. For him to chastize his daughter for flagrent lack of respect for the basic humanity of others is so beyond hypocritcal that he has to be delusional. What does he think he and his girlfriend have been doing those three years if not showing flagrent lack of respect for the basic humanity of their spouses and children.

188. Guilt will be far more effective than punishment in this case. The daughter needs to understand that she embarrassed and humiliated several people and possibly ruined two marriages as a result of HER actions. Yes the dad was having an affair. Whether or not she had the so-called “right” to out them can be argued either way. But she needs to understand that doing so, especially in the manner she did by sending explicit photos around, had consequences that were only caused by her not others.

     Once she understands this, the guilt should be way worse than taking away her Nintendo or some other such teenage punishment.

     I’ll also add that while her reaction to the discovery belies her teenage immaturity, honestly what a little bitch she is!

189. Nearly half of these comments are worthless, as they have no reading comprehension whatsoever. Paragraph four clearly states, “stick to the subject at hand.” I got tired of counting, so @1,2,4,5,6,7,9,11,12,14,17,24,26,28,29,30,39,ScreenName,45,53,54,55,59,65,68,
     69,74,75,78,91,95,97,100,102,107… plus 178 & 179 (who are right my comments field. I don’t bother w/ the unregistered commenters):
     Your opinions count for nothing, because you misunderstood the question, being far too eager to lash out in judgment. The lw & his family are hurting, and you offer nothing but anger and accusation. Nice going.

     First off, Fubar’d, you & your wife are responsible for the vast majority of your daughter’s personality. Whatever she used to base her decisions on, most of it came from you. That’s not said to blame you, but to help you in understanding your daughter & why she chose to do what she did.

     This sort of thing is beyond punishment. It has irrevocably changed the lives of your families & friends to such a degree that your life before this will seem like fairy tale. Your old life is gone, it won’t come back. Enjoy the memories. Everyone is reeling, and any ‘punishment’ will cause further confusion, anger, hurt.

     It is quite likely that your daughter no longer trusts you. Sit her down and in as calm a manner as you can, tell her basically what you wrote in the letter. End it with, “…and that is why I can no longer trust you. It may be possible in the future we may learn to trust each other. But that will only be the result of both of us working on it. I’m willing to do so, but I can’t do it alone. You will have to do your part as well.” How she reacts will determine what you should do.

     This is all operating under the assumption that you want to be a part of her life. If not, disown her now, leave the family, start a new life somewhere else.

190. I have to say that so far I find 141 to be the clearest voice of reason on either side- Taking into account the mindset of a 15 year old in 2011 while still not giving her a pass for hurting innocent bystanders. Well done.

191. Criticizing FUBARD is not the point here; the issue at hand is whether and how to punish the daughter. She’s 15, which is old enough to know right and wrong. Hurting her father and his lover is understandable, hurting all the innocent people around her father and his lover is unacceptable and definitely requires punishment. She had no right to take her pain and anger out on the lover’s family. And even if FUBARD has fucked up, he still retain the moral authority and obligation to teach her why what she did is wrong. My suggestion is that he require his daughter to write individual letters to all the parties involved apologizing for her actions. That will force her to think about the ways she hurt innocent people. The father probably needs to do something similar.

192. Well said, 141. I concur.

193. ..consider yourself lucky she didn’t burn down the house…
     …with all y’all in it…

194. ..oh..i almost forgot.. he also wants to punish her by banning all contact between her and her best friend. who is perhaps the only person who understands exactly how she feels. the ONLY person she trusts.
     ..wow…

195. What’s the one thing we know about FUBARD? With his 3-year affair with a Family Friend (wink wink), he is a 1st class liar. For all we know, his daughter did it on accident, or she tried to send it to the girlfriend & posted it to all. Or FUBARD did it himself; after all, he doesn’t understand even the most basic computer functions. And now he’s trying to blame his daughter, kinda like now when his affair is his wife’s and his girlfriend’s husband’s fault.

     Punish her? Now that she’s traumatized and needs her friends (the people she still may ba able to trust)? Gimme a break, fucktard. I mean, FUBARD. SHE didn’t destroy any lives. You did.

196. I think its interesting all of the assumptions people make about the friend. All I could think of is how horribly embarassing it would be to find out all of this with your friend there.
     The way this guy talks about his daughter, I have a hunch that she is actually his step daughter.
     I bet she already had an ideas that something weird was going on too.
     Isn’t it creepy that he was getting explicit pictures on the family computer in a common area? I would hate find out I was using a mouse and keyboard that my dad had used to look at sexy pictures of his girlfriend with…

197. It’s a complete mess. I actually agree with the father that his daughter went way out of bounds (informing spouses is one thing, going on to the kids is quite another), but… he’s not the one to do anything about it.

     And in all honesty, the way all of this is going to go down — daughter is in the middle of this. She’s hardly getting off “free” — her entire family and friends, etc are toast. At some point she’s going to realize she could have handled it differently.

     I’d say it’s all in the wife’s hands at this point — any punishment due to the daughter, whether he moves out or not, etc.

     Actually apart from anything else, I’d pony up for therapy for the daughter. She’s going to have significant dad & trust issues.

     And finally: Wow. Just wow. Dude, second gmail account you access ONLY from your cellphone, which times out & locks after a minute. Although at this point, your wife can & should demand complete access to your cellphone and sundries for a while — if she doesn’t kick you to the curb.

198. I’m sure everything that ought to be said already has been said, but here are a few points anyway:

     * Why the hell are you all worried about how to “punish” your daughter? Right now, you ought to be relating to her not as a parent who possesses some kind of moral high ground, but as a human being who has hurt her BADLY through your actions, and has been badly hurt in return. Open up and talk to her about why what she did was fucked up, sure, but do not lash out at her. The ideas of sending her away to live with her grandparents, or banning her from seeing her best friend, both sound like your narcissistic revenge fantasies. Grow the fuck up.

     *Family therapy would be really, really good here. You’ve lost your moral authority, your wife is horribly hurt by the situation, and your daughters overreacted in a major way. Go see a trained professional who can act as a neutral party.

     *Also, at 15, kids can be really invested in the idea that their parents have a “perfect” relationship, and they don’t understand the complexities of adult sexuality at all. When I was 15, I found some of my dad’s porn on the computer desktop, and even that tiny glimpse into a sex life that didn’t involve my mom was really, really confusing and disturbing to me. No I didn’t inform anyone else, but it was a bad experience that it took me a while to get over. Now, please imagine what you just did to your daughter with your sloppy-ass cheating. It will take her YEARS to forgive you for what you did.

     *If you really want to help her understand the enormity of what she’s done just have her call and apologize to everyone who saw the photos. Having to listen to their reaction should do it, imo.

199. I am sorry guys the LW is a total asshole.

     I may be approaching it from a completely different POV because I think cheating is very rarely, and I mean, VERY rarely acceptable. I am not sure if the LW had an arrangement with his wife but it doesn’t seem like it– this seems to be a case of straight up cheating.

     What really strikes me here is that he doesn’t seem to have ANY empathy for his 15 year old daughter whose life he turned upside down with his greediness and stupidity. What a jerk– yes, she should be told that what she did is wrong but the LW is not reacting like a concerned father here, he just wants to get back at her for founding out about his deception.

     And, yes, kids should be kept out of their parent’s sex lives but let’s not pretend that the state of their parent’s marriage, which very often involves sex lives, is unimportant to their well-being. Children notice more than anyone thinks.

200. She’s 15. She found out her father’s cheating on her mother with a close family friend she probably considered a sort of auntie. She handled it badly. Shocker.

     The girl’s whole family is in shambles. She’s already suffering way more from what he did than she deserves for what she did.

     She’s punished enough.

201. The girl’s freaking 15 years old confronted with a very complex issue. Yes, she acted immaturely. That’s because she’s only 15 years old.

     What the dad needs to do is work on repairing his relationship with his daughter. Eventually, when things have healed between them, he can talk about the issue of privacy. He can talk about how it wasn’t fair to humiliate the innocent parents and children of the affair partner. They had no part in the affair, but they were hurt by the whole incident. All that can be discussed. But the first thing to do is to work to rebuild the trust between father and daughter.

     FUBARD should definitely get counselling to help him deal with this issue with his daughter. I’m going to repeat: HE NEEDS COUNSELLING. A counsellor can help him figure out how to work through his problems with his daughter and regain that father/daughter bond. Yes, she’s lost his trust, but he’s lost her trust too, and punishment is not going to get either back.

     Now, if he’s working on fixing his marriage, he’ll probably end up seeing somebody with his wife. But he should get individual counselling as well.

202. All this side-taking is very well and good, but I’m with the couple people who suggested that the apple doesn’t fall far from the tree. Instead of comparing cheating and snooping pieces of shit, why don’t we cut our losses and write both Dad and daughter off as royally fucked up due to poor genes, environment, or both? Therapy can’t change their DNA!

203. Even if you were innocent in this situation, FUBARD, I would tend towards recusing yourself in your daughter’s discipline on this issue. I do agree that what she did was way out of bounds and she shouldn’t get away with it. She needs to know that what she did was like pouring gasoline on a burning trashcan.

     But, if you were a judge, a qualified legal expert, and somebody broke into your hard drive, you’d face serious professional censure, possibly even criminal charges if you were to sentence him.

     And that’s if you were the innocent victim of a crime. But you ain’t innocent here, FUBARD. You fucked around behind your wife’s back with a woman she thought was her friend. Affairs happen. Affairs never happen in a vacuum. Even if it was a case of the least wrong thing you could have done, you still did wrong.

     Imagine a judge sentencing the guy who broke into his hard drive and exposed him for taking bribes. Totally wrong.

     The excessiveness of your proposed sentence proves it. Grounded for A YEAR? Live with the grandparents? Please.

     I also think that if your wife is the kind of gal to be fucked around on, that is, if you’re not a total douchebag, she’s probably not very well equipped to handle the sentencing herself.

     Really. I seriously think the best advice is Dear Abby’s old standby: bunting to the infield of professional help.

204. First of all, look, I’m sorry, but going on the details we’ve been given about the affair – “we have higher sex drives than our spouses” – I don’t think this is a situation where cheating is acceptable. Obviously we don’t have any more information than that (has he tried to negotiate openness with his wife, do they talk about sex, etc) but going on what we’ve got, that would be my opinion. That said, we barely know anything and it’s not a helpful judgement to make.

     Regardless of the morality of the situation, though, it doesn’t look like FUBARD has paid anything more than lip service to his own part in it. His girlfriend is humiliated and their spouses are devastated, and their marriages might be over. That cannot be laid at his daughter’s feet, regardless of her thoughtless behaviour; he had an affair, covered it up badly, and got caught. This would have been the case regardless of how it had been discovered.

     The daughter acted badly. Why? Who knows? (All those calling her a bitch – she’s FIFTEEN. A lot of people are bitches at fifteen, and it’s the consequences of the bitchy things they do that make them grow out of it. Lay off.) Maybe the best friend did have something to do with it, in that the daughter was emotionally vulnerable and easily led in terms of her actions and the best friend went “hey, this’ll make ’em pay, won’t that make you feel better?” without really thinking about what the revenge would lead to. Maybe it was all her idea because she wanted someone to lash out at. Whatever the case, she needs to learn that it was wrong. Okay. Fine.

     Grounding her for a year? No longer FUBARD’s call, unnecessarily harsh, and you know what? Petty. She needs to learn the respectful and mature way to handle these situations – you think cutting off her social life and sending her away during the summer is going to do that? She needs to be told that while her feelings of anger and hurt are justifiable she had no right to involve innocent third parties (the husband, the kids, the relatives, the friends) in this; that she has, in doing so, shown herself to have little consideration for how this might have affected them and probably hurt some people who didn’t deserve it very deeply. Community work, maybe. But not only is the punishment suggested harsh, it’s not going to get through and it’s not one FUBARD has any right or reason to suggest.

     (And also, racy Gmail chats on a computer other people have access to with someone you technically shouldn’t be having them with in the first place? Asking for trouble, regardless of the situation. Even if your wife had known about and approved of the affair that would have been a stupid way to go about it.)

205. In short, FUBAR and his family need to enroll in family therapy if they ever want to have a shot at normalcy. The damage inflicted onto his wife and daughter is far more extensive than FUBAR realizes.

     FUBAR: you should also realize that your daughter is a child and reacted accordingly. Had she been a clear thinking 19 year old then maybe a discussion about punishment would be in order, but no 15 yr old child is equipped to react “properly” to an event of this nature, so cut her some slack and admit to yourself that what you want is not punishment for your daughter but revenge for revealing your bad behavior.
     You, Sir, are the adult in the family and the one who sets the tone and establishes the family’s value system. Accept the fact that you destroyed a lot of lives, forgive your daughter for pointing it out, and spend the next few years seeking their forgiveness by proving that you actually deserve it.

206. There’s a reason we don’t let 15 year olds drive, vote, or work full-time. There’s a reason we discourage them from dropping out of school, getting knocked up, drinking, doing drugs, and getting tattoos or piercings. There’s a reason we don’t ask them to make major life decisions.

     They. Aren’t. Ready.

     Maybe it’s because I was fifteen not all that long ago, and I remember being fifteen pretty vividly, but I’m on the daughter’s side 100%. The only reason I can think I would have done that is a vision of myself as a deliverer of justice, and the dramatic, terrifying truth was a part of that. (Inflated sense of self-importance: isn’t that one of the reasons we all love to hate on teenagers?)

     A lot of people have said “Fifteen is old enough for X,” but we don’t know this girl, and we don’t know what kind of fifteen she is. An early-blooming mature fifteen? A just-hitting-puberty awkward fifteen? A superhumanly emotionally adult fifteen who is able to resist relationship drama? Fuck, I’m in my 20s, and I can’t do that either. That’s why I read Savage Love. If I found myself today where she was, I’d freak the fuck out. Several years of reading Savage is probably all that would stop me from having a total CHEATING IS THE END OF THE WORLD meltdown.

     I doubt very much she did what she did out of cruelty. I would guess she did it because she thought it was what needed to be done. I’m certain she didn’t realize she was unnecessarily hurting anyone, because I’m sure she didn’t think it through very far. (Again: Fifteen! The tattoos! They aren’t ready to think everything through!)

     But you know what? I could be wrong! Because I don’t know her either! And I can’t guarantee that no one said this already, because I didn’t comb through EVERY post, but I haven’t seen anyone suggesting anyone ASK her what she was thinking. Why don’t they just ASK HER WHY? There’s a lot of shit going on in a teenager’s head. Don’t waste your energy guessing what’s happening, and certainly don’t tangle it up more by getting your petty, immature bullshit revenge. TALK TO HER! Talk talk talk. And let her talk.

     I agree with the poster who said the best way to teach her empathy, and to realize the cruelty of what she did, is to make her apologize to the people she hurt. In person is best. It will kill her, and she will be ashamed. Doing community service isn’t going to teach her empathy, and I don’t think it should be a punishment anyway. All it will teach her is that she can’t trust either of her parents to back her up when she does what she thinks is right. It was a misguided attempt to do the right thing, and now it needs to be guided by showing her the pain she caused. If you want her to EVER enjoy community service, don’t make it a punishment. The same for sending her off to be with her grandparents, except that adds the element of rejecting her and withholding love, a buy-one-get-one of parental dickishness.

     Dad should stay the fuck out of that. And apologize to her every day until she moves out, and after that to boot. How badly he’s fucked up her trust in men is punishment enough, and one that will last the rest of her life, I’m betting.

207. I don’t know if I’m unusual, but I can imagine that if I was 15 I would have done a similar thing in the emotion of the moment.

     Also, I’d imagine that the upset of finding out about your affair is a punishment in itself.

208. wow….

     I haven’t read every single comment, but most, so apologies if I repeat something.

     Putting aside the judgement about the affair, by exposing your daughter to this you have done her a lot of damage.

     Your daughter reacted in an awful way, especially since she has not only humiliated you, which you deserve, but also her mum and the other family. 15 is old enough to be aware this is bad, but she may well not have been fully aware of the full implications of what she was doing, especially since it would have been deeply upsetting for her to find this. I think as this all unfolds, unless she is a sociopath, she will realise how many people she has hurt, and I am sure she will feel very guilty.

     Separating her from a good friend, and her support group by grounding her, when she is dealing with this shit is cruel. While I agree that parents should have absolute authority, you don’t want to teach her that children get punished, but adults do whatever they like. You need to acknowledge your role in the humiliation of the two families, by pursuing an affair with a close family friend and exposing your daughter to this.

     I think if you give her any community service you should do it with her. It will show her that you see that you have played a very big role in what happened, but also punish her for reacting to it in a vengeful and selfish way. In addition, it will give you forced time together, where you can attempt the maybe impossible task of maintaining some form of relationship with her, I think this should be your main priority at the moment.

209. I am so fucking tired of hideously-behaved, self-centered, mega-entitled, unforgiveably rude, mouthy, willful, imperious, abusive teenagers getting a pass for their horrid behavior. When my neighbors’ kids were teenagers, I wouldn’t even let my little ones AROUND them out of fear that their shitty treatment of their parents would smear off onto my sweet kids. “Fifteen is a rough age,” was always my neighbors’ response when I would ask why some outrageous line-crossing insult or behavior was not given a consequence. MY ASS. Once these little fuckers moved out of the parents’ house and realized the rest of the world did not think they were the center of the universe, they actually became a little more humble. Therefore, if people would stop treating their kids/teens like they were the center of the universe, like consequences and the rules of decency don’t apply to them, then they would learn sooner not to be such dickheads. Bottom line: this princess’ hurt and rage did NOT give her a pass to abuse others — and what she did was abuse — to ALL parties. Not taking you anger out on others is a LEARNED BEHAVIOR, a taught behavior. I would make her apologize to those kids, and I would take away ALL access to internet for a good month.

210. This is the saddest thing I have read here in a very long time. I hope that you read my comment, FUBAR-D, because I too have had my family life implode because of a decision that I made. When I came out it was every bit as devastating for my wife and kids. I still haven’t made all of the pieces fit back together; it’s possible, however much I hope not, that I never will. Punishing your daughter at this point is just moving deck chairs on the Titanic: it’s not gonna change anything, but if you survive this it WILL make you feel stupid(er). I hope you manage to salvage some of the good things out of this.

211. My son is not allowed to ask his parents about their sex life. It’s none of his business. I can’t understand how all of you think this girl was “betrayed.” The father-daughter relationship has nothing to do with sex or romantic commitment. She is not an extension of his wife.

     He has no monogamous sexual commitment to his daughter.

     He has no commitment to his daughter that he will never love another woman.

     He is her father and so has a commitment to love her and take care of her as his child.

212. I think you need to worry more about rebuilding your relationship with your daughter than concern yourself with punishing her.

     Children look up to parents and elders and expect them to conform to their mental image. You broke her expectations of you in a rather dramatic way, and there are going to be deep emotional scars that need healing dude.

     Is your daughter supposed to trust you again? Respect you? You are in for a long haul, buddy.

213. @214 Disagree. I think you do have a commitment to your family not to lie and cheat.
     That aside, finding out that your Dad is a lying bastard, who is so inconsiderate that he doesn’t even bother to find someone who isn’t a family friend, when he wants to cheat, massively damages your relationship with him. Denying the impact your behaviour will have on your children is very selfish imo.

214. I disagree with the shrill voices that insist this girl now has no chance at a positive relationship with a man because of how her father behaved. This is completely unknowable. Each of us has known people (or been one) that’s gone through far far worse and been able to connect deeply with a mate later on in life. Others have gone through far less and really made an impact in such profound ways that the opposite is true.

     I do think that you’ve fucked up in a brilliantly, spectacularly human way. You are a walking Shakespeare play, man. But there is a huge chance for you to understand a hell of a lot more about yourself, and that is always to be wished. But you’ve forfeited your chance to be righteous, no matter what. Leave it alone. Give up any expectation of *anything* from either your wife or your kids, your darker side has been exposed and you are at the mercy of the court, so to speak. You’ve hurt people here, so has your daughter, but it originated with you. You dropped the match and it ain’t her fault she caught fire, and it ain’t her fault she didn’t have the maturity, life experience, or skills o even understand the nature of the fire. So chill out, be contrite, go sit under the metaphorical olive tree on the top of a hill and reflect on things. Don’t ask for anything except maybe forgiveness and leave everybody else alone for a while.

215. Had FUBARs daughter done this as an adult, wouldn’t she possibly be facing jail time if the other family decided to press charges? Since FUBAR is the adult, could he face charges? Either way, he should step back from “punishment” because that might not be the best way for her to learn anything from this situation. Afterall, with FUBAR as her father… who knows what childish behavior she has lived with having him as a role model. If the mom “punishes”, the daughter may resent her since she is also a victim of the same circumstance. The consequences of her actions should be discussed in family counseling. Community service sounds like a good idea. At least it will keep her busy in a positive way and away from her parents. She should also be in weekly therapy of her own to help process this mess.

216. Here’s what you do FUBAR Dad, you assemble your family into a room and you take responsibility for YOUR actions. You apologize to your wife and your daughter and any other children or family members involved in this mess.

     Leave out any “buts”, like “I was wrong to be a lying POS cheater, but you… blah, blah, blah” Set an example for your daughter of what a person should do when he FUBAR’s a situation. Let her see that when someone screws up they should do their best to make amends to those that they have hurt and hopefully help the victims of their bad choices heal from the betrayal.

     Perhaps by setting this example for your daughter she will see the error in her own ways, BUT you aren’t the person to impose discipline on her in this situation and neither is your wife. Talk to some other adult, one who doesn’t have a vested interest in the outcome and one whom she trusts and respects. Ask them to discuss her actions and the inappropriate nature of what she did and the ramifications of the collateral damage her decisions had on innocent people. Maybe if you come clean with with this third person about how you handled your FUBAR they can use you as an example of how we all fuck up, but that its how we react to our fuck ups that define our character more than the fuck up itself.

     I’ve been in your position myself, both as the cheater and the cheatee. Karma can be a muthafucka!!!

     Good luck to you all!

217. I think it’s an impressive feat that the 15 year old daughter was able to successfully impersonate her father in writing, what with these kids and their wacky texting “lol omg wat u doin 2nite?”

218. Trying to make your daughter see what she did as a moral failing is going to take some doing if it’s coming from the guy who cheated on her mom. The sooner you realize it’s a fruitless endeavor, the sooner you can get on with your life.

219. @191

     I assumed my judgement of that cheating piece of shit and applauding his daughter was answer enough. She deserves no punishment. He deserves more.

     I’m tired of seeing SLOTD where idiots want post-facto justification and support for their lousy behavior.

     Fuck him.

220. @214

     being a parent means you have a responsibility to create as stable and loving an environment as possible for your children. his sex life became his daughter’s business when he decided to create such a volatile situation and then be ridiculously careless about it. he betrayed her by placing his own sexual desires, NOT needs, before his family.

     so yeah, good effort, but you’re way out of line. it WAS her business, she may have overreacted, but she just had her whole world fucking turned upside down. they’re called “extenuating circumstances” for a reason.

221. Some sympathy for the daughter is warranted here. Having discovered my own father’s affair when I was a teenager, I know how traumatizing it is to have that bomb dropped in the form of finding tawdry evidence of dad’s sleazy dark side. To be 15 and discover explicit photos of dad’s girlfriend? Who is also your neighbour? How can anyone expect a 15-year-old, whose adult moral compass is still developing, to exercise good judgement and discretion when faced with such a shitbomb? Dad has to take a huge amount of responsibility for exposing his kid to that. If a kid finds dad’s gun and shoots his foot off, you don’t blame the kid for snooping.

     FUBARD’s daughter was likely filled with anger at the time and irrationally thought she was doing justice by informing everyone who could be informed about the affair. Of course it was wrong for her to violate dad’s privacy, but would she be facing summers in exile and separation from her best friend had she been caught snooping but without finding anything incriminating?

     Dad is in no position to make an objective judgement on the girl’s punishment. Leave it to mom.

     And for fuck’s sake, what were these two morons doing making racy, explicit porn for each other? When you’re having an affair, you don’t create evidence. It will be discovered! Guaranteed. Especially when you have teenagers in the house. In a sense, they had it coming.

222. @ 214, the difference between your son and this girl is that you have explicitly taught him delving into your sex life is an unacceptable breach of your privacy and such behavior is not to be tolerated. Other kids in our culture are, unfortunately, typically taught that their parents’ successful, “perfect” 100% monogamous marriages are very important and reflect upon the stability and legitimacy of the family as a whole. I completely agree with your perspective on kids’ lack of a right to interfere in their parents’ sex lives, but it seems that FUBARD never taught his daughter that lesson. And yes, it will injure her ability to trust him.

     Also, I’m guessing that you conduct your sex life discreetly and privately, which is the exact opposite of what FUBAR did.

     @ 217, I agree with you that FUBARD still has a chance at a positive relationship with his daughter. But first he has to stop framing this issue as “how should I punish her for this transgression?” and thinking about draconian measures such as grounding her for a year, sending her to live somewhere else, or banning her from seeing her best friend. He is still angry at his daughter and is seeking revenge against her.

     Each of them will have to forgive the other. I don’t think that’s impossible but it will be difficult. Family therapy is pretty much required.

223. I call bullshit on the letter.

224. I think that the kid needs to be punished and to apologize for making the situation far worse than it needed to be….she should have talked to her dad or at the very least her mom first…how do you think her mom felt finding out that way? What she did was awful and wrong….she needs to personally apologize to each person that she sent that to and the GF and to learn that we cant always act impulsively when we are angry….as for the mom and dad…i think they need to get over this and either accept their marriage as open or they should try to meet each other’s needs….divorcing over this would be stupid as they seem to actually love each other….i don’t think cheating is all one-sided….it takes creating an environment where one’s needs aren’t being met first in order for cheating to happen…

225. I know what the daughter did was wrong, and someone mature enough to realize this wouldn’t see it right away. But she’s a kid, and most likely didn’t see it like that. Being told from a child that things are either good morally or bad morally, made her decision sound right. You were the one making the bad moral decision, so she did what she thought the good moral decision was. And out of hurt, sent it to the people that caused that hurt, in the worst way she could think of.

     But I think if you left, as much as you want to punish her, would be the worst move. What is she to think when her dad leaves, and maybe never ‘makes up’ with the wife again. She’ll be burdened with the weight of her breaking up the family. The ‘If she hadnt said anything, mom and dad would still be together.’ and then she’ll definitely need therapy.

226. The girlfriend’s kids are probably as morally bankrupt as everyone else in this so letting them know what a whore their mom is, was probably not a shock. Letting the grandparents know what a sank they raised? Also good.

227. I’m surprised by how many people believe the daughter is “punished enough” by Dad’s actions. Dad’s actions were in no way a punishment or reflection of the child’s behavior or relationships, even though it will continue to affect her in the future.

     Honestly, though, that child’s actions should be addressed. Had she approached her father, or mother, upon reading Dad’s emails, that would have been one thing. But to go the extra length to pose as Dad, and involve so many unnecessary victims is cruel and irresponsible. In school settings, we call that cyber bullying. At the very least, her Internet privileges should be taken away.

228. Really, guy? You cheat on your wife over a prolonged period of time simply because your libido is higher than hers, and your chief concern is how your daughter did you wrong? The knowledge that her father is an insensitive, self-absorbed, unfaithful jerk is punishment enough. She showed you the precise level of respect you are owed.

229. I am uncomfortable with the posts that label the daughter as a ‘tart’ and ‘harlot.’

230. She wasn’t just a “friend”. FUBAR kept referring to her as his “girlfriend”. That is a hell of a lot more then a fuck buddy. Not only did he screw with his daughters sense of trusting men, but also her ability to believe that platonic relationships are possible.
     This entirely smells of christian fundie. What teenager knows the email addresses of her parents friends parents? Oh wait, when they are in a church directory.
     FUBAR is most likely the one that taught his daughter that affairs were evil, sinful and should be severely punished. However, most fundies believe that divorce is far worse.
     Something tells me that FUBAR is the one that taught his daughter that morality is far more important then empathy. Punishing her severely doesn’t undo that lesson. It just reinforces what she already knows, that FUBAR is a hypocrite.

231. @225 planned barrenhood
     Okay, that’s fair. If they allowed their daughter to be a participant in their marriage/sex life then to some extent it’s her business. However, as Rach3l says above, the girl had no idea whether her parents have an open marriage. I am, as you say, discreet (and faithfully monogamous). If I decide to cheat or have an open marriage I have no intention of getting my son’s buy-in any more than I would choose his girlfriend for him or tell him what sex positions he’s allowed to use.

     The daughter in this case can certainly be upset about the future stability of her family but who her dad fucks has nothing to do with “betraying” her. That’s between him and his wife.

232. I admit that I’ve only managed to read about half of the comments thus far, but I’m with the punishment is utterly misguided camp.

     I’d want the girl to come to understand the harm she caused to innocent bystanders and, specifically, the additional humiliation she put upon her own mother and the other husband by airing the affair in such a cruel way. “Punishing” her teaches her nothing, allows her no self-reflection and, instead, would encourage her to see herself as further victimized by her cheating dad and his whore of a mistress. To me, she’s gonna get punished enough as those pics get spread around her school, as the mistress’s kids get over the shock and then hate her for subjecting them to such images of their own mother. If she has the capacity for empathy–or the possibility of developing it as she comes into adulthood–she will eventually see the consequences of her own actions and be able to separate those actions from her justifiable trauma and anger with her father. To me, you will destroy that possibility if you selfishly and foolishly insist on punishing her. You have not authority, your motives are suspect and punishing her will not help her.

     I speak from experience.

     My mother left my father when I was 12 to marry a “close family friend” with whom she had been having an affair. My father was an abusive, alcoholic, controlling, gambling sadistic asshole–I was terrified of him–whereas the family friend became a father figure to me shortly after I met him when I was 10. (My mother and he–my stepdad–were married 23 years since until his recent death from a heart attack).

     So, me? I was thrilled she left my dad, because I knew she was in love, I adored my stepdad, and I wanted to be as far as friggin’ possible from my dad and his temper. (I’m a girl, btw.)

     My 16 year old brother, on the other hand? He, waxing in righteous anger over my mother being a whore, cunt, bitch who cheated on HIS dad, would go to my mom’s restaurant (she was a waitress) to scream these very things so that everyone present would hear him. My mom begged and pleaded with him to understand and to come live with us, but he refused. He cut off all contact from us for 11 years in our very small farm town. He only came back ’round when his first son was 3 years old (my mom didn’t meet her grandson until he was 3 years old) because my brother, shocker, needed a babysitter. My brother and her have never discussed what he did–she is as afraid of his rage as she was of my father’s and she knows that he emotionally blackmails her with the possibility that he will cut her off once again–so they have this painfully strained non-relationship that is as dysfunctional and dishonest as the one she had with my real father. He and I have no relationship whatsoever–he will not acknowledge my presence in a room and wives/girlfriends are not permitted to speak to me–because he blames my mother for “choosing” me over him and I have no patience for these bullshit stories about our childhoods in which he tells himself that my mom–sweet and fragile to a fault–is this vile fallen women who is responsible for all his life’s failures.

     Looking back, I don’t know what my mom could have done much different to change that sequence of events, but I wish she had the ability to see how much he was hurting and stop trying to make him understand and instead give him time to figure shit out while refusing–refusing–to allow him to publicly humiliate her. Yet, seeing what a selfish, rage-filled, un-empathetic, delusional and permanently victimized asshole my brother is an adult, I sometimes conclude that there was no possibility of things being better–that his behavior as a 16 year was a fair reflection of who he was and would become.

     So, what I’m saying here, cheating dad, is that if you hope for the **possibility** of having any kind of loving relationship with your daughter, you need to do all you can to give her space to process this and hope that she has or develops the cognitive ability to do so as she ages. You’ll know better than I did whether or not her behavior is an accurate reflection of who she has been or is becoming, but punishing her will only tip her into a bad spiritual direction.

233. Letterwriter, share this with your wife and kid:

     I WAS YOUR kid over twenty five years ago: I was 16 when I stumbled upon my father and his affair when I encountered him leaving a bar with his good friend’s wife.

     What did I do? I stammered about the surprise of it all to my friend who didn’t realize what was going on. And what did my friend do? Spread it around our small town, of course.

     My punishment from dad? None. He simply never discussed it with me. He bore the scandal in silence, along with my mother, and my parents are still married. They have granchildren. They seem quite happy, actually. What I did hurt them both. It was stupid beyond words.

     I profoundly regret my actions now. Who the hell was I to do that to my dad, my mom, my dad’s friend, and his wife? All of them are actually very decent people, who knew me my whole life. It was then–and is now–none of my damn business. And it was certainly not for me to spread around. Yes, my mother likely had a right to know from me, in private, if only to protect her from STDs. (Unlikely in that circumstance, trust me.)

     But beyond that, it was my place to STFU. Unlike my suprised stammer, your daughter pulled a total bitch, dipshit, mean move. In time, perhaps decades, if she GROWS UP (yes, dear, at your age, you are not grown up, trust me), she will likely see her move for the error it was. For now, let her simply marinade in it, until the enormity of her error hits her. If she ever gets past her princess stage, she will see that. (Many women never get past 16, sadly.)

     So your move? No punishment. She wants to act like a grown up, she gets to. But you treat her like an adult from her on out: that means she lives with any decisions she makes.

     I imagine college tuition will be the first one she finds a hard decision to live with. heh. Because you sure as shit should not fund college for someone that fucking mean to you and your wife and your former paramour.

234. I kind of like the Mom’s punishment idea. I do think the daughter should be punished, though you could certainly make the argument that she got her punishment before she did the crime. What she did was cruel and mean spirited, and I’m not talking about what she did to her dad or his GF but what she did to her children and family and friends. That’s not cool.

     I like the idea of community service. It serves a purpose and teaches her a lesson at the same time. BUT! Whatever punishment she receives Dad should get double. Send her to do 4 hours of community service, Dad gets 8. Ideally, they would do some of their service at the same time and Dad could show at least a little contrition by working double hard.

     Yes, it will likely take years for her to fully recover from this experience but I think the people saying she’ll never be able to have a good relationship with a man are drastically overstating it. I know plenty of people who’s parents cheated, and a few who caught them, and while it was traumatic it’s something she will get over. I do think therapy is a good idea though.

235. Hold up guys, we don’t know if dad is CPOS or if he’s tried everything to get mom to open up. He doesn’t mention. I think that his daughter needs to know that what she did was wrong too. Her dad started the forest fire but she directed it toward the houses and she needs to know that she’s partly responsible for what got torched. Plus, impersonating another person online? Not cool, also a felony in many places.

     The daughter needs to learn that not everything is black and white (not saying they did, b/c clearly the didn’t, but what if they’d had an open relationship?)and she needs to know that in a potentially explosive situation like this, subtlety is the best way to start out. HER feelings and wants aren’t the only important ones when the decision involves other people. Like father like daughter, eh? I’m not saying she needs to be punished but she needs to learn that she’s partly responsible for the hurt here and she needs to be taught some tact and common empathy.

     In any discussion they have about it they need to cover that what dad did was wrong (in the parameters of their marriage) but what kiddo did was wrong too. Perhaps if she’d gone about it a different way the marriage would have been saved, we don’t know. Instead she chose to just slash and burn and it wasn’t her decision to make.

     BTW, tech folks who run the app/site/blog: I had to sign online and do this because on my iphone 3G when I followed the link from SLAP then hit, “preview comment” it errored out and the ap crashed.

236. This probably won’t get read due to the sheer volume of comments on here, but I was thinking about this last night and it occurs to me that this situation could potentially have occurred even if FUBARD had done his extramarital activity the Savage Way (ie, with full knowledge of the spouses, etc) this could have still blown up in much the same way, because of the kids getting involved. While the spouses wouldn’t be as hurt, you still have the fallout among all the kids and that’s not inconsiderable.

     Something to think about, even for private consensual affairs — any bit of cover up has the potential to blow up.

237. Hold up guys, we don’t know if dad is CPOS or if he’s tried everything to get mom to open up. He doesn’t mention. I think that his daughter needs to know that what she did was wrong too. Her dad started the forest fire but she directed it toward the houses and she needs to know that she’s partly responsible for what got torched. Plus, impersonating another person online? Not cool, also a felony in many places.

     The daughter needs to learn that not everything is black and white (not saying they did, b/c clearly the didn’t, but what if they’d had an open relationship?)and she needs to know that in a potentially explosive situation like this, subtlety is the best way to start out. HER feelings and wants aren’t the only important ones when the decision involves other people. Like father like daughter, eh? I’m not saying she needs to be punished but she needs to learn that she’s partly responsible for the hurt here and she needs to be taught some tact and common empathy.

     In any discussion they have about it they need to cover that what dad did was wrong (in the parameters of their marriage) but what kiddo did was wrong too. Perhaps if she’d gone about it a different way the marriage would have been saved, we don’t know. Instead she chose to just slash and burn and it wasn’t her decision to make.

     BTW, tech folks who run the app/site/blog: I had to sign online and do this because on my iphone 3G when I followed the link from SLAP then hit, “preview comment” it errored out and the ap crashed.

238. These are separate things. Both families should get counciling. The daughter owes everyone an apology for envading her fathers privacy then dumping a huge bomb on everyone (the other spouses and the children). If she is adult enough to pretend to be someone else and destroy the innocent people that didn’t see it coming then she is adult enough to apologize for what she did.

     And she should be punished the same as if she did the same thing to a stranger.

239. I would also like to point out that a lot of people here are using phrases like the daughter “stumbled upon” or “was exposed to” the information. If the story told in the letter is true, though, that’s not really the case, is it? She stumbled upon one (one!) raunchy chat message, which could have been from anyone. She, and her dilenquant friend, connived their way into the information on identity, nature of the relationship, and the dirty pictures. She is not a hapless victim, she is a heartless, spoiled, self-righteous trickster and an emotional thug. I hope her family life was worth the vindictive thrill she got from this, because she certainly seems to have traded one for the other.

240. @11 “You’ve raped her ability to ever have a decent relationship with a male, probably forever.”

     And all the similar stupid-ass comments.

     Unless young women are the complete idiot-robots you imply they are, they’ll figure out that not every man on the planet is ‘daddy’ (or a saint for that matter).

     You want to know what to do? Lay your cards on the table to both your wife and daughter. Explain why you cheated, explain what you are sorry for (cheating on your wife) and what you aren’t (needing intimacy). There’s nothing left to lose now, so might as well have them be pissed and sad at the full truth.

     Punishment, community service, what the fuck?

     The “punishment” should be that your daughter apologizes directly to those who she hurt (in person if possible but that’s probably a long shot). Especially the kids of the other woman.

241. @207 skyweaver has my favorite line thus far: “You are a walking Shakespeare play, man.”

     Nice to laugh while reading about this utter clusterfuck of a situation.

242. “I sent your Christmas presents off to other girls living in the neighborhood. I’m sure you can understand how that could happen.”

243. The dad doesn’t get to punish her. And I don’t think she deserves punishment. She’s a kid and was given a much more mature situation to navigate than she should’ve been and said situation is a direct consequence of her parent’s poor decisions.

244. Admittedly, I can’t properly fathom a family member behaving in so cavalier a manner. Families should close ranks, present a united front; this immediate and willing humiliation of her father makes me think that there was not much trust or love within this family; I also would presume that she would be utterly unworthy of trust should she be so willing to shame her mother and father.

245. The letter writer is a total and absolute fuckup. Him punishing his daughter for what she did would be like allowing a murderer to punish his murder victims for bleeding on his boots.

     You hurt everyone, EVERYONE around you and now that it’s blown up in your face, you want to punish your daughter? You’re a sick, pathetic person.

246. @234 Getting your child’s buy-in is completely different than merely making a consideration for how your actions might affect others. We would all love to be selfish and do whatever the hell we want, but we can’t because we have to consider the consequences. I’m not going to ask my employer if certain sexual expressions are okay, because that’s not their role in my life. However, I am aware that if any of my bosses saw certain things that it would affect how they perceive me and thus my job. His job is Dad, his actions affected his job as Dad.

     Is it a betrayal? We don’t know. We don’t know what he taught his daughter to believe. What if he is a fundamentalist Christian and has been hounding her about no sex until marriage? What if she was told explicitly by them that they were monogamous and it wasn’t an open marriage? To me that would be a betrayal. Like you said, if she was included in that conversation and sat through her parents lecturing her about sins, then yeah she is involved in their sex life.

     As others have said, FUBAR’s parenting is really what comes into question.

247. 241 comments. Really? Here’s mine. The daughter was wrong. Adults do things kids don’t understand for reasons kids can’t possibly comprehend. Prove to me that the daughter wasn’t just waltzing into an arrangement that the husband/wife hadn’t sussed out 15 – 20 years ago. Why is HE the CPOS? Why can’t the nekkiid lady in the email be the CPOS? Why can’t the daughter own up and take responsibility for walking Dad down the plank? She outed him with out confronting him first to find out what’s up, She pretended to be someone whom she was not in order to incriminate, then did so. This is something the daughter must take accountability for.

     All that being said, a simple screen shot and a “Hey Dad, What’s up?” Would have been the proper place to start from.

248. Reading most of these comments it is easy to see why people write to Dan and not you morons – “everybody’s life is ruined forever”. Is this SLOG or the Christian Coalition web forum? Families can recover from infidelities, but sending the pictures to parents and kids was gratuitous, aggravating, and incredibly destructive to both families. I would be surprised if either stayed together. The daughter is thinking like a typical teenager – that she is the only one that matters. That is the reason why she MUST be punished. The kids and the parents to whom she sent the images have feeling and relationships and lives that matter too and it is COMPLETELY wrong to fuck them over by using the power of the internet to humiliate their mom/daughter.

249. Just curious. Does anyone think this might be a troll letter? It seems almost a bit too dumb.

250. I think the kid messed up in forwarding pictures and the like, but FUBARD has to accept that as the adult this is on him. Blaming and punishing the daughter does nothing to fix things at this point. Using this as a teachable moment might be doable, but that would take some deft skill.

     FUBARD needs to step back and recognize he is probably going to get divorced. He will also still need to co-parent his child with his soon to be ex-wife. Trying to punish the kid now unilaterally is not going to help set up a functional working relationship there.

     The daughter was clearly a little shit here, but I’m not sure how to punish her beyond explaining why she might want to direct her wrath a little more in the future. I think this situation would look a lot different if she just went to her mother with what happened and it went from there. Infidelity doesn’t inherently mean trying to burn down the whole village is a good idea, but you can’t expect a 15 year old to get that.

     And finally, be more careful with your infidelity. Justified or not by your marriage, there is no excuse to be THAT sloppy particularly with teenagers in the house. You screwed up FUBARD, I hope you can find a way to rebuild a workable relationship with your wife and daughter regardless of what that looks like.

251. I only got to post #88, so maybe someone’s already posted this.

     One of many reasons why the daughter needs to be talked to and/or punished is because she had no way of knowing whether this affair was something known and agreed upon by all 4 spouses. Could you imagine if the four of them had agreed to this relationship as a way to maintain both marriages, and suddenly the grandparents are involved? Holy shit.

     Her mother was the one who was wronged, so her mother should have been consulted before she did anything.

     The internet fraud stuff was wrong and stupid, but the kind of thing you expect out of a 15-year-old. It should be discussed, but not necessarily a matter of punishment now (perhaps some newspaper clippings of people arrested because of impersonating someone online would be enough of a deterrent).

     But, the blowing up a bunch of other people’s lives without talking to her mom. She needs to know how awful that was.

252. i already commented on the topic at hand way above (punishment or not, and by whom), and now am going off-topic.
     some have said that this is the kind of affair that aint necessarily bad, and that “even Dan Savage would condone or accept it” as morally ok.
     but THREE YEARS? c’mon, i know it is hard to draw a line – how much time is too much…but THREE years? if a partner has to lie for that long, clearly something is wrong with the relationship. he shoulda brought it up long ago and asked for permission from wife to go outside the marriage for sex.
     this guy clearly fucked up by not logging out, and may be a vengeful POS, but he ALSO is just a lying sack of shit with no balls.

253. Fuck that. That little shit outted him unfairly. You don’t do that unless they were brutes, and not only was that her dad, he is not a brutish prick. Yeah he wasn’t honest but if he ain’t getting needs met after he’s asked for so long, the affair is the sanest thing to do. If he’s a cpos, then yeah he deserved it but not from his fuckhead kid. He was trying to be discreet and made a mistake and his fuckin kid took advantage of it to spite him. I’d disown her. Hell, shed never be allowed near me again after that.

     I think the kid should be fined a couple hundred bucks and then sent to work for the elderly. I think FUBARD needs to be honest and to acquit himself with as much dignity as possible and get a divorce. The spouses should be honest and find some people with low sex drives.

254. 124 for most annoying, pathetic drama queen ever to post here.

     (And on a site this gay, that says something.)

255. Here’s my two cents- I don’t think the daughter was trying to “punish” her father at all by sending out those pics… if years of Maury have taught me anything, it’s that she probably blamed the family friend for being a hussy that “stole” her father, and wanted to shame her as much as possible… being a teenager though, she didn’t think through the consequences of how many other people she would hurt with her petty revenge scheme.

256. The kid is a CHILD and found out something horrible about her own FATHER and lashed out. If she gets punished, she’ll hate you forever even harder than she already will. Don’t you DARE punish that child for your own stupidity. Regardless of the ethics of the cheating, leaving your email account open on a family computer was YOUR mistake, not hers.

     I hope she never speaks to you again. I wish I could adopt her. Jesus.

257. The daughter needs some kind of something. If she gets away with totally annihilating two families, she’s either going to have to live as a 15-year old with a tremendous burden of shame or she’s going to become a class-A manipulative power grabber.

     The husband has no moral authority on which to punish, but if the mother happens to still be reading, she needs to make it abundantly clear to the daughter that everyone has a lot of power to hurt other people, and that part of being an adult is learning how not to wield that power.

258. I don’t know. If we try to apply the principles a lot of people are supporting above to a different situation, such as workplace performance (e.g. a rule to talk to only discreetly with the people involved with a situation), then there really are a lot of hypocrites around. At most places that I’ve worked, there is a lot of loose gossip that could ultimately harm someone’s career – about who screwed up, evaluations of someone’s skills and personality, poor relaying of a conversation, criticism of the person who isn’t in the room. This is very widespread. If people were really concerned about being ethical, you would require extra proof before thinking badly about another person or gossiping… but most people do it.

259. It’s this guy’s choice to cheat, and the consequences of getting caught are his problem to deal with. But his daughter invaded someone else’s privacy badly, then proceeded to malignantly send pictures of this woman out to her whole family. It sounds like the pics are pornographic in nature, and technically sending those pictures to a minor is illegal. If she’d simply printed of the pictures and showed her mom it would be one thing, and I would say they guy’s totally at fault, but this girl went way overboard. She tried to use the info she found to try and destroy someone’s life, she didn’t just find an email but impersonated her father, and people think she shouldn’t be punished?everyone keeps saying how traumatized she was. If she was so traumatized, she would have typed “F off slut” and got off the computer. She sat there pretending to be her father to trick this woman, then sent this info out to the woman’s family and kids. If he isn’t punished, what kind of message is it? That invasion of privacy, sex chatting with a stranger, impersonating someone else, and finally exposing minors to pornography is totally ok if your parents are fucked up? Everyone’s parents are fucked up. Punish her.

260. Dan’s right – it’s Mrs. FUBAR’s call.

     Dude, you’re fucked. Sorry. What a little bitch.

261. Top ten things teens should know about their parent’s sex life:
     #10: The odds are 99.999998% in favor of the fact that your parents fucked to conceive you.
     # 9: The odds are greater than 50% that they enjoyed doing it.
     # 8: When your dad fucks your mom he’s more likely than not fantasizing that he’s fucking someone else.
     # 7: When your mom fucks your dad she’s more likely than not fantasizing that she’s getting gang banged by your high school football team.
     # 6: Your parents fucked each other before they were married and NOT just to make babies.
     # 5: That wedding photo on the living room coffee table; your mom probably fucked half of the groomsman before she married your dad.
     # 4: That wedding photo on the living room coffee table; your dad wishes he’d have fucked all the bridesmaids, whether before or after the wedding, including aunt Sarah.
     # 3: Your dad plays with himself and your mom knows it.
     # 2: Your mom plays with herself and your dad doesn’t have a clue.
     and the number one thing you should know about your parent’s sex life:
     # 1: There’s nothing wrong with anything your parents did in 10 through 2 and someday you’ll do them to, so butt the fuck out of their business!!!

262. Holy Shit! To both the letter and the responses!

     The daughter absolutely fucked up here; she’s not the victim, she’s the victimizer. She snoops in her dad’s e-mail account, poses as him, (illegally) obtains and spreads porn from his girlfriend, and in doing so fucks up a bunch of people’s lives. Who taught her right from wrong? Oh, right, so mom and dad and culture generally have to share in the blame too, but at no point were the daughter’s actions even remotely ethical and some of them are illegal. This isn’t a 2-year-old who has no real conception of social ethics here: she’s perfectly capable of making decisions about ethical behavior and considering the consequences HER actions have on others. She is NOT a victim (dad fucking people other than mom is no more her business than dad’s masturbation habits), except perhaps of our moronic social conventions that would suggest to her that she should react negatively to the discovery of dad’s affair. If anything, she’s behaving very abusively toward everyone involved. I’d be fucking furious if I had a daughter and she pulled something like this (on me or anyone else; if I were the daughter’s friend’s parents, I’d be furious).

     That said, I don’t think coercive behavioral systems (authoritarian reward/punishment) are a good way to relate to people who are capable of empathy and therefore understanding ethics (if the daughter’s actually a sociopath or is a 2-year-old who is incapable of understanding ethical behavior, then the situation’s a bit different). What FUBARD should do is sit Daughter down and explain to her that, irrespective of what she thinks of his affair, he’s absolutely furious because her actions were utterly unethical, some were illegal, and she’s intentionally hurt a lot of the people closest to her. Spreading porn of someone else, obtained under false pretenses, without hir consent, is about as badly as one can publicly-sexually-victimize someone, and may qualify as sexual assault in some jurisdictions (and should in all of them). I can’t think of a worse form of sexual violence other than rape. She needs to understand that. She needs to understand that people have a reasonable expectation of privacy. Does she want FUBARD snooping through her e-mail account, or all of her classmates knowing details of her sex life? She needs to understand that impersonating other people, especially to malicious ends, is unacceptable behavior. Would she want FUBARD, or anyone else, for that matter, impersonating her and chatting with her sex partner(s)? Finally, she needs to realize that however upset one is, vindictive action is not okay (FUBARD not punishing her but instead sitting her down and explaining how her actions are so problematic is a good illustration of this, too: would she prefer to be punished by either FUBARD or the police for her actions?).

     The lesson to be taken from this is: Don’t cheat on your partner. If you need sex that you’re not getting from your partner, either pay the price of admission or split up. Also, staying together “for the sake of the kids” can be a really, really stupid plan: you owe your children material and emotional support (and forgiveness for when they fuck up, and advice about how to not fuck up in the future); you don’t owe them a mother and a father or a marriage.

263. @205:
     “Imagine a judge sentencing the guy who broke into his hard drive and exposed him for taking bribes. Totally wrong.”

     Isn’t this an argument against the US government pursuing Julian Assange?

264. the 15 yo daughter got a harsh dose of reality. Harsh, but real. FUBARD got a harsh dose of reality in return. Bad deal all around. However, I don’t think the girl is messed up for life as a result. Now she knows how to better watch out for scoundrel men & hopefully avoid them. That’s what I did.

265. The thing is, instead of spending energy on an affair, you might have spent that same energy cultivating your daughter and her sense of fairness. Cheaters, take note.

266. I don’t think it’s possible to judge how FUBARD’s daughter should be punished (or at the very least, who should decide how she’s punished) without first judging FUBARD’s actions, at least in part. I’ll try to avoid any personal character judgments, since I don’t know the individuals or all the details of the situation.

     However, broadly speaking, if FUBARD’s daughter is going to be punished for an act of deception, then her father should also face some sort of punishment if he wants to remain any sort of moral authority in his daughters life. Regardless of anyone’s feelings about adultery, he did deceive his wife by not making her aware of his girlfriend. I think all parties involved (FUBARD, daughter and FUBARM) should participate in the discussion of what punishments are appropriate. However FUBARD’s refusal to admit he should face any punishment in his letter (since I don’t think the potential failing of his marriage is so much a punishment for lying as a consequence of his deception being revealed) suggests he’s not in a position to make a final decision about this. It sounds like his wife is.

     If FUBARD’s daughter is being punished purely for exposing her father’s adultery in a humiliating way, I think the considerations are slightly different. Her father, having been directly negatively impacted by those actions, should have a say in her punishment. While I think this is a real and reasonable thing to punish her for, allowances should be made for her personal feelings of betrayal at the time (much like the feelings FUBARD expresses in his letter) which most likely affected her decisions. I think when FUBARD is able to come to a more realistic punishment, he should have the final say.

     Obviously the daughter is being punished for both of these things, so mix and match as you please, depending on which is the worst offense.

267. Seriously, y’all are out of your minds if you think this child deserves punishment. The only people who “wrecked two families” are the cheaters. And she didn’t “snoop in his email;” he LEFT IT OPEN. She is a teenager who reacted to an extreme situation. The other woman’s kids don’t deserve a CPOS for a mother, any more than she deserves a CPOS for a father. It’s a shame all those people found out, but boo hoo hoo, the “girlfriend” is humiliated? Good. The cheaters have only themselves to blame.

     And no, I don’t think affairs are always inexcusable. I think destroying your own daughter’s whole world and them blaming HER for her response is inexcusable. This man has NO RIGHT to be “furious” with his daughter. None.

268. @270 she emailed it to underage kids.

269. actually her punishment should be to read each and every one of these comments

270. FUBAR, there is no sense in punishing your daughter for disclosing the pictures to your “girlfriend’s” spouse (or to your spouse). Those decisions are properly left to the conscience of individuals, and while you may disagree with the decision, punishment is inappropriate for that part of the action. More troubling is your daughter’s choice to send the pictures to your gf’s parents, children, and friends. From your description, the problem with your daughter’s actions is not the violation of YOUR privacy, but of your gf’s.

     Your proposed punishment, grounding your daughter for a year and sending her to her grandparents for the summer, is probably out of proportion to the offense considering her age and the circumstances, but more importantly, the lesson you are trying to teach will be lost in what she will perceive as the unjustified lashing out resulting from YOUR guilt. The lesson to be taught is that no matter how justifiably angry we might be at another person, we do not punish them by publicizing private photographs. So choose a punishment that fits the crime, and that also teaches a valuable lesson. If your wife approves, I suggest that you 1) make your daughter apologize to your “girlfriend” for sending the pics to her parents, children, and friends (but not for sending them to her spouse – your gf had that coming.) 2) Make your daughter apologize to your gf’s parents, children, and mutual friends for inappropriately and graphically involving them in this private matter. 3) Make your daughter tell her best friend’s parents about what happened. Use the parents’ response to help gauge whether their daughter is an appropriate companion for yours. Your daughter should be grounded until she complies with any or all of the above, as you and your wife decide.

     Your daughter likely will resent this punishment. She probably will feel humiliated at having to discuss this topic and at having to apologize. That she will feel some small portion of the humiliation that she caused your gf is the lesson. Further, it will reinforce the idea that it is possible to unjustifiably wrong a person who first wronged you, and that people do, in real life, suffer punishment when they inappropriately or excessively retaliate against another.

     Being a good parent does not stop at the water’s edge – your indiscretion does not absolve you of either the right or the duty to guide your daughter through this difficult time. But remember – your goal is to form her character and prepare her for life as an adult, not to inflict the pain of punishment for its own sake. Move out? That’s for your wife to decide. Therapy? For damn sure yes. For your daughter, and for your whole family.

271. The father talks about the lack of respect his daughter’s actions showed. Well, sorry, she has no respect for the dad, nor should she. However, she sent all the photos to the girlfriend’s family, not her mom. Makes me think that she considers this women the problem, and somehow her dad is a victim.

     The girls needs a talking to about privacy and the fact that adult relationships are not black and white. What if her parents were in an open marriage? Still though, the idea that dad is angry with his daughter for the invasion of his privacy is laughable. He messed up, he got sloppy, he rolled the dice and crapped out. He wants to hold a child responsible for reacting badly to a situation that he created. A situation that adults have been LEGALLY/MORALLY excused for killing each other over.

     I bet dad would feel differently if daughter had come across the mother having an affair and informed only him. Then she would have been the dutiful daughter looking out for her family. Instead, he got outed as the cheating piece of shit that he is and he does not like that. Where is the remorse? There is none and that is o.k. Dad does not feel bad about things, fine, but dad can’t shift the responsibility for the relationship, or getting caught, to his daughter. She acted like a pissed off person, she acted like a teenage girl.

     Furthermore, the daughter needs to understand that sending the pictures to the kids and parents of this women, just wrong. However, they were actions of child that does not have the capacity to understand the ramifications of what was going on, at least not at the moment she saw her family’s “friend”, sending pictures to her dad.

     SUCK IT UP BRO!

272. @270 Would you want to find out your mom is having sex with someone other than your dad by seeing a photo of your mom’s snatch?

     Would you want to then know that many of the kids in your school also saw those photos?

     What if the worst day of your life–you found out you spouse has been cheating on you for over 3 years with a friend–was broadcast for the world to see by your own child?

     What if you found out your daughter was cheating by, again, having to see racy photos of her body?

     How long before these photos are put up in school? On facebook? At one of the adults’ workplaces? Even if that doesn’t happen, they all must now carry around the fear that it very well could.

     etc.
     etc.

     You moral outrage over cheating is blinding you to the very real additional harm done to these innocent people.

     I would be aghast if I had a teenager who did something like this and I would be praying that it was not a reflection of the adult she’ll become. Trauma, yes. Rage, yes. Throwing a bomb into the other family’s house because of those feelings? No.

273. Here is a problem with having kids and then trying to hold secrets about things that would supposedly be devastating if other people knew.
     Kids are exposed to lots of TV and storybooks, even if their parents don’t supply it. My friend’s 4 year old has been in a princess phase for 6 months, even though they never promoted cinderella fairytales themselves. Maybe she picked it up from the neighbors. She often acts out scenes with weddings or a prince bringing gifts to a girl and valuing her beauty. Movie plots and TV shows about celebrities often send messages about a spouse suffering all sorts of discomfort, but drawing the line and finally divorced when infidelity occurs.

     If you are either going to have ‘open’ marriage ethics, or maybe you never married or lived with your kids’ other parent, you probably did or should have thought through how you would slowly explain the contrast between your real life, and what the kid is going to pick up from the rest of the world.

     Likewise, if your family has no religion or a minority religion, you will have to explain to your kid how to be friends with kids from other families with different practices.

     If you never discuss this starting with small early steps, it’s unrealistic to expect your child to act impartial or to hide something for you

274. @264 I agree, parent’s sex life is of no business to the child. Maybe I am wrong, but I think cheating is different. The most upsetting part about cheating isn’t the sex. Open relationships have just as much extra-marital sex, but no one gets upset. It is the lying, betrayal and the humiliation you will put someone through if they find out. These are all non-sexual, and finding out that your Dad is the kind of person who would do this is a very difficult thing. Doesn’t make what she did acceptable, but she does have a right to be upset about it, and he is going to have to deal with it if he wants to rebuild a good relationship with her.

     Also, although our parent’s sex lives are none of our business, it is also something we really don’t want to have to think about. If you inadvertently display your sex life to your child, especially something as devastating as an affair, you can’t expect them to react well.

275. As she’s unlikely to absorb anything her father says, and as the mother is unlikely to be impartial enough to say anything useful, I wonder if FUBARD can ask another adult to talk to his daughter about this – someone she respects, who will listen to what she has to say AND give her a sensible talk about why she behaved badly. Maybe an aunt/uncle/grandparent/family friend/adult cousin/non-crazy religious leader. At this point the family’s privacy is already compromised, so I don’t see any reason for them to hesitate from seeking outside help. A therapist or counselor would also be good for the whole family (together or individually), but may not be a good option to reprimand the daughter because judgment is the exact opposite of their job.

     To the commenters who think the daughter shouldn’t be punished or even reprimanded, because “she did what any teenager would do” and everybody knows teens hate hypocrisy – that’s a bullshit reason. Number one, even if this is normal teen behavior, that doesn’t make it right. A lot of normal teen behavior is mean and dangerous and foolish and ethically unsound. When it is, the kids need to be told. They need to learn how to do better in the future.

     Second, it’s false to claim any teenager would be as rash and cruel as she was. When I was 15, I found evidence that my dad had cheated on my mom, and my knee-jerk reaction was to pretend I hadn’t found it. I was angry with my dad, but I understood that it was NOT MY PLACE to interfere. The one action I considered taking was privately ASKING MY FATHER what was up, but in the end I was too nervous and opted to stay out of it entirely.

     I won’t say I opted to “mind my own business,” because anything my parents do to each other that might break up their marriage is my business, but even as an immature kid I knew there was no positive outcome to be gained by my interference, and that it wasn’t my place to judge.

     I’m glad today that I kept my trap shut. My parents’ rocky marriage recovered, and ten years later they are very happy together. I don’t know how they worked it all out. I don’t know for sure what my dad was up to, or if my mom ever knew. That part is not my business. And if they hadn’t worked it out, if they’d split up instead, at least I’d have been able to say they did it all on their own with no help from me. If FUBARD’s marriage ends, it won’t be his daughter’s fault, but she will be responsible for a lot of the mess and pain these two families have to deal with. I’m sorry for her that she has to live with that responsibility.

276. I was a misguided, immature, cruel-at-times 15-year-old girl once. They come that way most of the time. I don’t like it but can imagine doing the same thing at that age. It takes time to learn how to behave like an adult (most of the adults I know are still working on it, myself included). The inclination is to punish everyone the way you were punished and to make everyone else upset too. As many have said here, teenagers have awful impulse control… that said, I’m 30 years old and can imagine being pretty damn uptight were I to find something like that even now. It’s a total violation of her expectations for her dad’s role in the family, not to mention it’d be really a really gross revelation. ICK.

     Family counseling all the way.

277. I do think it’s important that the girl be made to understand that this well could have been a sanctioned open relationship. Her parents’ sex lives are none of her business. She needs to learn to mind her own affairs and not make assumptions based on knee-jerk reactions.

     The fact that it clearly wasn’t an open relationship is beside the point. A third party who is not privy to the details has NO business interfering in this manner, at all, ever. If more people could learn to put their own busybody impulses aside and mind their own beeswax, the world would be a much better place.

     Yes, it’s hard for a teenager to understand the concept of an open relationship. But how much completely pointless damage did she do the woman’s children and parents by outing her? Being hurt yourself is not an excuse for hurting others. It may be a reason, but it is not an excuse.

278. Am I the only one here who sees the behavior of the daughter & friend to be completely sociopathic? This behavior IN school is what causes teen suicide. Outside of school, it destroys families. Don’t stand on your moral soapboxes and “see no evil” in your own lives. Sheesh..

279. Am I the only one here who sees the behavior of the daughter & friend to be completely sociopathic? This behavior IN school is what causes teen suicide. Outside of school, it destroys families. Don’t stand on your moral soapboxes and “see no evil” in your own lives. Sheesh…

280. I can’t say that just picking up and moving out is the right thing to do…unless that is what your wife and daughter want. Stop thinking about pinishing her like everyone else says. Trust me, you’ve punished her enough by being sloppy enough to let her see those pictures. And they’re right, she might very well have a hard time with men now. And she could very well start acting out in sexual ways… People are right, she is going to need therapy, and your wife will probably need therapy also, but she’s a grown woman and can decide that for herself.

     Now, I never Met my dad, and considering how angry and malicious your daughter was when she sent those emails to everyone, tread lightly because I’ve been angry at the dad I’ve never met, but she is probably livid with you! And if you don’t tread this the right way, she might decide at 15 that she doesn’t have a father anymore either.

281. I’m sorry, I didn’t read all 283 comments, but I’ve read enough. I can’t have been the first person to think this whole thing is bullshit. Punishing his daughter is really his first concern? The wronged wife really thinks the girl should do community work? Someone’s having a laugh at all of the outraged responses his little fiction generated.

282. i guess you folks havn’t heard of the new game: “Let’s see who can make up the craziest letter and get on Dan’s blog.” pretty good one, though.

283. @282, it is completely and utterly horrifying as a teenager to discover your parents are fallible by way of infidelity. Your whole world is turned upside down and everything you believed to be true suddenly isn’t anymore. As adults we can recognize the complexities behind a situation like this, but for a kid you turn to survival mode. I know this from experience. It is still a feeling a can feel when I think about it long enough. It stays with you. Also I can imagine finding this out with a friend would only magnify the injustices of this experience even more. You can’ t place blame on this poor child. She needs love and affection and to be told the world isn’t as scary and cruel of place as she is imagining it to be right now, even if it is.

284. @287 I agree that she needs love and affection (re- her actions were signs of BPD or any non empathic behavior disorder, which Love and Affection tend to prevent.) But the punishment should exist as well. And that punishment should be SERIOUS therapy for all things involved. My mind raced immediately to how this generation of teens uses the digital world a bit differently, and much more violently than any other. The reason she didn’t go to her mom first (which would have been appropriate, I feel most for the WIFE here) is because we learn its much easier to be evil, irrational, and mean online.

     Though come to think of it, if this letter is in fact real, it sounds like her *friend* is the one who egged the situation on. Kids have an amazing ability to compartmentalize situations, its a natural survival technique. So, maybe her friend is the sociopath.

285. Also, my sister who was 16 at the time of our families troubles, drove to the other woman’s house and threw a trash can through her window, and screamed “whore!” at the top of her lungs until the cops came.

286. Cont.: So maybe this internet attack is just the inevitable progression((Digression?)) of these things..
     You can not surmise whether this child is a sociopath or if she suffers from BPD from this once instance where she was put under severe emotional distress.

287. Ah sorry, another comment. (and my last since no one will be scrolling this far back anyway)

     When I was around her age we had what we called “slam” books. They were marble notebooks with a fellow classmates names’ written discreetly on the inside cover in which kids would write their often horribly mean thoughts about that person. They were common place enough that there was a whole assembly aimed at trying to show us the terribleness of them. I mean sure, yes, the anonymity of the internet invites kids to be mean, but they were mean before. You can only try and give them enough positive experiences and show them enough love so they can learn to have empathy.

288. I’m with ns @ 8.

     All the punishment the girl needs is the following: “I fucked up, and this is the result. I’m the bad guy. My actions have destroyed my family, and Mrs. ___ as well.

     However, sending those emails after you violated the privacy of myself and Mrs. ___ made things worse for yourself, your mother, and Mrs. ____ family as well. Now you’re going to have to live with that too.”

     She won’t believe him, but eventually she’ll realize he was right.

     I do think he should consider moving out, for a bit, until things calm down… so his family doesn’t have to look at him all the time. He doesn’t have to leave forever.

289. What 284 said. And 292. (Although 286 does have a point.)

     A few points:

     The teen wasn’t forwarding the photos for reasons of prurience. She was forwarding the photos as EVIDENCE supporting the charge she was making. Without evidence, it’s unlikely that most of the people would believe her, the word of two fifteen year old girls making an “outlandish” claim against the word of two adults they know and respect.

     Secondly, the teen sent these photos to all those people in order to COVER HER ASS. And rightly so, given that her father’s first priority, as shown by his letter to Dan, is not to try to repair his relationship with his family from the damage HE caused, but to try to get revenge on his daughter. Now, when her father starts telling her grandparents what a terrible girl she is, her grandparents will know the context.

     Third, the people she sent the photos to were helped, not hurt, by the disclosure. If I were one of the other kids, I’d be grateful for the head’s up on the shitstorm about to hit my family, given by a friend and a peer, rather than waiting for one of my parents to sell me their version of it. If I were one of the cheated-on adults, I’d be thankful for being told what was going on.

     Fourth, A’s business becomes B’s business when A’s fist connects with B’s nose. In this case, a parent’s sexuality becomes their dependent’s business when it compromises the marriage that’s the dependent’s sole means of support.

     The girl shouldn’t be punished at all. And as a man, I think any man whose reaction to being caught cheating by his daughter is to try to get revenge on his own daughter is an abusive psychopath.

     @275: the girl didn’t “throw a bomb” into the other family’s house. The cheating parents did. And yes, to answer one of your questions for example, if I found out that I was being cheated on by it being “broadcast for the world to see by my own child”, I’d be sorry that my child had to find out that way but I’d consider my child to have done me a favour. There’s no nice way to find out that your partner is cheating on you, or that one of your parents is cheating on the other when you’re still a minor, but I’d still want to know, rather than all sorts of **** going on and me being lied to “for my own good”. The idea that I’d be suffering “very real additional harm” by being told is total BS.

290. I’m rather astounded at those who suggest that the mother be left to handle this, and stand with those who suggest having a counselor do it. The mother has just found out (?) about this affair, and with a close friend no less. It is both an unfair burden to put on her, and and unwise one given that she might just use the opportunity to reinforce the daughter’s angry at her father and make the breach permanent.

291. Get your own laptop for starters.
     As a kid, yes that would be scaring… but you need to talk to your wife.
     Be a united front – dividing power further makes you the bad guy.
     This will be hard for your wife, but your daughter needs to understand boundaries (as do you i’m afraid – seriously, get a separate email account for your girlfriend to respond to that you have only on your laptop and the password isn’t saved)

     Talk to your wife…Tell her, that it doesn’t change how you feel about her (etc. etc.) but that your daughter needs a mutually-agreed upon punishment from the two of you that will show her that she’s being a bitch (yes your daughter was being a bitch). That’s not how you treat people and you will remember how she reacted when YOU catch her in bed with her boyfriend at a younger age than you’d like (could be 28, more likely it’s 16/17/18).

292. Get your own laptop for starters.
     As a kid, yes that would be scaring… but you need to talk to your wife.
     Be a united front – dividing power further makes you the bad guy.
     This will be hard for your wife, but your daughter needs to understand boundaries (as do you i’m afraid – seriously, get a separate email account for your girlfriend to respond to that you have only on your laptop and the password isn’t saved)

     Talk to your wife…Tell her, that it doesn’t change how you feel about her (etc. etc.) but that your daughter needs a mutually-agreed upon punishment from the two of you that will show her that she’s being a bitch (yes your daughter was being a bitch). That’s not how you treat people and you will remember how she reacted when YOU catch her in bed with her boyfriend at a younger age than you’d like (could be 28, more likely it’s 16/17/18).

293. Talk to your wife. Decide what the two of you want to do. Do it. Own your responsibilities, don’t just disappear. Punish the daughter? Don’t worry about that: life will punish her someday, by putting her in some similar situation.

     I’m sorry to see so many people thinking the father has harmed the girl here, rather than the other way round. I’m also sorry to see so many sanctimonous, holier-than-thou, yes-I-do-cast-the-first-stone comments.

     Personally, I’m sorry for the father, and for his lover. I’m also sorry for the two spouses involved. And yes, I’m sorry for the daughter — but her behavior was wrong. She should have talked to her father, or at least to her mother, before doing anything like that. Did she suffer? I bet. And she made others suffer, too. Great compensation, right?

     Ah, 15-year-olds… This one makes me think of Ian McEwan’s Atonement. I hope she’ll grow up, too.

     Ultimately, what is wrong is the idea that such situations need to be so ‘traumatizing’. This is yet an example of what happens in a society that continues to be so ambivalent about sex — a society which underlies so many sexual tragedies in relationships.

294. Let me say, first, that your daughter and her friend are twats. Seriously, what she did, willfully destroying the life of another family, is wrong. You are the adult here, and yes, you had an affair. But, you are the adult here. Like Dan has explained many times, sometimes adults in marriages need to have an affair to keep the marriage intact. It is also important to note that you should have been honest and upfront with your wife about your needs and wants. It should have been a joint decision whether the marriage should have been opened-up to another individual. But I digress; if you do not establish yourself as her parent and the one who has the authority, then it is very likely that she will not respect your opinion or authority in the future. Moreover, since she is a malicious pissant, it is likely that she will pit you and your wife against each other in order to get what she wants. Whatever you decide, I highly recommend that you and your wife present a unified front to re-establish to your daughter that she is living under your roof and that she has to obey your rules.

295. Hmm. While the daughter’s response certainly wasn’t the best one could reasonably hope for from a fifteen year old, I don’t think it falls outside the spectrum of normal behavior for that age group. The posters calling her a sociopath need to step back and take a deep breath; it’s not as if she set FUBARD’s girlfriend’s cat on fire and then severed her father’s brake lines. Also, the fact that she was acting with an accomplice goes a long way toward explaining her behavior — crowd psychology, anyone?

     Given the general self-absorbed, blame-deflecting tone of FUBARD’s letter, and his fixation on punishing his daughter for something that was in large part his own damn fault, I’m inclined to suspect that he wasn’t much of a father even before this particular clump of shit hit the fan. We don’t know just how badly his libido and his wife’s libido were mismatched, or what steps (if any) he took to address the situation before he decided screwing around behind his wife’s back was the best solution, but I’m willing to bet that he was also a pretty lousy husband. FUBARD’s daughter was probably acting out of loyalty to her mother, by “punishing” her father on her mother’s behalf; it’s too bad she didn’t realize that she was making the situation much worse for her mother as well.

     I think it’s worth noting that dysfunctional families tend to sweep their troubles under the proverbial rug. Granted, this is highly speculative, but it’s possible that by distributing the damning evidence so widely, FUBARD’s daughter was (consciously or subconsciously) trying to make sure that her father’s affair wouldn’t simply get stuffed down the family memory hole.

296. Have a conversation with her. Speak calmly and openly. Ask her why she chose to send the pictures to the kids. Model the empathy that you feel she’s lacking. Apologize for your behavior. If you can’t do these things, then don’t have the conversation with her until you’re calm enough. Leave the punishment to your wife–from your daughter’s perspective, they are on the same side, so the punishment means more coming from her. Right now you’re the enemy, so punishing her in the harsh way that you want to will only make you more the enemy in her eyes.

297. is this a real letter? would anyone in their right mind actually provide savage love with that much grist for the mill? i find it hard to believe that was a real letter….surely to God nobody is that out of touch to think he would get the answer he was wanting after that cluster fuck……

298. You get to determine your daughter’s punishment. Your daughter gets to determine yours.

299. In an ideal world, the average 15-yo would have formulated a game plan ahead of time for such occasions as finding out that daddy loves mommy but also likes fucking the lady who pretends to be friends with the family, including mom. Now this girl has complete strangers calling her a psychotic bitch, her own father furious with her, and an emotionally devastated and humiliated mom. Maybe she did make a poor decision, or maybe she thought she was sticking up for her mom, or maybe she wanted to put a definite end to the affair. Clearly, dad didn’t see any reason to cut short the fun. And what is the lesson she’s supposed to learn? That when people do things to hurt other people, you’re supposed to be a good girl and keep it secret? Wow.

     And who is supposed to teach her that lesson? Her dad? Apparently, since this girl was 12 years old, dad was too busy lying, not being home so he can fuck someone else, not taking his daughter to a movie or the park or the mall, so he can fuck his girlfriend again, not spending time with his wife, so he can fuck someone else.

     If you expect your kid to keep your secrets, dad, then you gotta tell her that beforehand. Oh wait..,I guess it’s inappropriate to discuss your secret sex life with your kid. And besides, who’s got the time to talk to your kid when your girlfriend is waiting for sexy emails or txt pics of your dick? FUBARD and alot of the people making these posts expect more mature behavior from a kid than FUBARD has been capable of.

300. @293 since you called my reasoning bullshit, I must take some time to turn the tables.

     You are actually arguing that if your 16 year old self found out that your mom was fucking someone other than your dad by another 16 year old sending you pictures of your mom’s genitals and, worse, sent those pictures to other teenagers at your school, that you would BE GRATEFUL TO THEM FOR IT?

     Talk about bullshit!

     I guarantee you that girl has started a war with those mother’s children. Their sense of betrayal toward and anger at their mother does not negate the vindictive way that they found out. This is not a zero sum game.

     As for your argument that the girl had no choice because she had to provide proof!??! She could have told her mother, or for that matter her father, and then provided the proof IF and ONLY IF the father still refused to fess up. I mean, give me a fucking break, the GRANDPARENTS needed to see their daughter’s ass in front of the camera?

     Again, talk about bullshit!

     This really boils down to a very simple life lesson: 2 wrongs don’t make a right.

301. FUBAR blew his dad card by chumming the waters in which his family swims in the first place. And the daughter? She’s fifteen! Sometimes blowing the top off a dysfunctional situation is the only to make sure the rancid interior gets either cleaned out or thrown out. It’s not the prettiest solution, but it gets the job done.

302. @281/288 – The two teens wreaking vengeance via the internet could have been cribbed from some Lifetime movie.

303. @293.

     YES

304. Everyone calling the daughter a ‘bitch’ or a ‘sociopath’ needs to check their empathy. And consider the source – entitled jackass who is mad his mistress got found out.

     I’m guessing he wasn’t as sneaky as he thought, that daughter knew he was fucking around on her mom, and impulsively and with all the forethought of a teen of the facebook generation, thought using the internet would help.

     Everyone in both fucking families needs therapy.

305. @299: If the father’s affair DID get stuffed down the family’s memory hole — a more reasonable way of saying the same thing is that the mother and father worked through the issue and the marriage survived — that is the parents’ prerogative. It isn’t the daughter’s place to raise such a citywide stink that there’s no possibility of patching things up.

306. What 117 said is pretty good too.

307. @309:

     I’m not about to nominate the daughter for any sort of award, and I fully acknowledge that she drastically lowered the odds of her parents “patching things up.” However — and I speak from a great deal of unhappy personal experience — things like FUBARD’s affair can, and often do, get “memory holed” without having been worked through in any significant way. The result? A superficially intact marriage built atop a sinkhole of seething resentments. Yeah, it looks good to the rest of the world, but when you actually have to live in it . . .

     I grew up as the child of precisely this kind of marriage, and it was not, by any stretch of the imagination, “fun times.” By the time I was FUBARD’s daughter’s age, I’d seen so many (figurative) bodies stuffed in the family closet to skeletonize that I was damn well desperate for my parents to stop tormenting each other and just get divorced already. I’m not saying that this is necessarily the daughter’s motive, of course, but it is a possibility.

308. The people who think the daughter needs punishment(including the dad) strike me as utterly out to lunch. She’s 15 and probably just had the most horrifying shock and betrayal of her life. From her perspective, the cause of all this evil was dishonesty, so it makes sense that she would respond by insisting on total honesty and full disclosure. Why would anyone assume that she sent the pictures to the woman’s kids out of cruelty? These were family friends, right? She probably thinks they deserve to know the truth about who their mother is, just like she discovered the truth about her father. Is a 15 year old mature enough to ponder all the moral nuances of disclosing information, especially when she’s just endured something traumatic?

     Regarding advice for the letter writer: The surest way to destroy any future relationship with your daughter is to be so intent on punishing her, rather than taking the blame yourself. Man up and own what you did, instead of finding a convenient excuse to point the finger at your 15 year old. That’s your best chance of salvaging both her sanity and your future relationship with her. Otherwise, you’re doomed.

309. Anyone who blames the DAUGHTER for screwing up these families is a total asshole.

     The cheaters screwed up the families by having an affair that had to be hidden or it would ruin lives. Then the affair was revealed, and it ruined lives. The fact that the revelation happened via the teenager finding out and telling on him is beside the point. If he was going around leaving his email logged in, and his girlfriend was sending him racy chats and pictures *while vacationing with family*, it was going to come out somehow.

     It’s the detail that the girlfriend was vacationing with family that makes me doubt this is a real letter, though. How would she have any privacy to take racy pictures in a hotel room she would have been sharing with her husband?

310. Wow.

     Like others have said, your first priority in all of this is to punish your daughter? Grounding for a year? Sending her away? Cutting her off from her best friend? Charming. I’m blown away that you thought that you’re the one to be empathized with in this situation. You AND your mistress, natch. Wow.

     Not only is the girl FIFTEEN, betrayed by her father, but also by a close family friend, that she probably saw as a second mother or aunt. That’s a huge deal. Much as teenagers might say otherwise, family is everything, and friends are almost everything. I can guarantee that this girl wasn’t being vindictive–she was telling everyone she thought had a right to know: her family and her friends.

     You’re supposed to be the adult in the situation, and it’s obvious you’re out for revenge. Do it, and you’ll lose your daughter. I’m actually not sure that you already haven’t, because I’m sure you’re not hiding your hostility toward her in the meantime. It’s disgusting that your first priority is to avenge your embarrassed mistress by punishing your DAUGHTER. It’s disgusting that you’re putting your mistress before your daughter. Disgusting. Your daughter deserves much better than you for a father.

311. 1. Get counseling for your daughter, and family counseling for all of you;
     2. Have your daughter apologize to those she sent the photos to — the other woman’s children, parents, the mutual acquaintances, etc. — either in person or in personalized letters;
     3. Take away your daughter’s access to email, social networks, etc, and cell phone privileges until you feel she is ready to make better decisions.
     Good luck to all involved — what a painful situation for everyone.

312. Are these comments for real? A man cheats on his wife with a close family friend and leaves ‘adult’ photos and chats laying around for anyone to find, and he’s a hero because oh he made the effort to lie to his wife, family and friends for three years so they wouldn’t be hurt! Well get the man a medal! Meanwhile an underage child who is confronted with sexual material featuring her DAD proving her dad’s been knocking off a family friend for years, freaking out and not helping him keep a sick destructive secret, is a “tart” a “slut” and a “harlot”? Really? Calling her a bitch or a sociopath is one thing, but “SLUT”? You don’t know any way to criticize female behavior without using derogatory sexual terms? Says a lot about how much patriarchal society hates women. Bet if the dad had raped the child (rather than just inappropriately expose her to his sex life) you’d still be blaming her and saying she was a slut.

313. Btw I am not saying what the dad did negates his daughter’s actions. Of course the daughter handled it poorly and did the wrong thing. But all the comments flat out saying the dad did absolutely nothing wrong and everything is 100% the fault of the daughter, when the dad is the one cheating, lying and exposing his minor child to inappropriate sexual content, are beyond sick.

314. What does the dad think the mom would have done if she had been the one to find the explicit evidence. Confront him, kick him out, superglue his cock and balls, cut them off. I could go on and on giving real life examples of extreme reactions to cheating. In the grand scheme of things and spectrum of possible outcomes what the daughter is not all that extreme. Spare me the outrage. On top everything the daughter and also the mother are probably feeling as if their home had been violated/defiled even if the dad did not have sex with the girlfriend in the home or marital bed. God have mercy on his sorry ass if they did. The same is probably true for the girlfriend’s spouse and family. If you question how violated the wife and daughter feel, talk to anyone whose home has been burglarized or who has been ripped off by a close friend or family member.

315. Wow Dan. I didn’t realize how many sex negative people read your column! A lot of people burned by cheating are clearly not the best advisers for cheating husbands!

     Cheating doesn’t start randomly one day out of boredom. This husband was clearly not sexually satisfied in his marriage. While his wife probably didn’t know he was cheating, or to what extent, she surely would have also recognized their differing sex drives. And hopefully she at least considered the possibility that he was fulfilling his needs elsewhere.
     I’m sure it must have been tragic for his daughter to find this information. That being said, she didn’t think to spare her mother’s feelings or that of the other woman’s family. She should be told, preferably by her mother, the extent of damage that has been done; not necessarily by her but the whole situation. If the mother is rational enough to discuss it, they should talk about why people cheat. Hopefully the daughter understands what she could have done better in this situation; I.e. talking to her father about what she saw, talking to her mother privately, etc. Empathy develops with age so she may not fully understand the extent of damage until she is much older. I wish all those involved good luck.

316. I’m not bubbling over with sympathy for the daughter. I don’t see her as this totally innocent victim – she sought this information out and then played it for maximum damage. Sure, she was hurt, outraged, blah blah blah. She still did it to herself – she decided to poke through Dad’s email. Curiosity killed the cat and all. Dad’s cheating wasn’t “nice” – but I think that pales in significance to the maliciousness the daughter showed. I don’t at all equate having someone on the side with trying to hurt people as much as you possibly can. Sure she’s a kid, lashing out, etc. – well, welcome to adulthood. And wise the fuck up.

     That said, I do feel for all involved, including the daughter. It sounds like everybody in the family is going to be angry for a long time going.

     Punishing the daughter is out of line. But it would be a long long time before I ever trusted her again.

317. I’m not bubbling over with sympathy for the daughter. I don’t see her as this totally innocent victim – she sought this information out and then played it for maximum damage. Sure, she was hurt, outraged, blah blah blah. She still did it to herself – she decided to poke through Dad’s email. Curiosity killed the cat and all. Dad’s cheating wasn’t “nice” – but I think that pales in significance to the maliciousness the daughter showed. I don’t at all equate having someone on the side with trying to hurt people as much as you possibly can. Sure she’s a kid, lashing out, etc. – well, welcome to adulthood. And wise the fuck up.

     That said, I do feel for all involved, including the daughter. It sounds like everybody in the family is going to be angry for a long time going.

     Punishing the daughter is out of line. But it would be a long long time before I ever trusted her again.

318. I’m not bubbling over with sympathy for the daughter. I don’t see her as this totally innocent victim – she sought this information out and then played it for maximum damage. Sure, she was hurt, outraged, blah blah blah. She still did it to herself – she decided to poke through Dad’s email. Curiosity killed the cat and all. Dad’s cheating wasn’t “nice” – but I think that pales in significance to the maliciousness the daughter showed. I don’t at all equate having someone on the side with trying to hurt people as much as you possibly can. Sure she’s a kid, lashing out, etc. – well, welcome to adulthood. And wise the fuck up.

     That said, I do feel for all involved, including the daughter. It sounds like everybody in the family is going to be angry for a long time going.

     Punishing the daughter is out of line. But it would be a long long time before I ever trusted her again.

319. @266–No. It would be an argument against any judge who’d had personal data WikiLeaked being involved with prosecuting Assange, but the government isn’t a person.

     Not that I think Assange should be prosecuted, just that conflict of internets isn’t a valid argument here.

320. Same thing happened to me when I was 15. We found out my father was having an affair. Almost 10yrs later, my trust in men is still destroyed, despite therapy. I also found out the same way she did. You have no grounds to talk about respect when you don’t even have a clue what it means. Your actions have punished your family more than they ever will deserve. Stop trying to take your anger out on your child who you’ve already punished, emotionally because she ruined your disgusting secret. You made your bed, now you lay in it.

     Actually BE an adult for once, it’s not HER fault you had to be a sneaky coward.

321. Not thinking that cheating and lying for years and exposing a minor to inappropriate sexual behavior is just fine and dandy does not make a person “sex negative.” The fact there are posters implying the mother is to blame for not meeting her husband’s sexual needs and calling the daughter slut and whore when there is not the slightest sexual componant to her behavior at all shows nothing but what a deep hatred of women some people have.

     Sorry but no man “needs” to bang his wife’s friends and send home porn from the family computer. If he really wasn’t capable of keeping his zipper zipped he should have broken up with his wife. There is no way to justify his behavior, and attacking the wife because her husband claims she has a low sex drive isn’t the way to go about it. Btw I’m willing to bet most women whose husbands accuse them of being frigid to justify their cheating would disagree.

     Make all the assumptions about my life you like if you feel compelled to, but for for the record I’ve never been cheated on, nor did my father ever cheat on my mother. Believe it or not, you don’t have to be a bitter cheated-on women to think lying and cheating is wrong and not a man’s natural right when denied his “sexual needs.”

322. One of the classic examples of when “temporary insanity” may be a legal excuse even for murder is walking in on a cheating spouse in bed with his/her lover. It’s understood that no one thinks rationally under those circumstances. Your moral compass goes out the window, you have no sense of proportionality, you just want to hurt your spouse and the lover as badly as possible… damn the consequences and collateral damage. If there’s a gun around, no one’s surprised it gets used!

     I think the daughter is entitled to the same understanding, when finding out (with graphic details) that Daddy is enthusiastically screwing a family friend, also married and with kids. The snooping was prompted by “raunchy” chat on the family computer… what 15-year-old would not follow *that* trail? And then the trail led to “racy” and “explicit” photos of the “close family friend” and/or Daddy naked… OMG –no wonder she freaked out !!!

     Most likely, when she sent the e-mails to both families, she was just thinking in terms of outing the cheaters to both their families, both to punish the cheaters and because she figured their families had the right to know, too.

     YES, including the woman’s kids was insensitive and shitty. As far as I’m concerned, that’s the only thing she can be faulted for. But I bet the daughter herself now realizes it was shitty, and that if she had it to do over she would leave them off the list. But in the heat of the moment, it seemed like a good idea. And no, rat bastard, given your behavior over the last 3 years, you have no moral high ground to criticize her for what she did in the heat of the moment.

     Anyway, the mom should talk to her ONCE about the shittiness of that aspect, then let the rest go. She’s punished enough by all the fallout. And do NOT cut her off from her best friend. That’s her lifeline right now, you twit. Your only hope of any further relationship is to focus on what YOU did wrong. Here’s a hint: it wasn’t getting caught.

323. One of the classic examples of when “temporary insanity” may be a legal excuse even for murder is walking in on a cheating spouse in bed with his/her lover. It’s understood that no one thinks rationally under those circumstances. Your moral compass goes out the window, you have no sense of proportionality, you just want to hurt your spouse and the lover as badly as possible… damn the consequences and collateral damage. If there’s a gun around, no one’s surprised it gets used!

     I think the daughter is entitled to the same understanding, when finding out (with graphic details) that Daddy is enthusiastically screwing a family friend, also married and with kids. The snooping was prompted by “raunchy” chat on the family computer… what 15-year-old would not follow *that* trail? And then the trail led to “racy” and “explicit” photos of the “close family friend” and/or Daddy naked… OMG –no wonder she freaked out !!!

     Most likely, when she sent the e-mails to both families, she was just thinking in terms of outing the cheaters to both their families, both to punish the cheaters and because she figured their families had the right to know, too.

     YES, including the woman’s kids was insensitive and shitty. As far as I’m concerned, that’s the only thing she can be faulted for. But I bet the daughter herself now realizes it was shitty, and that if she had it to do over she would leave them off the list. But in the heat of the moment, it seemed like a good idea. And no, rat bastard, given your behavior over the last 3 years, you have no moral high ground to criticize her for what she did in the heat of the moment.

     Anyway, the mom should talk to her ONCE about the shittiness of that aspect, then let the rest go. She’s punished enough by all the fallout. And do NOT cut her off from her best friend. That’s her lifeline right now, you twit. Your only hope of any further relationship is to focus on what YOU did wrong. Here’s a hint: it wasn’t getting caught.

324. YOU’RE the one who should be punished, you sack of shit.

325. Honestly, it sounds like FUBARDs anger at his daughter is stemming more from the anxiety that he got caught. His daughter didn’t make the best decision in sending out the pictures, but she’s also 15, and so prone to making stupid decisions. I have to admit, a similar thing happened to my family last year, and I remember the anger I felt toward the other woman in the mix. His daughter acted out of her own anger at his betrayal, and her anger is completely valid.

     Also, she did not invade his privacy. He left his email account logged in. This was his own fault and he’d be best to back off his daughter completely. His attitude is so off base, I find it scummy that his first reaction is to punish his daughter for outting his indescretion, rather than apologizing to her for turning her world upside down. He seems to have no regard for the fact that he’s destroyed her home life and certainly her view of him. Only that because of her, he got caught. And she should be punished.

     Grow the hell up and start rebuilding your relationship with your daughter, rather than trying to be the father your actions just forfeited you from being.

326. He mentioned something about his daughter disrespecting him, respect is earned and mutual. He disrespected his family, including his daughter, when he cheated. His case doesn’t fall under any of Dan’s justified reasons for cheating. If I were the mother i’d buy my daughter ice cream. as for the other women’s children I feel they have as much right to know their mother is a CPOS as the man’s daughter. Oh, and regarding that best friend, the daughter’s going to need the emotional support of the person who was there when she found out and had her rather emotional nd logical reaction.

327. She doesn’t deserve to be punished. You do. You got what you deserved and now you’re trying to blame your innocent child? Do her a favour and stay out of her life. Asshole.

328. ‘punish’ your daughter by sending her away to an incredibly prestigious boarding school so she can get a good enough education to get a scholarship to an ivy league school where she can work very hard and then in turn get a scholarship to law school or med school. This way, she can effectively get the fuck way from you and be financially independent of you in just three years. And good riddance to you indeed.

329. know what? i’m wondering if FUBARD was totally irresponsible for sending this to Savage in the first place. What if the daughter or other members of the family read this and read all the horrible things here? i’m sure they’d recognize their own story if they saw it.
     just a shitty thing to do to a 15 year-old. if she finds this thread, that’s way more punishment than she deserves.

330. Basically? You have no understanding of the terms ‘friendship’, ‘honorable’, ‘respect’ or ‘wrong’. Your choices have, up to this point, been entirely based on your own self-interest, and therefore you have no right to choose anything like punishment for your daughter.

     If you have any feelings for her well-being at all, any whatsoever… leave. But before you go, make sure somebody keeps her on suicide-watch. It’s going to be necessary, and it’s your fault.

331. Has anyone mentioned the fact that the dad’s affair was not just violating his monogamous promise to his wife, but violating his implied promise to behave like a parent committed to the other parent of his 15-year old daughter? A lot of these comments seem to say that he might have betrayed his wife’s trust, but didn’t betray his daughter’s trust. He did. And he got caught, big time. He pays. He’s the adult, it’s his responsibility. The 15 yo deserves no more punishment.

332. And for those worrying about the families recognizing themselves on this post, I’m guessing there will be more than one group of people who see themselves here.

333. Really? The DAUGHTER’S phone, internet access, etc, should be restricted?! No – FUBARD’s smartphone should be taken away, he should have limited/supervised internet access, he shouldn’t be allowed to use social networking sites, etc, until he learns how to use the internet responsibly. He’s the one who carelessly forgot to log out. He’s the one trading porn on the family computer. I bet the daughter, being of the internet generation, is a lot more careful with her accounts, knows how to delete history, etc. He’s the one who needs a “dumbphone.”

334. FUBARD, you must be joking! Next time you have an affair (if you dare to) learn the tricks of the trade. Leave no electronic trace. no cell phone bills, hotel bills, emails, texts, and most obvious of all, gmail video chats behind! If you want/need to have extramarital sex, don’t me an amateur. Secondly, you are the one at fault here, not your daughter. Where is your moral compass? You have been fucking your family’s friend, betraying your wife and children, and not even respecting them enough to cover your tracks. You should move out asap.

335. On an episode of How I Met Your Mother, two characters enter into a “slap bet”. The winner gets to slap the loser 5 times. They don’t know when, but they know it’s coming. It can be one slap at a time over the course of years, or several in a day. NOBODY knows.

     This little bitch faced beast of a child deserves this, and more. Along with smacking the fear of god into her, I would take the thing physically to the home of every person she sent the picture to, and she would apologize. She would not cry – why does she get to cry??

     Also, boot camp.

336. i am a 21 year old female living with my mom,dad, and two younger siblings.when i was 15 my parents were having an argument one morning and i heard my dad yell at my mom that she had cheated on him.my whole world came crashing down at that moment.i ended up climbing out my window and running to a friends house.i could not explain the hate i felt for my mother.she had betrayed my dad,my DAD!she had betrayed me and my two younger,completely innocent younger siblings by altering our lives for a very long time,possibly forever.when i finally came home my mom sat me down and explained to me that what was said was out of anger and heat of the moment and that she loved my dad very much and would never cheat on him(usually being the one on the other end of my dads anger for whatever i had done at the moment i knew that was true).my faith in my mother and family had been restored.
     flash forward
     being an almost 22 year old female i understand that the next relationship i have could be the person that i spend the rest of my life with(my mom met my dad when she was 20).i am extremely picky when it comes to men because i want the love and realtionship that my parents share that has kept them together for the last 20 something years.my parents have had their share of arguments and rough times as does every marrige but i would be so lucky to have the marrige they have someday and they are what i look up to.

     i dont have children of my own so i really am not one to give imput on punishment but i tend to think that your daughters family being ripped apart and all of her faith in her father,YOU, and her family being taken away is enough,but if you feel other wise then maybe you should join her in community service to be punished for your actions as well.you think what your daughter did was extreme,well id say what you did was more extreme and your daughters punishment for you fits your crime to say the least.

337. A full year of confinement, seriously? I suspect that the LW’s desire to be The Almighty Punisher is his way of attempting to save face.

338. Seriously? Yeah, chastise your daughter for sending it to underage kids. But I bet (if you were anything at all of a parent, or your spouse was) she’s got at least some grasp of morality already, and feels pretty shitty about that.
     I hate the whole ‘oh I need to stay with my spouse for the kids…but not enough to stay faithful!’
     I recently found out my dad cheated on my mom. What a piece of shit. I feel like he’s a hypocrite now and that he’s eroded at my trust with him. An open marriage is a totally different thing. Knowing that your parent is doing something that would make your other parent feel like shit, make your other parent feel like they’re not good enough, and apparently not caring enough to fucking be discreet about it? When I found out my dad did this, I wouldn’t give a crap about anything he told me about “sending materials that would hurt other people and be traumatic for them.” Because seriously? He created this situation. If a therapist (I applaud whoever suggested earlier that he pay for her therapy) explained to me the problem with me doing this by sending pictures to children and her parents, I would understand.
     It’s just sickening to realize that this person you’ve looked up to, this person who you’ve thought was awesome, this relationship that you were created from…are dirtied. Because that person was willing to cut their spouse, your other parent, to the core, because of sex. It’s such a betrayal.
     And yeah, I have a crazy high sex drive. Yeah, I understand the impulse to cheat.
     Masturbate to porn a lot. Don’t have an affair. Approach your spouse and tell him/her that you need more sex in your life, that you need to feel attractive. Explore with them what might work–you can’t have sex with other people but you can show yourself off naked online or go out and get hit on, or you can but only with blah blah blah. And if neither of you can come to a solution–divorce.
     It’s called cheating because you’re acting unfairly, when your spouse thinks that you’re being beholden to the same rules. And believe me, your kids will find out. And it won’t matter if your spouse is frigid, sexually dismissive or just asexual. They won’t care. Because that’s not what matters. What matters is that YOU couldn’t find a way to fix the problem as a couple, and instead of agreeing that you both were now divorced, you had to be selfish.
     Ugh. It just makes me sick the level of self-involvement this man has.

339. Of course – The Good Apprentice. Midge McCaskerville’s 13-year-old son Meredith comes home, sees her in negligee, and hears family friend/her secret lover Harry Cuno call to her from the next room. Midge puts a finger to her lips, and Meredith silently leaves. Some time later, when the whole family are in the country, Meredith returns the gesture while Thomas’ attention is elsewhere, but Meredith never mentions the affair until he’s having a discussion of morality with his mentor, Harry’s university-aged son Stuart. Even then, Meredith only says his mother is having a secret affair, not with whom.

340. I recall, at the age of 19, discovering my then-boyfriend’s relationship with another woman. Among my first anguished reactions was the desire to expose and ruin both of them– tell his parents, tell her employers, discredit them however I could. Thank goodness the computer was off and I called a wise friend instead, because my strong impulse (at age 19, mind you, not even 15) was to rain hell upon everyone in sight. There was no logic, no morals, just acute pain seeking some outlet. Any punishment must acknowledge the pure rage, not immorality, driving her actions at the time of discovery.

341. Forget the affair (as Dan said, spare the fidelity lectures, we know FUBAR did wrong) for a second and think of all the stops that girl had to blow through to do what she did.
     She didn’t stop when she found the e-mail account open.
     She didn’t stop when she engaged her father’s girlfriend in a chat.
     She didn’t stop when she elicited photos from the girlfriend, or stop when she had to keep up the charade long enough to get additional photos that included the woman’s face.
     She didn’t stop when she sent those photos not just to her mother and the girlfriend’s husband, but also to the girlfriend’s parents and children.
     This was a twisted, evil act that doesn’t even begin to measure up to a sexual and emotional infidelity.
     He had an affair, a hurtful one and terribly damaging one, but to purposefully seek out the information she did and force it into the lives of others without their consent is despicable beyond belief.
     I wouldn’t want to be in her life long enough to punish her. How you repair the damage she created — and she created it, not FUBAR — with her contemptible actions is beyond me.

342. I can’t believe what awful, sex-negative, unforgiving, narrow-minded definitions people are using for “father” and “marriage.” That father had an affair to hold his marriage together, presumably for his daughter’s sake. At least in part. When I was 15 I was aware of the fact that my parents were human beings and not just my parents. All this chatter about the father betraying his daughter is bullshit. His responsibility to her has nothing to do with his sexual behavior. What parents do sexually is none of the children’s business. And the suggestion that a good parent does NOT have sex is ridiculous.

     If the daughter had lashed out for another reason….say her prom date stood her up. Would you still think she was justified because she’s 15, and the situation is so awful, and she’s too young to know better? I think not.

343. I’m sure his daughter feels bad enough already, after seeing those pictures and the damage she’s caused to everyone’s lives – excessive punishment would just be gilding the lily.

344. 72 and 88. Therapy therapy therapy for everyone, by someone who doesn’t suck.

     I wouldn’t automatically shunt the decision to the mom, either. Just because she appears to have done nothing wrong here doesn’t mean she has good judgment. Try to love your daughter, despite the fact that you hate her. I’d start with that.

345. Ok, let’s take it from the top.

     The dad screwed up. He cheated on his wife, with a friend, and then was careless with the evidence. That’s 3 strikes right there.

     What the daughter did was also wrong, albeit more understandable. I’m not sure

346. Her actions were a reflection of the magnitude of her pain. You will never be able to make this up to her, she will be affected by it for the rest of her life. It will without doubt fuck up her future relationships with men, sexual or not. She will be paying for the rest of her life. She has just effectively lost her father. I fail to see why you are trying to make things worse for her, and trying to make her hate you more. I’m thinking you might benefit more from the punishment you would inflict on her than she would, although if it meant she didn’t have to see your face or hear your voice she might prefer it. Your job now? Crawl. Crawl until she hates you less. Crawl until the debt of not only your own children’s suffering but your girlfriend’s children’s suffering is alleviated. I give it a decade at least. Maybe if you actually put some effort into caring for your kids in their time of need they might still consider you part of their family rather than the person who destroyed it.

347. fuck the brat. ban the friend from the house (even if your daughter was upset, letting her friend get involved is inexcusable), ban her from the computer. 15 years old is plenty old enough to know that email accounts are private. this affair hurt absolutely no one. chances are it helped keep two marriages together, and was discreet enough that no one would’ve known had this brat gotten involved. i’d also like to note that the writer has no way of knowing that he left his email logged in. 15 year olds can and will snoop intentionally trying to find dirt if they’re upset about ANYTHING a parent’s done. discuss things with your wife, discuss things with your mistress, and if need be, apologize to your mistress’ husband. i’d probably say let him get a free punch in the face or something like that. but the daughter? grounded. banned from the computer for at least a month, monitored use for a month thereafter. the idea that people are responding saying he has a moral issue are clumping all the issues here together. his affair and his daughter’s blatant disregard for both his privacy and the feelings of the other people involved are different things, and should be treated as such. i’ve seen people saying that the girl’s traumatized and things like that. hardly. she saw her family friend naked. racy pictures are racy pictures. she’s seen them on the internet. even young girls get curious about porn, i’d wager this is no different. her father’s affair was none of her business, and it’s not as though she saw them because of “his carelessness” as some people said. she actively pretended to be him. does no one see how monumentally fucked up that actually is? if she’d violated his privacy and sent pictures he already had, forwarding them would’ve been (something akin) to justifiable. she was hurt and upset. she went out of her way to get fodder. she sought this damage, and deserves to be punished. she likes to invade privacy, tear hers away. door off her bedroom. make her provide you with her passwords. go through her facebook and email. see how she feels. then talk about how “upset” she is.

348. You do nothing. You take her to a counselor. You don’t give a reason besides “you have a lot you’re going to need to process, and neither your mother nor I have the proper training to help you do that.”

     If you punish her, it’s over. If you keep punishing her, then you’re just dragging it out, and you’re the asshole. You see, the beauty of a spanking, or grounding, is that you, as her parent, are telling her, “this is equivalent to what you did.”

     She did a devastating thing and about the only thing that can possibly punish her according to the severity of her actions is herself.

     So you make her live with it. That’s her punishment. She did this horrible, cruel, mean-spirited thing on an angry whim, there is nothing that she can ever do to fix it, and she gets to live with it.

     Just like you do. I welcome you both to the grown up world where you can’t always fix your fuckups.

349. You may be hurt, but don’t forget that your daughter has feelings too. She didn’t do it because she’s a sadistic bitch, she did it because she was angry.
     You can’t be angry for her exposing the affair, but you can be angry for her sending the photos. That was unnecessary.
     Punishment isn’t going to achieve anything except maybe making you feel better. Just tell her (don’t come up to her to talk about it, but if she or your wife says that you can’t be mad at her then reply with this) that you’re not mad about her revealing your affair, but sending nude photos of somebody without their permission, especially to their relatives, is a horrible thing to do.
     Also, see a therapist because you seem to have a severe deficiency of empathy. You scare me a bit.

350. I wonder what the timeline is for the daughter discovering the racy photos and chats, sending a fake reply, receiving the porn back, and fwding them on. It may have taken place over the course of days or the entire e-mail exchange may have happened within minutes. I am not condoning what she did at all, but if it did all happen very quickly that would suggest she lashed out on impulse without thinking about it, which is somewhat understandable. If it took days that would suggest a more cold-minded manipulation.

     Oh, and the posters calling the underage girl an evil slutty bitch whore, attacking anyone who thinks cheating, lying, and exposing your kid to porn isn’t totally fine “awful” sex-negative prudes, and claiming the father is an innocent hero who should be applauded for everything he did — if you really believe that I genuinely feel sorry for you because such hatred of women suggests real issues, but can you at least attempt to state your opinions without using without misogynistic gendered slurs and attacking and name-calling anyone who disagrees with you?

     I am poly myself, because I don’t believe in monogamy, and I put my money where my mouth is. No one forced the man to get into or stay in a monogamous marriage. Cheating is cowardly. Letting yourself get caught by a kid is moronic. Nothing ‘sex negative’ about that.

351. She’s 15! You do not “punish” this. You can talk about boundaries. She overreacted in a fit of rage, but she’s 15. I agree this sounds like a vindictive father trying to take his screw ups (dude, if you can’t manage an affair quietly, don’t do it) out on a child.

352. @149 exactly! kids are a reflection of their parents. I doubt she cared about the hypocrisy as much as the power she had gained to destroy the one who controlled her for so long. Sounds very similar to her dad, that said, her dad no longer should associate with her (imho) until she says sorry. That’s the real world.

     There’s nothing he can do until she develops some empathy for the human condition of desires and pain, which he nor she has. Therapy doesn’t matter at this point. Only time can heal this wound. She thinks she’s better than her father, the innocence is gone.

     She ate the apple, he left it on the counter, the veil has been removed and lives are forever changed. Nobody is perfect, but she needs to realize that destructive power is an evil force and empathy and love for eachothers’ imperfections is all we humans have in this world that’s worth a damn — in one word, love. This is probably the best thing that has happened to them both in a long time. Everything is on the table now. There is no pretending anyone is perfect anymore. 15 is a good time to grow up.

353. It’s very simple: FUBARD gets to impose a punishment on his daughter for her drive-by grenade attack on FUBARD’s girlfriend’s children, if and only if he agrees to abide whatever punishment his daughter wishes to impose on him for detonating a grenade in the middle of his own family.

354. Good god. I’m stunned at the amount of commenters whose basic attitude is “cheaters need to burned at the stake!” I’ve read a good number of comments and can only find four or five that aren’t just completely fucked up.

     You people have no idea about the marriages involved. It’s very likely that the cheating was keeping both couples from divorcing.

     I thought that Dan’s readers would be a little more reasonable. You fuckwads surprise me every time listen to you.

355. Might not know about the marriages involved, but to be sure, just from reading this letter from a guy that wants to destroy what’s left of his 15 year-old daughter’s life, I can tell that the only person he gives a shit about is himself. Way to try to rationalize it, jackass. You sound just like my father, who was a grade-A narcissist and pinned the blame for his marriage-destroying actions on MY anger issues– also, when I was 15. I hope you and he both get hit by a car.

356. The 15 year old has big issues, if she didn’t already, with trust, relationships with men, etc. However, the main issue is that she’s an asshole, bordering on a monster. Yes, you have to face the fact that you raised a shitty kid. She’s punishing herself, and will punish any unlucky bastard who tries to date her. Reading all the anger and hostility in the comments, I feel sorry for piling on, so I’ll get to the advice: I think any punishment is superfluous. Try forgiveness instead, and hope that it saves her from being someone who goes through life trying to hurt men because of her feelings of betrayal and her inability to recognize her own shittiness.

357. One thing I wonder as I read this is how much privacy the daughter normally has. When I was 15, I had very little privacy. My family didn’t even put on the appearance of giving me privacy. If I was talking on the phone, they’d chime in based on my half of the telephone conversation. If I had to plunger the toilet after taking a dump, it would get commented upon. Even when I chose to pray, alone in my room behind closed doors, they’d tell me I was a good girl for saying my prayers. Everything that could be seen or heard or deduced was subject to observation, scrutiny, and judgement by all members of the family and anyone else who happened to be present.

     Because of this, I had literally no idea whatsoever that it was in any way inappropriate to snoop. I thought that anything I could get my hands on was fair game, because in the only reality I had ever known, anything about me that family members could get their hands on was fair game. I had never once in my life been exposed to the idea that if you do something personal, someone who happens to observe you might choose not to comment on it in order to protect your dignity. I had heard the expression “none of your businesses”, but I had never once in my life seen it put into practice.

     There are a significant number of parents out there who feel that good parenting means making a point of knowing absolutely everything that’s going on with their children, and they often make a point of making sure that the children know that they know. We have know way of knowing if LW’s family works that way, but, if it does, they could not have reasonably expected a 15-year-old to NOT snoop and share.

358. There’s way more going on here with the 15 yr old than
     catching her dad fucking around. You need an attorney the kid should be
     charged with sexting the punishment could be counseling community service
     and so on… Separately the dumbass should move out asap( yesterday). Give his wife
     time weeks to figure her decision out an he take it
     no questions. Yes there will
     always be coulda woulda shoulda but he was extremely stupid
     it will take 15-20yrs. so that most parties can put it in perspective and some
     never will.
     Two people did wrong and they should each face the music. I don’t think
     the mom will not have the guts to do the right thing and the
     daughter will work it because she already had problems
     with 1 or both of her parents.
     That’s why teaching respect and privacy over and
     over again can never be redundant in the digital world.

359. Ignoring all the other issues, and just focusing on the specific question:

     Looking at someone else’s email is wrong, and the daughter should be punished. But both the LW and his wife are biased in determining the punishment. So, the obvious solution is to find a neutral third party, and have the third party decide what the punishment will be, and agree to stick to it.

360. Dear FUBARD:

     Even before this incident, suppose your daughter wanted to get married, or deliberately become pregnant, or get a tubal, or get a tattoo.

     Your response would probably be that she isn’t old enough. If pressed to articulate why, you’d probably say something along the lines of her brain isn’t fully developed yet so she’s inclined to react impulsively, and/or she can’t grok the long-term consequences, and/or she isn’t seeing the broader picture because she lacks a breadth of life experience.

     Reacting optimally to adultery is a very advanced skill, emotionally. So your 15-year-old doesn’t have that skill yet. (Do we really want to live in a world that requires 15-year-olds to have that skill?) That’s because her brain isn’t fully developed yet so she’s inclined to react impulsively, she can’t grok the long-term consequences, and she isn’t seeing the broader picture because she lacks a breadth of life experience.

     Punishing her for not handling this well would be like punishing a toddler for spilling milk. While it’s not the most ideal of all outcomes, it’s par for the course for the age group and it’s your responsibility as a parent to take this into account. It’s your own fault if you give a toddler milk in a room that would be ruined if milk is spilled in it, and it’s your own fault for leaving evidence of your affair right there where your daughter could stumble upon it.

361. He had a “discreet affair” to “presumably hold his marriage together”? Good God. He posted explicit photos on a communal family computer and his girlfriend posted stuff while she was on vacation with her family. Neither of them were discreet, and they weren’t 15 like the daughter was. They are both worthless.

     If the wife goes to family counseling with this guy, she’s much stupider than he is. I’m sure their kids don’t want this guy around anymore, nor does anyone else in either of their families.

362. On further thought, this has got to be a fake letter. Nobody could be this stupid.

363. Being an educator my responses tend to be on the reflective, restorative & empowering side. Being a person in almost the exact situation, but not outed, as the author, this is giving me an uneasy opportunity to reflect. So, as a teacher of middle school & high school students & a person in a somewhat open marriage here is what I think:

     You need to find out information from her like; what happened? Why did she do what she did? Have her come up with restitution for what she did to your relationship with her. Since, what she did was to you & you want something from her (restitution.) Have her figure out what she can do to make up for her behavior. But let her know because you are a part of the relationship you get a say. Make it a dual effort, but make sure she knows you are the adult in charge. Due to your age difference & the guardian factor, you get the final say. In this situation she will realize, like most of us do, that sometimes we can’t fix our mistakes.
     Based on the answers, use them as a starting point, and as much as you may not want to see her side, you will be able to better understand & help her come up with a more effective restitution. If you can’t speak to her in a positive & effective manner, which I don’t think I could do, maybe get a mediator/counselor to help the two of you figure out what needs to happen. This restitution for the most part involves only you two. What you did is between you & your wife (that is not a discussion for her to make any decisions or comments on-when it comes to the restitution). The relationship between you & your daughter is the only one that should be addressed in the restitution. Yes, she is a family member but the root is still the relationship between you & her. The restitution for the other(s) relationships she has, she’ll need to figure that out with them, and accept if they are not up for that.

     My personal thoughts:
     I would almost make her stay. Since there is no way to make up for her mistake, no way to fix what she broke she should have to see & experience what her behavior did on others. You may not want her around but if you send her away she will never truly see, understand, or feel how destructive her behavior affected others. She can’t fix this, she can only make sure she doesn’t do it again. Sending her away almost seems like a cop out for her-send her away she will never see, feel or hear the pain, of all of those she decided to bring into her life/behavior when she acted. Also her being around you, as much as you don’t want that, she will be able to use you as a role model in how you deal with your restitution with your wife. (She is not involved between the two of you & there for you need not share details or talk about it with her but -modeling might be another way for her to learn from this.) Seeing your behavior & what you are going through will be a learning experience & kind of be restitution in itself. She will get to see you deal with your behavior. Everyone has relationships that they have, based on many different interests. And all relationships are defined differently and can only be defined by those involved. She doesn’t get to judge your marriage, she is not a part of the marriage relationship. We all do things & no matter good or bad we have to deal with the decisions we make, her seeing you do that, shows her that no matter who you are you have to deal with the decisions you make good & bad.

     I can’t imagine how difficult this has been for you & to see the effects on your loved ones. If you two can’t come up with something or you’re not ready for that yet, send her away & when you are bring her back so she can than have an opportunity for some kind of restitution, between your two. And in the future hopefully with the others she hurt.
     Don’t forget she hurt you in the relationship you two have. You probably hurt your wife in your relationship with her. But these are two different situations that need to be dealt with separately & with only those involved. Don’t let her or your wife bleed the two together.

     I hope you found this helpful. Take or leave whatever you like. Know I will be thinking of you.

     Sincerely,

     Relationship like yours

364. @359.

     Calm the fuck down. FUBAR’s sex life is FUCKING NONE of his daughter’s business.

     And you’re a horny little troll.

365. Give the girl a medal.

     Her world was brutally rocked. Then, unable to cope with the shock, and in a direct plea for justice, she chose to share the dreaded information and reach out to all involved and affected parties.

     Blame her for ruining everyone’s lives? Please, they were already ruined. It’s just that nobody else knew it yet.

366. The comments puzzel me. Would it have been better if he just divorced his wife for not putting out and ran off with someone else, maybe tossing a child support check in the mail everyone in a while?

367. @369

     1: Her father’s sex life is none of her business.
     2: She maliciously distributed this info to EVERYONE she knew. (She did not just “reach out to all affected parties” as you claim. She emailed private pictures to EVERYONE. To people who had no stake in the affair.) She should have just gone to her mother. She didn’t have to destroy the entire neighborhood.
     3:Nobody’s life was ruined until she stepped in. A three year affair is pretty fucking discreet. The affair was probably keeping both sexless marriages alive.

368. @369: “Blame her for ruining everyone’s lives? Please, they were already ruined. It’s just that nobody else knew it yet.”

     I have mixed feelings about this. The affair may well have been allowing both marriages to continue in a state of reasonable domestic bliss. (Considering its three year duration, that’s a pretty good guess.) Contrast that with blowing it wide open, which pretty much destroyed any possibility of preserving either marriage or happiness for anybody concerned. (Not to mention the “mutual friends” who now find themselves dragged into something that is so, so, none of their business.)

     After having been a 50-yard-line spectator on the messy, acrimonious divorces of a number of friends, I have to say that anybody who maintains that it’s more noble to end it with the spouse due to libido incompatibilities than to maintain the marriage but get those needs discreetly met elsewhere, has no idea what a divorce really entails, in terms of the sheer magnitude fucking up the domestic situation for everybody.

369. He ought to just get the hell outta there. Go f his gf and let the daughter deal with the consequences of her actions.

370. @371

     1. It is when he’s a CPOS
     2. If he hadn’t been a CPOS, she would have had nothing to distribute, “destroying the whole neighborhood” (really?)
     3. “As long as nobody knows, it’s all ok!”

371. Take responsibility for your actions and work on living your life with integrity, and hope your daughter learns from your example and thinks about what she has done.

     If you make your amends and clean up your mess, maybe you will teach her how to do the same.

372. At 18 years of age one is considered a legal adult and responsible for their own actions. 18 is only three years older than this girl, so to all of the commenters calling her “an innocent child”, you perhaps need to remember what you were actually like at 15. Doing something very bad in response to someone else doing something bad really doesn’t work in society, and at 15 you do know that. It’s not like this child is six, and still figuring out morality. I mean, christ, life is all about massive disappointments, and she needs to learn that you can’t just fuck shit up because you are hurt and angry. And it’s probably for the best that she learn this before she can be held legally responsible for behavior like that….

     That being said, FUBAR D should not ground her for the summer/send her to live with her grandparents, that is just ridiculous and clearly motivated by anger, also. FUBAR D does have a right to an opinion of punishment, that should not be the wife’s sole decision, just ’cause he fucked up doesn’t mean he has to turn in his ‘parent card’, but I think that the punishment should be a serious talk, between the dad and the daughter, about what he did, and why it was so shitty, and about what she did, and why it was wrong, too. And group therapy, stat.

373. @374

     Like I said, the father’s sex life is none of his daughter’s business. He didn’t make any sexual commitment to her.

     AND the affair was probably keeping both sexless marriages alive.

     Although he is partly responsible for raising such a malicious daughter…

374. Being able to maintain this affair for 3 years, you’d think you’d be wiser than to put yourself in such a position. But we’re not supposed to talk about the stupidity of using a family computer to send sexual chats and photos to your lover. However, as to the point of this letter, I think it’s ridiculous to even be thinking about punishing the daughter at this time when there are a lot more crucial things to consider. Like what you’re going to do about your marriage and the damage to your (and the other woman’s) reputations that may have resulted from what your daughter did. Obviously what she did was wrong and stupid and 15 is an age of stupidity but that doesn’t excuse her behavior. I still find it ridiculous that out of all the shit that seems to be happening, the biggest question is how to punish the daughter. It seems like a very immature reaction and it also seems like this asshole is just trying to get revenge and cover up the fact that he was stupid enough to get caught. Hopefully you will learn from this experience and learn the meaning of the word discreet so that you don’t get caught next time. Good luck.

     p.s. if you’re going to keep up this behavior of having sex chats with your lover (assuming your wife doesn’t leave you), it might be a good idea to get your own computer (maybe a small laptop) and password protect it (like I do with mine; as soon as I leave the room, I just shut the lid and if my husband opens it, it asks for a password. therefore, he would never be in the position to read my emails.). Just an idea. I have no problem with cheating. I just have a problem with stupidity and people’s inability to take responsibility for their own actions.

375. There are enough other places on the internet where CPOS can offer each other advice about how to be better at being CPOS (LOL SEXTING YOU AMATEUR JEEZ GUY GET IT TOGETHER AND LEARN HOW TO CHEAT LIKE A PRO!) There they can justify to themselves and each other why it’s OK that they’re all CPOS in one gigantic circle jerk.

     I just sort of expected better here.

376. @378 If my wife did that with her laptop I would first ask for her password. If she refused I would ask her why. I would then install a key logger in her laptop. I can not think of a bigger red flag than what you are doing. I’d also hire a PI to among other things put gps trackers in your laptop, cell phone, car, anything that you keep on your person. There are many ways around a password or even an encrypted hard drive. A credit report will show all of your credit cards. Having to account for your time and the mileage on your car can be a problem. Calling you at work to make sure of whereabouts, if necessary telling them that it is an emergency. Showing up at your job unexpectedly. Having friends, relatives, coworkers cover for you gives them power over you. A secret can only be kept if you are the only one who knows it. Hopefully there is no physical evidence on your body (bruises, welts, scratches, bite marks). No smoking, no perfume, no cologne, no aftershave. No one who is allergic no peanuts. The need for constant vigilance can really put a damper on things. Then there are the same things for your lover(s). Hope you never anger them. Anonymous sex has its own set of concerns. So have fun and hope no one ever gets suspicious. As I said, password protecting your personal computer is a giant red flag. Using a work or public computer have their own problems. Needless to say I have given cheating some serious thought. All you have to do is to be caught in one lie for your credibility to be questioned.

377. @376 You obviously have no idea how vile and vindictive girls and women can be. There are multiple examples of girls and women using the web and social networking sites to attack someone. A lot of women never forgive and never forget. Not a general statement, but I seen and experienced it often enough.

378. @380 Geez, a skeptic and a cynic, you have given cheating some serious thought. If you have an open, trusting relationship, however, it’s really not that hard to get away with it for a while. I trusted my husband, so I wasn’t hiring PIs to follow him or checking his cash expenditures for unusual expenses. The problem is that eventually you give yourself away, because you love your partner and it’s hard to live a lie. Or, anyway, that’s what happened with us. He fumbled an answer to a question about what was on his mind… because he was tired of keeping up a false front with his wife. When pressed, he decided to trust me instead, and ‘fessed up. We’re okay now, and have opened our marriage, after some painful (but necessary) conversations. Now he can carry condoms without worrying about them being found — much better situation all around.

379. @380 – also, what does being allergic to peanuts have to do with cheating on your partner?

380. To LW: your daughter doesn’t need your help to realize that actions have consequences. What she does need to do is cool down in order to realize that her actions had consequences. So don’ t do something crazy that is going to give her something to get riled up against.

     To all the posters who have mentioned his lack of moral high ground: do you really think that teenagers think their parents own the moral high ground? She’s 15. Managing her behavior is the best the LW can expect to do under normal circumstances.

381. @381. I’m a woman in my early 20’s. That means I’m fairly knowledgeable on the behavior of women and girls, having been raised by a single mother with one sibling, a sister, but I also had internet since early adolescence and have managed to keep my innate vile-ness and vindictive nature in check when using social media. You should give it a try, sometime.

382. It really makes a difference in the time frame. If your daughter was reacting because she was furious that in the moment she had found something life shattering, it explains her behavior as acting out- and she probably really regrets the rashness of her decision and the explosion it caused. If she built this up over weeks and coolly and calmly decided to let you have it I’d be more worried about her ability to empathise. People shouldn’t snoop, (but they do) and people should think about the consequences of their actions- but these are really the consequences of your actions-your affair-your not logging out when you have teenagers in the house.
     If-and it sounds like this might be the case- you’re a class A hypocrite and your daughter’s reaction is compounded by the monumental fall from grace you just made…well.
     I think her Mom should decide what’s appropriate as punishment.

383. I stopped at comment 214, so if this has been said, sorry. FUBARD has already admitted that his wife AGREES that the daughter deserves some consequences for her actions. He says that his wife wants his daughter to serve some kind of community service. Since most people are troubled by her lack of empathy,this seems to me to be a valid consequence. By providing community service, the daughter gets to interact with other people, see people who may be worse off than she is and learn some more empathy.

     FUBAR however does not think that this is enough. His daughter ruined his cushy little life. He may lose the wifey who cleans his home, cooks his dinner and may or may not have sex with him occasionally. His mistress (his OBVIOUS PRIORITY), has been humiliated and may lose the husband who is (presumably) contributing to the support of their family and may lose the respect and love of her children. FUBAR wants his daughter banished to her grandparents (gee, I wonder which side of the family he wants her banished to?) , so that he can “repair” his marriage without the interference of the little brat who blew his life to smithereens. Maybe with her gone, he can wrap his wife around his little finger again, but if she is there his daughter will push his wife into actually asking for him to DO something to rectify his betrayals.

     FUBAR has lost the right to punish his daughter and his suggestions reek of revenge, not of trying to teach his daughter better behavior. Leave the consequences to your wife and be prepared to pay for lots of therapy for your daughter. Whether her actions were based on trauma or a personality disorder, she needs help and if you are any kind of a father you will provide it. Sadly, your letter indicates that you are a vindictive bastard who doesn’t give 2 hoots about how your daughter or anyone else in your family feels, as long as YOU get what you want.

384. Children should have absolutely no say in their parent’s sex lives. PERIOD. This teen and her friend ACTIVELY solicited information after coming upon an email account that wasn’t either of theirs. The prudent and thoughtful thing to do in that situation is close up the account and remind the owner to be more careful. However, human nature being what it is…she snooped. But she didn’t stop there she posed as the email account owner and took an active role obtaining more and more information. Any “trauma” she may have suffered was due to her own course of action. She then acted in a completely unethical and destructive manner by forwarding the illicitly obtained information to completely innocent parties. I can’t imagine that the children, friends or parents of the adulterers wanted to receive the pictures etc forced on them by this nasty hateful act.

     Just imagine if you left your computer unattended at work and a coworker acted in a similar fashion. Exposing some private and maybe embarrassing truth to the entire office (as well as your family and friends). There would be serious repercussions from such an act. With the snooper likely losing their job and possibly facing legal action. When you look at it that way it is obvious that for her own protection from doing something like this in the future this teen needs to see the results of her poor choices and thoughtlessness.

     She needs to apologize to the “collateral damage” that she caused. Not just say sorry but actually articulate to her victims that she understands how damaging her actions were and then make amends in an effort to repair the damage. That will vary from individual to individual. It won’t be quick but it will be a lesson she won’t ever forget and should help guide her the next time something similar presents itself.

     Don’t ask questions you don’t want to hear the answer to and don’t read private emails (or diaries) if you can’t handle what you learn

385. @388

     Booya. Unfortunately everyone on this forum thinks children have a right to know intimate details of their parents’ sex lives.

     These people must not be familiar with the work of Dan Savage.

386. I discovered my husband’s affair with a “close family friend” via a careless email and I went BAT SHIT CRAZY with betrayal, grief and rage for weeks!! I was out of my mind, doing and saying things I had never done before- or since. I was an adult and didn’t “handle it well” to say the least! Have some freaking empathy for the poor kid!!

387. @390

     Against my better judgment I do have a bit of empathy for that malicious daughter.

     HOWever, her father’s sex life is none of her business. For many reasons, not the least of which is the she does not know about any arrangements that her parents *may* have made regarding outside sexual contact. Imagine if the father wasn’t cheating, but was banging his GF with his wife’s blessing (remember: the daughter had no way of knowing whether mom was aware of the GF). Then his daughter starts poking into their business and drags the entire city into a private affair.

     It’s none of her business itsnoneofherbusinessitsnoneofherbusinessitsnoneofherbusinessitsnoneofherbusinessitsnoneofherbusinessitsnoneofherbusinessitsnoneofherbusinessitsnoneofherbusinessitsnoneofherbusinessitsnoneofherbusinessitsnoneofherbusinessitsnoneofherbusinessitsnoneofherbusinessitsnoneofherbusinessitsnoneofherbusinessitsnoneofherbusinessitsnoneofherbusinessitsnoneofherbusinessitsnoneofherbusinessitsnoneofherbusinessitsnoneofherbusinessitsnoneofherbusinessitsnoneofherbusinessitsnoneofherbusinessitsnoneofherbusinessitsnoneofherbusinessitsnoneofherbusinessitsnoneofherbusinessitsnoneofherbusinessitsnoneofherbusinessitsnoneofherbusinessitsnoneofherbusinessitsnoneofherbusinessitsnoneofherbusinessitsnoneofherbusinessitsnoneofherbusinessITSNONEOFHERGODDAMMMMMOTHERFUCKINGBUSINESS

388. It’s made perfectly clear in the letter that the husband and wife did not have any sort of “arrangement” or open marriage and that the wife was not aware her husband was shagging her friend. I have to wonder about the people who seem so obsessed with defending infidelity as a wonderful heroic act men selflessly do to “save their marriages” that they have to invent fictitious scenarios that obviously do not apply to the case in hand.

     Bleating “his sex life is none of his daughter’s business” to excuse parents of children (remember she was TWELVE when this started) who choose to live double lives and rip their families apart is nonsense. Of course a parent’s personal life affects their children! How on earth can it not? Are you saying if a couple get divorced, the fact that they’re divorced is none of their childrens’ business and therefore the children should not be allowed an opinion or feelings about it? Or if a parent gets remarried, again the kids should just say, “none of my business” and leave it at that? Have you people never actually HAD a relationship or a family, ever? Have you ever spoken to a live human being before?? Anything that goes on in YOUR FAMILY is YOUR BUSINESS.

     I grew up with a mother who was a prostitute and exposed me to explicit sex, many times I was forced to watch my mother and random men have sex and to clean up after them. Gee, I (and the law courts) seem to think that was abuse. Guess I better go call the judge and inform him he was wrong and that actually I simply should have “minded my own business.”

389. @392 With respect, I think that FUBAR’s situation as well as my comments are a little more nuanced than you admit. I also think you’ve mischaracterized some of my statements.

     1: It is indeed perfectly clear that FUBAR does not have an open relationship (which, obviously, was his first problem. His marriage is still more proof that monogamy does not work. And we can’t be sure that his wife has never cheated on him either). I do not define infidelity as a “wonderful heroic act to save a marriage.” However, I recognize that sometimes it is NECESSARY because sexual satisfaction is very important. I suggest you listen to Dan Savage’s opinions on monogamy and cheating because they are stellar.

     2: By “inventing fictitious scenarios” I was pointing out just how fucked up his daughter’s reaction was. His daughter had no way of knowing whether the affair was sanctioned by mom or not. But she decided, basically, to nuke the entire city they live in.

     3: I say that his sex life is none of his daughter’s business because HIS SEX LIFE IS FUCKING NONE OF HIS DAUGHTER’S BUSINESS. See post 264 for a great list of things that children need to know about their parent’s sex lives. I suggest we adopt that as Holy Fucking Writ.

     4: Okay so you grew up watching your mom fuck her clients. That doesn’t invalidate my 3rd point. In fact, it AMPLIFIES it. Your mom’s sex life was none of your business and she was acting extremely irresponsibly. She clearly thought that her sex life was your business. SHE was wrong, not me.

     If you are so “saddened by this board” you should perhaps read more of the comments. Most of the people here agree with your opinions. There are about 20 comments here out of 400 that agree with me.

390. 377 etc, plz do not feed teh trolls–
     how do you know that the father of this girl hasn’t portrayed his relationship with her mother as exclusive? how do you have any idea what the parents of this girl have taught her about how a husband and wife are supposed to behave?
     if they have taught her that marriage is monogamous and exclusive and all about being “faithful,” then they HAVE made a very strong promise to their daughter to act that way and they’ve built up a mountain of expectations. If they have done this, then yes indeedy her father has broken her trust and it is totally daughter’s business if a chat pops up on her computer screen.

     Now, if they have taught her that a marriage is NOT a monogamous partnership, then no trust broken and maybe you got a point there. but i doubt it.

391. It’s absurd to say that her father’s sex life is none of her business. She didn’t spy on him or go through his personal drawers looking for his stash of porn; she had her father’s sex life thrust in her face by his mistress. Only then did she deceive the other woman in order to get conclusive evidence, which is understandable as otherwise her father would undoubtedly have denied the affair til the end of time.

     The poor girl is the VICTIM here people! Yes, her actions were not well thought out, but the answer to that is to get her massive amounts of therapy to help her heal from this trauma. Judgment from the father who destroyed her family is exactly what she does not need right now.

392. Plz do not feed teh trolls, I am well aware of the issues and beliefs of which you speak. My background is in anthropology and gender/sex studies, and I practice polyamory. I understand the significance of cultural values in sexuality and how it’s perceived. If this man had chosen to reject the social constraints around monogamous I’d be the first person to congratulate him. But he didn’t. He entered into a monogamous marriage, raised a child within a monogamous marriage, and chose to enter into a double life which when revealed devastated his family.

     The most important element of being poly/open is honesty. I know people raising children within poly relationships and it works fine. (Not to mention so many kids are raised with step-familes and half-siblings, bio and social parents. Kids are very adaptable.) But the children are kept informed (in an age-appropriate way) as to the basics of what’s going on within their own family and household. The parents don’t pretend to the kids to be monogamous, that would be a disaster waiting to happen. The whole thing about secrecy/honesty/privacy reminds me of the arguments homophobes use against gay marriage: “we don’t mind gays just don’t shove it in our faces.” We simply do not live in a society where pair-bonding and especially marriage are considered private. How can a child’s parents’ marital/relationship status be considered none of that child’s business? It’s a parent’s job to teach a child about these things. I don’t think there’s anything presumptive in the daughter not considering the possibility her parents were secretly poly. Of course a child doesn’t need or have the right to know everything. Flings and one-nighters happen and it’s often for the best to keep them secret. But a secret three-year affair is very different, and it didn’t seem like he had any intention of ever ending it. He had a significant longterm relationship with another woman, not just sexual release. That kind of double life couldn’t continue indefinitely, it was going to come out sooner or later, and there’s no way for that to happen without causing pain and destruction all round.

     If two people are truly sexually mismatched and unhappily married, then that’s very sad (though I still think all the horny guys claiming their wives are frigid and they’re forced to sleep with other women to “save the marriage” are just jerks and their wives would tell a very different story). Personally I think it’s awful that so many people are pressured by societal/religious norms and expectations into commitments they do not want or are unprepared for. I consider myself very fortunate that I had/have the freedom to be poly, to be queer, to not marry, to have premarital sex, to help raise my lover’s child from another woman, without pressure or judgement. But he made his choice and being unhappy with that choice doesn’t mean it’s okay to cheat and lie and destroy your wife and child because a man’s need to get off trumps everything else.

393. It partially depends on the age of the woman’s children. I am fairly sure that deliberately exposing minors to pornography is a variation of breaking child pornography laws. Your daughter and her friend, and only your daughter and her friend are the people in this scenario who deliberately exposed minors to pornography (and worse in that it was porn of a parent). She needs to be sat down and informed that what she did was not just rude and not okay, but outright illegal and something that could land her in jail and something she must never, ever do again.

     As to punishment, there should definitely be family therapy. I do not feel that the father needs to recuse himself though, since I do not feel that having done something wrong makes you incapable of parenting. If everyone who did something wrong refused to attempt to administer any justice, then we would all have to give up on ever trying murderers and rapist, because everyone has done something wrong. What the father has done wrong is one thing, and it must be dealt with. But it is irrelevant when deciding how to deal with the child, and that the father made a mistake is no reason to give up on parenting a child.

     Community service and research into privacy rights and why privacy matters would be appropriate She should have to think about what it would be like to have her privacy violated and learn about the massive harm that would happen if you allow privacy violations. Understanding the concept of throwing out legal testimony that is “fruit of a forbidden tree” would be appropriate, and that if you do not it encourages law enforcement to abuse the public and that that is worse than letting guilty people go now and then. And thinking about all the innocents who were unnecessarily harmed by her thoughtless and cruel action.

394. Most of the comments in this thread are completely leotarded, focusing on the father’s actions and celebrating the fact that he suffered consequences for them, elevating the daughter to the status of avenging hero for being the one to bring these consequences about. Take him out of the picture and look at the situation objectively. If she had stumbled across a stranger’s Gmail account left open, found something incriminating and then sent the information to that person’s family and hurt numerous people in the process, would you all say there should be no punishment?

     What the cheaters did was selfish and careless but what the daughter did was cruel because she did it knowing full well that it would inflict the same trauma she experienced on the children of her father’s mistress. Yes, the cheaters created the situation but it was the daughter’s actions that forced these kids to learn about it, something that might never have happened otherwise. After all, the cheaters kept it quiet for a long time before this. Being the victim of her father’s selfishness and irresponsibility doesn’t excuse what she did. This girl needs to be punished.

395. I’m not going to judge the guy for having an affair. I’ve been guilty of equally asshole behavior. Regardless of why someone has an affair, they’re always a risk that someone gets hurt. The justifications we tell ourselves are little comfort to those around us.

     I also don’t think the daughter is a cruel, psycho-bitch. She may have reacted impulisvely, out of hurt and a sense of justice. We can only really speculate as to her state of mind and what she might be feeling now.

     To the dad, please don’t punish your daughter over this. Certainly what she did was wrong and hurtful. However, this is something that ought to be discussed and worked through. Punishment in this situation is simply not appropriate.

     I would be more concerned about the future and mental health of your family than an appropriate punishment. If your worried about the way your daughter handled this situation, enroll her in a DBT program which will give her better coping skills.

     I have to agree with other commenters who speculate your motivated more by revenge than making things right. I don’t think you and your girlfriend deserved what happened, but I think you’re deflecting responsibility away from yourself and onto your daughter.

396. Wouldn’t using community service as punishment create an aversion for performing community service in the future? As a society, we want to encourage reaching out to help the community, not associate it with negative behavior.

397. Holy shit! Dan is right as usual, holy shit!

     Here’s how I see it. You have two problems that are confounding each other here FUBAR. Problem 1: your infidelity, problem 2: your daughter’s behaviour.

     Before even thinking about punishment you need to completely own your transgression. Are you staying with your wife, moving out, dedicating yourself to helping your girlfriend through the damage this has caused her? Bottom line is there’s damage all over the map and you need to fully accept your role and figure out what course you chart forward.

     When you do that you’ll be able to talk to your daughter about what she did as and adult with both feet firmly on the ground.

     As for the daughter, punishment us almost a secondary point. The isse isn’t that she invaded your privacy etc (you left the goods their to be found). The issue was that she toon a holier than though attitude and reacted to her own outrage (and power drive) to cause exponential harm to everyone around – whether directly involved or not. According to Berne she’s pulling the trigger on a game of “noe I got you, you son of a bitch”, and you are the son of a bitch in the game.

     The point your daughter needs to see is there was a lot of ways to react to this and she chose the most self centers and damaging one possible – to everyone, you, wife, gf, her husband, her children, and herself.

     She found the goods. She could have confronted you, she could have confronted your wife, anything else is reckless self indulgence. She had no right to drag innocent people outside of her family into this. And she shoulders a huge chunk of the blame for the harm that was caused. But you need to deal with yours before you can confront her on hers.

398. Holy shit! Dan is right as usual, holy shit!

     Here’s how I see it. You have two problems that are confounding each other here FUBAR. Problem 1: your infidelity, problem 2: your daughter’s behaviour.

     Before even thinking about punishment you need to completely own your transgression. Are you staying with your wife, moving out, dedicating yourself to helping your girlfriend through the damage this has caused her? Bottom line is there’s damage all over the map and you need to fully accept your role and figure out what course you chart forward.

     When you do that you’ll be able to talk to your daughter about what she did as and adult with both feet firmly on the ground.

     As for the daughter, punishment us almost a secondary point. The isse isn’t that she invaded your privacy etc (you left the goods their to be found). The issue was that she toon a holier than though attitude and reacted to her own outrage (and power drive) to cause exponential harm to everyone around – whether directly involved or not. According to Berne she’s pulling the trigger on a game of “noe I got you, you son of a bitch”, and you are the son of a bitch in the game.

     The point your daughter needs to see is there was a lot of ways to react to this and she chose the most self centers and damaging one possible – to everyone, you, wife, gf, her husband, her children, and herself.

     She found the goods. She could have confronted you, she could have confronted your wife, anything else is reckless self indulgence. She had no right to drag innocent people outside of her family into this. And she shoulders a huge chunk of the blame for the harm that was caused. But you need to deal with yours before you can confront her on hers.

399. I would point out that the girl is a child of one of the cheating couple, and may well have sent pictures to the children of the other cheater out of less culpable motives (teenagers not much liking being lied to); she probably figured that her dad had been deceiving her all this time and was hurt by that, figuring that it was only chance carelessness that allowed her to find this out. She might, therefore, think that the OTHER families’ kids deserved to know, as well – as in, they genuinely ought to have access to the truth that she found. I agree that there’s a whole lot of bad decision-making going on, but nonetheless I don’t think her motivations here have to be bad, assuming the kids are around her age (since she probably doesn’t think she’s too young to understand this, she wouldn’t think they are). And given that she had all these peoples’ email addresses at hand, I’m guessing that they’ve all seen you and your girlfriend together in a social situation pretending to be friends and that she therefore sees this deception as a public one in that respect.

     As to the level of a spouse’s sex drive: usually the best way to deal with that is to talk about it. Secondarily, I would say that – absent physical problems – women tend to feel sexier when they are not exhausted, and to feel closer to their partners if they are helping them out (thus demonstrating respect for the women’s contributions to the household). Best way to avoid an affair? Housework and help with the kids. That way you’ll both be the same tired, and the same sexy.

400. @380: You consider personal privacy a red flag? Everyone needs personal privacy. A locked computer and private email account should be normal. It’s kind of scary that you would invade your wife’s privacy by putting a key logger on her computer… isn’t that worse than cheating?

401. She shouldn’t be punished. Her whole world is unraveling. I think that’s punishment enough. Her father is a cheater, her mother must be devastated, her whole family is falling apart, and a friend of the family can’t be trusted any more. She needs to be sent to therapy, and hugged a lot, and given some stability, not punishment!!! And the father in this situation needs to stop projecting the blame onto his daughter. He fucked up, and he should have known better. His daughter is only 15. She reacted normally for that age.

402. The father and his girlfriend were bound to get caught in something like this, if they were that careless. What did they expect? He is a grown-up who should bear some responsibility for the entire situation and not fob it off on his 15 year old, who probably does not have the best role models. This would be funny, if I were not worried about the 15 year old. Granted she should not have passed off the images to innocent people, but the grown-ups involved, (not the mother), have a lot to answer for.

403. On second thought, what is wrong with transparency? The daughter is a lot like Julian Assange, except that no important state’s secrets have been exposed and there is almost no likelihood that anyone will get killed. Why is the father even married, I wonder?

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