and remember to be decent to everyoneall of the time.
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The vasectomy issues suck, no question. It's a medical problem and you definitely should get that taken care of. But you need to do some serious thinking - did your wife intentionally entrap you into a second kid, or were you just too lazy to do your own research? (Or just unlucky? That happens too, you know . . .) If you can't forgive her for what you feel is a terrible deception, then yeah, your marriage is probably over, despite the kids. But if you do some soul-searching and realize that maybe - if you can get your medical problems ironed out and since you're going to be a father to two kids no matter whether you're married or not - you want to actually be there as a family for them, you might want to look into counseling or whatnot and see if there's a chance you and your wife can forgive each other.
In future relationships the LW might need to work harder for what he wants at the outset, rather than giving way and ending up with a horrendous situation for everybody, especially the poor kids.
No. That's a joke. Find an accupunturist, see if they could help.
Your children are here now, please don't project any of this ill will onto them. If you hate your wife, as you say.
Have you guys looked into marriage counselling? Might be the first place to go. Get these issues talked about clearly, with a third person. You do have a family, try to repair these communication problems with your wife.
And maybe find a therapist for yourself. Being snipped should always be the man's choice. You give your wife too much power, it sounds like. Then, like a sulking child, you hate her.
Might be patterns here with how things were in the power dynamic with your mother?
The anger and hating is bad for your body. Find a way to clear it.
Your wife does sound insensitive to your experiences. Though, what is it she can do? Feel guilty all the time, is that what you want?
Maybe a pain management clinic. Some meditation, to help you release the pain, not tense with it.
Glad to see that your commenters are covering those bases for you.
I do think you need a full medical evaluation to make certain you aren't in the 1-2% of men who do have physical problems after a vasectomy. You also need to decide if you really think your wife is a manipulative bitch who tricked you into getting her pregnant. If that is what you truly believe, then it is time to cut your losses. If you are right, then you deserve better. If you are wrong then she deserves better. A marriage with such mistrust and resentment is not good for you, your wife or your children. At least you won't have to worry about having more than 2 children.
He did take the most basic interest in avoiding impregnation. That step was "trust his wife," which turns out to've been a huge mistake.
LW: Get a divorce. Feel free to skip marriage counseling, because paying money to be told it's your fault because of Mysterious Unutterable Reasons isn't a good use of the funds with which you ought to be paying a good lawyer. Get out, get treatment with a doctor who isn't incompetent, and in the future stay out of relationships with people who don't respect your bodily autonomy.
Straight to divorce, rather than trying to find new ways he and his wife can communicate- is lazy. His children deserve better. I feel this marriage is stuck, not dead.
It does suck that his wife won't take his post-vasectomy pain seriously, just because negative side effects don't happen to everyone. I would guess that her lack of sympathy is a direct by-product of their deteriorated relationship.
Every contraception piece is like:conception is possible at ANY TIME in a woman's cycle INCLUDING period OMG you guys, don't do the period sex, your sperm will ride the red wave all the way to the ovaries and then camp out til an egg gets there and attack!
Every "trying to conceive" piece is like: the period and days after are literally impossible to conceive. Don't you fucking read? No egg, stupids. What you think your sperm are gonna just hang out and wait for eggs to come along? Not a chance buddy.
Every rhythm piece: ALL THE DAYS ARE SAFE. I mean...not these three over here. But you should probably just have sex anyway, for Jesus.
So not a lot of great info on that topic to be had really...
Let's see. Tell her that your balls fucking hurt and if she doesn't stick her face down there for 20 minutes you'll find someone who will. Make sure she's happy enough afterward to want to do it the next time you ask.
And grow up, a partner's "I promise it won't make a baby" is not birth control.
2. Divorce the lying, manipulative, inconsiderate, narcissistic harpy passing as a woman. She's toxic. And she cares nothing for you.
3. Whatever the custody arrangement is, be as good of a father as you can to both kids. Negotiate 50/50 custody.
4. Get some counseling to help you get rid of this simmering resentment, if it persists after divorce, and to help you establish and maintain both better boundaries and better communication in your next relationship, not only so you will be happier in the future, but so you can provide a better model to your children of a healthy adult in a healthy relationship, because with a mom like her (and, frankly, a dad like you, if you don't get yourself on a more even keel), they are going to need all the positive examples they can get.
5. The proper phrase is the "The wife couldn't care less." Make a note of it.
The pain sucks, no doubt. And he should be believed. But everything leading up to it is just strange.
I support Alanmt @14's answer.
Please google "Natural Birth Control". It's not the same thing as the rhythm method and it's exactly as reliable as the woman who practices it. My wife and I used it for 14 years, both for purposes of getting pregnant and avoiding getting pregnant, before circumstances no longer allowed.
LW - a close friend suffered the same crippling pain after his vasectomy. Hardly even saw him for a year. I can't imagine how awful it was for him (he's reluctant to talk about it), even without a horrible wife dismissing him as crazy. He eventually had his vasectomy reversed, and the pain resolved. Look into it - insurance might even cover it as a medical necessity.
P.S. Thanks, Dan, for tracking down what info you could on vasectomy complications. Strange that the research is so thin.
The wife is a rotten person who lied to him. Regardless of whether it was prudent for him to rely on her, his is an error of trusting someone he loved who ostensibly loved him in return, while hers is a deliberate perpetuation of fraud and betrayal. These two things are not even close in terms of moral culpability.
Second, she pushed him into a medical procedure he neither wanted nor needed and then when it resulted in significantly unpleasant side effects, alternates between telling him he's lying about it or downplaying its severity entirely. That is also a rotten course of conduct.
The wife-hating seems justified here.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I see that some of you apparently can't conceive of a hetero relationship where the man is more stoic/laid back/appeasing while the woman is the more assertive and dominant personality in the relationship and want to jump all over him for not being as decisive and responsible as a man ought to be. But the conversational tone of this guy's writing might be an important indicator of the kind of guy he is and the kind of relationship he and his wife have.
Of course there's not much information here but neither of these people sounds like a great catch. They both sound pretty toxic although if he's in pain that probably doesn't help. And the way he seems to change between past and present tense in the first two paragraphs confuses me, but maybe I'm just reading it wrong.
I can't say for sure in this case if it is -- I would never rule out marital counseling except when there was dangerous abuse that merited getting out immediately. But it sure sounds like their relationship is toxic (and I'm not necessarily saying she's solely to blame here). Perhaps all four would be better off if LW and his spouse were no longer married.
Also, re-reading it, I'm thinking that @9 is correct, it could have been a situation where they assumed she wasn't ovulating because she was nursing. In any event, absent any other evidence, it sounds like an unplanned pregnancy rather than deliberate entrapment.
But unless LW can get some professional help to get past his anger, divorce may be the best option for the whole family.
Vasectomy pain isn't about botched procedures, it's about the procedure being inherently problematic for some men.
With closed vasectomies, the vas deferens is snipped and sealed shut, kind of like putting your thumb over a garden hose. That's not how your nutsack was designed, so not especially shocking that it could irritate a nerve ending or two.
With open vasectomies, the vas deferens is left open to spill the sperm into your scrotum where the immune system sometimes reacts unfavorably.
You need to see another doctor, probably a micro-surgeon.
"LW is male? Then he is wrong, or lying, and should take responsibility."
Kind of like a woman who is "asking for it", shouldn't have gone to the party, drunk too much, etc etc. "Grow up and take responsibility." Fuck that BS.
I know it is not exactly the same but close enough.
2) After consulting the second doctor, the lw should make an appointment with a family law attorney. This marriage sounds beyond salvation. Both parties sound like people who put in a career-amount of work making each other miserable and hating each other.
3) Then he needs to take a parenting class or an anger management class. It's not his poor second child's fault that the kid exists, and the kid doesn't deserve the crappy treatment I somehow have no problem imagining NCNH dishes out.
I'd rather read about people boiling up used underwear and drinking the resulting soup any day over reading bitterness and contempt like this.
And why shouldn't he be angry?
You wouldn't tell a woman who was raped to just calm down, accept it, don't get emotional, don't be angry. Of course she'd be angry. She was violated. This guy feels like he was violated.
If it was a woman I suspect you'd acknowledge the violation rather than trying to deny it. What utter BS.
Still, it's something to consider for any of you guys considering getting clipped.
(old study, but even back then vasectomy was believed to be a risk for prostate cancer)
Yes I'm a woman. When I didn't want kids, I was on contraception. After I had my daughter I made my husband wear a condom. I was nursing so no hormonal contraception and you can't fit a diaphragm until your body returns to normal size after a birth. If you don't want kids, take the steps not to have them. That isn't victim blaming. That's telling him to do what will make him not be a father again.
I don't know what his wife is like, I'd want to hear her side of the story to form an opinion. His one-sided rant doesn't tell me anything about her, just about him.
Angry as he is, I can't see any good come out of this situation for any of them, no matter who's really at fault.
And notwithstanding my love of the pill, I also support seandr @21's assertion that tracking one's fertility is not that hard and is quite reliable. I used NFP to get pregnant, and found it very satisfying to have all that knowledge about my body.
That said, neither the pill nor NFP will work if the woman wants to get pregnant and is willing to lie to her husband about birth control. Perhaps he should also verify that the kid is his, since his wife doesn't seem to be an honest person.
Definitely go see another doctor. See a urologist or a specialist. Sure, some pain can have a mental element, but this sounds like a specific reaction to a specific surgical procedure, not just random mentally induced pain.
So people are calling him psycho. He doesn't say why he thinks it was a malicious instead of stupid mistake. I can see why it might be best to divorce but then again do you really want them dating other people?
A better analogy would be a woman who writes in because her husband got her pregnant by poking holes in the condom, badgered her into getting a tubal ligation, and then dismissed her complaints of lasting pain from a surgical procedure she didn't even want.
Pretty sure we'd see a unanimous verdict of "scumbag" in that case.
But they are cold. What helps?
Regarding her claims that it was in the "time frame of 'being safe'", did it ever occur to you that she wasn't lying, she was mistaken? I assume you've heard the crack that people who practice natural family planning are frequently called "parents". So you use a condom to prevent pregnancy since YOU'RE the one who doesn't want any more kids. Or you get a vasectomy to reduce the likelihood of these mistakes happening. You're right, it's not without side effects, but nor is female birth control.
I'm sorry you're having trouble post-procedure. I hope you will take yourself first to another urologist for a second opinion and second to a shrink to work through the rage you feel at your wife. It's quite possible something went wrong with the procedure, but I wonder how much of the pain you're feeling is your anger toward your wife.
In committed couples, birth control should be the responsibility of BOTH partners.
I guess some people are willing to put in a little effort towards their partner's sexual satisfaction, others aren't.
Yes, this woman sounds unpleasant, but this marriage sounds like it probably had issues before the kids came along. And if he was so adamant about no more kids, then fucking use a condom. But think: what if he used one and the condom broke?!? Would he still be so angry if it resulted in an unwanted pregnancy? This is the chance a heterosexual couple takes when they fuck if neither is infertile.
An individual man is not allowed to be angry because men have been jerks.
We only get one side of these stories in most cases and I personally can't make definite statements without more evidence. But there is a lot of evidence in the narrative given.
I do have some strong opinions on some issues raised:
BIRTH CONTROL IS 100% HER RESPONSIBILITY! AND 100% HIS!!!!!! It's a freaking kid, it's permanent and it's more than a little important.
The evidence presented in the LW's letter is, communication is a major failure for both.
Lack of agreement on number of kids and his lack of involvement mean they should not have been having unprotected sex or penetrative sex until both things were worked out.
Also, as pointed out above, no one can force anyone to do something, so unless his wife had a gun on him, he got the vasectomy.
LW, put on your big boy pants and take ownership of your part in the entire situation.
Having said that, there is no evidence of who is right or wrong in this relationship. The narrative the LW presents, simply does not provide evidence of her lying. No birth control is perfect, and non chemical methods involve very special challenges. Again, if you dont want a baby, then the both of you need to agree in advance about birth control and what happens if it fails.
So again, here I see evidence of a toxic relationship where tough questions are avoided and blaming the other seems to be the best solution.
But what is clear, the LW has a large anger problem. His letter is dripping with it. He is dismissive (go figure). He treats the wife opinion of its all in his head as unfounded when it is what the doctor is saying. (Seen the doctor who said it wasn't his procedure, it was me. Wife says it must be in my head.)
So if at the very least his anger can't be addressed, their joint inability to communicate and decide as equals can't be looked at and mended, then please please please do get a divorce. And she needs to be willing to look at her behavior.
But it will be easier in the long run to work on the relationship honestly and not.
But funny this, BOTH NEED TO DO THE HEAVY LIFTING!
Hell I'm wondering if the push for the vasectomy came because the wife was sick of hearing about how baby #2 ruined this guy's life and how terrible she was.
Hell despite his claims of terrible pain his only action is to whine to his wife and then write a letter to an advice columnist. There's no mention of seeing a doctor or taking any steps to resolve this pain.
So yeah I think he's making it up to get back at his wife.
My screw up.
This man talks about his children like they are just things.
However they were conceived, they are his blood
I assume they are small children. And knowing that work, I imagine his wife is snowed under with the needs of these little people. Doesn't excuse her insensitive responses to his pain,it just gives it a context.
Yes, the wife sounds like a real piece of shit - IFF you believe this very Unreliable Narrator who has acted like a spoiled child the entire time.
But even if he's Mr. Mild Milquetoast rather than Manfred Manleigh, he still has to take responsibility for his own feelings and actions. Birth control is not just the woman's responsibility. If he really didn't want another kid, he should have done more to make sure he didn't have one instead of leaving it all up to his wife. Maybe she really did lie to him as he claims, and maybe it was an honest accident, we have no way of knowing (he doesn't say if she admits it). But anyone who absolutely doesn't want to have a kid and relies solely on calendar-based contraception is an idiot playing Russian Roulette, anecdotal evidence notwithstanding (see link above). And that goes double if their partner is less than 100% committed to the no-more-kids plan AND THEY KNOW THIS.
It's too late to do anything about the pregnancy and too late to do much about the vasectomy (which it turns out he did in fact need, but one kid earlier), other than to get another doctor and see if the pain can be addressed or the operation reversed. The pain is very unfortunate, as is her (alleged) disbelief in it.
I'm more concerned about his seething, passive-aggressive resentment. It's possible his wife pushed for the vasectomy because the second kid was in fact an accident and she saw how poorly he handled it and is trying to avoid more of his radioactive rage. How long has he been sitting on this? Long enough to have had the kid and to be talked into the vasectomy (something else he's taking no responsibility for but blames her for anyway, which is a pretty good indication of how reliable his story is). Which tells us how well he's processing his feelings. He didn't want a vasectomy, didn't want to use condoms, expects his wife to handle all the birth control, still chose to have sex, but blames her for all the consequences - how does that work exactly?
If he's really that mad and really has good cause to be that mad and really can't find a good reason to forgive her, then he has no business being in this marriage and taking it out on her and probably his kids. Leave and pay child support and get some therapy and try to be a good dad. But instead he's just been sitting around blaming her for his problems. Being passive is what got him into this jam.
If she had written in saying that she'd deliberately gotten pregnant, I doubt she'd get much sympathy (and rightly so). But I wouldn't be surprised if in her version of the story it was in fact an accident.
I have issues.
Would the pain go away if the vasectomy were reversed? That may be something worth looking into. Particularly since it appears he and the wife aren't having sex at all anymore.
I'm female and I believe having 18+ years of parenthood forced upon you against your will is a violation on an equivalent level to rape.
@36: "I don't see what is victim blaming in telling the person who doesn't want more kids to take every precaution they can to not have a kid."
It doesn't matter that you don't see victim-blaming as victim-blaming when you do it. "I don't see how it's victim-blaming in telling the person who doesn't want to be raped to take every precaution they can to not be raped." I assume you can see the error you're making when other people make it.
The logic should look familiar to you, because it's used both for victim-blaming for rape, and for denying abortion rights. After all, if she didn't want to have a kid, she could've held an Aspirin between her legs, amirite? Bad logic doesn't turn into good logic just because this time it lets you attack people you don't like.
Sexual intercourse between two fertile people can ALWAYS result in a pregnancy, no matter how many precautions you take. I'm not sure how the LW knows that his wife got pregnant on purpose. He doesn't say. All I know is that it takes 2 people to make a baby.
I just hope the LW grows up before child number 2 is old enough to understand and internalize his resentment of their very existence.
Only an idiot would promise it couldn't happen. And only an idiot would believe such a promise. No form of birth control is perfect.
Unwanted children have always been a nasty side affect of unconsensual sex, but you can't say they are the worst part. I think that reproductive tampering (intentionally taking steps to cause unwanted children) should be its own crime.
But I also agree with @67 about let's please stop the rape analogies. This is the one time out of the three recent instances that you've cried rape analogy where what was done to the LW without consent is in any way at a similar level. But it's still an apple and an orange, and trotting out "rape! no consent! misandry!" whenever someone has done anything you disagree with isn't winning you any friends here.
All people are people. All of them. It's odd that you think I'm concerned about winning friends who don't agree.
Seandr and Alanmt said it all, but apparently it bears repeating:
"Wow, lots of support here for a woman who insists that vasectomies are 100% safe and that her husband's crippling pain is all in his head."
What's it like not to have a warning bell in your head that says "Wow, I'm being a terrible person?" Anyone who thinks Dan's being mean to the wife: could you tell me more about whatever it is that turns off your ability to feel empathy whenever you think about men?
And that apology only lasted as long as I appeared to agree with you. Hmm.
There are a lot of people who think rape victims are the only kind of victims who shouldn't be victim-blamed. I enjoy pointing out to those people what hypocritical sacks of shit they are.
If you do something analogous to rape, expect rape analogies. That's life. If you victim-blame using the same arguments people use to victim-blame rape victims, expect to have it pointed out that you're using arguments that you know are false. Unless you also victim-blame rape victims, in which case you get points for consistency and honesty, but are still a terrible person.
If you agree that someone is doing something identical to blaming rape victims for their rape, why do you have a problem with the rest of us acknowledging that that's happening?
Why is it so hard for everyone here to understand that you should treat other people the way you would want to be treated, and that this does not apply only to how you treat women? If your husband had sabotaged a condom to get you pregnant, then made you get an operation that put you in constant pain, then constantly told you that the pain was all in your head, would you want to be told that you're the one at fault?
Some people are really good listeners, and really good learners, and really good lovers.
The human body is an amazing thing. Then there is the human mind. I would like to look closely at your brain. I would like to poke and prod you, and see if you taste nice.
Do you also think that shoplifting a pack of gum should carry the same jail sentence as armed robbery? That's what you seem to be arguing here. Not all wrong things are equally bad. And your insistence that everyone who doesn't think all wrong things are equally bad is anti-man is simply ridiculous.
And, since I'm not the one who's victim-blaming in this particular situation, I'm going to back off now before you really piss me off. Again.
-70 (BiDanFan) "But I also agree with @67 about let's please stop the rape analogies. This is the one time out of the three recent instances that you've cried rape analogy where what was done to the LW without consent is in any way at a similar level."
-76 (BiDanFan) "And, since I'm not the one who's victim-blaming in this particular situation, I'm going to back off now before you really piss me off. Again."
Good, because you're not making any sense here. I don't understand why the rape analogy is the focus here. Victim-blaming is bullshit... for rape or anything else. You know, the person you're arguing with knows, and if the genders of the LW's relationship were reversed this thread would look very different.
That said, like someone who buys into a scheme, it's hard to see the LW as a victim, at least the total victim like someone who is raped. He ought to have known better than to rely upon so-called natural birth control if he was dead set against having an additional child and knew his wife had a chance of sabotaging things. It's hard to see him bearing zero responsibility for the situation, and zero resonsibility is what makes someone a victim.
I'm open to persuasion that the LW is a full victim here, but so far I don't see it.
My point was two-fold: firstly, watching person B criticize person A (with whom they already agreed) for something they themselves (person B) had done in the same thread was dumb... had to call it out. Sorry.
Second, I wonder if I took the time to sort through some of other deceit themed letters on here with the genders reversed from this one... would I find the same passion for parsing what percentage of victim the LW represented? I tend to think not. That bothers me, maybe not as much as the rape analogy but it still bothers me. People wonder why male victims stay silent, this thread does a pretty good job at showing why, and this guy was just naive with the person he married. As the husband of a male rape victim, this just hits home some. (NO, that was not to make another rape analogy for the dipstick LW... only to illustrate why I care about male victim-blaming.)
Either way, Matt, thanks for your thoughtful opinion, even if I disagree.
No. To suggest that it is reasonable to expect a woman to get an abortion just because her partner should desire it is at least as unacceptable as would be the expectation that she would keep a pregnancy only because her partner desires it.
One doesn't kill one's baby because the child's father doesn't want it. (While it's not explicitly stated, it sounded to me like the wife wanted this other child, irrespective of whether the second pregnancy was intentional on her part or accidental, which likely means it would feel to her like "killing her baby" instead of "getting an abortion." The same act feels very different for a woman who wants the abortion than for one who does not.)
More to the point, other people do not tell a pregnant woman what to do with her body and/or her baby. "Because someone else wants me to," even if that someone else is the fetus/child's father, is not enough of a reason to get an abortion. Outside parties (even fathers) don't get to decide that a woman keep a pregnancy, and they don't get to say that she end one, either. To suggest she end her pregnancy solely on the grounds that the father doesn't want the child is inappropriate.
You could have suggested "She could choose to give the child for adoption" and my critique would be identical. I get that you are probably trying to remind the general public that this option (abortion) is there, even for married women (contrary to stereotype), but the suggestion is not always fitting, and the fact that she chose otherwise is certainly not anything for which to fault her. (Of course, if she was sabotaging his (nonexistent?) contraceptive efforts (holes in condoms, only pretending to use spermicide, buying fertility drugs on the black market...) that's different, but a separate issue from whether she has some sort of obligation to abort because the other (inadvertent) genetic collaborator wishes it.)
(He could have looked into surrendering parental rights and responsibilities. This is complicated legally and not a sure thing, depending upon circumstances, but if i were a parent married to someone this bitter, i might agree to it without hesitation.)
It also doesn't change based on who has which gender.
@79: "He ought to have known better than to rely upon so-called natural birth control if he was dead set against having an additional child..."
"It's hard to see him bearing zero responsibility for the situation, and zero resonsibility is what makes someone a victim."
"She ought to have known not to trust him not to rape her, and to have taken steps to make it impossible. She went off alone with him, or didn't bother to carry a gun, so she bears some responsibility." That's the same argument you're making. If you think there's a difference, you're a hypocrite.
I might conceivably be open to being convinced that we should blame rape victims more than we currently do, or other kinds of victims less than we do, but not that only one kind of person is responsible for the unforeseen consequences of actions they didn't successfully stop other people from taking.
@76: "Do you also think that shoplifting a pack of gum should carry the same jail sentence as armed robbery?"
I do think that if you say "You must not, ever, under any circumstances, blame the store owner for getting robbed," then the same rules apply to shoplifting. If it's not my fault when someone else robs me, it's also not my fault when someone else shoplifts. Either what other people do is entirely their fault (even if your own actions gave them the opportunity), or it isn't. It's impossible for me to be responsible for other people's shoplifting and not responsible for other people's robbing.
If my actions don't matter when it comes to assigning blame for your actions, fine. If my actions do matter when it comes to assigning blame for your actions, also fine. But pick one; it's disgusting to switch between the two based on your creepily-limited ability to feel empathy.
If it's stupid bullshit when other people say it, it's stupid bullshit when you say it too. Either it's okay to blame someone for someone else's actions, or it isn't.
I don't see evidence that she deliberately sabotaged his contraception efforts. I think that's the sticking point here. If the pregnancy was an accident, there's no betrayal. I think many of us don't see a betrayal because he just said "she said it was 'safe'", not that she cut
a slit in her diaphragm or something. She was probably wrong, not lying. This happened to me. (And i was the one who didn't want to get pregnant yet, and i was the one who was sooo sure of her fertility status and that we were in the no-baby group of days.)
Natural birth control is one of the least reliable methods of birth control (as high as 25% failure rate per year in typical use, even allowing for your critic's arguments). LW hates his wife for not believing he's in the 1-2% who suffer post-vasectomy chronic pain. But there's a good chance - and probably a higher chance - that she got pregnant by accident, and HE doesn't believe HER. So why is he the victim again?
And yes, please stop with the rape analogies. You're starting to sound like you resent women for being able to "play the rape card" more often than men or something.
Dear Dan: After our first kid, my husband and I disagreed about whether or not to have another (I wanted to, he didn't). He refused to use condoms and I've had bad reactions to hormonal birth control (heavier periods, bad cramps, headaches, low libido), so we tried using the rhythm method. As it turns out (wish I had known better), it's difficult to accurately time ovulation cycles and I got pregnant. We decided to go ahead and have it (we didn't discuss abortion, but I would have been uncomfortable with the idea), but after I had the baby my husband became increasingly distant, withheld sex and affection, and seemed to have some kind of unexpressed anger towards me. I thought at first it was just normal post-partum stuff and things would eventually return to normal, but instead it got worse. He seemed to resent me for getting pregnant even though it was an accident. I suggested he get a vasectomy, partly in hopes that this would make him feel comfortable having sex with me again (it's been months) and partly because I was afraid of what another accident might do to his mood. But ever since the vasectomy he just rages at me, blames me for "tricking him" (Dan, I don't see how I trapped him since we already had one kid together), and complains that he's having lots of pain because of the operation. He's been to see the doctor and the doctor says there's nothing wrong with him. My father and brother have both had vasectomies with no issues so I don't know what to think. My husband used to be a wonderful loving guy and we used to have great sex, but I can't even get him to talk to me any more and I don't know what to do.
Fits all the same facts as given by LW.
I agree that the rape-analogy people should consider the optics of that. But so should those who have gone out of their way... like WAY out of their way... to make sure the wife is seen as the victim here.
My guess is both parties are immature lying shitheads and they deserve each other. But then, that's usually the safe bet.
what do you want LW?
We can agree he's not being a mature adult. That doesn't make someone not a victim. It's certainly quite likely the nastiness goes both ways, but that's a possibility with many of the letters Dan posts, and we commentators don't generally spend a lot of time on that possibility.
@80: "I wonder if I took the time to sort through some of other deceit themed letters on here with the genders reversed from this one... would I find the same passion for parsing what percentage of victim the LW represented? I tend to think not." Indeed.
And for all the people saying "he should have used condoms", Planned Parenthood rates the effectiveness of condoms as equivalent to that of "rhythm" based methods of contraception. In other words, one of the least reliable means of contraception. She could easily have gotten pregnant if they'd been using condoms.
But it really doesn't matter to this LW's situation. He's clearly being very passive, and well on the way to being passive-aggressive if he's not there already. He should get out (do something assertive rather than being passive for once!!!) before he does something passive-aggressive that he regrets. If his perception of his wife is accurate, he should leave for his sake. If it is not, he should leave for her sake. Whether his portrayal of her is accurate or not, it is clear that the relationship is extremely toxic. There are no interpretations of this letter that don't lead to the conclusion: LEAVE. NOW.
here's teh list of birth control methods for men from planned parenthood
abstinence, condoms, outercourse, vasectomy, withdrawal
compared to women
Birth Control Implant (Implanon and Nexplanon)
Birth Control Patch (Ortho Evra)
Birth Control Pills
Birth Control Shot (Depo-Provera)
Birth Control Sponge (Today Sponge)
Birth Control Vaginal Ring (NuvaRing)
Breastfeeding as Birth Control
Cervical Cap (FemCap)
Fertility Awareness-Based Methods (FAMs)
Morning-After Pill (Emergency Contraception)
Sterilization for Women (Tubal Sterilization)
Withdrawal (Pull Out Method)
- See more at: http://www.plannedparenthood.org/health-…
wife demands a vasectomy, LW is just getting walked on