My partner lost his job over the affair and I eventually resigned from mine.
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You seem like a real prize.
"Given the amount of time this is taking, and given your boyfriend's angry response when you bring the subject up, it's possible ..."
If she's putting him on blast for being methodical, he might be angry because of how she's coming at him, not the questions in particular. Dude has all sorts of reasons to be methodical and do this in such a way so that his ex isn't angry at him. They have kids, so he's gonna be interacting with the ex at a minimum until they are all 18.
Homewrecker views the ex poorly ("she tries to play tricks on him, keep the kids from him,") but treating her that way is a recipe for years of strife. Why go through that unless the ex is already making it so shitty...
I just think that paying for her lawyer is a pretty big deal; as he has no lawyer he will loose most everything to his ex-wife.
Loose loose situation. If this guy is a Knight in Shining Armor; maybe you should find a court jester.
The LW should try taking some pleasure in what she has instead of constantly complaining about what she wants.
LW, maybe he's hoping one of these fights will lead to you packing your bags and pissing off. He lost his job and now for the " new start", you guys have moved so his contact with his children is what? Every holidays or so for a week.
Another man sucked in by a woman who shows little care for his
connection to his children. And he is probably realizing now that he has sacrificed a family for a harpy.
I wonder if LW has written in before, and perhaps received either a Cheating Pass or After-the-Fact Absolution from Mr Savage.
On the other hand, LW has left a lot of damage in her wake. She also says nothing about her relationship with boyfriend's children. I think she would do well to be patient.
Your partner cheated (with you) on his wife, feels guilty about it, and is now using the divorce process to martyr himself. Forestalling your relationship is part of the "heroic" sacrifice he's making. This flogging will drag out as long as his wife wants it to. No wonder you are pissed.
Unfortunately, I have no advice on how to extract him from this enmeshment. When it's ultimatum time, you'll know. Good luck.
Occur to you he's stringing the divorce proceedings out because he misses his kids, doesn't want to finalize that story? Bit bloody late if he is.
Yes Sangu, they are both dipshits.
‘Cause I know of this one woman who did, and besides making tons of scratch (thousands a day for seeing 5-6 sets of jagged teeth behind contorted lips ain’t bad), she met the rich, brilliant man of her dreams, and is busy healing his heart and making her friends green with envy. Plus all her jokes are funny now, and I think she can fly!
Man, I wish I was an English hooker.
What IW's boyfriend wanted from the start: Avoid the real life responsibilities part of a relationship, the part where you have to get along with someone day to day cleaning up messes, compromising in arguments, and taking care of children even on the days when they're not being delightful. So he starts an affair with someone he believes he'll never have to enter the difficult part with.
Except it blew up in both their faces. He's looking at leaving one marriage to enter another. Shoot, that's not what he wanted. And she's looking at realizing that he doesn't really want her so much that he's willing to put aside everything else. They're in a holding pattern while they each reposition themselves trying to figure out how to get what they initially wanted.
I'm back to what a wrote a few columns ago about marriage proposals needing to come with an ultimatum element. IW, you've proposed marriage to your boyfriend. He's said yes but hasn't moved in the direction of setting a date and making it happen. Are you willing to walk away if he doesn't want to marry you? What if his divorce was final, and he still didn't want to commit to you? Would you try again with another married man?
Lw, *i* was a cpos who broke up her first marriage by being a cpos. And you come across to me as utterly indifferent to the wreckage you two have left in your wake. It might shock the shit out of you but your boyfriend may be hurting to the depths of his bones over this, even if it was a marriage that needed to end. If this apparent lack of empathy of yours is coming across to your boyfriend. Phew.
I suggest you read Dr. Glass (Ira glass mom). She did seminal research on affairs. The success of affair relationships is very poor. If I were you I'd stop pressuring your boyfriend - people hate that anyway - and get on building your new life yourself. Honestly from my view, after this transformatIve experience you both may decide you want separate futures.
LW also states each spouse periodically contacts the other to move things along, so the timetable doesn't seem to be dictated by one person. The progress she mentioned (splitting finances, selling a house) seems significant. Add to that there was an out of state move and probably a job search. To me, this progress doesn't seem slow.
OTOH, if it's down to the last couple things and he's dragging his feet, that doesn't seem unusual either. Perhaps he's in pain and not wanting to face the ultimate consequences of his actions. But so much has been done already (moving, selling the house, etc.), I very much doubt the two will reconcile at this point.
Impulsivity, the same reason why she pursued him in such a manner that got him fired, created an affair, etc. She obviously doesn't care how something is approached, she just wants it right now independent of collateral damage (including his kids, apparently.)
If it was about missing the kids, he'd wouldn't passively allow his wife to "keep the kids from him". He would also have a lawyer to help ensure the kids had a father in their life rather than leaving the custody arrangements to be decided by an angry, vengeful wife who uses the kids to get back at him.
@27. I'd keep in mind that LW is not a reliable narrator. So it's hard to say whether the wife is being vengeful. It's definitely a possibility. Not all spouses are. Even jilted ones. I am also curious of the "out of state" part. How out of state is it. Kansas City is in two states. Plenty of people live right across the border from one of them.
And now I'd like to say something in support of LW. Yes, her tone really puts me off. I thought she displayed a glaring lack of empathy toward the ruins they both left behind. But let's be clear. She didn't steal him. He went. And he always had the choice to... zip up his pants, go for the honorable divorce... stay in state... etc.
And frankly I wouldn't be surprised if he doesn't head on back to the state where his kids are.
Not that DS isn't very good on relationships, but I do hope that some of the people who are getting themselves involved into affairs read Shirley Glass.
She was one of the first, i think, that applied a lot of scientific method to affairs. She also looked at the long term results of affairs.
Here is the thing - Affair relationships rarely work out. Affairs aren't real as Fichu astutely noted at @20. The actual nuts and bolts of resolving conflict etc. are never addressed. The affair partners can just live in an endorpin induced bubble of fantasy. In addition, people coming out of marriages are (often) emotional messes. They make bad choices, they are drawn to bad matches. And then the emotional seas settle, they wake up, and realize that their affair partner is a terrible match and isn't very nice to begin with.
Dr. Glass has some stats to back that up. I've seen in beaucoup times anecdotally in my life. I would bet dollars to donuts the reason none of this is moving as LW wants is a combination of (1) misunderstanding of the difficulty divorcing at times and (2) reservations about the longevity of their relationship now that the endorphins are bleeding out of their systems. I'd ask LW herself to seriously consider whether she wants her BOYFRIEND as a partner. And I hope she didn't toss a good relationship just for him. Tomorrow is promised to no one.
I don't think that's how sunk cost works, if you wreck the course of six lives, you're contractually obligated to marry each other, right? Because what's one more bad decision?
It's like the epitaph for several billion failed relationships.
I'm guessing he was her supervisor.
Perhaps you mean to say that we don't know if she's reliable or not, which is a given with every letter. Unless an LW gives me good reason to think they are lying, I'm inclined to accept the situation as they present it.
There are a few here who prefer to play the Savage Love game by calling into question any facts that don't fit their preferred narratives. I don't find their comments very interesting.
So it's hard to say whether the wife is being vengeful. It's definitely a possibility.
"Vengeful" is probably going too far. But the husband has basically opened himself to being taking advantage of, and it seems to me, not at all surprisingly, that the wife has taken at least a few opportunities to take advantage of him.
Either the LW is misrepresenting the lawyer's role or this dude is seriously unable to look after his best interests for some reason.
My advice to her: end this now. Work on rebuilding your career and find someone to date who is able to commit to you and shares common goals.
Snark alert: Then, ten years in, you can have really hot sex with your affair partner and blow up your second marriage for him.
LW, how old are the kids? If they are still young then they need their father. How about you drop being so concerned with what you want and put your mind a bit to what they need.
Maybe if you showed some real love for this man ie noticed he has three offspring he is responsible for rearing, and helped him do this as well as he can from another city, then maybe he'll stop dragging his feet.
A piece of paper is not going to free him from his past.
What's not plausible is that he is paying for her attorney and doesn't have one of his own. Something got lost in the game of telephone leading up to the description in this letter.
I say this as a divorce attorney in California so HUGE GRAIN OF SALT as I don't know what state these kids are living in/the laws in that state.
With respect to the commentariat re the lawyer thing (i.e. "My partner does not have a lawyer, because he initially agreed to pay for his "hopefully-soon-to-be ex-wife's" lawyer, and can't pay for two lawyers at the same time.") It sounds like letter writer is in pro per ("pro se" in other states). This means he is representing himself. Certain states, including California, will order the higher earning spouse to pay some or all of the lower earning spouse's attorney's fees. In some cases, it makes more sense for the higher earner spouse to go it alone because paying for his own attorney fees and the spouse's attorney fees can be ruinous.
Letter writer, just because YOUR divorce took six months, does not mean another divorce will take the same length of time. In California, for instance, parties cannot be divorced until six months plus one day following the service of a petition. Legal speak aside, that means if I file for divorce from my husband and serve him with the papers today, I can't be officially divorce until 6 months from tomorrow. I can say, however, that custody often takes a very long time to work out.
In addition, soon-to-be-ex wife can be dragging things out because the support she's receiving at the moment might be better than what she'll receive after trial. That's a long and involved issue, but trust that in some states this may be the case. Also Husband might be "not moving things along" if he's in pro per because he DOESN'T KNOW HOW to move things along. Your comments and pushing might be incredibly infuriating.
All that said, if your issue is just the title (you hate dating a "married" man) then some states will allow you to bifurcate the issue of status. What that means is, he can get a judgment of divorce while they're still sorting out the finances. He'll be officially divorced and you guys are free to marry but he may still be engaged in asset separation with the ex.
If your issue is "I hate this process and the existence of his ex" then you are SOL. They have three kids. They're bound together for life. Pick a new man.
Here in Italy if you have children, it can take 4-5 YEARS and from what a lot of commenters said, that could be the case in the USA too.
My own perfectly consensual divorce with no kids involved took 20 months between lawyer to be consulted for the division of the things we owned together, civil registry offices that were having difficulties because the law changed a couple of months before we filed for divorce and they were not prepared, and us ourselves who were in no particular hurry so we took it in a slow and not-stressful way. Mind that we both had new partners at the time and none kept whining that we had to hurry.
Maybe the BF just wants to take it at the less stressful rate possible, what with the loss of job, the change of State, the kids far away, the fact that he has no lawyer and has to do it all by himself etc: get off his shoulder!!!
What he doesn't need right now is someone whining in his ear and adding on his (understandable) stress and making it all more difficult for him. And maybe trying to interpose herself between him and the kids. I wonder WHO decided that LW and BF had to live in another State, probably far away from dangerous past, AKA dangerous kids and ex-wife. 'Cos all considered, that doesn't sound as a smart move to me.
How old are you, three? Gee!
(I'm also wondering about the job loss: if one was the boss of another - which is suggested by the fact that only him lost his job - that was not a smart move, too. Maybe it would be best to DEOA - dump each other already - after all)
I'm sure she asked for a new start, because geographic "cures" for crushing neurosis and jealousy always work! I wonder how long before he moves back...
Or maybe he's really dragging his feet and postponing things for no reasons at all except his laziness or his own anxiety and foibles... But again, constantly whining is not going to get him doing anything, except maybe dumping LW.
Having a "dragging feet BF" myself, I know that unless something is really really compelling, it's better to let him take his own time. It's annoying and it's childish and most of the times it means that he or we'll have some messes to clean up ahead of us, but if that is a personality trait, I can leave him, kill him or keep him as he is.