I just turned 20 and have
been out of the closet for a year. A lesbian friend wants to hook me up
with her gay friend, let’s call him Kyle, a cute, fit boy who runs
track and does theater. The issue is, he’s just 17 and starting his
senior year in high school, while I am entering my junior year in
college. The age of consent where we live is 16. I realize the age
difference is not too big, but he is technically still a minor.
I’m only mildly experienced (I’ve had just one boyfriend), and I’d like
to think I’m a nice guy.

Are there certain things to keep in mind
besides the usual respect and honesty, or should I treat this as any
other potential meeting? Does the “campsite” rule apply with such a
small age gap?

Man In Need Of Recommendation

Meet the boy.

If you hit it off, MINOR, it would be a
shame if you didn’t allow Kyle to benefit from your wisdom, experience,
and cock just because he wasn’t born 12 months earlier. And if you
start going steady—which is what kids used to do before hooking
up ruined everything—and he’s out to his family, I would
urge you to meet his parents. They might not be entirely comfortable
with their son’s sexuality, and meeting the college boy who’s boning
their son might be awkward. But if you go out of your way to reassure
them about your intentions toward their son—above and beyond
boning—they may feel a bit more at ease about the
relationship.

As for the campsite rule—”leave him in
better shape than you found him”—others have pointed out that the
rule should apply regardless of age, sexuality, species, etc. I agree,
of course, but I still believe that older, wiser, and more experienced
partners have a special responsibility to leave their sex partners in
better shape than they found them and should be encouraged to make a
special effort.

I’m 35, gay, and in a
six-year relationship. My husband—not really, but I call him that
anyway—is 38, and we have a great relationship. We have been
monogamous up till now but are open to inviting select others into our
bed. This was prompted by a friend we recently made whom we both find
attractive and who has expressed an interest in us both. He is 24,
cute, and just starting out in Gaydom. We don’t expect anything
long-term, just a nice, mellow friend-with-benefits scenario.

Any suggestions as to issues we might
want to discuss up front?

Good Gay Guys

Tell the 24-year-old not to expect anything
long-term, GGG, and let him know that while you will be treating him
like a piece of meat, you will also be treating him like a human
being. Make sure he understands that his presence in your
lives—and your bed—is meant to be fun and temporary. You
two get to spice it up with some strange; he gets to benefit from
your wisdom, experience, and cocks. And tell him that while he’ll have
a blast with you two, he shouldn’t pass on a date with a potential
boyfriend—but so long as you three are
friends-with-benefiting-it-up, you would like to be informed about any
other sexual contacts he might have.

Then show him the ropes, teach him about
sexual safety, encourage him to open up to you guys about anything he’s
ever wanted to try, help him find his place in Gaydom, and when it
comes to an end—as it will and should—make an effort to
remain friends.

I am a gay male. A couple
of months ago, I developed a friendship with a gay married couple. We
hit it off great—I really enjoy their company. Then they took me
aside and “invited” me into their marriage, and so now I’m in one of
those “polyamorous” groups. I have never been in one before.

I thought I would be able to open
myself up to both of them, but for some reason I
can’t seem to feel love for them both at the same time. I’ve always
seen myself as a strict-monogamy kind of guy. I thought a three-way
would be fun, but when I’m with two guys, I feel like I’m just a piece
of meat. I would like some advice, if you could, please. I feel
inadequate because I can’t feel comfortable in this
relationship.

Feel Like A Prude

So… after knowing you for two
months, this couple essentially proposed to you, inviting you “into
their marriage,” and you accepted. Hmm. Exit this marriage at once,
FLAP. Not because you’re a prude—clearly you’re open to trying
new things—but because at two months, they were idiots to propose
and you were an idiot to accept.

Backing up: Trying something and not liking
it doesn’t mean that you’re a prude, FLAP, it only means that either
“it” wasn’t for you or you tried “it” with the wrong person(s). I
suspect the latter in this case. If these guys, after two months, had
invited you to hang out with them, to roll around with them, to drop by
twice a week for a leisurely spit roasting, I suspect you would’ve had
a better experience, FLAP. Inviting you over to be treated like a piece
of meat—and a human being—would’ve been honest. You
couldn’t be a husband and in love with both of them equally at two
months. Their unreasonable expectations, and your attempt to live up to
them, ruined what could’ve been a nice little affair.

I’m a gay dude who has been
trying to find an all-natural and organic lube. The only one my hubby
and I liked was a brand called Bliss, but alas, they stopped making it.
When I try to look online or at the local co-op, the only all-natural
sex lubricants I can find all say something to the effect of “closest
possible to a woman’s natural vaginal fluids.” I have two problems with
this. Problem number one: eeewwwww. Problem number two: When I
have sampled these just-like-vaginal-fluids lubes, they seem very thin.
A healthy bout of anal sex needs something with a bit more viscosity.
Is there an all-natural lube out there that doesn’t quickly dry out and
washes off easily? Some friends keep suggesting vegetable oils, but I
don’t want to have to wash off my junk with Dawn after sex.

Lubing Up Butts Environmentally
Safely

“Not that vaginal juices are
eeewwwww-ey,” says Rachel Venning, cofounder of Babeland, one of
my favorite sex-toy shops. “But I don’t want a jar of them on my
nightstand either. I want something that stays slick longer, like
packaged lube.”

Babeland makes its own organic lube, a
water-based lube called Naked that’s thick, latex-safe, and good for
butt play. “It comes in totally ungendered, nonplastic packaging,”
Venning adds, making it perfect for squeamish-about-girl-bits fags like
you and me, LUBES. “Another new brand of organic lube to try is Sliguid
Organics Gel. There is a teeny-tiny women’s symbol in the logo, but if
that isn’t too much of a turnoff for this man-loving man, it’s good
stuff.”

Vegetable oils aren’t condom-safe, of
course, but if you and your partner are seroconcordant and having anal
sex with only each other, Venning suggested “some natural unguent from
the beauty aisle—shea-butter balm or the like. Not as slippery as
lube but lasts longer.” recommended

Find the Savage Lovecast (my weekly
podcast) every Tuesday at thestranger.com/savage.

mail@savagelove.net

This article has been updated since its original publication.

72 replies on “Savage Love”

  5. Excellent advice to Minor. I know plenty of high school seniors who happen to be female dating young men in college. Also, where else is this young man still in high school going to find a confident boyfriend close to his age group? There may be other gays boys at his school but that dating pool has to be somewhat limited I would think.

  7. Excellent advice to Minor! I know plenty of high school seniors who happen to be girls dating young college men. Also, where else is this young man still in HS going to find a confident boyfriend close to his age? There may be other gay boys at his school but that dating pool would have to be pretty small I would think.

  9. Great, honest, sympathetic advice to the first three. For the last, always good to have friends in…odd places.

    Feh, you and your fear of girl bits…

  10. FYI Guys, Good ‘ol Heavy, (or light, but heavy’s better), Mineral Oil from the drugstore or supermarket is GREAT lube. It’s natural and, I believe, organic. It’s liquid Vaselene.

    It’s made for internal use as an oral or douche laxative, is tasteless, odorless, and smoother than most veggie oils. It’s virtually hypo-allergenic. Also, it’s VERY inexpensive, and works well for massage. It does not dry out, but does get absorbed a little. Just add a dab more. Did I mention it’s tasteless and odorless…?

    It’s easy to apply, via a plastic squeeze bottle.

    It’s not recommended for comdom use, but is less destructive than veggie oils, and works great with toys. Once again, it’s made for internal use. It’s also easier for clean-up, as you may desire.

    Hope this helps.

    Love ya Dan!

  11. gbrooks, eh, I wouldn’t want to use mineral oil on a regular basis because it’s a petroleum based product http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-mineral-… and it seems as if all those plastics and petroleum doodahs are getting scarier the more those science types study them.

    I used to put vaseline on my nose when I had a cold (tmi?) until my friend the ENT told me to stop because of the danger of lipid pneumonia.

    ok, ok so your private parts aren’t part of the breathing apparatus, so it might be perfectly fine. But still. Eugh.

  18. Coconut oil. All-natural and organic lube, semi-solid at normal room temperature (no spills), easily and instantly liquefies when warmed to skin temperature. It’s worked just dandy for me and my partner for decades. I know what you mean about something being “too thin,” but coconut oil is perfect, especially when he gives me handjobs. Oh, it’s nice. Very nice. Used to be you could only get it in natural food stores, but it’s all over the place now.

    Now, it is a vegetable oil, and takes a little cleanup, maybe a little soap. But, dude, when men fuck it’s MESSY. At the very least there’s cum involved, which can wind up just about anywhere, and would you want it any other way? Cleanup, whatever it takes, is, as Dan would put it, part of the price of admission.

    Bonus: It abbreviates as “coc. oil”

  20. LUBES might want to try ‘Yes’ it is completely natural and hypo-allergenic – trust me, I’ve had some bad reactions to seemingly innocuous water based products. It smells good and doesn’t stain.
    My only complaint is that it doesn’t adhere to toys very well.
    … Oh, and vaginal juices aren’t to be afraid of .. although I prefer guys I’ve had a couple of girlfriends over the years and have caught myself musing on the convenience of a self-lubricating hole .. “it’s almost like they were designed for the purpose ..”

  23. “Seroconcordant” and “unguent?” This column was totally irrelevant to me (a straight dude who nonetheless doesn’t begrudge you going back to the loyal base for a change), but nice use of some uncommon vocabulary!

  25. i.e. the loyal base: pleasant and welcome column – things are getting rough in the country, you’re a breath of well-deserved fresh air

  27. I find it amusing that a typical column inspires tons of bickering in the comments, but, thusfar, this column has rendered only helpful or positive comments. Yay.

  29. FYI just once more. I thoroughly checked the link provided by commenter #12, and everything of substance seems to SUPPORT my position. (Legs up, knees to ears… lol!)

    One more thing. The guy who invented petroleum jelly ate a TABLESPOON of the stuff EVERY DAY, and lived to nearly 100 y/o.

    Now, talk about “self-lubricating”…

    (Sorry ladies, it’s GAY DAY!)

  30. To LUBES: I don’t know if “condom safe” is on your must-have list, but my wife and I just started using Firefly Organic Lubricant. It’s organic AND hypoallergenic, mostly made from Shea and Cocoa Butter. Stuff is hella awesome, tastes like nothing, and lasts FOREVER. Also, it doesn’t feel gross on your skin, because it’s really just high end lotion that you can use on your insides. You can use it for, say, foot sex and just leave the stuff on when you’re done, and it just dries/absorbs like regular lotion. Good luck!

  31. To LUBES: I don’t know if “condom safe” is on your must-have list, but my wife and I just started using Firefly Organic Lubricant. It’s organic AND hypoallergenic (but NOT condom safe), mostly made from Shea and Cocoa Butter. Stuff is hella awesome, tastes like nothing, and lasts FOREVER. Also, it doesn’t feel gross on your skin, because it’s really just high end lotion that you can use on your insides. You can use it for, say, foot sex and just leave the stuff on when you’re done, and it just dries/absorbs like regular lotion. Good luck!

  32. Oh! One more thing. I’ve been using Heavy Mineral Oil, and Vaselene as a lube for more than 40 years. (I’ve not found an “off brand” petroleum jelly with the exact properties of Vaselene.)

    So far, so good…

    I have tried other products, but these do it for me…

    Peace

  34. ‘ “closest possible to a woman’s natural vaginal fluids.” I have two problems with this. Problem number one: eeewwwww. ‘

    All I can say to that is: ‘Santorum, EEEWWWWWWW!!!’

    🙂

  35. @11: “It’s not recommended for comdom use, but is less destructive than veggie oils…” yeah, and its safer to shoot yourself with a .22 than a .38, but you should NEVER use anything oily around or on anything that will receive a condom.

    @12: ENT told you you’d get lipoid pneumonia from vaseline ON your nose? You’d have to get it IN your nose, then it’d have to slide all the way down into your larynx and you not cough it up, and get into the air sacs deep in your lungs. If you’re constantly high or have trouble swallowing, sure, avoid mineral oil laxatives by mouth, but vaseline on your nose is harmless. I woulda died from epistaxis skiing in Co. if I hadn’t slathered my nostrils with it. It’s like saying not to use gas in your car because you could burn your eyes with it.

  36. @36, So a couple that is in 9th and 10th, then 10th and 11th, and 11th and 12th grade together should break up when the older one graduates?? If he’s cruising the high school parking lot for hookups he can manipulate he’s a loser; if he’s introduced to a compatible cutie who’s a titch younger he’s just a guy.

  38. @FLAP: Don’t let this turn you off polyamory. I was a ‘monogamy’ kind of guy until I started hearing about all the (potential) benefits of poly relationships, and challenged myself over the reasons I thought I needed to be monogamous.

    Poly still takes time (and sometimes effort) to get comfortable with, and it definitely takes people who are prepared to chill out and take things slow. Oh, and poly dating is no different to mono dating: Two months to a ‘marriage’ type relationship is WAY too quick.

    If you wanna give it another shot, try to find a couple you click with and date them. Give it time, shop around, and keep your expectations reasonable: just like you would searching for a long-term mono relationship. And if you find the perfect mono relationship on the way through? Who cares if poly would have worked for you or not? Go for it and forget the whole thing.

  39. I’d be scared to death to be over 18 (particularly 21 or over, which this guy might turn soon) and date someone under 18. You make yourself vulnerable to all kinds of hostile legal heartache.

    Sadly, you’re even more vulnerable if you’re either male or gay — and he’s both. I don’t know where he lives, but if it’s anyplace like where I grew up, that adds another scary level of vulnerability.

    Obviously, people need to date based on their hearts and not their fears — but he hasn’t even been introduced yet. Why not seek out someone from the over-18 crowd?

  41. Maybe it speaks too strongly about what part of the internet I come from, but last time I saw mineral oil + man bits it was not a pretty sight.

    The stuff stings like all fuck when it gets into a cut, too. So, I have no idea why anyone would leap to “LET’S STICK THIS IN YOUR BUM!”

  44. Another lube meant for something else but works great for sex is Albolene, sold as make-up remover (Walgreens has it)in a white tub with a navy lid. Lasts, no odor or taste, great consistency. As for fears about petrolatum (lipid pneumonia???!!!) please—–good slippery sex is well worth what ever miniscule risk there is in petrolatum…….

  45. To MINOR: Try it, if it doesn’t work due to age difference, break it of gently and nicely observing all camp-fire rules. Then keep in touch. I was the 18 year old college student who had off-and-on makeouts with my 16 high school punk rocker friend…. it’s now ten years later and we’re getting married in May. We were “just email buddies” for 7 years of that before we reconnected. Two years is no difference at all now. I can’t say I planned it at the time, but it goes to show that thinking long-term can work out… *grin* And if nothing else, if you don’t promise more than you can give (good advice for any relationship), and observe camp fire rules, you can always stay friends. Friends are good things, even if you don’t end up like we did.

  46. Just signed up, sorry if this posts twice…
    To MINOR: Try it, if it doesn’t work due to age difference, break it of gently and nicely observing all camp-fire rules. Then keep in touch. I was the 18 year old college student who had off-and-on makeouts with my 16 high school punk rocker friend…. it’s now ten years later and we’re getting married in May. We were “just email buddies” for 7 years of that before we reconnected. Two years is no difference at all now. I can’t say I planned it at the time, but it goes to show that thinking long-term can work out… *grin* And if nothing else, if you don’t promise more than you can give (good advice for any relationship), and observe camp fire rules, you can always stay friends. Friends are good things, even if you don’t end up like we did.

  47. If you’re looking for an “all-natural, organic” lube, you’ll find Super-Duper Name-Brand Sellin’ Green Make You Feel Good about Your Earth-Savin’ Self lube.

    “All-Natural Organic” means nothing save from exciting words meant to sell you product. There’s nothing else meaningful, scientifically, about those words. Don’t be a sucker.

  48. Are we sure that when FLAP said that the gay married couple “invited him in” to their marriage, that he meant that they were trying ot make him a permanent partner? Maybe by “inviting him” into the marriage, they were just inviting him to be a temporary sex partner/friend/mutual confidante, ie, a flavor of the month.

    It’s possible, of course, that they were trying to turn their 2-person marriage into a 3-person marriage. But I’m not entirely certain that’s what he meant.

  52. Wal-Mart’s house-brand (“Equate”) jelly lubricant is great for anal play. I’ve no idea if it’s ‘natural,’ but it works significantly better than the silicon and water-based lubes I’ve tried, include the perennial Astroglide. And it’s about $1.50 for 4 ounces.

  53. Seconded with the coconut oil – hey, I have a vag, but it works just dandy up the back. Also, Hemp Body Butter from the Body Shop. Excellent stuff.

    All those people recommending that Yes! lube… huh, I find it goes watery and then dries up in about a minute. I’m not going to buy any more. For girl-type lube, I prefer Sylk (natural kiwifruit extracts), or Probe (the thick one’s good for butts too).

  54. LUBES – use Probe Rich & Thick. Natural, water-based, condom-safe, no taste, no stains and it will enable you to comfortably slide an SUV into any bodily orifice you choose once applied. Just fabulous. Also, because it’s water-based, even if you’re still going when it dries out (which takes a long time, so if you are/can, call me..), just a light dab of water and you’re back in action.

    Seriously – I’ve tried about twenty different kinds of lube and this knocks ’em all out.

  55. Dear Dan,

    A little pussy would be nice for us hetro boys. All this 3way talk is exciting, but alas, I prefer a pussy to be involved in my 3ways. That is, I think I prefer pussy to be involved in my 3ways, but since I’ve never been in one and don’t enjoy anyones penis but my own, I’m not totally sure.

  57. “Vegetable oils aren’t condom-safe, of course, “

    They aren’t LATEX condom-safe. Haven’t you heard of polyurethane condoms. (Though the lefties would probably want to tax them.)

  58. @57
    Dude – the podcast this week was a heterofest. I think he was making the written column a fagfest to balance it out for people like me who tire of pussy talk 😛

    That being said, what happpened to all the fun, kinky, fetishy podcasts and columns? I miss those 🙂

  59. So–girl bits. They may not do it for you, LUBES, but must you really publicly denigrate them? Disliking them doesn’t make you any more gay than you already are. So why not be neutral–at least in a public forum?

    Men, women, furries, diapers, meat hooks, sounds, whatever. Can’t we all just tolerate each other?

    Oh, yes, free speech, right. That’s true. You can write whatever you like, or dislike. But you’re equally free to lose my respect.

    Dan–great column! I’ll try all the lubes.

  61. you threw in “seroconcordant”. like it was nothing. well it isn’t nothing. i think we need to step back and acknowledge that something lexically powerful just happened.

  62. I’m all for organic lube, but I’d be happy if I could find one that really holds up AND did not stain the sheets. My partner and I have been using Eros/Pjur. It’s a great lube. It stays slick forever, but I’m so tired of finding more and more dark spots on the sheets that are still there after I wash them. Anyone have any ideas?

    Michael

  64. hey dan! i really enjoyed your ten minutes of undirected babbling at the beginning of the 8/25 podcast. you should do that more and/or have another podcast dedicated exclusively to your semi-purposive ranting.

  65. My mom and dad were great and always supported me, even though my sexuality was different than theirs.

    My dad was a great dad, always interested in me, caring and supportive.
    My mom was great too. But I was the ass hole in the family. Mothers and daughters in conflict is common is all kinds of families.

    My mother and father are gay. My dad passed away when I was twelve and my mom is now married to a wonderful woman who treats me like one of her own.
    And my mom and I are great friends now, that I’ve finally grown up.

    My point? I don’t have one. Just some people do get to be happy.

  68. MINOR-
    The “boy” will be a “man” in less than 12 months and fooling around now can cost you. How would you like a lifetime of being a registered sex offender? STAY THE FUCK AWAY! His dick isn’t worth it.

  69. Gun Oil, IME, is the best anal lube in existence. And if it’s good enough for our troops, it’s good enough for everyone else.

  71. About the coconut oil: I used it the first time I had anal sex and it worked great. Until I realized I was slightly allergic to it. If you are using vegetable based oils, make sure you don’t have any food allergies!!!!

  72. I’ve been using the sliquid stuff for about six months; that shit is slammin’.
    I prefer the booty formula, it works well for anal and vaginal. Also, there isn’t any sugar in it, so it won’t encourage yeast infections. yay!

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