Tim Burgess, the most conservative member of the Seattle City Council, is widely expected to run for mayor in 2013. He will need money and backing. Although he rode into office in 2007 on a fairly conservative recordโ€”he’s a former police officer, he used to work for the anti-gay and anti-woman organization Concerned Women for America, his campaign received money from Republican Party financier Jeffrey Wrightโ€”Burgess wooed the city (and The Stranger) into supporting him. Some of his allies then were also the major players behind Greg Nickels’s campaign for reelection in 2009 and then, when Nickels lost the primary, Joe Mallahan’s. Now the Downtown Seattle Association and the Greater Seattle Chamber of Commerce and the owners of huge swaths of property are trying to find a new leader at City Hall. A person to get behind in the next mayoral election. A person with a demonstrated ability to muscle through legislation that satisfies business interests. Burgess seems intent to prove that he can be their man.

And business interests could use a marionette at City Hall more than ever. Downtown office vacancy rates hit nearly 20 percent in March. The Columbia Centerโ€”Seattle’s flagship skyscraperโ€”couldn’t pay its $1.65 million mortgage payment in March and has an astonishing 40 percent vacancy rate. The Four Seasons hotel and condo hybrid is one-third empty. WaMu folded. The 25-story McGuire Apartments downtown, only nine years old, must be demolished due to construction errors. The Seattle City Council needs to find ways to attract business and tourism, and the homeless people who live on downtown streetsโ€”intrinsic fixtures in any cityโ€”arguably could deter visitors. If Burgess and the rest of the city council can win the support of business owners by passing a gesture law for them, Burgess and his colleagues can more easily tap that conservative wealth for their reelection campaigns.

The gesture law on the current agenda: an aggressive-solicitation bill, which Burgess introduced on February 25, that would create a new class of civilpenalty (aggressive begging is already a criminal offense). The new law would apply equally to beggars, Greenpeace canvassers, or Girl Scout cookie sellers who seem threatening. Without anyone complaining, an officer could ticket a person specifically for “engaging in intimidating conduct” while soliciting, which can include blocking someone’s path while asking for money, repeatedly soliciting a person who has given a negative response, or soliciting people while they use or immediately after they use an ATM or pay parking station. Burgess wants to fine violators $50 each. If they don’t pay or don’t show up for court, they get a warrant and can go to jail.

Banning harassment, freaking people out at the ATM, and blocking people’s path all seem reasonable enough. Fortunately, the city council passed a law in the 1990s that makes “beg[ging] with the intent to intimidate another person into giving money or goods” punishable by arrestโ€”if a person complains. If aggressive solicitation is so pervasive and worsening so much that city officials say we need a new lawโ€”downtown business interests say the aggressive-begging law we have is not enoughโ€”finding evidence of the problem
should be simple. “Aggressive solicitation is a serious public safety problem in Seattle,” says Burgess’s bill, which is expected to pass when the council votes on it Monday, April 19. “Many recent communications from citizens to the City Council indicate that citizens believe the problem of aggressive solicitation has increased substantially within the last year.”

So I decided to go looking for this substantially increasing public-safety problem myself.

T o be clear: We can’t pass laws to eliminate people on the street who are annoying or panhandlers with mental disorders who swear. Everyone hates those people, but the Constitution is clear that people have a right to be annoying and to swear and to ask for money.

If there is a problem, as Burgess says, his bill should mitigate that problem. But the penalty Burgess is pushing is backward for several reasons. The people who solicit aggressively are desperately poor, and asking them to cough up $50 would, by all reasonable speculation, require them to solicit more aggressively than ever. So the law could make the problem worse. Moreover, critics cite study after study showing that the solution to desperate beggars is hiring more beat cops, deploying more foot patrols, and offering services to get people into housing and treatment. Burgess (who supports all those other things) nonetheless insists that his bill (which funds none of those things) will act as a deterrent. He claims that what happened when Tacoma passed a similar law would happen in Seattle. “Tacoma, they passed their
ordinance, and they have never used it once. The problem has resolved itself,” he said.

So how bad is this problem, and could a new penalty improve things? Determined to find out, I walked from Pioneer Square to the north end of Belltown at dusk. This is the epicenter of panhandling, the heart of street disorder.

Taking the stairs out of the Pioneer Square transit station, I encountered my first solicitor on the mezzanine. He was a black man, playing a flute; his hat on the ground contained a sprinkle of coins. But his trilling seemed neither aggressive nor intimidating. So I forged on to First Avenue South and Yesler Way. Near the pergolaโ€”the cast-iron and glass gallery that covers benches where homeless people often sitโ€”a bony old white man approached in a long puffy coat and stopped about 10 feet from me. He made quacking noises, barely enunciating the words “spare change.” I felt dumbfounded by his quacks, but before I could speak, he strutted off.

Any time we restrict free speech, constitutional law requires evidence of a real problem. There must be a “compelling governmental interest,” courts have found. Burgess cites an alarming rise in crime from 2008 to 2009โ€”when one looks at all the major crimes lumped into a ballโ€”and he claims that people are afraid. According to the bill, an increasing rate of street disorder has caused crime to go up 22 percent in the last year from Pioneer Square to South Lake Union. But Burgess, in his bill and past statements, has misrepresented the facts.

Crime isn’t going up as a result of aggressive solicitation. Records from the Seattle Police Department (SPD) show that the combined rates of assault and robberyโ€”the sort of person-on-person crime that would be associated with street disorderโ€”actually dropped slightly downtown between 2008 and 2009. (Robberies from the stadium area to Denny Way went up by 27 incidents, and assaults dropped by 69 incidents.) The big increase in crime that Burgess uses as the basis for the new law is primarily the result of more theft like burglary and shoplifting (up 648 incidents). Moreover, most of the crime increase was in the South Lake Union neighborhood and First Hill (up 25 percent), followed by Belltown and the shopping district (up 24 percent). Those areas, it bears mentioning, are the places where thousands of units of residential and office development have been completed in the last three years and population density has increased the most. The city’s Department of Planning and Development estimates that South Lake Union, for instance, will gain 800 new jobs and 400 new households a year through 2024 (an area that had an estimated population of only 1,200 people in the year 2000). It follows logically that crime would increase as the population grows. But Pioneer Square, the area with the most panhandlers and social services, saw the slightest increase in crime in the past year (up only 8 percent overall), and assaults and robberies in Pioneer Square dropped. While thefts are a problem, they don’t suggest more solicitation or a widening violent streak downtown; rather, the bump in theft arguably reflects the financial desperation typical during an economic recession.

Another indication that things aren’t getting worse: 2008 marked a 40-year low for serious crime in Seattle, and the crime rate in 2009, although up slightly, was still 11 percent below the decade’s average, according to SPD data. In addition, Burgess misrepresented what happened with the similar law in Tacoma. The Seattle Times found that “police do occasionally issue citations” in Tacoma and have made one arrest, contradicting Burgess’s claim that it had never been used. Given the chance to correct himself, Burgess said his “office knew” about the arrest (which hadn’t been prosecuted) but didn’t know about the citations. He says the law in Seattle would give officers another “tool” to deal with “hustlers and drug traffickers” who are deterring tourists and conventions and pose a threat to the city’s economic recovery.

P erhaps the aggressive solicitors like the quacking man are letting me off easy because I don’t appear vulnerable enough. Studies show that tourists, heterosexual couples on dates, and women are more likely to be panhandled. So I walk under the pergola at the corner of First and Yesler, attempting to look docile and approachable. I closely pass people on benches. One man with five plastic Target bags of clothes smokes intently; the other is sipping from a Chinese-food to-go container of soup. Neither registers my existence. So I head north, trying to look generous. At Columbia Street, a Native American man with a ponytail walks up. Success! He will sell me a $2.50 bus ticket for $1 of cash money.

“I don’t have any money.”

“Okay, man. Take it easy,” he says, grinning, and walks away.

The Downtown Seattle Association (DSA)โ€”which sounds community-minded but is essentially a business and property-owners associationโ€”conducted surveys that found, from 2007 to 2009, residents’ extreme concerns about aggressive panhandling in the downtown core dropped from 57 percent to 32 percent. In a report, the DSA wrote, “Over the last three years, there has been a slight decrease in levels of extreme concerns for all issues” with “the largest improvements… in the areas of aggressive panhandlers.”

The Seattle Human Rights Commission, a board appointed by the city council and mayor to make recommendations on policy, issued a scathing 15-page report on Burgess’s bill, most of which was dedicated to debunking claim after claim in it. “Following a close inspection of these data and the factual statements that they are offered to support, we are concerned that the data are insufficient to support the substance of the proposed ordinance,” wrote the commission.

The human-rights commission voted unanimously to oppose the bill.

The commission went on to examine 24 e-mails from constituents that Burgess attached to his measure to demonstrate that a new law was necessary. But the commission found that “such data would typically not be relied upon to support the factual claim that the problem of aggressive panhandling has increased over time.” More biting: “Several letters indicate that the correspondence… was the result of a coordinated request, or general solicitation, for such correspondence.” In other words, these are a handful of e-mailsโ€”mostly e-mails that the DSA or Burgess asked people to sendโ€”apparently collected to create the impression of a problem. And still the e-mails don’t make the case. The Defender Association, a legal public-defense nonprofit, tallied complaints in the 24 constituent e-mails Burgess cited as evidence of the need for the new law. The organization found the law would address only five of the complaints, it could address two of the complaints, and it is unlikely to address the remaining majority of the complaints.

At a hearing on March 17, where bill opponents outnumbered supporters, the supporters largely argued that the bill would solve problems that, in fact, it wouldn’t address at all. The incidents described were almost exclusively unpleasant panhandling or offenses covered by existing criminal laws, which already carry stiffer penalties than a fine. Mitch Evans, a regional manager of Starbucks, testified in favor of the ordinance because, he said, one of his employees “was assaulted going out to a car” and another one was “confronted at knifepoint,” and often people are “asked to leave a store because they are bothering our customers.”

Richard Nordstrom, chair of the Belltown Community Council, told the public-safety committee that an “intimidating environment is created when someone is physically close or verbally loud.”

The aggressive-solicitation bill “is not something that will have addressed any of the complaints you heard about,” Jennifer Shaw, deputy director of the ACLU of Washington, told Burgess and the other committee members about three-quarters of the way through the public-comment period.

The ACLU of Washington compiled 10 studies that found police foot patrols are a better way to address problems with panhandling. “Ambiguous panhandling laws are often difficult to enforce, confusing to follow, and ultimately ineffective,” the ACLU wrote, citing a Department of Justice study on panhandling by the Office of Community Oriented Policing Services. The person-on-person crimes associated with street disorder are not spiking (they’re going down), aggressive solicitation is not a growing problem (downtown residents and business owners say it’s the number-one area of improvement), the complaints are not going up (those complaints that exist were prompted by a downtown business group and are overwhelmingly impertinent), and the bill wouldn’t solve the problem (it doesn’t stop people from being annoying and there are better laws on the books already).

All of this is to sayโ€”and the human-rights commission report essentially provesโ€”that there is no “compelling governmental interest” in passing Burgess’s law. Never mind common sense. If the council does pass the law, the claims used to justify it could serve as the basis for a lawsuit challenging it.

A man at First Avenue and Pike Street is aggressively drumming on buckets and solicits money with a change jar in front of him. He uses a Grey Goose bottle as a cowbell. A pedestrian in Dockers with his wife or girlfriend looks impressed, stops, and then tosses the man a buck. A detour to Second and Pike and then Third and Pike also elicits no aggressive solicitations, but many people are waiting for the bus, speaking louder into their cell phones than most people speak into cell phones, and speaking louder to each other than most people speak to each other. Being “verbally loud” could be intimidating to some people. I’ve been intimidated waiting for the bus on Third Avenue. The area around Third and Pike is famously dangerous.

Which is why Seattle needs more police, so SPD can deploy more foot patrols. Per capita, Seattle has some of the lowest numbers of sworn officers of any big city in the country. The city has ambitions to hire more and to station them in hot spots like Third and Pike.

One of the definitive studies on foot patrols, conducted by Michigan State University in 1983, found that “crime and calls for service were down in the 14 experimental areas over the three years of the program.” Under the direction of Seattle mayor Mike McGinn, on April 1, the police department redeployed bike cops to foot patrols, which could help the problem.

Burgess has smartly tried to couch his aggressive-solicitation bill as a parcel of strategies to make downtown feel safer, including more foot patrols, more cops, and more services. But, again, his billโ€”the centerpiece of his legislative agendaโ€”doesn’t do those things.

Critics say this isn’t just a bill without justification; it’s actually pernicious. A police officer could cite a solicitor on the spot without a complaint, and people who don’t pay the $50 fine or fail to show up in court would be automatically guilty of a misdemeanor. And city council member Sally Bagshaw says there is “virtually a 100 percent chance” that panhandlers won’t show up to court to pay the fine. She’s right. “Homeless and poor people are less likely to be able to appear in court,” wrote the Seattle Human Rights Commission, which added that these suspects are, as a result, “more likely to find themselves facing a failure to respond charge, which is a criminal misdemeanor.” And the Department of Justice has noted, “Officers realize that panhandlers are unlikely to either appear in court or pay a fine.” (Such people typically do not have addresses where they can collect a court summons.) The suspects do not have a right to an attorney to contest their infraction.

But if they do get charged with a crime for failing to pay or missing the court date, they can be jailed or committed to treatment, which circumvents the standard civil-
commitment process. In short, the bill lowers the burden of proof to a ticket (which does not require a complaint or guilt beyond a reasonable doubt) and sets up a poor, homeless, or vulnerable person for a criminal conviction. “For these reasons, the ordinance does not comply with human rights standards,” the commission wrote.

Most city council members say they will vote for the bill, despite the recommendations. Burgess did not mention the commission’s report in a committee meeting when three council members voted to forward the bill to the full council, nor did Burgess provide copies of the report to the public and press. Laura Lockard, spokeswoman for the city council, said the commission’s recommendation “gets as much weight as public comment.” (As it happens, more people spoke against the bill than in favor of it.) But shouldn’t a city-appointed commissionโ€”composed of lawyers, doctors, and policy expertsโ€”get more weight than someone who walks in off the street? Roslyn Solomon, chair of the commission, was too polite to answer that question directly. “We want to weigh in so the council has the benefit of our perspective, but what they do with that information is their call.” So far, the council has ignored it. Burgess technically says the commission “misunderstands” the ordinance. Do “we have to follow their counsel?” he asks rhetorically. “No,” says Burgess. “We are the decision makers.”

T he reason the bill exists at all is because it’s the pet project of elite downtown business interests.

“As long as we have been around, we have been concerned about aggressive panhandling and have wanted someone to address this very critical issue,” George Allen, vice president of government relations of the Greater Seattle Chamber of Commerce, told Burgess’s Public Safety & Education Committee on March 17.

The DSA, meanwhile, cites “panhandling legislation” among its top five priorities. The DSA is positively obsessed with homeless people. Three years ago, the DSA’s Metropolitan Improvement District ambassadors (visible as the folks in yellow vests who patrol downtown) began developing a spreadsheet intimately tracking the personal lives of panhandlers. A copy of the spreadsheet obtained by The Stranger (the version we obtained was updated as recently as last summer) details where homeless people stand, their behavior, their appearance, their age, their physical disabilities, which days of the week they show up, speculation about their mental-health problems, and so on. It “was developed to identify those who were frequent fixtures on the streets of downtown Seattle,” says DSA spokesman Randy Hurlow. The people on the list have refused services promoted by the DSA and offered by the security guards, Hurlow adds. The descriptions are tragic:

“Jonas, Native American. Carries ‘Smile’ sign. If he gets a regular job he will lose his disabled benefits. Experiences seizures.”

“Wht, grey hair, uses cane. Carries sign that says ‘Help me.'”

“Dorothy. Blk. Black hair, sunken cheeks, unusual walk, possible back problems.”

Of the 27 “frequent fixture” panhandlers, the security guards designated only four of them as aggressive.

Incredibly enough, Burgess insists that his legislation isn’t done at the behest of business groups that have made panhandling laws a priority, that have lobbied for them for years, that have maintained this meticulous spreadsheet about the personal details of common panhandlers, and that have helped to fund Burgess’s political career. (DSA’s chief operating officer, David Dillman, contributed to Burgess’s campaign in 2007.) Neither Burgess nor the heads of the DSA nor the chamber of commerce admit that the people in this carefully tended list are the intended targets of the law.

“They are paying an awful lot of attention to the specifics of who is panhandling for this to not be about that,” says Tim Harris, executive director of the homeless newspaper Real Change. “This bill is absolutely about the list of panhandlers, and it is absolutely about panhandling.”

“That’s not my issue at all,” says Burgess, asked about the DSA’s close tracking of panhandlers.

But DSA spokesman Hurlow says that his group has been lobbying the city council for the past year and a half trying to get a bill passed.

If you ask Burgess about the bill, he says it gives police another tool for dealing with problem people. He says that there are a handful of organizations serving the homeless that back his billโ€”like Plymouth Housing Group, a church organization. However, more of those groups oppose the measure, including Real Change, Seattle/King County Coalition on Homelessness, and Catholic Community Services. “I am concerned the way the law is written is different than the way you characterized it,” said Flo Beaumon, associate director of Catholic Community Services, at a hearing before the council. She said it’s so broadly worded that it could “get rid of anybody you think is aggressive.”

Indeed, some people would find the quacking man to be aggressive, or the drummer to be aggressive, or anyone strange to be aggressive. Sometimes people are just annoying. In trying to prove his case for the law, Burgess provided the city council with letters sent to Seattle’s Convention and Visitors Bureau, one of which read, “A nice visit to your new public library off of Fifth turned into an excuse for strange people to ask me strange questions.”

I got to Belltown. It is at this north end of downtown that the gulf between classes seems widest and most abysmal. Three young women sipping lattes were all walking in front of a pet store selling a ramp that, according to the photo on the box, helps a golden retriever walk into a minivan without having to jump. There was chic plastic furniture in store windows. An elderly Latino man in a dirty black coat was walking next to the women. Down the way, a very old homeless man was lying in a doorway, half covered in a gray wool blanket, reading a weathered paperback.

“Most of the testimony is from people who say, ‘I was in an area and this is how I felt,'” says Council Member Sally Clark. She acknowledges that most of the testimony in favor of the bill is about things that aren’t covered by the bill or are simply annoying behavior, but she is going to vote for it anyway.

That a majority of the city council, a group of overwhelmingly white people who get paid over $100,000 a year, is taking this legislation seriouslyโ€”and plans to pass itโ€”despite the avalanche of evidence and opposition, is a reminder of this psychic chasm between wealth and disadvantage. They take misguided anecdotal complaints seriously, then offer a bill that ratifies the wealthy interests of downtown, makes no sense, doesn’t solve the problem it pretends to address, doesn’t fund things that would solve the problem, and gives Burgess a legislative “accomplishment” he can run on later.

Is this a bellwether of where the council is going? Many of this same majority of the councilโ€”Clark, Burgess, Richard Conlin,
Tom Rasmussen, and Jean Goddenโ€”are helping lead the fight to widen the 520 bridge without any dedicated lanes for transit. All five are also in favor of tunneling under the city to build a state highway and agreed to make city taxpayers liable for all cost overruns. Conlin and Rasmussen want to replace part of Seattle Center slated to be public lawns with a for-profit glass museum at the behest of a rich Republican family that owns the Space Needle.

This is the new city council. This billโ€”built on misrepresentation of facts, kowtowing to conservative money, and targeting the poorest people for political gainโ€”is a glimpse into this conservative council’s priorities.

The sad thing is that the city council and business interests lobbying city hall could be spending thousands of collective hours on filling vacant officesโ€”and thereby filling some of the empty nearby condos, downtown restaurants, businesses, etc.โ€”and, in turn, generating stacks more tax revenue for the city. Business-interest puppeteers should be pulling strings with city hall to determine what it would take to woo a couple large corporations with thousands of employees to Seattle (like Russell Investments’ recent move from Tacoma). If the council could solve that puzzle, the cascade of added revenues would provide money for more foot patrols (not just officers taken off of bikes and put on foot), more cops on the beat, more case workers to target the mere four aggressive solicitors whom a massive downtown audit of homeless people has identified, and human-services groups that help mitigate poverty downtown. In other words, the council could use its time for solutions that would work. Instead, the council is capitulating to money, taking overblown concerns at face value, and sacrificing the poor and the homeless as pawns. recommended

82 replies on “The Law that Targets “Strange” People on the Street”

  1. Increased police presence, the solution you offer, may serve the goals of increasing intimidation and fear among people on the streets, thereby lessening “street disorder” through a show of force, but it may be harmful in other ways. Police do not seem to understand how to respond to the desperation of poverty and mental illness some people on the streets face. When police feel intimidated, they may respond with violence instead of care and support. Consider the homeless, mentally ill man shot in Portland recently (http://www.opb.org/thinkoutloud/shows/ho…). Alternatives to the police state exist. Especially when it comes to addressing issues of poverty. What about mutual aid and reducing the distance you speak of between classes? Intimidation from police is not a long term solution.

  2. But I also know how it feels to be on the other side of the street. The one holding a sign, the one who’s avidly asking for HELP; & getting shrugged off by people who could truthfully care less for my well being & have become immune to my silent cries.

    “Is verbally aggressive”. Well no shit, when someone tells you to “fuck off” after standing on your feet all day attempting to make some money so you can feed your damn dog… how the hell would you feel?

    Your verbally aggressive friend is exactly why I stopped giving money to beggars several years ago. I used to try to be generous and acknowledge the humanity of beggars on the street by giving them money. After a lifetime of being treated like shit by them — even as I gave them something, I gave up giving money and switched to at least acknowledging their humanity by smiling and politely declining to give them money. Now that I’ve been insulted for that about 90 percent of the time, I’m fucking done. I will now be the person who doesn’t even acknowledge your existence.

    No individual person owes you anything. You are *begging*. If you and your friends don’t have the common sense and self-respect to be gracious to the people you are BEGGING for help, you really have no hope.

  3. @58, 60: by far the greatest amount of intimidation and fear among people on the streets is perpetrated not by cops but by other people on the streets.

    The man who was shot by police in Portland was violent and crazy, and was threatening people in a park with a knife. Now imagine you’re homeless and living in that same park: who’s going to protect you from people like that?

  4. @36

    This is what we call a “statistical interpretation”.

    ————————

    WRONG. It is not a “statistical interpretation”. It is a recounting of the fucking fact that at least 14 of the 28 murders in Seattle in 2008 and at least 12 of the 21 murders in Seattle in 2009 were committed by blacks. Therefore blacks are committing at least half the murders in Seattle. There is no other way to “interpret” that. And I don’t give a flying fuck if they are “poor”. No excuses for murder and rape!

    If you want some actual “statistical interpretation”, here it is:

    Blacks make up only 8% of Seattle, which means that “crime age” teen and adult black males make up only about 3% of Seattle. Therefore a group that makes up less than 3 percent of Seattle commits at least half the murders in Seattle every year.

  5. There are 460 members of the DSA, including most, if not all, of the organizations in downtown that assist the homeless, including: Building Changes, Downtown Emergency Service Center, FareStart, Goodwill Seattle, Low Income Housing Institute, Plymouth Housing Group, Recovery Cafe, The Millionair Club Charity, United Way of King County, YMCA of Greater Seattle and the YWCA. I wonder what these organizations think of the proposed ordinance? These are some of the key organizations working on homelessness and poverty in Seattle. They are also members of the DSA. But I guess Dominic didn’t see fit to get their opinions? With all the time he apparently spent wandering around looking demure, he might have done some additional research and actually talked with people who are working on the issue. Seems a little strange – all those words in the article, and yet nothing from the experts. Zip. NADA. If all the actual experts working on this issue were against the ordinance, I would expect to see them front-and-center in Dominic’s article. Instead, they’re not even MENTIONED. How odd.

  6. This issue has nothing to do with the tunnel, 520 or Chihuly. I’m as liberal as anyone – I’m not a member of the DSA – and I support this ordinance.

    You forgot to link to the Seattle Human Rights Commission Report, which states:

    “Every individual is entitled to feel safe and be safe in his or her person, home, and community. This right includes the right of every individual to live, work, and visit in downtown Seattle.”

    This is not the case today in downtown Seattle for older people, women, the disabled and minorities, because a small group of street predators is making our lives miserable. We have rights too, but they have been overlooked in your article. Did you try and speak to any of us?

    I read the Commission Report, and it is pathetic. Their sole relevant statistical challenge to the Burgess ordinance is that people living downtown are also concerned about drug dealers and drunks! The overall plan presented by Burgess puts more SPD feet on the street to tackle these problems, so this is an irrelevant criticism. In terms of business dollars, I don’t care how many conventions Seattle or the DSA loses. I care about being able to leave between my apartment without feeling like I need a chaperone. Do I call Tim Harris, The Stranger, the SHRC or the ACLU for help next week? I’m so sick of Tim Harris on this issue that I am ready to stop supporting Real Change (which I’ve done since the beginning).

    It’s not Real Change vendors that this ordinance is about. It’s the crack addled predator on Third who harasses me for the entire block every time he sees me coming. Dominic, your ‘survey’ is insulting. You are a capable looking young man and so you won’t get harassed. I imagine some of the other commenters are also young people like yourself. I can assure you that you would be on the opposite side of this issue if you were an older retired person trying to get home from the store on pension day. Try walking in my shoes for a day and you might have some compassion for our side.

    The situation has gotten noticeably worse since the economic downturn and this approach worked in Tacoma. I can only hope that McGinn gets out of his Prius or off his bike long enough to support us.

  7. Seattle is full of liberal dipshits who talk out both sides of their necks. They wine and cry over the dumbest shit from the safety and confines of their dead-tech dumb ass condos or quaint craftsman houses in Freemont/Ballard/Greenlake. I’d guess almost none of these so-called “homeless supporters” work downtown or near UAve. If they did, they’d probably shut the fuck up and support police foot patrols like they USED to have. Weak-ass liberal crackers thought that cops in leather jackets projected an “aggressive” image – try walking up to an ATM on 2nd/Cherry sometime. Thank God I am licensed to carry a piece.
    Lastly, …”when someone tells you to “fuck off” after standing on your feet all day attempting to make some money so you can feed your damn dog… how the hell would you feel?” What kind of a homeless dickhead has a fucking dog!?! I thought you people were begging money for food to feed YOURSELF! This ranks right up there with “homeless” shitbags in Ballard laying on the sidewalk outside the library watching a portable DVD player!
    Solution: send the aggressive shitsacks all to Tegucigalpa in Honduras – they’d be chopped up by MS13 and feed to THEIR dogs!

  8. “The Downtown Seattle Association (DSA)โ€”which sounds community-minded but is essentially a business and property-owners association”

    DSA only represent the downtown interests.
    They do not represent other business groups
    in Seattle.

    DSA and GSCC have been lead poorly over the last
    decade or so and honestly, I feel that they
    have no idea what to do next. The situation
    downtown is beyond bad and they are really
    grasping at straws. The outer regional cities
    are eating their lunch and they really have
    no recourse to stop it. Why so much effort
    on panhandling? Broken window theory? Come on.

    Couple of reasons:

    1. Overbuilt office space and no jobs to fill them. We are talking about 7+ million or about
    7 skyscrappers worth of empty office space.

    2. Retail is down about 15%-20% empty. U Village, Bellevue, Northgate, and other malls
    are kicking their butts with updated malls and free parking. No reason to go downtown.

    3. Parking truly stinks and is very expensive.
    See #2.

    4. The wet dream of retirees and empty nesters
    coming from a Single family home with a yard
    to live in tiny condos downtown was a crack
    pipe dream.

    5. You want the real reason why there are so
    many poor people? ALL OF THE SOCIAL SERVICES
    ARE LOCATED IN THE ID AND PIONEER SQ.
    Sorry for the all caps, but duh.

    6. The publicity of showing downtown as dangerous and scary really doesn’t help the PR
    of the area. Come on, the logic is like:
    Hey, we passed a law to keep the panhandlers away! Come on down and shop, live, and have fun.
    Tough sell.

    7. There was NO JOB growth in Seattle. All of the job growth was outside of Seattle.

    Funny thing is that the city council is still
    denial that we are in a major recession and all
    of the extra money for the general fund was
    from construction. Da city is broke, folks.
    Strangely, McGinn is the only city official
    who truly understands the magnitude of the
    financial hole Seattle is in.

  9. Nice article. I think it is fascinating that some people feel so shit on, threatened, annoyed, etc. by homeless people on the street, such as @59, while others feel almost completely opposite, such as @28. I think this says more about the people experiencing these things than about the safety of our city.

    Bottom line is that we’ve already got laws for this stuff. We can talk all day about what we think about homelessness, how we feel about panhandling, but what is this bill going to do, other than make it easier to give panhandlers a ticket/misdemeanor? Will it change anything for good? It seems like some people are arguing against Holden’s argument against this, but almost no one is arguing FOR it. Regardless of women’s feelings of safety, what % of crime is committed by what races, etc. etc. does anyone think this bill will help anything?

  10. What happened to Seattle’s plan to eradicate homelessness within ten years?

    This is typical Seattle problem-unsolving. A law to punish one group for potentially making another group feel uncomfortable. Still, good riddance to that god-awful adult-contemporary Jesus band you can hear for blocks outside of Westlake. That’s aggressive panhandling. Invasive and annoying too.

    How do you regulate common behavior? Slippery slope, or dead in the water- those are the only outcomes. Anyone remember Mark Sidron’s failed attempt to make it illegal to sit down on public sidewalks? How’d that go anyway? Fines? Jail? I wouldn’t worry about enforcing this if it passed. Cops can’t even get street robberies under control at the moment.

    Also- Everyone hates people who have mental disorders? Really? I don’t think that’s true… Unless everyone in your world is an asshole.

  11. I must say I very much agree with Councilman Burgess that the state of downtown and the homeless there is disconcerting at best.

    I recently was in the Pioneer Square/Third Ave area on a Monday around 9pm after attending ‘Winky,’ the play advertised in this very paper.
    It was the most frightening experience I have had in Seattle.
    A man followed me for three blocks attempting to solicit $20 (and then increasingly smaller amounts) from me.
    To say he was aggressive would be an understatement.
    He only left me alone after he spotted another person to presumably hunt.
    Immediately following this, a middle-aged prostitute asked me if I “want[ed] a date.”

    Then I reached the bus stop where I waited half an hour, cold and very frightened.
    The few other people there looked as paranoid of me as I was of them.
    A tourist couple waiting for a bus even took refuge in a doorway so that they, and their expensive looking luggage, would be less visible.

    During this experience there was not a single police officer to ask for help. There were no open businesses for me to take refuge in.

    I’m from Portland. I’m only here going to college.
    In the worst neighborhood of downtown Portland, Burnside, where there are scores more homeless people than I encountered that night, I have never felt unsafe.
    And I have been in Burnside at four in the morning, when the only other people were garbage men, the Voodoo Doughnuts cashier, and many homeless.
    Why? There are police.
    Police!
    Even at four in the morning. Especially at 9pm on a weeknight.
    I would have to intentionally walk through the least inhabited alleys of Burnside to go three blocks without seeing a police car up close or in the distance. Apparently the Seattle Police can not be bothered to send a single patrol down a major thoroughfare.

    Before Councilman Burgess gives the police another tool to crack down on the people who make downtown psychically insecure after dark, he needs to encourage the police to actually patrol.
    There will be no revitalization of downtown Seattle until that happens.
    I know I will consciously avoid downtown after dark from now on, even if there is an excellent play being performed.

    Michael Hoselton
    Seattle Pacific University

  12. Actually, posters 36 and 62, the demographic breakdown for black people in Seattle is 13% not 8%. If you’re going to be a racist douchebag at least get your numbers right. Maybe one of the 15.4% of Seattle’s population that are of Asian heritage can help you with that. Dicks.

  13. @ 63

    “There are 460 members of the DSA, including most, if not all, of the organizations in downtown that assist the homeless,”

    Ok Kari Kedi or Kate Joncas or her admin.

    I call bullshit. Who are on the board of
    directors and executive committee? Oh, all of the major property and business owners in
    the downtown core. Who were all past chairperson
    ? I didn’t see any of those non-profits you
    mentioned become they do not generate any income
    or tax revenue. DSA has a paid staff of 30
    folks and resources you could not believe.
    If you are going spin, please do your fucking
    homework. And, I am glad that Bellevue
    and Kemper are going to kick your lazy asses in
    Seattle. Oh the panhandling ordinance?
    As if that will change anyone from coming
    to downtown and shop. Go to U Village. It’s
    nice, clean, and free parking. Hot UW girls
    really help too.

  14. @74, screw your tin hat on a little tighter. Kate Joncas or her admin? Yeah, good one.

    Do you have even the slightest idea about how a membership organization runs? Obviously not. You apparently subscribe to the Dominic Holden-DSA-Illumninati-running-government-through-marionettes scheme. How about this – you do YOUR fucking homework before you post bullshit on the Internet, you sad twat.

  15. Press Release
    Date: 04/17/2010

    From: United African Public Affairs Committee of Washington State
    Regarding: Panhandling Ordinance in the city of Seattle

    After thoughtful consideration of the Panhandling Ordinance, United African Public Affairs Committee of Washington State(UAPAC) is calling for the Seattle City council no to Pass this ordinance. We strongly believe this ordinance has little chance if any to deal with the safety issue in Down Town Seattle. It will give a broader power to the law enforcement authority, and this could lead to some abuses. This ordinance will also target many law abiding panhandlers who are peaceful, and genuinely trying to survive by asking help. We already have laws in the books to punish those who are intentionally trying to harass people on the streets, and we donโ€™t see the need to duplicate it.
    We have a big respect for Tim Burges; he has been a great and effective council member. We also believe that he means well, and he cares about the safety of the people of the city of Seattle. However, we (UAPAC) respectfully disagree with him on the Panhandling Ordinance.
    We are calling for all city council members to listen to the people of Seattle, and not to vote for this Ordinance

    M.SH. Hassan (UAPAC Public Relation Director)
    Email: info@auapac.org
    Website: UAPAC.ORG
    Thank you.

  16. It always stuns me, reading comments on the Stranger articles, that even among the liberal leaning readership of the Stranger that there are so many racists.

    No, I’m not saying “liberals are racists”–I am a liberal…it’s obv conservatives trolling. And I’m not referring to the “you spoke carelessly and stereotyped” kind of racism. I’m talking about folks like 36 above.

    Here’s what that tells me…there are more racists–the old school kind–than we know among us.

  17. Show me some pictures of homeless people in Seattle who are FROM SEATTLE, and I might start giving a shit.

    Support your local homeless, not these out-of-state homeless.

  18. If this law covers those little pricks who stand in your way and harass you to donate to their bullshit charity on every freaking corner on broadway, then I fully endorse it.

  19. Aggressive pan-handling? This being Seattle I would think that an ordinance against PASSIVE-aggressive pan-handling would be the issue. Like when you’re walking up the street and you see someone that you know needs money but they just ignore you.

  20. I wish we had Brazilian Death Squads that would clear downtown of the tweakers, alcoholics, and thugs that harass people for change on a monthly basis. That is beautification I can live with.

  21. Hm. I have to say that I do not go downtown unless I have to because of the difficulties with parking rather than panhandling. I do feel a bit vigilant in my approach to panhandlers, IE no eye contact,
    But I often talk to myself to keep people from approaching me as a safety mechanism.

    Pretending to be a crazy person helps hold off the actual crazy people. I hope no one considers my talking to myself as intimidating, as I would getfined by this ordinance

  22. Timmeh, My My.
    I am a conservative too but this thing is ridiculous. There is an error in the spread sheet. Tim, David Dillman, Eric Lacitis, Louie Peterson (yup. that Louie Peterson) and I are all Lincoln High ’67 making Tim 61 not 50’s. Oh! Wait! Is that a conflict with DSA. Maybe not. Just cuz Dave and Tim are members of the same graduating class probably means nothing. you don’t have to take my word for it. Check Classmates.com.

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  24. Something to think about – beggars are not always homeless.

    Many years ago (2005? 2007? something like that) in Gainesville, Florida there was an investigation into stoplight beggars. (People who beg while you are in your car trapped at a red light.) Although many of them held up signs claiming to be homeless (or veterans), they all had homes and were just trying to support their drug habits while paying their rents or mortgages. To be sure, there were/are homeless people in Gainesville but they lived on the opposite side of town and did not venture over to the middle class neighborhoods where the beggars were.

  25. “In reality his firm did PR consulting for them, as The Stranger well knows. That’s a pretty big difference. He also did PR work for other, much more liberal firms. Might be more honest to mention them, too.”

    Oh! So he’s a PR flack with no convictions at all. That’s good to know!

  26. Not all panhandlers are drug addicts. I do some panhandling and have never smoked, drinked, or do drugs. I went threw a divorce I didn’t want but theres no protection from no-fault and a wife who isn’t happy financially and at the same time I was downsized from a job I held for 8 years and to make matters worse my unemployment ran out and social services doesn’t want to give me any foodstamps which some men only get because m not disabled, or have any children, or don’t have a substance abuse. The law doesn’t protect the Godly man so here I am forced to panhandle. O another thing women need to stop stealing jobs from men when the economy is this bad.

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