My husband was 28 when we met and a virgin. When we started having sex, he opened up about being “different.” He wanted to wear panties and wanted me to make fun of his tiny penis. Didn’t love the stuff, but whatever. Now it’s a thousand times worse. He goes to Victoria’s Secret and tells the salesgirls he is being punished by his wife for wearing her panties and that I am “forcing him” to go buy some of his own. He told me he could see our neighbor undressing, so he tried to contact her to see if she wanted to humiliate him while he was dressed as a woman. And he recently “confessed” to a female coworker that he had a deep, dark secret he wanted to tell her. I confronted him, and he said he was going to tell her about me “forcing him” to wear panties and ask if she wanted to see his tiny penis!
He sees nothing wrong with this behavior. I feel like he is a fucking asshole and a pervert who is violating me, our marriage, and other women. I have children with this dude! What the hell do I do?!?
My Husband Is Out
Here’s what the hell you do, MHIO: You make a credible threat to divorce your husband—serve him with actual divorce papers—then you set conditions for suspending divorce proceedings. No more trips to Victoria’s Secret, no more stalking the neighbors, no more inappropriate confessions to coworkers. And he begins seeing a sex-positive therapist immediately.
The shit he’s into—humiliation, “forced” feminization, etc.—can be enjoyed with consenting partners, i.e., women who are either into it or willing to fake it for a reasonable fee. He has no right to drag his coworkers, neighbors, salesgirls, and other innocent bystanders into these extreme humiliation scenarios. And a good, sex-positive therapist—someone who won’t be shocked by your husband’s kinks—may be able to help your husband see that he isn’t being humiliated by these women. He’s humiliating these women—and without their consent.
And that’s not okay.
Your husband is out of control—I’m sure I don’t have to tell you that—and sooner or later he’s going to get his asshole ass arrested. Stalking and sexually harassing women are actual crimes—crimes your loving husband has been so considerate as to implicate you in, crimes that could have a hugely negative impact on the lives of your children. So threaten to divorce him, MHIO, and if that doesn’t inspire him to get help and get a grip, make good on that threat.
My girlfriend of six months found it “awkward” when I used lubricant from a half-full bottle. A half-full bottle “hinted at past relationships.” To me, this was no more awkward than our using condoms from a half-full box—which did not bother her. But she sees condoms as individually wrapped, single-use items, unlike a bottle of lubricant. Was I in the wrong for failing to purchase a new bottle of lube?
Lubrication Etiquette, S’il Vous Plaît
I’m tempted to break into your apartment, LESVP, spike your lube with Frank’s RedHot sauce and open a live feed of the oil pouring into the Gulf of Mexico on both your laptops, because you two need something real to worry about. But as I don’t know where you live: Personal lubricants are expensive. If the girlfriend believes a fresh bottle should be cracked open each and every time she gets with a new partner, then she should carry a case in the trunk of her car. And as a general note: Lube also comes in small, single-ass-serving packets—just like ketchup and mustard and condoms—and anyone worried about half-empty bottles of pubic-hair-befrazzled lube is free to invest in a box.
I have a dilemma: My ex wants me to replace his mattress because I ejaculated on it. Apparently, there was an “unbearable” smell that came about recently due to the heat and humidity where he now lives.
I am not sure that this “stench” is entirely or at all mine. My ex has a cat that peed on items of furniture in the past, for starters, and no other lovers have ever complained about any smell. I also warned my ex that I, a female, was capable of ejaculation. There was an opportunity to grab a towel, but my ex did not stop. In fact, my ex caused me to ejaculate countless times. This ex now lives in a different city on the other side of the country, but we have friends in common.
Should I pay for the replacement mattress? I might have been open to paying half, but the last time we talked, my ex was so negative that I don’t feel any obligation at all.
Should I Soak It Up
I don’t want you to pay for your ex’s new mattress—and I’ll bet your ex doesn’t want you to pay for his new mattress, either.
What’s really going on here, SISIU, is this: Your ex’s out-of-the-blue request for mattress reparations is an attempt on his part, conscious or not, to sever communications with you. He’s picking a fight, one he knows he’s likely to lose (because this is sopping-wet bullshit), so that he’ll have an excuse to stop speaking to you and an excuse to slag you off to your mutual friends.
And even if your ranky, stanky, janky lady spunk ruined your ex’s old mattress, SISIU, you would still not be obligated to replace it. When an adult invites another adult into his bed, he is or should be aware that sexual activity frequently leads to stained sheets and pillowcases, soaked and/or stained mattresses, and, every once in a great while/time, completely and thoroughly destroyed bed frames. A person who is unwilling to eat those losses should fuck on the floor, fuck outside, or fuck at his partner’s place.
Seeing as your ex should have been aware of the general risk sexual activity posed to his mattress, and seeing as you acquainted him with the specific risks you posed to his mattress, the responsibility and the liability are entirely his. So fuck him.
While we’re on the subject of lady ejaculators: Lots of folks wrote in with suggestions for WET, the woman in last week’s column who, like SISIU here, routinely soaked the bed when she came. While I suggested a wrestling mat and towels, numerous readers wrote in to plug the Fascinator Throe.
“It’s a large, double-sided blanket,” wrote one Savage Love reader. “It’s faux fur on one side, satin on the other, with a waterproof barrier in the middle. It comes in lots of colors and costs around $90. It goes anywhere you want to fuck, and it’s easy to clean. This thing saved my bed, and it’s sexier than a wrestling mat.”
Given a choice between a fake-fur bedspread and a genuine wrestling mat, I’d go with the mat—and the wrestler—every time. But lady ejaculators who prefer machine-washable faux fur can check out Fascinator Throes—”the moisture-proof playscape for sex”—at
www.liberator.com.
The Savage Love iPhone app is now available on the iTunes store.
#193 & 197
But the letter does not say what you claim it does. That is my entire point.
The letter does not give us the context or information to decide if “grossly inappropriate contact” (or even infidelity”) are at issue. We do not know what the relationship with the coworker is, what his efforts to make the neighbors acquaintance consisted of, what the conversation was that led up to the revelation to the salesclerk, etc., etc. And no, we also do not know what the agreements or conversations were around monogamy. Without that context we can’t make the judgments you make. It is outrageous to suggest that I’m trying to excuse IMHO’s husband’s behavior. (Have you even READ my posts?) I have always allowed that the scenario you subscribe to might be true, but you seem driven to deny that any other is even possible.
I have always accepted the text of the letter as true (“hypothetically” or otherwise) and never implied it was bogus. I suggested (based on my experience in the scene) that there was a very good chance MHIO’s husband was lying to her, but that doesn’t challenge the letter at all. (And if I wasn’t clear: Yes, the husband is being a asshole if he did that.) It is precisely the ‘making shit up out of their heads’ by the people on this board I have challenged. The letter says, for instance, that “He told me that he could see our neighbor undressing…”, it is a looong leap from that to the stalker/peeper creeping around the bushes with a telescopic lens and all the dire angry statements about legal jeopardy.
You say that if I read the letter enough I’ll see that MHIO is monogamous. (A question I never asked, by the way.) Sorry, I’ve read and read, I don’t see that statement. Now you once again (#197) refuse to answer my question as to whether it would ever by acceptable for someone to be open about their kink to neighbors, coworkers, and salesclerks by even more vigorously dodging to monogamy. Even though we don’t know from the letter what the agreement was on monogamy in this marriage. Even though we don’t know what the context was that might have made any such agreement untenable, etc., etc. (Ever read Dan Savage?)
Like I said, if “wifeofhusband” is MHIO then the issue is settled because she has provided the details that the printed letter has not. But if “wifeishusband” is not MHIO you should be more judicious and stop takeing sides in the dispute based on what is in your own head rather than in the letter.
P.S. I’m not clear how I could be “accusing” Dan of anything. He has already said more than once that he edits the letters and often knows a lot more than what appears on the page, etc. I could no more “accuse” him of that than I could “accuse’ him of being gay. If you have a problem with that, pick the fight with him in your own name, not mine (ours).
@195
Everyone is outraged because the husband is clearly doing non-consensual shit.
There’s a big difference between being open about your fetishes, and forcing unconsenting people to participate in them. Most of my friends know that I’m into BDSM. Some have even given me bondage gear for holiday gifts. Close friends and I freely discuss and joke about our fetishes with each other.
I do not invite my friends over and surprise them with my partner bound and gagged on the sofa. I do not tell my co-workers in excruciating detail about the ways I like to be humiliated and omg isn’t that so humiliating? I don’t call my neighbor out of the blue and describe a threesome fantasy specifically involving said neighbor.
The “bad husband” could openly go lingerie shopping without being a complete creep. There’s a big jump between asking the sales staff “hey, do you have the pink lace panties in a larger size?” and “hey, let me tell you about my humiliatingly small penis.”
I’m glad I came back to this thread. Thank you, MistressRo and Vanilla Swirl Couple.
And wifeofhusband, I’m glad you posted here.
@199/200/201
Thank you Joon, but you’ll need to forgive me for disagreeing that I am assuming or projecting all that much. In fact, I think it is everyone else who has been. Like I’ve said ad infinitum, if it went done the way some folks think it did (and did if “wifeishusband” is for real) than he is totally wrong and needs serious help.
But the letter really, just does not say that and all I’ve been saying is that we should NOT assume what is not in the letter. Assumptions in your own recent posts that are not in the letter include:
– The couple agreed to be exclusive.
– The wife has been GGG enough that it is unreasonable for the husband to void or ignore an exclusivity agreement.
– That each of the two “encounters” (coworker and salesclerk) were non-consensual.
– That the husband’s intentions to the neighbor was also non-consensual.
None of that is in the letter.
And while I appreciate your kindly meant words of empathy, the plain truth is that I have found the tendency of people on this thread to dismiss or frame everything I say based on the fact that I share the man’s kink condescending at best. What I really would have like is for someone to actually engage me on the merits of my points by, say, showing me the part of the letter where MHIO says that “we agreed that we would be exclusive,” or the passage to the effect of: “I am GGG and totally worked with him to keep us both sexually satisfied and be the emasculating bitch of his dreams,” or the sentence that reads: “every night he stares out the window with the lights out watching our neighbor,” or the one “he just dropped the bomb on this poor salesclerk. He told me she was disgusted and horrified…” or “my husband barely knows the coworker…”
(If you doubt my willingness to accept new facts, I will point out that some of these things have been said subsequently by “wifeishusband, claiming to be MHIO and I have said that this information changes everything. Despite my [easing] suspicions that “wifeishusband” was not who they say but merely another jerk reigning sorrow on the woman by usurping her identity I have always treated her with the respect I would give to MHIO just in case.)
Finally, I have to end on an even angrier note of discord between us: I have NEVER, NEVER, ever, once asserted (desperately or otherwise) that “these women were probably into it anyway.” I never said it, I never thought it, I never believed. I only allowed for the fact that we didn’t have the information to know and it was POSSIBLE. I don’t believe I ever even claimed it was likely. (And BTW, not shaped by my desires, but actual experience – just like your own non-“desperate” judgment.) Talk about projecting!
I’m sorry that you are still not willing to admit that it is even POSSIBLE that you could have made any error in your rush to judgment. But I don’t think that gives you license to misrepresent my comments so maliciously. I am really offended that you would ascribe such a sentiment to me.
PS – Sorry to hear about you tech problems in getting the long response up . The same thing happened to me on my last response to Avast2006 and my replacement was more rushed and less thoughtful then my initial try. I sympathize.
@ 203
Quote: “There’s a big jump between asking the sales staff “hey, do you have the pink lace panties in a larger size?” and “hey, let me tell you about my humiliatingly small penis.””
Exactly! There is. And that is my point. The letter doesn’t tell us which it is and all these people are leaping to conclusions.
@205:
All of the things that you say are not explicitly in the letter and therefore cannot be assumed are the general societal and personal defaults. Each one of those items would be a bigger stretch to assume in the other direction. Some of them are mind-bogglingly stupid to assume in the other direction. (“Because I saw her undressing through an open curtain, that means she wants me.” *rolls eyes*)
Here is the letter that she would have had to write for your interpretation to be correct. And yes, this would all have to be explicitly in the letter, or according to your rules we could not assume any of it:
Dear Dan,
“My husband and I have an open relationship. He is allowed to approach other women to meet his sexual needs. In fact, he has been cultivating several women for quite a while now: a coworker, a salesgirl at Victoria’s Secret, and the neighbor who allows him to watch her undress through a window. All of them seem quite close with him, and I’m sure that they all are quite receptive to his advances, and can’t wait to humiliate him and his undersized package.”
If all of the above were true, if he were playing by the rules of their marriage, why would she be writing in to complain about him as ““a fucking asshole and a pervert who is violating me, our marriage, and other women”“
Your gee-maybe-it’s-not-so-bad-as-all-that scenario simply does not compute.
@203
The original letter DOES tell us which it is. She says, “He goes to Victoria’s Secret and tells the salesgirls he is being punished by his wife for wearing her panties and that I am “forcing him” to go buy some of his own.”
The guy dragged the sales staff into his fantasy by making a big production of shopping. He could have just made his purchase and left without telling the staff a humiliating story.
Oops, I meant to say @206.
I just want to say that I feel f*cking terrible for both parties in this situation. The wife is in way over her head and scared of the repercussions of her husband’s actions, the husband is going to possibly lose his family and then face the prospect of finding another partner(s) who are able to participate in or at least tolerate his kink, not to mention how miserable it must be to be in the grip of a powerful sexual compulsion over which you don’t have control.
VanillaSwirl, how can you say anyone here is making any more assumptions than you are? All we have to go on here is the original letter that was published in the column. I understand that this whole discussion may cause you to feel as if you are being attacked. I think most of the readers here are pretty openminded sexually (other than a few stupid anons who chimed in with “she married a freak, hurr hurr, what did she expect”) and no one is bashing kinky people in general or crossdressers who like to be humiliated specifically…most, however, seem to be fully against nonconsensually involving other people in your kink. I refer to the wife here as well as to salesladies, neighbors, and coworkers. If the wife is, as you speculated, not making an effort to participate at all, or breaking some agreement that they had made as a couple, and the neighbor, coworker, and salesladies were all into it, then all that’s off the table…but that’s not how it was stated in the letter, which is, as I said, the only thing we have to go on here.
I, for one, like VSC’s arguments. It’s commendable for him/her to take a strong stand in favor of rational thought, due process, honest conversation, and the value in preserving a marriage. It’s nice to hear someone upholding those principles as fundamental to all marriages including troubled ones.
This panties-wearing guy does seem to be dangerously delusional and removed from reality, though. Clearly, his wife should do the difficult thing and have some unpleasant and straightforward conversations with him, in the most positive/productive way possible, and push for counseling. If it’s as she describes, they definitely do have a problem, because his behavior is making her seriously uncomfortable (which is reason enough for it to be a problem), and has the potential to get them in trouble with the law and affect their daughter’s welfare.
The problem probably won’t go away on its own, and solving it won’t be fun! But it might work out well in the end and lead to a marriage that is still good and fun (and maybe even better).
@210
Joon, you seem like a decent person and I share your sorrow for the couple. It appears from my reading to be far from universal on here where most people feel immediately into “kill the monster” mode and reacted with vitriol when I suggested that they slow down a be a little humble about what they don’t know.
Again, I have not made any assumptions that I notice. What assumptions have i made? Have I assumed that the husband was not guilty, uh, no. Have I assumed that any of the encounters were consensual? No. Assumed they were non-consensual? No. Assumed that the marriage was open or closed? No and no. Assumed that the the wife was either callous or GGG? Double no again. Hey, I’m the guy who refused even to assume that the husband wasn’t lying his ass off to the wife. About the only thing I have assumed is that the letter writer was sincere.
So you show me my assumptions. Really, I want to know. I listed a few of what I saw as yours for you; why not return the favor? You refer to how things are stated in the letter, but that is my whole point, I don’t read it that way at all. If I have misread the letter, show me where.
(And while you are at it, I am still waiting for you to show me the part where I said the I believed anyone was “asking for it.”)
A quote, copied and pasted from a response of yours:
(Hell, for all we know the VS salesclerk asked him if they were for him and flirted with him about it first. Very unlikely, I agree, but not unheard of.)
Your defensiveness makes it nearly impossible to have a coherent discussion with you, so let’s just agree to disagree. I think the letter sounds like a guy forcing his kink on other people, to the distress of his wife, you think the letter sounds like a frigid, angry wife who isn’t doing enough to indulge her husband’s perfectly acceptable desires. Subjectivity, it is really all we have in a situation like this, isn’t it?
@207
Really? It’s your default presumption that people who write into Dan Savage – Dan fucking Savage – are all in exclusive, monogamous relationships unless they say otherwise? Huh. (And people are saying I’m making assumptions.)
And it is a general societal default that if a man shares a deep, sex-related secret with someone it is probably a stranger forcing unwanted confidences rather than a close friends edging towards intimacy or a flirty stranger open to hook-ups? Maybe in your society, not in mine. (Actually, in my world we are generally shocked when someone behaves to your defaults. You must live in a sad, sad place that you have to assume such misbehavior in the people around you.)
Also, what is the deal with this piece of gibberish from you:
“”Because I saw her undressing through an open curtain, that means she wants me.” *rolls eyes*”
Has anyone suggested that such a reaction would be at all rational? I know I never have.
I don’t believe I have criticized the initial letter so much I have criticized people like you for reading your own personal biases and baggage into it. But it is not so hard to imagine that any standard Dan letter bit about “I accept his fetish, I do and I’ve tried to make it work, but now he wants to go outside of the marriage and he promised he never would,” could have made the whole thing way clearer. This kind of stuff appears in the Dan column all the time (Apparently because not everyone shares your defaults.) so I don’t think it as onerous to include as you do.
It is too bad that the writer did not include this and other similar stock Dan column letter info, but I’m not knocking her. Whatever the facts are she and her husband are clearly in a difficult spot. (And that was before complete strangers like you started baying for the blood of her husband.)
If you read the letter as written, the writer’s main concern is that her HUSBAND IS OUT (did you miss that part?) in that he is letting other people know (strangers, coworkers, neighbors) about his kink. She frets specifically about the fact that he implicates her to them, claiming she “forces” him.
Now don’t get me wrong. A husband outing himself like this without the wife’s support is going to be hard on her and send up a lot of warning flags about whether he is treating her fairly and acting responsibly. But I’m supposed to get from that the fact that it is (that she knows, since it mostly based on what he told her) a non-consensual flasher situation in each case? That her main concern is actually that he is planning to have extramarital sex, breaking his vows to her? She writes about how much “worse” his “whatever” fetish is. You know from that – from that – that she has been a long-suffering GGG partner victimized by an egomaniac?
Sorry, I don’t see it. Oh, I see how you could speculate that that MAY be the case, and it may. (Hell, if “wifeofhusband” really is MHIO, it is the case.) But know it for sure? Certain enough to rule out that he may not be quite as much of a jerk as his angry, distraught wife thinks him? Certain enough to rule out the conclusively that she may be a coauthor of her tragedy?
She may be. He may be. It may be. But the letter will bear several scenarios and there are more than enough warning flags the other way to make me wonder. Sorry we can’t all enjoy the perfection of closed mind that you do.
P.S.: Warning flags, by the way are a call for more investigation to find the facts and should be taken as a warning against leaps of faith based on your personal prejudices (even dressed up as “defaults”) as much as an alert that something is awry.
@213
Joon, did you read that quote form my post? Read it again with the parts I’ve capped for emphasis:
(Hell, FOR ALL WE KNOW the VS salesclerk asked him if they were for him and flirted with him about it first. VERY UNLIKELY I AGREE, but not unheard of.)
Further, the context (#149) clearly shows that this is offered as an example of the LIMITS of what could hypothetically be possible in light of the letter text – not a declaration that such a thing is what happened. (I even label it very unlikely, even though I’ve had personal experience of it, because I don’t think it at all likely.) From this you allege my: “many desperate assertions that these women were probably into it anyway”?!?!
And what is this from you?:
“..you think the letter sounds like a frigid, angry wife who isn’t doing enough to indulge her husband’s perfectly acceptable desires.”
Since the one and only time I have said what the letter sounds like to me is @214, and you said this @213 I cannot even fathom how you know what I think the letter sounds like. But to make matters worse, you put into my mouth sentiments I have specifically noted before I have NEVER said. You know it isn’t true that I said such things. (I did say she is angry. I stand by that.) You know I have specifically knocked down such lies before when people slandered me with them before. And yet you repeat them now.
And you wonder that I am defensive.
Let me ask you – in your world is telling lies about people and misquoting them considered somehow more acceptable than ad hominem attacks?
Dull vanilla type here. But I always understood GGG as being about BOTH people being happy. Not about giving one person license to push until the entire relationship is about his enjoyment while the other is miserable, burdened, and not getting any needs met. Whether the pushy person’s needs are ultra mainstream or kinky seems like the LEAST important part of the equation; the problem is the selfishness.
(That, and the felony imposition on uninvolved outsiders. While we’re writing imaginary letters, imagine that he was giving these uninvolved women candy and flowers while asking them to have penile-vaginal sex with him. Removing the kink from the story doesn’t help, does it?)
About the GGG thing–yes, if a woman has strong submissive tendencies, she’s never going to enjoy domming. But aside from those women–your average woman I think would absolutely enjoy FemDom, because FemDom is all about the woman getting exactly what she wants. Everything. She is the boss. You want foreplay? Demand it. You want the subbie husband to do all the housework? Demand it. You want romantic nights out with dinner and dancing? Yours.
Now of course if the crossdressing is a huge turnoff, there’s nothing to be done about that. But it doesn’t sound like that’s an issue here since he’s been crossdressing since they started having sex.
I’m just trying to say that FemDom GGG is pretty damn good for the female newbie, if she’s open to it. All my posts here were just to say the wife should give it her consideration. It sounds like she has, reading her further posts in the comments, so that’s that then, but as far as fetishes go I think it’s pretty easy to accomodate–but that might be my personal inclinations too, so I’m taking myself with a grain of salt.
And yes, my female superiority comment was a joke. *sigh*
Oh my god, Marrena, like there’s no such thing as switching? 😉
I am most likely actually a switch, but have every intention of having thoroughly subversive sub lessons for a while. Empathy training, yo. I’ll top better later, eventually, with that experience. At least, I hope so. And I do like to make people happy…so if I can receive attention while pleasing someone with my servitude? Bonus.
Also, there are games, and there is real life.
“You want the subbie husband to do all the housework? Demand it.”
No, you discuss it as adults outside of games, and if he doesn’t help, you don’t play games.
We now see why femme-dom appeals to YOU, which is awesome, and to be encouraged, but I think it would help you to look more into some of the emotional boundary/psychological aspects of play vs. effective communication vs. real life aka “non-role” time.
And I’ve just made it apparent how very silly I am, and what some of my motivations are. I generally have a hard time choosing sides, so I usually sit on the fulcrum and pick and choose what I like about each duality. I like to explore both.
It has helped me come to the conclusion, that (at least for me), most things are actually on a continuum, not so much a polarity.
There’s fun and games, there’s real life, and there’s pathology. They can all run together, and it is subjective to each person what one can live with and what one can’t. Society is run by certain agreements in value.
What most of us agree on here is:
the hubby of MHIO, while having what could be a very normal, fun, kinky game preference, has chosen to pursue his likes in a manner that crosses over into our society’s definition of pathological.
What MHIO chooses to do is ultimately up to her, but if it were me?
Kids or no kids; or perhaps ~especially because of~ the kids: I’d get the hell out.
Am I the only one who had to laugh over the term “subspace?”
“Lt. Uhura, open a subspace hailing frequency….”
@217
Wow… That’s not really it at all.
You’re not comprehending the distinction between a “sub” and a “slave” and between a “sub” and a “bottom”. A sub enjoys being submissive in sexual play, a slave enjoys being servile in life. Some people are both, and enjoy nothing more than cleaning a house for someone before being their sexual plaything (yippee). But, if you tell a pure sub “go wash the dishes”, he’s going to blanch. If you tell a pure slave “go down on me”, he’s going to blanch. They’re two very different processes.
Besides, the femdom he wants isn’t really close to what you’re thinking about in terms of femdom. Male humiliation play (cuckolding, small-penis humiliation, sissification, CFNM, ect.) is still fundamentally about the male’s responses and feelings. MHIO’s husband isn’t looking to serve his wife (or any woman), he just has a fantasy for being humiliated.
It’s kind of like how some portion of “subs” I’ve met who like ‘rape fantasies’ are actually into the ‘rape’ of being ‘forced to feel pleasure’. It isn’t about serving the person topping you, it’s about being on the receiving end of whatever you want to feel. It’s not submissive, just being a bottom.
VanillaSwirlCouple, all the things you have said are here in black and white, undeniable. Call me what you like–liar, tea-partier, torch-bearer, it doesn’t negate your previous comments.
Is this discussion about your issue with me, a stranger, or is it about this lady’s letter and her problems with her marriage?
@ 217, I’m far from being a submissive woman but I have absolutely no interest in FemDom. I guess I’m just egalitarian. My husband already helps out with housework and laundry and gives me all the foreplay, and everything else, I need. No need for me to “demand” anything.
I still think the husband here is completely selfish and isn’t interested in accomodating any of his wife’s needs or desires. I wish the Wife well with whatever she chooses to do about it.
Vanilla Swirl Couple;
I think the problem here comes from the fact that the woman was asking for help. She wrote to Dan because she was in a situation that she said was deeply disturbing and deeply troubling, because her husband was engaged in sexually criminal behavior.
And you seem to be bent on showing how this could all be her problem.
To me, it feels like (to a much much lesser degree) going to a rape crisis center, and bringing up the possibility to a woman who goes in for counseling, that she might have asked for it, and ways in which his actions could be excusable. If this were a police station, then that would be the right place to do some of that. If she were trying to publicly get others to condemn him, then it might be right to do. But she’s in a possible marriage ending situation. She’s asking for help. We don’t know her husband’s name so there is no possibility of this ruining his reputation. The most likely scenario is that her husband is a complete dill-hole.
In the context of this situation, what you are doing is wrong. The *right * thing to do is to take the wife’s side and believe her.
I’m bitterly disappointed by the people who can’t agree to disagree with Marrena without questioning the motives behind her advice and twisting her words. Marrena gave what she thought was useful and effective advice to achieve the best possible outcome given the scenario. Feel free to disagree, but don’t accuse her of “projecting” or “condoning” or “rewarding” the man’s behavior. She thought her advice was helpful. If you don’t think it is, you’re entitled to that opinion, but random speculations about her motives are pointless.
The fact that the man is telling his wife about these encounters, and that she hasn’t corroborated that his testimonies are true, tells me that he may be making this up. He very likely wants punishment. So I would disagree with Marrena’s method because he probably wants to be punished, and thus punishing him wouldn’t help stop his behavior. That being said, I acknowledge that Marrena had valid reasoning and good intentions behind her recommendation. Stop giving her so much flack for it, people…
P.S. Vanilla Swirl Couple never made ANY assumptions, they/he/she just explored possibilities. Possibilities aren’t likelihoods, assumptions, or assertions: they’re just demonstrations of what may be true, regardless of what is likely true.
I acknowledge that the wife here is MOST LIKELY correct and in the right. But there are remote possibilities that should, AT THE VERY LEAST, be briefly CONSIDERED before we implicate this man none of us actually know so quickly and on so little evidence.
You know, with all the attacking of MHIO going on, and defending of her husband, no one seemed to notice what MHIO (assuming she is wifeofhusband) mentioned in a couple of her comments: that her husband seems to care not at all for *her* fantasies and turn-ons, and has never asked her what turns her on. Yeah, “didn’t love it, but whatever,” doesn’t seem like the most GGG of statements to make, but given the rest of her letter, I certainly don’t begrudge her a certain degree of bitterness over a situation that has spiraled far beyond her own comfort level. GGG doesn’t mean you *have* to looooove your partner’s kinks as if they were your own; it means you ought to make a good faith effort to indulge something within your comfort zone. I got from the letter that this was once upon a time within MHIO’s comfort zone, but now has progressed far beyond that. A little annoyance regarding the fetish which is the source of her misery is, I think, allowed.
In fact, in the vein of VanillaSwirlCouple (whose comments I admittedly stopped reading around #150ish), I’m going to play my own version of Let’s Pretend: let’s leave aside all the potential for legal problems and assume that MHIO’s problem is a husband who insists that every time they have sex, *his* kinks get catered to and hers are either ignored or only perfunctorily indulged in. I’m pretty sure Dan would give roughly the same advice (and this is assuming MHIO has fairly easy to indulge kinks and is not one of those unfortunate centaur fetishists).
The husband didn’t have sex until he was 28 and married the woman he lost his virginity to. He probably doesn’t have a solid grasp of what a real, adult sexual relationship is like. Part of me wonders if his constant insistence that every woman wants not only to fuck him, but to indulge his kinks for him, and his steps pursuing that, are part of an elaborate (perhaps subconscious) revenge scheme on all the beautiful woman who wouldn’t sleep with him before. “YOU wouldn’t fuck me five years ago, so NOW I’m going to make you suffer by humiliating you!” If it’s not Asperger’s/Autism Spectrum Disorder, it may very well be that (my dad has undiagnosed Asperger’s, and he likes to make racist jokes to minority sales clerks, insisting that they laugh because his jokes are funny and not because they’re afraid of losing their job if they don’t). It’s a power trip, he knows he’s on it, and he needs to get slapped in the face with Reality so he stops.
I’m joining with everyone suggesting divorce, and ASAP. Either it will get him to change or it won’t; and if it won’t, MHIO definitely needs to leave him. Divorce is hard on kids, but I suspect growing up with a dad like MHIO’s husband would be harder.
Thanks to everyone who has given me advice, and really, I am not sure how to proceed from here. It scares me, because I think my husbands thought process is, I like to be humilated, so everyone else must as well. He has told me he knew his coworker would be into it because the way she dressed. The other coworker he contacted he let me know he had called her hoping she would want to humiliate him sexually and I would participate as well. He did not ask me beforehand if I wanted to participate or if I thought it was a good idea to contact her. When I asked what gave him the idea she would be into it, he said he had no idea if she would be, but it couldnt hurt to ask her to humiliate him. When we walk around the mall with our kids Im terrified we will run into a salesgirl he has involved in his sexual foreplay. When I tell him he is going to get into trouble and that hes hurt me, hes tells me all guys are like this and I am a Fucking loser. Its funny because Dan said in his response, he is not being humilated by these women, he is humilating them. I never looked at it that way, and Dan nailed it, because, I do feel humiliated and, it does not sexually gratify me, it makes me feel like shit. My husband and I had a pretty normal marriage for years and I thought my husband was a very kind, thoughtful person. It has been very traumatic to find out who my husband really is and how he really feels about women. And, yes I should have paid attention to some red flags, but I didnt.
wifeofhusband, if you are legit, proceed exactly as Dan said to. Serve divorce papers ASAP. As for the “all men are like this” junk, yes, all 12-year-old boys are like that. Not fully grown men pushing 30. He’s acting like a child who doesn’t know how to behave like an adult, and he needs to grow up.
All men are like this in that they THINK about doing these kinds of things. They go around THINKING “wouldn’t it be great if my coworker were into my kink” or “I’d love it if that salesgirl were cool enough to do this,” etc. The difference is that adult men have a sense of SELF CONTROL and understand when it is, and when it is not, appropriate to act on their urges.
And yes, to a certain degree, almost all men overestimate how attractive they are to women and how many women would be into them. This is why, as Dan has noted, men are usually the ones who make the first move and women are usually the ones who reject their advances. But your husband is displaying a degree of social retardation far beyond what is normal for most men. R Taylor may very well have hit the nail on the head with the speculation that he may have Asperger’s or some Autistic Spectrum Disorder. I dated a man with Asperger’s once, and they do have a tendency to 1) go around doing things that are socially inappropriate and 2) project their feelings and desires onto other people. If he does get counseling or therapy, you may want to explore the possibility that this may be a part of his problem.
By the way, I would highly recommend you look into the National Coalition for Sexual Freedom’s database of Kink Aware Professionals.
http://www.ncsfreedom.org/index.php?opti…
This database will help you find a divorce lawyer, psychologist, counselor, therapist, or any other person you need to help you with your situation. That way, they’ll address the REAL issue (his inappropriate behavior) instead of attacking the fetish itself.
Avast,
It is an awkward, squeamish sounding word, isn’t it?
Can you suggest a prettier one? I’m all ears.
On a completely different subject, I do feel like Uhura with the new Bluetooth thingie we’re all s’posed to be wearing these days…
Xiao,
I find your comments well-thought.
Please remember bitter disappointment is a choice, however.
And thanks for the link!
Any dude who calls you a ‘fucking loser’ is not worth being married to.
@205: “Assumptions in [Joon’s] own recent posts that are not in [MHIO’s original] letter include:
– The couple agreed to be exclusive.”
HeLLO?! They’re MARRIED! And that means monogamy, unless one or both spouses out-and-out LIED when they vowed to “forsake all others.” (Sorry, but a marriage contract is not “implied,” as you so erroneously stated; it is an explicit, LEGAL contract. Were this not so, adultery — a breach of that explicit contract — would not be legal grounds for divorce!)
To all the marrieds in here who entertain outside sex partners by mutual consent, I have to ask: Why get married at all? Living together, having children together, buying property together all without benefit of wedlock have in recent decades been all but totally destigmatized. Equally socially accepted is the notion that unmarried folks can have as much of whatever kind of consenting-adults sex they desire, with as many partners as they desire. So why get married if monogamy is something you can’t (or simply don’t wish to) commit to?
Setting aside all other issues here, I have a real problem with people making promises they have NO INTENTION of keeping/becoming party to legal contracts they have EVERY INTENTION of violating. The other party — typically both honorable and oblivious — ends up paying all the emotional and legal freight, as wifetohusband’s increasingly incoherent posts amply demonstrate.
TANSTAAFL, bay-bee.
@219: “Subspace” is an extremely common Term Of Art amongst BDSM’ers, and a very useful one it is. But I’ve gotta admit that when I first heard it some 30 years ago my fevered brain leaped right to Trek, too.
(It’s life, Jim, but not as we know it, not as we know it, not as we know it.)
Can we get Mistress Matisse’s comments on MHIO?
Marrena, avoid bad boys like this one. He’s either taking huge risks or lying about them, which is serious stuff. Either way, you don’t want to be trying to straighten his shit out. Either YOU end up in court, or you throw him out after way too much frustration, anger, humiliation and lost confidence. Seen it happen. Really not pretty.
@232
I dunno about you, but when I got married, we wrote our own vows, and “forsake all others” never made it, and yet our marriage license is just as valid. Then again, we were poly going in and still poly.
Why get married? Are you just being ignorant of the multitude of rights bestowed upon a married couple (i.e. why gays want to have that same right)?
Perhaps MIHO’s husband has a use for the “half-empty bottles of pubic-hair-befrazzled lube”?
Perhaps MIHO’s husband has a use for the “half-empty bottles of pubic-hair-befrazzled lube”?
Hey, Wife of Husband
How about this… Channel the anger you have at him and this situation into humiliating him about his small penis and sissy panties.
That way, you get to blow off some steam and he gets his needs met and won’t have to be a creep all over the place
win. win. win.
@217
“About the GGG thing–yes, if a woman has strong submissive tendencies, she’s never going to enjoy domming. But aside from those women–your average woman I think would absolutely enjoy FemDom, because FemDom is all about the woman getting exactly what she wants. Everything. She is the boss. You want foreplay? Demand it. You want the subbie husband to do all the housework? Demand it. You want romantic nights out with dinner and dancing? Yours.”
Everything she wants…except a partner.
🙁