BOLD telling someone that you don't want to see them any more is hard, and for many women dangerous. So it is much easier to tell a partner that you need "a break" that eventually becomes permanent.
Right now, getting dumped hurts, but the reality is that there is no dating without getting hurt, and occasionally hurting someone else's feelings. So while you have every right to feel down now, you just have to get back out dating again. There is a world of potential partners, and nothing salves the hurt from an old love, like a new love.
And BOLD, you and your ex are only 22. That's really young to know yourself and to expect that your partner will know herself enough that you can successfully pick a life partner. What you had is a six month relationship, and one in which you grew as a person. That qualifies as a successful relationship at your age, and now it's time to move on.
The end of this letter got super squicky. Gun ownership + implied threat of retaliation. Gee, I wonder why this chick would choose a less-direct way of getting this guy out of her life?
I appreciate Dan taking the high road in his answer, and hope the LW takes it all to heart.
Also? You're both 22! a six-month relationship is a lifetime at that age.
I am absolutely with #1 here: you have had a successful relationship! Celebrate it and be grateful that you are a stronger, better person for the experience. Good for you. Now take Dan's advice and get yourself out and about. It's summer!
"our opinions of people differ," "I’m very good at being an asshole," "anytime you know personal things about people, its very easy to be a cruel piece of trash"...
Ummm, hmmm.
Take it from someone who's been there more than once. When the woman says she needs a "break" what she really means is, "Hasta la vista, loser – you ain't the one for me." Not that you are necessarily the loser in this situation, you just are in her mind. And that's all that matters, 'cause she ain't gonna change it.
So– two possibilities...
1) She's not in a place where she can commit, for a thousand possible unknowable female reasons. If so she might come to her senses down the line. I had one of my girlfriends dump me and then tell me a couple years later she thought it was a big mistake on her part and she regretted it. Too little, too late, as we had both moved on, but I was able to rekindle a platonic friendship with her.
2) You actually are the asshole and you're so good at it that unless you take a hard look at that face in the mirror you will be destined to repeat this scenario for the rest of your life.
In my early twenties I got into a relationship with another guy who was 30. He was very different from me, and had lots of qualities I admired. And he dumped me after six months because I got too possessive, too needy, and was just not ready to pull my own weight in a serious relationship.
Well, he was right about my failings. I was devastated at first, of course, but over the next couple of years I managed to absorb what I'd learned from him on how to approach the world, and ended up a way better person - I managed to get rid of the jealousy and possessiveness, among other things, and I'll always be grateful for what I got out of that relationship.
So - whatever happens, like Dan says, you've learned more about being a better person - and that progress can continue. Treating her civilly at this point will bring you some personal benefit in the future, too - you don't want to be 30 looking back and thinking "what an asshole I was".
"The end of this letter got super squicky. Gun ownership + implied threat of retaliation. Gee, I wonder why this chick would choose a less-direct way of getting this guy out of her life?"
Yeah. And then pair that up with his off-hand attempt to blackmail Dan. If that's an accurate picture of how he treats everyone, then I don't blame her for looking for the door. Carefully.
If you can countenance voting for Trump, that is an intrinsically dumpable offence, period. I honestly cannot imagine any quality you might have that could redeem you from something so heinous. I like to think of myself as a person who is capable of nuance and able to see shades of grey and all that but there is just no other side to this issue.
Maybe use this opportunity further your efforts at self-improvement until, at a minimum, you can promise that you will vote Dem. I suspect it'll improve your romantic prospects a thousandfold.
Also maybe read The Gift of Fear and recognize what is (or could very reasonably be perceived as) dangerous and stalkerish about your approach to this woman and work hard on those things.
Get real, Goodspaceguy has got no chance. Is he even actually running for president? Your Martian colony is doomed to failure and was a joke of an issue to begin with. Unlike my man Vermin Supreme who finished fourth in the New Hampshire state primary and has already pledged to fund a flying monkey defense system as part of his platform agenda. And he also wears a boot on his head.
If this is the "better" LW, I shudder at the thought of the worse.
Giving the Democratic party a monopoly on the Decent Human Being Card is just giving that party full license to corrupt itself. But it will make it easy to keep the scorecard.
LW, don't listen to @4. I doubt seriously the woman is saying "Hasta la vista, loser!" at all. From what you've written, it is more likely she's thinking, "I can easily see myself being raped at gunpoint by this guy, or coming home and finding him in my living room, holding one of his handguns, demanding to get back together with me. He might kill himself in front of me, or he might kill me first, then kill himself. The best solution I have is a slow fade."
I doubt she is laughing at you, or holds you in contempt. Everything you've written, "I’m crazy about this girl," "I’m very good at being an asshole," "My definition of who I was as an individual changed to include her," screams out **I'm an insecure, immature man who can't handle rejection. I am likely to use my guns on this woman I profess to love.**
She thinks that way because many men before you have stalked, threatened, and murdered countless women that broke up with them, or just suggested it.
She has dumped you. Get used to it. She sees you as a nutjob, and possibly you are. If you think of harming anyone over this, do the right thing and do it to yourself first before you kill anyone else.
@18: How did you derive that nonsense? I obviously didn't agree with that he should harm himself; and you can't deduce from my saying that that I then feel he should harm her.
LW, a break means it's over. She doesn't want to continue your relationship anymore. It sounds like you got serious about her very quickly, and she isn't ready to be that serious. These days 22 is very young to sign up for forever. I can't speak for men, but many (probably most) women don't want all the responsibility and hard work of serious relationship/marriage/home/children in their twenties anymore. There are also women who never want those things. She might want to go to grad school, travel, work on her career, explore the world, meet lots of people, experience life and be carefree. Women have a harder time doing that while in a committed relationship/marriage/married with children than men. There are graduate programs/bosses/companies that actively discriminate against married women and women with children, because they want people who can devote themselves and their time/energy completely to their degree/job/career.
It sounds like you had a great experience, and now you know what makes you happy. You both gained from your relationship. If she told you secrets that could be used to hurt her, then she did/does genuinely cared for you. You two are just at different stages in life. You're looking for best friend/future wife, and she's looking for less seriousness and less responsibility, more fun and discovery. That's why she said there's a conflict between heart and mind. She knows she's not ready for serious relationships, and you are. She didn't want to string you along and make it harder for both of you later when you're both more attached. She didn't want to hurt you or lead you on, or have you change more of your life to fit with hers. Please listen to Dan, don't use what she told you because she liked and trusted you to hurt her. It will destroy all your great memories and your self regard. You're only 22, you have so many years to meet different women, date and learn about them and yourself. Go have fun. Then you can be sure when you do make a commitment to someone, it is right for both of you.
Don't plot revenge, she didn't lie to you or harm you. She trusted you, don't be someone who can't be trusted. Stalking is illegal and will stop you from moving on and enjoying life, make you feel bad about yourself, and get you in a mess trouble with the law. Say no to Loki. Move on.
Poor BOLD, his first broken heart. BOLD, go watch High Fidelity several times. Go get drunk. Do not fuck someone else, in case she actually does decide she wants you back. Don't do anything she'd be pissed off about if she found out later. However, I'm with Dan; she wants to break up but she feared retaliation, and hopes you'll get the hint and move on after a period of silence.
Or you could just message her once, let her know you are finding it difficult being on a break with no contact and no idea what it means, and also ask her to tell you straight if she actually wants to break up. At least that way you will know. If she genuinely just wants space for a while, then it is reasonable to negotiate a time to revisit things, like in two weeks or a month or whatever. Then meet up, see how it feels. Who knows it might even be good.
If you do break up it will be horrible for a while as you deal with the disappointment, but you are obviously not wanting to end up being disappointed in yourself by engaging in trashy or assholish ways. Find ways to keep calm and distracted, it helps to deal with all kinds of stuff in life. Good luck.
I told her the third time I met her I was looking for a best friend and to invest in and adventure through life with
this is classic head-over-heels crap. you weirded her out.
Maybe she is pulling the plug because she's weirded out, but if laying out his cards early (and perhaps pointlessly) were the problem they would never have lasted six months.
Sax @26: I agree. He told her what he was looking for in a relationship; he didn't, by this account, jump straight into "and I think it's you!" I think the initial infatuation just wore off for her, and she realised they weren't compatible. Ie, "She's just not that into you."
Yikes. I wish the girlfriend would write in so Dan could tell her to stay on her break. This guy is a creep. Maybe he'll outgrow his creepiness, but right now he seems to think that she somehow owes him for the extreme sacrifices he has made in not being an asshole and in getting a grownup job. Then he sounds like he wants a cookie for not retaliating against her (yet) for leaving him even though being a not-asshole makes him entitled to her. CREEP. I hope the girl stays on her break.
Besides, they are 22. It's highly unlikely they were ever going to stay together forever and ever and ever in the first place. Why would a 22 year old go on a break or dump him? Because she's 22 and the world is a big exciting place.
@25 skeptical about the whole "break" thing. Giver a month (no more) to figure things out, but don't hold your breath for a happy ending. In the history of the world, "breaks", especially at 22, mean "permanent break up."
LW - a couple things. Dan makes a point of saying you are the one who made yourself a better person - you should really latch on to that. It feels from reading your letter like you have a bit of an unhealthy attachment to this woman. If you can continue to be a "better person" without her in your life, then good for you. If you quickly fall back into old habits, then your relationship was less of a partnership and more of an emotional dependence and that's something that needs to be addressed sooner than later.
As for retaliation ... even using that term is disturbing. It implies she attacked you in some way - you can't retaliate against someone unless someone is the aggressor. And it's very likely that after 6 months together she learned this about you; that you would see being left as an act of aggression. She's just doing what's best for her, and if you care about her that's exactly what you should want her to do. What's best for you is to start moving on.
Whatever you do, if you talk to her don't use language that implies some kind of dependency on her: 'I need you', 'I'm miserable without you', etc. People get understandably cautious when confronted like that. Having her in your life made you happier than not having her in your life, but you can still be happy without her, and you'll find someone else that makes you happy. Good luck.
@25: No, no, no. Stalking the girl, who may be trying to get away from a guy she's scared of dumping outright, and insisting she either dumps him outright or gets back together with him is a horrible move. If I were LW's girl, that would freak me out. LW said he doesn't want to be an asshole, so he needs to stay back. This is one of those "if you love something, let it go. If it comes back, it is yours; if it does not, it never was" cases.
"Our experiences in the world are very different, and as such our opinions of people differ"
Ah. I suspect the LW is far more negative than he realizes and at some point that—along with his support of Trump and love of guns—led her to quickly back away slowly. (sic)
You know, I rarely use this term, because its so loaded and so unnecessary, but I looked at his letter and thought... is that male entitlement? I know, its a grenade to lob. Its not actually a thought that crosses my mind very often, so I have been stewing on it.
And have reached the conclusion, its just entitlement - no need to be gendered about it. Thinking of my early twenties and my friends at the time, I could completely see a man or a woman taking the action this guy has - calling, texting, and wanting to lash out and hurt someone. We* feel entitled, male or female, to the other person's body, love, life, because we* have invested ourselves into the relationship. Its an ugly but understandable quid pro quo.
LW, I am going to give you the same benefit of the doubt I have the guy last week with the sick wife. You are angry and so the dark emotions in your soul is bubbling up, past the goodness, the rational fair mind that you have. And that darkness is flowing on the page. You are young. I can imagine penning some stuff like this when you were this age. The question is not that you have bad feelings about this, but what you do with it. That is what makes the difference between the douche and the hurting guy.
So, I'd recommend cutting all contact. Delete her number. Unfriend her. Until some of these feelings simmer down, and they will. I'd also take your letter and Dan's reply, and fold it up and stick it in your back pocket (figuratively) for a while. When your emotions simmer down - and they will, I promise - take it out and re-read what you said, and think about some of the errors in your thought process.
Such as:
(1) Being a grade a asshole to people for no other reason than to be an asshole is not good and not a good way to be.
(2) Why does she owe you for your decision to be a better person? This is touchy. You need to talk to the aforementioned cesspool and ask some uncomfortable questions, such as:
(a) is choosing to act as a better person to keep someone else in your life really being a better person? or just faking it? Because it smacks of the nice guy syndrome - "I am nice to some girl so she is obligated to fall in love with me." Which is more important? To be the better person or to fake it to manipulate someone else?
(b) what do we owe one another in relationships and how does that change as a relationship becomes more or less serious? What is your obligation to her? Are you obligated to stay with her forever, just because she treats you nicely? What if you fall out of love?
(c) Revenge. Why would it be appropriate in this situation? Why do you want to hurt her? Because she hurt you? Unpack that hurt. What did she do to you beyond leaving?
(d) Why does how you present yourself here set off alarm bells with many of the commentors. Why would mentioning guns and revenge scare the heck out of a woman. Put yourself in your ex girlfriend's shoes. How would it feel to be out of love of someone but to hear them make comments like that. How would you feel if an ex you broke up with wanted to key your car or slash your tires?
In the end, I think the others who have said she's doing the fade are probably right. Emotions are not static. We fall in love and out of love. You know this rationally. Its hard to take emotionally, especially when you are so much in love. But I'd bet men just as much as women are deluded by the hollywood stereotype romcoms. The truth is, in real life, those aren't cool, those are creepy.
Good luck.
PS. NO REVENGE. Just close your phone and walk away.....
She dumped him because on the third date he was making life plans for them. No way in hell that's healthy. And the end of his letter, creepy. She realized it and eased him out of her life. Smart move on her part. I just hope the letter writer is adult enough to accept iwhat Dan said and move on. I have my doubts though.
LW, I've known, uh, one person who was an asshole at about your age, and got better. So it can happen. You know what "very good at being an asshole" gets you in the end, right?
That letter was like a microcosm of their relationship. Started by rooting for him and ended with hoping the girl will be safe.
My guess is that after the initial glow of dating started to diminish back to reality his red flags started to come more clearly into view. Sounds like she's trying to get out of it without a big showdown, which I can't blame her for with his thinly veiled threats.
I appreciate Dan's respectful, compassionate, and thoughtful response.
I wouldn't want to provoke the letter writer either.
Because, DUDE! The subtle and implied threats you include...my goodness. You're obviously spinning things in your favor--we all do that to some extent--but the hints of asshole and resentment and danger remain in some of your phrasing. And really, why do we need to know that you're into guns? That little factoid raised the stakes of implied threats from "inexperienced young man with some warning flags of potential abusiveness" to "okay, this might not end with him stalking her, and her seeking a restraining order...the potential stakes here are life and death."
Get some help dude. And don't talk about being a gun owner in the context of being unhappy and confused because you're possibly terrified ex-girlfriend has carefully couched her break up with you in a way that reduces the danger to her of you taking her life.
LW, break up with her. She's not treating you as a partner or friend, so break it off, and move on with your life. It takes a while to get to know someone, beyond the initial infatuation. Now you are seeing her more clearly: she's not part of who you are, she's a young woman trying to find her place in the world, she's not perfect, and she's not right for you.
BOLD scared her away being too needy and clingy early out of the gates (light texting for a week? WTF is NORMAL texting then?). She's gone, no question, BOLD needs to keep fishing.
And like other commenters, I think BOLD probably has jerk/assface/unlikeable qualities he downplays in the letter - qualities the love of his life likely sussed then decided to cut the tether. Add that at 22 he's not even past the sniffing butt phase with women.
For what it's worth, I don't think that telling her early on that he really liked her ("I told her the third time I met her I was looking for a best friend and to invest in and adventure through life with") was what weirded her out. After all, she continued to date him another 5+ months.
I just think that she saw too many incompatibilities and is no longer interested and is trying (badly) to do a sort of slow fade either because she's immature and doesn't want to deal with the unpleasantness of a direct breakup, or because she's afraid it will go down especially badly, given that he mentions guns and revenge and how easy it is for him to be an asshole. It might be some combination of the two.
BOLD, you two weren't meant to be. I know how hard it is to be the one who gets dumped, to realize that someone you love doesn't love you back. It hurts and it's being made more confusing because the way your ex-girlfriend--and yes, she is an ex--did it, you are kept emotionally hanging on, waiting to see when she'll come back, wondering what is going on.
That wasn't right of her.
But don't try to get revenge; don't threaten her safety or her life; don't start being the asshole you were on the way to being. You had something that was sweet while it lasted. Try to use this opportunity to grow and be more like the kind of person you want to attract the next time. Believe me, at 22, there will be a "next time."
If there's one thing I know, it's this: you can't make someone love you. No matter how much you might want to. But you can make someone hate you. Try to put love, not hate, out into the world. You attract what you are; you reap what you sow.
@ BiDanFan High Fidelity is a great movie, but I think it's the wrong choice for BOLD at this point. He should watch Harold and Maude, and not just because it's one of my favorites. It's a great film about first love, and the growth that comes with losing it.
He could watch both, but he should definitely watch Harold and Maude first.
I'm astonished that there's been only one comment on the last sentence of this letter! He'll commit to not voting for Trump if an advice columnist can help him get his girl back? What a douche move! (Notice he doesn't say he'll he'll vote for Hillary, just that he won't vote for Trump.) I suspect @16 hit the nail on the head, this guy is a Bernie Bro who hates Hillary.
He's young and immature, so perhaps I should be cutting him some slack and feeling a little empathy - he's obviously hurting emotionally. But on the other hand, young and immature with a gun is a dangerous combination.
@LW's ex-girlfriend, I think the reason BOLD mentioned his love of guns and your discomfort with that is that he knows that you left because he scared you. He sounds really scary. Unless you have solid reasons (not a hunch or residual affection for him) to believe he's not dangerous, you should probably move, change your name and/or try to get into the witness protection program. This guy sounds dangerous.
Some Old Nobodaddy @15, there's a typo in your second-to-last sentence. You accidentally put the word "possibly" in the middle of the sentence "She sees you as a nutjob, and you are." Oops. I have strange typos sometimes too. Your last sentence sounds like something I'd say. I hope nobody gets killed, but unless this guy changes his way of thinking, he sounds like somebody who will eventually kill someone. If that happens, and I really hope it doesn't, I join you in hoping that he does his killing all by himself with nobody else in the room.
LW, A lot of people think you're dangerous. Maybe you should get that checked out.
The whole letter is an odd mix of almost plaintive niavete and whiff-of-Aspie determinism. You gotta add that you 'assume' she's het after 6 months of dating? Dude, no-fuckin'-body, not Dan, not HAL, not the High Rinpoche or the Big Booty Ho of Borneo, could tell from a distance if she met someone, got sick of you, or what caused the breakup, I mean, the break
. Though as others have said, 6 months is a long time to lie, unless you left out coming into fabulous riches at age 23 or having an ankle-slapping trouser snake or something.
Doesn't sound like she's telling, I'm betting that when 'she made it clear she needed space ENTIRELY isolated from (you,)' it was given in a curt and clear manner. The only thing you can do now is push her away further, and maybe scare her.
22 is prime age for dating around, we all did it, got dumped and dumped others, and often thought the world was ending. It's a bitch at the time, but it's better than arranged marriage.
“I'm good at being an asshole” is the kind of braggadoccio many young people engage in with the thought that it gives them flava; with guys it tends towards 'I'm a badass/very intense/a heavy partier,' girls with 'I'm high maintenance/spoiled/run through guys like a sitdown mower.' You'll hopefully look back on this and cringe, but please, LW, go ahead and stop taking an angry pride in this. It's like bragging about being able to cheat restaurant servers out of money, nobody wants to be known as, or with, an 'asshole' for a reason.
I don't look down on hunting, as long as you track what you hit, and then eat it, but what is your profession that you go armed during the day, as your letter implies? I can think of a couple of jobs where this would be a thing, many more where it wouldn't.
And I'll add to the chorus that the fact that you're having to talk yourself out of retaliation, not because she banged your brother on your wedding day, but because she had the temerity to break up with you, is...insalubrious.
“Nobody dumps BOLD! Yes, lawd, gonna put up all those bikini shots she sent me, and put 'em up on Redtube with her home address, that'll show her!” (Snaps in Z-formation.)
@23 Bi – I think he should shun High Fidelity like an Amway convention; Cusack ends up getting the girl in the end, and it's better for BOLD to get on with his life, as Cusack said in Say Anything, start out depressed, anything good that happens will be a pleasant surprise. He should absolutely not not-date other girls now, that'll just keep him and his blue balls pining for Her. Making him progressively more grumpy and less dateable.
Moviewise, closest fit I can think of is '500 Days of Summer,' where JGL has a nice time with the girl, and she dumps him, and he doesn't get her back. It's a thing that happens.
If I was a woman, and knew my partner had guns, even if they were generally reasonable, I would not want an honest straight-forward breakup either. Sure, you are unlikely to go crazy and murder her, her friends/family/new lover etc. but even a small chance is enough reason to treat you like you might. Disappointment and heartbreak makes some people crazy, and guns make crazy easy to act upon.
Most guys have had this happen more than once, particularly when they are young and dating someone who is also young. I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but your relationship is very likely over. There is a very, very high probability that she's seeing someone else, or at the minimum, has someone else on deck. I could be wrong, but in 20+ years of my own and my friends' experiences, this is ALWAYS the case. This move is textbook for young women who want to be out of a relationship while still being "nice", simultaneously avoiding any unpleasantries/confrontations or uncomfortable honesty, and clearing her conscience and calendar to get focused on and physical with someone else. I've seen this many, many times with my friends and myself for many years.
Girls who have found guys they want to keep and really like don't just say they want a break with no contact because you forgot to do the dishes or don't like Gossip Girl or even if they disagree with something political. Most straight girls aren't going to clear you to do whatever and whoever you like if they are still interested in you and are local.
There is nothing you can do or say to change this (believe me, I've tried).
The reason why you haven't heard from her is because she isn't thinking of you, right now she likely feels slightly guilty, but relieved the conversation is over, and you pestering her while she's focusing on someone else isn't going to work out in your favor. In her mind there's nothing left to talk about, and what she was trying to say was "Please go away and don't make a scene." Continuing to insist on contacting her is just going to irritate her.
In answer to your question, yes, being a somewhat cocky dick is often seen as confident and alpha, particularly for young girls. It CAN be very appealing to some women, sometimes. This is likely not one of those times. She's already rejecting you, you putting on the asshole act is just going to confirm that she's made the right decision.
So what to do now? Do as she says. DON'T talk to her. DON'T text her. DON'T contact her in any way. DO NOT try to talk to her and tell her how great she was for you. You can always say that later, but if you say it now, it makes you look weak and too invested in the relationship. Say nothing. If she wants space, make her feel like Buzz Aldrin. The only thing you can do to influence her behavior now is to MAKE HER MISS YOU. So go dark. Meanwhile, you're 22. Hang out with your friends. Go out and meet some new girls. Have sex with some strangers. Work on your career. Take a trip somewhere. Get a new haircut and buy some new clothes if you have the means. Learn to dress really, really well. Work out a lot, get that six pack. Hang out with your guy friends. Learn to cook four fantastic meals and cook them for four different women. Be a better you.
If you are sad (and you will be and should be for a while) allow yourself a bit of time to feel sad, then stop doing that and get back into the game after a bit. DON'T drink yourself stupid. DON'T sit around and mope all the time. And please, after a week or two, no bitching to your friends about her. We're moving on here.
I'll tell you that there is a very small possibility that I've got this wrong and she does just need some time to herself. If that's the case, then giving her that is a good thing. Let her miss you, and if she does come back you'll be a better, stronger, smarter, wealthier, more attractive person.
She asked you not to contact her, yet you've contacted her at least twice, confirming her concerns, I'm sure. Any further contact from you is harassment. Period.
And I agree with the sentiment that considering voting for Trump is a valid reason to break up - I'd be worried that Bold has the same inability to see his girlfriend as a whole person.
This guy is enough to give pause to all of us who are "wary of guns." He comes across as the stereotype of an insecure male gun owner—who fees the need to carry his gun for protection (from what? ...black bogie men? ...ISIS terrorists? ...little green men from Mars?). My guess is that, over the course of many months, eventually he made some insensitive comment(s) that clued her in to who he really was. And he shows very little, if any, introspection into the vibe he gave off to her ...the just-under-the-surface implied violence in his letter is no doubt an extension of this vibe. Sadly, we'll never know the outcome, but here's hoping this woman stays safe...
A 'break' is often a precursor to break up, but it's hard for me to say here, because BOLD may have changed her definition of what it meant by refusing to honor her need not to have contact during the break. His refusal to respect her request may have taken it from "I need to think" to "Yeah, I'm done thinking, control freak. Buh bye!"
Throw in the red flags so many other commenters have already pointed out - his talent in the Assholery Division, his belief that he deserves credit for not immediately reacting as a 'cruel piece of trash' (that's the default setting for decent people, not cause for a blue ribbon pinned on you), and his weird 'p.s. I have guns out the wazoo' bit, and I'd say the female population in his area is better off putting him on a break before they even meet him.
If BOLD's g/f had written Dan, giving the self-descriptions he uses about himself, I'd tell her to run like the almighty wind.
Re: guns
I am very anti-gun, but I interpreted BOLD's inclusion of his guns in his letter as indicating they were a point of contention between himself and his ex-girlfriend, likely the reason for her leaving.
Re: High Fidelity
I think this is a good movie for a recently dumped 22-year-old because its message is that in life, you can expect to go through a lot of relationships that you expected would last. It's about moving on.
You guys are reading WAYYY too much into the fact he mentioned he owns a weapon. The impression I got was that he is wondering if his pro-gun stance is what turned this girl off, despite being on the same page with everything else politically. I don't read this angle of violence and fear of this guy some of the commenters have at all. Not every person who owns a gun is a homicidal maniac (1 in 3 Americans have a gun of some sort), in fact millions of people own guns and have never been involved in a single violent event in their lives. Yes, our gun laws absolutely need some changes, but don't be so quick to draw broad conclusions from a single comment like that. I don't think this guy is dangerous just because his heart is broken.
As for the being cruel question, that wasn't a question about violence. Young men see every single day that the attractive young women they desire are very often attracted to and enamored with strong, cocky, confident, self promoting, loud, kinda dicky guys who are often self centered, slightly arrogant and sometimes aren't the nicest or most thoughtful people. Think Bob Sugar from Jerry Maguire, or Baldwin in Glengarry Glen Ross. Guys see this and wonder 'hey is this the reason why I'm being passed over? Am I being too nice? Don't girls want to be with a nice guy? Do assholes finish first?" As a "nice guy" myself when I was younger, this was a source of constant irritation and bewilderment. It didn't make sense to me.
Truth is, sometimes assholes do finish first. But not because they're assholes. There is plenty of evidence that suggests that young, in demand women aren't really all that interested in being in a relationship with someone who is more invested in it than they are, particularly early on. They tend to want to chase someone. Which makes a "nice guy" boring very quickly. These dicky guys are EXCITING and something of a challenge to these women. They know where all the parties are. They know where all the cool bars are. They're comfortable walking over people to get what they want. They are the life of the party and the leader of the pack. The fact that they're self centered assholes is really secondary. I've seen over and over and over again what women will always leave a nice guy because he's boring for a dick if he's fun and exciting. (Of course, it might not last, but that's different conversation) That's just how people are wired. Guy need to be taught to focus more on being fun and exciting part rather than the asshole part. This is very, very tough to get for a lot of men, as we're just not tuned in to the difference, and that kind of cocky personality is very hard to imitate and get the response that people who do it naturally get.
Of course this doesn't mean everyone everywhere is like this, there's as much variation in what attracts people as their are people. But a lot of people are like this. So don't worry, this guy was just wondering if he needs to be more of an asshole to this girl to get her back. He shouldn't, but he shouldn't be weak and deferential either. His best move right now is to be unavailable, and if they do interact by chance, to not be unfriendly, but rather slightly aloof, busy, and uninterested in her.
Darren: He didn't mention he owns a weapon. He didn't mention how many weapons he owns. "I know she is wary of firearms, which I carry and/or own, for sport, hunting, and personal defense." Generally, the gun one would use for hunting is not the same sort of gun one would use for personal defense. So I suspect there is more than one gun here. Most lefties would run away from anyone who owns more than one gun.
I also don't think the guy is dangerous just because his heart is broken. I think the guy is potentially dangerous because his heart is broken, he's admitted to being "very good at being an asshole" and feeling tempted to "be a cruel piece of trash," and he owns probably more than one weapon. 1 + 1 + 1 = run.
Right now, getting dumped hurts, but the reality is that there is no dating without getting hurt, and occasionally hurting someone else's feelings. So while you have every right to feel down now, you just have to get back out dating again. There is a world of potential partners, and nothing salves the hurt from an old love, like a new love.
And BOLD, you and your ex are only 22. That's really young to know yourself and to expect that your partner will know herself enough that you can successfully pick a life partner. What you had is a six month relationship, and one in which you grew as a person. That qualifies as a successful relationship at your age, and now it's time to move on.
I appreciate Dan taking the high road in his answer, and hope the LW takes it all to heart.
Also? You're both 22! a six-month relationship is a lifetime at that age.
Ummm, hmmm.
Take it from someone who's been there more than once. When the woman says she needs a "break" what she really means is, "Hasta la vista, loser – you ain't the one for me." Not that you are necessarily the loser in this situation, you just are in her mind. And that's all that matters, 'cause she ain't gonna change it.
So– two possibilities...
1) She's not in a place where she can commit, for a thousand possible unknowable female reasons. If so she might come to her senses down the line. I had one of my girlfriends dump me and then tell me a couple years later she thought it was a big mistake on her part and she regretted it. Too little, too late, as we had both moved on, but I was able to rekindle a platonic friendship with her.
2) You actually are the asshole and you're so good at it that unless you take a hard look at that face in the mirror you will be destined to repeat this scenario for the rest of your life.
Well, he was right about my failings. I was devastated at first, of course, but over the next couple of years I managed to absorb what I'd learned from him on how to approach the world, and ended up a way better person - I managed to get rid of the jealousy and possessiveness, among other things, and I'll always be grateful for what I got out of that relationship.
So - whatever happens, like Dan says, you've learned more about being a better person - and that progress can continue. Treating her civilly at this point will bring you some personal benefit in the future, too - you don't want to be 30 looking back and thinking "what an asshole I was".
this is classic head-over-heels crap. you weirded her out.
Yeah. And then pair that up with his off-hand attempt to blackmail Dan. If that's an accurate picture of how he treats everyone, then I don't blame her for looking for the door. Carefully.
Maybe use this opportunity further your efforts at self-improvement until, at a minimum, you can promise that you will vote Dem. I suspect it'll improve your romantic prospects a thousandfold.
Get real, Goodspaceguy has got no chance. Is he even actually running for president? Your Martian colony is doomed to failure and was a joke of an issue to begin with. Unlike my man Vermin Supreme who finished fourth in the New Hampshire state primary and has already pledged to fund a flying monkey defense system as part of his platform agenda. And he also wears a boot on his head.
Giving the Democratic party a monopoly on the Decent Human Being Card is just giving that party full license to corrupt itself. But it will make it easy to keep the scorecard.
I doubt she is laughing at you, or holds you in contempt. Everything you've written, "I’m crazy about this girl," "I’m very good at being an asshole," "My definition of who I was as an individual changed to include her," screams out **I'm an insecure, immature man who can't handle rejection. I am likely to use my guns on this woman I profess to love.**
She thinks that way because many men before you have stalked, threatened, and murdered countless women that broke up with them, or just suggested it.
She has dumped you. Get used to it. She sees you as a nutjob, and possibly you are. If you think of harming anyone over this, do the right thing and do it to yourself first before you kill anyone else.
I have a funny feeling that they meet working on Bernie's campaign. She is ok with Hillary, and the LW isn't.
I read the entire last sentence, including the conditional clause that opens the sentence.
It sounds like you had a great experience, and now you know what makes you happy. You both gained from your relationship. If she told you secrets that could be used to hurt her, then she did/does genuinely cared for you. You two are just at different stages in life. You're looking for best friend/future wife, and she's looking for less seriousness and less responsibility, more fun and discovery. That's why she said there's a conflict between heart and mind. She knows she's not ready for serious relationships, and you are. She didn't want to string you along and make it harder for both of you later when you're both more attached. She didn't want to hurt you or lead you on, or have you change more of your life to fit with hers. Please listen to Dan, don't use what she told you because she liked and trusted you to hurt her. It will destroy all your great memories and your self regard. You're only 22, you have so many years to meet different women, date and learn about them and yourself. Go have fun. Then you can be sure when you do make a commitment to someone, it is right for both of you.
Don't plot revenge, she didn't lie to you or harm you. She trusted you, don't be someone who can't be trusted. Stalking is illegal and will stop you from moving on and enjoying life, make you feel bad about yourself, and get you in a mess trouble with the law. Say no to Loki. Move on.
If you do break up it will be horrible for a while as you deal with the disappointment, but you are obviously not wanting to end up being disappointed in yourself by engaging in trashy or assholish ways. Find ways to keep calm and distracted, it helps to deal with all kinds of stuff in life. Good luck.
@7:
Maybe she is pulling the plug because she's weirded out, but if laying out his cards early (and perhaps pointlessly) were the problem they would never have lasted six months.
Besides, they are 22. It's highly unlikely they were ever going to stay together forever and ever and ever in the first place. Why would a 22 year old go on a break or dump him? Because she's 22 and the world is a big exciting place.
Loads of straight-up unvarnished advice being offered here -- just a repeat of Dan, really, but harsher.
Does he hear this? Does he know about the fear women have of angry ex's? Will he read that book mentioned?
He did a great thing writing in for advice. The question is -- will he take it?
As for retaliation ... even using that term is disturbing. It implies she attacked you in some way - you can't retaliate against someone unless someone is the aggressor. And it's very likely that after 6 months together she learned this about you; that you would see being left as an act of aggression. She's just doing what's best for her, and if you care about her that's exactly what you should want her to do. What's best for you is to start moving on.
Whatever you do, if you talk to her don't use language that implies some kind of dependency on her: 'I need you', 'I'm miserable without you', etc. People get understandably cautious when confronted like that. Having her in your life made you happier than not having her in your life, but you can still be happy without her, and you'll find someone else that makes you happy. Good luck.
There is no such thing as a break.
There is no such thing as a break.
There is no such thing as a break.
And while we're at it: When somebody says "It's not you, it's me," always flip the pronouns.
Ah. I suspect the LW is far more negative than he realizes and at some point that—along with his support of Trump and love of guns—led her to quickly back away slowly. (sic)
And have reached the conclusion, its just entitlement - no need to be gendered about it. Thinking of my early twenties and my friends at the time, I could completely see a man or a woman taking the action this guy has - calling, texting, and wanting to lash out and hurt someone. We* feel entitled, male or female, to the other person's body, love, life, because we* have invested ourselves into the relationship. Its an ugly but understandable quid pro quo.
LW, I am going to give you the same benefit of the doubt I have the guy last week with the sick wife. You are angry and so the dark emotions in your soul is bubbling up, past the goodness, the rational fair mind that you have. And that darkness is flowing on the page. You are young. I can imagine penning some stuff like this when you were this age. The question is not that you have bad feelings about this, but what you do with it. That is what makes the difference between the douche and the hurting guy.
So, I'd recommend cutting all contact. Delete her number. Unfriend her. Until some of these feelings simmer down, and they will. I'd also take your letter and Dan's reply, and fold it up and stick it in your back pocket (figuratively) for a while. When your emotions simmer down - and they will, I promise - take it out and re-read what you said, and think about some of the errors in your thought process.
Such as:
(1) Being a grade a asshole to people for no other reason than to be an asshole is not good and not a good way to be.
(2) Why does she owe you for your decision to be a better person? This is touchy. You need to talk to the aforementioned cesspool and ask some uncomfortable questions, such as:
(a) is choosing to act as a better person to keep someone else in your life really being a better person? or just faking it? Because it smacks of the nice guy syndrome - "I am nice to some girl so she is obligated to fall in love with me." Which is more important? To be the better person or to fake it to manipulate someone else?
(b) what do we owe one another in relationships and how does that change as a relationship becomes more or less serious? What is your obligation to her? Are you obligated to stay with her forever, just because she treats you nicely? What if you fall out of love?
(c) Revenge. Why would it be appropriate in this situation? Why do you want to hurt her? Because she hurt you? Unpack that hurt. What did she do to you beyond leaving?
(d) Why does how you present yourself here set off alarm bells with many of the commentors. Why would mentioning guns and revenge scare the heck out of a woman. Put yourself in your ex girlfriend's shoes. How would it feel to be out of love of someone but to hear them make comments like that. How would you feel if an ex you broke up with wanted to key your car or slash your tires?
In the end, I think the others who have said she's doing the fade are probably right. Emotions are not static. We fall in love and out of love. You know this rationally. Its hard to take emotionally, especially when you are so much in love. But I'd bet men just as much as women are deluded by the hollywood stereotype romcoms. The truth is, in real life, those aren't cool, those are creepy.
Good luck.
PS. NO REVENGE. Just close your phone and walk away.....
LW, I've known, uh, one person who was an asshole at about your age, and got better. So it can happen. You know what "very good at being an asshole" gets you in the end, right?
My guess is that after the initial glow of dating started to diminish back to reality his red flags started to come more clearly into view. Sounds like she's trying to get out of it without a big showdown, which I can't blame her for with his thinly veiled threats.
I wouldn't want to provoke the letter writer either.
Because, DUDE! The subtle and implied threats you include...my goodness. You're obviously spinning things in your favor--we all do that to some extent--but the hints of asshole and resentment and danger remain in some of your phrasing. And really, why do we need to know that you're into guns? That little factoid raised the stakes of implied threats from "inexperienced young man with some warning flags of potential abusiveness" to "okay, this might not end with him stalking her, and her seeking a restraining order...the potential stakes here are life and death."
Get some help dude. And don't talk about being a gun owner in the context of being unhappy and confused because you're possibly terrified ex-girlfriend has carefully couched her break up with you in a way that reduces the danger to her of you taking her life.
And like other commenters, I think BOLD probably has jerk/assface/unlikeable qualities he downplays in the letter - qualities the love of his life likely sussed then decided to cut the tether. Add that at 22 he's not even past the sniffing butt phase with women.
I just think that she saw too many incompatibilities and is no longer interested and is trying (badly) to do a sort of slow fade either because she's immature and doesn't want to deal with the unpleasantness of a direct breakup, or because she's afraid it will go down especially badly, given that he mentions guns and revenge and how easy it is for him to be an asshole. It might be some combination of the two.
BOLD, you two weren't meant to be. I know how hard it is to be the one who gets dumped, to realize that someone you love doesn't love you back. It hurts and it's being made more confusing because the way your ex-girlfriend--and yes, she is an ex--did it, you are kept emotionally hanging on, waiting to see when she'll come back, wondering what is going on.
That wasn't right of her.
But don't try to get revenge; don't threaten her safety or her life; don't start being the asshole you were on the way to being. You had something that was sweet while it lasted. Try to use this opportunity to grow and be more like the kind of person you want to attract the next time. Believe me, at 22, there will be a "next time."
If there's one thing I know, it's this: you can't make someone love you. No matter how much you might want to. But you can make someone hate you. Try to put love, not hate, out into the world. You attract what you are; you reap what you sow.
He could watch both, but he should definitely watch Harold and Maude first.
He's young and immature, so perhaps I should be cutting him some slack and feeling a little empathy - he's obviously hurting emotionally. But on the other hand, young and immature with a gun is a dangerous combination.
Some Old Nobodaddy @15, there's a typo in your second-to-last sentence. You accidentally put the word "possibly" in the middle of the sentence "She sees you as a nutjob, and you are." Oops. I have strange typos sometimes too. Your last sentence sounds like something I'd say. I hope nobody gets killed, but unless this guy changes his way of thinking, he sounds like somebody who will eventually kill someone. If that happens, and I really hope it doesn't, I join you in hoping that he does his killing all by himself with nobody else in the room.
LW, A lot of people think you're dangerous. Maybe you should get that checked out.
The whole letter is an odd mix of almost plaintive niavete and whiff-of-Aspie determinism. You gotta add that you 'assume' she's het after 6 months of dating? Dude, no-fuckin'-body, not Dan, not HAL, not the High Rinpoche or the Big Booty Ho of Borneo, could tell from a distance if she met someone, got sick of you, or what caused the breakup, I mean, the break
. Though as others have said, 6 months is a long time to lie, unless you left out coming into fabulous riches at age 23 or having an ankle-slapping trouser snake or something.
Doesn't sound like she's telling, I'm betting that when 'she made it clear she needed space ENTIRELY isolated from (you,)' it was given in a curt and clear manner. The only thing you can do now is push her away further, and maybe scare her.
22 is prime age for dating around, we all did it, got dumped and dumped others, and often thought the world was ending. It's a bitch at the time, but it's better than arranged marriage.
“I'm good at being an asshole” is the kind of braggadoccio many young people engage in with the thought that it gives them flava; with guys it tends towards 'I'm a badass/very intense/a heavy partier,' girls with 'I'm high maintenance/spoiled/run through guys like a sitdown mower.' You'll hopefully look back on this and cringe, but please, LW, go ahead and stop taking an angry pride in this. It's like bragging about being able to cheat restaurant servers out of money, nobody wants to be known as, or with, an 'asshole' for a reason.
I don't look down on hunting, as long as you track what you hit, and then eat it, but what is your profession that you go armed during the day, as your letter implies? I can think of a couple of jobs where this would be a thing, many more where it wouldn't.
And I'll add to the chorus that the fact that you're having to talk yourself out of retaliation, not because she banged your brother on your wedding day, but because she had the temerity to break up with you, is...insalubrious.
“Nobody dumps BOLD! Yes, lawd, gonna put up all those bikini shots she sent me, and put 'em up on Redtube with her home address, that'll show her!” (Snaps in Z-formation.)
@23 Bi – I think he should shun High Fidelity like an Amway convention; Cusack ends up getting the girl in the end, and it's better for BOLD to get on with his life, as Cusack said in Say Anything, start out depressed, anything good that happens will be a pleasant surprise. He should absolutely not not-date other girls now, that'll just keep him and his blue balls pining for Her. Making him progressively more grumpy and less dateable.
Moviewise, closest fit I can think of is '500 Days of Summer,' where JGL has a nice time with the girl, and she dumps him, and he doesn't get her back. It's a thing that happens.
Girls who have found guys they want to keep and really like don't just say they want a break with no contact because you forgot to do the dishes or don't like Gossip Girl or even if they disagree with something political. Most straight girls aren't going to clear you to do whatever and whoever you like if they are still interested in you and are local.
There is nothing you can do or say to change this (believe me, I've tried).
The reason why you haven't heard from her is because she isn't thinking of you, right now she likely feels slightly guilty, but relieved the conversation is over, and you pestering her while she's focusing on someone else isn't going to work out in your favor. In her mind there's nothing left to talk about, and what she was trying to say was "Please go away and don't make a scene." Continuing to insist on contacting her is just going to irritate her.
In answer to your question, yes, being a somewhat cocky dick is often seen as confident and alpha, particularly for young girls. It CAN be very appealing to some women, sometimes. This is likely not one of those times. She's already rejecting you, you putting on the asshole act is just going to confirm that she's made the right decision.
So what to do now? Do as she says. DON'T talk to her. DON'T text her. DON'T contact her in any way. DO NOT try to talk to her and tell her how great she was for you. You can always say that later, but if you say it now, it makes you look weak and too invested in the relationship. Say nothing. If she wants space, make her feel like Buzz Aldrin. The only thing you can do to influence her behavior now is to MAKE HER MISS YOU. So go dark. Meanwhile, you're 22. Hang out with your friends. Go out and meet some new girls. Have sex with some strangers. Work on your career. Take a trip somewhere. Get a new haircut and buy some new clothes if you have the means. Learn to dress really, really well. Work out a lot, get that six pack. Hang out with your guy friends. Learn to cook four fantastic meals and cook them for four different women. Be a better you.
If you are sad (and you will be and should be for a while) allow yourself a bit of time to feel sad, then stop doing that and get back into the game after a bit. DON'T drink yourself stupid. DON'T sit around and mope all the time. And please, after a week or two, no bitching to your friends about her. We're moving on here.
I'll tell you that there is a very small possibility that I've got this wrong and she does just need some time to herself. If that's the case, then giving her that is a good thing. Let her miss you, and if she does come back you'll be a better, stronger, smarter, wealthier, more attractive person.
And I agree with the sentiment that considering voting for Trump is a valid reason to break up - I'd be worried that Bold has the same inability to see his girlfriend as a whole person.
Throw in the red flags so many other commenters have already pointed out - his talent in the Assholery Division, his belief that he deserves credit for not immediately reacting as a 'cruel piece of trash' (that's the default setting for decent people, not cause for a blue ribbon pinned on you), and his weird 'p.s. I have guns out the wazoo' bit, and I'd say the female population in his area is better off putting him on a break before they even meet him.
If BOLD's g/f had written Dan, giving the self-descriptions he uses about himself, I'd tell her to run like the almighty wind.
I am very anti-gun, but I interpreted BOLD's inclusion of his guns in his letter as indicating they were a point of contention between himself and his ex-girlfriend, likely the reason for her leaving.
Re: High Fidelity
I think this is a good movie for a recently dumped 22-year-old because its message is that in life, you can expect to go through a lot of relationships that you expected would last. It's about moving on.
As for the being cruel question, that wasn't a question about violence. Young men see every single day that the attractive young women they desire are very often attracted to and enamored with strong, cocky, confident, self promoting, loud, kinda dicky guys who are often self centered, slightly arrogant and sometimes aren't the nicest or most thoughtful people. Think Bob Sugar from Jerry Maguire, or Baldwin in Glengarry Glen Ross. Guys see this and wonder 'hey is this the reason why I'm being passed over? Am I being too nice? Don't girls want to be with a nice guy? Do assholes finish first?" As a "nice guy" myself when I was younger, this was a source of constant irritation and bewilderment. It didn't make sense to me.
Truth is, sometimes assholes do finish first. But not because they're assholes. There is plenty of evidence that suggests that young, in demand women aren't really all that interested in being in a relationship with someone who is more invested in it than they are, particularly early on. They tend to want to chase someone. Which makes a "nice guy" boring very quickly. These dicky guys are EXCITING and something of a challenge to these women. They know where all the parties are. They know where all the cool bars are. They're comfortable walking over people to get what they want. They are the life of the party and the leader of the pack. The fact that they're self centered assholes is really secondary. I've seen over and over and over again what women will always leave a nice guy because he's boring for a dick if he's fun and exciting. (Of course, it might not last, but that's different conversation) That's just how people are wired. Guy need to be taught to focus more on being fun and exciting part rather than the asshole part. This is very, very tough to get for a lot of men, as we're just not tuned in to the difference, and that kind of cocky personality is very hard to imitate and get the response that people who do it naturally get.
Of course this doesn't mean everyone everywhere is like this, there's as much variation in what attracts people as their are people. But a lot of people are like this. So don't worry, this guy was just wondering if he needs to be more of an asshole to this girl to get her back. He shouldn't, but he shouldn't be weak and deferential either. His best move right now is to be unavailable, and if they do interact by chance, to not be unfriendly, but rather slightly aloof, busy, and uninterested in her.
I also don't think the guy is dangerous just because his heart is broken. I think the guy is potentially dangerous because his heart is broken, he's admitted to being "very good at being an asshole" and feeling tempted to "be a cruel piece of trash," and he owns probably more than one weapon. 1 + 1 + 1 = run.