@98 Hmm, but that's referenced at one of those websites/groups that says being overweight has nothing to do with food or diet...for *most* people, when you eat sugar/simple carbs, you gain weight, eat mostly veggies, meat, and some whole grains, you don't gain weight. Exercise helps keep the poundage down, being sedentary does not. As much as I would like to think I could lose weight by eating French bread and brie cheese, and sitting in front of the computer commenting here all day (!), it probably wouldn't happen. Maybe there are people who are atypical, but for most people, healthy food and exercise = healthy weight.

@100 Rach3l
Uh, do you have kids? Just curious, because I have 3 of them, have traveled a lot by plane, from the time they were 2 months old, and they never had pop, nor do I consider myself an abusive parent because of it. Teaching your kid to associate self-soothing with sugar? Oh yeah, brilliant parenting move, there. Small kids on planes get toys, crayons, magic ink books, walks up and down the aisle (and if mummy's lucky she gets a gin and tonic), but pop? A three year old in an enclosed space with a sugar high? Honey, you get back to me after you try that one...

I remember something I saw somewhere on the Internet – a guy who worked at a grocery store said that poor and working-class families often fill up their carts with high-starch, low-nutrition stuff, pre-prepared stuff, snack foods, and it comes out to around $150. Affluent families, meanwhile, fill their carts with vegetables, lean meats and higher-quality prepared stuff: it comes out to around $300.

I also think about a neighborhood I lived in for a while – getting to the grocery store was almost impossible without a car. If you didn't have a car, what were your food options? You guessed it: fast food, snacks, greasy fried stuff, stuff from the gas station.

I also think about how many working people simply don't have much time or energy at the end of the day – time and energy that might otherwise go to cooking. And about how many schools actually serve their kids junk food, for the same basic reasons their parents do: it's what's within their budget.

In my experience, a huge, systemic, nation-wide problem most likely requires a huge, systemic, nation-wide solution. Are there parents who could totally afford to provide healthy food to their kids, but who don't because they're lazy or ignorant? Yeah, there are, but that's really not the problem. As long as people lack the resources to obtain and prepare healthy food, there will be huge problems with obesity and poor nutrition in the US.

@107

Of course it's cheaper to fill up a cart with boxes and cans than real food. Real food has less packaging and dead space. If the families are affluent to begin with, they're probably buying higher quality than is strictly necessary.

My husband and I spend about $125 on food per month for the two of us. We like cooking and we're cheap, so it works out for us. Give me any packaged meal or food and I will tell you exactly how I can make it cheaper than the factory can.

Eating well is not expensive and it's not limited to the upper class. Anyone who disagrees is welcome to join me for Sunday dinners at my grandma's. Spanish-language skills highly recommended.

I also lived in such a neighborhood once. I took the bus.

I've worked since I was 15. Yes, I'm generally tired at the end of the day. But cooking dinner is as hard as you make it. 15 minutes in the morning plus a slow cooker means a hearty, healthy stew for dinner. Slow cookers are $20 new, $3 at Goodwill, and $1.50 at garage sales.

The problem is big but the solution is small and individual: Take care with your food. Food isn't an inconvenience or a tragedy. The idea that cooking is difficult is simply perpetuated by people selling boxed goods. 50 years ago cooking wasn't difficult it was just a fact of life. And they didn't have internet recipes or most of the appliances we have.

@ 105 - "Maybe there are people who are atypical, but for most people, healthy food and exercise = healthy weight"

I think you've managed to elegantly (as always) sum up the whole issue. There may be other factors that influence weight gain, but "eat well and exercise and you won't become morbidly obese" is a good rule of thumb.

All the data shows that Western societies are becoming more and more sedentary and rely more and more on processed/prepared/junk food, and guess what? People are getting fatter and fatter. That's not just a correlation.

Poor people have less access to healthy food or less time to prepare it? Sure, but poverty is also linked to many crimes, and would you agree with those criminals being allowed to use a "poverty defense" in court? Didn't think so.

Grow up, people, and start accepting responsability for your own life/physical state, especially if your about to fuck up your children's by refusing to take off your blinders.

Tim Minchin's song is not meant for kids, it's meant for parents so that they will stop doing that. The ignorant ones here are those who didn't get that.

And to think that someone once scolded me for saying Slog posters were offensively PC... Well, I guess some of them aren't.

@98: Why are you posting a link to the response to Dan's post instead of the post? Perhaps it's because the post wasn't actually that objectionable.

I was a fat kid and then a fat adult. I fought with my weight my entire life, less as a pretty active kid (but it took fewer extra lbs. to be considered fat in the 1970's) and then more as an adult with a fairly normal sedentary, urban lifestyle.

I tried just about EVERYTHING and ANYTHING over the years to lose the weight. I was like the majority of Americans looking for a silver bullet.

Finally, around my 40th birthday, I found one. During the last year and half, I lost close to 80 lbs., going from 255 lbs and a 40" waist to 175 lbs. and a 30" waist. THAT'S RIGHT I FOUND SILVER BULLET TO WEIGHT LOSS. Drum roll: I finally gave up and pretty much removed high fats and sugar from my diet and exercised more. Despite the billions of $$ spent on diet in U.S., it basically amounts to simple math, properly balancing calories consumed with those burned.

The weight literally fell off before my eyes. Several wardrobes later, always thinking that I had plateaued, I found my correct wait and finally discovered what I look like as a healthy and "normal" weight man (i.e., as a modern, "skinny" American).

My family and some friends and colleagues think it's strange. They constantly are trying to undermine my new diet. ("One cookie won't matter.) But I wouldn't go back to being fat for anything. I have new energy and my doctor says I literally have added years to my life. Nothing makes me sadder than seeing morbidly obese children...Their parents are abusing them and no one cares. I am hoping many, many others learn to improve their basic math skills.

this idea that we have to fear sweets is a little over the top. there's a middle area between having a treat and enjoying life, and needing a treat to enjoy life.

We don't have to fear any sweets, but they should be occasional treats and not the foundation for our diets...

Once you achieve a healthy weight, you can splurge every-once-in-a-while, but you do it knowing that you need to hit the gym a little harder and maybe cut calories a little more, to make up for that special burst of fat or sugar calories.

Again, it's basic math. You consume more calories than you burn, and you will get fat. It's really that simple. I was fat for the first 40 years of my life, but I ALWAYS at my core understood that much. Is it really that hard to understand?

I see a lot of indignant justifications here, and not a lot of recognition that though you can be unhealthy and thin (something I have yet to see anyone dispute), if you're obese you're very likely also unhealthy, particularly if you are a child.

So is anyone willing to claim that rising obesity and rising prevalence of type two diabetes (even in children, which used to be very rare) is unrelated? That there is no link between obesity and cardiovascular disease, one of the most common causes of death in the western world?

Can genetics play a role? Sure. Do poor people face challenges that others don't face? Yes. But Europe and Asia and South America all have poor people (hey, remember when you could distinguish the poor because they were thinner?), and have widely varying genetics, and none of them have the kind of obesity the US of A has. So maybe, just maybe, we should admit that obesity is caused by people doing things they ought not be doing, in most cases.

This is even more tragic in the case of children, who eat what their parents feed them. If you are unwilling to concede that, exceptions and subpopulations aside, there are clear links between life choices and obesity and between obesity and various diseases, then you are frankly in denial, and in an effort to not make fat children feel bad are doing them no favors.

I do think you can find low fat foods for cheap, but this isn't the same thing as healthy in my opinion. For me to consider something as "healthy," it needs to also be free of carcinogens, pesticides, shady additives in general, and empty calories. When you add these requirements, food gets a lot more expensive.

So you can easily be thin on a budget, but being healthy on a budget is more difficult.

And here in AK, fresh produce is definitely NOT cheap (everything is expensive here, but produce disproportionately so). I eat about the same as I did when I lived in the lower 48, only now produce comprises well over half of my grocery bill. If I were getting paid as low as I did before moving up here, I'd have to settle for shitty frozen veggies (just as healthy, but far less tempting than a delicious bunch of fresh kale). I miss the days when a big bag of apples was a negligible expense.

But I also have the luxury of a steady daily schedule that allows me to prepare meals from scratch. I can easily understand someone with an unpredictable schedule, working multiple shifts every day, opting for the "quick-and-filling" meals, since eating is just another rushed task at that point. Not that this makes it impossible to devote time for proper cooking, but it sure as hell makes it harder, and I think that's worth mentioning.

And while I generally am sensitive to arguments about social justice and understand that poorer, inner city neighborhoods likely are underserved with high-quality grocery stores, I think it's just wrong to assume that all fat people are somehow victims of our economic system.

I think many, many of them are simply lazy and self indulgent people who like fast food, junk food, soda, processed foods and hate exercise and the somewhat harder effort that cooking and buying more healthy food entails.

amazonvera,

You are arguing that since a vast majority Americans have a unhealthy lifestyle (any stats to back that up?) that talking about childhood obesity, or obesity in general, as a negative thing is completely off limits; that if you describe obesity at all in a bad light you are now shaming people and bullying them into worsening their condition.

I'll agree that adults who feed their kids (fat or thin) crap on a regular basis and don't force them to get exercise are abusing their children, and should be ashamed of it. The adults who let their kids become morbidly obese are even worse because the abuse is literally looking them in the face.

Your psychobabble on "body shame" has a white-bias. Studies have shown that there are groups where being large doesn't automatically translate into poor self image, suicide. I believe african-american women are such a group, which probably explains why over 50% of them are considered "obese" by the CDC's statistics (http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/14/health…)

As someone who put on weight once I moved out of my mother's house, it kind of upsets me that she might have been blamed for that, because she's a total 3 veg at every meal lots of salad, no junk food person. Whenever that song played on my iPod when I was in a semi-rural southern Wal-mart, I would cackle a bit and probably looked like a crazy person.

when has anyone said that all fat people are also poor? nobody has ever made the argument that every fat person is free of responsibility. there's just been lots of people saying "hey, not everyone can help their weight, not every fat person is unhealthy, please stop making generalizations, oh and by the way, this is no different than making shitty generalizations about gay people"
i wouldn't speak for anyone else, but i'm asking for a little fucking sensitivity and respect.

@ 114, the point is that there is a known causative relationship in this scenario, and it is between poor diet and poor health. Another correlative, not causative, factor that will frequently also appear is obesity. No doubt. But it's a correlative symptom, not a causative one, that doesn't appear in all people with poor health and/or poor diet and does appear, with some frequency, in people with good diet and good health/health problems not caused by diet.

There is an enormous body of scientific evidence that indicates all of this, and there's still a lot we don't know about why one person will eat like crap, stay thin, and develop type 2 diabetes while another will eat well, be overweight from the day they're born, and never have a major health issue. What we do know is that a healthy eating movement that focuses on fat people and how awful it is to be fat is, without fail, going to target a lot of the wrong people (who, let's face it, already have to deal with plenty of hate that doesn't even masquerade as concern) and leave behind a lot of those who desperately need that message. Given all of that on top of the rates of depression, suicide, and substance abuse in overweight kids and how many studies show that shame and emotional distress exacerbate diet-related obesity (because if body shame was an effective weight loss tool, we'd already be one of the thinnest countries on earth), how does anyone who claims to be concerned about health and the wellbeing of young people justify approaching things this way?

@ 117, no, I'm saying that because obesity is known not to be anything near universally, directly linked to poor diet or poor health, making that false connection should be off limits. Because it's incorrect. The fact that it harms already marginalized kids is just why it's extra shitty.

If you seriously need me to link you to a study, I will, but it's ridiculous that you'd try to take part in a conversation about poor diet in America without knowing this full well yourself. Here's a good start. Note that this study allowed people to list french fries as a serving of vegetables and people still couldn't make it; http://www.webmd.com/food-recipes/news/2…

There are non-white communities where fat doesn't translate to poor body image at equally high rates to whites and some where it translates to much higher rates. There are none where it doesn't translate to poor body image at significant rates, and many Asian communities, not whites, lead the pack. So nice try, but no.

@119, mmmcheezy: it may be true that "not everyone" can help "their" weight, but most can, if it's important to them.

The nerve on which many defensive overweight people seem to have been struck is telling: a statement of fact (most overweight people are capable of losing weight) is interpreted as "Therefore, we think you're a bad person because you don't." That may be true for some critics, but not for all, certainly not me. I believe that in a free country there is no significant moral dimension to an adult citizen choosing to be overweight, even morbidly so, as long as he or she takes the consequences for being so.

What's reprehensible (and what is, I believe, the point Dan is trying to sink into people's heads) is that there IS a moral dimension to parents who, through ignorance or laziness or just plain apathy, force that choice onto their children.

The tiny percentage or fraction of a percentage of people who have glandular disorders that prevent one from losing weight: you have my sympathy. But it's hard to pick you out of the crowd of 150-lb sixth graders at KFC getting a bucket of wings and a 32-oz soda each.

@108 - "I also lived in such a neighborhood once. I took the bus."

Yeah, but in this particular neighborhood that I'm talking about, the bus was slow, out-of-the-way and unreliable - you're just gonna have to take my word for it that getting to the supermarket was very difficult without a car.

@109 - "Poor people have less access to healthy food or less time to prepare it? Sure, but poverty is also linked to many crimes, and would you agree with those criminals being allowed to use a "poverty defense" in court? Didn't think so."

It's always tricky to sort out the responsibilities of the individual from the responsibilities of the collective; holding someone responsible for what they've done shouldn't mean ignoring the influence that their environment may have had on them. So, in this case: no, I don't think a criminal should be able to mount a "poverty defense," but I do think that a huge amount of the crime in our society emerges out of poverty, and that if there were overall less poverty and more opportunity, there would also be less crime; I don't think that's a very controversial or quarrelsome position to hold...

I'm not saying that everyone should be delivered a fancy, nutritious, tax-funded dinner by the mailman every day, but I do think that access to decent food – much like access to decent education and decent health care – is growing more and more split along class lines, and that as long as this is true, obesity will be a big issue.

@109/merula Do you have any resources for people who are trying to eat healthy food on budget? I was raised on a diet of boxed foods and I'm trying very hard to change this, but it's hard to pick up this kind of thing on your own. I would really love some help.

there are ways of going about criticizing lazy or unthinking parents without generalizing against and bashing a whole community.

http://www.violentacres.com/archives/312…

Read this.

yep people are obese. we as a society need to face the obesity epidemic head on. doctors need to be involved. the food industry as it is needs to be completely dismantled. we are being poisoned by our food for PROFIT. the only thing that matters in this country is money. millions of pre-packaged and fast food options are packed with sugar, fat, and salt to make them highly addictive. eat some. eat some more. we're eating and eating and eating. many people eat for emotional reasons and until people stop eating addictive foods and face their emotions and problems without eating them, the obesity epidemic will continue.

making fun of obese people, especially obese children, will do nothing to stop the obesity epidemic. shaming obese people will do nothing to stop the obesity epidemic. nasty comments about/toward obese people, shunning obese people, laughing at obese people, making jokes about/toward obese people, being disgusted by obese people, and walking around feeling smug and superior to obese people will do nothing to stop the obesity epidemic.

i think it's pretty evident that dan savage is an asshole. why anyone continues to care about anything he has to say is beyond me. he's just a gay fucking asshole.

Lorran: The "Looney Spoons" and "Crazy Plates" cookbooks are great for beginning cooks looking to eat healthy. The "More with Less" cookbook has a mixture of beginning and intermediate recipes, but is great for eating on a budget.

@129 you're an asshole.

@ 122, it's fascinating to me that while the medical community hasn't actually determined how many overweight people could attain and maintain a standard goal weight through healthy diet, you somehow have. You should take that comment and all of the peer-reviewed research you did to come to that conclusion and get published.

@129 I don't have fingers. I type with a pointer I hold in my mouth and type each letter individually.

Jesus. We need to stop treating junk food like a childish habit and start treating it like what it is: a substance addiction. You can't just say, "Stop doing drugs!" to poor folks in ghettos, then shake your head, point, laugh, shame, insult, when they don't. It's stupid and it's wrong.

So, amazonvera, what is the problem with American obese people that makes them special compared to other obese people? Is it all genetics? You bring up science, but just look up Hopi or Native obesity. It's well-studied. What happened to them that's made them fat? Was it genetic there; were they fat like that before? Or was it dramatic changes in activity and in diet--a diet that their genetics can't really process?

You seem to approach denying the real importance of a diet and exercise regimen or *preventing* obesity by promoting a healthy diet and an active lifestyle that might be a little more than a dance class here or there and eating whole grain bread.

@ 127 - "i think it's pretty evident that dan savage is an asshole. why anyone continues to care about anything he has to say is beyond me. he's just a gay fucking asshole."

So... why exactly do you keep reading slog and commenting, then? Just asking,

There are a bunch of annoying people in this thread who keep suggesting that there is not a definitive link between obesity and major cardiovascular morbidity. Please enjoy these 16 studies, all of which are peer-reviewed and published in top tier journals.

RGW MD.

1. Stevens, J, Cai, J, Pamuk, ER, et al. The effect of age on the association between body-mass index and mortality. N Engl J Med 1998; 338:1.
2. Calle, EE, Thun, MJ, Petrelli, JM, et al. Body-mass index and mortality in a prospective cohort of U.S. adults. N Engl J Med 1999; 341:1097.
3. Manson, JE, Willett, WC, Stampfer, MJ, et al. Body weight and mortality among women. N Engl J Med 1995; 333:677.
4. Wei, M, Kampert, JB, Barlow, CE, et al. Relationship between low cardiorespiratory fitness and mortality in normal-weight, overweight, and obese men. JAMA 1999; 282:1547.
5. Lee, CD, Blair, SN, Jackson, AS. Cardiorespiratory fitness, body composition, and all-cause and cardiovascular disease mortality in men. Am J Clin Nutr 1999; 69:373.
6. Jousilahti, P, Tuomilehto, J, Vartiainen, E, et al. Body weight, cardiovascular risk factors, and coronary mortality. 15-year follow-up of middle-aged men and women in eastern Finland. Circulation 1996; 93:1372.
7. Yan, LL, Daviglus, ML, Liu, K, et al. Midlife body mass index and hospitalization and mortality in older age. JAMA 2006; 295:190.
8. Gu, D, He, J, Duan, X, et al. Body weight and mortality among men and women in China. JAMA 2006; 295:776.
9. Adams, KF, Schatzkin, A, Harris, TB, et al. Overweight, obesity, and mortality in a large prospective cohort of persons 50 to 71 years old. N Engl J Med 2006; 355:763.
10. Jee, SH, Sull, JW, Park, J, et al. Body-mass index and mortality in Korean men and women. N Engl J Med 2006; 355:779.
11. McTigue, K, Larson, JC, Valoski, A, et al. Mortality and cardiac and vascular outcomes in extremely obese women. JAMA 2006; 296:79.
12. Freedman, DM, Ron, E, Ballard-Barbash, R, et al. Body mass index and all-cause mortality in a nationwide US cohort. Int J Obes (Lond) 2006; 30:822.
13. Price, GM, Uauy, R, Breeze, E, et al. Weight, shape, and mortality risk in older persons: elevated waist-hip ratio, not high body mass index, is associated with a greater risk of death. Am J Clin Nutr 2006; 84:449.
14. Pischon, T, Boeing, H, Hoffmann, K, et al. General and abdominal adiposity and risk of death in Europe. N Engl J Med 2008; 359:2105.
15. Prospective Studies, Collaboration, Whitlock, G, Lewington, S, et al. Body-mass index and cause-specific mortality in 900 000 adults: collaborative analyses of 57 prospective studies. Lancet 2009; 373:1083.
16. Flegal, KM, Graubard, BI, Williamson, DF, Gail, MH. Cause-specific excess deaths associated with underweight, overweight, and obesity. JAMA 2007; 298:2028.

@ 134, There's nothing special about them, why do you ask?

@ 136, as an "MD," I'm sure you understand that correlation is not causation. Those studies show correlation, and I don't see anyone denying a high rate of correlation.

@ 123 - Yet it's a position many people totally refute, especially in the US. (Some other countries have realized that socioeconomic equality lowers crime.)

My point was: if that type of defense is not allowed for petty thieves or street drug dealers, why do some people who are obese think that it's a sufficient argument to get them off the hook, i.e. they have no responsibility whatsoever concerning their condition and no one should ever, ever suggest that they do because that's MEAN. Oh my gosh.

(Obesity has consequences for society, as much as petty theft and drug use, I hope you're aware of that.)

Poverty has no causal effect on weight gain. It's correlated to it, but it doesn't cause it (otherwise almost all Africans and Asians would be obese). Hormonal problems sometimes have a causal effect, but in actual numbers, very rarely. These are non-arguments.

The solution to both problem is the same: more education, more resources, etc., etc. But just saying "it's not my fault I'm that way" does even less to solve the problem than singing sarcastic songs about it. A lot of people need a slap in the face or a kick in the butt before they do something, you know. Especially if that something is change.

And for the record: I'm into bears and chubs, so I really don't mind extra kilos. What I can't stand is that victim attitude when the problem is obviously self-inflicted. (By that I mean that I'm ONLY talking about overeaters here.)

laurelgardner @133, I don't think anyone's disagreeing that junk food can be an addiction for some people. The point of the song is, just like it'd be shitty and abusive for a crack addict to get her child addicted at age 5, it's shitty and abusive for a food addict to get her child addicted at age 5.

@110 He also pulled a citation from 3 years ago. I believe Dan specified the previous 12 months for proof that he's a raging hater of the overweight.

Actually, apropos Dan's current challenge at the top of his blog (which is closed to comments, so I assume the answers to the challenge go in this thread), I've seen a lot of accusations that he makes fun of obese people, etc. So I've been reading all the entries in this thread dated since 10 am, when he issued his challenge...

Alrighty, I have found a grand total of um... three posts referenced here... they are. I'm using blockquotes to keep things organized, not really to indicate any actual quotage, btw.

http://www.violentacres.com/archives/312…

I'm at a loss on this one. Doesn't seem to be something posted by Dan Savage, though it's certainly an example of fatphobia, yes...

Tally: 0

http://shakespearessister.blogspot.com/2…

Someone on Shakes complaining about Dan Savage... OK... let's see what s/he references...
OK, seems to be a discussion of a post by Kate Harding (http://kateharding.net/2008/01/11/open-f…) that Dan referenced.

Huh. I'm going around in circles here... The Shakes article quotes snippets from Dan's article but doesn't seem to link to it directly (and it appears it might not have been on Slog). But let's assume that it was a fatphobic post.

Tally so far: 1

And then we have:
http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/01/obes…

Aha! OK. Um. You know. It's not incendiary. It doesn't make fun of obese people. It says this: "No, you certainly can’t say that you’ll lose weight if you stop eating fast food, get more exercise, and eat more vegetables. It’s true, of course, but you’re not allowed to say it." Is that making fun of fat people? Can we disagree with someone without being accused of making fun of them?

Maybe the earlier part: "So says 'health economist' Eric Finkelstein in his new book The Fattening of America, which argues that affluence and advanced medical care leads some people—a majority in the USA, it seems—to choose obesity. You can read the article here, you can find the fat activist/acceptance types fuming here."

Well, he's clearly phrased it to indicate he disagrees with it. But I gotta say, disagreeing with someone isn't de facto mocking them or making fun of them or whatever. If you're bent out of shape over being told that you're "fuming" about something or that you're called a quote-unquote health economist is being mocked, well then I'll add it to the tally.

Tally so far: 2

But wait. In looking at the last link there, I see that's what Shakes was quoting. So the final tally is...

*drumroll* (hope I did it right, since I can't hear it)

One.

So please tell me, y'all, what part of that is continued, ongoing, and merciless bullying of fat people?

You know what? Excepting various medical issues, "No, you certainly can’t say that you’ll lose weight if you stop eating fast food, get more exercise, and eat more vegetables. It’s true, of course, but you’re not allowed to say it." is a perfectly valid opinion to hold, and moreover, is true for the majority of people out there.

To be honest, there's far more mocking and bullying of fat people coming from commenters here than coming from Dan.

Now, can we return to our regularly scheduled SlogFest?

...oh wait...

Actually Amazonvera, many of these studies do purport or attempt to show causation. Clearly you didn't read any of them.

Please allow me to state this as bluntly as possible. Being fat, or worse, obese, or even worse, super-obese (an actual medical term I sadly have to use far too frequently) is unhealthy, and makes you unhealthier.

Can it not simply be accepted a priori as the most common sense idea in the world, that if you carry 200 pounds of extra weight, that that is going to cause joint problems (osteoarthritis)? Is that not the most obvious, insanely easy fact to comprehend? If a bridge is meant to carry loads of 5 tons but it regularly carries loads of 12, do you not think this is problematic?

Walk a mile in a person's shoes before you judge them. Bullying the parents of fat children is bullying the kids. The children hear that and they feel guilty for the way they are. I was a 300+ pound pre-teen and I've only gotten fatter since then. Why haven't I lost the weight? Because I'm a happy person. I don't dread my obesity, I celebrate it. Just like somebody who has a chiseled body stands out in a crowd of weak bellied sheep, I stand out as a giant. I've had people tell me they looked at fat people as less than human cattle... and I made them see more. I've been told by immediate family members, in all sincerity, to use crack cocaine/crystal meth as a diet aid... but I chose donuts. And every day, I'm told by strangers that I am going to die young. Thanks for that, I totes needed a reminder.

Society puts a heavy guilt on the fat. Then there are empires built around fatty foods. Giant signs in the sky with cheeseburgers on them. All people are different, it is easier for certain people to stay thin then it is for others to just keep from being morbidly obese. For you BODY NAZIS to judge everyone else is wrong. IF YOU REALLY CARE ABOUT THE EPIDEMIC, do something positive to thwart it. Casting blame on a parent is harsh and doesn't help the matter. Claiming giving a donut to a fat kid is child abuse may seem just to you, but try keeping a donut from a kid who craves the sweet. When the average child enjoys a donut, it's a classic treat. When a fat kid enjoys a donut, it's a monstrosity of health.

THAT'S FUCKED.

"purport or attempt to show" =/= "proves," "confirms," "establishes." I can purport or attempt to show all day that a correlation I find in a lot of cases is the same as causation, but that won't make it so.

Being fat does not make you unhealthy. Period. Many fat people live in excellent health for long, happy lives (just as many thin people have heart attacks and die before their children are grown). They are not unicorns or fairies or anthropomorphized bunnies that bring children chocolate. They're real people.

If you are 200 lbs overweight and don't have some other seriously compensating muscle development, etc., yeah, you'll probably have joint problems. Most fat people aren't anything near 200 lbs overweight, though, and that still wouldn't address how they got fat, what they ate, or how much less they could weigh if they ate differently. And I'm looking forward to hearing all about how you direct similar amounts of outraged energy toward people who don't get enough calcium, putting them at risk of development of and death from osteoporosis, a much, much more common issue than joint problems in people who are 200 lbs. overweight.

@ 142, for one thing, you're skipping a pretty obvious example that's been mentioned at length in the comments. I'll give to think about that one.

For another, I hope you're also keeping a running log about the "hundreds" of anti-gay and racist remarks from the past year that Dan needs to supply so we can determine if rightwing nutters actually bully anyone to Dan's own standard, because apparently there's a 200 incidents per annum quota now.

amazonvera, you've asked people to provide evidence and then escape under the claim that correlation does not imply causation without actually reading the studies. While it is true that there is no definitive causative factor, the suspicion is and always has been diet and activity. I also hold out for environment in general being a factor.

But then you make unqualified claims like the following: "Being fat does not make you unhealthy. Period. Many fat people live in excellent health for long, happy lives (just as many thin people have heart attacks and die before their children are grown)." Where's the field of literature and studies you have to prove this? Have there been studies like this performed surveying obese people at end-of-life? It's an interesting claim that diet cannot cause obesity while labs are making a lot of money selling DIO models to study obesity!

Also, you haven't really answered my question about cultural differences wrt obesity. Why has creeping acceptance of American diet caused Natives to become the most obese population on the planet and why are there more obese people in the US than Asia or France?

A study is never going to be as accurate as a personal experience. A personal experience will never be as convincing to the masses as a study. Go ahead and think what you want to think. At the end of the day, if it were so easy to lose the weight, wouldn't more people be thin?

You can't make somebody lose weight. You can make their life better by not casting guilt and death over their already heavy minds.

Billy: amazonvera was initially the one claiming that she had scientific evidence on her side. You're right though. We're all deluded by our personal experience. Maybe more Biggest Loser and less science is what we need.

Also,

"Claiming giving a donut to a fat kid is child abuse may seem just to you, but try keeping a donut from a kid who craves the sweet"

That's fucking called parenting, Billy! Doing the hard stuff, like telling the kid not to eat donuts is the function of the grown-ups in the relationship.

Dan, you're not mean to fat people. God, why the hell is everyone so sensitive? Can't Dan post something asking parents not to kill their kids with junk food without having everyone jump down his throat?

@ 147 Here's one, though if you don't have a journal membership, You'll only be able to see the abstract, including the statement "approximately 30% of obese individuals maintain healthy cardiometabolic profiles": http://journals.lww.com/co-clinicalnutri…

Again, though, I'm really surprised that some of you are passing yourselves off as informed people about this topic when you need links for some pretty basic concepts. Also, please add "suspicion" to the list of words that don't mean "proof" or "causation." Are you serious with this?

Sorry, you asked what made Americans special and said nothing about how or in what way. To answer, no one knows. There are a lot of hypothesis about diet (subsidizing corn syrup can't be helping), genetics (we're pretty much an entire nation spawned from peasant laborers siphoned off from other national populations who had to thrive when malnourished until their early deaths), and social sciences (that whole only-industrialized-nation-without-universal-healthcare thing). Like the causes of obesity anywhere, I'm sure it's a combination of all of the above depending on the individual.

Not one person has said that diet can't cause obesity. What the fuck are you talking about?

"Being fat does not make you unhealthy. Period. Many fat people live in excellent health for long, happy lives (just as many thin people have heart attacks and die before their children are grown). They are not unicorns or fairies or anthropomorphized bunnies that bring children chocolate. They're real people. "

Let's change a few words-

[Having cancer] does not make you unhealthy. Period. Many [people with cancer] live in excellent health for long, happy lives (just as many [people without cancer] have heart attacks and die before their children are grown). They are not unicorns or fairies or anthropomorphized bunnies that bring children chocolate. They're real people.

This statement is just as ridiculous as your first one. Arguing that the existence of some fat people without medical problems (just as there are some people living with cancer without any other problems or effects from it) is not a convincing or meaningful argument, when the overwhelming majority of people who are fat (or who have cancer) do have significant morbidity and mortality.

And as far as this statement?

"And I'm looking forward to hearing all about how you direct similar amounts of outraged energy toward people who don't get enough calcium, putting them at risk of development of and death from osteoporosis, a much, much more common issue than joint problems in people who are 200 lbs. overweight."

I don't direct outraged energy towards fat people. I direct it towards willfully ignorant people, like you. I do not harangue patients for weight loss, as I know simply telling someone to lose weight is in no way effective. If they want to lose weight, and are motivated to do so, I am happy to provide counseling on exercise and nutrition. But fat people don't get me riled up like this. People like you, who deny basic, commonsense science do.

Wow. Current Opinion in Clinical Nutrition and Metabolic Care. Sounds like the next JAMA or Lancet.

Snide remarks about your journal's pedigree aside, I find it amusing how you left out this sentence from the conclusion:

"Whether these individuals remain at risk for the host of other obesity-related conditions such as certain cancers, sleep disorders, reproductive problems, and musculoskeletal disorders is likely but has not been investigated."

151: "What the fuck are you talking about?" Nice way to raise the discourse. Just kidding. I was addressing this:

"if you still think that weight is universally determined by calories in vs. calories out and that health issues only cause a 6% body weight differential, then I think you need to re-read all of that material because some really basic facts have either been distorted or never sank in in the first place."

Which is totally absurd. Btw, who said weight is *universally* determined by calories consumed vs. calories expended?

You treat your view point as if it is a self-evident truth backed up by "the leading experts in the field." But it's not.

I have no patience whatsoever for fat apologists, but come ON, Dan. If you want people to take your "It Gets Better" movement seriously and stop bullying gay kids, you have to use better judgment when choosing your public posts.

True, this song is obviously meant for adults and is directed (mostly) towards irresponsible adults, but by posting it you send a clear message that you think making fun of fat people is o.k. A message that no doubt filters down to kids and (in some small way) perpetuates the bullying of fat kids. If someone posted a song titled "Gay Men Are Gross Because of That Up-The-Butt Thing" and said, "Every time I read something about gay men this song starts playing in my head. Yes, it's harsh, brutal even, very nearly bullying. But... um... you gotta admit that there's a grain of poop or two of truth to it." would you be o.k. with that?

I'm saying this as a victim of bullying and a staunch supporter of the It Gets Better Project. If you want people who don't already agree with you to take your anti-bullying message of LGBT youth seriously, you can't appear to endorse name-calling and harassment of fat people, regardless of how they got that way.

@dirac, I understand the concept of parenting. It's what lets some people beat their children and others ship them off to boarding schools. It's also what lets fat kids have a fucking donut. I will give a fat kid a donut 100% of the time.

I'm not a physician. I don't make it my job to get fat people thin. I make it my job to make fat people happy. Give them the power of self confidence. The power of looking beautiful or feeling good about themselves despite being a fucking lardo.

If you aren't a physician, I suggest you do the same.

@128/Canadian Nurse, Thanks so much! I bought Looney Spoons ($5 used including shipping on Amazon! Woo woo!) and I'll take a look at the other two.

Mr Savage - Keep up the message! I used to own several fast food restaurants & made a very nice living at it, too - although it did require long days. I sold my stores for two reasons. I was about to become a father & wanted to stay home with my kids. But, additionally, I couldn't take the frustration of watching parents (usually dads - I found moms to be much stricter on sizing & product choices) buy large cookie dough Blizzards for their kids & combining that with an order of onion rings & ranch dressing for dipping. Over a five year period, I watched many, many kids become obese. There's nothing wrong with the occasional ice cream treat & only a parental bully would favor a blanket denial of a DQ product. But, 8 year olds don't need 21ozs. of cookie dough blizzard which comes in at over 1000 calories. I've been on the front lines of this battle & have seen the walking wounded, kids literally so overweight they're out of breath walking from the parking lot to the restaurant counter. Don't stop your message - you literally might save a kid's life through this messaging, just as you may with your It Gets Better project.

@155 really nailed it. The issue at hand is not the gritty details of how the US got fat, whether it should lose weight, or the best way to do so--a lot of the commenters here are being sidetracked with debating this pointless clutter. It's whether an anti-bullying activist can be taken seriously when he exhibits the exact same bigoted mentality he criticizes (see: hypocrisy).

Either it's okay to make fun of teased and persecuted groups (gay fat trans black indian handicapped whatever) and drive them to suicide, or it's not okay to make fun of them and drive them to suicide. You can't have this cake both ways.

You can't argue that expressing anti-fat biases and engaging in fat-shaming doesn't make you into the same ugly bigot we see when we look at dumbass Christians criticizing gays for being sinful and wrong. How can you be in such denial regarding the OBVIOUS parallels being drawn between yourself and anti-gay bigots?

In my earlier post, I specified that you have derided both fat and trans people. You can't argue against that. I called out every single instance of your QUITE RECENT trans-hate, until you stopped (thank god). If you can't rid yourself of these ugly biases (and I don't purport to change what's inside your head, nor do I really care) then just keep your mouth shut. Give the appearance of being all-inclusive, even if you really are not.

Stick to what you're good at. For the sake of fuck, if you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all. Unless it's about Fred Phelps. Fuck that guy.

Whether you like it or not (and I'm sure you do), you have become a HIGHLY VISIBLE mouthpiece for the LGBT movement in America. You are probably the most visible spokesperson for any persecuted minority right now. Before you die, you will probably be more famous than MLK Jr. That is a HUGE FARKING RESPONSIBILITY. Please take it seriously.

I may come off overly strong here; it is because I care so deeply about your potential to help people. Don't hurt people at the same time just because they weren't born a member of your pet cause. I would be similarly outraged if you were hating on any persecuted minority group, not just transfolk and fatties.

Kids look up to you. When skinny gay kids (and adult trolls contained herein) read what you say about fat people and trans people, they internalize that it's okay to make fun of those groups. If trans kids or fat gay kids (or hell, fat trans kids) read what you're saying, they are more likely to KILL THEMSELVES.

So lie to save a life, even if you're holding back your gag reflex... just like you expect Christians to do when they see a married male couple holding hands, kissing in public, or filling out a health insurance application together.

Rach31 THANK YOU!

Why does this issue always have to be discussed in extremes? Yes, there are overweight people who eat right, exercise, and remain overweight (I used to be one of them). However, I SINCERELY doubt that the many obese children I see at fast food places are being fed nothing but fresh green veggies and whole wheat the other 364 days a year. Being chubby is one thing; hell, in America, being chubby, not skinny, is the new "normal". Being medically obese is an entirely different thing, and people can tell the difference. When a child is too large to fit in any high chairs or car seats that are made, THERE IS A PROBLEM. And it's not with their genetics. It's with their parents.

Speaking as someone who works with young adults, I can testify that very, very, very few parents are giving their children healthy meals, whether those children are fat or thin. But saying that the diets of an 85 lb twelve-year-old and a 250 lb twelve-year-old could be identical for all I know is just ridiculous. Genetics PREDISPOSE you towards a certain body type, in the same way that genetics predispose you towards certain cancers or other diseases like diabetes. I have a long history of diabetes in my family, but I can hopefully prevent getting it myself by exercising, eating right, and getting semi-regular blood tests to check my insulin levels. What I can't do is throw my hands up and go "oh well, I guess I'm doomed to be a diabetic!"

People using the genetics arguement are doing exactly that. Your genetics can make it hard to lose weight and easy to gain weight, but they don't FORCE you into obesity. Giving up and resigning yourself and all of your children to lifelong obesity is absolutely the wrong thing to do. Having a genetic history of obesity is a reason to work harder to stay in shape, not to work less or give up.

Also, our whole culture of "my child is a special little snowflake princess who needs to be coddled by EVERYONE" is a huge factor. When I was a child, my parents cooked vegetables for every meal and if I didn't clear my plate, I wasn't allowed to leave the table. These days, parents aren't willing to make their children eat things they don't like, and of course fast food and prepared foods taste better than vegetables and whole wheat.

I worked for a while at a daycare center preparing lunches, and parents would give LISTS to us of things their children would eat. Not things that their children were allergic to, or that made them sick, or even things they just didn't like. Lists of food that their children WOULD eat, and it was unacceptable to even think of giving their children anything that wasn't on the list. Seriously. They usually went something like, "My sweet Sarah is a picky eater. :) She will only eat easy mac, peanut butter and jelly on white bread (no crust), and extra cheese pizza (no other toppings)". This is COMMON.

When I was a child, if I was eating somewhere besides home, I was expected to clean my plate without complaint, and compliment whoever cooked it even if I hated it. The only excuse for not eating something was if it made me physically ill. I was a picky eater, but I was not allowed to ask for special accomodation, because it was rude and made extra work for whoever was cooking. The rule was, until I was old enough to cook my own meals, I would eat whatever was put in front of me unless it made me sick. Nowadays parents gasp in horror at the very idea and it's almost considered child abuse. If parents would stop coddling their children so much and make them eat the healthiest food they can afford, and make them join a sport (or just go swimming with them, or walking with them, or ANYTHING) being bullied over childhood obesity wouldn't be an issue because children wouldn't be obese.

Childhood obesity is the "big news" of the day because it's NEW. Twenty years ago it was extremely rare for children to be medically obese. Some were overweight, yes, and they did get teased, but no one was so huge that they couldn't fit into the chairs in the lunch room. If you'd suggested back then that the lone 250 lb kid maybe had a healthy diet at home you'd be laughed at. Fat isn't magnetically attracted to your body; it's not magic. When parents are fat, they need to look at themselves, and realize that their children, too, may be fat. Then they need to work HARDER, not LESS, to make sure their kids eat as healthy as possible and get as much exercise as possible (and see a doctor as often as possible). Being genetically predisposed towards obesity is not a good excuse to give up all effort to stay at a reasonable weight.

Also, I wanted to add that I think the prevalance of pop is one of the largest contributors (if not the single largest contributor) to obesity, especially in children. As soon as a baby is no longer on breast milk/formula, parents give their children pop as a staple of every meal. No more milk, no juice, no water. Pop is the go-to beverage for everything. The MAJORITY of American parents give their kids as much pop as they want as soon as they're old enough to drink out of a sippy cup. Not only does this encourage obesity, but it contributes to a TON of other problems, like caffeine addition, hyperactivity (making parenting harder and even possibly leading to an incorrect diagnosis of ADD or ADHD), and terrible, painful dental problems.

I was never given pop as a child, not even as a treat, and as a result, I never gained a taste for it (nor did any of my siblings). Also, all of us have excellent dental health and have never had a cavity, root canal, or any procedure besides braces and routine cleanings done in our lives.

As far as I'm concerned, giving your child pop as anything other than an occasional treat IS abusive. Not only is it horrible for their health AND weight, you're actually causing them physical pain in the long run from cavities, tooth aches, and infections.

As a personal disclaimer: Much of my evidence is anecdotal and should not be taken as proof that everyone everywhere is exactly the same. I'm a professional counselor for children, but not a researcher, scientist, or doctor. However, if you want to find out more about the harmful effects of pop, just fucking google it.

156 - the emphasis on short term happiness (appeasement?!) does not seem a sustainable basis for child rearing. I'm really happy after a couple of pints of local cider but I know, and I've been educated, that there are other, healthier ways to be happy. The more you "comfort" eat, which is what eating to be happy is, the more it becomes about all the wrong chemical reactions and borderline addiction. My OH carries a lot of extra weight, I like the reaction I get from him when I buy him chocolate with the groceries, which he loves and demolishes in vast quantities when he can, but he and I know that it's something that has to be rationed, however happy it makes both of us in the moment.

Saying no to kids now and again seems to be something we a society have forgotten how to do, and we're already seeing massive repercussions.

"purport or attempt to show" =/= "proves," "confirms," "establishes." I can purport or attempt to show all day that a correlation I find in a lot of cases is the same as causation, but that won't make it so.

————

Amazonvera, you clearly no nothing of science, or else you'd understand that research has never proven a thing. Ever. Nor will it ever, because it can't.

* know nothing.

Jeesh. Too early.

@139/Ricardo -

What we're saying is actually fairly similar, I think, but still – a couple things:

"Poverty has no causal effect on weight gain. It's correlated to it, but it doesn't cause it (otherwise almost all Africans and Asians would be obese)."

That's a pretty unfair, strawman-style argument: no one's claiming that having less money in your pocket magically makes you fat. What I'm saying is that right now, in the US (I really can't speak for other countries), there are many people who need to support families on not much money (and often not much time); there's an abundance of high-calorie, low-nutrient food for sale; and, more-nutritious food is often relatively expensive or otherwise hard to obtain. That's how poverty leads to obesity (at this point in time, in this country).

"The solution to both problem is the same: more education, more resources, etc., etc. But just saying "it's not my fault I'm that way" does even less to solve the problem than singing sarcastic songs about it. A lot of people need a slap in the face or a kick in the butt before they do something, you know. Especially if that something is change."

All true, but a kick in the butt won't do much good if the resources aren't there. Learning about how to cook with fresh vegetables and lean meats won't do anything for you if you can't get fresh vegetables or lean meats.

This seems like a good thread to point out that there's a bill working it's way through the state House right now that would eliminate the requirement that elementary kids get 30 minutes of physical activity a day.

http://apps.leg.wa.gov/billinfo/summary.…

At first look it doesn't seem to have a single democrat among the 20 or so cosponsors, so it may not get far, but it's still surprising to see an idea like that come up in these days.

@ 168 - I was just using poverty as an example of the correlated factors that some people, even here in this thread, use as an excuse AS IF THEY WERE causal factors. If it's not poverty, it's genetics. If it's not genetics, it's lack of availability. At one point this has to stop... if what you care about is your health and not your wounded ego.

Of course, it can be more difficult to find good food products, but in any sizeable city, that difficulty is more often than not limited to going a bit further than the supermarket (but that's also an opportunity to WALK and you should take it... if what you care about is your health and not your wounded ego).

Healthy food is expensive? Start by removing all ice cream, soft drinks, chips and other junk from the shopping basket, see how much money you've get left and try to work with that. I've done it all my life (because I never had much money) and it's not that difficult. And remember: appropriately reduced portions cost less than the mountains of food you might be used to ingest.

Genetics? Hormones? In my entire life, I've met ONE person who actually has such a problem (thyroid), and she's got thick hips and legs. She's definitely NOT obese.

I understand how all the "peripherical" factors that you describe favour weight gain, but generally only for those who refuse to take their life and health into their own hands and do something about it. And yes, that might require an EFFORT, but it's not impossible if what you care about is your health and not your wounded ego. Things like getting informed, looking for sources of healthier food, making a realistic budget and accepting that they'll have to do without their treats.

That's why those people who, for whatever reason, won't make that effort, need a kick in the butt : because they'll never get to realize that it's all up to them unless you give them that kick in the butt and take away all their stupid excuses. The kick is not the solution. The kick is the means to start them on their way to finding their own solution instead of blaming every other factor, which leads to absolutely nothing positive.

And yes, the results may vary according to the individual, but any effort towards a healthier lifestyle is better than none, however relevant your excuses seem to you when you're trying to protect your wounded ego.

159 is an important comment.

If you are obese, and want to stay that way, neither I nor anyone else has the right to judge you for that. It's your body, and only you get to choose how to treat your body. But it's immoral and borderline abusive to force those choices on your children. Raise your children with a healthy diet, even if they hate healthy foods, and do some kind of exercise with them. Take them to see doctors and/or nutritionists so they can get a healthy start on life and avoid being bullied for being obese.

That's what the song is about: parents forcing their unhealthy choices on children who are too young and uniformed to make their own choices. When obesity runs in your family, you can resign yourself to stayng obese if you so desire, but doing nothing to prevent your child from the same problem is not right.

Children are too young to make good choices about exercise, food, and the way they want their body to look. Thus, the responsibility for that falls on the parents. Thus, childhood obesity is at least 90% the fault of the parents (though some blame undoubtedly lies with the quality of food these days, vending machines, and school lunches).

"Don't lose your edge, Dan. Don't bow down to sanctimony and cleanse your thoughts and your blog of anything and everything that might stir controversy, or might be uncomfortable, or that might hurt somebody's feelings."

This is not what I'm demanding of Dan. I'm demanding that a public figure of a minority rights movement refrain from driving fat kids or trans kids (or any other minority group) to suicide.

Do you not see the difference?

It is not edgy, hardcore, or cool when a public figure makes fun of fat people. It is damaging, and it leads to increased bullying by the millions of people who emulate him. It leads to the impression that he's trying to elevate his minority group by dint of putting down another minority group, rather than because his minority group should have equal rights to the majority. But eventually the minorities who are doing this, with their shitty exclusive attitudes, are going to run out of other minorities to take the bottom rung in society. What happens then?

You, or Dan, can say "who gives a fuck about fatties? that's not what we're here for." Well, I thought we were here to stop the bullying which leads to teens who feel "othered" killing themselves. Neh?

I'm not saying Dan has to be a fat advocate, or a trans advocate. I'm saying he has to be NEUTRAL on topics that have NO FUCKING RELEVANCE to his pet topic. With great power comes... all over your face? You know the line.

@31: "How can anyone live without food for 3-4 months and not lose weight?"

No one can. Was your MIL fed intravenously or something?

If you are obese, and want to stay that way, neither I nor anyone else has the right to judge you for that. It's your body, and only you get to choose how to treat your body.

Bull - how other people treat their bodies affects me directly through the cost of my insurance premiums.

@175 are you going to start making fun of people born with heart defects, then? Mentally retarded folks? They cost way more in premiums than a fatty, who is more likely to die after they stop paying premiums but before you, cutting their end of life costs significantly. That's the message I'm getting based on the criteria you've provided.

You don't have to have lots of recent comments about fat people for your bullying to seem relentless. You make your snide comments whenever the subject remotely comes up, and you've never taken them back, so they're always still in effect. Whenever I think about weight, I know that Dan Savage (whose opinions I normally respect) is still a hater, whether he specifically reminded me recently or not.

Every now and then, you draw attention to your anti-fatty views, just to make sure people know that you haven't changed your mind. So whenever you mention anything about weight, it's as if you're saying cruel things again. I've seen plenty of girl-bullies do that, and girly bullying is still bullying.

I respect you, and I know that you're committed to schools where all kids feel safe (even kids that some people find squicky), so it sucks when you act like a girly bully and dilute your most important message.

I also suspect you're just trying to be an asshole, so rest assured, you'll still be an asshole either way. Please just admit that yes, fat squicks you out, but that you're moving on -- and then actually *stay* moved on -- so that you can be the asshole we know and love without being a hypocrite, too.

@170 (and others) -

I understand that many obese (or otherwise unhealthy) people have it well within their means to live healthier lives, and essentially choose not to. But, like I said before – obesity and poor nutrition are a HUGE problem for this country right now, and I think that has a lot more to do with socioeconomic factors than it does with some sort of massive, simultaneous failure of willpower.

So, a couple outside sources. First, a New York Times article about a study on price disparities between more and less nutritious foods:

http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/12/05…

Some choice bits:

"The survey found that higher-calorie, energy-dense foods are the better bargain for cash-strapped shoppers. Energy-dense munchies cost on average $1.76 per 1,000 calories, compared with $18.16 per 1,000 calories for low-energy but nutritious foods."

"“If you have $3 to feed yourself, your choices gravitate toward foods which give you the most calories per dollar,’’ said [lead author] Dr. Drewnowski. “Not only are the empty calories cheaper, but the healthy foods are becoming more and more expensive. Vegetables and fruits are rapidly becoming luxury goods.”"

And then there's the concept of the "food desert" – an area where there's a severe lack of nutritious food available. From the Wikipedia page on food deserts:

"Research by Morland et al, found that areas with a majority of convenience stores have a higher prevalence of overweight and obese individuals, compared to areas with only supermarkets (Morland 42). Fast food restaurants are disproportionately placed in low-income and minority neighborhoods, and are often the closest and cheapest food options (USDA). “People living in the poorest SES areas have 2.5 times the exposure to fast-food restaurants as those living in the wealthiest areas” (Yeh, 2006). The lack of adequate food sources and limited transportation available to low-income communities are contributing factors to malnutrition among those living in low SES neighborhoods (Morland, 2002)."

So, like I've been saying – if we're gonna seriously address the problem of poor nutrition in this country, we have to seriously look at some of the root causes: I think that a lack of access to healthy foods is a much bigger issue than individual ignorance or laziness.

This isn't a civil rights issue, it's a health issue. Obesity is harmful not because it is unattractive but because it endangers peoples lives.

Equating Dan's criticism of parents for abusing their kids with food to "picking on obese children" is detrimental to the physical and mental health of these kids.

Genetics leads some to gain/lose weight easier than others, but it doesn't food in their mouths against their will.

I work with far too many teenagers who have BMIs well over 40, many have diabetes, high blood pressure and other devastating diseases as a direct result of their morbid obesity. All of them have extremely complicated pregnancies which endanger their lives and the lives of their babies.

By defending fatness as a right or lifestyle choice is enabling growing numbers of people to mortally hurt themselves.

I have numerous coworkers in their forties and fifties who are barely able to walk due to their weight and the destruction of their hips and knees from their uncontrolled consumption. They will soon be in nursing homes unable to rise from their bed and will have to sit in their own piss and shit until a healthcare team can wheel in the hydraulic lift to raise them enough or just roll them over so that someone can wash their ass. They'll endure this humiliating reality for 20 years until pneumonia, infected bedsores, urinary tract infections which spread to blood infections, strokes, heart attacks, endometrial cancers and a host of other fat-related morbidities combine to kill them slowly.

are you going to start making fun of people born with heart defects, then? Mentally retarded folks?

I hate to have to point out the painfully obvious - only a small percentage people are overweight/obese through no actions of their own. For the rest it is a combination of their actions and their socioeconomic position.

I don't think this justifies shaming these people but I do think that in our coming era of universal healthcare it means everyone should make an effort to be healthy and society should enable that as much as possible.

@ 178 - I totally agree with you on the need to change the whole food distribution system, but my point is that nothing is going to change for the concerned individuals and their families if they don't admit that they also have to make an effort.

Bad transportation? There are cheap bicycles on sale everywhere. Used (who cares?). I have a one-speed, pedal break bike. Great exercise, it gets me everywhere faster than the bus, and it cost me a fraction of my yearly public transport expenses (before I had the bike). And I can't say I live in a bike-friendly city either.

High prevalence of fast-food outlets? Nobody forces you to go in. You can walk a bit further. And a fast food meal will leave you hungry for another one in a couple of hours, so why not invest a little bit more to get a healthy and satisfying meal that will, in the end, help you SAVE money?

That's where "individual ignorance or laziness" comes into play, and we simply cannot deny its incidence on obesity.
There are a lot of decisions that you can make easily to modify your habits. The information is available on the Internet, which is FREE in many public libraries. I'm not saying everyone should become a vegetarian or strive for perfectly healthy eating habits, but everyone has to make a goddamn effort.

In the end, it comes to this: It's your body; how do you want to feel? The system may carry a large part of the blame, but solely blaming the system is not going to help you as an individual.

And if you're in charge of a family's eating habits, well, giving them the best food possible and teaching them the best eating habits possible is one of the responsibilities you signed up for when you decided to have the babies. You want them to live a long and happy life, don't you? Do something about it.

@181 I was going with the single criterion you posited. If you have more than one, you should say so (at the risk of purposely being taken literally at your word).

@181 I was going with the single criterion you posited. If you have more than one, you should say so (at the risk of purposely being taken literally at your word).

This means, in simple English, that costing more in health care premiums is not necessary or sufficient for a health condition to be mockable.

I'm just going to put it out there that it irritates me when people conflate being overweight with being obese. You know, like when someone says something like, "The obesity epidemic in our country is resulting in rising health costs," and some other person response, "How dare you! There are lots of healthy people who are classified as 'overweight.'"

Say it with me now: "Overweight" is not the same as "obese."

For shits and grins I came back to this to see if the rants were still flying since I lost interest on Friday. Oh, man!

Holy Doughnuts, Dan, you've been given a cross to bear for all repressed minorities (are obese people minorities in the US?).

Last one out get the light!

I'm the opposite of Dan. My entire family is skinny and eats like fat people, I rarely exercise and eat like a trucker yet remain hopelessly twinky. Because of this I've always felt intensely guilty about saying anything critical of fat people, because of being privileged, but as long as government funded healthcare is taking care of diabetics and people with heart disease, someone needs to, and thanks Dan for doing it in a way that is actually pretty compassionate and honest.

The vast majority of overweight and obese people are so because they eat poorly. People will in one sitting eat almost an entire day's worth of calories in a single meal. Learning to eat properly after a lifetime of bad habits isn't easy. So many people gain the weight back because they don't make permanent changes to their diets. They go on some extreme weight loss kick, eating in a way that they cannot maintain in the long term. In there minds, they want to lose 50 lbs in a month, and then go back to eating as they did before the diet. Too many people seem to think that they're missing something important in life if they can't eat that footlong meatball sub with cheese, with jumbo fries, an extra large soda, and a cake for desert. So of course they're going to fail. You have to relearn how to eat, and eat properly for the REST OF YOUR LIFE.

You don't fat bash so much as you clearly think fat people are disgusting. That coupled with a position of authority creates a "tone" to your fat dislike and people get fat bashing.

I will try to dig those slog entries up at home later, but it was just your clear disgust of fatties.

@140 - I think that's a WEE bit different. Everyone has to eat, not everyone has to do drugs. Kids are going to eat the way their parents do.

Honestly, I'd just like to see a little bit less chalked up in the "personal responsibility" category when it comes to the obesity epidemic and a little more chalked up in the "social responsibility" category. I don't believe Americans have an obesity problem because we're just essentially more weak-willed individuals. And I'd like to believe that maybe people can be adults about this and treat human beings with respect and compassion on this issue even while recognizing that it's reversible. There's just no reason for the vitriole and it doesn't fucking help.

Dan, your facts are fine, but your approach is shit. You are not helping.

If I ever find myself feeling prone to being judgmental, I remember a study that DAN ACTUALLY POSTED (and then, seemingly, forgot about) indicating that higher obesity in expectant mothers results in children born whose brains actually have a higher satiety point, meaning they have to eat more to feel full.

That should be a lesson to all of us. Not necessarily just the study results themselves, but the very idea that some brains just need more food intake to feel full. It's all very well to applaud yourself if you're thin, but if you can eat a reasonable amount and feel full? You're lucky. How would you like to go through life never ever feeling like you'd had enough to eat? Could you REALLY do it? If not, quit being an asshole.

@187 - You have a funny definition of "compassionate," friend.