Columns Sep 4, 2013 at 4:00 am



BARK: go on! take the offer!
What does SOPATGS mean?
@2, "Some-other-point-along-the-gender-spectrum" from earlier in his response.
Some other point along the gender spectrum
These were fun!
"Let's pretend your girlfriend is a lesbian. (And why not? Your girlfriend does.)"

HA. Cheerfully and scathingly always.
BTW, DID, your brother is a horrible manipulative fuck. You took the high road. Stay there.
And none of them were depressing, double yay! Well, except sorta FTE's.
Disrespectful sibs really do suck.
Love the advice for DID.
@10: Yeah--I do, too! DID, take lots of pictures!!
Bad mama jama is a cleaned-up version of "bad motherfucker". It is also an old-school funk/disco track by Carl Carlton. It is also the handle for a Puerto Rican drag queen I know. This concludes this week's episode of Ask A Gay Black Dude...

Play me out, Carl.…
This issue is entirely aside from DID's brother being a total doosh: I can't quite tell in what way DID used to dress in women's clothes. Like, he was 5 and got into Mom's closet, or he was 15 and the closest thing he could get to a girl was wearing satin panties, or for some period of his life, he was actually into cross-dressing as a lifestyle or sexy-time thrill? Because if the latter, is that something you really stop wanting to do? And let's hope this was not the first the "new wife" was hearing of it, because I'm pretty sure this is the sort of thing Dan counsels people to reveal before making long-term commitments. Nothing wrong with kinks between consenting adults, but you gotta disclose before the I-dos.
I wonder if TOES is really the guy in question, rather than a self-aware, overly critical girlfriend. In any case, TOES asked for support groups, so here are some suggestions:

FetLife group for foot fetishists and their significant others:………

That last one is critical of Dan's earlier foot fetish advice, but it offers tips on sensual facial foot massages, and on stretching beforehand to avoid leg cramps.
This week's was fun =D
Though I can't help but eye-roll at CULL. It pains me how obviously he wanted it to be a red flag...
@auntie grizelda:

I got your message at @336 on the last thread. You are an angel and I too think you rock.
That was a dick move, DID's brother. A less magnanimous sibling might have shared every nasty little secret he could think of about you to a certain sex columnist and then brought a cut-out of the print version to the next family gathering to be read aloud over cognac. Lucky you.

CULL strikes me as a bit sad: the species of FWB who obviously wanted to move to the next level. And got gazumped by the new BF.
@18--I read it the opposite way, that CULL didn't want to be her boyfriend (can't any male in an FWB relationship become a boyfriend? The concept exists for male benefit). Rather, that he is peevish his gravy train no longer stops at his station and is mad she now has a better deal. I mean, why should she choose a guy who loves her when there is an FWB right there?????
Best column in weeks. Not too much of a downer, variety, and just enough kinky.

Mon acajou, @12, and now we know!

Also, if I had the stage presence for drag, my nom de drag would be Sugar Beats.
milkshake, @19: "can't any male in an FWB relationship become a boyfriend? The concept exists for male benefit."

@16: Coming right back atcha, lolorhone!!
XO :)

And knowing is half the battle, mon chapeau rose! BTW, my favorite nom de drag is a theoretical one- playwright Tony Kushner wrote a play (Homebody/Kabul) focusing on Afghanistan just before 9/11 (it opened a few months afterward) and virtually every critic who reviewed called it "eerily prescient". Kushner's boyfriend then suggested he take it as his drag handle- Eara Lee Prescient.


Milkshake seems to assume that NSA sex is strictly favored by men. Which means he has definitely NOT met some of my friends.
Hey, lolorhone, can I meet some of your NSA-lovin' friends?? Just kidding.
Nice to see you back Ophian. Whaddya mean you don't have stage presence?
Anyone else experience cognitive dissonance while reading about an overly critical TOES, who then gushes about her boyfriend's beautiful sexuality?
Ah, I laughed like an epileptic at the image of that guy turning up to his brother's anniversary in drag.
I couldn't help but crack up a bit that TOES felt she had to explain what "erectile dysfunction" means.
Be careful with the fanboys. He might take you literally.
A very interesting column today. I particularly liked your response to TOES, and your response to BARK made me laugh out loud. Thanks!
Dan, I thought you weren't so much of a dog person, anyway.
I agree that cull is reacting like someone whose property has been taken, but it does seem odd that it's the woman's boyfriend who is laying down the law for her. Shouldn't she be making those kinds of decisions of her own free will? He is perfectly free to decline to date her if she chooses not to be monogamous. Or maybe she is just using the new boyfriend as an excuse to let down cull.
lolo, @23, love it!

Still Thinking, @24, Hiya.
I know that real puppies were not actually the focus of this question, but if you ever do get a real puppy, don't think you automatically need to get him/her "fixed" to be a responsible pet owner. Letting them get to sexual maturity, at least, is kinder than neutering them as puppies. For example, the leg bones quit growing at sexual maturity. If the dog has been neutered, the bones don't know when to stop. This is one reason a lot of dogs have hip problems, etc. later in life. And a well-cared-for animal is not a problem, either male or female. Books by Elizabeth Marshall Thomas, an anthropologist who studies animals, explain this. They are fine. You don't have to cut them. They are stronger and happier intact. Aren't you?
At a family reunion a while back, my Uncle Jack announced to my step-kids, Jack & Sally that he used to wear dresses when working in the fields, and everyone called him Sally.
@32, Carolyn - apparently you haven't had a female dog in heat running around your house. Nor have you visited an animal shelter where unwanted dogs are put down on a very regular basis.
I do have a beautiful bitch named Nadine, who is her natural self. We do fine when she is in heat. We have wood floors, so if she drips a little bit it is not a big problem. She does not try to run away, just gets quiet and thoughtful for a few days.

The English are more reasonable about all this, and feel that the few days a year that they have to take extra care for their pet, is worth it. There is a product from an English company, BacToNature called Bitch Spray, which has no odor at all. You spray that on her parts and it takes away the smell that attracts male dogs.

I agree the "shelters" full of unwanted dogs is a very sad thing. But to think all dogs need their sexuality to be taken away is just wrong. After all, females only come in heat 2 or 3 times a year for a few days. It's not like people, who are sexual all the time.
Excellent column! And lolorhone @12 wins. I enjoyed the soundtrack to the rest of the comments. You're awesome.
@35: I'm not a dog owner, but I have a 14-year-old daughter who is a typical teenager. Could I use the Bitch Spray on her? What happens if I aim it at her mouth instead of her "parts?"
Carolyn I.,

No matter what you do, pet dogs *either* have their sexuality taken away from them *or* they fill up the shelters. There’s no way around it. It’s cruel to leave an animal with all its sexual desires intact and then forbid them to act on them. Maybe it’s less of an issue for bitches but it’s every single day for male dogs.

Your female dog has about a 1/5 to 1/4 chance of getting pyometra in her lifetime, a very painful and dangerous condition. Congratulations.

You might feel that you and your dog are happiest if she is unspayed and watched carefully for signs of infection two or three times a year, and that’s fine. But caring for animals in conditions that are created by humans is always going to be a compromise. Not everyone is capable of the same compromises. I live in a dense urban neighbourhood, so my dogs are spayed/neutered, they are vaccinated against everything my vet recommends, and they are less than 35 lbs. If I lived way out in the country I might consider drowning puppies, vaccinating against rabies only and keeping large german shepherds, but I don’t.

There is no need for you to be smug about being the best dog owner ever and to plead with all us unenlightened folks to be like you.
7) Ms Carolyn - Perhaps Mr Savage shares Ms Maddow's status as a long time fan of (really rather creepy) Mr Barker.

2) Interesting that Mr Savage doesn't distinguish between cutting off sex and cutting off conversation. I'm not sure whether to be more surprised that Mr Savage ignores that there was no cutter-cuttee conversation or that he expects cheerful acquiescence in the cutting. Result merchant, perhaps? thinking saying okay is the safest road to becoming friends again? Seriously, though, is she worth rebefriending if she gets The Ultimatum and just goes along with it happily, simply informing FWB of the cutoff? Or, in FWB culture, which is not my strong suit, is this the equivalent of friends accepting that plans will be broken last minute if A Date is in the offing?

Mr Rhone - If one goes by the maxim that the only way to be sure of someone's attitude towards NSA sex is to be having it with hem, it makes your remark a good deal more interesting.

4) Anyone at all familiar with the internet who can't find information to support a partner with that particular barely-a-kink isn't... giving the reading audience that inaccurate a picture of the delights of MM in an MF/FF world.

6) Talk about one bad sentence absolutely being a brilliant case of Open Mouth, Insert Foot (which clearly belongs in another letter). If only LW had been able to hold that one little wonder in, she'd have had nearly universal sympathy. But she makes me think they're almost equally unpleasant (it's the insistence of harping on the label over the behaviour that sends up the pink flag), and it's tempting to want the two of them to remain chained together in an unbreakable bond for all eternity. It would serve her right if her next girlfriend insists on an MFF threesome while identifying as a solid L.

1) I can't help but wonder, if both requests are granted, what the lesser asker will get by way of compensation.

3) Madame has stumped this portion of the panel.

5) After seeing so many letters misaddressed to Mr Savage or the Prudecutor, it is a great relief finally to see a letter addressed to the appropriate adviser. I'm not sufficiently pleased with the question to spend time considering an answer, but I give the LW credit for asking someone clearly so well suited to devising appropriate revenge on a sibling.
@38: Yeah, because it's impossible to give dogs vasectomies.
Females who have gone into heat even once are at a much higher risk for mammary cancer, a common cancer in unspayed dogs. Uncut males are more aggressive and much more likely to attack other dogs, humans, and even their owners. It sounds nice to say you're keeping your dog "natural", but dogs are already unnatural - some breeds can't even be mated or born "naturally", and most breeds wouldn't exist in the wild, as they're the result of tens of thousands of years of human intervention. The responsible thing to do is to neuter your dog - we do far worse things to animals on a regular basis.

"Unneutered males are more aggressive" is a real reason for neutering them. But let's not pretend we're neutering them for THEIR benefit. We're neutering them for our convenience.

@19 Yeah, why should she choose a guy who will fast treat her like his personal property, and ask her to daily do his cooking and his laundry for free in exchange for third grade sex and a stupid ceremony, over a guy who will never take her for granted and who will always provide A-grade sex, because they have a NSA relationship ? Why ?
@14 edit: "I wonder if TOES is really the fetishist in question, rather than a self-aware, overly critical partner."

@39 sorry to keep screwing up.
@30 I agree with the idea that the FWB may just be blaming the new boyfriend (if he even exists!) for her own desire to stop talking to CULL. In any case, as Dan said, CULL does not get to call this a red flag unless he's intimate enough to know whether she has similarly cut off contact with her other friends.
Carolyn - A dog who is not permitted to have sex, is not enjoying her sexuality. Dogs are not people, and heat is an uncomfortable condition. I agree that, where feasible, it is healthy for a dog's - especially a female's - development to become fully mature before altering. Beyond that failure to spay/neuter is more about the owner than the pet.
Trinabeana @36: Thank you kindly.

Mr. Ven @39: Is that a maxim? Regardless, my remark is not THAT interesting; I just have the kind of "good listener" personality that turns friends/acquaintances into oversharing confession junkies. It's a blessing and a curse.


What's with the random numerical order? And my section wasn't numbered at all! This is madness, I say, MADNESS!!
@35, 37: I think Bitch Spray is nothing but interspecies slut-shaming.

@43: Sound reasoning, sissoucat : )
@Puppy Play: If no one else here will take a stand for decency and virtue, then dammit I will.

Pretending to be a dog for the sake of sexual gratification is sick and wrong for reasons that should be obvious to all but the most crude and degenerated minds.

Burn the dog costume, and get yourself a sexy kitty cat outfit like a normal, decent person.
Aurora Erratic, no, it is much healthier for a female dog to be spayed before her first heat. She gets maximum protection against breast cancer that way — almost zero likelihood. If she’s spayed between her first and second heats she has about a 1/15 chance of developing breast cancer; if she’s spayed after her second heat there’s no protection and she’s got the full 1/4 chance of breast cancer.

Also, if she’s spayed before her first heat she will not put any puppies into a shelter. The longer spaying is delayed the higher the risk of a slip-up.
@19, No way! Not any male in a FWB relationship can be a boyfriend. I had one who wanted to be and I said no. Liking sex from a guy doesn't mean he's boyfriend material. Besides, there are times when a woman just doesn't want a relationship right just then (after a bad breakup, for example).
@48 Just one of your friends chiming in :-)

@49 Mrraaawww !

@52: Purrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
@49 That gave me a good belly laugh!
FTE is playing herself for a fool. The chick she claims she loves isn't even a generous-enough good lay, AND she's busy porking dudes (probably for drug money or daddy attention).

Dan's right: DTFHA (Dump The Fucking Ho' Already, who's Down To Fuck, Ha!)

As for the submissive puppy with a crush on Dan & Terry: as long as submissive never means passive in participation... ;-)~+~+
@56: Fast = soon

As someone long acquainted with harsh recollections recycled endlessly to the detriment of my mental health by my "nearest and dearest", I greatly empathize. You write of a new wife, perhaps things are going well for you (and not well for bro/too well for you for bro's taste)? You also write of attaining 50, in which case I should ask: aren't there any number of embarrassments and failures you've experienced that you (should) have shared with your spouse, in the laughing "did I tell you..." mode?

In the endless gladiatorial bouts sometimes known as "family time", the thing to remember is that verbal barbs only hurt as much as you let them. Simply responding (in the example of one of Bill Cosby's characters) "So?" is an amazingly effective defense. You're 50, if you have kids you've worn (most) every human biological fluid possible, who gives a shit if you were wearing a shirt that buttoned the wrong way when it happened? If you're capable, just make a weird face, along with everyone else, and say something to the effect of "What's with that???". Maybe the worst that could happen is you'll need to cuddle your wife more in front of your nephew (to prove your studlyness), at best maybe your wife says "show me".

Mr Rhone - Well, I get told about their love lives by assorted people in their 70's and 80's.

There is a maxim about only the participants in a marriage being able truly to pronounce on its quality; think of all the people in what everyone calls wonderful and exemplary marriages who are quite miserable - and those the other way about as well. Why not then extend the maxim to being able to have a genuine understanding of someone's true views of NSA sex by being the/an other participant in the NSAS mentioned? It also makes it seem like a cross with the
bit in Sex, Lies and Videotape about not taking advice from people with whom one isn't intimate. And I was able to give Mr Ophian something interesting to imagine, which made it all good.

The order was not random. I started with Mr Barker (and I was genuinely astonished that Ms Maddow was too starstruck to be at all familiar with the various indignities suffered by numerous TPIR fondlers of refrigerators), and then just went up by two each time. I didn't feel like dignifying any of the LWs with the acronym provided.
milkshake is beyond clueless.

Carolyn - if your dog isn't fixed, how are you going to let them out to get their 20+ miles of exercise as day? Dogs out here form little family packs and travel all day, coming home at night. If they feel like it they go down into town and hitch rides back from friendly neighbors. Having seen how different dogs are when house kept vs. kept loose, I know I would never keep a house kept dog. It's just too mean. They don't know what they are missing I guess, but damn it's not how they are supposed to live. The only time they are penalized by having to stay indoors is if they start maiming deer, and then it's just pathetic and sad to see them have to live the rest of their lives on a leash, only able to run free on rare supervised occasion, and never again with their pack.

In Europe and South America they also have places where you can take your dog to get it laid, as constant sexual frustration, as we all know, is a hellish way to live.
Mr. Ven @60:

Maxims aside, I thought I'd just take my friends' word for it. It has worked out fine so far.

Fair enough not using the stated acronyms, but it was a bit confusing.


While I appreciate the assist, I'll be able to provide interesting things for Mr. Ophian to contemplate for quite some time to come. I'm resourceful like that : )
Fun letters. Thanks, Dan.
Bad Mama Jama was the first porno I ever saw, at a friend's 16th birthday party. Lifted from the video store she worked at.

I still get a queasy feeling every time I hear that phrase...
@49 seandr: I'll wear a catsuit any day!! Meowrrr!!!
@59 Married in MA: I wish you could have a heart-to-heart talk with my older sibs. I'm turning 50 next year, too---geez!
Why do I keep seeing humiliatingly horrific visions of a pony and a clown waiting for me at Chuck E Cheese all because my oldest sister still fondly remembers holding me all the way home from the hospital?
Methinks it's time to plan a good long trip around my next birthday-time.
@49 Hello Kitty? or Hellooo, kitty?
Mr Rhone - I am sure that you are more than capable of providing Mr O with plenty to contemplate (and plenty of matter for less cerebral activities as well).

I should have added that yours is only hearsay evidence. I don't distrust your interpretation or disagree with anything you've postulated - and much of the posts of many of us amount to the same. But it gave me the amusing idea that perhaps your evidence is better and your experience has been a bit more varied than you've admitted, and I dropped a subtle hint to that effect, thinking, among other things, that Mr O might appreciate the point.

(I could respond to your postscript, but it's giving me a little case of the creeps, which I shall pay you the compliment of presuming to be unintended.)
Bother - insert "further" between "your" and "postscript".
Ms Grizelda - A good, long trip seems an excellent idea. I recommend New Zealand - nice and far from home (except for our Australian friends).
Double bother - after "postscript", of course. Too much multitasking.
BARK, like many men I've been fixed. All that happens is you get a small incision, a few titanium clips installed, and you're permanently sterile. (Newer techniques evolve constantly.)

I watched the doc do mine, it is out patient and a piece of cake. You just take a few days off on the couch in front of the TV. (Hell, I'd started clearing the pipes out the same afternoon.)

@43 & 48- that is not sound reasoning ladies, it is two apparently bitter people with bad experiences in their respective relationships agreeing with each other.
Mr. Ven @70: It was meant to be somewhat provocative since your hinting at NSA sex with my female friends (some of whom I have known over half my life and consider family) gave me a little case of the creeps- which I shall pay you the compliment of presuming to be unintended.
@63- I don't know what the fuck you think is cute about dogs forming packs a d roaming around unattended, don't be surprised when one of your little friends attacks someone or destroys someone's property and/or gets attacked themself.
@75: That is not caustic wit, Ankelsaur, it is one apparently humorless crank poorly masking some bitterness of his or her own. And for the record, I'm a guy.
Mr Rhone - Fair enough. Had that status been clear from the onset, I'd have avoided the hint. Someone in that position would naturally bring about an onset of creeps. The mental picture I had was that of the sort of friend with whom, should you ever feel it desirable to rehearse for your upcoming MFM threesome (which, you may recall, I floated first, though I'm sure you and Mr O both had the idea in mind), you'd be able to practise without any Justin-Daphne ickiness afterwards.

I translate so poorly into Human that, whenever I think of anything that might amuse anyone here, I feel almost honour bound to mention it. Besides, it lightens my tone.
Oh, dear. Is someone trying to impersonate Mr Ank?

(Mr Rhone - I think he left before your time. Or were you lurking then? Anyway, I hope he is happily enjoying his study of Latvian, wherever he may be, and toning down his impulse to use the F word.)
FTE sounds like a huge PITA-type. I've been in the type of relationship where you realize that the other persons emotional needs are so high that you can't possible fulfill them or even hope that they will act fulfilled - they'll just move the goalposts further back. So you can keep pressing on in a quixotic quest - or you can just decide to get yours and let your partner do what they need to do to get theirs.

She also sounds like the type that doesn't like hearing about exes. She wants to know her partner likes sexually but doesn't like to hear that her partner enjoyed riding the baloney pony with the cute barista at the cafe near her apartment after college.

Basically, a complete fucking hypocrite.
@79: The thought of "rehearsing" a MMF threesome with Ophian and some as-yet-unnamed female with local friends is actually pretty amusing. And your highly idiosyncratic thought process (and prose style) is often its own leavening agent, so don't be so self-critical.

@80: I'm not familiar with Mr. Ank, no.
ROPER: Not fond of bondage? So do what I do (or the appropriate variant of it). I tie up and gag the missus and have an uninterrupted session viewing SportsCenter.
The column this week was great! More of the same, please.

I enjoyed the discussion on responsible pet ownership & it reminded me to renew our pet licenses. I doubt there's much enforcement but I'm happy to support the Seattle Animal Shelter anyway.
@81: "So you can keep pressing on in a quixotic quest - or you can just decide to get yours and let your partner do what they need to do to get theirs."

Or you can act like a decent person, own up to your disinterest (and borderline contempt), and end it.
I find it funny that FTE is fixated on whether or not her girlfriend is a Real Lesbian when the real problem is as obvious as a Canadian flag on the 4th of July.

Being a lesbian is far too politicized. And that needs to stop.
I think what I would end up doing in DID's shoes would be to quietly stop having anything to do with his loutish brother. If anyone asks, I would simply state that since I've turned 50, my life is very busy and I no longer have time for activities that include him for reasons that he knows full well.
CULL -- I hope you realize the last bit of Dan's advice is snark for the sake of humorous writing. I'm pretty sure if you actually say "...or [your] BF is out of the picture—whichever comes first" it won't go over very well with her (let alone with him, if it gets back to him).

Don't worry, the second phrase is implicit in the first. If her new relationship doesn't work out, you will get more points for not being contemptuous of it in its infancy.

In the meantime, if she is inclined to obey his embargo, that says something about how seriously she takes you. You two could have taken things to the next level, but for some reason you two didn't, and she chose to go there with someone else. Don't go chasing trouble where it isn't worth chasing.(Absent all the other things that do qualify as red flags, that is. Personally, I wouldn't blame the guy too much for being insecure about someone his new girlfriend was fucking on a regular basis.)
If Fixing To Explode's latter was published 13 years ago, I would have guessed that Ellen DeGeneres had wrote it.
M? Storm - The tone might natch, but the adjective is wrong. Ms D probably would have used the G word instead of the L word.
@72 vennominon: New Zealand sounds like a great place to visit!
Okay--I'm putting it on my bucket list of travel-do's. Thanks!

@87 fi restless: That works for me, too, in regards to my disrespectful sibs, their spouses, two adult nephews and a niece out of my beloved parents' five grown grandchildren, and some of my remaining older relatives.
I agree, and am already doing just that.
I'm living to be happy, not "obligated".

Mr Rhone - Good relations reestablished then.

Mr Ank (short for Ankylosaur) was a prolific comment poster for some time. He was a Brazilian whose greatest passion was linguistics, living in the Netherlands with a Russian wife who forbade him to study Latvian. One too many threads in which he was alone on a limb arguing relentlessly, often against large numbers, burned him out. I once ventured that he would rather be right than kind, an assessment he thought to have some accuracy.
@49 seandr: Oh, geez! Did I scare or piss you off with my kitty purring?
I was just agreeing with your comment to BARK and expressed preference of a sleek catsuit over a bulky dog costume.
As you and everyone well know---I'm decent. I'm not quite sure about normal, though.

Hey, Dan---do you, Terry and DJ still have Stinker?
Lolorhone - please see #24, and, am I just imagining things, or am I getting a hint of an impending possible threesome involving you and Ophian, with the female spot as yet unfilled???
@auntie grizelda: I couldn't possibly be pissed off at a woman in a cat suit.

I can imagine being a little scared, but in a good way.
@94 It does capture the imagination, doesn't it ? Sometimes I wish I lived in Seattle...

@lolorhone : thanks for #58 :-) English is tricky...

@auntiegrizelda & seandr : are you familiar with Chi's Sweet Home ?
Still Thinking @94:

1) The first rule of NSA-lovin' girlfriends is you do not talk about NSA-lovin' girlfriends...

2) What began as a discussion on the prudence of a MMF threesome between a LW, her husband, and her gay best friend somehow morphed into Ophian and I becoming her practice partners, with the role of photographer auctioned off to benefit the It Gets Better Project- which now that I think about it would have made us charitable porn stars. I believe the whole thing was Mr. Ven's suggestion (it was a Bi-Centric July post- ask him for details) but the proposal is still occasionally floated by those who were on that thread. Nothing concrete, however. Besides, actually flirting with Ophian trumps any hypothetical MMF tryst.
sissoucat @96: Your diction was perfect; using "fast" instead of "soon" is just a little formal and old-fashioned.
Mr Rhone is correct. An OSM bi female LW wrote in wanting an MFM threesome - as she indulges her straight husband, he agreed to a romp with her drop dead gorgeous gay friend, whom she claimed to be attracted to her husband.

My original Bicentric July post was that, unless the LW was committing the cardinal sin of rounding, the threesome ought not to take place because the DDGGF was not sufficiently polite to claim to be at least bi-curious. That was in some way a tribute to Ms Erica's very hard line that every participant in every sexual activity should present as being enthusiastic about whatever is being done being what (s)he absolutely wants to do solely for selfish purposes, as in, even if Partner V is indulging Partner W in Act Z, V should be presenting as personally panting for Z and not as Doing This for You, even with the most generous spirit.

My serious reply was to be irked that the LW just assumed that, because DDGGF was attracted to her husband, he'd automatically be up for an MFM. Mr Rhone thought, without the support of any evidence, that she'd already at least given serious consideration to DDGGF's response. We then established that we know a good many of the same sort of man, only the men he knows present as gay while the ones I know present as bi. All the better, in a way.

After a bit more flirting between Messrs Rhone and Ophian, I added a [BJ] post to the effect that the LW needed to rehearse an MMF or an MFM before actually attempting one, clearly the only thing to be done was for her to practise with Messrs O and R before attempting the same with her husband and DDGGF. The idea met with the approval of the participants involved, and the further details of the charitable benefit emerged in part because Mr Savage, who advised the LW to pursue the threesome, made his standard request to send pictures.

One thing I didn't mention in the previous thread was that the way the LW referred to her DDGGF in exactly that terminology struck me as a bit disrespectful, similar to the way that opposite-sexer men ogle lesbians. I think it was her leading with DDG rather than mentioning that detail later; it seemed to centre her desire for the GF above the friend's attraction to the husband or the husband's being GGG.
Cull has a Mme Merteuil/Valmont situation going on. I leave it as an exercise for the reader who is who, and which one will die in a duel.
@sissoucat: Alas, I haven't read that series.

English is tricky...

Such a formal and old-fashioned language. Americans in particular seem to struggle with it. :-)
Mr. Ven @99, I have no such hard line and wish you would stop saying so (or come up with a link, so I know where you got the idea).

As I wrote the last time you made that assertion,
>> I encourage people to try to find something to enjoy in any adventure, [but] that doesn't mean people who hate X have to endure X, let alone try to enjoy it. ... Ideally, A gets some pleasure from the happy memories A now associates with B's favorite kinks, and vice versa. If B's kink disturbs or upsets A, that happy state will be harder to attain, and the couple may be less compatible. >>…

Your version makes me sound like a raving lunatic. Could you stop, please?
I acknowledge that Ms Erica's position is now what she says it is. As the original thread is more than a year old, it is not worth trying to establish what once was written, but I maintain with sincerity that her views did once strike me as rather different. Any appearance of oddity should be attributed to imperfect recall, but my recollection is that Ms Erica was strongly opposed to openly indulging a partner in a way that seemed quite similar to how some Chinese label beneficence a sin.

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