You would think Hannah Murphy Winter, as the editor of this online blog, would at least have a passing familiarity with the 1st Amendment.

"When reached for comment, the Seattle Parks and Recreation said that Mayday USA had first applied for a permit for a street location through the Office of Economic Development. Their first request to Seattle Parks and Recreation, the mayor’s office said, was for Cal Anderson. “We are required to enable the expression of free speech throughout the parks system,” they wrote. “As the park was available and met the size and logistical needs for the event requested, the permit was granted.”

Had the city denied the request the city would have been sued. Denying a permit based on the content of the speech would have lost in any District Court, lost at the 9th Circuit, and the ultimate Supreme Court decision would have been 9-0 in favor of MaydayUSA.

Rather than stage a counter-protest (which is exactly what MaydaUSA was hoping for), perhaps it would have been better to just ignore them.

SPD is a terrorist organization.

@1 is correct. They had a right to be there. People had a right to protest sans violence.

Given all of their stated concern for children, did anyone tell them Capitol Hill may well be the residential neighborhood in the entire state with the lowest per-capita number of children? Not many children to save, there! Why, it sounds like there may have been some other reason for them to have chosen Cal Anderson Park!

Video showed antifa type people throwing objects at cops and shoving cops. Sorry but that’s how you get arrested.

Letter Capitol Hill Pride sent May 21st to Seattle Mayor, City Council, City Atty and Chief of Police:
Dear City of Seattle,
It has come to our attention and to the public again the city of Seattle has permitted May Day USA for Cal Anderson Park for Sat. May 24th. We are extremely alarmed that you would permit a known alt-right hate group May Day USA to use and incite their "message" in Cal Anderson Park in the heart of Seattle's LGBTQAI community.
This is a direct contradiction to the city's policy to create safe public parks and we ask that you revoke this permit immediately.
It is alarming this group's background was not reviewed and permitted given their website and obvious campaign whereas excuses of "free speech" and religion don't apply when these organizations blatantly promote exclusion and have a history of incitement and violence aligning and inviting militia groups. I.E. 2017 Immigration march Westlake Proud Boys, Lynnwood 2023 Sovereign Women and 3% militia.

To allow this group a permit is incredibly irresponsible to the community, a liability to the city with the risk of conflict with our limited police resources and your commitment to uphold diversity.
but is also hugely insulting to the LGBTQAI and Transgender community.
Again, we ask you to revoke this permit and uphold your committment to keeping Seattle a safe community.
We look forward to your public announcement on this issue.

Rather than the vagrants, druggies and weideros that usually take over CA park? I thought the stranger loved a good old fashion protest and demo?

"That was, most likely, the plan: to bring loud, boisterous, joyous hate speech into progressive areas as a media stunt. Worst case, they can show good, Christian “principled struggle,” bringing the Word to the heathens. Best case, they get a reaction out of Seattle, and can claim that the Christian right is being attacked by “far left trangender radical leftists.””

Sounds pretty bad! If only you had felt the same way when Sawant went to Durkan's house, since that's way worse than protesting in a public park.

@6 So Capitol Hill Pride was asking the city to deny this permit based on the content of the speech?

Whoa.

There is not a Federal District Judge in the entire country who won't rule that as a violation of free speech rights. There is also not an Appelate Justice in the country who would overturn the District Judge. And If the Supreme Court even deigned to hear the case they would decide 9-0 against the City. Heck Sonya Sotomayer would probably right the opinion slapping down the city's attempt to squash free speech rights.

C'mon man. Get your head in the game. Performative stunts and riots aren't going to help us out here.

....Sonya Sotomayer would probably write the opinion....

Suppose the city had denied the permit and the alt-right group sued the city? What would the city;s defense be? Next time the alt-right comes to town don't hold a counter protest. Deny them a confrontation that generates news coverage.

@11 You may be a man who leads a life of danger, but you are correct. Deny the confrontation, there is no news.

This ironically named Mayday front is using Oswald Mosley's tactics of provocation from the so-called Battle of Cable Street, in which the British Union of Fascists (BUF) held rallies, staged marches and promoted support for the German Nazis in the heart of London's then-Jewish East End.

The Jewish People's Council organised a petition calling for the march to be banned, which gathered the signatures of 100,000 East Londoners, including the Mayors of the five East London Boroughs (Hackney, Shoreditch, Stepney, Bethnal Green and Poplar) in two days. Home Secretary John Simon denied the request to outlaw the march.

The resulting counter-protests and unrest forced the BUF to abandon much of their planned offense, and those who fought against support of fascism in Britain are considered heroes; their anti-facist chutzpah is viewed even today with nothing but pride.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Cable_Street

Good to see that only about 500 people showed up in support. If that’s all the support they can muster, that’s pretty pathetic.
It’s hilarious that these people think they are shocking us. The reality is that they’re the ones who get shocked over things as benign as two men kissing, so no, we’re not shocked, but I bet all of them are.
And to those of us at the Stranger who were outraged by this event, you probably don’t understand our rights as Americans very well. We protest things we don’t agree with. Those protests have led to the advancement of gay rights, the ending of wars, legal weed, etc. The price we pay for this societal avenue of change is letting backwards people protest too. We just don’t care what they say, because after all, there is no unfair god who made some people gay and some not, and those gay people just have a harder time crossing that imaginary “good” bar to achieve some heavenly immortality. It’s just such a stupid story, nobody is going to change their minds to that.

There is approximately a 0% chance anyone was arrested for "yelling".

@5 Can you describe what "antifa type people" look like exactly?

@14,

"Bail of $20,000 was set for a 28-year-old woman who, according to reports submitted by SPD, hit an officer with a baton and threw a rock with an explosive at an officer."

That's not protest or counter-protest. That's criminal violence.

Interesting that the intolerant hate-rally folks were 100% peaceful, and the ostensibly tolerant counter-protesters had the violent elements.

Source for quotation in @17 is Seattle Times, who are quoting court records.

Why are "Progressives" so violent and hateful?

Of course the police were focused on the counter protestors. They are the ones with the history of intolerance and violence.

A peaceful Christian group, exercising their First Amendment rights to free speech, free association and religious expression were attacked by a group of violent thugs. End of story.

@15 People have been arrested for less.

@16 Antifi type people are the dipsticks who dress completely in black skinny jeans, black shoes, black shirts and hoodies. It’s accessorized either helmets, masks and umbrella. The ultimate tell is their violence and effort to block visual record keeping. For anarchists, they do love strict rules on what to wear when cops are expected.

What a CF.

We know what happens when the opposite of this rally happens - @22 & @20 show up with MSSAs and large dogs. See: Blaine & Sequim.

Tolerance of intolerance is intolerance by proxy, and any event hosting openly fascist speakers (Shea) is a fascist event. You can point out they followed all the rules, like people defending segregation, disenfranchisement, slavery, etc when those were the rules, but you're still speaking in defence of intolerant fascist losers. I'd rather be cast as a violent criminal than be that, ew.

Still waiting for Progressives to abandon that embarrassing trend of the twenty-tens, wherein Progressive influencers condescendingly explain that Free Speech ("Freeze Peach! lol") is bad, akshully.

@15 yes police, especially SPD, are traditionally very measured and professional in their response to protest. Zero chance they'd abuse their authority and arrest someone for yelling at or disrespecting them, but make trumped up or actual false affirmations to justify it.

This famous quote describes most of the comments here incredibly well:

"First, I must confess that over the past few years I have been gravely disappointed with the white moderate [...] who is more devoted to "order" than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says: "I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I cannot agree with your methods of direct action"

I wish that just ignoring these fascist assholes would work, but you can't allow them to ever feel a moment of comfort coming into the heart of queer Seattle to spread their hate. And while I don't trust the narrative that people were arrested only after throwing things at cops, given that the cops were focusing their hostility at the people who live and work in the neighborhood rather than the fascist invaders it's understandable that some would act out. The better response would have been for the police to protect the community rather than the fascists.

It sounds like if they try this again, we need a bigger counter-protest, and we need to pressure local elected officials to join the counter-protest, and for cops to focus their enforcement on the violent fascist instigators. And if the city refuses, the only option many will see is to throw more punches. These fascists need to feel unwelcome everywhere and anywhere in the city.

"far left trangender radical leftists"

Why the "scare quotes"? Many writers for The Stranger (guest ranters included) literally call themselves "far left trangender radical leftists", so where is the lie?

"The cops maintained a stiff physical barrier between the protesters and the Mayday attendees filtering out of the park. while cops maintained a firm physical barrier between them and the counterprotesters." [sic]

Does anyone at The Stranger edit this shit?

"maintained a wall of cops as well—with their backs to the stage, trained on the counterprotest."

Which makes total sense. There wasn't any threat of violence coming from the Christians. The cops logically and reasonably faced the people causing the actual problems. DUH!!!!

Has Councilperson Hollingsworth still not made a statement? I agree with #28 that in future, our elected officials should be at the park joining in nonviolent response. We’ll remember you when we vote if even afterwards you aren’t willing to condemn this deliberate provocation.

@30 - this post was written by the "editor-in-chief". In other words, don't expect their crappy-ass writing to improve any time soon.

Well, sorry to read that Pride has drifted far from the roots of a literal riot at the Stonewall, and sent a pearl-clutching letter (hat tip @6) which, with the replacement of very few words but no change in tone, could have been written by a proper ma'am on the Ladies' Auxiliary of the Chamber of Commerce in a mid-sized American city of fifty years ago, imploring the local constabulary not to allow teh ehebil gehyz to come in and recruit our town's innocent children into their destructive lifestyle.

So, Capitol Hill, my proud residence for two decades, walked right into a trap which it could have seen coming from literally hundreds of miles away. Given we can expect bigots to re-run the same playbook again, in expectation of yet another walk-over, what to do next time?

Get about fifteen young ladies and men from the community, half a dozen femmes and half a dozen twinks, with a few slightly huskier (but no Toms of Finland) guys, every last one of whom was raised fundie. Scrub them squeaky-clean, and even arm them with actual Bibles, if deemed prudent. They get there nice and early on Hate Saturday, and volunteer to help out. They talk constantly about how oppressed they feel in Seattle, and how much they loves themselves some Jeebus, for he hath liberated them from that lifestyle. As the event starts, they should all be a little ways back in the crowd.

Once the event gets going, our half-dozen simulated straight couples swap partners to same-sex, and put on a fine, saliva-swapping show of Capitol Hill Pride. The several remaining guys have their phones at the ready. If anyone puts a finger on any of them, that's misdemeanor assault. Our male couples give the appropriate "hey gurl, hey..." come-ons to other like-gendered members of the crowd, and our video artists remind everyone that this is all about the freedom of expression. Who's violent now?

Of course, the best version of this requires coordination with (gasp!) like-minded members of the SPD, so the Stranger will reflexively hate it, and try to "out" the plan before it goes into effect; therefore, they'll have to be left even more clueless.

You're welcome.

Free speech? yes!
But from 7am to 10pm?
Seattle Parks and Recreation can’t limit the rally permit to 4 hours (or 6 hours) but allowed 15 hours? Jeez after 90 minutes of those nut jobs I’d be speaking in tongues.
Sometimes the best speech is to shut up.

@22 Those people are black bloc, not antifa. Antifa simply means anti-fascist... which i assume almost everyone on this thread actually is... except WereBackBaby and posob. I'm wearing a striped polo shirt and khaki pants right now, actually.

Next time they do one of these we need to just schedule one of the gays eating garlic bread in the park things at the same time and turn them all gay with our delicious butter soaked carbs the way god intended.

Many years ago, I worked at a law firm located in the Hoge building. The old building had windows that opened, and many offices took advantage of this, as the AC didn't work well in the summer. So, sounds emanating from the sidewalk and street wafted in.

I'll never forget the 3-4 weeks of union protest happening right across the street, which consisted of people banging on pots or pans (never sure what they were using), screaming, blowing whistles, yelling, and making all sorts of noise that was regarded as speech, while saying nothing other than "Look over here". I think it was a drywall union protest. It began to slowly drive us all crazy as the noise never let up, and we spent over 40 hours a week in our offices at times. Thankfully, they knocked off by 6pm. We tried earplugs or other ways to escape, but this resulted in missed phone calls and emails went out warning us that 'missing client calls isn't professional'.

I tell you all this to say: grow the fuck up. If I can endure nearly a month of noise that was supposed to be speech (someone please tell me what blowing a whistle is supposed to say), distracting me from work, setting my teeth on edge, making clients crazy too as we constantly had to ask "please repeat that as I couldn't hear you over the noise", you can suffer a couple of hours of batshit crazy from religious nuts.

@

@1 - agreed, except the group didn't ask for Cal Anderson; that was entirely on the city. They original asked for a spot near Pike Place Market, and the city refused and offered them Cal Anderson instead.

That aside a LOT of people here need to relearn the lessons from the Westboro Baptist Church, and from Skokie Illinois.

You don't get to beat up people because you don't like what they have to say.

You don't get to throw things at people because you don't like what they have to say.

You don't get to be violent, destroy things, or set fire to things because you don't like what people have to say?

Think you do? Take a civics lesson, and learn what your first amendment RIGHTS are. Note: that's rights, not privilege.

Don't like that and still want to act like little violent thugs? Get the hell out of my city.

And no, I don't agree with their positions, but because I understand my rights in this country - which is still theoretically a free country - I don't get to act like little spoilt entitled violent children.

Stop acting like violent, totalitarian, authoritarian fascists, and learn your rights.

@24 - you don't get to fight fascists by becoming fascists. People get to say whatever they like, as long as it's not directly encouraging credible threats of physical violence.

@40, I agree with everything you wrote except, based on the mayor’s office statement in this article, the first request from this group made to The Parks Department was for Cal Anderson, so if that’s correct, it was a deliberate choice on their part. It was their second choice but still a choice they made. They weren’t forced into it.

@13: You might want to read your source all of the way to the end:

"The Fascists presented themselves as the law-abiding party who were denied free speech by a weak government and police force in the face of mob violence."

So, not exactly a win for the anti-Fascist side, then.

"Following the battle, the Public Order Act 1936 outlawed the wearing of political uniforms and required organisers of large meetings and demonstrations to obtain police permission."

IOW, reduction in freedom of expression, and greater police control of demonstrations. Sounds exactly like a program a group like the Fascists could really support!

"Mosley subsequently held a series of rallies around London, there was a large outbreak of anti-Semitic violence in London and other cities, and the BUF increased its membership in the capital city,"

Hard to see any of that as a loss for Fascist goon squads.

"...although their [BUF] activity in Britain was severely limited by the outbreak of the Second World War."

In June 1940, after Nazi Germany conquered France, and ran British forces completely off the European continent, Hitler offered peace terms to the British Empire. Despite having no way to reverse Germany's many victories on the ground, PM Winston Churchill (Conservative MP, BTW) ignored all talk of ceasing hostilities. Had there been a less war-happy government in London, peace with Nazi Germany might've been concluded, and then the BUF would have been in a very good position indeed. Mosley (former Labor MP, BTW) might even have joined a coalition government.

@40 "a LOT of people here need to relearn the lessons from the Westboro Baptist Church, and from Skokie Illinois.
You don't get to beat up people because you don't like what they have to say."

The lesson of Skokie is that the * government * cannot restrict speech. First Amendment has nothing to do with private individual actions. And I would suggest that, regardless whether it is legally permitted, people of conscience have a moral obligation to beat up, for example, Nazis. Don't let those motherfuckers have an inch.

The bible-addled nitwits have a right to peaceably assemble, even though their very presence is provocative.

I guess they're rallying again this evening, in front of City Hall.

Phil in Seattle dear, what is an "antifa type", and why are you pro-fascist?

@20, You might want to read up on that “peaceful” religious group’s manifesto before going overboard in your defense of them. It doesn’t end well for any man who doesn’t want to live in a theocracy. Look up Matt Shea’s Biblical Basis for War and get back to us.

@44 then, as that's illegal, enjoy a stay in jail.

You can't beat people up because you don't like what they say, end of story. That's a really big red line you don't cross.

@40 emails have come to light from the City of Seattle showing that they originally wanted Pike Place, but were told by the city to go to Cal Anderson instead.

https://x.com/russellbjohnson/status/1927360739158659470

@49. They weren’t “told” to go anywhere. They were recommended a couple of different options. Those weren’t even necessarily the only two options, just two suggestions. To hear the religious group and their supporters tell it, they were “directed” (as in forced) to go to Cal Anderson. Their own texts you provided show that was not the case. If they were concerned about their safety at Cal Anderson and for some reason didn’t want to go to South Lake Union, they could have asked for other suggestions. They’re spinning this into an issue that it wasn’t for political purposes so they can claim additional victimhood.

@8: “If only you had felt the same way when Sawant went to Durkan's house, since that's way worse than protesting in a public park.”

@44: “… then, as that's illegal, enjoy a stay in jail.”

The Stranger has taken an abolitionist position. Coincidence? I think not.

@44: "And I would suggest that, regardless whether it is legally permitted, people of conscience have a moral obligation to beat up, for example, Nazis."

You just torpedoed your morality with such an evil statement about morality. In your eyes, it's totally subjective on who gets beat up. You're just a renegade vigilante.

@50 it was a permitted event. The city told them which options were available for permitting.

This is all moot anyway: first amendment says they could be at any park they wanted to, even Cal Anderson.

Unfortunately our local violent thug set decided that acting out and giving them exactly what they wanted was more important than recognizing basic fundamental human rights in the United States, presumably because they're uneducated morons who don't understand the first amendment.

So now, consequences.

Learn to use your words. The normies are done with this bullshit. It has been a very long decade and violent activists have been tolerated far too long in this city.

43: IOTW, you'd have effectively told the antifascists to give up on fighting fascism, effectively, since fascists never act in good faith and since it isn't possible to use bland timid "free speech" to defeat fascism- it never has been- whatever you can say of how the Republican(antifascist) side in the Spanish Civil War fared(and it was never an actual civil war, it was nothing but an extended military coup against a democratically-elected left-of-center government the military had no justification for trying to overthrow) the Republicans held Franco off for three years- had they done what you wanted and just blandly, mundanely given speeches, he'd have ruled Spain in 1936, not 1939.

And no, the fact that, out of nothing but a narrow sense of "national interests", the British government finally fought Hitler and fascism when it was too late to matter- when Hitler had already taken over Europe and when it was too late to save all the peoples Hitler had planned all along to exterminate- doesn't vindicate that government's refusal to stop Mosley in the 1930s or what it had done to enable fascism before then

There was no way to use bland, mundane, passionless "free speech", by itself, to stop Mosley- and there was no way to protect the overwhelmingly Jewish neighborhood of Cable Street from Mosley's Black Shirts and the violence they had announced they were going to inflict without physically blocking the Black Shirts from getting to Cable Street. Nothing "respectable" would have worked.

"Free speech" can only defeat oppression in conflicts where it isn't the only method used and in conflicts where what free speech tried to defeat acts in something like good faith, so it can never, by itself, be used to defeat fascism, racism, or hate.

It was a victory for nothing but hatred and injustice that this hate rally in Cal Anderson Park went forward. There is no way that the City's cooperation with bigots- all of which will inevitably choose violence at some point- can ever lead to those bigots ultimately being defeated.

And if you're going to bring in Dr. King's movement- btw, from what I've heard, all Black people are disgusted with timid white centrists invocation of that movement's nonviolence, and especially with its implication that Black and Brown and LGBTQ+ and Indigenous and Immigrant people(s)
have no right ever to fight back against their oppressors and owed it to the timid "respectable" white centrists like yourself to be sitting ducks against those who show up to kill them, you should know that Dr. King realized that and started having armed security at his rallies and marches...the "Deacons for Defense and Justice", led the activist and musician Rev. Frederick Douglass Kirkpatrick.

People like you, who live in privilege and complete safety- as all rich people do- have a limited right to judge the tactics of those who are actively fighting for their lives. Yes, you're supposedly LGBTQ+, but your wealth guarantees your safety. Nobody in that neighborhood has any protections, and the cops in that neighborhood have never protected or defended LGBTQ+ people.

43: IOTW, you'd have effectively told the antifascists to give up on fighting fascism, effectively, since fascists never act in good faith and since it isn't possible to use bland timid "free speech" to defeat fascism- it never has been- whatever you can say of how the Republican(antifascist) side in the Spanish Civil War fared(and it was never an actual civil war, it was nothing but an extended military coup against a democratically-elected left-of-center government the military had no justification for trying to overthrow) the Republicans held Franco off for three years- had they done what you wanted and just blandly, mundanely given speeches, he'd have ruled Spain in 1936, not 1939.

And no, the fact that, out of nothing but a narrow sense of "national interests", the British government finally fought Hitler and fascism when it was too late to matter- when Hitler had already taken over Europe and when it was too late to save all the peoples Hitler had planned all along to exterminate- doesn't vindicate that government's refusal to stop Mosley in the 1930s or what it had done to enable fascism before then

There was no way to use bland, mundane, passionless "free speech", by itself, to stop Mosley- and there was no way to protect the overwhelmingly Jewish neighborhood of Cable Street from Mosley's Black Shirts and the violence they had announced they were going to inflict without physically blocking the Black Shirts from getting to Cable Street. Nothing "respectable" would have worked.

"Free speech" can only defeat oppression in conflicts where it isn't the only method used and in conflicts where what free speech tried to defeat acts in something like good faith, so it can never, by itself, be used to defeat fascism, racism, or hate.

It was a victory for nothing but hatred and injustice that this hate rally in Cal Anderson Park went forward. There is no way that the City's cooperation with bigots- all of which will inevitably choose violence at some point- can ever lead to those bigots ultimately being defeated.

And if you're going to bring in Dr. King's movement- btw, from what I've heard, all Black people are disgusted with timid white centrists invocation of that movement's nonviolence, and especially with its implication that Black and Brown and LGBTQ+ and Indigenous and Immigrant people(s)
have no right ever to fight back against their oppressors and owed it to the timid "respectable" white centrists like yourself to be sitting ducks against those who show up to kill them, you should know that Dr. King realized that and started having armed security at his rallies and marches...the "Deacons for Defense and Justice", led the activist and musician Rev. Frederick Douglass Kirkpatrick.

People like you, who live in privilege and complete safety- as all rich people do- have a limited right to judge the tactics of those who are actively fighting for their lives. Yes, you're supposedly LGBTQ+, but your wealth guarantees your safety. Nobody in that neighborhood has any protections, and the cops in that neighborhood have never protected or defended LGBTQ+ people.

@53, That's not factually correct, based on the evidence you supplied. Since you encourage people to use their words, please show proof that these were the only two permits available based on evidence to support your claim. What those texts you link to show is that those were simply two recommendations. You have made the leap to assuming those were the only permits available based on what exactly?

@53 The text from the city that Johnson provided says "You can contact the parks department to inquire about permits at those parks OR OTHER PARKS." Did they inquire about other parks? Where is the evidence that they were told Cal Anderson was the only park available? Even Johnson's intro to his post says they were "suggestions."

Using your words to argue is also my preferred method, but it's obnoxious when the people encouraging that choose to be deliberately misleading in their counter arguments.

@53 "Unfortunately our local violent thug set decided that acting out and giving them exactly what they wanted was more important than recognizing basic fundamental human rights in the United States, presumably because they're uneducated morons who don't understand the first amendment."

You had a good run but you exposed yourself as a troll here, especially given I had just explained the First Amendment to you a few comments above.

@52 since the other person mentioned Skokie, here's a quote from an article about it:

"The Jewish War Veterans organization said they would mount a counter demonstration. Others said that would give the neo-Nazis the publicity they were seeking. Better to stay off the streets.

“But there was a time we were told to stay at home when the Nazis marched through the streets,” Gans said. “That won’t happen again.”
In her youth, the strategy of the European Jewish leaders was to avoid confrontations with Hitler’s followers. Eventually the German people would be tired of his antics. Rule of law would be restored, and life would return to normal for Jews.

Instead, the Holocaust followed."

https://www.chicagotribune.com/2023/01/22/vintage-chicago-tribune-in-1977-skokie-was-a-refuge-for-thousands-of-holocaust-survivors-then-a-group-of-self-styled-nazis-planned-a-march/

@44: "people of conscience have a moral obligation to beat up, for example, Nazis."

But the police have a legal obligation to detain, arrest and/or charge people engaging in violent acts. Furthermore, did anyone check to see if they were members in good standing of the Nazi party? Or just someone you don't like?

@60 "did anyone check to see if they were members in good standing of the Nazi party? Or just someone you don't like?"

You're asking whether anyone checked if the marchers in Skokie, which is what we were talking about, were Nazis? Are you not familiar with what happened in Skokie?

@55: "...had they done what you wanted and just blandly, mundanely given speeches,"

Your persistent making of ignorant assumptions does not actually satisfy your need for actual knowledge. Last time, your illiteracy, in believing "tens-" and "trans-" were the same thing (they're not), misled you to the conclusion I'd changed my nym simply to spite trans' persons.

In this case, please read my comment @34, wherein I proposed if the May Day USA bigots return to Cal Anderson Park, the local LGBTQ+ community should take positive (and baldly provocative) actions, to monkey-wrench the May Day USA event. (Please note I wrote nothing about the LGBTQ+ community making speeches.)

As you missed it completely, my point @43 was to refute @13's claim. @13 wrote that active opposition to Mosley's British Union of Fascists by left-wing Britons in the 1930s harmed Mosley's Fascist cause in the UK. In fact, the left-wing opposition's methods played straight into Mosley's hands, strengthening his Fascist movement in Britain. The British Fascist movement was destroyed not by any leftists, but by the British government, after the UK went to war with Nazi Germany. And the leader of that government, who refused to make peace with the Nazi government of Germany, was none other than Britain's most famous Tory, Winston Churchill.

"...from Mosley's Black Shirts and the violence they had announced they were going to inflict..."

At what time prior to the Battle of Cable Street did Mosley claim, either in private or public, that the British Union of Fascists would inflict violence upon any citizens of London? His purpose in the march was to show the Fascists were law-abiding citizens, by contrasting the Fascists' peaceful march against the intolerant violence of left-wing agitators. Thanks to those very same violently intolerant left-wing agitators, he succeeded completely. It was a victory for him and his Fascists, not for the left-wingers who first advocated censorship, and then used violence, against expression of views they (rightly) despised.

"And if you're going to bring in Dr. King's movement..."

I didn't, but yes, the provocative actions I advised the LGBTQ+ community of Capitol Hill to take against the May Day bigots, were inspired in part by Dr. King's use of peaceful-yet-provocative actions against racist Southern bigots.

"Yes, you're supposedly LGBTQ+..."

Actually, I identify as cis-het' white male. So now, you've gone from claiming I'm anti-trans', to claiming I'm LGBTQ+? WTF?

Why are Progressives so violent and full of hate?

@60: "Are you not familiar with what happened in Skokie?"

Yes, I am. But that group identified itself as the NSPA. And still, the Supreme Court held that they had a right to march. But you, pulling the term "NAZI" out of your butt every time you disagree with someone, gives you no special rights. Nor moral justification.

The Mayday group identifies itself as Christians. Are you suggesting that this gives you the right to resort to violence?

62: I think most people had assumed you were LGBTQ+- if you're not, I'm sorry- I was going with a general assumption- particularly after the time you made the absurd claim that Kshama Sawant was not an LGBTQ+ alley- and made that assumption in support of the Bill Clinton-type center-right candidate you supported against her for re-election the last time. If you're straight- and if you are, you are, though I doubt I'm the only person who's surprised to hear that- why would you ever use the LGBTQ+ cause as a cudgel to attack a progressive politician and advocate replacement by a much more conservative candidate- somebody who was on the side of landlords against tenants, and therefore could not have been progressive on anything but a handful of trivial side issues that are guaranteed to require no sacrifice from the wealthy.

And I didn't confuse "trans" with "tens"- that would be stupid. I already apologized for making that mistake and it's childish to keep throwing it at me when it's a dead issue.

As to Mosley- there was no way a march of uniformed fascists would not have violent intent- everyone who lived on Cable Street assumed Mosley was there to beat up Jewish residents and leftists, and it is incredibly suspicious that the police, who were and are supposed to be politically neutral were leading the Black Shirts towards Cable Street in a protective cordon.

What matters is that the Black Shirts were kept out of East London none of the timid "respectable" methods you'd have used instead would have achieved anything- and while the (mostly working-class) troops sent by the British government- a government which spent years trading with Hitler and Mussolini and thus legitimizing and helping perpetuate their regimes- showed incredible valor in defeating Hitler on the battlefield, it never had to come to a shooting war- a tough all-out international economic embargo would have brought Hitler- and Mussolini- down in a matter of months, preventing the Holocaust and all of the other horrors of "the European theatre" and probably preventing the creation of the useless postwar "permanent war economy" that created the lethal political consensus in the US that the war budget could never be reduced again.

And the British government you hero-worship, the one which waited to break with the Third Reich until it was too late to matter, had had a heavy pro-fascist component within it who saw Hitler, Mussolini and Franco as "lesser evils" and supported them solely to keep Germany, Italy and Spain from having Left governments. I hope you're not going to defend THAT line of thinking.

I made a couple of trivial mistakes about your identity- based on assumptions I doubt I was the only one on this board to have held- for which I immediately apologized and put to rest as soon as I became aware that they were mistakes, and you are acting as if those are the only things that matter. That obsession with trivial mistakes marks you as the arrogant, inherent-superiority-assuming verbal bully most people see you as on this page.

@65: "...there was no way a march of uniformed fascists would not have violent intent-..."

Assuming what you need to show does not actually validate it. @54/55 you claimed, "...Mosley's Black Shirts and the violence they had announced they were going to inflict..." How did they "announce" this, and when did they do so? Because so far, it seems you have simply assumed they were going to become violent.

"What matters is that the Black Shirts were kept out of East London..."

And Mosely made great PR value for his Fascists out of it, too. Left-wing East Enders fought the police, the police asked Mosley not to march into the East End, and he agreed not to march there. The Fascists looked like calm, reasonable, law-abiding citizens, whilst the police and East Enders suffered almost all of the casualties (and the East Enders suffered almost all of the arrests). How any of that could possibly be taken as a victory for the hard left in the East End remains difficult to explain.

Now, in Seattle, a group of hard-right activists has made Seattle, and Seattle's very liberal citizens, look violently intolerant. They have replicated Mosley's victory. Until you and others in Seattle (like @13) stop describing these defeats for the local left as victories, you're going to get more of them.

67: Any of the polite, useless "respectable" methods you'd have approved of would have produced nothing but defeat. Why even pretend that respectability politics works against fascists when it never has anywhere?

@67: Sigh. Please actually read @34, third and fourth paragraphs. Then please tell me what you found "respectable" in my suggestion the LGBTQ+ community on Capitol Hill should actively sabotage the next MayDayUSA event there, with the explicit intent of provoking those visiting bigots to violence.