Is it in my head or is it really out there in the world: I have noticed that many white children have the amazing honor of calling their parent by his/her first name. I’ve certainly never seen this sort of thing in black African homes and can’t recall it happening in black American ones. I bring this up because I have a white American niece who is in the habit of calling me by my first name. But I’m not her friend or anywhere near her age. I’m something distant and ineffable, something her mind cannot grasp and handle: I’m her uncle. And she should call me that because I’m this distant and cloudy thing. Her mind is too fuzzy, thoughts too fluid to appreciate the substance of my actual name. Children must not say my first name. It’s rude and spooky.
Charles Mudede—who writes about film, books, music, and his life in Rhodesia, Zimbabwe, the USA, and the UK for The Stranger—was born near a steel plant in Kwe Kwe, Zimbabwe. He has no memory... More by Charles Mudede
“Call me sir, goddammit!”
My name is my name http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=itCPGm2W1…
I don’t know many white (or non-white) children who call their parents by their first name, but aunts and uncles? Yes. Usually with the title Uncle or Aunt first, but sometimes not.
If it bugs you so much, ask her to call you Lord Supreme Uncle or whatever it is that you think her feeble brain can handle.
I don’t think it’s racial. It’s generational.
I call my aunts and uncles Aunt Diane and Uncle Bill, etc, but I call my mom Mom and my dad Dad. I don’t see anything wrong with adding the first name to their title… especially when you’re at a big family event with several aunts and uncles.
Until I was 5, I called my mom by her first name. Still do now, to get her attention. Always talking over me like whatever she’s got to say is more important that what I’ve got to say.
Yeah, kids ought to call all adults Mr or Ms or Mrs, but they only do that at school now. I have no idea how that change came about, although I do recall some of my friends’ parents saying I could call them by their first names in the 80s. (It seemed weird and wrong, so I didn’t.)
@3 Good idea. From here on out, if I refer to Charles, I will refer to him only as Lord Supreme Uncle.
Stepkids often call their Stepparents by their 1st names.
Also, you like “Uncle Mudede”?
That’s life in a theoretically egalitarian society that no longer believes in the evil eye and the tetragrammaton.
Yeah, I’ve never heard any kids call their parents by their first names, but Aunt Sara or Uncle Ralph or whatever is the norm.
What year is this????
@7- My daughter’s teachers (and principle) all go by their first names. Sir and Ma’am are for strangers. Once someone introduces themselves, it’s first name time.
I’m “dad” now, but there was about a year or so when she was in preschool she called me by my first name. It didn’t bother me, it’s what everyone calls me, why not my kid?
I’m white (although my husband is Persian) and if my kids called me by my first name I’d probably smack ’em. And they call ALL adults Mr. or Mrs. Xyz unless and until that person asks them to call them otherwise. Aunts and Uncles get called Aunt or Uncle Xyz. I agree that it’s rude for kids to call adults by their first name unless asked to do so. I think it would be equally rude for me to call an elderly person anything other than Ma’am/Sir/Mr./Mrs. Xyz until they ask me to do otherwise.
Weird phenomenon – I’ve never seen it although we’re not in Seattle but a more rural hick-ville suburbanish area. What I’ve seen that seems super weird is how many of the kids friends (high school age) call their teachers by JUST their last name, no Mr. Or Mrs. in front of it.
how long have you been in the US, charles? i don’t know a single person, white or not, who calls an aunt or uncle anything other than aunt [first name] or just [first name], aside from any pet names or nicknames. that’s pretty typical.
Kids = call parents Mom & Dad. Mother & Father rarely in formal settings that call for it–wedding toasts, maybe. Funeral speeches. Grandparents = kids call them some variant on grandma and grandpa. Great grand and beyond = same as grandparents. Everyone else: first name.
I grew up with both Hungarian ethnic households as well as your standard American ones, and a wide array of Puerto Rican, Dominican, a couple Haitian and Jamaican, and a couple Polish. That was the norm in all of them.
How did it work when you were growing up in Africa? I’m wondering if its not so much generational as just geography and culture. Like–how do the Japanese handle this? etc.
Lord Supreme Uncle is here to save us from the cultural degeneracy that is causing the downfall of our society! Is he trying to save the Episcopal Church from gay marriage and lady priests too?
Actually, Charles, in white culture the balance of power is totally reversed. Parents use formal titles with their precious children (e.g., Lord, Lady, Mr., Mrs., Sir, Esquire, etc), and children using their parents’ first names, or sometimes just “hey you!”
This post is so ridiculous I’m not even going to bother responding to it. Except to give a thumbup to Keekee, who doesn’t really seem to have any connection to reality about 99% of the time, yet occasionally nails it.
@14 that was normal in my schools as well from about junior high onwards, for teacher’s names. It was like that in school too. I always just figured everyone did it because it was just simpler–even teachers would do it. Smith would refer to Jones as Jones and Jones would refer to MacKenzie as MacKenzie and so on.
My view: nieces and nephews should use “Aunt Julie”, hypothetical future children should use “mom”.
It gets less clear for me with the kids of friends. I absolutely do not want to be called “Mrs. Last Name” – that is just ridiculous to me (even though that’s what I called my parents’ friends when I was little). Some of my closest friends have been prompting their kids to call me Aunt Julie, which I think is fine. One friend uses “Miss Julie”. I personally think that just “Julie” would be okay, but I do have this nagging feeling that kids should maybe not call adults by first names only.
I’ve always been slightly jealous of my Indian friends, where everyone is just called Auntie and Uncle. It just seems so easy and practical…
Name snobs are boring, but I am interested to see how Will links this the tunnel.
@13, my nephew did that to my sister for a while when he was 3-5 y.o. It was pretty effing adorable, like everything he does. He is the only child I have ever witness actually call a parent by his/her first name.
I’m surprised more of you don’t know people who do this. I don’t know if race has anything to do with it but I know 3 adults who call their parents by their first names. And, yes, it is always creepy when I hear it. It’s even creepy in movies like Cyrus when you know they are just actors.
Being a queer parent makes it pretty easy for your kids get in the habit of calling you by you first name, which doesn’t bother me anyway. It doesn’t take long for “Mommy Kate” and “Mommy Chaya” to turn into “Kate” and “Chaya”. I think it is mainly for brevity’s sake.
What I want to know is how can I go from being on a first name basis with my sons 10 year old friends to being referred to as mister. The only parents I ever called by their first names were usually in the process of passing a joint my way. I blame the parents because they refer to me by the first name so the kids follow suit.
Charles, your asshole is showing. Consider this:
Titles are a way of showing respect to people you/a kid are/is unfamiliar with. For people you/a kid are/is familiar with, respect should be shown through actions, and titles are irrelevant.
I’ve known a handful of adults (and kids, even decades ago) who called their parent (always only one in the picture) by their first name. They always seemed to have a strained (to put it politely in some cases) relationship with that parent, too, and IIRC they were all pretty close in age to that parent (21 years or less). Interesting to think about.
@ dwight, guess it depends on the school. I’ve dealt with three different ones with my kids and there wasn’t any first-name basis with the teachers there. But they’re young; we’ll see what high school is like.
How children address adults is mainly a measure of fear. Some would argue that it is a matter of respect, but I call bullshit on that. Ultimate respect is that held between equals. I call my mother by her first name because I see her as an equal. I address superiors at work by titles because I fear them (to a degree). As for strangers, I generally dislike referring to them by first name, but will do it on occasion to show that I think of them as equals and therefore respect them.
Plus! If a child knows your first name, he or she can cast spells upon you to control your mind! Never let a child know your first name! In fact, try to avoid being in the same room with a child, lest someone else address you by your first name in that child’s hearing!
Also, avoid eye contact, since children are able to peer into your head and steal your soul aieeeeeeeeeeeeee!
Methinks, Mr. M., that you could us a colorectal polectomy.
What is common among my childrens’ friends is to call adults “Mr.” or “Ms.” (not Mrs.) followed by their first name (e.g. Mr. Rob and Ms. Laura). I don’t know who came up with this idea but it is the worst. I am totally fine with kids calling me by my first name or by “Mr. Last Name”, but “Mr. Rob” is just bizarre to me and I can’t bring myself to tell my kids to address their friends’ parents in this way. And yes, I know there are a lot of quotation marks in this post.
I have friends in the San Juan islands who call their parents by their first name (and yeah, we’re all white I think). I only use my own parents’ first names when I’m referring to them in 3rd person. I never address my aunts and uncles with a title. I hear people do that and it sounds theatrical to me.
Not just White people. I’m from El Salvador, and we call all family by their first name (except our parents). So when I speak to my “tio”, I call him Mauricio. Or my aunt, by her first name (in some cases, first and middle name, like Rosa Maria). The matriarch of our family, who died at the age of 96, was never called by her given name, rather the nickname Pacita. Her real name was Paz, her nickname literally meant “little peace”. But it was never taken as an insult or a sign of disrespect.
When I moved to the U.S., I thought Bart Simpson calling his father “Homer” was funny! You’d never have that happen in El Salvador (at least the people I know).
It’s on you to set her straight to polite crap. Not all parents and other institutions teach all polite practices. So you would have to tell her the sign of respect.
However it seems more prudent and beneficial if you just become her friend, then you guys can use first names. (And you get a friend!)
I have noticed that most Marxist, atheist, African intellectuals see no contradiction in pontificating how racism, ignorance and violence are a curse to mankind while at the same time demanding the rest of the world conform to their narrow-minded ethnocentric bigotries.
Most, of course, but not all.
In my white family we would have been in big trouble for calling our parents by their first names! Now my sisters’ kids call their parents Mom and Dad, no exceptions.
My nieces & nephews just call me by my first name, and I’m totally fine with that. I think it’s a proximity thing. I had to use a title with my Aunts & Uncles, but I only saw them two or three times a year. We are closer than my parents’ generation was, so I like the familiarity.
@16
Asian cultures generally have a deeply-rooted respect for elders. Typically, the kids aren’t even supposed to speak to adults unless addressed by one.
And when they are addressed they have to speak formally to adults which just means no slang or shortcuts. e.g. ‘arigatou’ and ‘arigatou gozaimashita’ both mean thank you, the latter is just more respectful.
@31 I first encountered the Miss/Mrs/Ms/Mr + first name when working with preschool age children. The Early Child Educators I know were taught to refer to themselves that way. I don’t understand why, but it is very common where I live, grates on the nerves though.
My four-year old daughter usually calls me “Daddy,” but every once in a while she uses my first name. She started doing it as soon as she realized I had a name other than “Daddy.” I gently dissuade her because I don’t want her calling me that regularly, but my ability to be an effective authority figure is not undermined by an occasional use of my actual first name.
The only people who should have titles with last name (Mr/Mrs/Ms) are teachers and other formal authority figures. Adult neighbors, just like aunts and uncles, are called by their first names. Yet the adults on the street are all generally heeded when they say something to the kids on the street whether or not the kids are their own. It’s good modeling and consistent rules that produce good behavior, not titles.
Funny how quick the Marxists turn reactionary.
Happy Valentine’s Day Charles,
I agree with you. I find it odd that children heck even adults address their immediate adult family members with just their first name. My adult niece addresses me as Uncle just as I addressed my late Aunt. Mom & Dad are always Mom & Dad as well. I couldn’t imagine calling them anything else. But, I don’t think it is cultural or racial. I have rarely heard children addressing adults w/o formal or informal titles. However, that is just my experience.
I don’t know anyone of any colour who calls their parents by their first names. I’ve only seen children address their parents like this in movies featuring out-of-control bratty kid characters.
I am told that there are children who call their parents by their first names, but I’ve only ever met one. I’m white and from the Northeast; we always called aunts and uncles “Aunt [first name]” and “Uncle [first name]”. (It’s never *just* “Aunt” or “Uncle” in American English.) Other adults were “Mr/Mrs [last name]”. I was sometimes told to call particular adults by their first names only when I was a kid; it always made me uncomfortable. This has changed fast, though. Kids who are teens now are much more used to using first names for adults.
There are indeed differences in race and region. I can’t imagine black or Southern kids dropping the “Aunt” or “Uncle”; I’ve known black Northeasterners and white and black Southerners who teach their kids to call adult family friends “Mr [first name]” and “Ms [first name]”, or “Sir” and “Ma’am” for strangers. To a white person who’s not from the South, this lands somewhere between charming and creepy.
You’ve lived in Seattle how many years and claim that this is a surprise? And then are stupid enough to claim it’s racial?
In Seattle, in this day and age, most kids call most adults by their first name.
“Have you ever noticed that black people are soooo sensitive about race?”
-David Cross
Confidential to white people: when I say that “Mr/Ms [first name]” seems “somewhere between charming and creepy” to white people, I’m making an observation about the attitudes towards this that I’ve observed; for example, there are some comments in this vein in this thread. You should be aware, however, that “I can’t stand when kids do that, it’s weird” about this one may be taken as a negative comment about African-American English and culture– that is, racist.
In addition, kids who have been taught this shouldn’t be told to do otherwise. When kids are being polite to adults in the way that their family and community has taught them, think and/or say “lovely manners” and then drop it.
@40 FTW.
@43- What weirds me out is that that’s how slaves addressed owners.
I don’t like it when people use my given name without permission. I’m “Ms. Lastname” to anyone who doesn’t know me, not that they ever learned that. If you don’t want your niece to call you by your given name (or put spiders in your car or go through your wallet) then tell her parents and have them put a stop to it. If the parents don’t intervene, then correct her yourself.
It’s a side effect of something good: Our society becoming more egalitarian. I try to remember that when some stranger making a sales call forgets her manners.
I’m white and almost 40 and I’ve called my parents by their first names all my life. It started when my mother referred to my father by his name to me; she felt self-conscious calling him anything else. So that’s what I learned to call them, and my younger siblings followed suit. There’s never been a problem with respect in our family and we all still get along great.
I have two kids now, and I’d be happy if they called me by my name, but they don’t.
@ 43 You are right. This is regional. I’m also from the Northeast (and my ancestors were all from Europe).
Guys, I think we need to make a distinction here. Calling/not calling someone by the first name isn’t respectful or disrespectful. It’s FAMILIAR. It’s like standing too close to someone or talking about personal matters. It is something that friends are permitted to do after a reasonable time of acquaintance (numbers will vary by specific people involved).
Nice way to embrace patriarchalism, Charles. But, yeah, who cares except you and a bunch of people reinforcing some cultural notation of titles and stature? Advice: you could just be direct with either your niece or her parents and tell them how you’d like to be addressed.
Omg, get over yourself. Are you really that insecure that you need to be addressed by a title at all times?
I get this, Charles. I feel weird about kids calling me by my first name, however, I accept it as common social practice. My teenage kids call me by my first name occassionally, but more to get my attention in a room full of “moms”. Their friends call me by my first name if they know me well. But when a strange kid calls me by my firsty, no, I don’t like that. Miss P is my nickname of choice for the young ones.
I was always taught to refer to people in the way they introduced themselves, and when that might be debatable, to lean toward formality. So, if someone says, “I’m Karen,” I’ll refer to her as Karen, regardless of how well I know her or whether or not I know her last name. However, if she says, “I’m Karen Smith,” I would refer to her as Ms. Smith (or Mrs. if I know she’s married) until either she indicates otherwise or we become close enough that I can assume that we’re on a first name basis.
As for my relatives, I’ve always called my parents Mom and Dad, and my aunts and uncles Uncle John, Aunt Mary, etc. However, I never thought of those as formal titles, but rather as terms of affection; I refer to Aunt Colleen that way because she’s not just any Colleen, she’s a Colleen with whom I share a special bond. Same with my parents; they are Mom and Dad because there’s something nice about referring to only one person in the entire world that way.
Hey Charles, if you continue to be quite so confused and disturbed by the oddities of American life, why not spend some time back in the land of your upbringing, with a white wife and biracial child and see how well you cope?
Also, your comments about kids and their minds makes me wonder if you’ve actually paid attention to the one you’re raising, or any others at all.
Charles, you don’t specify whether she is calling you “Charles” or “Uncle Charles.” The latter is considered formal and acceptable in all situations.
If she is a little kid, then the former means you are not considered a full member of the girl’s family because you are different (to the girl’s mind). If she is older, then she probably considers you an outsider and therefore at a lower social level than her other aunts and uncles.
Rude and spooky? But you just said it wasn’t spooky.
My sister and I learned early that if we wanted our mother’s attention in a crowded place, we needed to call her by name. Perhaps because she is partially deaf to begin with, or perhaps because “mom” is a short, round word and hard to distinguish among other noises.
Then, at a certain age, my mother told us to call her by name when we were in public anyway; she was too young to have grown children.
But really, Charles? Get over yourself. Also, chidlren will call you by the identifier their parents use. So if you want your niece to call you “uncle chuck”, mention it to their parents. Then, when they talk to their kids, they’ll have the chance to say, “we’re going over to pompous uncle Charles’ house today. Be sure to grovel at uncle Chuck’s feet before entering his abode, you fuzzy-brained morons.”
@39, my eldest daughter did that, too. I told her I worked hard for the title of ‘mommy’, and I intend to keep it.
The best way to convince a person to do something is to ask them nicely. You could tell your niece that you know you are weird, but would she please call you ‘Uncle Charles’ or something that you feel suits you better. Look at the bigger picture; she is a kid- if you begin taking offense now to things like this, by the time she is a teenager, you will have lit yourself on fire.
The best way to convince a person to do something is to ask them nicely. You could tell your niece that you know you are weird, but would she please call you ‘Uncle Charles’ or something that you feel suits you better. Look at the bigger picture; she is a kid- if you begin taking offense now to things like this, by the time she is a teenager, you will have lit yourself on fire.
I feel sorry for your niece. She probably thinks you guys are closer than you actually are. And this reinforces my feeling of never wanting to talk to you–too scary, because who knows what you would find to pick apart or take offense at.
I call all my aunts and uncles by their title (Aunt/Uncle) followed by their first name, as in Uncle Mike. That’s what my parents always called them when I was growing up, so it seems totally normal to me.
Now my parents I call mom & dad, or some variation thereof. The only time I call them by their given names is if we’re somewhere public and they can’t really hear me, calling “Steven” or “Cherilyn” gets their attention easier than “mom” or “dad”. I also called my dad “Steven” when I was really, really, REALLY mad at him; it would just piss him off further(which was the point…).
I do know one friend who calls her parents by their first names, but I think they encouraged it or something like that.
Can’t generalize about white folks any more than you can about any other folks. Just because you heard a few white people do it doesn’t make it a “white thing.”
That said- I call my parents by their first names. When I was growing up, we were a foster family, and so there were always a LOT of kids around. Many of them had ongoing (and court ordered) relationships with their biological parents as well, so they were encouraged to call my parents (their foster parents) by their first names. Why not? But then, with everyone else doing it, the “bio-syblings” and I did it too. And so what. Sometimes there are reasons.
And, um, a lot of families have never had titles for aunts and uncles. If you “join” a new family (through marriage, adoption, other means) you really can’t come in with a title. You want to fit in, you let them call you the same way they call their other uncles…
My white son addresses his father by his first name, yet addresses me as “Mom.” My black niece and nephew address me as “Auntie ________” and my Japanese sister addresses me as “Onee-san.” My Japanese nephew is too young to address me yet, but I’m guessing I’ll be “Obasan.”
Just call me Carol of the Benetton Bunch.
I should add that my son is American, but I am not, which might be why he does not address me by my first name.
You know what’s funny, and possibly rather telling about this choice in how to ones elders?
My thirteen year old daughter *only* calls me by my first name when she’s very upset or angry at me. It’s a way to bring me down to her power level, and emphasize her own status when she needs to.
The other 90% of the time I’m just “Mom”.
I am 32, white, grew up in a rural area south of DC. My parents were middle-class white liberals, and my godmother/surrogate grandmother/manners enforcer was upper class black.
I’m always startled when I hear kids call any adult by their first name. I dislike it in the same way that I dislike the fact that all TV shows are judged by their popularity among 18-32 year olds. It feels like it’s evidence that our culture is dismissive of the elderly.
Growing up, adults were always Mister and Miz Last Name. If I had a very close relationship with them, then they would be honored with the title of Mister or Miz First Name (Now, my friends are all having children. When those little ones start to talk and they call me Miz First Name, it makes me feel all warm and special, because it means they see me as an honorary aunt).
As an adult, of course I call coworkers by their first names. But in social situations, I am uncomfortable using first-names-only with people who are two generations older than me. For example, I volunteer with an organization that serves seniors, and they always get a Mr. or Miz unless they tell me otherwise.
My parents & godmother hammered this home to me because of the historic power dynamic in the South. Regardless of relative age, white women would call their black maids First Name Only, while the maids had to call their employers Mrs. Last Name. It was verbal proof that they weren’t equal. So, to show that you are not one of THOSE white people, you use a prefix when addressing your elders.
I’m Chinese and we have a title for every person in the family tree – Mom’s mom, Dad’s mom, Dad’s younger brother, Mom’s oldest sister, Mom’s third youngest sister, Dad’s younger brother’s wife… all covered! Come to think of it, I don’t think I have ever said my relatives’ given names in front of them.
Diary of an unborn child
September 19:
Today my life began. My parents do not know it yet, but it is I already. And I am to be a girl. I shall have blond hair and blue eyes. Just about everything is settled though, even the fact that I shall love flowers.
October 3:
Some say that I am not a real person yet, that only my mother exists. But I am a real person, just as a small crumb of bread is yet truly bread. My mother is. And I am.
October 7:
My mouth is just beginning to open now. Just think, in a year or so I shall be laughing and later talking. I know what my first word will be: MAMA.
October 9:
My heart began to beat today all by itself. From now on it shall gently beat for the rest of my life without ever stopping to rest! And after many years it will tire. It will stop, and then I shall die.
October 17:
I am growing a bit every day. My arms and legs are beginning to take shape. But I have to wait a long time yet before those little legs will raise me to my mother’s arms, before those little arms will be able to gather flowers and embrace my father.
October 27:
Tiny fingers are beginning to form on my hands. Funny how small they are! I’ll be able to stroke my mother’s hair with them.
November 4:
It wasn’t until today that the doctor told mom that I am living here under her heart. Oh, how happy she must be! Are you happy, mom?
November 9:
My mom and dad are probably thinking about a name for me. But they don’t even know that I am a little girl. I want to be called Kathy. I am getting so big already.
November 24:
My hair is growing. It is smooth and bright and shiny. I wonder what kind of hair mom has?
November 27:
I am just about able to see. It is dark around me. When mom brings me into the World it will be full of sunshine and flowers. But what I want more than anything is to see my mom. How do you look, mom!
December 8:
I wonder if mom hears the whispering of my heart? Some children come into the World a little sick. But my heart is strong and healthy. It beats so evenly: tup-tup, tup-tup. You’ll have a healthy little daughter, mom!
December 12:
Today my mother killed me.
It’s a regional thing, I think. Everyone here tells me to call their parents by their first name and tease me when I resist.
@37 When was the last time you were in Japan? My homestay sisters only spoke in keigo to their relatives when they were in trouble.
@73 – i’m impressed that your homestay sisters spoke keigo to their relatives.
@74, I’m just talking like desu/masu keigo not murder your brain keigo.
@73
what disrespectful cunts!
I guess what i was trying to say was that the basis for formalities towards elders is there in the culture. May not be practiced as strictly now, but there is a basis for it.