Columns Feb 8, 2012 at 4:00 am

Secrets and Lies

Comments

1
Great article Dan! Peeps, PP is under attack because women's autonomy is being questioned by crazy men. Kindly vocally, proudly & loudly support a woman's right to her own body any and everywhere - paper, online, to friends and fam. Thanks :)
2
Don't agree on the first letter. The Internet isn't a bar. You don't expect as much anonymity in a bar as on the Internet. It's a bad analogy.
3
@2 people who expect anonymity from the Internet shouldn't sent out face pics. Duh.

Re SAW, if he wants to be unrecognizable on the internet, I guess beating the photographer while he takes the photos is a good way to achieve that!
4
@1, While Nancy Brinker might appear to be a transvestite, I have been told she is, in fact, a woman. PP is not being attacked by crazy MEN but by crazy men and women.
5
@3

Bingoooo
6
Well, SAW, whatever you call it don't call it straight, nonsexual, or faithful.
7
"Two guys beating off in a hotel room? Sounds pretty gay to me." --quote of the year.
8
Prop h8te is history in California. Let freedom ring.
9
I wanna know if Chad is doing anything that constitutes actively trying to pretend that he is straight. From the description, it sounds like the answer is no, he isn't trying to be anything except be Chad. In that case, shut up and mind your own business. Maybe he hasn't brought up the subject of anything sex- or orientation-related in your presence simply because you aren't a candidate participant.
10
We've been letting too many people into the club - time to stiffen the entrance requirements.
11
In re CCC: Dan, you could mention the background of the old gay etiquette. When you tapped him on the shoulder, you were more revealing that YOU were at the gay bar. So the tap on the shoulder was along the lines of "we're in this together", because you were handing him as much life-threatening blackmail material as you had had on him. Weapons of Mutually Fabulous Destruction, as it were, except that outing was not fabulous even when I did it in the 1980s.

So if you're going to follow the old etiquette all the way, "Marcelo" would out "Chad" in gay private, but when around him in public, keeps a straight face and doesn't out "Chad".

But in these enlightened times, and God's teeth and toenails! a dance major of all things!, later trying a gayvention at need does sound tempting.
12
@9 excellent point. It's one thing if Chad talks all the time about his girlfriend in Canada ("her name is Alberta, she lives in Vancouver")...it's another if he just doesn't like talking about his sex life with his friends. Though either way, there's not much harm in letting him know he inadvertently came on to his friend.
13
@Confidential to Komen: Done! Thanks, Dan. And Brinker's GOT TO GO- talk about "uptight xtian face"! Yikes- too scary.
14
I think NOTBI can pretty legitimately question his attraction to guys if stubble is that big of a turn off. I mean most men get it hours after shaving, it's not some rare condition. Seems like it's kinda part of the package.
15
I get the idea behind wanting rid of Brinker but come on. She founded the organization. It's named after her dead sister. I don't think kicking her out is the right thing.
16
Headline on NYT right now: "A big night for Santorum."
17
@3, @5, & @7: I second that!!

@16: I don't call a bowel movement in three states a "big night".
18
@Confidential to Komen: I'd settle for them at least doubling, if not tripling, their annual grants to PP. Every bit helps but $700K is nothing compared to their total revenues and what they pay themselves in salaries.
19
@9 I disagree. I think Dan's advice for was spot on. Chad's friends shouldn't have to pretend that they don't know what they already know (and have suspected for a long time). Since Chad already outed himself by sending a picture of his face, CCC and Marcelo could simply let the Chad know they know he's gay and they support him anyway. This might be the push he needs to finally be honest with himself and his friends.
20
Chad might not actually be out, but it's not like he's been living a lie and pretending to be straight. He hasn't been leading anyone on. He hasn't been using a girlfriend or wife. He sounds like a nice young man, only in his early 20s, taking his time about his sexuality and going at his own pace. For that reason, I don't think anyone else has any business invading his privacy and outing him in any big public way. A tap on the shoulder? A pleasant conversation? Sure, friends do that, and if that's what's meant by outing someone, nothing wrong with that. But draw the line at presuming to know more about someone than he knows himself. I'm disturbed by this note coming from a third person. CCC wrote, not Marcelo, which means that CCC and Marcelo have been talking about Chad behind his back and discussing what they think would be best for Chad. This may not be nasty gossip, but it is gossip, and that's generally not good for relationships.
21
I sent this as an email to Dan, but I thought I would share it with the comments section as well. This is one of the trailers I saw at a major theater in Bangkok before they showed Underworld. And if any movie fits with the theme of it gets better...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u96W4iKb3…
22
@12, I'm with you, maybe Chad doesn't want to talk about his sexual exploits. Never understood why guys did that, we all know it's 90% bullshit.
23
It's only gay if you kiss
24
I would like to take this time to apologize for MN letting Santorum anywhere near Washington. MN has a caucus system that is just plain exclusive and only draws true believers. I don’t know any Republicans that actually went and I know a lot of politically minded individuals. My Republican friends don’t feel enough passion for anyone to spend 4+ hours on a weeknight; except the anti-abortion crowd.

We may be the state that elected Bachman and are actually voting on banning gay marriage soon (so embarrassing), but most of us are well educated, common sense, hard workers who believe in the American dream. More women vote in MN than men so Santorum with his 1512 beliefs about birth control and gays will never win. Also, MN hasn’t voted Republican for president since Reagan’s first term. But thanks, Republican party for making sure that Obama will definitely get his 2nd term to finish what he started, now that he is finally standing his ground.
25
There's no where else to really announce this on The Stranger (for now), but I'd like to state for the record that I've never been embarrassed to acknowledge that I grew up in Colorado, until this morning. Colorado Springs, alas.

I had no idea the frothy mixture would be such a hit in my home state. Ugh, the state's GOP caucus is covered with santorum.
26
@2: And I think the expectation of anonymity on the Internet is delusional.
27
Great article, I laughed a lot. News flash folks: If you have to ask Dan if you cheated on your sig. other, you cheated on your sig. other!
28
For the first time since around 1998, Dan posted three responses to three letters and I actually agree with all of them! Mazel tov Dan; we must finally be aligned with the stars or sumthin!

I just have 2 questions: if NOTBI wasn't interested in kissing a dude, why did he?

And: I don't understand Dan's Al Gore reference; could someone please explain it? Thanks!
29
Dan is spot on about cheating being in the eye of the partner, regarding SAW, but I think the orientation of any sex is determined almost exclusively by what's going on inside the heads of the participants, not by any external factors. This does allow for a situation where it is possible SAW's friend had gay sex, while SAW did not.

I do think the more interesting question is, given where SAW's friend's head is at, what happens next, and what should SAW be doing to best manage any further ramifications of his trip.
30
@28: Al Gore was one of the earliest and most vehement congressional supporters of high-speed communications technology, including ARPANET, the defense precursor to the Internet. He didn't literally invent it, but he could justifiably be one of the midwives.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al_gore#Hou…

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al_gore#Sec…

Dan is jokingly referencing the idea that "Al Gore invented the Internet," but he could just as easily have said "Before the Internet was invented" without a name attached.
31
Ah, Colorado. It would be nice to say I expected better of the Republicans here, but it would be a lie. Sorry, world!
33
PP is not the only pro-choice organization out there fighting for reproductive freedom and other rights! Support your LOCAL OR STATEWIDE NARAL office if you want to ensure your $$ is going towards the political fight to elect progressive legislators and keep anti-choice, anti-gay, hateful law off the books.

prochoicemissouri.org.
34
I think all those posting here (wondering if "Chad" is out of the closet, but just doesn't like talking about his sexual exploits) are missing the point. He's telling his friends that HE ISN'T GAY! That's not the same thing as not talking about who he's having sex with or what he does it bed; it's lying about who he is! Very strange, especially if the people he's lying to are supposedly his friends. For the record, you can say "I'm gay," without adding "I got gang-banged by the soccer team last night."
35
Dan, I smiled at the C Street and Undergrad Library references -- yep, those were the days...
36
I'm with # 20. Good lord, maybe Chad just thought he didn't have to out himself to his already gay friends. Sounds like this 3rd party someone is trying to stir an empty drama pot. Get over it, Chad is.
37
Kind of surprised you didn't suggest to NOTBI that maybe he's...not bi. I expect you may be gunshy of backlash from the oh so jumpy bi audience who always accuse you of bi denial, but it's not inconsistent that a light crossplay and pegging fan can be hetero ;) Instead you cautioned that it might just have not been the right guy.

Maybe he's just a straight dude who likes frilly things and anal stimulation. It happens.
38
How likely is it that someone ganked Chad's photo to use on their Grindr? Did Marcelo verify that it was him? Either way. Marcelo needs to talk to Chad, though.
39
@37, if NOTBI were totally straight, I would think he would have said "I'm straight" to the hot gay guy. But he didn't. He kissed him. He also never says in his letter that he's straight. He sounds bi-curious, to me, despite his claim to be over it and "NOTBI."
40
Why doesn't Marcelo keep the conversation going and then send a face pic of his own?
41
@19: "Chad's friends shouldn't have to pretend that they don't know what they already know (and have suspected for a long time)."

You and I agree on this. I just think that his friends should treat it with the same matter-of-fact lack of concern that they would any of their straight friends. I don't see that an "ZOMG, you are so out, finally! It's about time you admitted it!" conversation is going to accomplish anything. It's not like he's trying to pretend he is straight.

"Since Chad already outed himself by sending a picture of his face, CCC and Marcelo could simply let the Chad know they know he's gay and they support him anyway."

I also agree with you on this, to a point. If Marcelo wants to let him know that was him on Grindr, go for it. Might be the start of something great. On the other hand, if he doesn't want to be a participant in Chad's sex life, he should mind his own business. He might still say that it was him on Grindr, even if he doesn't want to play. But I don't see anything in the letter that would warrant a gaytervention.

"This might be the push he needs to finally be honest with himself and his friends. "

What do you mean, "honest?" What exactly has he done to be anything other than "honest?" Be specific. Letter writer clucks about "miserable life with a miserable wife." Hello? CHAD ISN'T DATING GIRLS. He's not bloody likely to make one miserable that way, now is he?
42
CCC here. Dunno if it's normal for writers to add comments, but I'd like to clarify a few points. 1) Chad is actively lying. He tells people he's straight if he's asked, and talks about wanting to date/sleep with girls in a "have I mentioned I'm heterosexual today" sort of way. He might be bi, but he's definitely not straight. 2) At no point were we ever going to publicly out him. I was talking about whether we should even mention to him that we know.
43
Tell Planned Parenthood to get Paypal on their donation page, and they will get much more. People are sick of giving out their credit card everywhere, and Paypal works well. I'm not associated with them except as a customer, and I have skipped making donations and even buying things when Paypal is not offered.
44
@ 41, avast: Well said, what you wrote:

"I just think that his friends should treat it with the same matter-of-fact lack of concern that they would any of their straight friends."

And

"If Marcelo wants to let him know that was him on Grindr, go for it. Might be the start of something great. On the other hand, if he doesn't want to be a participant in Chad's sex life, he should mind his own business."

I agree fully. Coming out is totally a personal decision. All it really is is just allowing yourself to not have to suffer with internal unease anymore. Honesty is honesty, it's a big wide world.

I also agree about the matter-of-fact thing and how it shouldn't have to matter who is or who isn't this or that. No one ever really asks a straight person if they're straight, and if so, why should it matter (unless Marcelo wants to hook up with Chad. Talk to Chad *privately*, and *with respect* to his feelings and current place in life. A little listening and empathy goes a long way :-) .)
45
@ 41, avast: Well said, what you wrote:

"I just think that his friends should treat it with the same matter-of-fact lack of concern that they would any of their straight friends."

Exactly. Thank him for being honest, if it goes there, and congratulate him on his bravery and commitment to himself to want more as a quality of life.

"If Marcelo wants to let him know that was him on Grindr, go for it. Might be the start of something great. On the other hand, if he doesn't want to be a participant in Chad's sex life, he should mind his own business."

I agree fully. Coming out is totally a personal decision. All it really is is just allowing yourself to not have to suffer with internal unease anymore. Honesty is honesty, it's a big wide world.

I also agree about the matter-of-fact thing and how it shouldn't have to matter who is or who isn't this or that. No one ever really asks a straight person if they're straight, and if so, why should it matter (unless Marcelo wants to hook up with Chad. Talk to Chad *privately*, and *with respect* to his feelings and current place in life. A little listening and empathy goes a long way.) :)
46
(sorry for the double post)

Cheers, Everyone :) .
47
CCC @42 - Yes, letter writers sometimes contribute to the discussion, and the extra information is generally helpful, so, welcome!

One issue in your letter is that you write: "Should we say something to Chad?...Should we have a gayvention?"

Since Marcelo is friends with Chad, and Marcelo is the one who got Chad's face pic, it makes sense for Marcelo to tell Chad what happened. I don't see how this involves you.
48
@47 You're absolutely right. It doesn't. None of this involves me directly. The reason why I know about it at all is because Marcelo asked me to weigh in. I've been out longer than he has (he's bi and private, it's why he would never think of outing anyone) and have more experience with the tumultuous experience of coming out and all the emotions that go along with it.

Maybe some backstory on Marcelo would be helpful. Marcelo and I are very good friends, and lived together (platonic) for two years, though we don't anymore. He told me he was straight (he never lied, but he did actively omit information) the entire time I knew him, and I never doubted his word, though plenty of people thought I was crazy for believing him. I heard he occasionally hooked up with guys through the grapevine, and when I asked him about it, he confirmed it. There was no crazy confession or big emotional scene, it was me saying "I know" and him saying "Ok that's great". So I have some experience with the gentle confrontation that went really well, and that's all he or I is thinking about doing with Chad.

Whatever happens, I doubt I'll be a part of the conversation. And no one thinks Chad should start singing "A Chorus Line" from the rooftops. All of his friends, myself included, just want to let him know that we're here and we support him, whatever he chooses to do.

49
@ 47, Hi EricaP: I agree with what you said, especially this part:

"Since Marcelo is friends with Chad, and Marcelo is the one who got Chad's face pic, it makes sense for Marcelo to tell Chad what happened. I don't see how this involves you."

Indeed. Marcelo and Chad should just talk privately and be delicate about it, if need be. Just listen, be a friend and be supportive, no matter what. Even if Marcelo should wind up having some sort of fling with Chad.

Yeah. I'm with you about the sense of Marcelo approaching Chad 'cos Chad sent a face pic. It levels the playing field much more for the subject to be broached, carefully and with respect.

50
@34: "He's telling his friends that HE ISN'T GAY!"

Really? Where does the letter say that?

"For the record, you can say "I'm gay," without adding "I got gang-banged by the soccer team last night."

For the record, I don't recall ever having told my friends "I'm straight," let alone anything about last night's sex positions. It just doesn't come up in conversation.

In his case, he acts stereotypically gay, and everyone he comes in contact with assumes he is gay. In other words, people's perceptions are in alignment with reality. So, what exactly needs announcing?
51
Conservative Wall Street Journal columnist/blogger James Taranto has been liberally using Rick's last name in humorous ways, even though he has never mentioned (i don't think) he internet meaning of the name.

Everything's Coming Up Santorum

http://goo.gl/pXDtV
52
CCC @42,

How would you treat Chad if he were out?

Treat him that way, and don't stress him out by asking. You can talk about how much better it is to be open in your sexuality, and how you are always available to help him if he needs it. Lead by example.

Peace.
53
Conservative Wall Street Journal columnist/blogger James Taranto has been liberally using Rick's last name in humorous ways, even though he has never mentioned (i don't think) he internet meaning of the name.

Everything's Coming Up Santorum

http://goo.gl/pXDtV
54
@50 via @42: "Really? Where does the letter say that?"

Whoops. Says that in comment 42. I stand corrected. Thanks for the clarification.

Now I want to know what Chad's reasons for hiding are, if you know them. Reason being that even intending to never publicly out someone, once a group of people know something, word gets out if you are not exceedingly careful. Be very wary of saying or doing something that might come back to bite Chad, like maybe get his college funds cut off.

Bottom line, however, is I think Dan's last line of advice still applies. If anybody needs to mention anything, it's Marcelo. Marcelo can go a little further if he wants, and mention that as far as the friends are concerned, not only is it a complete non-issue, it's non-news. But I wouldn't subject him to a group "intervention" of any sort.
55
btw, I don't know if this has been posted elsewhere, but I like this headline on CBC:

Santorum tops in 3 Republican caucus votes

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/story/2012/…
56
Regarding kissing the guy and he didn't like it: when I was in my late teens/early twenties, things went like this: I made out with a girl around the same time as a boy, had crushes on other girls, but decided I was straight (I don't remember this too well, but have a copy of the letter I wrote her where I said this). Then a couple of years later, in college, I felt attractions to gals and slept with a guy who did nothing for me and decided I was gay (Also, I was at a college where it was cool to be gay--the LUG thing). Then, maybe a year later, I realized I kept thinking, dreaming, fantasizing about cock, and hooked up with a bi guy and started having sex with guys again. Slept with both girls and guys. Married a man, now for 20 years. Crushed on and made out with girls since then, even a brief relationship with a woman on the side. Now, about 30 years later, I have enough accumulated experience to declare myself bisexual. But in the beginning, I generalized from one experience, when that reaction did not predict the future. Now, the LW may simply be straight, but one experience may not be enough to be sure.
57
....please Dan do something the stupid and
politically UNFIT people south of our border
still think that MR. Santorum is presidential
material! It would be a total shame for the
whole world and a " don't make me laugh..."
chorus for the Russians and Chinese!!!

It's hard to believe he is in the race, even harder
to hear that he won some support!!
58
I donated. Too bad they aren't tracking the impact of your request.
59
It's official. I'm reading Dan Savage's column more than ever these days for one simple reason. The comments are the best fracking part!
60
Can anyone even IMAGINE what would happen to this country (and, come to think of it, the entire globe) if Santorum were president? As Penny on "Big Bang Theory" would say, Holy crap on a cracker...
61
I said originally that Chad wasn't living a lie by presenting himself as straight. CCC corrected me (all of us) by saying that no, Chad regularly says he's straight and says he'd like to date girls. So let me rethink this and .... nope, same conclusion.

If a gay man is enough of a hypocrite as to make gay-hating remarks while having sex with guys under (supposed) anonymity, then out him. Expose him for the cheat and fraud that he is.

If a gay man has targeted a particular woman for dating, a relationship, or marriage, then do the kind thing and tell her what you know so she can make an informed decision about the future of the relationship.

If a young man is saying one thing, fantasizing about another, getting on a (supposedly) anonymous online venue, and dyeing his hair mardi gras colors, then let him think about and explore his sexuality at his own pace, in his own time. Don't tell him what you've decided about his sexual orientation. If you're friends and decide to open a discussion about coming out in general or about how you personally came out, or about how you knew you were gay, or about some of the doubts you had, or about how you sometimes thought about a life married to a woman, or about anything else that's true, fine. Talk about that. But don't presume to know more about him than he knows himself. It's not nice.
62
@60 It couldn't be any worse than the turn the country took under Obama. I'm not a Santorum supporter by any stretch.
@24. Ditto for MO. Our primary meant nothing yesterday. GOP will caucus in a few weeks and assign delegates. I suspect the majority will be for Romney.
63
I tuned into Savage Love today just to see what was being said about Santorum leaking all over 3 states. Thanks for the laughs, unfortunately we need to get rid of this Bigot. So for all those outside of MO, I'd like to apologize for our states vote. Most of us did not vote because our primary means nothing. GOP will caucus in a few weeks and assign delegates. But keep the Santorum jokes coming, it gives me hope this guy will be flushed
64
@11: Tim, I love that you refer to "the old gay etiquette" of "the 1980's". Dude, I'm so old, (but young at heart), I think the 1980's are still in the future. You made me lol! Thanks!

Dan, Congratulations on your 1,OOO,OOOth. comment!
65
SAW -- "Is it cheating?"

Dan's reply is dead on, but it's a bit uninformative for someone so clueless. Whether you cheated on your wife has nothing whatsoever to do with what anyone thinks except for your wife.

What is it with monogamists? Far too often you guys assume that The Rules are universal, you don't bother to negotiate, you don't talk with your partners about what each of you wants, you can't put in the effort to learn what matters to your partners, and then you act all surprised and look for absolution when you go outside the relationship for something that you (against all of human experience and knowledge) expected never to do or want. Why on earth do you think Dan would know what matters to your wife?

Also, if you don't know for sure that it isn't cheating, then you chose to be a CPOS. Start begging for forgiveness (which, incidentally, is not only the only ethical course of action, but also your best negotiating tool).
66
Good Morning, Everyone :) .

@ 52, Married In MA: I love what you wrote:

"Treat him that way, and don't stress him out by asking. You can talk about how much better it is to be open in your sexuality, and how you are always available to help him if he needs it. Lead by example.

Peace."

Absolutely true. Just being at peace with yourself and the world around you, really.. Personally, it doesn't matter to me whatsoever what someone's sexuality is. I take people on a one-on-one basis in making character assessments.

People, especially the bigots and lowly douches of the world coughahemsantorum, forget how fucking brave, tough and intense it always somehow is to step up and take your life back in your own hands.

No matter what anyone's truth is, I always pay props to someone who is honest, succinct about it and then keeps it moving. The way it should be :) . It's the tension in the air of unease that is ammeliorated once you find self-resolution.

Hey: it's cool to take the road less traveled and have the strength-constructing mojo you get from giving yourself the best you deserve: peace, truth and happiness.

I'm totally with you Married In MA.

Thanks.
67
santorum is slipping in the google rankings. lets work on that, shall we?
68
I think Dan focused too much on the tongue and stubble issues. It's just as likely that NOTBI was turned off by the stubble and tongue because he wasn't attracted to the guy in the first place, as that he wasn't attracted to the guy because of the stubble and tongue. After all, we all overlook all sorts of things that would be awkward, unpleasant, or outright gross without the component of sexual attraction - invasion of our personal bubbles, getting other people's sweat rubbed all over our bodies, prolonged exposure to body odor, etc. *Any* amount of tongue in your mouth is too much if you're not attracted to the person it's attached to.

Let's keep in mind that NOTBI is only eighteen years old and the fact that he wasn't attracted to this one guy doesn't mean that much about his orientation one way or the other.
69
God, I hope so (@67). Santorum's just fucked-up. I *get it* that anyone who lost a young child would exhibit peculiar coping behaviors, but this whole no-homo thing is just beyond retarded.

If he wasn't such a Poindexter in high school.. Trying to make up for lost time by being a political bad-ass (emphasis on the words bad and ass: whole lol).

Let him have his little bits of press. He won't get as far as any of us tends to worry about. Sooner or later, he'll say or do something stupid that pulls him out of the running. Think George Allen, when he said that dumb thing about macacas.

I'd love to figure out how big someone's ego needs to be to begin starting to think you can save the world politically by being a turd-merchant (Santorum) going into it.

Sorry you lost a child tragically, Rick Santorum. Other than that, you're a douche. Good luck with your campaign (not)!
70
@ 68, Not the name of a registered user: I Wish I could just put duct tape on my semi-bearded face and just rip the frickin' roots of my facial hair clean off of me! I hate facial hair on me (it looks like cowlicked butthair growing in on me lol) and I too would prefer to kiss someone who is either shaven well or has little facial hair altogether. It just feels weird: like you're in shop class using sandpaper, instead of making out with your babe of choice :-) ! I say that now, but I suppose I'd prefer to leave my options open. Who knows? Maybe my man likes an occasional sprouting of facial hair on me. I could totally do without facial hair on me. Shaving in general is a pain in the ass, but a necessary one.
71
@70 - see, I love stubble. I love when it's scratchy, and I can rub my cheek against it and feel it prickling. I love the contrast when he just shaved before dinner, and he's so smooth, but I know that by the time we fuck, it'll be a little scratchy already...
72
The guy in the first letter must know perfectly well that he is the subject of gossip among his acquaintances for being Such A Huge Queen, and that people like to tell one another that his sexuality "has gone from funny to sad."

And the guy is already out getting his freak on on Grindr - he is apparently not all that out of touch with his own basic drives.

The fact that he doesn't choose to officially out himself to the campus bitch squad may have less to do with shame or repression, and more to do with a perfectly natural wish to guard his privacy from people who have been treating him as a figure of pity and mockery for four years.
73
The guy in the first letter must know perfectly well that he is the subject of gossip among his acquaintances for being Such A Huge Queen, and that people like to tell one another that his sexuality "has gone from funny to sad."

And the guy is already out getting his freak on on Grindr - he is apparently not all that out of touch with his own basic drives.

The fact that he doesn't choose to officially out himself to the campus bitch squad may have less to do with shame or repression, and more to do with a perfectly natural wish to guard his privacy from people who have been treating him as a figure of pity and mockery for four years.
74
OK, we need to chill with the Komen-bashing already.

They made a mistake, and they corrected it, quite publicly, and the person responsible for said mistake is gone.

I was very vocal in my opposition to what Komen did, but now that they reversed course, what purpose does continuing to bash them serve?

It makes leftward-leaning folks seem as political and vindictive as the right-to-lifers were in the first place.
75
Oops - sorry for the double-post, I thought the original got canceled when it made me register.

In other news, I'd lay dollars to donuts that post-orgasmic weeping and self-recrimination is all part of the usual hotel fun for Mr. "Is that a webcam? Spank me!" guy in letter #3.
76
I think for the last LW, the wisdom of 4chan prevails: on a scale of gayness, 0/10, the balls aren't touching.
77
about NOTBI. I agree with you about the too much tongue & the rough stubbles. Had a menage-a-trois with another guy and girl thinking we were just going to have some fun with the girl. Surprise!!!!! He seemed to have more of an interest in me. I wouldn't say It wasn't fun at the time, but I certainly prefer smoother skin and to start off gentler and less tongue. Now this is from a straight guy, but I do wonder from time to time, what if........
78
@ 71, EricaP: Yeah. You're right. Especially when, as you say, you've shaven that morning, but by the time nighttime rolls around, you've got that awesome patch of 2:00 shadow growing in, and who has time to wanna shave when you're about to make some love..

I would never grow a Grizzly Adams sort of beard, let alone ever try wearing one from a Halloween costume shop. I'd rather put a woodchuck on my upper lip and walk around like that. I'd rather look like an asshole than someone whose soup never seems to quite make it in his mouth when he goes out to eat lol.
79
@77 if you had fun kissing a guy (even if next time you want it to be gentler (guys can be gentle!))... why call yourself straight? Is that because you didn't go down on him?
80
@ 73, DistingueTraces (How 'Bout This Tongue;-)~Traces...): If I may quote you generously, thanks:

"The fact that he doesn't choose to officially out himself to the campus bitch squad may have less to do with shame or repression, and more to do with a perfectly natural wish to guard his privacy from people who have been treating him as a figure of pity and mockery for four years."

Well said! I've never been a herd-mentality person -- especially when it came to how I publically identify as what preference, or whatever anyone chooses to call one's inherent, true nature.

I never was a college drone, I never was a stooge waving a flag for a cause I chose to know nothing or little about and I sure as fuck never have cared for lame, uncool, depressing, universally-free-of-mojo kinds of music.

I like to rock. I may be gay, but I like to think of myself as being more rock and roll than anything else.

Music unifies, man. Growing up in a musical family (and with my best friend's family also a family of musicians) taught me that it's still possible to grow up in the early '80's as a gay boy and *still turn out cool, and your own person*.

I identify with music sometimes more than I do any one person's lead-me-to-the-promised-land-eternal sorts of bullshit.

Music helped raise me. It makes you inspired to think and feel for yourself: herd-mentality be damned.

I'm never down with public outings. Fuck that. How would any of us feel being thrown into the deep end like that? Especially so if you've been a quieter type and you've been just doing the best you can?

I hate mobs, I hate protests and I can't stand sign-waving bullshit. I get it, but I just can't stand it. The only good thing about any of that sort of thing invariably is the piles of horseshit strewn in the streets after the drunkards and rowdies finished promising the second coming of the first revolution, or something ;-) .
81
@77
WTF was that about? "I'm straight man but the last guy I had sex with...maybe the next time I have sex with another man..."
82
@79 EricaP
Ha! You beat me to it. Maybe if you don't catch you're not really gay?
83
@ 77: I like that!
84
@NOTBI: light crossdressing + pegging = HAWT!!
Your letter made me horny. And reminded me I need to get some new stockings...
85
Hey, Dan and everybody:

I guess I don't have much to comment on the letters in Dan's column for this week. But I do have one question, however off topic: am I truly a nut for loving my car (NO, I'm NOT fucking my car! Geez)?
Okay, you all know I'm a nut. It's just that he's got a truly awesome personality, automotively speaking!!! Hey--a lot of guys love their pickups, SUVs, rods, etc., right? Why can't us gals?
86
Hi Dan, I love listening to your show. I was recently struck by an idea that i thought worth sharing.

given that Gay marriage is not yet legal Wa. IF the referundum is put to a vote this season, which looks to be the case.

I see an interesting connection, between Gay marriage legalization AND the question of Abortion on Demand as provided by different services here in the US.

Here goes. There is no doubt in my mind (a married man), that children strengthen the commitment of two people to their beloved union.

and while physically it is impossible for two men or two women to make a baby. they can and should be able to adopt. this adoption fits into the natural progression assumed, that from the marriage will come offspring.

So,if proponents of Gay marriage wish to solidify the legitmacy of Gay marriages, by adoption of unwanted children.....then aborting unwanted potential children would undermine the opportunity to have children to care for and to grow into society in decent ways.

I think, and find it reasonable to discuss, the value of Gay Marriage not only to the indviduals involved, but to society, by way of child rearing, care, and growth of unwanted babies....it would naturally call forth a common sense desire to reject abortion, unless it falls into the time honored catagories of , Rape, incest or health of the mother.

In other words, proponents of gay marriage , who wish to adopt,who wish to strengthen their marriage through parenthood and shared growth.... would promote the logic that there is a place for the unwanted children and babies in their homes and hearts, It is one more alternative to Abortion.

If gay marriage proponents , link up to Abortion critics, with this common purpose, both have valuable situations that help each other. Strange bedfellows for sure, but when it comes to the value of life, the sanctity of it, and respect and recognition of it, we can all work together, we can all play a part.the world is an interesting place.

No need to respond Sir, it's just an idea that seems to be worth discussing.

Best to You and Yours.
87
@73 said basically exactly what I came in here to say. Before I had a boyfriend on campus, I was, like Chad, a guy who any of the other already out campus gays were probably pretty sure I was gay but would have thought of me as "not out." But what was really up was that I didn't care to be out to them. It's quite possible that he doesn't consider them as much a "friend" as they do him.

(I was hooking up with guys from the Internet too... but that was *cough* 15+ years ago so it was a whole lot harder than Grindr. But as Marcello and Chad have shown, the more things change...)
88
I haaaate stubble. And grown-in facial hair. And chest hair.

I.... I grew up in the 90's.
90
@Hunter

Not sure what you're trying to say with that.
But I'm fairly certain you're wrong.
92
Yes, it was meant to be humourous.
Most people in my demographic are actually quite fond of beards. They're what you call "in".
93
Dan. You went to U of I and know damn well that the cruisy bathroom was in the GRADUATE library, right at the end of the tunnel.
94
I am squicked out by hotel rooms, and the third letter is a big reason why. I even hate to touch the remote control.
95
Dan, you know that "Al Gore invented the internet" reference is quite unfair. What Al Gore actually said was quite justifiable.
96
When Marcello got the face pic of Chad, he should have replied with "Oh, hey, Chad! Didn't realize I was flirting with a friend. 'Sister sex is sick' and all that. See you at SL's party/dance class/church" and then logged off. That way Chad would know that at least one person in his social circle knew his secret, but he wouldn't know which one. Maybe that would have been the nudge for him to quit his pathetic charade around his friends.

Or have CCC or another friend use the Grindr to find Chad in public, and then do a "shoulder tap" in person.
97
Anybody....? Hello?......did I piss you all off?...what?
98
Should I have mentioned stubble?
99
@auntie - I think you'd know if anyone were mad at you; personally I just don't have much to say about cars, though I'm glad you're happy.
100
@auntie(@85), I'm glad you enjoy your car's personality... I react this way to computers (Sony VAIO's have an allure that I think even Apple PowerBooks will never reach), but not to cars. Like so many nerdy types, I only learned to drive when I was 26-27, and I don't enjoy it... So there isn't much I can tell you about loving cars other than: by all means enjoy it!

(You don't have to want to fuck your car, but you might enjoy fucking in your car. Never tried it myself, but from those who enjoy cars I gather there's an allure to it that the car lover may pick on. :-)
101
mydriasis(@90), I actually wanted to grow a beard at one time (I also thought it looked like the kind of thing an intellectual would want to sport), but I couldn't -- the hair would grow thick in some places but thin in others, and I ended up looking like a toilet brush. And it took forever: as with your favorite type, my facial ahair grows slowly (I can go 3-4 days without shaving before people notice) and I have almost no body hair at all (a few scattered hairs here and there, but that's it).

Are there really many women who really like hairy masculine bodies? Curiously, most women I slept with found near-hairlessness nice, often even sexy. My wife loves it. (Of course, they're probably not a random sample; I may have been selected by women who, consciously or unconsciously, liked men with little body hair.)
102
RICK SANTORUM = GOP= NEWT(LIZARDHO)G.,..HOW BOUT MITT, THEN, WOW WAS THAT A REPUBLIPOTTY FLUSHING?
103
@101

Bingo. :)

I don't think I've ever heard a woman say she liked back hair or any of the like. But some of my friends are kind of hipsters and hipster guys are really into the lumberjack/fisherman trip right now. Ironically of course.

Or maybe that's just in Canada? Although I doubt it. Ask Williamsburg and get back to me. :p

    Please wait...

    and remember to be decent to everyone
    all of the time.

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