Columns Nov 27, 2013 at 4:00 am

Slam Bam

Comments

110
102, 4th paragraph- Venn--

There's a 4th alternative for progress, one that also has impediments, but which seems to me the only hope. That's wide scale movement to change attitudes. In other words, organize.

Consider the history of the women's movement. In 1960, a woman could expect that any male mentor in her job as elementary school teacher, hair dresser, librarian, nurse, secretary, store clerk, or waitress could only expect sex in return for favors, not even real guidance on career advancement. I don't think anyone much thought it could or should be much different. Maybe they could imagine taking the sex out but probably couldn't conceive of putting real mentoring in.

We all know the story of what happened next. The Feminine Mystique, Roe v Wade, women's lib. It wasn't any one thing as much as a million tiny attitude changes, maybe one girl each in a bunch of high schools wanting to take the advanced science classes, one argument in a bunch of marriages about who changes the diapers.

I believe the change it mentoring will follow the same pattern. It will likely be one step forward and 2 steps back as in any reform. But eventually it happens.
111
Ms Crinoline - I assumed organization as a necessary part of any progress. None of my possible paths were a case of Jeannie blinking or Samantha twitching her nose and hey, presto! problem solved. Organization would be required for various options in different directions - convincing men not to play golf with male employees, getting wives/society to foster marital environments conducive to mentoring women, or even (and here I finally have the other part to, while still trying to increase M-F mentoring, accepting that attempting to equal all mentoring on all sides isn't necessary or doable) having women executives each leave two women executives behind them.

I could go into a long post here on the perils of heterosexual homosociality, but that would take all afternoon.
113
Nipples was already broken up and it was her boyfriend that left the snarky myspace comment and as I remember it someone else commented immediately and told him to STFU

Mark Twain never said that, you said that, and anybody worth their spit knows that sex happens in Heaven every goddamned day, it's how babies are made dipshit, if there were no babies made, there is no real estate for residents whose previous dwelling expires

and how the fuck did Elan end up on the same plane, if Diana intentionally waited til the very last minute to change her ticket, almost missing the plane, in attempt to avoid that type of shit from happening. Google needs a fucking restraining order, this is bullshit, the more I think about it , the more pissed off I get
114
SON, I completely agree with the comments of #17 (Crinoline).

It is unusual that I disagree with Dan, but 5 years is a very big age difference at your age (or should be)! Normally, there is a big difference in maturity and life experience between an 18 and 23 year old. Not so for the 5 years difference between a 28 year old and 33 year old.

I think that unless the boss has come out and suggested you and his 18 year old son (still in high school?....are you going to prom when you aren't pegging him?) couple up this should be considered hands off! I think the boss and wife would view this as a betrayal of their trust! You are invited into their home, and you take advantage of their immature and inexperienced son. Career suicide.

If you were a 23 year old male and their child were female I don't think anyone would hesitate for a minute in comdeming this situation. For some reason women seem to get a pass when they are being creepers. You are being a big creep and may ruin your entire professional career depending on the field you are in.

Grow up.
115
NIPPLES:

"I'm not sure what talking about it would accomplish, other than being honest at the expense of my boyfriend's feelings, and probably making me feel bad for something that, although it seemed innocent and harmless in the moment, I shouldn't have done."

It would push boundaries, which, in a relationship, is often valuable--if the boundaries are too big, then you break up, but if not, then you become closer, and I'd argue that either possibility is better than the alternative of not pushing them.
116
Sleeping with your bosses son is ill advised and will likely end badly, which is why I would totally do it. Fuck it, you are 23.
117
@115: I'd argue a respect for boundaries is far more important than a willingness to push them. A partner who keeps looking for some new boundaries to push you past is exhausting, and "no respect for boundaries, emotionally exhausting with the drama" is a negative trait to many people. Any pushed boundaries should be chosen with some care and thought, because they are causing a problem in the relationship or for one of the people in it, not just because pushing them would generate some drama.
118
@115: I'm not so sure there was an explicit boundary here as related by NIPPLES. The implied rule seems to have been no other men in the relationship. At worst, this is a borderline case, and a pretty innocent one at that. So I'd say; go ahead and tell. Its an opportunity to clarify the exact nature of the relationships rules based on a pretty trivial event. Unless of course there was a "no licking nipples without prior approval clause" that wasn't mentioned.

I do detect a degree of guilt in NIPPLES reaction to this incident. And that might do more relationship damage, unresolved, than a minor transgression by itself.

119
@118: I think there were two rules, fairly well understood between them. a) No other guys. b) Other girls only in the context of three-ways, her-bf-extra girl. So she broke both of those, but in a minor way. Guilt is normal.

Whether the guilt is all out of proportion, or feeding off background (e.g. her bf hates the guy who watched, or her behavior after drinking has been an issue between them before) we can't tell.

I think one problem with "telling to relieve guilt" is that it transforms guilt rising from your actions into guilt rising from not being honest about your actions. Often, getting your shit together and never repeating the action would be the respectful thing to do with your partner. Or, figuring out your underlying shit that led to the transgression and dealing with that together.
120
If I were NIPPLES, i would probably tearfully allude to something that she did that was bad - very, very, bad - and for which she is immensely sorry. Then proceed to tell the story of strip poker that got a little out of hand and then led to her licking another woman's nipple.

Given the big lead up, the BF will probably feel relieved and a little consolate, and consider it a no-harm no-foul scenario.
121
Have to pipe in here and say HNU, I have been with my boyfriend for 6 years, about two years in we went on a road trip for my birthday, and during that trip we actually had a conversation about saying "I love you" - basically we felt the same the phrase in question is both generic and vague, and we ha over time developed our own vocabulary of how to express our feelings that was like a secret code for how we felt specifically about each other. This was a good thing, and yeah, sometimes we do say it, but mostly we don't because we both understood it wasn't the words that were important, it was knowing that indeed our feelings were specific and reciprocal. Actually having that conversation instead of just throwing it out there as a big surprise is something I would reccomend, finding your own words has become a surprisingly special and intimate way to communicate our feelings for each other.
122
"We never fight." Any time I hear those words, I just count the seconds til the relationship is over.
123
The boy and I have been together for almost four years now, and I told him I loved him five months into it (we were in an LTR, and I told him a *little* early because I didn't want it to slip out over the phone rather than in person), but he didn't reply until two years into the relationship.

I think at some point without them telling you, you know. When they actually say it (provided it's not within the first 72 hours) doesn't matter.
124
Son might mention to her boss that his son asked her out and despite the age difference she had some attraction to the younger man.Just o determine his thoughts on the matter

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