Seriously, right? Instead of the trattoria down in Brooklyn, here in Seattle mobs of red rimmed bicyclists schedule executions in coffee houses.

"This is for the bad SIFF review..bang..bang!"

"The house that you and your 5 buddies from college live is dead to me...Dead To Me!"


You can't expect rare events to be evenly distributed. In 2011, for the same period of the year, we had a homicide rate of .02 a day. For the rest of 2011, the rate was .08 a day. That works out to .055 over the course of the year. Lets say that the true rate is somewhere around there, .06. So far this year we've had a rate of .127. However, we expect regression to the mean, and to have the future rate be about our average of .06. That means we would expect there to be around 13 more homicides for the rest of the year. for a total of 32. It may seem like a lot, but that less than a 2% change and not really enough to be statistically significant.
@102 Hipster humor, eh? That's some cutting edge stuff!
@102 your inability to turn off the 'jokes' just shows what a complete dip shit you are.
What #78 said.
Seriously @102 - wtf is wrong with you?
@107 He's a pig.
@95 I take it you don't understand the difference between "public forum" and "license to act like an antisocial piece of shit."
@108 I think Bailo must land somewhere on the autistic spectrum, his last comment really showed an inability to read the situation.
I knew them... jesus fuck.
RIP Schmoozi :(
i'm really sorry for the victims, their family, friends and all who were present during the violence. what a tragedy.

Fuck off Bailo. You are a terrible person.
@87 - Fuck you and your 'no true Scotsman' fallacies.

Guns make it infinitely easier to kill someone when you're angry. No cool down period, no time for reflection. Takes less than a second to pull a trigger.

So fuck your knife analogy (unless you're attacking an unconscious person, it's really hard to stab someone who's trying to defend themselves) fuck your car analogy (when you can ride a bullet to work you can use it). Fuck your 'if someone wants to kill someone they'll do it' (see: guns make it easier to kill people). Fuck your racist hillbilly NRA. Fuck the lawmakers who put loopholes in the gun control laws to let murderers and psychopaths pick up any weapon they want. Fuck your misreading of the constitution. Fuck your lack of historical understanding. Fuck you for thinking YOU matter more than the asshole standing on the street who catches YOUR fucking bullet because he was in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Fuck you for making these situations so depressingly common in this country.

Fuck your fear. Fuck your cowardice. Fuck you, fuck you, fuck you, and literally every person like you. Your pathetic gun obsession makes this a worse country to be in.
@109 I know all too well. That's why it perplexes me why perfectly reasonable people expect the stupidity and cruelty typically seen in this and other forums to suddenly stop, just because you personally know someone involved in the tragedy.
They say in this article that they were both members of God's Favorite Beefcake.…

RIP, it was truly good to know ya.
SPD comments translation: We Are Trying To Blackmail The City Over Our Own Behavior.
The meme discussed (and not endorsed) in the 2:39 pm update is magical thinking. "If only the police tased more pregnant ladies, there would be fewer random shootings!" On second thought, perhaps "magical thinking" is too charitable. It's the thinking of the totalitarian: the only way to maintain order is through random acts of official violence and through fear. Oderint dum metuant.

@95, happy to meet up and debate it in person.
@115 is correct. There is no Undo button in real life.
I should also add that it's morally abhorrent to use a tragedy whose causes we don't know to make a dubious political point. Obviously.
If cops killed more wood-carving artists, there would be less gun violence. Yes, this is a compelling point.
Snarky snarky jokey joke? Nice to get clarification on which of the forum regulars have personality disorders. I'll never hear you in the same way again.
Two the fatalities were Drew and Joe from Gad's Favorite Beefcake... Circus Contraption fans will remember Drew (Shmootzie the Clod ) for his amazing multi-instrumental musicianship, distinctive singing voice and overall presence
@123 We all know wood carving is a gateway crime.
One thing to note, if we're going to fire up a gun debate (which I continue to discourage until heads have cooled) is that the current gun laws have always been present. So why then is the murder rate spiking now? Why didn't it spike years ago? Why was it lower in previous years?

The problem is not just a matter of gun laws, because the gun laws have been the same, including during safer times.
@116, I personally didn't know the victims, although I know people who knew them, so I guess this incident seems a tad more immediate to me than most such incidents. I kind of see your point.

To my mind, using news of any violent crime as an occasion for spewing off-topic (ignorant, racist) vitriol is an indication that you're a garden-variety internet asshole. But doing it when the violent crime in question happened in the local community and many people in the forum knew the victims...That really takes a special kind of asshole. In fact, it suggests a shocking lack of any normal level of human empathy.

Being that a lurk around here enough to be familiar with the antics of the anonymous troll, I'm not all that surprised.... I guess I was just making the point that that sort of trolling is particularly unacceptable, given the circumstances.
When is the white community going to step up and take responsibility for these crimes perpetrated by its members? *crickets*

But truly, this is awful.
115. Step away from the computer, because you're definitely not in the right frame of mind to discuss guns or any other issue. In fact, given emotions riding high this is definitely the wrong time to be discussing the gun issue at all, because reason disappears when you're hurt and angry.
@122 According to who's moral code?

None that conservatives honor. They use the shock doctrine to grab power, avoid accountability, and dodge reform.

Our police force is arguably a conservative organization. I don't discount the tragedy and pain for the families involved today one bit. I merely point out that there can be an agenda in the messaging around these things.

What I will admit to discounting is the need of some people in these comments to appropriate the victimhood of other people...and get suckered in the process. Were you not alive for the past 10 years? You can feel for other people and still ask questions. An inability to do so is not the moral high ground, it's an intellectual deficiency.

None of these people have offered a convincing argument how SPDs Twitter post was particularly effective at keeping anyone safe, though they bleat on about me being an asshole. The closest we've gotten is @85, but @85 attributes a straw man argument to me.

To @85, I've not said that police forces are useless. Quite the contrary, I want it to be useful while obeying the law in the performance of its duties. Further, yes, actually police can be expected to go around with a bullhorn telling people to stay indoors. It's pretty routine stuff when someone is loose in a specific area, even if their exact location is not known. And saying that does not mean that I'm not sorry that you are being inconvenienced...even, or that I am not happy you are safe.

@79 has suggested that friends called friends in the area. That's great, but not a conclusive argument that the call actually did anything more than what the police in the area already could do. Guess what. The police in the area had already locked down Roosevelt. The parents with children there weren't going to get anywhere near if they tried. Because the police there were actually doing their job. Am I full of shit? Or are you full of stupid? Being belligerent while being wrong doesn't make you right. Take your outrage and shove it.

It's pretty obviously the local media is loving the 'shooting rampage' headline. (It helps that white people are getting shot in these incidents, rather than blacks. That's not hyperbole. Again, see Westneat's column on what other shooting stories have happened lately and not made headlines.) Ditto for the SPD who will find it useful. Yes, we are having a blip of shootings (which would probably be less likely to be a problem in the first place if we had stricter gun control laws), but @103 makes a good point about statistics. The blip is horrible and happening, but this statistical anomaly doesn't mean we are in the midst of a persistent trend. Could be. But could just as easily not be. None of us know. Though the people prone to hysteria will pretend like they do.

Oh, and one way it could become an established trend is when sickos see headlines and want the same attention. So good job hysterics. By eating up the news and appropriating other people's pain, you are probably making it more likely to happen again. Bravo. But hey, if it makes you feel better to shout me down, keep going.

@115: Could not have expresse it better.

@127: The shitty economy persisting for so many years has created an army of ever-more desperate and anxious people. The fuckwit fringe of these will lash out, and if guns are ubiquitous like water, it will be with deadly effect.

So sad for the victims, their families & friends.
"We all know wood carving is a gateway crime."

I guess you didn't read John Trouble Williams long criminal history including domestic assault, assault with a weapon etc. etc. etc. 

But go ahead, sh*t on the SPD, but next time you're with your hipster homeys in a cafe and one of your friends comes in and shoots you, call an anarchist for help.
@133, did the cops stop this? No? Then shut up.
@127-- I think it's important to note that the murder rate is not spiking. We are obviously having a spate of gun-related incidents right now, but there is no evidence that this is anything more than a number of random events with coincidental timing. Simply because there are 20 homicides so far this year does not mean that we will necessarily have 40+ at the year's end.

It's not unlike a baseball player who hits around .300 every year. At some point in the season that hitter will have a series where he'll go 10 for 15 or something, or he'll go on a 25-game hitting streak or whatever. At the end of the year, though, his batting average is still around .300.

Anyway, the point is not to be nitpicky on the numbers but to say that there really isn't a discussion to be had about "the murder rate spiking" because there isn't yet an evidence of an increase in the rate over time, just a collection of events very close together.
"The shitty economy persisting for so many years has created an army of ever-more desperate and anxious people. The fuckwit fringe of these will lash out, and if guns are ubiquitous like water, it will be with deadly effect."

You're blaming the 99%?
132. A question worth exploring: If a person can't afford food, rent and other necessities, how can they afford guns and ammo? BTW ammunition is not cheap.
According to SPD data, today's four killings (so far) bring Seattle's year-to-date handgun homicide total to 20.
By this time last year, there had only been three.
That is an increase of over 650%.

You'll want to check your math on this one. Or better yet use an online calculator.

(And yes, I realize this is trivial under the circumstances but figured you'd want to get your facts in order.)
I hope that person in the chair in the first pic isn't the person on the ground in the 2nd photo.
What's the point of Goldy's 3:43 update? We have no information about this murderer, so trying to pin this horror on Chopp at this point is tasteless political posturing.
Officer-involved shooting at 37th & Raymond. GSW to the head. I heard "Suspect down."
Yeah I heard on the scanner that the thing in SW Seattle was police related or did I mishear that? Possibly it was the Town Hall shooter?
142. Well, it's Ralph Fascitelli's posturing, so you might want to get mad at him if you're not cool with it. Goldy's just relaying words from a guy who likely went out of his way to come to the scene and vent to Goldy.
seattle police back-tracking, saying it might be self-inflicted...
They said it was a self-inflicted fatal wound of the Cafe Racer suspect ...
Jesus Fucking Christ
I also just literally heard this:

Officer 1: "Are you at the precinct?" Officer 2: "No, we're at happy hour."

Self inflicted and probably the Cafe Racer murderer.
Fucking committed suicide, the fucking coward.
145: A lot of people are venting, but I doubt Goldy is going to report somebody's pro-gun venting. There's no point to reporting this quote besides trying to inject Goldy's personal anti-gun views. Let's find out the hows and whys before we engage in the typical American "someone must be blamed" behavior.
holy shit. do the suicide part first, asshole. suicide FIRST. yeah, what a fucking coward.
... agony.
I hope the fucker survives as a vegetable.
Why is everyone fleeing to West Seattle. I live hear and can attest it's hard to get in and out of. Not the best place for a getaway.
@141, cops didn't stop it or catch the guy. They tweeted about it, got dressed up in gear, and ran all over town and will likely hold a press conference when it's over. Shall we give them a standing ovation? A gold star and a cookie?
Maybe this makes me a bad person, but I can't feel a bit of sympathy for the shooter. My only sadness at his death is that he can't bleed to death multiple times, once for each life he ruined today. Fuck him and his self-centered, murderous temper-tantrum.
@131: Oh you wish you could even come close to making me 'outraged.' Nothing in my post indicates any type of anger, except maybe saying you're full of shit. But that was just to push your buttons, which . . . hey, success!
@157, we should be reassured that they are all over this. Listen to the scanner. There's rarely been silence since this happened. The entire police department isn't sitting on twitter.

Also, yes they will hold a press conference (at 5pm) to let everyone know what happened. They're doing their jobs and informing the public. They don't deserve anything special, but they at lease deserve to not have cynical lazy people pretend to know how to do police work.

I'm annoyed at SPD right now too, but they're actually doing their jobs. They found the shooter in a geographically large city.

Let's lose the cynicism on this right now. People died. Remember that. This is horrible.
160. SPD did their jobs once he got away and they had to hunt him down. But it appears they were in a position to apprehend him immediately after the shooting (possibly even before) and they didn't finish.
@161 Jesus, get some psychotherapy already.
Why do people want to defend criminals? I agree that this is probably because SPD's got the kid gloves on as a result of the bad press. It's well known that NYC got cleaned up because cops didn't let a runny nose go by without a skull cracking. You get the little crimes and you get the big ones at the same time.

Nobody frisks me sitting in the sun at the park, going to the grocery store or on my way out of the dentist. People skulking around with a little "extra Y" (if you know what I mean), gang bangers and disrespectful teenagers all can use a little frisking -- and that doesn't mean it's a police state. And as far as cops catching someone in the midst of a crime, "excessive force" is just a canard. If you're prepared to commit a crime, it's a contract with the universe, as far as I'm concerned, to expect the jackboot, the cranky homeowner with the double-barrel, etc.

These shootings are by gangs, creepy assholes and thieves. They're not the act of some seemingly normal individual who decided to pop someone. You keep your eye on the cross-eyed fuckers with the runny noses -- you keep massacres from happening.

That said, they should have just tased the woodcarver -- that was a dumb decision. Just sayin'.
and people wonder why i live on the eastside.

The SPD/police are unquestionable heroes. Whether they're dealing with filthy, scumfuck "woodcarvers" or shooting suspects they deserve our respect. It's too bad they have to serve an increasingly hostile, ungrateful city.
@166 Yeah, tazing a pregnant woman. They get mad props, yo! I'm sure she was all up in his grill not signing that ticket and not getting out of the car!
@167 I forgot about them tazing that mouthy, speeding ghetto bitch. No police lotto payout for her dumb ass.
Very sad...what a tragedy.

That said, Clark continued, "We are frustrated by the easy access to firearms and people resorting to the use of firearms."

As a society, we want access to firearms and as long as that's what we want, numerous people, unfortunately, are going to pay the price for that access every year.

@165 - nothing like that would ever happen on the Eastside, right?…
STFU, for crying out loud. People are dead. The shooter included, apparently. This is no time for the bile to come out. A litte respect please.
Wow, just in case we ever forget what kind of racist subhumans live under the rocks of Seattle...the comments on Slog will always remind us. Condolences to those hurt today. SPD must agree to DOJ guidelines to become functional. A functional department does not cry every time it makes an error, such as letting the shooter escape to kill again. That's the whine of the police union I hear.

This one is so bad even USA Today is reporting it.…

I'm so sorry for the family, friends, and co-workers of those killed, and anyone whose life feels turned upside down by today's tragedies.

I'm deeply troubled by the description of the latest events (apparent suicide as police closed in). Suspect and SWAT officers in visual contact, suspect presumably holding a gun and has the time and space to kneel in the middle of the street and shoot himself in the head?

I can understand law enforcement considering the threat to passersby, but what about the possibility that they had a high level of confidence that the man with the gun was the prime suspect in the attacks earlier today, and gave him the leeway to take himself out? I don't see that as justice done, though it saves interrogation and court time and incarceration expense, and maybe comforts some that he's no longer any kind of threat.

If I had my druthers, I'd see him winged and captured, a long painful recuperation, the motive(s) dragged out of his festering soul, a jury trial and some kind of closure for survivors, and a presumably very long prison sentence.

My point is, do the police have any decision points to let a strong suspect dispatch himself vs. an admittedly risky attempt to capture him? I don't think that's an unfair question, though I realize of course that they have people who love them and want them home safe.

Again, condolences to all affected.
Peace and love to everybody here hug your kid/wife-husband-partner/sibling/parent/friend/pet and be thankful for one more sunset. Even you @115.
If I had my druthers, I'd see him winged and captured, a long painful recuperation, the motive(s) dragged out of his festering soul, a jury trial and some kind of closure for survivors, and a presumably very long prison sentence.

Rob, my idea: put convicted scumbag murderers in cells with thick glass walls. On those walls, looking in at them, would be photos of the people they murdered.


O, how all the racists here are humanizing these events...because these killers have names, and dress like the typical Seattlite who posts here.

Yet if this had involved the 23rd Street Jokers or other Othello sited gangs, you'd be calling for their heads, or dehumanizing them.

Face it -- just having the woolen cap or a Biblical name given to you by hippie parents or white skin doesn't make you any less of an animal, or killer than the other people you label and rant on each and every day here.
@172: The police are not there to retaliate, but to apprehend. Guidelines only allow the use of sublethal weapons such as Tasers when a suspect is ACTIVELY resisting, rather than passively resisting. Unless she pushed or struck a cop who was trying to get her to move, or otherwise acted aggressively towards them, there was no reason for the Taser to be used, pregnant or not.
I believe that we should support and respect our police officers, but we still have to hold people accountable for clearly excessive use of force.
@78, i was thinking the exact same thing. it will probably come out later that the shooter had a serious mental illness. bet on it.
@Roma, I'd donate to an inkjet-cartridge fund for extra-large prints.
My money's on Route 66, ironicly enough:…
As of 5:15, Harborview says the #downtownshooting #rooseveltshooting suspect is still alive.

re: @seattlepi
@179. Nothing you say is happening in your post is actually happening. Your post is nonsensical. These killers? Plural? Humanizing? Nobody knows the killer's name. Do you have any idea what's going on? You're full of shit.
@170, American society is not demanding a gun shop a mile away from Cafe Racer on Aurora or stand your ground laws in Florida. It's the gun lobby, Fox News and some fuckwad CHUDs posting on chat room boards.
@186 - "It's the gun lobby, Fox News and some fuckwad CHUDs posting on chat room boards."

Because anyone who disagrees with your opinions are "fuckwad CHUDs?"
@179. You know, you can pretty much set your watch to that line of blather around here. Take a break and go off and have an original thought.
He shot himself in front my of old house. I haven't lived there for 9 years, but it's completely freaking me out.

To those of you who know the victims, my deepest condolensces. This is a true tragedy.
@187, anyone suggesting guns didn't make this easy and fatal is in that category. It doesn't matter what his mental health is, what color he is or that a knife can be dangerous. There should be background checks, no guns sold at shows in Eastern Washington and no walking around with a gun without a permit. The fact that it's not going to prevent all crime in Seattle is not a counterargument. If it stops one wacko from killing four people, it is a sufficient compromise with the right to form an armed militia.
@190 - "There should be background checks, no guns sold at shows in Eastern Washington and no walking around with a gun without a permit."

There are 2 out of 3 of those things in place already. And yes, the "gun show loophole" sucks.
Jazz funeral. Lots of sad clowns.
Hey I have an idea, why don't we make those guns that keep killing people illegal?

I'm surprised I'm the first to think of this, there is literally no downside.
Background checks are not done consistently, and are based on old data. I'm not aware a requirement to obtain a premit from police department before transporting a gun.
Do you have any data showing how inconsistently background checks are done? Every dealer I've ever encountered has been absolutely fastidious about verifying and keeping records of ATF form 4473 (the one you have to fill out whenever a firearm purchase is made) and making background checks as required by law. Private sales are not subject to this - that's the "gun show loophole" I previously mentioned, and yes, it sucks.

Define "transporting." If you're walking around with a gun, you need to have a CPL. You might be able to get away with having it locked, in a case, to and from your vehicle without a permit. But not just "walking around," no.
Does anyone know any of the names of the victims?
@195, a Federal registry and a permit each move the gun is moved - not a permit for a period of time. The burden and responsibility on the gun owner, rather than society.
@197 - the only name released so far as I can tell is Len Meuse who I believe is a cook there, and is expected to survive. The two dead were regulars and members of a band that played at the racer often. The other man is a regular who lived near by. I'm still trying to find out who the woman killed was. I don't feel comfortable revealing the names here.
I knew of the 2 men who were band members, they were friends of a friend. I am concerned with the name of the woman because she may be a friend of a friend. If you do hear anything can you please just put the first letter of her first name? I understand not wanting names posted, but my friend is beside herself & desperate for information.
i haven't heard anything about the identity of the woman, but will post if i hear anything.
@198 - First you wanted "background checks" and "permits to carry around guns." When I pointed out that those are already required, now you want "a Federal registry and a permit each move the gun is moved (sic) - not a permit for a period of time."

So once your demands are met, you want to move the goalposts? It's quickly becoming clear that you're unwilling to be satisfied.
Thank you, cb. I'm sending all of my love to y'all in Seattle. I'm sorry that this has happened to y'all.
@202, I'm not satisfied with the status quo, and I'd love to hear from you how well it's working. A Federal registry, and permit to move a gun would be an improvement. Feel free to debate those on their merits, rather than dodging the issue.

Stranger reporters, wanna follow up on those?
Bad link, try again:

Name Court Case Number Judgment Record Court Information
1 Stawicki, Ian
Plaintiff Kittitas Superior Ct 97-2-00208-0 Available 06-03-1997
2 Stawicki, Ian L
Plaintiff Lower Kittitas Dist C97-00201 04-25-1997
3 Stawicki, Ian Lee
Defendant Seattle Municipal Ct 301103 01-21-1997
4 Stawicki, Ian Lee
Defendant Seattle Municipal Ct 893100796 11-06-1989
5 Stawicki, Ian Lee
Defendant Seattle Municipal Ct 519680 03-10-2008
6 Stawicki, Ian Lee
Defendant King County District 208008039 02-28-2008
7 Stawicki, Ian Lee
Defendant Lower Kittitas Dist 8742 03-16-2010

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