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I'm kind of fascinated that it's her arms and not, say, her thighs that cause this reaction - and that it didn't manifest itself until the age of 30! PS: Whatever position she's using, I want to know about it.
Something like 2/3 of my team got orgasms, or at least exquisite stimulation from this exercise. (Sadly, I was not one of them - I just got a 6-pack) So go for it, ladies. Hope it works for you.
It's columns like this that made me fall in love with Dan Savage in the first place!
Simple questions. Simple answers. Snark delivered free of charge.
Thanks Dan... complicated shit and political shit are fine now and then (and even really cool now and then) and it's your column and you should do what you want, but please, I humbly request that you don't keep stuff like this TOO far apart.
And, minor detail, but did WWDD say she was married?
Hell another 300!!
damn, wish I could have an orgasm from lifting weights... I'd be able to enter body contests...
I suggest weights at home and entering body building competitions....
A) A man who looks at pictures of naked people and doesn't lie about it
B) A man who lies
All of it.
"A Canadian researcher said he had to cancel a pornography study because he could not find any adult men who had never viewed sexually explicit material."
Secondly, I can also relate to NOPE and was surprised by my own reaction. I love porn myself. I have a large old school collection of it since the days of VHS. I used to watch porn with my guy friends in college, etc. No big deal. And I don't have a problem if my bf watches porn when he's alone or talks about porn with me. But in my presence, him watching porn gives me a full-on nervous breakdown sort of response--crying, shaking, horrible. I have no idea why. Oh, and the best part is that this only happens if the porn has women in it (and I'm a lady, obvs)--gay male porn, no prob. My best guess is that there's some sort of subconscious insecurity like "oh-I'm-never-going-to-look-like-a-porn-star-why-am-I-not-enough-for-you" sort of thing that isn't logical or rational or something I experience in daily life. Sometimes, emotional responses are just not within our control, and so I think we should sympathize with her instead of painting her as unrealistic, prudish, or frigid, especially when we don't really know her deal.
And it is also related to Dan's advice to WWDD. What Dan should have mentioned (and didn't, because he said it many times before) is that the whole mind-cheating thing is total bullshit! A person should never feel guilty about *wanting* someone else -- such a desire is both good and natural. As long as you don't act on these feelings, they are nobody's buisness...
And there's also the problem of getting your clit pinched between your fingers and his thrusts. Ouch. I've not yet found any position that completely avoids that risk.
I think it's true that once you have a relationship with porn yourself, you are more likely to understand how your partner relates to porn and so stop being bothered by it so much. That's why the more mainstream advice that couples should try watching the man's favourite porn together is so off base. Making even their partnered sex revolve around the male participant's private fantasy life? Yeah, that doesn't really sound equitable or mutually fulfilling.
Your dad watches porn, so does your brother, your boss (if they are male), your uncles, your grandad, the nice guy at the grocery store, the sweet elderly widower next door. You have a choice to make. Either they are all disgusting or your view of porn is untenable.
Dan often says that people need to get themselves to a place where they are capable of being date material. If you find watching porn to be equivalent to cheating, you are not in a place where you can be with men. The only kind of guy who you can be with is the kind who can lie effectively. I disagree with Dan on this; he should not be unleashing someone onto the dating pool who will go into full meltdown, freak-out at something this trivial.
Otherwise you need to relax and find a guy who you can sit down and explain that porn repulses you. Then you DO NOT demand they not consume it but DO demand that a very strict Don't ask Don't tell be enforced and they will keep any consumption private and discreet. That's as good as you're going to get.
Bodies sure are weird.
Your mileage my vary.
Ten years down the road, I've got my own porn collection and realize that such things have nothing to do with respect or politics but that it's just FUN. Porn is fun. Getting off is fun. I would wager (and hope) that NOPE is in her teens, and that given a few years she'll mellow out.
I suggest ICC get comfortable enough to show her partner by actually going solo in front the partner. And I'm willing to bet some of her partners, if not most, will REALLY love it when she does.
Ten years down the road, I've got my own porn collection and realize that such things have nothing to do with respect or politics but that it's just FUN. Porn is fun. Getting off is fun. I would wager (and hope) that NOPE is in her teens, and that given a few years she'll mellow out.
I used to feel threatened by porn when I was younger but then I started watching/reading it myself and also, when I had this relationship with a man who wanted so much more than sex from me...porn wasn't threatening my entire sense of worth...
Before? There was such a time?
I snark. But I can't really think of a time when "most" men subsisted without some kind of pornography (except perhaps before the invention of the printing press). Keep in mind that the definition of "porn" differs from period to period and culture to culture. What we find tame now and here could be pretty pornographic or at least served a pornographic *purpose* at some other time and in some other place.
And I think we're all pretty aware there are exceptions, but the *point* of aggressively asserting that guys look at porn is to accept that it's common and natural and plenty of relationships are completely healthy and fulfilling in its presence.
If a guy really doesn't look at porn, good for him. Really. I totally believe such men exist. But such a guy is rare enough that it's unproductive to obsess about his type unless your partner watching pornography just completely DESTROYS you (*even* on his own time, even if he's satisfying you completely).
his (estranged, crazy) father showed him some porn movies at an early age in a misguided attempt at male bonding. he has a horrible association as a result, and never goes near the stuff.
so yeah, there some guys out there who don't like porn but it probably doesn't have much to do with an all-consuming monogamous bond with their significant other.
Now here I am, a disgusting number of years later, and I watch porn on my own sometimes, I know he does too, and we've passed a number of lovely evenings watching porn in bed together. That said, I still sometimes get a twinge of discomfort when we watch porn together or he mentions something he saw. Truth be told, I have actually become incredibly nauseous when watching porn with him on occasion, usually when watching a fetish video (fisting, pegging with incredibly large toys) even though the videos depict things we incorporate into our sex life!
When it happens I just focus on a spot above the screen, and pretend to watch, or go down on him as a means of escape. I'm trying to be GGG here, and I would never ever ask him not to watch porn (not since I was a 15 year old idiot anyway)but my point is, even with the best of intentions, it's not always as easy as "just get over it, men watch porn." I wish it was!
Now I'm gonna go find some porn I think is hot for tonight.
I am in a relationship with a man who doesn't really like porn. I believe him when he says this for a number of reasons: 1) He knows I wouldn't care if he did. 2.)We're not monogamous anyway. Just as I fuck other men sometimes, he fucks other women sometimes. It would be a very strange man indeed he feels the need to conceal his partiality to watching videos of other people fucking but not his partiality to actually fucking other people from his partner, for fear of her feeling threatened or jealous. Particularly when she's got similar inclinations.
But his feelings about porn or really pretty similar to mine. We're both visually stimulated, we've both watched porn ON OCCASION, we both would be totally open to porn if porn weren't so ridiculous. But watching bored-looking women screaming unrealistically and then sit there waiting for the money shot with their mouths wide open like they're at the dentist (and looking like they're enjoying themselves about as much as if they actually were) is just not very sexy. Waste of a great concept.
So yes, Dan. There are men who don't like porn. And not all of them are under the the thumb of some controlling shrew who has them so thoroughly brainwashed that they feel the need to anonymously report their lack of interest in porn to strangers. You've got some seriously problematic assumptions here, about women as well as men.
Bout porn...here's a crazy nugget for you. I'm a porn-loving woman in love with a porn hating man. He doesn't know about my habit, because we're in a long-distance thing. I think he believes it's demeaning to women, and therefore to him if he watches it. Plus, he has a daughter. I do think that factors in.
Mostly, I look at things I'd probably never do, like threesomes, DP, that sort of thing. But with all the searchable things and urban dictionary definitions for sex acts, there's one thing I can't find, and I crave. I love to see a woman having her pussy licked while she's getting fucked. It's a rare find, especially to see it with two men performing it on her. Anyone know where I can A. Find more of this, and B. find the name of this act?
not care if the guy you're with watches porn.
(tru story sis)
You're right and it makes me want to puke. The culture says that lesbians are just in need of a "deep dicking" all the damn time, but in a relationship between two lesbians, it's pretty easily laughed off. In a situation like this though... it's kind of true. Which, like I said, PUKE.
When you hear messages all the time that as a woman, you could never really meet a female partner's needs, and all that crap is confirmed in your relationship, it can cut you way more deeply than if sexual orientation weren't a factor. It doesn't make the bisexual women involved bad people or anything like that, but it sucks that lesbians are labeled biphobic if they admit that their partner's leaving them for a man, or cheating on them with a man, hurts more. In our Almighty Cock enshrining culture, experiencing something like this is castrating. Or the female version thereof... I'll let you ponder why there's no common word for that.
I'm totally into squirt porn and anything where the women involved seem to be genuinely enjoying themselves. But there's plenty of porn out there that makes women's pleasure not simply irrelevant but positively anathema to the guy's satisfaction. Now, let's be clear - I often get off on being tied up and choked until I orgasm. I'm not talking about images of BDSM. I'm talking about porn that represents a pervasive, normalized attitude of casual violence towards women. I'm talking about porn that effaces the subjectivity, the personhood, of the woman being fucked.
Surely we can discriminate here? After thoughtful conversation I'd be likely to break off a relationship with a guy who wanted to watch aggressive ass-to-mouth action for example, but I'll happily enjoy some pre-fucking mutual masturbation while watching porn in which all participants seem to be getting their needs met. But, if women have only seen their lovers watching the porn that renders women's active desires unnecessary and distracting, is it any wonder that they have reactions of visceral distress?
OK - all that, simply to point out it might help NOPE to get some advice that's less judgmental. No need to react to her with the kind of reflex criticism she's currently dishing out to her lover.
I am generalizing, of course. But it's not as if porn is made or viewed in vacuum (insert fleshlight joke here).
Wow, #59. It must really suck to lack the basic imagination necessary to picture hot things inside your mind instead of getting them spoon-fed to you by a magazine or computer screen.
I've had several partners who weren't especially into porn; they preferred their own fantasies, which unlike porn are custom-made and can be called up anywhere, anytime, at a moments' notice.
When guys say that every guy watches porn, that strikes me as self-justification. All guys do not watch porn. Most do, probably, but not all.
I wonder why you don't supply the same hatred towards the non-erotic literary and multimedia industries. After all, they also supply things so that your imagination does not have to do all the work itself. It, of course, couldn't be because you are sex-negative.
Since any erotic imagery of any kind, whether produced purely inside your brain or seen through your eyes, is porn, then yes, any human with a basic, functional sex drive utilizes porn.
@60 Your argument assumes that there are men who do not utilize any kind of erotica/porn/internal mental imagery. Since this is nonsense, your argument is also nonsense.
As for ICC, "vagional" is an understandable typo, as o is right next to i on QWERTY keyboards. The other ones, not so much, particularly when most major browsers (and mobile devices) support inline spell-check. Additionally, most people in this country do not know "standard" prescriptive American written English. In fact, many of my college PROFESSORS regularly confused 'who' and 'whom' (this is a REALLY simple rule - 'who' is a subject and 'whom' is an object, always, no exceptions), and 'which' and 'that' (and 'that which'), among many other errors. Hell, Dan switches 'me' and 'I' all the time on the podcast (not in his writing; he has an editor, I presume), so he's hardly one to talk. Still, that was a notable number of spelking errors, but all of that is going to have more to do with the abysmal state of education in this country than individual ability.
So take heart ICC: maybe you can improve your spelling skills AND sex skills as college progresses. The masturbating-with-the-other-person-in-the-room thing is great idea: it will help you figure out whether you can't cum because of nerves or some other psychological block, or whether it's a matter of figuring out and effectively communicating the mechanics of the types of partnered sex that will get you off.
1 : the depiction of erotic behavior (as in pictures or writing) intended to cause sexual excitement
2 : material (as books or a photograph) that depicts erotic behavior and is intended to cause sexual excitement
3 : the depiction of acts in a sensational manner so as to arouse a quick intense emotional reaction
Do one's internal fantasies amount to the same thing as pornography? Pretty much, at least from the "both of these things constitute getting off to people other than one's partner" standpoint. But the word pornography specifically refers to pictures, films, writing, etc.
The poster who said he's not into pornography is therefore stating that he's not into pictures, films, writing, etc. that graphically portray sex. When you accused him of not having any kind of sex drive, etc., I naturally assumed you were asserting that anyone with a sex drive must need to look at sexual photographs, movies, or writing in order to get off. If you were trying to make the point that fantasies and pornography are basically the same thing, you could have said "fantasies and pornography are basically the same thing". You know, in your outside voice.
"I wonder why you don't supply the same hatred towards the non-erotic literary and multimedia industries. After all, they also supply things so that your imagination does not have to do all the work itself. It, of course, couldn't be because you are sex-negative."
Please show me where I said that I hate pornography. It seems you're the one with the reading difficulties...
You are really stretching the definition of porn here. I think it is pretty clear that when most people talk about being anti-porn, they are referring to something which has actually been produced - video, photos, writings, etc. - and not something which was simply imagined as part of a fantasy. And I doubt that most people who say "I don't use porn" or "I don't enjoy porn" are saying "I don't use (or enjoy) sexual fantasy."
Maybe not *all* men watch porn. Maybe porn is constructed in your very own head. Dan's very valid point is that she can't be the thought police. Either she gets the fuck over it, she leaves in search of the rare man that doesn't like porn, or her partner (whether current or future) learns to hide his porn from her and she doesn't go looking for it.
She doesn't say that her bf asks her to watch the porn with her and it doesn't sound like she objects to the specific kind of porn, DomnaNico, it sounds like she regards any consumption of porn on her bf's part EVEN IF HE DOES IT IN PRIVATE to be an act of infidelity. (Does anyone else remember Jimmy Carter's confession of "adultery" as having "lust in his heart" for women other than his wife?!)
She talks about "the pain caused by our partners' use of porn" and decides her choice is to be in a relationship and continue to feel as hurt and betrayed as if her bf were cheating if he watches porn, or not "meet [her] emotional and sexual needs if [she] decide[s] to opt out of relationships with men entirely."
I don't like porn. It makes me a bit nauseous. But as long as my partner doesn't want me to watch it with him, and as long as his porn-and-masturbation routine doesn't take away from what he gives me, I could not care less how much or what kind of porn he watches. Everyone's entitled to "lust in his heart."
NOPE has got some serious issues to work through.
OMG the PORN thing, AGAIN?!? WTF ladies, we don't complain when you read romance novels (PROVEN to be the same in terms of brain chemistry as actually having a new relationship....cheating) by the box (pun intended)! Most women are not so visually stimulated, men are period. Please just give us a break. or at LEAST don't bust out the oh so tired 'You don't love me!'
No I am not a woman hater, just frustrated with the same old thing, like 20 years worth. Pa-lease.
And just one more word, spellcheck.
It's the best that I can do...
As a college PROFESSOR, I have occasionally relaxed the rules of grammar when corresponding with certain students. (We all know that sometimes using "whom," avoiding a split infinitive, or shirking a dangling participle makes a sentence awkward, and thereby confusing to some).
Maybe your professors were idiots, or maybe they didn't respect your intelligence enough to correspond in the manner they would with their colleagues. Or maybe they were human. Just a thought.
Even so, "who/whom" and "which/that" errors are in an entirely different class than not being able to spell words at a 2nd grade vocabulary level.
You cannot alter form without also altering function. A circumcised penis works differently from and intact penis, and most circumcised men have to hammer away; more so the older they get.
You also cannot remove such a large amount of nerve endings (and build up a callus over those that are left) without losing sensitivity.
"Is there a way to bring his dick back?" Yes, it is called "foreskin restoration." It is a long, slow process but thousands of men have had incredible results and are now enjoying "slow, sappy," MUTUALLY SATISFYING sex with their wives and girlfriends. Good luck to you and your boyfriend!
(The good news is, these days about 2 out of 3 boys in the U.S.A. are actually allowed to keep all their genitals, so in 20 or 30 years far fewer women will have to hold onto the headboard, grit their teeth, and endure the jackhammer, and far fewer men will have to go around with tension devices on their dicks for a few years to try to recover what was taken from them without their consent.)
I was in the same situation and ended up having an affair with the guy last month, which I admit was a betrayal and incredibly hurtful. My life's essentially chaos now, so I am getting what I deserve in many ways. But there is a small part of me that isn't sorry it happened because I discovered that I need to have more sex with men. That said, if you really want to preserve your relationship, you need to stop spending time with this guy. Your feelings will likely just get more intense if you continue to see him.
Sometimes these fears are justified. Most of the time, they are about YOU and YOUR FEARS and are totally irrational.
And I'm not putting the blame on the woman in the relationship totally either. I mean, society tells us gals that men cheat because we don't give them enough sex or because we gained weight. It's fucked up. It's also untrue.
Ultimately, we as women need to get into a better headspace, become more secure in the relationship and in ourselves. And we need to translate that security into a demand that media outlets stop perpetuating these destructive social messages.
If you think these women are all self-empowered sex-positive entrepreneurs you are seriously deluding yourself.
If you don't and would rather not think about it you're a scumbag who has forfeited any right to ever buy free-range eggs again. Go fuck a responsibly farmed salmon.
If the very real-life degrading of women is part of what you enjoy about porn (even secretly), the word asshole is too good for you.
The issue here isn't whether the porn industry is ethically run, but the very concept of using visual stimulae for sexual gratification. Nobody's "overlooking" this issue because it isn't really relevant. We're arguing about whether a woman should feel betrayed by her partner's porn consumption -- unless you feel that "you're supporting an exploitative industry!" is a way to justify hurt feelings.
As you yourself point out, this isn't an *inherent* problem of porn. Lots and lots of industries suffer from some degree of exploitation -- coffee, bananas, clothing, pets (yay, puppy mills) cleaning services, whatever.
I'm not going to tag my enjoyment of everything -- be it coffee or a clean toilet at work or porn -- with a "oh by the way I acknowledge that some people are forced into/exploited by this."
It isn't "convenient" or a delusion to not mention these problems every single fucking time. It's having some common sense.
"If the very real-life degrading of women is part of what you enjoy about porn (even secretly), the word asshole is too good for you."
And seriously? I have a difficult time thinking there are enough assholes out there getting off on poor employment standards to get outraged.
"If you don't and would rather not think about it you're a scumbag who has forfeited any right to ever buy free-range eggs again. Go fuck a responsibly farmed salmon."
Please froth at the mouth elsewhere.
@42 I'm jealous. It's not that I have the opposite problem--it's not that my bf watches porn instead of effing me. He just likes to eff about 3 times a week and views softcore porn stills about once every 15 days. Sigh.
@80 I hate to say it, but that doesn't actually work. He'll look at the pics of her, enjoy them--then look at the pics of the other girls, too. Most likely. Personal experience.
As for WWDD, a friend and I were discussing this last night. Once we both accepted that having crushes on other people didn't mean we didn't love our partners, we didn't feel so much of a charge about them. Because your crush is male and you're in a lesbian relationship, your crush might have extra charge because it's got you questioning your sexuality, which is a part of our very identity. Feeling this gets you emotionally riled up, so it's hard to let go. Allow yourself to have a crush, take away the guilt and understand that straight, bi, transgendered, gay, lesbian people have all kinds of crushes for all kinds of reasons on all kinds of people and it possibly says absolutely nothing about your sexuality or your current relationship, and see if you still feel so overwhelmed by it. Also, when you're in an LTR, it doesn't feel so charged after a while, so crushes can feel a lot stronger in comparison. They're often like mirages, though. Beautiful and glittering from a distance, but there's nothing there when you get there.
The issue of women feeling threatened by their partners' use of porn is indeed something different, which a lot of people have addressed here already, so I didn't bother going into it. If you care to know, I have absolutely no problem with my partner getting off to the sight and thought of other people. I do too.
What I do have a problem with is the cavalier attitude that many pro-porn people seem to have about those "poor employment standards" you mention. Is there a "euphemism of the year" competition?
My point is - yes, life sucks for other people too, but at least there is some consumer awareness, there are fair trade products, free range chicken, responsibly farmed salmon.
I don't see (enough of) a similar movement in porn. Why is that?
Now, "fair trade" porn, there's a thought...
I agree. The "sex positive" movement is great in a lot of ways but, in it's attempt to counter sexual repression, it often seems to ignore that the facts of the sex industry, and the porn industry in particular, are actually pretty nasty. To hear some sex-positive activists talk, you'd think that every female porn star is a Smith graduate with a BA in women's studies who just wants to spend some time reveling in her empowered sexuality before she enters a Ph.D program. It ain't so.
However, at least the sex-positive movement has basically good goals, including the goal to make women's sexuality and women's consumption of sexually explicit material more acceptable. Whereas the primary concern of many of the pro-porn posters here seems to be to liberate poor, oppressed men from their ball-busting harridans of wives or girlfriends, with nary an acknowledgment of the fact that plenty of women also like to get off on depictions of others having sex. Oh wait, there has been "Ladies, you have romance novels!" Really, these are are Dan Savage readers here, I'd expect a little less patronizing stereotyping of women as less sexual beings who only want to read about being taken into the manly arms of Fabio and made love to.
Many, I'd say most (whether they feel comfortable admitting it or not) women do get aroused by sexually explicit images. It's human nature. However, many women have other considerations that prevent them from being into most porn, such as the fact that a lot of it is produced under disgusting conditions and that that shows all too well in the fact that the women rarely look like they're having a good time. And, yes, many men also share those considerations. Completely aside from the rights issues involved, it's just not that hot to watch bored, exhausted looking people have highly stylized, unrealistic, passionless sex.
When I can find some porn that is actually hot (read: the people look like they're enjoying themselves, which means it probably wasn't produced under sleazy conditions) than that is just awesome and my partner agrees.
But there are plenty of men that are just turned off by most porn as it exists today, and plenty of women for whom "it's a corrupt industry" is not just a cover for jealousy.
My objections to porn have nothing to do with the conditions under which it is made or the lack of real fun the women are having.
I get repulsed at extreme closeups of genital penetration. To me, it reduces all the sensations and passion of sex to pieces of meat colliding. Maybe if the camera was always positioned in a long shot so I could get a sense of the body parts belonging to actual people, I would like it more, but even then, since it seems so joyless and boring, I don't think I could ever find it arousing.
It's like eating: wonderful to do, but not so much necessarily to see others doing, and, depending on their style, potentially disgusting.
But that's *my* opinion and reaction. I don't pretend to speak for all, most, many, or even some women--just me.
Confidential to Schmooze: Aha! I knew there was a reason for my crush: we're both college professors--and apparently, both English professors. Now I gotta go write some syllabi.
Do the leg curls last...?
@76 I learn something from your situation also. Thanks!
A bit about my own situation:
I'm a married bisexual woman, and I have crushes on different women that I met in life every once in a while. It's like what they call "fluid sexuality" - there are times I feel very "straight", completely satisfied with my husband, not thinking of women at all; then followed by a period of craving for intimacy with women to the point that I feel very "gay", that I could have multiple crushes on women in a short period of time. In between are the fluid times, sometimes more "straight", sometimes more towards the "gay".
My husband does not know about this. He is a sensitive and kind guy, but sometimes he does express his homophobia mildly. Every time that happens, I try to confront, explain, and educate him about homosexuality. He came from a close-minded small town, so it's not surprising. Over time he has less and less homophobia expressions, and I'm glad about that, but deep down I have no idea how he feels if I tell him I'm bi! So I haven't told him that yet.
As for myself, I have only come to completely accept myself as a bisexual woman recently, although I had questioned my sexuality for years, since I was a teenager. Also the knowledge about "fluid sexuality" has helped me greatly with my confusion - you know, the "straight" and "gay" periods!
All the awareness above help me deal with my periodically crushes on women. I don't have crushes on men, as my husband is all I need in men, and I love him!
I used to be very shaking and overwhelmed with emotions during my crushes on women. As @81 said in his/her post, I was questioning my sexuality and my very identity during those periods. It could lead to depression for days or weeks, and husband felt my sadness but didn't understand why.
Now that I accept that it is the way I was created, that I will just have to welcome those crushes when they come, as a very part of me, enjoy the emotions that they bring to me when they are here, but not to let them take me over. And wait for them to subside.
This is my choice at the moment: I don't deny the "gay" part of me, but I try to keep it under control, and give priority to the "straight" part, because I love my husband, and value our marriage.
Again, it's for the present, and I have no idea what will happen to me in the future. I may come to a point where I, like @76, feel no regrets for realizing that my "gay" part wants to take over. Or not!
Probably because porn itself is something you don't buy or use as openly as eggs or coffee or chicken, so people don't -- as commonly -- share their stories, sources about it, so it's harder to get a picture of what exactly goes behind the scenes.
Because porn is a fairly private product, so it's difficult to be open about its facets. I mean, the "ethical labour and environmentally-friendly materials for sex toys!" cry is minimally there, but nowhere near the scale of, say, "fair trade coffee!"
Because porn IS stigmatized, so some people just think, "Oh whatever, you shouldn't be looking at porn anyway and it isn't a real job and only whores do it." Not so with earnest poor Third World farmers, adorable animals, and adorabler (yes) children labourers, etc.
I think you're right -- it should be regulated and protected. Part of the way there is to accept it socially too -- tying into "hey porn is normal and enjoyable." Maybe if more and more people enjoyed porn, they'd eventually care about where it came from too. If people already see it as a social evil, the fact it comes from a socially evil source probably isn't high on their minds. It's like an ethical drug dealer. (Ok, I know a lot of people care how they get their drugs, but give me some leeway here.)
If more women liked porn, maybe more of them would get involved in the industry as more than underpaid, exploited workers -- directors, producers, financiers. That could be a step towards a healthier, more ethical industry.
"What I do have a problem with is the cavalier attitude that many pro-porn people seem to have about those 'poor employment standards' you mention. Is there a 'euphemism of the year' competition?"
That was supposed to be flippant sarcasm. Also, I work for a labour organization with lots of bureaucratic jargon, so that was a very "in" in-joke. Not anyone's fault but mine!
I guess my overall point is that I understand now that you're saying that many pro-porn people don't care, but I was taking offence at an implication that just because you were pro-porn mean you didn't care (*even if the issues were explained to you*, which I found difficult to believe, much less a significant minority of people who get off on the idea of human trafficking and co-ercion). Your remark just seemed out of blue, so I read you as tying it a lot more closely to the discussion at hand than warranted.
@82 and @90
I love 90's point. I was thinking about this yesterday in regards to prostitution, which is not currently legal in this country. I was thinking about how a lot of the "progressive" men I know who advocate for making prostitution legal would NEVER want their own wives/girlfriends working as prostitutes. Some men don't mind when their partner is a porn star/prostitute, but a lot of men who claim it should be treated as "just a job" would change their minds if it entered their private sphere. To me, this speaks to a double standard. We say in one breath that sex work should be destigmatized (which could be said of both prostitution and porn), legalized, regulated, and treated like any other job. In the next breath, we essentially admit that it ISN'T like any other job. Sure, some people want to be firefighters and some don't, but the reasoning behind not wanting to do almost any other job compared to the reasons for not wanting to be in porn/work as prostitutes are wildly different for most people. Those reasons aren't just about legality and regulation. They're about the way this society views sex. It's something we don't want to talk about or be honest about. People are taught to be ashamed of it unless it's performed within certain contexts. But even people with progressive views on these issues would never engage in porn/prostitution because that's not what "upstanding" members of the community do. I'll admit it--I LOVE SEX. I LOVE IT. Really, a career counselor would be remiss not to recommend porn as a good career for me (because I love sex, not because I'm hot or anything). But would I be in porn? Nope. Honestly, partially because of what that could do for my future prospects in other career industries should I want to change jobs as well as to relationship prospects. So, honestly, what's to be done?
Woman seated on airplane can't stop sneezing. Passenger next to her asks if she's coming down with a cold. "No," she replies, "it's just that every time I sneeze I have this huge orgasm."
"Are you taking anything for it?"
"Yeah, black pepper."
@#40: Huh? When, pray tell, was that? Porn, in one form or another, from dirty vase etching to shunga to Linda Lovelace and Harry Reems to Viv Thomas (google it), has been "widely available," as you put it, for THOUSANDS of years. And when it wasn't "widely available," people created their own—artistic or literary. that's why it cracks me up when douchebags like Judith Reisman try to crusade to eradicate pornography. Good luck with that, bitch.
For the record, I'm a middle-age woman who LOVES porn. Not all of it, just the stuff that pushes my buttons. And that's the thing: Everyone has buttons that are going to be pushed by some kind of erotica out there. One just has to find the right stuff, or create it if you can't. I was writing erotica for myself at age 14. Perhaps NOPE would prefer a site like http://www.forthegirls.com/.
So there are men who don't use porn out there. Maybe NOPE could even find one. But it's probably more practical to look for a man who is willing to be discrete about it, and not use porn where she has to be aware of his use.
I thought of you when i did this:
It's still a little weird and controlling, but at least it's not a case where you're forcing a partner to engage in sexual activity only and entirely on your schedule...
Why try to take it slow with more lube? Why not just get your rocks off on what gets your rocks off? My gf comes real hard when I push my finger against (not into) her butthole while she masturbates (the muscle tissue to be precise) - so that it hurts. I say: if it ain't torn, don't add extra-lube.