A neighbor and friend sent me this email earlier today about the marriage equality debate that her youngest son—Gus, age five—got into at school today:
The kids were discussing whether boys can marry boys and girls can marry girls. The kids were saying that they can’t. Gus said, “Boys can marry boys. Dan and Terry are married.”
That email reminded me of this Michael Kinsley piece in Time back in 2007…
Kids grow up today with gay friends, gay parents, gay parents of friends and gay friends of parents. If only blacks and whites were as thoroughly mixed together in society as gays and straights are. Kids are also exposed constantly to an entertainment culture in which gays are not merely accepted but in some ways dominant. You rarely see a reality show without a gay cast member, while Rosie O’Donnell is a coveted free agent and Ellen DeGeneres is America’s sweetheart. The notion that gays must be segregated out of the military for the sake of our national security must strike Americans younger than, say, 40 as simply weird, just as we of the previous generation find the rules of racial segregation weird. (O.K., run that by me again: they needed separate drinking fountains because … why?)
Kinsley was writing about gays in the military, obviously, but his point applies to marriage equality. For Gus—for all the kids in our orbit—Terry and I are gay parents of a friend and gay friends of his parents. Gus thinks that boys can marry boys because to him DJ’s parents’ relationship is indistinguishable from that of his own parents—right down to the rings on our fingers. His parents are married, DJ’s parents are married. When Gus inevitably learns that there are people out there who will applaud wildly when, say, a state legislature votes to prevent boys form marrying boys, Gus will think that’s weird. Gus will find the whole notion that marriage must be protected from gays weird. (O.K., run that by me again: DJ’s parents can’t be married because… why?) But Gus is a little unclear on one aspect of marriage equality…
When asked if girls could marry girls, Gus said, “Nope. They can’t marry.”
42- Germans specifically chose Jewish bankers to negotiate the Paris treaty after the World War 1. Hence, the leaders of Germany knew they could blame a bad settlement on the Jews. Low and behold the treaty becomes a punitive document against Germany, and the Jews are evil.
That was the modern reason why Hitler and the anti-semites in Europe hated Jews during the 20’s, 30’s, and 40’s. They considered them backstabbers, when in truth it was the Kaiser who knifed them.
50- I think if LC had gay kids she would disown them or be satisfied with their suicide. Just look at Alan Keyes. Now there’s a strong, black christian role model.
And you catholics with your Nazi youth Pope RATszinger who conspires with child molestors….FUCK YOU! I’ll see you in hell RATszinger.
I thought it more Hindenburg that did the backstabbing, but Wilhelm certainly gave the knife to Hindenburg to point it where he pleased. Still, the Kaiser’s December 1919 telegram to General Mackensen was certainly telling of his anti-Semitic sentiments. It even foreshadows the Final Solution.
It’s heartening to look at stories like this that show exactly why, as long as we keep pushing, we will win in the end and the hatemongers will lose.
And don’t be fooled by the rhetoric. Right-wingers and pseudo-Christian nutjobs (Loveschild) have zero problem with indoctrinating your children into hate. But we don’t even have to do any indoctrinating of our own; tolerance being the “default” position when the kids grow up seeing it practiced, all we have to do is counter the hate brigade’s attempts and let the kids work it out for themselves.
Loveschild, why is it okay for Christians to try to indoctrinate children?
To add, Loveschild,
Should straight Christian children from straight Christian parents be the only ones allowed voice their opinions and speak about their lives in school? Silence the Jews, Muslims, atheists, gays, etc?
If you don’t want to have your children exposed to any ideas other than the hate you teach, home school them. You don’t have a right to silence people with whom you disagree.
My partner and I have been specifically tasked with the “corruption” of our soon to be 1 year old niece when she is old enough to start asking questions. Her straight but not narrow parents don’t want to grow up ignorant (like [FUCK YOU!] LC). It is going to be our pleasure to be her resource for all things freaky (after she learns to walk and stops shitting her pants that is…)
Thank you, Dan. It is sometimes difficult in the US to keep positive about this issue, especially when the closed-minded and bigoted are all around us – and especially when the closed-minded and bigoted will resort to the most intellectually dishonest tactics. I’m looking at you, LC – trying to divert attention with the whole “insistence of people like him in using kids to bring such topics into schools” part. You seem fairly articulate and intelligent, so I have to assume that you’re intentionally drawing the wrong conclusion in order to sway undecided readers (if there are any on this blog). Others have spelled it out for you, but let me try again: these are kids, reflecting on what they see around them, discussing it amongst themselves, and drawing their own conclusions – no adults involved. Gus, with a child’s instinct for and understanding of fairness, advocates marriage equality. To him it’s simple and obvious – it should be simple and obvious to everyone.
Uriel-238 @47 has it right – all children are indoctrinated at a young age, sometimes intentionally by an organization like a church, sometimes intentionally by parents who seek to inculcate certain ideas and values, sometimes unintentionally by picking up their parents’ values and ideas. I know that my 6 month old son is already picking up things from me and my wife, some of which I will probably wish he didn’t get. I hope that one thing he does pick up from us is tolerance, respect, and love for others.
The answer, in my opinion, is critical thinking skills. I want my son to be able to examine the stuff I’m giving him (good and bad) and draw rational conclusions about it. I want him to be confident enough in his conclusions to explain and support them, even (especially?) if he disagrees with me. I’m not going to rely on the public school system to teach him these skills because it doesn’t do a very good job (based on my experience teaching writing to university freshman).
Awww, sweet. When I was little, two of my friends had lesbian moms but no one I knew had gay dads, so I was the opposite way!
My best friend has a seven-year-old daughter who got into one of these debates at school. She responded by naming the various jurisdictions (Massachusetts, Iowa, etc.) in which boys can marry boys and girls can marry girls. She knew this information because her Daddy (my friend) helped her look it up on the internet.
Yep, he’s raising a nerd. A beautiful, gay-friendly nerd.
Aw, 61 warmed my heart!
My niece, who has grown up knowing me and my partner, asked her mom about her straight aunt: “So why doesn’t Aunt F. have a girlfriend?” Dan, your whole parenting story has been inspiring to me (I have 2 kids with my partner). Thanks for sharing.
Loveschild is simply lashing out because this post makes her realise that when her kids grow up they’ll break out of her brainwashing and despise her as a stupid old bigot
You’re going to be a very lonely old biddy, LC, and that makes me smile 🙂
Who names their kid “Gus”? Short for “Gustav”? Or was he named after Mercury astronaut Gus Grissom?
Gus is a cute name and he sounds completely adorable. The name reminds me of the roly poly dude who Cinderella rescued from the mouse trap so Lucifer the cat couldn’t get him. He became friends with Jaq and Cinderella dresses him in a shirt that is too small. Gus-Gus Aaawwwwww
Bibbidi-bobbidi-boo, LC’s and idiot too!
Gus is also short for Augustus, or, as in the case of Captain Grissom, Virgil Ivan.
I don’t know why you guys are all trying to placate Loveschild with your “reason” and “logic”…I for one am totally trying to indoctrinate and brainwash LC’s children!! Not only do I want her children to ACCEPT gays…I want them to BE gay (we need more people to be deviant with, duh!!). The good news is, it’s working! More and more out gays every year, and hundreds of times that number straights who have learned to love gays and all our deviant behavior.
You should know, LC, that your strategy of sheltering your children from our gay recruitment squads is only going to help for so long… if you lock your children in a basement until age 18, we’ll find them when they leave home…even if you succeed in turning your children into carbon copies of yourself and your beliefs (which rarely works – and, I’m given to understand, works LESS effectively the harder you try at it), what about their children?? The sad fact is, you’re not going to be alive forever, LC…it’s only a matter of time before we recruit YOUR VERY PROGENY into our sexually deviant ranks.
But I doubt it will take generations…our brainwashing is obviously already working, since you spend hours a day reading our promotional literature here on SLOG, and have developed the sort of obsession that marks your ever-nearer indoctrination into our ranks. We are everywhere and there is no escaping.
I think I speak for all gays, LC, when I say: I can’t wait to have gay sex with your children. Anonymous troll, it’s safe to say I’m having gay sex with your children even as I type this.
@ 68
I don’t need to lock my kids in the basement, we’ve already talked to two of them who are of appropriate age about what can the homosexual lifestyle leads to. There are no shortage of examples of what’s the end game behind all the flashy nuance of the gay life that people like dan like to sell to people.
http://www.associatedcontent.com/article…
That young woman’s story is sadly all too common in those that chose that lifestyle. All I need to do is point to it, teach my kids the choices that lead to life, happiness, family and hope that once they grow up they chose the life affirming path and not the one of self-destruction.
@44- A rogue like Han Solo is definitely Poly.
I live in a bit of a bubble, as my kid goes to one of the North Seattle Alternative Schools. It’s pretty much a homophobia-free zone.
@69 *snicker*
the last time i heard these tired old saws was at the GOP national convention. ‘lifestyle’, eh? *yawn* yeah, like being born female, or Chinese, or Jewish is a ‘lifestyle’ or a ‘choice’.
I’d rather think my kids (or parents, or friends) were engaging in some mutually pleasurable buttfucking (or carpet munching) than that they were spewing any of the absolute santorum that comes out of your mouth.
for one thing, the buttfucking/carpet munching would be done in private – as it should be. by contrast, the hatred and fear you spew is apparently acceptable to you and yours in any public forum. how tasteless.
teach your kids whatever you want. we’ll pity them from a distance. (then they’ll go off to college and develop minds of their own.) time marches on, and your bigotry will get left in the dust. you’ve already lost.
I just realized something. LC doesn’t know any gays/lesbians. Or at least, none that are out to her. Because if she did, she wouldn’t post something as completely ridiculous as that article.
These days the homosexual lifestyle can lead to….uh….I’m not coming up with anything special.
Screwing men?
One gay lifestyle led to the fastest girl at getting ready to go out. No makeup, no purses to pack; she just jumped into her trousers and boots and was off. Had pics of cute naked girls all over her apartment enough to make a fraternity ashamed. She liked penes as much as vulvae, too. The lifestyle wasn’t so much about her sexuality as her character.
Another one involved huge collections of show scores. If I asked to hear Mikado, he’d ask to specify cast, version and performance (uh, your favorite?). That couple also had an awesome hot-tub in their backyard that was something between a garden and a jungle. I was sure pumas lurked in the shadows. I don’t know for sure, but I understand comfy hot-tubs are a big part of the gay lifestyle.
Loveschild, you appear to be so far beyond reason and driven by fear that I pity you. You must be paralyzed in terror for walking the promenades of Pandemonium every night.
68.
Fixed.
Otherwise, brilliant post.
Uriel-238, I want to meet YOUR gays…none of mine have hot tubs!
As to your previous comment, I was raised to believe all kinds of stuff that I no longer hold to. It took longer for me to come around, definitely, since it was ingrained at such a young age, but I did come around. Anyone who chooses to think for themselves will at some point question the basis for their assumed beliefs, and so there is hope even for those “oldies” like me!
Dan, sweet story. Not trying to be Debbie Downer here, but an apt comparison would be to look at the interracial marriage bans in many states. While Federal Law nullified it decades earlier, it was not until 2001 that Alabama removed it’s interracial marriage prohibition and school segregation laws from our lovely Constitution of 1901. And even then it was only by a narrow margin*. :/
Uriel, I agree with most of what you say but my Jesuit Education requires me to offer one slight correction. The motto (unofficial, there is no official) of The Society of Jesus is Ad Maiorem Dei Gloriam. For the Greater Glory of God. Although I prefer my college’s motto: In Colle Exaltatus Fons Sapientae. A spring of wisdom is he who was lifted up on the hill. Someone obviously had a sense of humor as the school was named Spring Hill. LOL.
*although the fact that it was purely symbolic may have had something to do with it, as was the arguement made by some that if you guaranteed equal education for all then rich districts would be forced to subsidize poor.
re the link @69 – Apparently homosexuality causes diabetes, which can kill you if you don’t keep it under control.
Seriously though – hospitalized TWICE after going into diabetic comas? That’s tragic.
Dan: Awww, that’s very sweet.
Others: In this case, I don’t think Dan is being ageist. (Though maybe there’s a touch of that in the photos that are chosen to run here sometimes..) It is simply a matter of time. Most folks..45 or so, or under, that I personally know (I’m 39), are pro gay marriage/for marriage equality. The few people I know who are against it are older than that. Threatned by change. Etc.
Once you know somebody, personally, who’s gay, it’s harder to say – you personally, gay dude/chick, don’t deserve the same rights as me, straight person. Since more people are out now than ever before, more people know, that they know, a gay person/gay people. Until they know someone, it’s just an abstract mental image of two guys having buttsex in a back alley & skipping off to church to get married in their assless chaps. ’cause surely that’s how it would come down.
All folks who have children & teach them what they believe to be true are guilty of “indoctrination”. I bet if Dan’s views happened to align w/ yours, LC, it would cease to be indoctrination/brainwashing & magically become good parenting. From a distance, Dan & Terry sound like good parents.
LC – do you have a job? Seriously. It seems like all you live to do is ferret out the gay marriage posts & spew all over them. How do you get by? Dan gets paid to write his views here. Do you secretly hope to change his mind? Or the mind of anyone here? Do you plague other kinda liberal cities, or just Seattle?
Ah well. Happy to read this heartwarming moment from real life. Not a parent, but this made me smile.
I personally love the fact that although it’s wrong for a kid to just express what he sees around him, it is perfectly acceptable for an elementary schooler to chase a class mate around recess yelling that she’s going to hell just because she doesn’t believe in god. Oh, but wait, in the South that’s just the way that works. Sorry, I forgot.