Comments

1
Mr. Kerry should be working to accomplish something, anything. He's proving an inept Secretary of State as well.
2
gr8 b8 m8
3
John Kerry must know, then, without a doubt, that he's not one of the multitudes the NSA followed or wiretapped. I'd be interested to see if any Congresscritters or Senators make a 180 degree position twist after Glenn Greenwald makes his copy of the list of Americans spied on public.
4
Wow, 1970 John Kerry is dead. I guess most of us knew that when he voted for using force against Iraq, but still.
5
I can't believe you didn't mention this John Kerry fellow's race.

Though looking at the level of jingoism there I bet he's white.
6
Moshi moshi, beito desu.
8
Can't he be both?
9
traitor, hero, what's the difference?

during the swift boat smears, I wrote to the head of the swift boat veterans or something, and asked why they were silent and didn't have Kerry's back - the motherfucker is a decorated war hero. his response? we're a non-profit, we can't take sides in politics.

add on top of that profile in courage the high-tide mark of anti-gay marriage hysteria and legislation, and you shouldn't put it all on Kerry's campaign.

10
Um, Paul no. Snowden isn't an American hero.

I may not agree with much of what Kerry says but at least, he served this country in the US military (he's a Vietnam Vet), the US Senate and now at State. We can quibble about that the latter two services for better or for worse. However, in my view Kerry is a better man than Snowden.
11
Man, remember when it was 2004 and we were all sure that despite his obvious faults and drawbacks as a politician, John Kerry would clearly run a better foreign policy than Dick Cheney?

Good times, good times. I wouldn't say he's quite closed the gap yet -- Ukraine may be a disaster, but so far it's been a cheap disaster for us -- but he seems to be hell-bent on trying.
12
Heroes don't flee the consequences of their actions.
13
@12 so the Boston Tea Party: traitors, cowards or both?
14
Suuuuure. The Libertarian Paultard that was enthusiastically for the Patriot Act, for the invasion of Iraq, for GW Bush, and wanted to be a spy, became an american hero...
...the second the black guy got elected.
15
In the words of James Howard Kunstler, John Kerry is "a haircut in search of a brain."
17
Snowden betrayed his government, and did break his oaths. That's the price he had to pay to expose NSA's overreach. That took bravery. That he chose exile over the gentle ministrations of the Federal penal system is not cowardice. He may be a traitor. I don't think he betrayed the country, just the state.

People like John Kerry, John McCain, etc are so gorged on the tasty fruit of the poisonous tree that they don't understand why someone would seek to take that away from them, and hence they lash out. They are like a criminal kingpin calling someone a 'rat' for turning states evidence. The surveillance state version of "Snitches get stitches".
18
John Kerry knows Snowden will never get a fair shake in this country. He would have loved him disappeared such that we never hear Snowden's story at all. Either invite him to speak in front of congress or the only coward is the person who's afraid of what Snowden might tell congress. Snowden doesn't have any plans to be silent, and that's the only offer Kerry gives him, "face the music" is really just code word for "we want to torture you until we figure out what you stole from us". Kerry is a terrible liar. An even worse politician.
19
Why would anybody willingly decide to 'face the music' from a bunch of name calling children, angry at having their misdeeds aired? Or after seeing how Private Manning was treated?
20
What would you expect Kerry to say...,"no man, we cool"?
22
Yeah that Snowden fella should just catch a flight with his revoked passport, then sit in prison for a few years until his court date, then not be able to talk about any of the particulars of his case because
The Espionage Act effectively hinders a person from defending himself before a jury in an open court, as past examples show. In the case of Mr. Drake, who disclosed massive fraud, waste and abuse in NSA surveillance programs, the government moved to preclude the word “whistleblowing” from trial…Kiriakou, the first CIA officer to tell the media about waterboarding, could not tell the jury about his lack of intent…. And Manning’s salutary motive and intent, for revealing the military gunning down innocent civilians in Iraq as if they were playing “Call of Duty,” was ruled inadmissible until sentencing

So after a secret court, filled with a jury that won't be able to consider his motives, rules on laws, evidence, and prior readings, all potentially secret or redacted, rules him guilty of leaking state secrets, and he goes to jail for life at a high security prison, we can say the rule of law prevailed. Fuck Snowden, but good for him for following his civic virtue of submitting to arrests. Exposing government illegal actions, well who cares? Scaring and silencing a generation of potential whistleblowers? That's the collateral damage we must shoulder to put a jerk in his place.
23
@ 22, plus he'll be tortured in addition to who knows how many endless years of solitary confinement. Yeah, it's a mystery why he wouldn't want to come back to the US.
24
Our kleptocratic, sadistic, 1% supremacist rulers really are terrified of Snowden. One wonders what horrifying revelations are yet to come.
25
23: Given his incredibly high profile, he's not going to be tortured. He'd be tried, found guilty, and sentenced. The trial wouldn't be fair and the sentence overly harsh. But there's no reason to invent shit because someone watched too much fucking 24.
26
Unfortunately the administration has chosen to attack the messenger and circle the wagons rather than confronting the rampant waste represented by our intelligence agencies running amok.
27
The guy basically lies constantly, but everyone has to promote this idea that he's an unimpeachable hero because of the importance of his leaks. There's a fine line between acknowledging the value of what someone's done and sucking their dick. And most of this is hero-worshiping dick sucking, plain and simple. Hey, yesterday he was an innocent naif who idealistically stepped up, and now today he's a deep cover spy. Which is it?
28
@25 Many people consider years in solitary confinement to be torture. He won't have his fingernails ripped out, but he would be psychologically destroyed.
29
I'm glad the NSA shit came out, and I hope tomorrow's revelations (announced by Greenwald) blow this shit so wide open that the NSA will hemorrhage to death.
30
28: True enough.
32
@20 I would like him to say we'll give you a pardon if you'll give a full accounting of everything you discovered to a special tribunal in Congress which would rip the veil off the entire intelligence community and let us know exactly what they've been spending our billions on.
33
@31 Had he been caught in the U.S. he wouldn't have faced a trial at all. He would have been held indefinitely in solitary confinement and then eventually he would have plead guilty to mishandling government secrets and child pornography so the government could justify the detention without admitting what he'd actually been accused of.
34
Edward Snowden is not a hero. He also isn't a traitor. He didn't just violated his security clearance, he got numerous people fired because he violated their trusts and asked for their passwords for his job at server maintenance.
35
@22 - Thank you for a well written comment.

It takes courage to expose power to the truth.

Snowden didn't harm America by exposing secrets. Our Government Harmed America by doing in secret what it knew it couldn't do in the open.

On the off chance Mr. Snowden sees this. Thank you sir.
37
Hero isn't exactly the word that comes to mind for me. It's more like self-righteous fucking douche bag.
38
@25
Chelsea Manning, with that incredibly high profile, was tortured.
40
If Snowden is such a fucking hero Mr. Constant, let him return here to his country and defend his actions like a real hero.
41
@24 "One wonders what horrifying revelations are yet to come."

I think we've seen the 'best' of the Snowden data. They've laid out the systems and procedures they found to be objectionable, and we didn't have a revolution or even any cessation of information gathering. Good job on letting us know Ed, but no one really cares enough to actually do anything.

What he has left is likely to be operational and personnel detail, which if released will lead to the immediate capture or kill of everyone even remotely involved. Russia certainly isn't going to tolerate him using their border as a shield if he goes down that road.

We'll hear Greenwald say there is more to come for the next 20 years though, as marketing for his books and https://firstlook.org/
42
Well, if it takes one to know one, Kerry's judgment may be valid.
43
Wow, that didn't take long from rehabilitating his rep from losing the most important election in American history to becoming John McCain's understudy for sellout of the century.
44
No you are wrong Paul, stop having a hard on for this guy.
45
@ 13 They didn't flee the country.
46
So Kerry is now trying to claim the high road and huff his outrage about Snowden's dishonor, after the US Government spent over a decade of illegally spying on its own citizens and running secret star chambers? That's rich.
47
It is only the powers that be who call someone a traitor. Time will reveal that a hero lies in one who wishes to change the balance of power towards the people involved.
48
Kerry's remarks are a reminder of what politics and governance and nations are all about. It's fucking brutal. That Snowden chose to act in the face of that is courageous in a way I don't know that many of us commenting here can fathom.
49
@21 Try 9 months of treatment which the military later termed "excessive":

"After Manning’s arrest on May 29, 2010, he was transferred to a Marine brig in Quantico, Virginia, where, during his nine-month stay, he was reportedly held in solitary confinement for 23 hours a day, forced to sleep naked without pillows and sheets on his bed, and restricted from physical recreation or access to television or newspapers even during his one daily hour of freedom from his cell, all under the pretense that the private was a suicide risk."

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/20…
50
He's not a traitor in the legal sense, but he's no fucking hero either. He didn't have any problem with his job when the president was white.
51
@50

What we do and who we are need not be in agreement. One does not always define the other, nor should it in the mind of the wise.

The character of a person may define them without defining the nature of their acts.

In other words, Snowden need not be a hero to have acted like one.
52
That pasty faced drop-out has put many special ops personnel in harms way. He has more information dealing with security PROTECTION operations world wide. The US Government has no need or intent to data mine everyone's dirty little indiscretions. The U.S. Does not have its eyes set on paltry infidelities or dalliances.
. The U.S. does have interests in terror cell activities and other potentially harmful arms transfers, chemical distribution, among the many, many rogue foreign and domestic elements that are currently active.

Give me a gun and a bullet and I'll gladly pull the trigger on Snowden.
53
@52 How thwilling! What a big, bwave boy you are!
54
I voted for Kucinich.
55
In truth, I still don't get why Snowden is a hero. To the one, he isn't a whistleblower who accidentally stumbled across something wrong; he's a guy who went looking for a security violation to commit. To another, let's be honest, here: Who the hell was legitimately surprised by the idea that the U.S. government spies on its own citizens? No, really, for all the shock and awe people have been expressing, I keep wondering if maybe the fact that significant numbers of those folks actually vote is part of the problem with this country. To a third, the guy poodled for Putin a couple weeks ago. And to a fourth, the guy now claims he was a spy. A spy who infiltrated the United States government through a half-witted, capitalistic private-sector firm, sought secure information to steal, found it, and stole it.

It's easy to call Edward Snowden a hero. Just like it's easy to say water is dry. That is to say, it's easy to say pretty much anything.

But come on, really? A hero? It reminds me of my youth, when WWE was still WWF and the idea of trying to murder a guy by crushing his throat with the ring bell was supposed to be admirable because, let's face it, the "Macho Man" was cool.

No, really, that's what it looks like. That is to say, sure there is good and bad, or right and wrong, but what really matters is what everybody decides is "cool" regardless of the actual reality of the situation.

And, you know, to a fifth, given the fuckup in 2001, I would like you to imagine something else happening, and the government's answer being, "Well, we have the technology to stop this sort of thing, but, you know, we didn't want to use it and upset rich white people."

Yeah, I'm a gay commie stoner. Remind me again: Why is it surprising that the government spies on people? Or is it just that a bunch of white people woke up and found out they were now included with the browns and blacks, the commies and queers and stoners?

No, really ... why are we supposed to be surprised?
56
No matter what he did, fleeing to Russia/China with a shit ton of state secrets makes him a coward, John Kerry is 100% correct.
58
A government for, of and by the people doesn't have anything to fear from sharing the information it generates with the people. In fact, a government for, or and by the people must not have secrets.

Edward Snowden is a hero. I see no reason to require him to be a martyr being driven mad in a blank white room for the rest of his life.
59
@58: Are you saying that every classified document on engineering nuclear weapons should be made available to everyone? The fact of the matter is, some secrets are necessary. What needs to be kept secret is a valid matter of debate.
60
@59

Venom, it's too bad your fellow informant Arnon Milchan does not have the same philosophy about nuclear secrets. But he went Scott free, even made a wonderful award winning movie about slavery. I wonder why he went free yet people like Feinstein and Kerry drop the hammer down on Snowden?
61
@60: One, the term is "scot free" or "scot-free". Two, I am not an informant in any sense of the word; unless you mean to claim I am, your use of "your fellow informant" makes even less sense than most of your gibberish. Three, Mr. Milchan's activity as an Israeli agent did not involve stealing nuclear secrets but rather networking and procuring materiel. I know your usual pattern is "blah blah blah, made-up claim unsupported by evidence, therefore the Jews", but you're slipping even in comparison to that. Shape up your arguments, nimrod.
62
Here is somthung that will really bother you. Bad use of spelling or grammar. Oh know! It's anotha grammar Shoah! 10 billion casualties.

I'm guessing in your next response you try to avoid the long history of israeli spies in the USA concerning nuclear secrets, weapons tech or the more recent reveal that israeli s.s. is the 3rd most aggressive against American interests. Yep, the Promised land is a common refuge for jooish criminals. American tax dollars well spent. Enjoy your new dome!

P.s. free pollard! (Via Lethal injection)
64
@62: Dayum boy, you can't even spell "something" correctly.

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