Just keep property and large sums of money out of it, and have fun!
Totally a thing, DAD! 52yowith a 20yo here. I was totally not “looking for” this, at all, but the connection is SO real.

I think that the apps kind of “liberate” people to connect across all kinds of typical constructs. I totally agree with Dan’s warnings as well. Separate finances are healthy regardless of age gap.
Dan - in the annals of such relationships, don't forget Harris and Matthew.…
I should be so lucky.
There really ought to be a distinction between Daddy, Granddaddy, and Great-Granddaddy, as there are subtle adjustments one could recommend in the various cases. This could realistically be either a D or a G, which may make it the most interesting type.

The examples should have been kept to SS, though no other complaint this time.
This guy didn't know Dan's camp site rule, yet signs off with a quirky acronym?
Call Me By Your Name didn't seem like a daddy/son or intergenerational relationship to me. They were only seven years apart in the book. (I haven't seen the movie because it's not showing in my area.) Granted, seven years is a lot when you're seventeen and twenty-four, but it didn't seem much different than my best friend sleeping with her grad student TA during our freshman year of college. They were both young, and experiencing the intensity of infatuation and lust for the first time. Call Me seemed more like a story about first love (for both characters.)

I'm curious to see how the movie depicts their relationship now.
@7 spoiler: it definitely doesn't depict Elio and Oliver in any kind of father/son vibe (even though Chalamet and Harmer are ~10 years apart in age).

That reference in Dan's response felt like a weird inclusion for this question, but at least he's finding time to get to the movies between answering letters.
I am obviously in the minority but I feel ill thinking about intergenerational relationships. Not because old people are gross, but because young people in that stage of life are so much bs to deal with. Have sex, sure, but dating? Why would you do that? It seems very desperate. Find your equal.
Does that work for older hetro women???
(asking for a friend)
I nominate “look[ing] at apartments in Bucharest,” as the counterpart to “needing luggage lifted.”
@9: Don't like intergenerational relationships? Don't have one. Easy.
Use condoms and don't get your heart broken if your young lover sleeps with others his own age. Do nothing that could lead to financial dependence for either of you.
DAD, you are not a creep and not a fool. You _may_ still be in the candy store. And for how long? In one sense, you alone are responsible for your feelings; your lover is responsible for his actions, his words, for not constructively or opportunistically misleading you about how much he's into you or how long the relationship is likely to last. I think you're suggesting it's inevitable you'll care more, that you've fallen harder. Well ... Maybe it is, maybe you have a flaming sunset of blood-red dating and multiple dramas to decline into.
Lava @4: I know, right!?

Biju @6: 1. Not all letter writers pick their own signoffs. 2. Acronyms appear in EVERY SL letter, while the campsite rule only in those that involve large age or experience gaps. 3. Just because DAD did not cite the campsite rule in his letter doesn't mean he isn't aware of it.

Nocute @12: Exactly. I don't recall DAD or anyone else asking Honeybunny her opinion.
Mr Bis - I'd guess Mr Savage has only seen one or two of the photos or skimmed an article, and not viewed the film. The picture that accompanied the first article I saw could easily have been intergenerational, 31 playing 24 but still seeming thirty-odd and 21 playing 17 but looking 17 at most and likely younger.

There was also the controversy of Mr Woods' calling the older character a pedophile (although the applicable age of consent was and has remained 14); I don't know why people took that as a shining example to mirror in the case of Judge Moore.

In my day, 17 and 24 was a highly probable combination. The drinking age was 18, and the 17-year-olds with fake IDs had not much to do but go to bars.
I wonder if the pretend parent/child relationship flourishes easier in same sex relationships.
Is there a lesbian equivalent? My only reference in this regard may be porn, which seems to cater to het men much more than to women.
Being a parent in real life may make it hard for me to have a relationship with someone calling me “daddy.” “Mommy” may fly on occasion, partly because I’m not a bio-mom.

Which brings me to Lava @ 4. My guess is that yes, you could possibly find a young man fancying you. If you did, or when you do, how would you feel if he wanted to call you “mom” or something in that spirit?
Oh my god Dan, that last sentence!!! 😂😂😂
@9 If all the younger men who are just attracted to old men found that all the old men were unwilling to have a relationship with them, they'd be sooo lonely. Your assumption seems to be that it's the old guy who's somehow attracting young men away from their age peers.

As another 67 year old who was extremely surprised to find that younger men sometimes find *me* very attractive, I've gotten to know some of them pretty well. And the men who are my most enthusiastic fans don't want to get involved with younger men. They aren't interested in them.

I've had people assure me that they're only in it for the money (no, they all work to support themselves) or that they are broken, damaged people (no, they are living interesting, well adjusted lives) or that these friends with benefits are (fill in a conspiracy theory). But from everything I can see, it's just that they love having sex with me and think I'm fun to hang out with.

So, I try to make sure that when they move on they will be better in some than they were before they met me, and I listen to them and treat them like equals. And I think that may be part of why they like the company of old men (as well as the sex, which I don't understand but I'm glad of). Some of us, anyway, are adults who are low-drama, helpful and fun.
@4 There must be apps or web sites where young men looking for older women hang out, if this sounds good to you.

There is a lot of social stigma around those relationships (see the treatment of President Macron or footballer Wayne Rooney for example) but there have to be a lot of non-gay men looking for older women with nothing but sex and friendship or romance in mind.

The percentage of men attracted to older women is small, but that doesn't matter - the actual number of interested men is pretty big, and most older women don't make themselves available for dating with younger men because it's so taboo. So you might unexpectedly find yourself in a land of plenty.
I suspect humans are hard-wired to associate older men with wisdom, power, authority, etc. The "daddy" sexual dynamic seems to have survived several competing civilizations and thousands of years, probably not for nothing.

@9 I dated a "much" younger woman once (i was 31 she was 22). I generally think that for someone in their 20s, dating a person a whole step ahead in life can be relaxing - so much of the posturing bullshit that people do in their twenties begins to fade in their 30s. I wasn't some paragon of adult stability for this 22 year old, but it was definitely easier for her than to deal with the same-age kids she had been dating. Conversely, I found that I didn't especially want to deal with her young-person drama and broke things off relatively shortly, so it's not for everyone.
@19, I think @9 was questioning why an older person would choose to date someone that much younger, not the other way around. Because someone in their 20s is so much more likely to have drama and lots of learning to do and just in general be in a very different place than the older person. They are suggesting that the older guy find someone more his equal in terms of experience, maturity, etc. because many older people have been there, done that with everything that goes along with being in your early 20s and trying to figure things out, and just don't want to go there again, as Sportlandia relates @21.
CMD.. @17. It'd be mum not mom, unless he was American. And No fucking way. I've been a real mum to enough people.
Twenty two does seem a little young for a middle sixties person, but hey, no chance of anyone getting pregnant.
Hey ECarpenter, thanks for the encouraging words.
@22 If that was what @9 meant, I see the point. Most men in their early 20s are way too drama prone and inexperienced for a serious relationship, and sometimes too susceptible to jealousy to handle being friends with benefits - but I've met a couple of exceptions over the years.

The young men I usually hang out with range from their late twenties to mid forties - "young" is relative, isn't it?!
@24 I have no idea what your age is, but "older" covers a huge range of ages, doesn't it?

I'd also like to point out (in general, not directed at you) that a person's opinion about their own physical charms - negative or positive - doesn't really matter when they are out in the dating sphere.

Years ago I had a friend who was freckled - and who hated his freckles. He was so caught up in this that he'd send an admirer away if the admirer said "I love your freckles" - and many of them did. He also complained that he wasn't sufficiently appreciated, and wondered why he had such a hard time meeting the right kind of man.

The lesson I took away from watching this happen again and again was that I'm not responsible for other people's tastes, no matter how odd they seem to me. If they like something about me that I don't like myself, it's neither kind nor helpful to try to convince them that I'm not really as attractive as they think I am. I just say "thanks!".
@26 - I came across a little comic that illustrates this point. Person A is looking at their reflection. "Damn, I'm ugly." Person B looks over and says "Nah, you're just not your type." Lightbulb moment, there.
Lava @ 23
So what was that enthusiasm you expressed @4 all about?
CMD, what? You saying that much younger men would only go with older women because of their needs for a mummy. I wasn't responding to the daddy part, rather the ease gay and straight men have in attracting younger lovers.
ECarpenter, one year younger than you.
Are we hard wired Sportlandia @21, who really knows. Patriarchy has existed for so long, and to me it makes a lot of sense for an older woman who still has her juices flowing to go with younger men. But no. The brain washing that younger men would never really want to be with an older woman , because hey, look at the beauties their own age, is very very ingrained in women.
I've felt a couple of times that younger men, in their twenties, were flirting with me. Then I just slap myself on the side of the head, and go wtf woman. You are deluded.
Lava @ 29
I think there are plenty young men craving sex with older women (the mum thing was just a side act and I correctly assumed your answer in this regard.)
Your “…the ease gay and straight men have in attracting younger lovers” doesn’t necessarily work so easily for ordinary straight dudes (non celebrities/sports stars/wealthies).
My assumption is that if it wasn’t for some social stigmas then the phenomenon of ordinary older women FWBing with younger men would be up there with gay men.

Ms Lava - You forget that you were highly recommended by Mr Franklin.

I omit a cosmic vibration guess, as I have no desire to make any further contribution towards turning an SS thread OS, although i can say that I was reminded of Mr Fierstein's caveat when he finally yielded to Mr Broderick in Torch Song Trilogy.
I'm bi with an attraction to older men and women, for whatever reason I do not know. But my most successful relationships have been with those older than myself. Probably because the attraction is there.
I had an 8 year relationship with a man 20 years older, and 4 years, so far, with a woman 15 years older. My ex bf and I are still very close and great friends.
I think once you hit your 30's you can find people on the same level of development at any age range. If there's attraction, why hesitate? - yes there are people out there who will view it negatively, but as Dan says, their reaction to one thing about you tells you everything about them!
It's my life, I'll live it how I want - Damn it!

One thing on the subject I would like Dan to take note of - looking up "mum" or "dad" porn is, for me anyway, not about incestuous relationships, but the only categories on porn sites that have "normal looking" older people that I find attractive. We're not all in to perfectly preened muscle bears or skinny plastic milfs, which is all the "industry" seems to cater for.
You're awesome, @34!

Attitudes like @9 are so puzzling, and is not that far off from right-wing "Christians" who judge gay marriage as immoral - and then can't let it go and denounce others' relationships. @9, if you "feel ill about intergenerational relationships", then don't fucking have one! I'm not sure why your "ill feeling" has to lead to a full-on assumption that others are "desperate", and THEN a full-on denigration that the relationships are automatically unequal.
@12,15 I am cool with it in theory I was mostly just curious if anyone else felt squicked out. The way it's executed irl that I've personally witnessed were unhealthy. @21 that's where I feel uncomfortable is why an older person would want to date a younger person beyond fwb. I totally get the attraction of the younger for the older, what I don't get is the attraction of the older for the younger (beyond just a fling). Dealing with someone so behind in life seems strange to me. I guess if the mentor role turns you on, but most of what I've seen is frustration with their younger partner for being young and the younger partner not really growing up because their being patented by their partner.
Parented* by their partner
M? Bunny - I refer you to Mr Wilde's response when he was cross-examined on Bosie's poem and the "love that dare not speak its name". Although it was not the most truthful response in one respect, it had a particular resonance.
Not all younger folks are “so much behind in life,” and there are plenty traits, energies, and common interests that can make a relationship fly beyond the age difference.
It may not work for everyone, just like everything else.

I think you generate not-so-favorable reactions because of the somewhat judgmental tone in both your spots.
True, I am a judgy bitch, so I don't mind any haters. I think it can work easier when the younger partner is 25+. It's the 18-24 demographic specifically where it is so imbalanced. I've yet to see a "relationship" where the older partner appears anything other than desperate. On a recent lovecast Dan got a call from a guy who's 40y.o. bf fell in love with a 22yo. And Dan felt similarly that his bf was having some sort of crisis with his aging. This letter is different than that call but red flags (and that ill feeling) are raised for me when the gap is big and someone is college aged.
CMD didn't ask me, and I'm in my 40s not 70s, but I'll say that young guys (college age and younger) do nothing for me. Make me think of children I've raised and/or helped raised, and there's no way around it. Somehow though when they enter their later 20s they magically cross into a "you're a man now" realm that doesn't really make sense since I very well could have a 26-28 year old son or whatevs. And if I could be so lucky as to be an old rich gay man in my 70s I would keep them around. If the price I pay for that is that they want to call me "mommy" well I suppose I'd cook pancakes for them in the morning.

What I wonder about the gendered thing is the awareness of being ripped off? THough there are plenty foolish women out there as well, most older women I know (and I mean older than me since I'm not yet old) wouldn't sign on to shared property with a much younger man. If you eliminate that risk, however, it is nice to be able to take a young person out and show them a good time. I've never mixed that with sexual satisfaction, but I can see how it could be fun if one keeps one's head.
@1 nocutename Congrats on being first! I agree about DAD---have fun and keep property and money out of it.
@4 LavaGirl and @10 Cami: You both beat me to it.
For those interested: the quote referred to by Mr. venn @38 seems to be this:

"The Love that dare not speak its name" in this century is such a great affection of an elder for a younger man as there was between David and Jonathan, such as Plato made the very basis of his philosophy, and such as you find in the sonnets of Michelangelo and Shakespeare. It is that deep, spiritual affection that is as pure as it is perfect. It dictates and pervades great works of art like those of Shakespeare and Michelangelo, and those two letters of mine, such as they are. It is in this century misunderstood, so much misunderstood that it may be described as the "Love that dare not speak its name," and on account of it I am placed where I am now. It is beautiful, it is fine, it is the noblest form of affection. There is nothing unnatural about it. It is intellectual, and it repeatedly exists between an elder and a younger man, when the elder man has intellect, and the younger man has all the joy, hope and glamour of life before him. That it should be so the world does not understand. The world mocks at it and sometimes puts one in the pillory for it. (Loud applause, mingled with some hisses.)

EL@ 41- rest assured, your input is welcome. As for the age difference, it just so happened that the man in question is 22. My idea is a much broader age range while being aware that a 10 year difference in a 55-45 relationship is very likely to be different in a 35-25 one, possibly also 48-32.

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