CAEM -- I don't know if you're going to read the letters, or read this far, but my advice would be to write to Cary Tennis at Salon.com. I think you might find a more thoughtful, reasoned answer to your dilemma.

I also suspect Cary Tennis will ultimately come to the same conclusion -- that as long as what you want to do involves consenting adults, you're probably in the wrong religion. And I think maybe you have that suspicion too, which is why you're writing to advice columnists.

I don't think Dan's advice is bad, just lacking in sympathy.

Well, holy effin' wow. jab2009, Martychan and kim in portland thank you for the accolades.

kim in portland, you're absolutely correct. Blasphemy against the Holy Spirit is stated to be the one unforgivable sin, which is only commonly interpreted to be doubt or denial of Jesus as the son of God. Personally, I find the nature of such blasphemy to be terribly obtuse, not necessarily being denial or doubt of the Christ, certainly not necessarily meaning Extra Ecclesiam nulla salus.

Interestingly, when I was a young adult I (at recommendation by religious friends) prayed and begged the Christ to enter my soul and bring me understanding. The epiphany I gained that night was, rather, there are an infinite number of points between fundamental Christianity and hard atheism (thought it might also have been there are an infinite number of possible beliefs other than fundamental Christianity and hard atheism). While I did not find Jesus in the evangelical sense, it did put me on my present spiritual path, and as far as I'm concerned have God's blessing to walk it.

Martychan I've also noticed the personal nature of the relationship between God and the individual, at least in Protestant denominations of Christianity. This implies a personal responsibility to understand and interpret scripture, contrast to blindly allowing a given minister or church to tell you what to think. (Doing so is the traditional definition of sloth, incidentally.) Hence those who choose to justify their bigoted viewpoints by the bible are personally responsible for their intolerance. Catholicism sidesteps this issue by re-institutionalizing prayer as a tradition of the Church, so they get to place blame of their intolerance on the head of the Pope.

jab2009, I agree, and try to live by the same precept that the best we do is to convey comprehension of our positions; it's then respectful to let those you've done so decide for themselves. I don't always succeed (in my efforts to adhere).

@ #26. Ok, so I agree there are more Protestants than Catholics. But my irony meter just red-lined at your claim that Protestants are somehow above the absurdity of the immaculate conception. Aren't most fundamentalists who believe a literal interpretation of Genesis identified as Protestant????

Uriel-238,

I'm glad you found your path. We have much in common, faith wise.

Martychan,

Thank for your kind words of encouragment.

Hey #54 (and others)....

Tolerance of religion means not shutting down the churches in the neighborhood and letting them go about their inane business.

Criticizing them for mental terrorism is not intolerance. Its a predictable form of discourse coming from those who find the religious message nonsense.

If the religious folks kept their views out of public discourse, then railing against them publicly would be impolite.

However, since religions want both freedom and a public face, what they also must accept is people calling them on their bullshit.

that is all

I don't know what Dan means by "the revisions began before the body was cold", but then I don't know what the fuck a podcast is either, so I guess I'm just an ignorant top who craves mouth & ass.

And, isn't False Hymen a Joan Jett song?

I too originally thought Dan might have too quickly jumped to the conclusion that CAEM is gay. However, after rereading his letter I'm in total agreement that he is gay. He never references his desire is for a female, actually he avoids acknowledgment of the sex he desires he simply and accurately states that most 20 year old have desires of a sexual nature. Furthermore he indicates that he cannot discuss this with members of his faith - if his desires are of a hetrosexual nature than he most certainly could discuss it with any of his peers. He also asks "How does one prepare for a life of celibacy and solitude?" which, unless he was to become a priest or similar, would be totally unnecessary unless he was speaking of avoiding homosexual activity. And, even if the desires are hetrosexual then why in the world would he ever consider a celibate life when every religion I've ever heard of accept, condons and encourages marriage between a man and a woman.

I too think Dan was a bit harsh (but when isn't Dan a bit harsh?) but I do think he was totally correct in assuming the guy is gay and his advice was right on!

@30

" And you have no more proof that there is no God than I do that there is. It's an opinion based on faith or the lack thereof."

The inability to see, hear, smell, detect using instrumentation, or mathematically extrapolate any gods is actually quite a lot of evidence that there is no such thing. Proof? No, it's impossible to prove that something doesn't exist, because new evidence could always come to light. But until you can provide that evidence, it is ONLY rational to not believe in the undetectable thing.

The only evidence that we have of gods is via the people who "just know in their hearts", and, funny thing, all of these people who have access to Ultimate Truth via their deeply personal faith. . . well. . . they believe different things. Different gods, different "truths". So, at least most of these people with their deeply-held and conflicting convictions have to be wrong. You're sure about Jesus, some other guy on the other side of the planet is sure about Mohammed, and I am laughing at you both.

Let me say, I don't think that rational is the only way to be. Religious people like to claim that atheism is my religion, or that science is my religion. No, that's not true. I'm an atheist and a scientist because rationality leads you there. Rationality is my religion. My only justification for it is via more rationality, which is circular reasoning.

If people are happily irrational, I'm cool with that. Whatever peanut butters your jelly, man. If you think 2+2 might be 6 tomorrow and 38 the day after that, I don't fucking care. I just want religious people to stop CLAIMING that they are as rational as the rest of us. You can't have it both ways.

We have one person's assertion he's slept with CAEM and that he's gay--and CAEM speaks about indulging himself in the future tense, not the past. If he were worried sex doomed him he'd feel doomed eternally not doomed to loneliness. Other than that, I fail to see why he couldn't like only kids or dogs. He's most probably gay, but no smoking gun, right?

Jab2009, you wrote, "He mourns the loss of a soul if one dies before reconciliation." Seems to imply a chance was missed, and permanent harm done. Soul was LOST. So if you are "unlucky" enough to die on an off day, disfavoring God, you're LOST. If you were reconciled that day, you get eternal bliss. Would not a human who failed to forgive a loved spouse who died before an apology could be made be viewed as rather nasty? And I say "unlucky" because God could intervene in your fortunes until the day you were going to reconcile.

Over and over, the issue is this: why believe in something supernatural when there are so many better explanations, no evidence, and the counter position that the certainty of faith, experienced currently and throughout time, has been stupendously wrong over and over even in the opinion of the devout? What does the born again think of the certainty of the 911 bombers? They were wrong, so why trust their own unsupported faith? The one that say they'll be saved because they belong to the right faith--lucky that they were born somewhere it was taught, right?

For the dickwad who hyperventiled, "What if CAEM is a pedophile?"

Dan clearly stated that CAEM should act on his desires ONLY if they're ethical and with someone who also desires the same thing.

But nice homophobic slur, throwing in the "dog" and "disgusting" to boot.

I agree that Dan's response to CAEM's letter was a bit harsh, but then that's the risk you take asking Dan for his opinion.

Yes, CAEM is gay (straights don't require a life of celibacy). His "certain desires that almost all 20-year-old males have" sentence was just not clearly written, and refers to sexual urges.

That letter could have come from me 20 years ago. I was a tight-ass christian boy who secretly prided himself in being better than everyone else. But once I admitted to myself that I was gay (at age 28) I went thru a rough spell of everything I believed being questioned, and came out the other side only a little worse for wear. I still question my religious beliefs but haven't thrown it all out.

To anyone who thinks Dan's comments are harsh, I have to ask, have you been hiding under a rock for 17 years, or is this just the first time you've read his column? He's always harsh, acerbic, and more often than not, downright nasty and vicious. But mostly right. What's weird is, if you meet him in person, as I did at a book signing, he's the exact opposite: warm, apologetic, self-effacing. I barely recognized him! The perpetual Libra, always striving for balance; that's our dude Dan!

Keep in mind, folks, it's completely possible to have sex without destroying or rupturing the hymen. I knew a girl whose hymen didn't rupture until her third lover. Hymen does not equal virginity, although nutso religious freakwads will insist so.

>> My husband and I got married recently. <<

at first i thought this statement was needlessly obvious. then i quickly remembered it was dan's column, and not dr. laura's.

* TRIVIA NOTE! Oxford Dictionary definition of small-c "catholic" (what the word meant BEFORE the Church of Rome did its thing): all-embracing; of wide sympathies or interests; of interest or use to all, universal.
hmmm....

Yes, and after having learned this a few years ago I found it quite amusing to use the phrase "catholic community of Catholics" in a final exam essay in my freshman year Intro to Religion class, when speaking of "all the Catholics in the world."

I think Dan went way to easy on this moron.

Look, CAEM, your god and everything you think is holy results from an effective marketing scheme made by a bunch of perverted old men who want to take your money, control your life, and rape your children. Literally.

Stupid beliefs like yours are why God made hashish and psilocybin and instructed us to use them in Genesis. Personally, I recommend going camping, getting up before the sun, and taking a bunch of mushrooms. Then sit by a river smoking hashish hashish while the sun rise and talk directly with god about your problem.

I think Dan went way to easy on this moron.

Look, CAEM, your god and everything you think is holy results from an effective marketing scheme made by a bunch of perverted old men who want to take your money, control your life, and rape your children. Literally.

Stupid beliefs like yours are why God made hashish and psilocybin and instructed us to use them in Genesis. Personally, I recommend going camping, getting up before the sun, and taking a bunch of mushrooms. Then sit by a river smoking hashish while the sun comes into view as the earth spins around it. As each second stretches into a blissful infinity filled with colors and light that look like music sounds, you can talk directly with God about your problem. It's that easy.

CAEM: look into More Light churches (that may just be a Presbyterian thing, but other denominations may have similar organizations/labels/groupings)...

And to everyone who seems to have a hate-on about religious people? Yes, I know some Christians are self-righteous assholes who try to shove things down your throat (and not in a fun way), but others (like, say, my mom, who's been a deacon at her church) actually are reasonable, sane, intelligent people who do their best to do good in the world and quite frankly couldn't care *less* about what one consenting adult does with another consenting adult (barring cheating)...

And while, yes, I cannot prove that there is a higher power... you also can't prove that there *isn't* one, and it is not unreasonable to surmise that the various somewhat improbable events that led to us being here were nudged along by some kind of mind... and you also cannot prove that there is nothing of ourselves that continues after death. Perfectly reasonable of you to live your life under the assumption that there isn't, but it's also perfectly reasonable (provided you're not a fanatic about it) to live under the assumption that there *is* something that will Go On.

CAEM doesn't claim specifically to have a god-centered religion ( iread it and thought of non-christian religions only), so Dan's anti-catholic/anti-evangeticals rant complete with 'god doesn't exists'? I call BS. Bad form, old man.
I was tempted to also call BS on assuming CAEM is gay, but the 'celibacy/solitude' line lends you cred.

CAEM: you're an asshat; you can't discuss spiritual salvation with anyone, ANYONE, from your spiritual community?
Time to look for a new spiritual community for one thing: if they can't counsel something this, and yet hundreds of other churches can, you are in the wrong org for your soul's needs. Jump ship and find the one that matches your needs better.

Dan I heard you on "This American Life" speaking about your occasional Catholic Relapses. That being said, you could have been a little less harsh and expressed your opinion without being quite so harsh. I read your column because you give interesting and insightful advice. You might be 100% correct, but you came off as mean spirited and arrogant.

I believe that CAEM is gay, and here are my reasons. First, he writes to Dan of all people. He knows Dan is gay and he knows Dan is anti-religious. If he were straight, I'm assuming he would right to someone else. There would have to be something they have in common in order for him to seek advice from him. I don't go asking my straight guy friends for advice on sexuality or lesbian friends, it will be my gay or straight girl friends, and vice versa.
Secondly, just because he says he's thinking thoughts 20 year old men usually think, does not necessarily mean what it's meant to mean. He could be going off the fact that most people have homosexual thoughts or fantasies whether they mean to or not. We know that if it was regarding sleeping with women, he would have been more likely than not to find a tactful way to say it, as with masturbation (besides, I don't think there is eternal damnation for jacking off, you're just not supposed to, nor premartial sex). This is something this guy is ashamed and embarassed of, being gay is something a lot of religious people believe is a sin that will lead to burning in hell.
Or, he could have made that statement to justify his own thoughts by saying it's common for guys to think, or he could have purposefully added that to confuse readers.
I do feel the advice was a bit harsh, but sometimes you have to be harsh to get the point across. It can shock someone into waking the hell up and learning to live their life while they have the chance instead of sitting around being miserable.
But that's just my thoughts.

Person who was freaked out by those who think CAEM may have kid or animal urges: it's not homophobic to think that. Those are just three things people are conflicted about / socially censured. It doesn't equate them to hypothesize he might have 1 of the 3. Dan fields questions on all of them.

ROTFL at: "There is no God?? I think you are an idiot to state something you could not and do not know. I believe there most certainly is a God. Your the type who if you cant see it you dont believe it... You cant see air, but you know it's there right?"

Listen, it's possible that God is just silent and watching, but its possible Papa Smurf is a spirit as well. Thoughtful hardcore atheists like Dawkins will admit they can't rule out God, but emphasize the the evidence is FAR on the "no God" side. The ONLY stuff (I know of--educate me?) on the "yes God" side is the convenient hospitality of earth and characteristics of the universe--but if it were any other way, we wouldn't be here wondering. And to compare God to air? Seriously? You are aware that air can be felt, weighed, analyzed, partly combusted, liquified, vaporized, humidified, etc, right? Whereas for God, we just have the "everyone is wrong but me" attitude of hundreds of religions. C'mon.

In brief, we may not be able to know "for sure" but we certainly can be confidant that the weight of evidence is far to the "no God" side, just like I'm reasonably sure if I drop my keys they will accelerate toward the center of the earth. Don't imply "We're not sure" is a coin toss.

"For me to argue with ones who are set in thought is pointless for me to do."

1) And yet, here you are. Arguing. Or shall we discuss?

2) We're not set in thought. I've changed my mind on bunches of important issues; all it takes is evidence or at least some logic. If there is no evidence or logic, and we are talking about faith/certainty in things for which everything knowable points the other direction... well, there isn't much to argue or discuss if that's the case, right? Not because I'm closed minded but because I'm open minded, and you have nothing to add to my open mind.

I stopped taking people's word in fantastic, unseen, unknowable creatures and events long ago but what drove it home recently was hearing a rape victim describe how she identified the wrong guy despite being face to face with him the whole time. She admits she sees the innocent guy (released after DNA evidence) raping her when she imagines the assault.

Experience misled; science iluminated. And liberated. And then it caught the actual perp. But we can agree on peace and bles--er, well wishes.

What a dick. I used to like reading this column, but this guy wrote a decent letter asking for your help and you CRUCIFIED him. Aren't we all supposed to be 'open-minded' and 'respectful' of peoples beliefs and lifestyles Dan? ESPECIALLY if they're gay? I think so. In fact, it's rammed down our throats not to be so judgemental now-a-days. Maybe you should exercise the same open-mindedness and respect for religious people that you expect out of others toward your sexuality. If you didn't want to respond to this you could've put 'No Comment', instead of getting your panties in a knot.

What's with the juvenile, narrow-minded approach toward what Christians and Catholics are? They come in a large array- and I'm not sure, for example, how many soup kitchens and shelters exist among non-religious groups who meet on a regular basis and volunteer their time. Sure, it happens, but not on the same scale. You're anti-religion views sound like they're coming from a close-minded, melodramatic teen filled with apathy trying to shock everyone around him with personal "knowledge". This shit may drive up readership, for the shock value-- is that all this is? I don't think so. You want positive change for everyone- so let's see it, instead of this griping, huh?

138 is your typical xtian...when a hole is poked in their argument, they avoid discussing the point made and instead fall back on their brainwashing. Total avoidance.

Shomondo...it's call the Scientific Method. Go to college (though actually, I think they teach this in middle and high school these days). Study. Learn. Test. Verify!

Hey if you are christian, and you are mad at what Dan wrote: FORGIVE HIM HE KNOWS NOT WHAT HE DOES. And then read that part about not flaunting your prayers in public.

Can we all agree that whether or not there is a God, most of the people who claim to be christian in public are complete fucking hypocrites? Can we agree that teaching kids they will go to hell for sexual urges is child abuse, even though it's socially tolerated? Can we agree that most people who condemn others to hell are using the same circuits as people rooting for their sports team? Can we agree that any God that is so petty s/he cares about CAEM's sex life is a psychopathic tyrant who is not worth worshipping, no matter how hot a hell s/he will send you to? Can we agree that children absorb religion the same way they absorb the tooth fairy (regardless of the truth of the religion)?

It seems to me there should be lots of points of agreement for everyone regardless of what we all think about the existence of God.

I'm disappointed in your answer to CAEM, Dan. Your analysis of sex vs. humanity vs. religion was right on (may I use it in the future?), but you blew it by stating your opinion on the existence of a Supreme Being as if it were settled fact. It certainly is not. It's clear he's a Christian of some sort, so why didn't you suggest he attend a MCC service in his area? Or even a Unitarian or Quaker congregation, for crap's sake. (I attended a lesbian Quaker wedding in June, and it was a joyous event.) There's no reason to belittle him just because you think believers in a god are beneath you. Jeez.

anyone who believes that god is anything other than a myth born of human superstition is an idiot.

Good advice from Octopodes, plus I forgot to mention to CAEM one easy-to-read book that clarifies things well: What The Bible Really Says About Homosexuality, by Fr. Daniel Helminiak, Ph.D. Don't listen to Mr Me, who echoes the popular but very wrong stance, and take it from folks like Helminiak and yonush18. Helminiak actually has two Ph.D's, one in Bible and one in clinical psychology, and unlike many of the fire-and-brimstone Pat Robertson clones of the day, reads both Testaments in their original languages to analyze what's being said in the context of their times. I promise you you will come away from the book feeling better about yourself, the Bible, and your faith.

@49 - so, by that logic, closeted gays are more shy about expressing themselves than other sexuality minorities? WTF? / Inaccurate. Couldn't he be talking about screwing the pastor's wife, too?

@136: " If he were straight, I'm assuming he would right to someone else. "
So only gay people can be assumed to write to Dan? What, are you NEW here??

"There would have to be something they have in common in order for him to seek advice from him."
See above, AND: advice columnists are NOT defined that way: so then ann landers must have everything in common with the )people she helped? Miss manners must be as rude/crass/gauche as the ignorant masses that write to her? )
You are a circular logic troll. Go back to your loop-de-loop bridge.

@145 - you need to look up atheism and get the definition straight.
@146 - so you don't believe/know that some religions are businesses, and in those cases, god would be invented not to create a myth but to fleece people)? Now who's the idiot...?
@111: I'm still not seeing the full proof, in the letter as published, that CAEM's issue is homosexuality nor that his religion is christian. The issue could still be some taboo kink, or freaky style, adultery, pedaphilia, necrophilia, or swinger culture - many that would land them in hot water with their minister/flock.
- it's just not statedIf there's more to the letter, or if it arrived with pink triangles all over the envelope, then we'd have a little more to work with - - but as is, Dan comes off not smelling great to some readers.

@137 You get +10 Internet Religion Argument Points for mentioning Dawkins. WTG

@151: "I'm still not seeing the full proof, in the letter as published, that CAEM's issue is homosexuality nor that his religion is christian. The issue could still be some taboo kink, or freaky style, adultery, pedaphilia, necrophilia, or swinger culture - many that would land them in hot water with their minister/flock."

I fail to see how an urge toward adultery, swinger culture, or even kink would doom him to a life alone. It's not "adultery or nothing" for anyone I've ever heard of. He might want guys, kids, dogs, dead people or nothing, and that would make more sense. And where do I spend IRAP points?

"God gave us the urges, so he wouldn't have done that to one and let the other consent if it would lead to this Mythical Roasting Place."

I'm totally with you on the wonderfulness of your lesbian urges. BUT, the God of the Bible is a quirky, vindictive, and frequently nasty character. He demands blood sacrifice; he could very well give you an urge you're meant to resist (or, it's your sinful nature / somehow he didn't determine your urges despite being omnipotent). I agree that would make him an unsavory guy to worship, but I know you don't think people with unacceptable, say, violent, urges have God's blessing to follow them. What you realized, instead, was that religion is wrong headed and internally inconsistent--take the final step and toss out the idea of a God watching you and your lover in bed along with all the other nonsense the religion taught you.

Last I checked, there were multiple religions that condemn homosexuality. In fact, most of them do. Religion is kind of evil...

I am a new subcriber so be gentle. I just finished listening to a lovecast where the subject was a tg whose family wouldn't support their needs; financially or emotionally. I am a straight, married thirty-six year old who buys make-up, heels, dresses, and all the usual accoutrements every time I have to show up for "family circus". I never use any of this more than once. Is there someplace I can send it where a tg in this situation could use it? I also have two perfectly working cell phones that have been replaced by "updates" by my parents. Could these be sent anywhere beneficial to the the glbtg community?

wayne @108, while the revisions began before the body was cold may be an exaggeration, it's only a slight one. One of the reasons the Resurrection of Christ is so significant an issue (most denominations of Christianity require acceptance of the Resurrection as truth) is because it marks the clearest crux of revisionism. In the original tale, when Christ's empty tomb is discovered, the story ends; religion was supposed to be the domain of the individual and God, which drastically contrasted with the complex hierarchy that was accepted in early Judaism. Hence the story of the resurrection was made after the fact, in which the Church was established.

Shomondo @132, jeffsd @146 et. al. One of the problems of trying to prove the existence of God (beyond the issue of the nature of proof, that I discussed above) is the difficulty in getting everyone to agree on the God's qualities. If we define God as one and the same as the universe (or, as speculated in string theory the multiverse, for which we haven't a solidly defined name), then no proof is necessary, since cogito ergo sum equates to cogito ergo Deo. (please forgive my poor Latin.) Similarly, if we define a personal higher power (in the 12-step sense) as one's wise mind (the psychological construct), again we can presume it is there, since evidence of it is manifest. Once we start assigning properties to God to fit the biblical deities, however -- consciousness, omniscience, omnipotence, anthropomorphism, masculinity, interest in human affairs, etc. -- the likelihood of such a construct actually existing as described starts to rapidly decline. In fact, the degree of anthropomorphism described in the old testament counts as evidence that the biblical god is a construct of men, not the other way around. Human qualities emerge from the the nature of human existance. A god without the same needs we have would demonstrate an entirely different set of interpersonal qualities.

This idea, that God may be completely different to Its decription in religious texts is seldom address by the religious activists that seek to demonstrate God's existence. This is a noteworthy oversight, since it's not addressed by some of the strongest Christian-based fronts against science. The Discovery Institute, for example in the promotion of Intelligent Design Theory seeks to prove we couldn't have evolved through random mutations filtered by of a lot of time. They hope to, by doing so, prove the Judeo-Christian dogma. At very best, though, if they could find the signatures of our creators in our DNA, for example, they would only prove our exospermic origins, not that we were divinely created at all.

I would add, Shomondo, faith is less about belief and more about fealty, that is, loyalty to the divine despite how ridiculous it may seem. An Arabian adage illustrates it well, If at noon the caliph says it is midnight, behold the stars!

A relevant adage of a more recent time: Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. -- Voltaire

As for your declared knowledge of the divine I would paraphrase Dawkins in noting the human mind has a great capacity for interpretation.

Rev.Smith @151, why does yonush18 get Internet Religion Argument Points for mentioning Dawkins, but I do not? I mentioned him first.

presently out @155 the Abrahamic faiths, Judaism, Christianity and Islam have provisions against sex outside authorized unions, and to differentiate social and worship practices from those of other deities, which have been reinterpreted in contemporary times to proscribe gay relationships. But other than those, are there others? I'm not up on my Hindu dogma, but does it hold anti-gay commandments? Buddhism is notably flexible with their provisions and restrictions. How about Confucianism? Anyone?

I LOVE the acronym that 2nd letter used.

I would have told CAEM this:

Celibacy isn't going to work. All you have to do is google "priest scandal," read "Youth Pastor Watch," or just watch TV to learn that people who try and bottle up a sexual urge lose that fight over and over. ESPECIALLY people who are trying to be celibate (unless you get castrated. That works). Much like judo, if you don't use the momentum of your attacker (your sex drive) to your advantage, you will be crushed. In other words, if you don't find yourself in a mature relationship with another adult, you'll find yourself raping children or at the very least furiously jerking off to hardcore porn all alone in a basement, probably more than a little lonely and committing a sin anyway.

Since you're going to end up apologizing to God for sexual indiscretions one way or another, you might as well pick the ones that do the least harm to others and the most good for yourself.

"...if you don't find yourself in a mature relationship with another adult, you'll find yourself raping children..."

Repressed homosexuality (or heterosexuality) does not lead to pedophilia. Pedophilia is a pathological compulsion in its own right that starts at a young age. Youth pastor positions and priest positions don't turn people into pedophiles, pedophiles go into these areas because it gives them an opportunity.

Dan,

While you allude to the changes/revisions in doctrine, and the various resulting sects, it may be helpful to specifically instruct the faithful on the history of their own religions that is all too often a inconvenient lesson. For example the First Council of Nicaea where Christians agreed upon what would become canon, which gospels to include, and which dates to party. Hell, anyone who made the mistake of reading or watching The DaVinci Code should know this.

In the realm of sects, there are plenty of gay friendly churches that do not preach or attempt to convert gays into straights. Even if it's controversial, it's there.

Also, this cat might not be Christian. I know it's easy to get a hard on for Christians in America, especially as an atheist or other group commonly demonized by the Christians in America such as you deliciously dirty homos.

Maybe the kid is Sikh, or Muslim or a Jew. I suppose it doesn't matter, but I think we should not be jumping to conclusions as to his religion.

Dan, please don't tell me Santa Claus isn't real either, that would really ruin my day.

"Get over yourself, faggot."

Sometimes the best advice really is the shortest. Much like:

"Don't eat that."

"Compliment her shoes."

"Send a thank-you note."

"Repressed homosexuality (or heterosexuality) does not lead to pedophilia. Pedophilia is a pathological compulsion in its own right that starts at a young age. Youth pastor positions and priest positions don't turn people into pedophiles, pedophiles go into these areas because it gives them an opportunity."

The inconvenient truth is that you're right and partly wrong. Repressed homosexuality doesn't make pedophiles, but most of those priests weren't pedophiles.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ephebophili…

Lots of male adults lust after adolescents, whether male or female ones, whether they are straight or gay. I DO believe that being gay and tortured may make you choose priesthood and then the position and opportunity might predispose you to young, physically mature males. If you're a wreck a childlike but physically mature person is easier to relate to. Going into the priesthood just to bang some kids seems an awful lot of work and annoyance!

actually, I assume the guy from "Clever Acronyms Escape Me" is Mormon, not Catholic. While Catholicism hasn't totally embraced homosexuality, the focus on the "horrible fates too awful to mention" seems to be coming from a non-Catholic, Mormon-y source. If he were Catholic, he'd mainly be focusing on feeling guilty. . .

-Catholic, so I can say this

I'm hoping that HOMO doesn't always think that being gay means not having any grandkids - especially as he's writing in to a column by a writer who has written so candidly about being a gay parent.

If it's just controlling his hormonal urges, why not recommend Vitex (aka chaste berry)? Investigate it first, consult your physician first, etc... but maybe not being so pent up all the time could help the guy make more objective and rational choices.
And to answer the inevitable question, I do not support the propagation of ridiculous religious dogma. Religion is still just what it has always been.... a tool to provide order and structure for the masses. It scares the hell out of me to think what the world would be like if all of a sudden people everywhere realized that there were no cosmic consequences for their decisions and subsequent actions. I also don't want to destroy religion because human nature makes that impossible... just look at how well that worked in Communist Russia. I would rather change their views to incorporate more compassionate and rational values.
I don't mean to go off on a rant here... oh wait..

Pray Away,

You are doing the right thing!- Anyone intelligent will realize that everyone and everything has to come from some kind of creator! This is First place common sense. Wisdom (Basically the good fear of God) is a gift from God-not given to everyone-which prones you to seek that higher advice for a life lived to the fullest- a life well-lived..not just getting by, but with all God's protection(provision), blessing and True prosperity (The kind that doesn't end suddenly-for some unknown reason).You seem to be seeking so if you have Wisdom -be Proud of it. We know that sooner or later all scorners will be cowering for direction-from God-and that there's always that moment in their life when they all secretly pray ---God---Help ME!!!!!!--The good thing is that he does....So be Encouraged, Be strong and of a Good Courage-as the Bible says---For in Due season you Will have your reward!!!! A Good Reward!!!!! Lose the Bad Fear, Keep the Fear of God (Wisdom), Exhert yourself in Excellence (not perfection!) in the good things you love and are good at --GO after your dreams-including celebrating God in Church on Sunday!- Show him --You are the man who wants to get his approval!!!--and guess what?--You will---"He will chase you to bless you " !!!! "He will order his angels to take charge of you" He will keep you! Sometimes you will feel that you are getting near the perfect girl-- and that will fizz out--but don't be frustrated!--Remember, You're only getting nearer!--Keep pressing on " toward the mark" just like everything else in your life, --and while you are so busy enjoying yourself -- in Doing all the right things--all that Good energy will have to attract Good and The Designated one WIll APPEAR!!!!! Don't forget that awesome undertakings in history are the ones that made history--Such as King James--the man who opposed all --had the courage and strength by God to order that a version of the Bible (closer to the original Hebrew/Aramaic) be made in English from the Geneva translation (before the time Rome translated it into Latin-and some of its plain and simple meaning be lost in complicated translation... )He wanted every common man to be able to have his own Bible to study for himself... Because of this Rome chased him around, trying to kill him and any others who would separate from their religion. Thus, he sent the pilgrims on the Mayflower to colonize America so that simple, uncomplex Christianity would not be persecuted, but so that it could move on--And this is why our country was, in the beginning, the most blessed nation the world has ever known--BUt by the very liberty that we extended to the world, sadly, our own "American Christianity has become overshadowed by new religions practiced" even allowing Roman religions to be practiced-the very religion we as Americans once ran from in England...(read the Mayflower Compact) So if you fall on your way--take a moment--then get back up again!--- Straighten yourself up--"lift up your head"--and get back at it again!--WHo knows what Awesome things God has in store for you!!--WHen you have a great attitude like the one you have!--Praying for you and signing off for now!

@158: Uriel - I intended no slight, please excuse me: Same Internet Religion Argument points awarded to Uriel, plus 1 bonus point of Internet Whining Proficiency. Done. Also Kudos for the comment about the nature of the sin of Sloth; well done.

and pcelise : There are a few crumbs of wisdom in yer post, but the moldy bread surrounding it is toxic;
you are bragging about/lovin on King James? And his UK-politics-of-the-time-centric PR publishing scam? Seriously?

King 'I'm such a huge fan of the occult I hired Bill fawking Shakespeare to write about witches, Hecate, ghosts and fortune telling and then once the people were glassyeyed over the famous Scottish play, went on to sponsor his entire sex/violence-heavy theatre career with my taxing of the poor peasantry' James? King 'I claim two thrones, Scotland AND england, nay THREE: add ireland, because that's how I roll - big-balled and not trying to make up for any size issues elsewhere, yup, yessiree, trust me.' James? King 'the translators I hired put in little word games and jokes into the bible- like the 42nd psalm just as one example in a thousand- and I was okay with that because I play both sides if you know what I mean' James? King 'Inbred? what's inbred?' James? King 'I wrote the book titled DAEMONOLOGIE, - on how to burn innocent people at the stake for witchcraft ', James? King ' I inspired GUY FAWKING FAWKES & (the terrorism known as the gunpowder plot) because I was hated SO' James?
Yeah, ok.
If you want to revere the Paris Hilton of monarchs, the Carrot-Top of Theology literature, The Joan Rivers of duplicity, then go right ahead and have fun with that.
But methinks your theology needs some QC, Elise. Start by looking up the Hampton Court Conference and the Popish Recusants Act.
And yes, I'm a real reverend, an actual ordained minister, and not one of those mere cheap online knockoffs: I live good, I bring good works to the world, and my conversations with the Great Divine have yielded no evidence that King Jimmie the 6th of Scotland nor the HCC had any business touching the revelations in the Hebrew Bible. Their translation was foremost designed to show off English as a language, promote the pope-hating Church of England and -to a reduced extent- the Puritans (who primarily made up the HCC), and re-inforce the divine right of kings (Jimmie especially) to rule : not to bring more good to the world.
No thanks. Find god in your heart, not in a book.

King James was still human, but this just proves that even in all our imperfect humanity-if we at least try to lean towards God's higher understanding-and have the right attitude--God Still Used King James== Word!God can use anyone or anything he wants to.. NO one is imperfect to God.

Dear Pray Away
This will set you free:
Matthew 23:9
1 Timothy 4:2-3
Psalms 115:4-8--GOd loves you -his ultimate creation-Man. He has a wonderful mate for you to enjoy all your life with-as seen in all the pattern of life and creation..(A woman!) He thinks you smarter than for you to believe you can talk to wood or metal and think that it will hear you, and yes you can enjoy a wonderful carne asada with your Girl too!

Whats the difference between Faith and Religion???
Faith is beliving in God, Religion is man made bullshit!

As someone who is extremely catholic with a gay godfather and who worked to try to keep ref 71 off our ballots I'm a little offended that you just assume the closeted gay kid is catholic. Its much more probable that the kid is mormon or crazy evangelical.

personally, I believe that the campaign against inequality in the sex battles of gay rights and sloggers the world over starts somewhere in the intollerance of slang useage and VERY HIGH ADVERTISING BILLS AND DISPROPORTIOATE WAGE PACKAGING!!!

you see schismatics.... houston has been calling and the Weekly has the answer.

p.s., don't forget to change your name savage.

Sorry to y'all for breaking the cozy little consensus, but I think Dan completely dropped the ball and let his own issues get in the way of responding to someone who came to him for help.

To Dan: Congratulations on coming out of the closet. I had wondered on and off whether you were “this way” for a while, but had not seen you show your true colors until now. At last, you have proudly shown yourself to be a bitter, bigoted anti-religionist hypocrite.

Your “God = the Blue Fairy” remark in last week’s column was a big confirmation, but your real coming-out party happened about a month ago when you replied to a young man who is struggling with his deeply-held desire to live chastely for religious reasons.

Dan, this kid came to you warily but with hope, looking for the help he was told only you could give him, on how to live his sexuality in the way he chooses to. He is making a countercultural choice not to let his sexual desire run his life and define his character, and instead to live without genital contact. His choice is different (wayyyyyy different) from your own conventional viewpoint, that one’s sexual proclivities define him and that life cannot be happy without indulging them. You might have noted your differences and still given him support, access to resources, the names of groups who affirm their sexual orientation but try to live it out chastely. You might have tapped into your vast knowledge about having sex, and looked for some tips on what to do if a person chooses not to. You might have at least treated the kid with respect and dignity.

Instead you slammed into him with all the vindictive vitriol you feel towards religion, and let him be your whipping boy in place of all those horrible people who dare to disagree with you about what constitutes immorality. You mocked his choices and ridiculed his beliefs. You feigned an openness to pro-gay Christianity, then insultingly declared God dead (on the authority of John Lennon). You were anything BUT “GGG” when it came to responding to his situation; instead you insisted on reframing his problem to suit your values.

God doesn’t hate fags, Dan. But Jesus got pretty pissed-off at bigots and hypocrites. Congrats on having the courage to show yourself to be one. Sign me

Sick of Hearing Anti-Religious Propaganda.

PS When sex and religion are pitted against each other, “Religion always loses,” you said. “Always.” Oh really? So, when religion tells a husband or wife not to fuck the neighbor, religion loses? When religion tells someone to reign in that mix of lust and rage that can end in rape and violence, religion loses? When religion tells a person to save their sexual expression as the ultimate form of intimately giving oneself to another, to be given only to the man or woman to whom they give their whole selves for the rest of their life in marriage, religion loses? Always? There have been no priests, nuns, monks, brothers, or consecrated lay people – no single people trying to live chastely in accordance with God’s desire as they understand it, who have lived full and happy lives? No one has ever managed to avoid fucking their brains out before being married? Ever?

Or could it be that you are limiting your frame of reference to your own experience, among your own circle of friends, in your own tiny uber-hedonistic subculture, with your like-minded colleagues who all have made the same decision to drink the Freudian-Flavored Kool-Aid that says no life has meaning without genital sex, and they (if you’ll pardon the Biblical reference) “seek to justify themselves”?

@186, you might want to actually try reading the comment you respond to before launching into a multi-paragraph tirade.

First, your suggestion that this kid is expected to be celibate for no other reason than he was born into a bigoted, homophobic cult is beyond idiotic. By that logic a Muslim woman is expected to just bend over and take it if her husband decides, without her consent, to take on more wives? This kid didn't say he can't have "genital contact", he said he has to have no romantic contact with anyone, ever, just because of an accident of being born into the wrong religion. He isn't choosing to "live his sexuality", he's choosing to reject it.

Dan wasn't making this kid a "whipping boy", he was telling CAEM to try and have it all, religion and sex, instead of having to settle for one for no good reason at all. As for "insultingly declaring God dead", you do understand the concept of a joke, right? I mean, you clearly have no sense of humor, but you do know what it is.

As for sex vs. religion. Dan was referring to it in the context of self-denial of all sexual urges (including auto-erotic), not just "genital contact". For the record, people make the decisions regarding rape, infidelity and abstinence based on personal feelings, beliefs and fear of potentially adverse consequences. Not solely based on petrifying fear of the invisible kid in the sky with a magnifying glass burning them into a cinder.

The only person seeking to "justify themselves" her is you. If you want someone to tell you you're right, seek a less open minded, audience. I hear Anne Coulter is always listening.

Pandorum is everywhere!
Santorum is everywhere!