Comments

207
On behalf of all middle aged, white males in Seattle, I'd like to apologize for the recent onslaught of crime. As the Nicole Brodeurs and others of her ilk have taught me, it's said demographic that's the root of all evil.
208
On behalf of all middle aged, white males in Seattle, I'd like to apologize for the recent onslaught of crime. As the Nicole Brodeurs and others of her ilk have taught me, it's said demographic that's the root of all evil.
209
@204 - Better define "permit to move a gun," I guess. From the dealer to your house, locked in a box? From your house to the range, locked in a box? Walking around on the street with it? Separate license for each? Separate license per firearm? Just one license to do any of these per person?

As far as federal registries, records of all ATF Form 4473s (the same one I talked about before - ) are kept on file for 20 years. This information includes all information about the purchaser, the dealer, and the firearm (including serial number). What other information would you have collected?
210
@115 Put it very eloquently, IMO. Sometimes things said in anger contain a lot of truth.
211
@210: Fair enough, but "fuck you" doesn't provide any solutions.
212
Street, car, anywhere. Why not coordinate all the information that is out there, keep it up to date and have a Federal agency doing checks for all sales? You can pretend that's what's happening now, but it isn't. This story is from last month:
Virginia Gov. Bob McDonnell (R) has sent every governor in the nation a letter asking for support in improving background checks for gun purchases
213
@youknow - this probably won't help, but the man who's status is unknown has a first initial D, and his wife/girlfriend who has the first initial G was NOT the woman who died at harborview.
214
"Street, car, anywhere"
So basically require a CPL to own a firearm? I honestly don't have too much of an issue with that (already have a license), but there are somewhat reasonable people who would. It would be a very hard piece of legislation to get through.

"Why not coordinate all the information that is out there, keep it up to date and have a Federal agency doing checks for all sales?"

I've never claimed to take issue with that. It's what the BATF is supposed to be doing in the first place. It's their job, after all. After looking up the article you mentioned, it's a completely reasonable approach to leveraging systems and legislation that are already in place.
215
Thank you for the update, cb. I really appreciate it. If you get any more info please post again. I am refreshing the updates & watching the twitter feed for more info but being a couple thousand miles away puts me at a disadvantage to y'all who are actually there since I can only get info from police/news & not locals.
216
"In an effort to keep the discourse respectful and on topic, commenting on this item is now available only to registered commenters."
217
@214, I agree with you that it would be hard to get that legislation through. If the NRA stated the numbers are unacceptable, did not advocate for more guns as the solution, agreed not to challenge on second amendment grounds a set of restrictions on carrying and storing guns that put the burden and responsibility on gun owners, I think that would be progess.

I'd say 33 states not submitting any mental health records to the system is an unacceptable gap that requires immediate tying of federal funds to compliance.

If it isn't possible to have responsible gun ownership in Seattle in the current circumstances (budget and laws), then the guns are the first thing to go, not the last.
218
Twitter has it that he's dead now, at harborview. via Q13
219
@213; thanks!! If you get any word on how D is doing, please post. I'm in fucking Baltimore right now and trying to follow as best I can via text and Fbook and here. Some friends were at the hospital earlier, but no word from them yet.
220
@219 - just got word that don has passed. oddly enough, i am getting updates from friends in seattle. i also live in baltimore.
221
Damn, I have so wanted to push into this discussion so many times today, but frankly, I've been too occupied processing the fact that many of my friends and colleagues have lost people very close to them. Which is probably a good thing, because I can certainly understand the impulse of people like @ 115 to lash out in a moment of grief.

But, then the overly-analytic part of my brain kicks in...

So, here's the reality:

There are roughly 300,000,000 firearms floating around the U.S. as of this very moment, of which approximately 1/3 are handguns. That's 100,000,000 concealable weapons people; one for roughly every three people living in this country right now. The notion that we can magically make even an appreciable number of those disappear overnight is simply delusional thinking. We're a gun-crazy country, THE MOST GUN-CRAZY COUNTRY ON THE PLANET. We simply cannot make the crazy go away, because, even if we could prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that owning small weapons was BAD for society, and even if 100% of us AGREED with that notion, we'd never be able to confiscate all of them. Not. Going. To. Happen. EVER.

That being said, those of you who think the Second Amendment should have been the first paragraph in the Constitution, instead of second on the list of afterthoughts, need to understand that unrestricted access to small armaments is a serious problem, a FATAL FUCKING PROBLEM in this land, and that some sort of common-sense safe-guards need to be established to prevent (as much as is humanly possible) allowing these armaments to get into the hands of people who would only use them for ill-intent.

In short, we need to find some way to come to a compromise on this issue, because the alternative is to say that the horrific events of a day like today are an ACCEPTABLE price for maintaining the status quo. And if days like today tell us anything it's that what we're doing now ISN'T FUCKING WORKING.

Honestly, I don't know what the answer is: better background checks, stricter compliance with existing laws, more restrictive transfer processes, harsher penalties for those who use firearms in the commission of crimes, a national firearms registry - all of these make sense to me, even though I'm sure there are many responsible gun owners who will find objections to any one of them for all sorts of reasons. But, at some point ALL of us MUST acknowledge the fact that, if we're going to continue to allow for personal gun ownership in this country, we have to find a way, as imperfect as it may be, to minimize the possibility of terrible days like today ever occurring again.

It CAN'T be "my way or nothing"; we HAVE to work together on this, it's the only way we're going to resolve the dilemma.

I just don't want to see people I care about have to go through another day like today - is that such a BAD thing to wish for? I hope not.
222
@115 Yes, thank you.

My thoughts with all those personally affected...
223
My God, what a day.

Deepest condolences to all those who lost friends and loved ones today, and that includes the mentally ill Ian Stawicki whose "very bad day" caused all this grief... All these families torn apart, all this trauma, all this blood... Why was he allowed to own a gun? I'll be interested to find out the answer to that question in the coming days and weeks..

On the first day of my vacation, I was not best pleased to see two close friends on the teevee, sitting outside Cafe Racer and giving testimony to the cops.. Not best pleased, at all.. I am so thankful for my friends Larry and John, and Thank You God for their continued existence on this planet...

God help us all... God help us puny little humans down here, God help us......
224
@220: thanks, just got off the phone w/ a friend in Seattle, who told that they had decided to pull the plug on D...so, so, fucking sad...
225
and Comte @221: well said.
226
Okay, I didn't read all the comments. Only about 100 of them, but I am surprised no one has invited Tim Eyman to stand up and take a bow. He should feel so incredibly proud of how much he has saved us in licensing fees and taxes . . . and thusly cut funding for mental health! What's a life worth anyway?
227
Okay, I didn't read all the comments. Only about 100 of them, but I am surprised no one has invited Tim Eyman to stand up and take a bow. He should feel so incredibly proud of how much he has saved us in licensing fees and taxes . . . and thusly cut funding for mental health! What's a life worth anyway?
228
Don't forget folks, making it illegal to carry a gun would be useless. The people that do bad things with them would still get them and use them.
229
This is utter balls. Drew in particular was awesome, and Joe and Gloria I know nothing but good about.

Can we get a statue erected in their honor?
230
This is utter balls. Drew in particular was awesome, and Joe and Gloria I know nothing but good about.

Can we get a statue erected in their honor?
231
If you dont like the 2a fucking move to a different county way more people are killed from 2nd hand smoke. Yes this is a tragic loss and I pray for peace to the victims but Im keeping my guns if you dont like it kick rocks bitch try your luck in Mexico were only the criminals have guns.
232
Haha, VH @231 had to register today so that his poorly edited ramblings would no longer be hidden.

I know you think it is so important that people read your eloquent and unique viewpoint on this issue, but either finish middle school or get a style guide.

233
Hey if the only response you got is to talk about my horrible texting grammar maybe your lacking any usable substance.
So just follow the other sheep towards your nanny state when you need the cops in seconds there only minutes away.
Its D.I.Y. for me I refuse to be a victim I've been around firearms for 25+ years 0 injuries Yet I've buried some great people = to anyone who has fallen due to fucking drug addicts and drunk drivers and cancer from you fucking smokers.
234
@223:

Hey, if the only response you have is to talk about my horrible texting grammar, maybe you're lacking any usable substance.

So just follow the other sheep towards your nanny state, when you need the cops in seconds, and they are only minutes away.

It's D.I.Y. for me, and I refuse to be a victim. I've been around firearms for 25+ years, and have had zero injuries. Yet, I've buried some great people who are equal to anyone who has fallen due to fucking drug addicts, drunk drivers, and cancer from you fucking smokers.

-There buddy, I fixed your grammar and spelling, and changed the sentence structure so it flows better, and eliminated some of those areas where it is hard to know what you are trying to say. Hugs and kisses!
235
:) Thanks hugs and kisses back . Stay safe its a jungle out there.

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