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800 Maynard Ave S, Suite 200, Seattle, WA 98134
800 Maynard Ave S, Suite 200, Seattle, WA 98134
Just break it off with her now.
Bring this up to her, tell her to end break it off with this loser, and if she doesn't want to or accuses you of being controlling, break it off with her. This guy is a total freakshow, and it's turning her into a bag o' shit...and when it's all said and done, you don't want to be left holding that bag, kiddo.
If she won't have that kind of conversation with you, then that is your red flag.
Exactly. Dan's got this one exactly right. This is why they pay him the big bucks.... even though I do consider the 10-fucking-thousand bucks per little college talk price royally offensive. Fucking fuck.
Three months is not very long at all. It's just about the time where people start to show their true colors. Don't issue an ultimatum, just DTMFA.
it's like Animal Planet you. there's some dominant male monkey ass shit goin' on here. and ohh it's gonna get Fa-reaky...
Well put.
If the girlfriend knows about the fake Facebook account, the shit-talking, and the continued efforts to win her back, and she has not cut him off by her own choice, then that tells you all you need to know. Don't bother with the ultimatum. Just leave.
Why play games with her? He can set boundaries by saying "I'm leaving you and here is why." If he's been an honest participant in the relationship it should come as no surprise to her.
You can discuss these problems and work on them without ultimatums. The ultimatum is at best going to tarnish you in the eyes of the recipient. It won't matter that you were in the right. To them you are a blackmailer or someone whose loyalty is in question ever after.
LW can end this real quick. Just call the old dude. Tell him that if he is intent on sabotaging his relationship, payback can be a real bitch. Just let him know that he has the old dude's wife's contact info and meddling goes both ways.
However, it's also possible she trusts herself more than you trust her, LSOT. (Which is pretty understandable after only 12 weeks)
Maybe she knows she's not hot for him, and he isn't a threat to you. I've been where your gf is and for me it's over. We're friends, nothing more and that's the end of it. I can keep him around because I _know_ I'm not going to go there again. Dude's a disaster and I want no part of it. Maybe she feels the same way and knows she'd never cheat on you with him. Just ask her.
Also, stop being so judgmental. You think he was just a horny old guy and she says he was there for her? Who are you to question how she felt? Maybe you're both right, but for you imply that her experience- that he was there for her- is wrong and that your presumptions- that he was only using her and she's just imagining the rest- is condescending and dickish. Your insecurity is showing. Chill.
This isn't Candide, and this is the best way to lose one's sanity as a partner to such a naif. After a certain point, it's just not healthy to put up with.
Then again, if he does persevere, at least the chances are fair that this is likely to be the heaviest carrying.
Yesterday.
Not exes. Not 30 years older father figures. Not 30 years old father figures who are
Still trying to fuck the girl.
Trying to sabotage the relationship.
"There's no reason to make weird demands unless it's for the sake of being controlling."
You're absofuckinglutely oblivious.
Maybe I'm super unusual, but I really don't. If you don't accept whomever I'm dating, and act like a douche about it, I'm setting up some pretty strong boundaries, perhaps even calling off the friendship.
If you're worried about specific things in my relationships, say them directly to me. But, no flirting, no random badmouthing, no "I'm better for you than he is". Intimate relationships are tough enough as they are without allowing people to muscle in on them.
but it's not her friend that's attracted to her and being douchey, it's her ex.
regardless of what people want to believe, you can't have a 100% platonic friendship with someone you've been in a romantic, sexual relationship with. I'm not saying it's always unhealthy or will always lead to cheating, but your past with a person is always a part of your current relationship with them.
Now usually this isn't a problem if the ex is a decent person and things just didn't work out. But when you have a situation like this, where it's a shady older married man who obviously hasn't moved on, it's a dealbreaker.
Cool that he and I had good times together, as per campsite rule, but life moves on. If I knew then what I know now.. I would have handled future partners more delicately so they wouldn't have been made to feel insecure over my old, personal affairs.
that said, affairs do tend to come with their fair share of emotional detritus. i was with a married man when i was in my early twenties, and cut off all contact with the guy afterwards -- but it was really hard, as we still had strong feelings for each other. i know a lot of women who convince themselves that an affair is over when it is not, due to continued contact and emotional entanglement. it's can be a sticky situation, and i would certainly be wary of a partner who was still engaging with a married ex-lover.
however, i do appreciate dan's attitude of forgiveness about the whole affair thing. i know in my case it made me value monogamy (and ethical non-monogamy) a lot more, and there are other ways in which the negativity of the whole situation made a positive impact in how i advocate for myself in relationships and the standards to which i hold myself and my partner. which is not to advise everyone to go have an affair (please don't) but rather to support dan's argument that affairs, like other big mistakes people make, can actually be positive learning experiences -- and that what a person has learned from his/her mistakes is a better basis for assessing character than the mistakes themselves.
49, you are also so right that excusing mistakes about fidelity can in the long run lead to a better appreciation for how it's achieved. People do stupid things and make mistakes, but sometimes they manage to learn. I hope it's true for me, and it certainly is true with respect to how to treat exes and how to be honest and faithful to someone. I used to let exes hang around for fear of being "mean" to them, or disrespecting the past, but eventually I learned that this is baloney. A harmless, open friendship with exes is possible in many cases, but it's impossible when they are still pursuing you or refusing to respect your new partner.
To me, however, the really bad sign is that the girlfriend allows the ex to bad mouth the boyfriend. That suggests divided loyalties, lack of respect for the current boyfriend and her relationship choices, or her valuing the competition for the sake of her own ego.
I also would be a bit suspicious of someone who so casually became a mistress of a married man more than twice her age and lacks any sense of self-reflection about that save "he was there for me in a bad time." That strikes me as troubling, too.
I also would proceed with caution with a woman who maintains such close and regular contact with someone she knows still wants her. That doesn't speak well of her, either.
So, yeah, red flags galore here about maturity, awareness and character. Good luck!
Get over it.
I don't see much hope for it myself. There is only a small chance it will work out. Too many red flags. Too many signs of emotional immaturity and continuing attachment in the girl. I think it is probably easier for him and her if he cuts the ties now rather than after dating 5-6 months. But if he really sees a possible future, he should go for it.
Ultimatums are generally bad, but you are allowed one in any relationship, with respect to conduct that is so bothersome to you that breaking up is the alternative.
This young woman needs a valuable lesson in self-respect and how to respect one's partner. I hope that, however this turns out, she is able to learn that lesson in a meaningful way that will help her as she goes forward with dating and relationships.
P.S. WTF at "she has fooled around with him several other times since the affair ended". Dude, if she fooled around with him, the affair hadn't ended.
I'd say there's enough red flags the guy will be exiting sooner or later.
to be fair, it's possible that, as a teenage girl going through rough times, she thought he was "there for her" when all he was doing was listening to her cry so that he could have sex with her. it's not like teenage girls are exactly difficult to manipulate emotionally.
C'mon, sure you can. I have a couple of old boyfriends who are 100 percent platonic friends. Our relationship has morphed into friendship, and we never think about the fact that we were once involved -- and yes, I'm very sure they don't want to get into my pants.
i'm just saying that if your past with someone wasn't 100% platonic, your current relationship with them can't be, even if it's 100% physically platonic and you don't want to sleep with them anymore.
when you date someone and you're in a romantic & sexual relationship with them, you share a part of yourself that's only shared in that kind of relationship, regardless of the degree of seriousness (i'm assuming we're not talking one-night-stands or one week flings). your platonic friends will never know you the way someone you dated intimately does. not better, just a different way.
but that means your friendship with friends you have dated is less platonic than with the ones you have.
So she was not even an adult, and he was 30 years older than she was, meaning that it's likely there was a vast power imbalance in the relationship. And now, three years later, she's probably got a sense that it was kinda icky, but I'm not surprised she's having trouble being strong enough to tell him to fuck off. I didn't sleep with, well, anyone at that age, but I had plenty of older men (teachers, mentors, etc.) that I was (platonically) close to, and at 24, even if one of them had been icky, I would have had trouble telling him to go away. Relationships with men very much your seniors, even when they're platonic, are very powerful influences in your life when you're a woman just entering adulthood. Especially if, as the girlfriend says, the man in question was someone who helped you out when you were vulnerable.
The LW should give her an ultimatum ("I'm not going to tell you who you can be friends with, but this guy is clearly trying very hard to be more than friends, so it's him or it's me") but I think calling her a bitch and saying he should just dump her (he doesn't mention whether he's told her how much it bothers him) is over the top.
If she is less trusting now than when she dated COD, then what would normally be the greater validation of dating her now is diminished by the access COD currently enjoys. LSOT's accomplishment is carrying COD's access to the girlfriend.
If she is more trusting now than when she dated COD, then LSOT receives no relief from constantly dealing with the greater validation COD received.
So COD isn't a casual imposition on LSOT's relationship.
Someone in their late forties hovering around a "troubled" girl in her mid-teens is looking for a wounded deer, not a stable relationship.
Exactly, my Wizard People friend. What matters is that he's CONTINUING to be manipulative to get laid. That's where his original intentions are exposed.
A 54 year old guy who wants to fuck a 24 year old girl? Interesting...can't say I've ever heard of that before.
You know he's still getting in her pants otherwise why would GF put up with COD's bullsh*t? She wouldn't. Not only did she fool around behind the backs of previous boyfriends, she's fooling around behind yours too. She wants her old sugar daddy and a her age appropriate, 28yr old stud-boy. Unless you're into polyamory, DTMFA.
Never thought I'd be so happy to have a house flood. My home has never smelled better.
You make up some set of rules: you can't sleep with these people, or kiss those people, or go out alone with him after dark, or watch porn, or ...
But your relationship is your own, and hers. You define the boundaries however you (plural) want--and then try to live by them, and renegotiate when necessary. Isn't that how these things work? (I admit I'm a bit out of practice.) But if her maintaining a friendship with a CPOS is a showstopper for you, then that needs to be in the "contract." Personally I think that's weird, but then so is monogamy. What matters is whether you're both interested in working towards the point at which the relationship's boundaries are mutually acceptable.
These things take time. An ultimatum is abrupt and will probably break more than it fixes: she'll feel bullied, and that's no way to construct a meaningful relationship (at least I don't see anything about an ultimatum-safeword). But if you two have no intention of working towards a mutually satisfactory compromise, then dump her ASAP.