I’m going to say up front that
I’m a complete and total asshole.
I have been with my current boyfriend for
about three years and we are living together. About a year ago, our
relationship started to go bad when I found out I was pregnant and
ended up having an abortion. Every time I look at him, all I see is
this baby I didn’t have and I feel horrible to the point where now I
don’t like him to even touch me anymore. I don’t want to hurt him. I
just don’t see how I can carry on in this relationship anymore.
Compounding all of that, an old flame from
Europe is back in my life, and I am still in love with him and I know
he still loves me. This guy was my knight in shining armor in college
but he had to return to the UK, so we couldn’t really have anything.
But now the possibility is there because our lives are at a stage where
we could move and make it work. I have no idea how to deal with any of
this. The old flame looks better and better all the time and I am doing
so badly here, but I don’t want to hurt anyone. I don’t see any route
at this point that won’t end with at least one person in tears. Please
help!
Definitely Out Of My Depth
Presumably there was a good reason why you
decided against having a child with the boyfriend. Perhaps you told
yourselves that it wasn’t the right time, DOOMD, but it seems more than
likely you realized, consciously or subconsciously, that he wasn’t the
right person: He wasn’t the man with whom you wanted to have children.
Or perhaps the boyfriend was so strongly opposed to becoming a father
that you decided to have an abortion—an abortion you instantly
regretted and resent him for. Either way, DOOMD, I don’t see how your
current relationship survives.
And we haven’t even addressed the existence
of the Euro. You still have feelings for your old college
flame—clearly—and if you stay with the boyfriend for the
rest of your life just to spare his feelings, DOOMD, your
resentments will metastasize. Again, I don’t see how this relationship
survives.
But none of that answers your question, does
it? You’ve asked me to identify a way out—a route out—that
spares everyone’s feelings. Sorry, DOOMD, but I can’t help you. If you
pass on the Euro because you can’t stand the thought of hurting the
boyfriend, you’ll be miserable. And if you stay with the boyfriend,
you’re only postponing his misery. Your resentments will grow and
spread, like so many tumors, until they ultimately kill this
relationship. If the Euro has moved on by that point, then all three of
you will wind up miserable and alone.
I’ve been married for 12
years. Six months ago, I separated from my wife, and during that time I
had an affair. Ultimately, I figured out that I couldn’t make it work
with this “other woman,” and I am now working to reconcile with my
wife. But the sex with the affair partner was incredible—not just
because she was new, but because we were highly compatible sexually.
The sex was adventurous in ways that it never was with my wife.
I think my wife and I can rebuild all the
other parts of our marriage, but I worry I’ll always unfavorably be
comparing my wife to this other partner. Sex for my wife and me was
okay but not great before our separation, but I know we both want it to
be a rewarding part of our marriage going forward. Any thoughts? Will
the memories of my affair partner fade with time? Can I somehow use my
affair experience to build a better sex life with my wife?
Can’t Shake The Other Woman
Maybe you and the wife just aren’t as
sexually compatible as you and this other woman, and never will be.
Maybe the only thing you can do, CSTOW, is focus on the other things
the wife brings to the table, the emotional if not sexual
satisfactions.
Or…
Sometimes we feel freer sexually when we’re
with people we care about less. When we’re with someone we’re
never going to see again (a one-night stand) or someone we probably
shouldn’t see again (another woman), we’re not as concerned about
scaring that person off. When we’re with someone who has
“potential”—someone with long-term prospects—we tend to be
a little more cautious. The stakes feel higher, and that can be
inhibiting. We’re less willing to take risks, we’re less open, we’re
less likely to act on our fantasies.
So it’s possible that your problem with the
wife isn’t sexual incompatibility, CSTOW, but sexual inhibition. Have
you tried fucking the wife like you fucked the other woman? Have you
ever risked fucking the wife like you’ve fucked women who you’re never
going to see again?
Sixteen months is way too soon
to be discussing marriage? Really. Really?? How long are we supposed to
drag out the courtship, Dan? While I agree with you that three months
is much too soon, I’d argue my own personal case: My wife and I married
almost a year to the day of our first date, and that was 26 years ago.
So while your advice to Lady In A Relationship was sound, your blanket
assessment of the relationship landscape overlooks those of us who have
a brain. Jussayin’…
Mr. Right
Good thing I give advice for a living, MR,
and don’t do binding arbitration. People are free to disregard my rants
if they think I got it wrong and make up their own minds. And maybe I
went a little overboard: Depending on the couple, 16 months could be
the right time, or a right time, to start discussing marriage. Still, a
long engagement is always a good idea, regardless of how long you’ve
been dating. If you’re positive he or she is “the one” at three
months—or eight months, or sixteen months—he or she will
still be the one at three years.
My fiancé and
I—we’re a straight couple—are getting married in
July. We’ve lived together for four years, and as such we don’t need
any more then we already have. We’re asking friends and family to make
donations to nonprofits that are dear to us in lieu of traditional
gifts. We’re both grade-school teachers, so the bulk of our requests
are related to the needs of our students. (Shameless plug: Refugee
Women’s Alliance and New Futures are two amazing programs that
specifically serve students where we live.) We’re including Planned
Parenthood on our list, and we would like to include a nonprofit that
advocates for marriage equality. Which one would you suggest?
Soon To Be Married
Thanks for thinking of us, STBM, which is
more than President Obama is willing to do: I would recommend that you
put Lambda Legal (they’re lawyers, they sue) and Freedom to Marry
(they’re advocates, they woo) on your list. Unlike most national gay
organizations, Lambda Legal and Freedom to Marry do good work
and get results. Thanks and congratulations!
@28: AAAAAAGGGGGG!!!
Gloria, bychance are you “Lezzie-gonna-be-mommie” on page 290 of Dan’s Savage Love collection?!?
If you are, I agree with Dan: I hope that you and your sister’s idiot boyfriend are both sterile.
Guess I don’t understand the whole wait to get married thing. Odds are pretty good it’s not going to last anyway so I say do it, undo it and move on – NEXT! So much for the scantily of marriage bullshit the fundies keep talking about – whatever that it.
@53 — Your lack of integrity is telling and uninspiring.
I hope you never get married.
@52: No. I have two brothers, but no sister (as far as I know!) — and I’m straight. I actually have no idea what you’re talking about, but now … I want to know.
@52: Oh, I think I almost remember that letter … but anyway, my “basters” comment was making fun of the belief that a giant wedding and honeymoon is required in order to have a kid. Nope! It’s a biological process, turns out (surprise).
Of course, two present parents is always the ideal situation, but it didn’t sound like @23 was prioritizing that idea.
@49: “Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell” is a federal law, so it would not be that easy. Obama has always been pretty noncommittal on gay issues, so his inaction does not surprise me in the least.
How long should a couple wait before marrying? I think it depends a lot on their age. If 19-year-olds have been dating a year, I’d advise them to not to think yet about marrying. They are at a stage of life where they should be growing emotionally and changing (“discovering themselves”) – and they should wait to see whether they grow and change in ways that are compatible.
If a couple of 30-year-olds have been dating for a year or even less, it’d be fine for them to discuss marriage – assuming they are of normal emotional maturity. Most 30-year-olds know themselves fairly well. Plus they’ve had past relationships that have led them to know what they do and don’t want in a partner.
I think Obama is remembering Clinton and the early gay activism that shot that Administration’s “Honeymoon Period” off the frickin’ map. It pretty much put paid to Clinton getting any major reforms thru and gave the Conservative anti-Clinton movement its legs. So Obama is showing he’s learned from history.
Obama is the quintessential pragmatist. His other agenda right now is more vital to the country as a whole. He sees the continued advance in social acceptance of gays; knows time is on that side. So why kill his larger agenda for something that is going to happen anyway?
Plus, given the rise of Extremist Wing Nuts feeling threatened by too much liberal change and a black man as President, why throw a match on that gasoline only a few months along? How about we let Obama get some wins under his belt for the Repugnicans to choke on before we hand them gay marriage as a Limbaugh and O’Reilly rallying point?
I never had a marriage license and that never bothered me a bit during 20 years with my late mate. As a straight woman, I personally support gay rights and gay marriage and let my state reps know it. I’m sorry gays won’t have the full benefits they deserve right away or even in their lifetimes. But as many responders mentioned above, welcome to reality.
You know, just because issues involving homosexuals are at the top of your agenda doesn’t mean they are or for that matter should be at the top of Obama’s. What percentage of the population do they affect? I’m pro equal rights for all, pro gay marriage etc., but there a LOT going on in the world right now and I do not expect him to tackle it straight out of the box, just as I don’t expect “women’s issues” to be at the top of his agenda even though I’m a woman. He’s a political pragmatist as well; homosexual advocates are unlikely to vote Republican no matter what he does, whereas if he starts focusing on “gay issues” to the exclusion of the concerns of the majority of the voters he may very well lose some of the swing voters he coaxed over to win the election in the first place and then we’ll be stuck with more sucking Republicans and we’ll all be screwed. Lay off of it for a while! I’m sorry, but the economy, the instablility and terrorist threat in Pakistan/Afghanistan, universal healthcare, education and whatever the hell is suddenly happening in Iran are more important than gay marriage.
Hey Soon To Be Married, I absolutely hate it when folks “suggest” I donate to non-profits instead of giving them a gift – such implies a gift is expected. Gifts are not, actually. However, your thinking of Marriage Equality is so wonderful that I am going to make a donation in honor of your wedded bliss – whoever you are! Have a wonderful and long marriage full of love and joy!
thanks for the freedom to marry link, dan. i just signed up for recurring monthly donations!!
I’m gonna go out on a limb and say: I think DOOMD is probably an asshole.
Perhaps, not in a maliious, purposeful way… but a sort of “I’m confused and don’t know what I want from life” and a “I need a man to validate me” way that still ends up with people getting fucked over.
DOOMD needs therapy to get over the hurt of her abortion, assuming this is a one time unlucky 1 out a 1000 chance. Otherwise I’d say she needs reliable birth control (and possibly a lobotomy) with therapy to follow. I’m surprised Dan didn’t suggest this.
If she ever really loved her boyfriend, then she should try and work on her relationship, while getting therapy and give it a “season” (as someone else put it). The Euro guy is probably not going to work… she referred to him as “her white knight” and the fairy tale mentality rarily makes for good relationships.
If she never Really loved her boyfriend, or if she didn’t tell him about the abortion… she needs to dump him for his own good.
To me: DOOMD seems immature… so there’s a fair chance nothing will go well.
Don’t forget about GLAD: http://www.glad.org Gay and Lesbian Advocates and Defenders, New England’s crack GLBT/HIV rights team based in Boston. They got us marriage rights in VT (from which the legislature crafted Civil Unions), marriage in MA and CT, and a whole host of other advancements. They have the “6 by ’12” plan for all of New England to have marriage equality by 2012 — and accomplished most of it by 2009! Just RI being weird and a possible referendum in ME. They’re also fighting DOMA on a case that has a serious shot at winning (it’s the federal benefits portion).
GLAD: excellent lawyers. Go Mary Bonauto! Here’s a link to her statement on the DNC fundraiser fiasco:
http://www.glad.org/current/news-detail/…
glad.org
http://www.glad.org
@55 and 56, a.k.a. Gloria:
Okay. No sweat—-I was just wondering.
Crazy letter to Dan though, huh?
Here’s seriously hoping that the letter writer and her breeder sister’s idiot boyfriend really are sterile.
Although, in retrospect, I’m even wondering if the subject contents of that letter were made up deliberately to get a knee-jerk reaction. The very idea of self-insemination with a turkey baster—EEEEEEWWWWWW!!!!!!!
How desperate is somebody to have a kid?
As usual love your responses Dan…but just one side note…I recently read a study that concluded the further couples deviate from marriage after 2 years of dating, the higher the divorce rate. And that applied to either too soon or too long after the 2 year point. So in this case, 16 months is pretty ideal in terms of the wedding talk.
I think people underestimate the impact of abortion on a relationship. We confuse the importance of the freedom to have abortions with the idea that abortions don’t have an explosive personal impact.
I’ve known relationships to survive an abortion, but not many. There are few actions that say more clearly and profoundly than an abortion, “You’re not the man/woman for me.” I know, I know, it’s not supposed to be that way, it’s reactionary, it’s not enlightened. I don’t care. We’re not talking about a rational process. We’re talking about an event that strikes right at the heart of our deepest and most primitive drives: sex, procreation, and survival.
It doesn’t seem to matter how good an idea it was to terminate the pregnancy. It almost doesn’t even matter whether DOOMD or her boyfriend bitterly regrets the abortion; it’s a very deep wound to the bond between the couple either way. If they do regret it — or even worse if one does and the other doesn’t — well, that’s like setting off a bomb. It doesn’t surprise me that DOOMD can barely stand to touch her boyfriend anymore. The bond would have to be a very strong one to survive that experience.
Thank you for highlighting the amazing work of Lambda Legal Defense. These attorneys volunteer huge amounts of their time and expertise, and have the fortitude to slog through cases that take years to achieve their success.
CSTOW
I agree with Dan. You may not have the same sexual compatibility with your wife and you never will. Chemistry between two people cannot just be duplicated. If sex with the other woman was so incredible, then why aren’t you with her? There has to be a reason there. The greatest is when you have the sexual and the emotional compatibility. I think a marriage needs both to really survive. Otherwise, you will just be spinning your wheels(never completely fulfilled). I am a woman and just realizing that myself. It is not always just men that find themselves feeling that way.
CSTOW
I agree with Dan. It is possible that you and your wife will not have the same sexual compatibility that you do with this other woman. However, you aren’t with this other woman, why? There has to be a reason there. It is not wrong to want a satisfying sex life. I am a woman, and I too want that. The best possible combination is having sexual and emotional compatibility with someone. Chemistry is hard to duplicate.
I don’t know what has gone on in your marriage or what caused you to split in the first place, but look at yourself very hard to see if you can really mend these things. As a woman, I would not want to be with someone sexually that did not want to be with me or was thinking of someone else. You will end up making both of you miserable in the long run. It may not appear that way now, but it is possible. I would want to know now if my husband felt that sex with me was just okay. Your wife may not feel that sex with you is all that great either. If you can’t be completely happy together, then give her the opportunity to make herself happy somewhere else. You aren’t being honest in that respect either. I wish my husband would have done so at 12 years in for me. He lacked the courage to change and although he kept trying, it is just not the same. Although I would have been devastated at that point in time, I have come to realize that I could have had a better life either with someone else or alone, not with someone who doesn’t really have a passion for me. I only wish that I had known this earlier. Don’t lack the courage to make your life what you want. I can identify with what you are feeling(from both your view and your wife’s view). And, don’t let those that want to bash you make you feel guilty for having the feelings you do. No one can help what they feel.