Barbara’s Brass Ovaries

1. @41

   do you mean that women are even MORE

   impulsive
   prone to violence
   demanding of instant action
   wanting to get to the bottom line, stop boring us with the lengthy linear description of every detail
   excited by risk
   need to have hierarchies
   like to “do stuff” with buddies instead of “talking and sharing”
   and love war

   then men?

   Such that if women had been in charge the last 40000000 years we’d of had EVEN MORE tribal violaence national violence genocide and domestic violence?

   Wow, I’m going to have to go tell this to all my feminist friends. Women are JUST LIKE MEN ONLY MORE SO.

   Got it.

   a Senator from California (550,000 – 40000000). And the whole point of the Senate is to block the hasty intemperate action of the House.

   so instead of microanalyzing 15 words in a meaningless exchange why dont’ we just eliminate the entire senate?

   We’d be done with the need for 60 votes which is the principal thing preventing us from enacting progressive legislation in every area. It’s fundamentally undemocratic as is the Senate itself, and there’s no other advanced nation that has such a crusty, nonrepresentative, conservatizing legislative chamber.

   Off with your heads, Sirs and Madames!

2. she should be addressed the way she wants to be. it was the senate, therefore, use senate protocol.

   personally, my opinion of the word “ma’am?” OUTSIDE the military, in the everyday world, it has a somewhat different connotation. i would not want to be called ma’am outside of the military. non-military folks don’t muster up as much respect for the word, ESPECIALLY in comparison to SIR.

3. Women just don’t like ma’am because it makes them feel old and aware of their dithering sexual power over others

4. I had an amazing, sweet guy my age working with me, who had served extensively in the Army and he could never break calling me ma’am. I think it is part of what they are ingrained with while serving.

5. As someone who was raised to say ma’am as a sign of respect, I thought she just came off as sounding bitchy for no reason to someone who was nothing but polite.

6. Eh, he called her ma’am, she wanted to be called Senator. Like @49 said, this is just like the “Liz” thing, only Boxer didn’t freak out about it.

7. The General comes off better than the Senator, if the point is to compare their performances. (I am not sure what the point of this intriguing little blog-perfect item is, actually, which perhaps is the source of its perfection).

   As many others have pointed out, his “ma’aming” was clearly intended respectfully (it’s good enough for the Queen of England, after all, although I don’t know if that is true for all situations), and he also immediately honored her request that he call her “Senator”, without seeming knocked off stride at all).

   She comes off as more concerned about matters dignitary than about whatever substantive matters of State were at hand. She doesn’t seem particularly aggressive about it, nor to be trying tactically to get him off-balance.

   “Brass ovaries” seems a little strong. “Unfocused ADHD sufferer” seems more like it.

8. The late Lord Thomson, Canada’s richest man, was once referred to as “Mr. Thomson”. He replied: “Madam, I paid enough for this title you might as well use it.”

9. WTF? In this presumably (not actually) egalitarian republic, the whole idea of these sorts of labels should be nauseating to everyone, especially liberals (which, I am). It’s like the other researchers I work with that freak out when someone doesn’t refer to them as “Dr.” Luckily, these status snobs seem to be mostly older, so maybe it’s a generational thing.

10. Conservatives getting their panties in a wad over this need to be shown Cheney’s “Go fuck yourself” to Sen. Leahy from a few years back.

11. From someone who while in the military testified before congress, this is how it works:

    – “Sir” or “Ma’am” is a general term of respect to be used for anyone of a higher rank without any prejudice. Sir or Ma’am trumps all other terms of reference.

    – If you have been formally introduced, it is appropriate to refer to a person as “Senator Smith” or “Admiral Jones”. Using that form of address before an introduction, and not while trying to discriminate among the same (several Admirals standing together, and you need to get the attention of Admiral Jones), is considered unduly familiar and impolite. Exceptions include the five basic responses (yes sir, no ma’am, aye’aye sir, I will find out ma’am, -direct answer to the question- ma’am) after you have been introduced.

    – calling someone by rank alone is equivalent to calling someone an asshole. It means you are smart enough to recognize the person’s rank, but unwilling to recognize the person as respectable. “Yes Captain” rather than “Yes sir” is a tacit implication that “I recognize that you outrank me, but you do not deserve to be called sir or ma’am, because that implies that I have some modicum of respect for you”. The exception is calling the commanding officer of your ship “captain” (or the commanding officer of your squadron “commodore”), since that is not just a rank but a specific position.

    I don’t know what happened before this interaction, but I can infer that the General was only trying to be respectful.

    -LT L

12. The right way to have dealt with this is for Senator Ovary to quietly get an aide to clue in the General as to her preferred addressing style. This in-your-face stuff is stupid and counterproductive. And is grist for the neocon hypocrite mill. I’m a screaming lefty, and found her snotty and offensive. Not ‘bold’.

Comments are closed.