"...I think it is reasonable to (a) note that it's a change to the standard usage, and (b) discuss whether the phrase is worth reappropriating from its negative connotations. (I think it's not worth it; you seem to disagree.)"

After I established what I intended with MU/WU, I never said anything different than what you stated above. And then I said let's agree to disagree and I was still chastised and drawn into further arguments. I welcome differing perspectives as long as both sides are actually acknowledged.

Late to the thread, but for SCWLW and anyone else who is a devotee:

The most important thing you can do is *disclose*. Disclose early, forthrightly, and the same way you would disclose any other kink (As Dan says, it's not cancer, it's kink.) Yes, disclosure *will* cause some gimps to run for the hills. (I am one of them.) Here is the thing, though - you don't want to date me any more than I want to date you, because I am not onboard with your kink. You want a gimp who is down with that, right? Right. So don't get all hung up on the guys who go "oh, whoa, hell no, not my thing, sorry, bye."

Here's why disclosing a devotee fetish is different from (and more vital than) disclosing, say, a rope fetish. I love rope, but if I'm with someone who doesn't, I can go fulfill that elsewhere; I wouldn't wait and bide my time and then secretly tie my lover to the ceiling after they've already explicitly told me they weren't into rope, cause that would be creepy and abusive. So taking the rope elsewhere and doing it with other people is both an option and the right thing to do.

If you, as a devotee, date *me*, you can't "take that elsewhere"... you are, by definition, attracted to objectifying me. And that's okay, *as long as* the gimp in question is down with that. If they're not, you are, by definition, *non-consensually* involving them in your kink.

Devotees who *do not* disclose, and who stalk disabled gatherings to the point where my beloved camps and conferences had to tighten security and require medical proof of gimpdom to attend, etc, are why I won't ever date a devotee. I know not all of you are dishonest creepers who do shit like hide my car keys on top of the fridge so that I have to ask you for them and thereby get you hot and wet when I'm just trying to go get a gallon of milk... but the shit like that is the shit most of us see. People like that, who seek us out to *furtively* objectify, are what has made it hard for you to find those athletic, awesome gimps that you don't think exist. Guys like us go the fuck to *ground* because the majority of people *we* know who identify as "devotees" are creepy as fuck.

That isn't your fault, but if you want a healthy, happy relationship:

1) Don't stalk, don't infiltrate, don't crash gatherings that are specifically by and for disabled people. Those are our safe spaces, and because many/most of us have bad experiences with devotees, the quickest way to make us feel threatened is to be sneaky. To be clear, it's fine if you want to go to a *public event* where there are gimps, e.g. a wheelchair basketball game. But a *private event*, or any event where you're misrepresenting your intentions (e.g. "Hi, I'd like to be a camp counselor for disabled kids, cause I love kids!") is not okay.

2)Disclose early. Provided you have a record of non-creepy behavior, it's totally okay to bring up said record, e.g. "I think guys/girls with CP are totally hot, but I know that squicks some people so I do my best to respect boundaries." (If you were talking to me and you said something like that, I would probably still politely decline a date, but not before saying "Your kinks are not for me but I respect your integrity! I'm not up for dating you but I'm happy to meet you for coffee if you find yourself in a situation where you want to run it by a gimp to figure out how to navigate it."

Which brings me to:

3) Educate yourself. I don't mean "look us up on Web MD and jerk off"... you can do that too, it's no skin off my ass, but if you want guys with CP to give you a chance, you need to know about guys with CP as *people*... including the fact that we're just like other guys. It's already been stated here that we can do everything you can do. Not all of us *choose* to be that active or outdoorsy, but not all ablebodied people choose to be that active or outdoorsy either. And I guarantee you, the quickest way to drive away an otherwise fantastic, accepting of your kink, outdoorsy guy with CP will be to say "I like travel, sports, my bike, camping, overseas disaster aid, and a whole load of other things that are made either difficult or impossible when you can't walk." They will say "Er... what? Seriously? I do all those things, is that not why you're attracted to me?"

Read up on little things like the Paralympics (not to be confused with the Special Olympics, which is very different), go to a roadrace and watch the wheelchair division (usually leaves the starting line 20-30 minutes before the bipeds, because we're quicker than the bipeds and we don't want to accidentally clip ankles) rent Murderball, read John Hockenberry's book... *educate* yourself. You will not find many guys who even want a quickie with you if you expect them to have to put up with well-meaning but ignorant statements like "it's difficult to impossible for people like you to be as active as an ablebodied person."

The ones who *will* put up with those foot-in-mouth moments will largely be self-pitying gimps who are depressing as hell to be around, and you will feel dirty when you leave, because self-pitying gimps manage to make *even other gimps* feel like they are horrible uncompassionate people who are somehow "using" the self-pityers.

It's totally okay to seek out guys with CP for just sex... we're people, just like you, and some of us are cool with hookups. But even for the guys who like hookups, it's usually only okay if you're doing it *for the right reasons*, i.e. you want a hookup - not because you're laboring under the delusion that we're not relationship material *solely* because of your own misconceptions about what it is to be disabled.

I know this is stupidly long, but I really do want to help the non-creepy devotees out there.

Signed, A wheelchair athlete since age 4 with CP... whose ablebodied friends *refuse* to play against me, because I will wipe the floor with them.

Personally, I use Native American rather than Indian to, well, avoid *confusion*. Because I know people who are Indian, as in from India...

What the fuck does this have to do with acceptance/rejection?

@52 Go fuck yourself

@15 Go Fuck YOURself,

nobody gives a fuck what any "BS" study has been claimed to show, when the facts are that the majority of men will do just about anything they believe they will not be held accountable for.

Men are about as trustworthy as you can bury the fuckers once you find out they are one of the majority who just don't get it, and likely never will understand the differences between right and wrong in this world. And the ones that truly do understand, understand why it's not OK to go ahead and bury them as that would be taking action that proves there are times that they do not understand.

So if you are going to make shit up, don't do it on the topic of rape until after you've witnessed the before and after effects of one or the worst crimes that can be committed.

The reason rape is one of the worst crimes is because it is so easy to "trigger" the fear and intimidate the victims long after the crime was committed.

There is nothing more abusive than taking power and control over the unwilling who in no way shape or form offered submission.