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I also don't think Levi was truly homophobic, just ignorant. He's dumb and opportunistic (like George W. Bush), but he doesn't seem outright evil (like Phelps).
Never. Everyone should just mind their own business. OOMOW's business needs to be not sleeping with guys in relationships, and she doesn't need to expand her business into dramatic confrontations and wedding sabotage. OOMOW does not have adequate information to make or second guess life-decisions for the other women.
Now that you've told OOMOW exactly how she should handle the situation, my guess is that she won't take either decent option (tipping off the fiancee in person or anonymously). Please let us know how this one plays out in future, if possible.
and to #5...oh yes they have!
As for the last letter, speaking of heteros watching same-sex porn, has anyone else read the research study that compared the quality of sperm between men watching heterosexual porn and lesbian porn? I'm sure a lot of people have, because the news spread across the interwebs pretty quickly. As it turns out, watching hetero porn improves a man's virility. It's because he sees the other man in the video as competition, so he produces better quality sperm to better his odds at impregnating a woman. I cannot be the only person that knows this. I read it on Pharyngula:
http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2006/…
Apparently, the more men present in a porno, the better a heterosexual man's quality of sperm. I wonder though, maybe the men watching lesbian-sex produced lesser quality sperm because they are not very comfortable with homosexuality ... as unfavorable that conclusion may be. I also wonder what would happen if they tested this on homosexual men ... would they find the same thing? More men in a video means better quality sperm all around? I don't fucking know, I don't know what goes through a man's head while they watch porn ... but a girl can wonder. A girl can wonder.
Dan's response to OOMOW is what I read Savage Love for. Dishonest, cheating FUs put in their place.
1) STFU, or
2) Tip off CPOS' girlfriend, in person, or at least over the phone, and then prove she still has a few shreds of dignity left by never speaking to CPOS again, ever.
Of course, if she had enough backbone to cut CPOS out of her life, she would have a long time ago. So that basically just leaves option 1.
Oh, and women in straight porn totally have annoying voices. Are there guys that are actually turned on by high-pitched faker-than-fake moaning? I always mute that shit. Ugh.
I would say she should either 1) STFU or 2) Make the CPOS come clean. Tell him that she'll say something if he doesn't, but give him the chance to be honest about it first. If I were the fiancee, I'd rather hear it from my boyfriend with the subtext that he's trying to be honest and put his bad conduct behind him... then there's at least some chance of rebuilding trust, because it looks like he cares enough to start the marriage right.
ps. for proper inspiration, OOMOW should watch the Star Trek: TNG episode The First Duty, in which Patrick Stewart lays down the law on integrity and coming clean.
Oooo, Dan! You read my mind! I would love both to see the porn, and to see that "lady" driven crazy (-er) :D
If she tells naive fiancee (NF) anonymously, NF won't believe it and will go ahead with the wedding anyway. When a woman is in "wedding-mode", sound advice goes out the window.
She should really think about what she wants and what is motivating her. If she wants him, then tell him! Put the ball in his court, but don't warn him you're going to tell her. That will only make him think of something to say to NF to head OOMOW off at the pass. It's all just a big ball of crap. Extract yourself from it, and don't talk to any of them. Find other, better quality friends.
Who still thinks the Left lost the culture wars? We freakin' WON, people! And we will win, forever, because our culture is popular culture!
I'm a professional editor, so I always notice typos, and this is the first time I've ever seen one in Dan's column. Mazel tov on your staff's fallibility, dude!
I spend way too much time on teh Intarwebz.
Still laughing at that. Priceless.
Just as you would, honey, if you got half the chance, thereby signing yourself up for more of the same shit-cake he's serving up to her. Walk away---and count yourself lucky. And be a little more selective, OK?
It seems to me that her fantasy is that the fiance learns of the affair and breaks off the engagement. So, if the "man-whore" returns to the "good girl," good girl wins. If the "man-whore" doesn't return but is hurt by the breakup, "the good (vindictive) girl" still wins.
The problem is that that fantasy presupposes that the fiance isn't doing precisely what the good girl has been doing for several years--making rationalizations or turning a blind eye to the reality of her relationships. I mean, c'mon, "good girl's" been cheating with someone who she claims is a "friend" but who she also clearly holds in contempt (gotta love that) and, during that whole time, convincing herself that she is "good." By what measure? (What a way to treat your friends--keeping them mired in drama and then pointing to that drama as evidence of their moral inferiority.)
Is there a psychological term for projecting onto your sexual competition the backbone you wish you had???
She ain't gonna say shit to anyone - other than whatever it takes for her to keep getting the FWB action. She is ultimately too chicken to either sabotage the upcoming marriage or walk away from the whole mess. I predict this because it is the easiest course of action for her. Sooner or later, the bride to be will be writing to Dan - or, God forbid, Abby.
And the awful moaning noises most women make in porn is criminal. I want to hear sexy noise, but when they're super-shrill and shrieking "oh, yoh, yoh" at the top of their voices or just sounding like they're being subjected to uncomfortable medical procedures, it's a dreadful turn-off. Mute.
There are bi guys who will do that for you. My boyfriend is one of those "I like sleeping with men but can't fall in love with them" bi guys. Which works out great for me, we have a great relationship, a great sex life, and he is more than happy to satisfy my need to see guys hooking up. Don't worry, I do favors for him too (:
And there you have it.
There is no "faithful" in a FWB relationship. That's what makes them FWB, and not simply a boyfriend or girlfriend. She wants to come off as open and GGG, but yeah, she's either deluding herself or she's a fully aware manipulator and hypocrite.
I am sure you can find plenty of fresh material for the column from the thousands of emails you receive every day.
You answering someone has probably the same odds as winning the lottery so just make someone's else's day instead of the same person twice.
When the lack of information may markedly effect how someone proceeds and has the potential for painful consequences, it is part of our obligation to care for each other, to speak up...
- You dropped something.
- Your house is on fire.
- Isn't that your kid?
- I'm calling from inside the house.
- Your fiancée's dick appears to be in a lot of other women.
Certainly, it would be better if this information was always provided altruistically and not as part of some manipulative fantasy, but the option to make an informed choice still has it's own intrinsic worth.
Wow. Ya think?
Been there. It felt like a booty call because it was one. Those times when it didn't feel like a booty call where when you were deluding yourself into thinking that you were The One He Really Cared For. As you now know, not only were you not TOHERCF, but he's not even much of a friend. Walk away, feel lucky you finally wised up, and get over it.
The good girl is the one he is marrying. He has a madonna/whore complex, where only madonnas are good enough to marry, and whores are for screwing. Madonna may be utterly naive, or more likely she fully appreciates her position and has already told him she just doesn't want to know about what else he does. Dan is spot on about looking at your real motives. And give up on building a relationship with him. In this game, you are a whore, not a madonna.
- Been There.
I think saying that It's 'None of her business' and she should 'STFU' is a cop-out. I don't expect her to do the right thing, but I think the right thing is informing the fiancee - At that point, the fiancee has more information on which to decide whether to DTMFA.
The surprise is that since Dan usually says monogamy is not a realistic choice for most couples, that with this advice he seems to take for granted that an assumption of monogamy is the default mode for heterosexual relationships. I say he's not a cheater unless he has made a vow to 'foresake all others'.
No matter whether the couple breaks up or stays together, neither one of them will want to have anything to do with you again. Even if you're blameless 9which OOMOW isn't) you will still be a painful reminder.
I have to disagree w/Dan. She shouldn't say anything to the fiance. She (OOMOW) has caused enough problems. ("good girl" my aunt fanny!). She should simply never talk to either one again. Period.
Jesus, OOMOW, this sounds exactly like a situation I just went through. Maybe I'm one of your Many Other Other Women. If so, do what I did: I told the fiancee, provided ample proof, and walked away. Was I vindictive? Sure. But it felt good. And you know you want to do it, too. Don't pretend you're doing this for her benefit, though. This isn't a UN humanitarian mission. It's all about you wanting him to pay for his shitty behavior.
However, don't be surprised if they stick together (a week after my confession, I spotted the happy couple strolling arm-in-arm past the winter squash at the farmers' market). She probably already knows about his extracurricular activities, OOMOW. For some women, having a man in their life, even if he's a CPOS, is more important than having dignity.
Just sayin'.
There are only two ways that the fiancee should find out about CPOS's activities. Either CPOS tells her directly or CPOS screws up and leaves a trail that takes minimal detective work to find out he is a CPOS. This has the additional benefit of OOMOW's fantasy of being the good girl intact should the fiancee catch CPOS with OOMOW; who can then play innocent woman who did not have a CPOS was married.
This is why it is SO much easier to be an HND.
"In women, a high sex drive is associated with in-
creased attraction to both men and women." (Gender, Nature, and Nurture, Richard A. Lippa, 2006, 2007).
As in "having been twunk", "getting twunk after the bar" etc.,...
Also, the past tense of "twinking" someone.
"When Justin got into a hissy and moved out, taking most of my clothes and all my Xanax, I realized I'd been twunk."
You seem to be confusing default setting with "ideal setting" or "correct setting".
Until we have a major cultural shift, because most people expect monogamy from people they are dating sexually, it is cheating to not provide that, unless if a different understanding is reached. That is to say, exactly as you did, that monogamy is the default.
Now, if the relationship is set up outside these norms, such as by not actually dating (just booty calls) or by becoming the "other", then the default wouldn't hold.
Oh well, good to know that this hetero female is not alone!
@55, oh I'm well familiar with slash fiction;) I was a connoisseur of the Harry Potter slash world for a couple of years, which did have a number of nice "straight but lets experiment" stories and art (ironically I never liked Harry/Draco, its most iconic pairing!). Still, I would love to see a video with that premise, with a little more verisimilitude in it than the average porn. I need to imagine it's something that could happen in real life ;)
I'm with @3: Leave his sorry ass, don't look back, and pity his clueless, also-cheated-on wife-to-be.
And then get over it.
Speaking as the piece-of-ass-on-the-side for a married man that likes to get his kink on with me because wifey is uber-vanilla...
I know it's morally wrong to be fucking around with a married man. However, when said married man didn't tell me up front when we started hooking up that he was engaged, any guilt I might have had about the situation went right out the window. Sure, once I found out, I could have said no dice, but the sex is good and I know he's getting his freak on elsewhere besides my bedroom too. I've not been the dishonest one in the situation, thus I see myself as one of the lesser of all involved evils. She'll either wise up to what he's doing or she won't - I sure as shit won't be getting involved enough to tip her off, as it's ultimately between them, IMO.
Until then, as morally wrong as it might be, I'll continue to enjoy my infrequently hot and kinky sexings. :3
You girls are WEIRD for being ashamed of this. Seriously, what's the big deal? Gay porn for straight girls seems like the most normal thing in the world. Two dicks are better than one. Duh. What, society is down with accepting two girls making out(guys have no shame about admitting this), but two guys doing the same is *gasp* taboo??
Seems to me it all stems from societal homophobia against gay men. Don't fucking buy into that shit. All my boyfriends know about my passion for the GP and accept that my hard drive will be permanently stacked with seancody.com. They either get with the program or they're gone.
(Technically, I know you're perfectly correct ... but every day we're redefining "kinky" means.)
Thank you very much for the heads-up on the Playgirl website, Dan! I had indeed been unaware of its existence! I just wish that "sexy" wasn't ONLY defined as "between 18 and 28, with no body hair". If I see evidence of some variety, I'll join the site. And if anyone has recommendations for where to find pictures of hot dudes... I'm all ears!
Sorry, 'good girls' would write this sort of 'pay attention to me' letter. Good girls do not get themselves in this situation to begin with; if by accident they did, they would move on, embarrassed and ashamed. No doubt having some previous relationship issues, this girl's delusional fantasies of 'homewrecking' the upcoming nuptials seem to point to the fact that she sees herself and CPOS ultimately winding up as a viable couple - too bad there's still one last obstacle in the way (but she's easy enough to get rid of, right?).
Unfortunately, OOMOW doesn't realize that if this was the case, CPOS wouldn't have put her in the back seat to begin with. She doesn't explain the context of their romances either - drunk? Was she overly forceful? Why can't she find her own man, and instead relies on preying on other happily involved men? Sorry, I'm not buying this guise of 'goodness' - in essence she is no better than he, if not worse, because he realized it was a flash in the pan, and has most likely reformed his ways (maybe their previous relationship recently got much more serious), whereas her pettiness remains. Sorry, this is not Hollywood - bursting in on the wedding and screaming infidelity will not get you the man, it will get you branded as the crazy, delusional homewrecker that you are. The excuse of "not wanting her to get hurt" is ridiculous. If this were true, you wouldn't have cheated with him in the first place.
TLDR: Go find yourself another CPOS; there's lots available. Let this one move on and drop your holier than thou attitude - it's sickening.
And then the porn. Another reason I prefer it to heterosexual porn is that it's often (not always) more consensual-seeming. Hetero porn always comes across like the woman is being used. And yes, fake. Women coming when the guy hasn't done anything except plunge away.
Am I ashamed of likeing gay porn? Not. I showed some of my stuff to FWB above one evening, and he started getting hard and told me not to tell anyone (laughing at himself). If you show your BFs/husbands "bi" MMF threesomes, they can always claim they're looking at the girl ; )
I get chills every time he dresses down Ensign Crusher. It's a high point of the series. (Plus it sets up the final disposition of Westley later in the series when he "defects"....
The health and emotional well-being of the innocent bystander is the primary priority in a situation like this. I can't believe people would just let this poor woman walk right into a bad scene without giving her the benefit of making an INFORMED decision. If the fiancee knows, decides to forgive, and THEN gets a disease - well - then it's HER responsibility.
What the fuck does that even mean?
I witnessed a similar situation with a male friend who proposed to his LT g/friend, she said she'd go away to family to weekend to think it over. he calls up old flame/part time lover, and has a weekend sex-athon with her. LT comes back says "Yes".
we all thought we should alert his new fiancée to his behavior but keep it zipped. AND... they have now been happily married for 24 years with 2 children, and still very much together.
leave things alone. not your business.
It's easy to justify outing the CPOS if you don't stay in a relationship with him, especially if you out yourself to the fiancee to make it a little more likely to remain permanent (of course, changing addresses, phone numbers, and emails will also be best).
But men like this tend to be very charming and convincing and have an amazing ability to keep sucking women back in to their manipulative psychodramas, so it probably wouldn't end his current engagement anyway. Plus they have some weird compulsion to keep the drama rolling, almost like they're trying to inflict as much pain as possible and then try to use their charms draw the hurt-ees back in. When the worst CPOS I've ever known finally decided to get engaged to "the woman of his dreams", he invited to his very next party every single woman he'd slept with during the 4 months of his current relationship, as well as his most recent ex before that, who he'd scarred very badly. I made sure not to arrive before she left, and we all ruined his day by NOT making any scenes while she was there. After she left the party we bashed him around the chiminea, and I still remember the creepy look of satisfaction on his face while we did it, as if our hatred and abuse were the only ay he could feel loved.
So the only real downside to outing him is that it will probably feed some weird need he probably has to feel like crap, to treat people like crap, and them charm them back.
I don't have any suggestions on a word for gay-objectification of physical types.
BUT!
I think the term "Fluffer Nutter" is a phrase that is just *dying* for a gay-slang definition.
So Savage Love readers, just what _is_ a "Fluffer Nutter"? A kind of sex act? A physical type? Something more???