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Aug 7, 2013
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800 Maynard Ave S, Suite 200, Seattle, WA 98134
All contents © Index Newspapers LLC
800 Maynard Ave S, Suite 200, Seattle, WA 98134
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In a civil law suit are the defendants covered by some sort of liability insurance? If yes, what impact would that have on how aggressively the County might choose internal discipline over civil litigation?
Say Officer Joe does something wrong - illegally arrests someone, uses excessive force, etc. That's a strike. Any discipline is handled internally. Same goes for the next offense.
The third strike? Now it's attributed to the supervising officer (in the chain of command) at the time of the 3rd incident. This could be suspension, fining, loss of job, unpaid community service hours, or jail time at worst.
Basically, the shit has to roll uphill
I've noticed a lot of cases go back to union contracts, with the guild backing the bad cops until they are re-instated, even when fired for good cause.
I'm usually pro union, even government employees, but we should draw the line at any employee that has the power of life and death over people. With that kind of power should come very serious accountability.
Anyway, I'll just say, these two officers/sergeants clearly have other problems that they're trying to 'resolve' in the streets.
Yes, it IS unusual for them to do the responsible thing. That is the problem.
apologist assessments make possible the police state.
Also- I am not sure anyone understands the "A bad apple spoils the whole bunch" line. What it means is that if you allow a 'bad apple' into a batch (originally a barrel), the rotten fruit will promote rot in the others around it- which is folksy wisdom but also hard science.
So we misuse the phrase to suggest that the 'whole bunch' are being painted in a poor light by the actions of the 'bad apples.' What it actually means is that if you allow 'bad apples' into the bunch, it will rot them all.
I saw a junkie having his works taken away, and overheard the cops offer a meal and a night off the streets if he agreed to a drug intervention. He apparently turned the police down because I saw him on the same street corner about half an hour later, looking rather dejected. It would seem that no arrest was made.
I also saw the police confiscate a six pack of beer from someone at the fireworks (apparently illegal even if they stay technically outside the municipal parks.) The man was belligerent, but the police remained polite and calms; in Seattle, this almost certainly would have resulted in a direct confrontation and probably an arrest.
If SPD wants to learn about how to improve their image, they might want to send officers to VPD's training seminars.
How'd that go over?
For those of you who don't follow suburban politics the 47th GOP are quite extreme given the margins in the district. For those of you who'd like a tast, see kc47gop.org.
I'd suggest one of their meetings, but only like-mined Republicans and conservatives are welcome to attend.
Major League Baseball has a similar problem with two of their umpires, C.B. Bucknor & Angel Hernanadez. Both were hired 2 decades ago solely for their skin color: they've been horrible umps their entire careers. They were token hires, and their gross incompetence has come to the fore the past two seasons. MLB was finally forced to suspend Hernandez earlier this year when he blatantly displayed his lack of rulebook knowledge. Bucknor had to be removed from a team of umps last year because he kept picking fights with players over his shitty performance. Yet there is no way MLB is ever going to acknowledge that these guys were hired for the wrong reasons. Sound familiar?
If Saulet gets fired and Marion at least properly disciplined, hopefully this will make a point with the rest of the cops to tone it down or that there might actually be consequences.
He fought it and went through arbitration and won his stripes back (along with all back pay) and all documentation referencing his demotion was purged from his file.
He was also recommended to be demoted a second time about a month or so ago, had his Loudermill Hearing with Urquhart, yet Urquhart (in an unusually long time for him to rule) has yet to come out with his final ruling on this latest demotion.
So keep digging Dominic, there is way more fire to the smoke around Saulet's history with the Sheriff's Office.
...so what precinct are you out of?
Yeah, they're ALL bad apples in this picture, because they're accessories by their acts of complicity*.
All this militarization of municipal law enforcement agencies has gone way off the deep end and it's going to take LOUDER outrage by the people and their local governments to steer it away from the eventual police-state
destination.
*Compli-City - A city consisting of a population so docile and submissive, it is impotent against the aggressive imposition of its own police department's will to subdue the population of which it is ostensibly chartered to protect and serve.
[see also "The tail that wags the dog."]
I don't think much can come of going after the offenders themselves. Go after the ones in charge of the offenders.
Right now if you go to different consumer web forums for different corporations, there are tons of complaints about companies screwing people over, but how many of those know they have an option of filing a complaint w/ the FTC or do?
Sorry for getting off track, but the government works for people if we empower the government to do so. Which is why it's important to do as you did, speak out, hold people accountable, and use the tools that the government has empowered you with, to empower the government to take action.
Good for you!
Here is officer John Marion's FB page, let him know directly what you think of him
I think that it is reasonable for you to be upset about the interaction you had and to file a complaint if you feel the need. That being said, I feel you are reacting poorly and with great bias in order to force a "story" where there is none.
It seems to me like you have been treated with a great deal of respect and sensitivity by everyone you have dealt with since your initial complaint but you barely acknowledge that, instead repeatedly using dramatic words and phrasing to try and force excitement into a very boring story.
To repeatedly use the word "threat" and variations of it in regards to the "bother you at work" comment is silly. It sounds more like a petulant child tattling on his big brother than a grown man with a legitimate complaint. The first officer certainly seems to need addressing but you hamstring yourself and the ability of anyone else to take you seriously with your attempt to force the idea that the second officer was "threatening" you.
Overall this story smacks of a lack of professionalism and a desperate desire to create something exciting where there is really only rudeness and semantics to discuss.
I'm posting this from my phone, I apologize for any errors.
While walking down 5th Ave in downtown Seattle I was lost in thought thinking about a problem I was puzzling through at work.
So I was not paying close attention to what was going on around me.
I was startled out of my reverie by an SPD officer yelling at me to get on the other side of the street. What was the problem? The officer was guarding a construction site and didn't like that was walking on the public sidewalk in front of it.
Now, when I say he was yelling what I mean was that if this officer has been a dog I would have been concerned that he had rabies.
Screaming.
At the top of his lungs.
Because an absent-minded nerd hadn't heard his initial barked command and it had offended his sense of his own authority.
Was there danger? -- Nope.
Was the officer concerned for my safety or for his own safety? -- Not a chance.
Just another SPD asshole with a badge.
Good times Seattle!
You are bugging him at his job and it's freedom of the press, and he says he's going to bug you at your work and you automatically assume it to mean HOLY SHIT THREATS OF POLICE BRUTALITY!!!!!! Why don't you give him the benefit of the doubt that you thrust upon everyone else in your favor?
You are bugging him at his job and it's freedom of the press, and he says he's going to bug you at your work and you automatically assume it to mean HOLY SHIT THREATS OF POLICE BRUTALITY!!!!!! Why don't you give him the benefit of the doubt that you thrust upon everyone else in your favor?
What business does he have taking photo's of police officers? Obviously you didn't read the fucking article. Not to mention he has constitutional rights? Holy shit, whoever wrote that comment is the reason this country is going down the shit hole. Fuck me that is depressing.
What business does he have taking photos of police officers? Clearly you didn't even read the article. Not to mention he has constitutional rights? The person who wrote that comment is one of the reasons this country is going to shit. So depressing.
CM~
CM~
Instead, when a police officer acts inappropriately, illegally or unethically, who foots the bill? The public/taxpayers/everyone except for the person responsible.
This isn't to single out all police officers as being unethical, rather it's a testament to the fact that the work they perform is dangerous, scary and hazardous.
Eventually the bad officers will be priced out of a job...
This is seriously mucked up.
But to the rest of us living in other cities, you had it SO GOOD.
Most other places, you would've been beaten, had your camera smashed, probably tasered, taken downtown for more, and then charged with multiple crimes and been convicted of all of them.
So Thank You for doing the standing-up you've been doing. Please continue and don't let them overwhelm you.
Everyone has to figure out how much justice or lack of jail time they can personally afford -- you do, like the rest of us have to. But you'll be a shining star if you can continue this.
Start a petition at moveon or somewhere and see if you can get funding for legal resources.
See, most of us, it would come to naught. You're Lucky to be living where the higher-ups talked to you kinda rationally. We all hope you continue, and we all hope you succeed.
Okay.
TG
This is seriously mucked up.
But to the rest of us living in other cities, you had it SO GOOD.
Most other places, you would've been beaten, had your camera smashed, probably tasered, taken downtown for more, and then charged with multiple crimes and been convicted of all of them.
So Thank You for doing the standing-up you've been doing. Please continue and don't let them overwhelm you.
Everyone has to figure out how much justice or lack of jail time they can personally afford -- you do, like the rest of us have to. But you'll be a shining star if you can continue this.
Start a petition at moveon or somewhere and see if you can get funding for legal resources.
See, most of us, it would come to naught. You're Lucky to be living where the higher-ups talked to you kinda rationally. We all hope you continue, and we all hope you succeed.
Okay.
TG
So, good old Saulet is still around and King County Metro Transit Sherif's Department has not yet permanently fired his sorry ass? yes, Saulet acutally works for the Transit dvivsion of the King County Sherif's Department. Back in - I'm 80% sure it was 2006 - a Seattle PI reporter did a several month expose series on the bad apples in the King County Sherif's Department, and Saulet had place of honor in one of his full page articles. You really should check out the archives. I drive buses for Metro and Saulet has been a legend - and not in a good way. He is a threatening, intimidating bully. One of his fellow officers told me - and this was back in 2005 - that Saulet "had a file a drawer thick" of complaints against him. This officer told me that he used to work with him, but changed jobs so he didn't have to. Saulet "arrested" the Metro Service Supervisor in the tunnel for allegedly interfering with the conducting of police business, which was complete bullshit. It would take too long to give you all the details here. When pressure came down on Saulet following the PI expose, story had it he was investigated for making "racially derogatory remarks" to a young black man he arrested at the Burien Transit Center, and demoted from seargent and sent into the boonies way down to South King County somewhere. But, he found his way back into the bosom of the King County Sherif's Transit Department within about a year, I think. And now he's a seargent again. Quelle surprise. You really, really, really should expose this guy in depth. And why you're at it, check out some of the other baddies int he King County Sheriff's Dep. It makes me laugh whenI read about what a hard time the Seattle Police dept is getting for hard line policing, and how, for some reason I cannot fathom, the King County Sherif's Dept. appears to be teflon. Oh - and a few years after he arrested the Metro supervisor, he was on the KING 5 news for - guess what? threatening to arrest a tourist for taking pictures in the tunnel, and confiscating their camera and exposing their film (or taking out the card from the camera. don't remember which. This would have been maybe 2008 or 2009). You could have so much fun with this one. Good luck!
Why? Because a guy across the street was on his PROPERTY doing wheelies on his 4 wheeler and the old guy next door who ALWAYS calls the cops, ranging from loud music, to someone speeding, to people not watering their lawn, and they proceeded to beat him in front of his kids.
When another patron of their afternoon party tried to move the kids inside to a safe location they jumped him and arrested him for not standing still while the other police were still beating this man up on the ground.(Not involved personally at this point I live across the street)
Now they are running around high fiving each other, amped up like they are on speed, all excited at their latest catch and about an hour later as the kids come out crying, and the wife shows up balling her head off they are still congratulating each other, slapping each other on the back and ass and acting like a football team who just won the superbowl.
After they bring the man in, 30 minutes later the next door neighbor called the police AGAIN because two of the people from the get together across the street were still out front and asked that next time he just come over and ask them to stop... this time NO local PD show up just the over zealous Auburn and Federal Way cops.
As they are yelling at this kid, I walk over to explain what happened. Now mind you, I am saying EXCUSE ME while I am crossing the street because this guy is obviously already amped and waiting to pounce on someone else and I get met with a "Don't walk up on us Son or i'll take you down" This kid is about 25 and a bit overweight and I am a 37 year old man twice his size. His buddies have a look on their face like "great, here we go" not a good look, but they don't say anything to him. He is still aggressively telling me that my story doesn't matter, he doesn't care if the guy calls the cops at least 2-3 times a week and tells me that unless I want to add anymore I can leave. I tell him no, that we are on a sidewalk that is in Pacific WA and he can leave if he wants.
At this point he does, and goes into the old mans house to take statements away from me, the only eye witness not involved in the original altercations that happened. I ask his buddy how he feels about that type of behaviour and he won't look at me in the eye's, he won't comment, he just says that its a felony to threaten a witness if the witness feels threatened (he was referring to the old man), I proceed to explain that as a witness, I want to file charges against the police office for threatening me and he refuses.
This is the type of crap where we as citizens need to flood their office with people and DEMAND that no bully on their force still works there by end of day, nor on some lame paid vacation while this all blows over. Any officer who condones the Code of Blue type behavior should also be fired.
I want to thank you for being a real journalist. Asking the tough questions. Putting your personal safety on the line. That is old school journalism and you are a rare breed.
It is a Brave New World and in this day and age; it is clear the truth seekers are drowned in a sea of irrelevance.
Please continue to report with integrity and relevance. Speak loudly to the masses.
every cop is taught they can't violate the constitution, ie, they can't threaten a reporter at his workplace, and they can't threaten a citizen for taking pictures, threaten with arrest, force him to move away .....
this is in an officer manual called the United States Constituion and well developed and clear case law under 42 USC 1983.
When they start telling you gee, we don't know what manual section this falls under, they are positioning themselves for the eventual lawsuit in which they will claim there was no "clear legal standard" so although yes, the officer's actions were violating the constitution they get qualified immunity and thus you are thrown out of court.
throw in things like how officers get indemnified if they lose a suit, and the higher standard for vicarious liability of the city as compared to normal tort cases, and you will find that the ENTIRE SYSTEM is rigged to INSULATE ALL OFFICERS FROM ACCOUNTABILITY.
why do you think it takes killing a Native American in cold blood on video to get fired?
Why do you think DOJ can find 20% of ALL use of force cases are illegal excessive force but NOT ONE OFFICER is disciplined for that in the phoney settlement?
why do you think mcginn's statement was specifically not specific to Dominic's situation? clearly SPD does tolerate this kind of misconduct every day as they deny, defend and insulate ad nauseum.
Tell me this. How many officers have been fired for excessive force or false arrest in seattle in the last ten years?
Ian Birk, we can call it a firing. Apart from him, is there even ONE?
Jesus Christ
Chuck Connors
Johnny Cash
John Wayne
plus "Other" including "Road Dawgs" (the obnoxious biker club), "The Men's Room" (Wasn't that a gay bar within the Cadillac Grill on 15th and Madison?), and of course, Walmart and the NRA. What a piece of work.
https://www.facebook.com/john.marion.94
Samsung Mobile USA, Sarah Palin, Mitt Romney, Steilacoom Historical Museum Association, Road Dawgs MC of the United States - Tacoma Chapter, The Men's Room, Walmart, In Memory of Prescott Firefighters Lost 6/30/2013, NewsBusters.org, National Rifle Association, CNSNews.com
Grow up kid. This is how you want to be portrayed as a journalist. If I was the owner of this paper I'd find a new News Editor.
It is also true that police departments all over the country are under pressure to hire more blacks and to promote them. Could it be that sergeant Patrick Saulet is getting a pass because he is black, and a sergeant? They may know he is bad, but giving him a bye may seem the easy way out. Firing him may cause more problems that they higher up do not want to deal with.
Police everywhere are becoming more militarized, and more belligerent. As you have found, there usually is little to no consequences for their actions. Often the higher ups will praise and defend the actions of police who are clearly out of control. Until there are serious consequences like long suspensions without pay, being fired, and incarceration, all of this will continue. Most people will not care until they are a victim. By then it is too late.
It is also true that police departments all over the country are under pressure to hire more blacks and to promote them. Could it be that sergeant Patrick Saulet is getting a pass because he is black, and a sergeant? They may know he is bad, but giving him a bye may seem the easy way out. Firing him may cause more problems that they higher up do not want to deal with.
Police everywhere are becoming more militarized, and more belligerent. As you have found, there usually is little to no consequences for their actions. Often the higher ups will praise and defend the actions of police who are clearly out of control. Until there are serious consequences like long suspensions without pay, being fired, and incarceration, all of this will continue. Most people will not care until they are a victim. By then it is too late.
While eating dinner, we heard a commotion below and it turned out to be the Seattle Hempfest protest, which was being moved forward by the police that were on foot, motorcycle and via horse. At the end of the protest, in the very back of the line, was some stoner guy that reminded me of Shaggy from Scooby Doo...completely harmless and goofy, just kinda meandering along in his own baked world. In an effort to move Shaggy along, a cop behind him shoved him forward, causing him to run into the back of one of the horse cops, which in turn, caused the horse to get spooked and rare up on his back legs.
All of the cops that were around this guy didn't see what caused him to run into the horse in the first place and as such, decided to beat this guy brutally with nightsticks for at least a couple minutes. It was one of the worst things I've ever seen and it changed my opinion of police forever.
It's shame that I didn't have a cell phone with camera on me then, it would have been a Rodney King moment for Seattle.
And Marion, please come into The Stranger and bug people. That would be a great look for SPD. Maybe you could steal all the toilet paper. Or play a boombox really loud. Or continuously tickle Tim Keck. Or draw smiley faces on the front desk plexi in lipstick. Or play hide and go seek with yourself. Or just walk around yelling, "YOU'RE ALL UNDER ARREST!! Just kidding!"