Do they still hang horse theives in Michigan? Seems like they might.

"Tonight, Alabama essentially committed the same crime [1st Degree Murder*]. They hired people to torture Smith to death using an untested execution method."

what the Fuck
they ran outta
fucking Fentanyl?

see:
your
Dealer
Alabama.

*it's
Totally
"Different"
when the State does it:

it's an
Eye for
an Eye!*

*plus:
REVENGE!

As expected, the Court used the actual definition of genocide from international law (https://www.un.org/en/genocideprevention/documents/atrocity-crimes/Doc.1_Convention%20on%20the%20Prevention%20and%20Punishment%20of%20the%20Crime%20of%20Genocide.pdf), not whatever extra-special, double-secret, no-backsies definition the Stranger and the I-5 Freeway Ambulance Blockers use. Under the actual definition, no genocide has yet occurred in Gaza. (Such is the hazard of trying to redefine the meanings of words to suit political agendas, a topic upon which George Orwell had much to say, all of it always relevant and highly critical.)

This puts the Stranger, the protesters it lovingly approves, and supportive commenters in a tough spot. Hamas just declined Israel’s offer of a cease-fire, so continuing to demand a cease-fire of Israel makes no sense. (Demanding a ceasefire from Hamas remains doubleplus unpossible, because SHUT UP THAT’S WHY.)

Meanwhile, we’re seeing allegations South African banks have been conduits for funding Hamas. Both the US and EU have declared Hamas a terrorist organization, but South Africa has not. So we could see a diplomatic clash if South Africa continues to see nothing wrong with sending money to the 10/7 killers and rapists. (Will the protesters who blocked BNY Mellon do the same for South African banks, consulates, and embassies?)

A ceasefire is only a ceasefire if BOTH sides agree to stop shooting.

Our Tax Dollars
hard as fuck
at Work

keeping
BiBi Nutnyahoo
outta Prison whilst
his far Far FAR 'right'
government levels Gaza
in order to Steal their Land.

an Ethnic Cleansing
in Real Time?

not on
MY Dime.

END the
MADNESS:
Stop the Terrorism.

Yeah, not a fan of capital punishment though if some perv and/or psycho ever did anything harmful to my family, I'd want to dip them into a Krispy Kreme fryer, and it's a drag that people like Charles Manson gets (or got) three squares a day and better healthcare than many on our dime for many years. it's part of being civilized, I suppose. Using N to kill someone sounds pretty barbaric as does capital punishment itself. I think someone is SLOG mentioned a few weeks ago - if you are going to kill someone, why not use fentanyl? Lord knows it's cheap and available. And don't you just sorta nod off? Alabama would probably be concerned about someone maybe getting high before biting the big one. Alabama. Never a reason ever to go there except maybe Space Camp.

I always thought it was super-brave that Aretha and her then manager/boyfriend drove down to Muscle Sholas by themselves in the 60s. She must have been fearless.

Sorry...isn't anything cute about surfing dogs. The ones I've seen here always look like they'd rather be doing something else. Now, if you want to take your board out into the briny shallows and risk being déjeuner for some big fish, that is completly within your rights, but forcing your dog to do it (and you have to train them because no dog knows how to surf naturally) is another matter. Poor little guy wouldn't have a chance. He/She can't make these decisions on his/her own. They count on you to make them and keep them from harm. So, it's not only not cute, it's kind of cruel and mindless, and I always hate it when I see it.

Happy weekend, everyone.

@ 3 - Ah, Kris. Fentanyl. Sorry for steppin' on your toes.

Progressives put up barriers to a quick and humane execution and then argue that the mess they created means the system doesn't work (see also "we should just imprison them because execution is too expensive"). The late Mr. Smith beat a woman to death with a fireplace poker.

@8
toes not Sore
say no More!
happy wkend
too Bauhaus I.

oh & Efruz
the Surfdog
looks a Lot less
than Happy. hard Pass.

"The late Mr. Smith beat a woman
to death with a fireplace poker."
--@nekrasova

Fucking TRAGIC.

and yet
this easily rhymes
with "Republicans" Defunding
Medicare for ALL and the End of
Women having Bodily Autonomy:
the Risks of Childbirth? "they're just

Women."

choose
your Poisons
and Poisoners
well el Friendos.

@14 "That is sad, but what if it was about something completely different and unrelated that I care about?"

calling it Murder
or Genocide?

"What
higher moral
authority is there other
than what society puts in law?"
--@Kneel

you Obviously
haven't Heard of
"Citizens United." or
else you support it. either
way it allows Billionaires to

fucking
PURCHASE
"Our" Lawmakers.

your
Credibility
certainly suffers sir.

@17

your
Fealty
to Laws
& Lawmakers

your
ceding
Morality
to the Whims
of the Legislative

require
an answer
from You cap'n.

@17: Saying it was ok per law doesn’t make it a good idea. Fallible humans should not mete out irrevocable punishments.

@16, @18: You’re free to provide your definition of “Genocide” any time you want. We can then compare it to the long-established definition the Court just used, and you can make your argument for why your definition is better. Unless you do that, no one needs listen to anything else you say on the topic, because it’s literally impossible to have a meaningful dialog with someone who has his own secret definition of the words we all use.

@4 That's not actually accurate, but you have to read the decision instead of the news coverage thereof. You are a noted international lawyer and former transit union shop steward, so you no doubt already know this.

https://www.icj-cij.org/sites/default/files/case-related/192/192-20240126-ord-01-00-en.pdf

Paragraph 30 is the important bit in regards to your claim that the ICJ found that genocide has not occurred:

"30. At the present stage of the proceedings, the Court is not required to ascertain whether any
violations of Israel’s obligations under the Genocide Convention have occurred. Such a finding could
be made by the Court only at the stage of the examination of the merits of the present case. As already
noted (see paragraph 20 above), at the stage of making an order on a request for the indication of
provisional measures, the Court’s task is to establish whether the acts and omissions complained of
by the applicant appear to be capable of falling within the provisions of the Genocide Convention
(cf. Allegations of Genocide under the Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime
of Genocide (Ukraine v. Russian Federation), Provisional Measures, Order of 16 March 2022, I.C.J.
Reports 2022 (I), p. 222, para. 43). In the Court’s view, at least some of the acts and omissions
alleged by South Africa to have been committed by Israel in Gaza appear to be capable of falling
within the provisions of the Convention."

In slightly more accessible words, this hearing and decision was never going to establish whether Israel's actions constituted genocide in this stage of the proceedings. Their task at the moment is to determine whether the actions so far can plausibly be considered genocide and whether temporary measures are needed to prevent genocide in the future. The fact that Israel was ordered to take a bunch of steps to ensure that there's no future genocide should also be a clue to you.

Paragraph 44 lays out the definition. Paragraphs 45-49 confirm that the Palestinians are a distinct people under the meaning of the Genocide Convention, and that they have suffered many of the required elements of the Genocide Convention (killings, displacements, etc.). Paragraphs 52-53 establish intent.

Paragraph 54 states that while the ICJ is not making a final determination about whether genocide has occurred, it is saying that Israel's conduct so far can plausibly be described as genocide.

Further, paragraphs 65-74 establish that the situation for Gazans is sufficiently serious that the ICJ needs to act now before making the final adjudication.

So then it tells Israel to knock it off in slightly more diplomatic language. And report back in a month to show their work in improving the situation. Worth noting is that Israel lost on every argument in this ruling.

man the fucking heel turn from "no one wants to work anymore" to "too many people are working" is giving me whiplash

@2 polite protestor is an oxymoron

maybe you're thinking of a bake sale

@9, the crime is irrelevant. the death penalty is needlessly cruel, prone to error, and absolutely pointless other than for an adrenaline rush to the vengeance-loving lizard brain.

the cousin-fucking hicks in Alabama especially shouldn't be considered competent enough to undertake such a grave and permanent task

Bauhaus I @7, always enjoy reading your perspective. I had the same reaction you did to the surfing dog. It's sad that some owners treat their pets as mere toys for their amusement without any regard for the animals' well-being.

And maybe I'm reading too much into that photo, but that dog looks distressed to me.

@27 The tertiary debates about methods are fake, given that opponents of the death penalty have created an artificial shortage of lethal injections drugs. The penalty itself is obviously necessary, given that in our system no judgement is final and there always exist people who will try many times, sometimes successfully, to secure the premature release of the worst offenders before their sentence is up.

You may feel the "crime is irrelevant", and sprinkle in a little about how you believe your social class is superior to the "hicks" of another region, but to the loved ones of a woman who was beaten to death for money, the crime likely isn't "irrelevant".

@21 That was a rather fast turn from “Israel won at the ICJ” to “The ICJ decision was meaningless.” Almost like you didn’t read the ruling before declaring victory. And it’s not how many divisions the OCJ has that matters. It’s how the decision impacts the flow of weapons and cash from the US.

@28 At least the UN fired the employees involved in war crimes. The IDF sure isn’t.

@32 you sure can talk some bullshit

as long as people are still being released after decades once its been determined they actually didn't commit crime, any argument for the death penalty should be null and void.

@34 What actually occurs is orgs like the Innocence Project and other activists getting appeals and tays on basically universally extremely dubious grounds for rapists and murderers like Rodney Reed. That's why those releases happen.

It's also funny to accuse me of bullshit after you shift goalposts from "the crime doesn't matter" to "they probably didn't do the crime".

Serfdawg
Looked like
he'd eaten Too
many magic Brownies
& was Praying for the gd Ride To End.

Bad
Surfer
Dad. BAD.

@20: That was a lot of words to re-state, in oddly hostile and murky language, what I concisely and clearly wrote @4.

First, I noted @4 the Court would use the definition of “genocide” given in Genocide Convention, not whatever definition local protesters, the Stranger, and supportive commenters have been using. Your quote shows I was indeed correct. (Thank you.)

Second, contrary to what you wrote @20, I did not write, “the ICJ found that genocide has not occurred.” I did not write that, because no court will ever find that an event did not occur. A court finds whether or not sufficient evidence has been presented to show that an event did occur. What I actually wrote was, “…no genocide has yet occurred in Gaza.” The court indeed has not yet found that genocide has occurred. It may someday do so (the military action is ongoing), but as of now, the claim of genocide is not supported. (The highly and multiply conditional sentence, “In the Court’s view, at least some of the acts and omissions
alleged by South Africa to have been committed by Israel in Gaza appear to be capable of falling
within the provisions of the Convention”, should also be a clue to you.)

(Badly misquoting something you could have very easily copy-pasted doesn’t exactly testify to your diligence in parsing quotes, now does it?)

“Worth noting is that Israel lost on every argument in this ruling.”

Most preliminary injunctions to dismiss are denied, so no, that really wasn’t worth noting.

Finally, I understand your misidentifications of me (“a noted international lawyer and former transit union shop steward,”) were just your failed attempt to make a funny, but your feeding of kristo’s paranoid conspiracy theorizing about Ahab and me really does kristo no favors. As you can read @21, he can jump a long, long, long way to his desired conclusion from little to no evidence at all, and the rest of the world really shouldn’t encourage his tendency.

@37 that’s not a goal post move, it’s an entirely separate playing field

Guilty People shouldn’t be killed by the state regardless of what crime they committed

Vs

The fact innocent people get sentenced regularly is all the reason needed to not have a death penalty

you don't gotta Believe me
but here's a little Different
take from ol' wormmy's:

from Democracy Now:

This is an amazing ruling,
because it highlights everything
that the South African team and, of
course, Palestinians have been saying the
entire time, which is that Israel is plausibly carrying out genocide.

And so, the fact that the court has indicated to Israel
that they have to take measures to prevent genocide,
to make sure that soldiers are doing the same, to
prosecute those individuals who are inciting,
including high government officials, and
ensure that there is effective human-
itarian aid, is precisely what was
sought by Palestinians.

It’s now up to the world to make sure
that this court ruling is actually enacted.

I think it’s very difficult at this stage
for the court to be pushing for a ceasefire.

But in the fact that they said, first and foremost,
that Israel has to take all measures to
prevent acts of genocide is enough
for the world to then be
pushing for a ceasefire.

It’s really up to the international system as we know it
to make sure that genocide is not carried out.

And so it’s imperative that this be followed up by countries
around the world making sure that Israel doesn’t
get to do whatever it wants to do with
Palestinians in Gaza and continue
this genocide.

--Diana Butu, Palestinian human rights attorney, former adviser to the negotiating team of the Palestine Liberation Organization. In 2004, Diana Buttu was part of the legal team that won the case before the International Court of Justice which ruled Israel’s separation wall in the West Bank is illegal under international law.

tonnes More
AIPAC-FREE:
https://www.democracynow.org/2024/1/26/icj_provisional_ruling_israel_genocide_gaza

it’s past time to Give Up
Bibi, President Joe.
Join the JUST
Planet

and
Win in
2024 in
a fucking
LANDSLIDE.

your call.

@40 Think about it like this: if, in fact, innocent people were sentenced to death "regularly" (there is, of course, no evidence of this and plently to suggest the opposite is true), it would only mean more stringent standards should be applied in the justice system, not that there was an the death penalty itself. But you already don't believe the state should execute the guilty, a sort of abstract moral precept that you wouldn't apply to, say, an active shooter, since you can see the immediate danger in them but have failed to distinguish the danger in a murderer who gets released. You are just against the death penalty and are throwing common bad arguments at the wall to see what sticks, and you would be more persuasive if you could hold to a consistent set of ethics.

@39 My apologies. I did think that @4 was written by Ahab. In my defense, the two of you sound so alike it’s an easy mistake to make. If you want to get all butthurt about a missing “yet”, you do you.

You continue to make the same mistake that you did in @4 though. The question that you, me, Ahab, and the rest of us have been arguing over the last few months isn’t what the definition of genocide is. It’s whether what is happening in Gaza is a genocide. Yes, the ICJ defines genocide the same way you do. And then they go ahead and say that Israel has to change its conduct of the war on genocide grounds. So I don’t think that them agreeing with you is the flex you think it is.

And to top it all off, the ICJ did not say that there had not yet been a genocide in Gaza. They have not yet made that decision. They said that there is plausible evidence that a genocide is occurring. So you’re wrong on your butthurt too. And doubling down on the wrong.

@41 Whether people have faced consequences for war crimes is absolutely important. If you read the start of the ICJ ruling today, you’ll see that one of the requirements for the ICJ getting involved in a genocide case is that the nations involved are not punishing the people who committed the genocide. There’s a similar rule for war crimes. If Israel prosecutes soldiers who commit war crimes, then they can’t get hauled off to The Hague. If there are no consequences within the nation, then international tribunals have jurisdiction.

And no, firing employees isn’t the same as facing criminal punishment. As previously noted, it’s a damn sight more than Israel has done. The soldiers who killed the escaped hostages didn’t even get a slap on the wrist. Keep in mind that they had a white flag and that killing civilians who are surrendering is a war crime.

from the New York Times
Middle Eastern Bureau Chief
for seven years, Chris Hedges:

It May be Genocide, But it Won’t Be Stopped

The ruling by the International Court of Justice
was a legal victory for South Africa and the
Palestinians, but it will not halt the slaughter.

The International Court of Justice (ICJ) refused to implement the most crucial demand made by South African jurists: “the State of Israel shall immediately suspend its military operations in and against Gaza.”

But at the same time, it delivered a devastating blow to the foundational myth of Israel. Israel, which paints itself as eternally persecuted, has been credibly accused of committing genocide against Palestinians in Gaza.

Palestinians are the victims, not the perpetrators, of the “crime of crimes.” A people, once in need of protection from genocide, are now potentially committing it.

The court’s ruling questions the very raison d'être of the “Jewish State” and challenges the impunity Israel has enjoyed since its founding 75 years ago.

The ICJ ordered Israel to take six provisional measures to prevent acts of genocide, measures that will be very difficult if not impossible to fulfill if Israel continues its saturation bombing of Gaza and wholesale targeting of vital infrastructure.

The court called on Israel “to prevent and punish the direct and public incitement to commit genocide.” It demanded Israel “take immediate and effective measures to enable the provision of urgently needed basic services and humanitarian assistance.”

It ordered Israel to protect Palestinian civilians.

It called on Israel to protect the some 50,000 women giving birth in Gaza. It ordered Israel to take “effective measures to prevent the destruction and ensure the preservation of evidence related to allegations of acts within the scope of Article II and Article III of the Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide against members of the Palestinian group in the Gaza Strip.”

The court ordered Israel to “take all measures within its power” to prevent the crimes which amount to genocide such as “killing, causing serious bodily and mental harm, inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part, and imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group.”

Israel was ordered to report back in one month to explain what it had done to implement the provisional measures.

Gaza was pounded with bombs, missiles and
artillery shells as the ruling was read in
The Hague — at least 183 Palestinians
have been killed in the last 24 hours.

Since Oct. 7,
more than 26,000
Palestinians have been killed.

Almost 65,000 have been wounded,
according to the Palestinian Ministry of Health.
Thousands more are missing. The carnage continues.

This is the cold reality.

Translated into the vernacular,
the court is saying Israel must feed and
provide medical care for the victims, cease
public statements advocating genocide, preserve
evidence of genocide and stop killing Palestinian civilians.

--by Chris Hedges; Jan. 26, 2024

tonnes more and brilliantly
https://chrishedges.substack.com/p/it-may-be-genocide-but-it-wont-be?r=k7ee3

finally
Palestine
Wins one. hoo-ray.

@46
from the former
ME Bureau Chief Chris Hedges

@48
I can't Wait
till el trumpfster
dons pancake makeup
and comes Out as The Joker.

if BiBi can only hang in there
till el trumpfster can Steal
the Next one they can
do a World Tour of
Fascism executing
gays libs & dems
to their "hearts'"
content. I can
Not Wait.*

$100 million?
he got off
Easy.

'spose he'll
continue?

*yeah
I can.

Israel never ratified the Rome Statute and doesn't recognize the ICJ's jurisdiction (neither does the U.S.), the ICJ's ruling is not legally binding.

@50 The ICJ has ruled on the Genocide Convention, which Israel ratified. Article IX of the Genocide Convention gives the ICJ jurisdiction over disputed between states under the Convention. Also, the ICJ is different from the ICC.

nyt:
A Ruling for the Starving Children of Gaza

I’ve covered many conflicts — in Congo, Sudan, the Central African Republic and elsewhere — in which most of the deaths do come not from bullets but from hunger and disease that follow displacement.

Children are most vulnerable to famine,
and even those who survive often suffer
lifelong cognitive deficits. It would be
unconscionable for the world to
permit a famine in Gaza when
it is so easy to remedy.

But that cannot justify
the mass starvation of children
in Gaza. Netanyahu seems to think
that his legacy will be crushing Hamas;
instead, it may be crimes against humanity.

The United States and the Biden administration
bear responsibility as well. It is our bombs
that have destroyed neighborhoods
and displaced families.

The court ruling
should be a wake-up call
for Washington: Every ounce of
pressure must be brought on Netan-
yahu to permit more aid and avert starvation.

That’s now a matter of international law,
but more simply, it’s a matter
of basic humanity.

--by Nicholas Kristof; Jan. 26, 2024

more:
https://www.nytimes.com/live/2024/01/24/opinion/thepoint#gaza-famine-un

do the
Moral thingy
Mister President

you Are afterall
That kinda
Guy.

@52:

"So
you
aren't
interested
in what will
save the most Gazans"

bugger Off
wormmy,
Jr.

@49

The ex-
president
was found
liable for sex-
ually abusing E.
Jean Carroll, but
called her a liar. The award
was “a huge* defeat for every bully
who has tried to keep a woman down,” she said.
--@nyt

this’s what’s gonna
Fire Up the Electorate
get some Weed on the Ballot
some Abortion de-Crims free ponys

shenanigans
is Comin’.

and show nothing but
tfg djt behind Prison bars.
but don’t dress him in Orange

he’ll be
Invisible

*Yuge:
$85m. good.
when he does it
Again Double that.
each and Every time

& then Donate it to
the 65,000 wtf? Women
impregnated by Rapists* in
states where Abortion is ILLEGAL.

ps – Daddy
gets Custody
& Never pays
Support. Dontchya
just Love ‘conservatism’?!

*65 FUCKING THOUSAND
Since the end of Dobbs?

we’ve
an Epidemic

@48, 49, 56:

“For the last week and a half,
we’ve had the rare experience of
watching a Judge and a jury impose account-
ability on Donald Trump for his words and deeds.

It was reassuring. E. Jean Carroll
will forever be a national
hero, a treasure.

where Republican leaders have groveled
at Trump’s feet, she has shown
incredible bravery, and we
are all better off for it.”

from:
Civil Discourse with Joyce Vance

https://joycevance.substack.com/p/833-million?publication_id=607357&post_id=141079304&isFreemail=true&r=k7ee3

a National Hero.
ok. Why not?

@7 Bauhaus I, @30 cressona, and @10 & @38 kristofarian: +4 Agreed. Efruz, the Peruvian surfer dog clearly looks like his ability to ride the waves is forced. Kids and pets are not toys!

@57 kristofarian: Amen.

Boeing. Just Say No
I'll never be able to unsee that recent SNL spoof on Alaska Airlines Flight 1282 from Portland International Airport on January 5th, 2024. Doors that come loose and fly off in midflight is inexcusable.

Auntie dear, don't you remember the McDonnell-Douglas DC-10? Very similar situation, except in one of those cases the plane crashed, killing everyone on board. In another, the back part of the passenger cabin collapsed, injuring two of the flight attendants who valiantly escaped the wreckage and assisted passengers in evacuation. Miraculously, no one was killed.

As for the protestors at The Westin: I wonder if they were actually invitees or if they crashed the party? When I worked there, there was a luncheon for some political group (I don't think it would be a Republican group because The Westin is a union hotel, and Republicans are horrible people) where some protesters actually got ahold of some waiter's uniforms. When the guest speaker started speaking, they started shouting them down. It was quite dramatic.

An interesting side note about the guy Alabama tortured to death: He killed the wife of a minister who paid him to do it (and then killed himself when it all came out)—a fine example of Christian love, southern style.

I think the death penalty is barbaric. Full stop. Just like the bible. I'd much rather have the killer live out a long, boring life with no possibility of parole. Despite what Our Dear Bauhus I says, prison is not some cushy experience with three square meals a day and free healthcare. And I say that as someone who had a dear friend who was executed in the middle of a restaurant full of people. Since it happened in Iowa, there was no death penalty. Still, the kid who pulled the trigger (he was seventeen, and it was supposedly some gang initiation thing) will hopefully live a long, boring life full of regret and misgivings, with just a few minutes of outdoor activity each day.

And there's always the case where someone got railroaded. If we kill them and they are innocent of the crime they are convicted of, we can't bring them back.

@44: The court did not grant South Africa's biggest request: an Israeli cease-fire in Gaza. Had the court believed a genocide was underway in Gaza, it would have issued a cease-fire order, as it did in the case of Russia in 2022. (https://www.icj-cij.org/public/files/case-related/182/182-20220316-PRE-01-00-EN.pdf) Therefore, we can infer the court does not believe a genocide has yet taken place in Gaza.

"And then they go ahead and say that Israel has to change its conduct of the war on genocide grounds."

The court's ruling does not say that. It reminds Israel of existing obligations to take actions to ensure genocide will not occur, to help the civilian population in Gaza, and to report to the court on these efforts. That last is the only "change" ordered. This is pretty much the minimum the court had to say after it did not dismiss the case. (https://static01.nyt.com/newsgraphics/documenttools/e9d8337ab5ae1d92/72977573-full.pdf, Para. 78-82.)

"The question that you, me, Ahab, and the rest of us have been arguing over the last few months isn’t what the definition of genocide is."

That has been exactly the point over which we have argued. I have cited the actual definition of genocide, and the explanatory material at the United Nations' web site. The Stranger, supportive commenters, and the ambulance blockers on I-5 have repeatedly used the word without attempting to define it, their mis-use of it occasionally revealing they do not understand the actual definition. (Their objection to my applying it to Hamas' 10/7 attacks is a "tell" here.)

"It’s whether what is happening in Gaza is a genocide. Yes, the ICJ defines genocide the same way you do."

First, I absolutely love your implied idea, that the definition of something can be entirely separate from the determination on whether or not it did occur. Second, neither the ICJ nor I have "defined" genocide; we have merely used the actual definition. Your very addressing of this point itself contradicts your claim everyone here had no disagreement on the definition. (And again, the pushback to describing 10/7 as "genocide" suggests mere ignorance of the definition does not suffice as an explanation.)

Finally, while I have neither the time nor inclination to address all of your errors @20, I'll note the court's ruling did not "...confirm that the Palestinians are a distinct people under the meaning of the Genocide Convention," but merely that, "The Palestinians appear to constitute a distinct national, ethnical, racial or religious
group and hence a protected group within the meaning of Article II of the Genocide Convention." The court said it hadn't decided that point. Unless it does so in the affirmative, the Genocide Convention cannot apply. (Note also that your phrase, "a distinct people," does not even appear in the Genocide Convention at all, so there is no possible way your claim could have been correct. Again, confusion on the very meaning of "genocide" has been a huge issue at the Stranger.)

when Most of the World
calls it Genocide & the supporters
of the Genocide wanna argue definitions

all those Words and Excuses
ring awfully fucking Hollow

BiBi's time is numbered
as is Palestinians. will the
Planet stop his Madness
before Gaza's an utterly
bombed-out Hellscape?

We're running
outta Time.

let's stop handing
BiBi the WMDs
he needs to
commit a
Genocide

at Least
OUR Hands'll be
(somewhat) blood-free.

is gee dubya (bush)
Still painting hisself
in the Shower trying
desperately & futilely
to wash the Blood of
a Million Dead Iraqis from
His perpetually-Blood-Stained
hands? have WE not yet Learned the Lessons?

C'MON Bazooka Joe!

get With the Program:
END the fucking
Pogrom.

@66: "...when Most of the World
calls it Genocide"

[citation needed]

(Note also this thread is about the ICJ's ruling on Israel and genocide, which uses the definition of genocide found in the Genocide Convention, and therefore what "Most of the World" calls genocide matters not at all.)

@ 63 - Right you are, Ms. Vel-DuRay. I didn't mean to imply that prison is like an all-inclusive holiday retreat. I did mean to say that in order to be civilized about it all, it's frustratingly necessary for taxpayers to have to keep some evil, undeserving people at bay, locked down, and in reasonable living conditions for sometimes many years.Still better than the gas chamber though, morally speaking. I regret the error.

Plane talk: I grew up in Nashville, and for many years - even after the introduction of the 747 - Nashville's airport couldn't accommodate a jumbo jet. It was frustrating because the only way to get on one was to fly from metropolis to metropolis. Well, as a teenager that situation almost never occurred, but when I left (and I took the first "train" out after HS graduation) for California, I was able to finally enjoy the jumbo jet experience - back before they ripped out all the upstairs lounges and piano bars to cram in more seating. Never flew on a DC-10. I think I shied away from them after the fiasco of engines falling off DC-9s. My first experience on a jumbo jet was on Delta from LAX to ATL on an L-1011. Remember those? Sweetest, smoothest plane ride I've ever had. Turbulence? What turburlance? I'm not a pilot (damn it!), but I'm told that commercial pilots LOVED flying the L-1011. It was a wonderful plane that just didn't catch on in the marketplace.

“Note also this thread is about the ICJ's ruling on Israel and genocide… “

So now YOU decide what This Thread is about?

who tf made You
tS’s hall monitor
a role you may
Believe you’re
well-qualified
for but your
Utter Lack
of empathy
Disqualifies.

all those Words and Excuses
ring awfully fucking Hollow:

“… and
therefore what
"Most of the World"
calls genocide matters not at all.”

Exactly.
thank you
for clarifying,
Wormtongue.

Shorter @52: "We had to destroy Gaza to save it." You yourself said it was too dangerous for Israel to go into the tunnel network under Gaza. That makes it impossible to destroy Hamas without leveling Gaza to the ground and removing all of the Gazans. AKA forced displacement, a form of genocide.

@55 Weird how you have gone from standing on the letter of international agreements in every post to dismissing them as irrelevant the instant a court disagrees with you. It's almost like you're molding your support based on who agrees with you. So maybe those international agreements weren't that important to you after all.

@64 And somehow this grand victory for Israel that you see here is described as a stinging defeat in nearly all of the press. Let's see what happens in a month when Israel has to account for what it's done in the meantime. I don't think you'll be very happy then, either.

let's stop handing
BiBi the WMDs
he needs to
commit a
Genocide.

We actually know very little about the UNRWA employees involved in the 10/7 attacks. All we know if that Israel accused 12 employees of involvement, and UNRWA fired them on the spot. We don't know:

What involvement did they have? Did they cross the border with Israel? Were they involved in planning the attacks? Or were they just people who were told to bring Box A to Point B? The former two are far, far worse than the latter.
Did the staff know that an attack was planned or that the attack would cross the border?
Was any UNRWA equipment used for the attack?
Was the staff's involvement in the attack on UNRWA time or on off hours?

A useful parallel here is the issue of police officers involved in the 1/6 insurrection. Most of those officers weren't fired, at least until felony convictions came down. If a police department can't regulate what cops do on vacation days, why would you expect UNRWA to do that? Many of the same people out for UNRWA's blood now equivocated about cops who just attended the rally before the assault on the Capitol. Many of the same people who said that we had to wait for all of the facts to come out are out for UNRWA's blood now. Weird that people who stand so much on principle in one case are willing to completely discard it in another.

@74:

‘Different rules’:
special policies keep
US supplying weapons
to Israel despite alleged abuses

Top US officials quietly reviewed more than a dozen incidents of alleged gross violations of human rights by Israeli security forces since 2020, but have gone to great lengths to preserve continued access to US weapons for the units responsible for the alleged violations, contributing – former US officials say – to the sense of impunity with which Israel has approached its war in Gaza.

An estimated 24,000 [a little Dated; it’s rapidly approaching 30,000] Palestinians, mostly women and children, have been killed by Israeli forces since Hamas’s 7 October attack on Israel, a death toll that has spurred condemnation of the Israeli prime minister, Benjamin Netanyahu, and the US president, Joe Biden, who has been criticized for failing to rein in Israel’s “indiscriminate” bombing of Gaza.

‘A broad impunity’

Some experts see a connection between the US’s hands-off approach to Israel on human rights violations and Israel’s conduct in the war in Gaza.

Israel receives $3.8bn in military assistance annually and the Biden administration twice bypassed Congress last month to deliver an additional $250m in weapons.

Progressive Democrats led by Bernie Sanders, the independent Vermont senator, have called on aid to Israel being conditioned on the US investigating potential human rights violations by Israel in its war in Gaza.

more, tellingly:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/jan/18/us-supply-weapons-israel-alleged-abuses-human-rights

of
Course
WE Are Giving
Israel WMDs dewey

we get it:
it’s fucking
Hard to Justify:

so
let’s
just.
stop.

@75

Gaza burns
BiBi fiddles
meanwhile
Plato puz-
zles it all
Out.

@80 -- "Israel receives $3.8bn in military assistance annually and the Biden administration twice bypassed Congress last month to deliver an additional $250m in weapons."
--from @76.

'No WMDs!'
dewey?

so
they're
Weapons of
Minimal Destruction?

save your
'Gotchyas!'
for the nearly
THIRTY THOUSAND
DEAD and 90,000 severely
injured Gazans, dewey. I'm
Certain they'll get a Chuckle
outta your making Lite of their

Devastations.

@83 -- seriously?

once more:

"Israel receives $3.8bn in military assistance annually and the Biden administration twice bypassed Congress last month to deliver an additional $250m in weapons."
--from @76.

@71: “…forced displacement, a form of genocide.”

Wrong:

“To constitute genocide, there must be a proven intent on the part of perpetrators to physically destroy a national, ethnical, racial or religious group. Cultural destruction does not suffice, nor does an intention to simply disperse a group.”

(https://www.un.org/en/genocideprevention/genocide.shtml)

@70: “So now YOU decide what This Thread is about?”

That was quick! @21, you slobbered praise all over @20 for his (mis)interpretation of the ICJ’s ruling on genocide. You took special effort to note the definition the ICJ used was also the one you used:

“my "Secret" definition
of Genocide' wormtongue?

“see:
the ICJ.
they Get it.”

Quick question for everyone screaming “genocide” at Israel: did Hamas commit genocide in Israel in 10/7? Why or why not?

@85

No dewey
you miss the
point entirely

the point Wasn’t about
the Size of the Weaponry:

“'No WMDs!'
dewey?

so
they're
Weapons of
minimal* Destruction?”

the Bloody point was about
the Effects of OUR TAX DOLLAR$$$
so gottdamm Hard at Work.* the Starvation’s
a Nice Touch too. Oh and I heard on npr Israel’s
shelling the Last Standing Hospital in Gaza. a Classy

Move, anywhere. So it Ain’t Genocide.
so What? End it mr. President.
You are our Last Hope.*

*Nearly THIRTY THOUSAND
DEAD and 90,000 Severe-
ly Injured Gazans no
we didn’t buy it
All but Let’s
be Finish’d.

also cut BiBi off.

*so no WMDs! And
Exclusively WmDs
From Now On.

Gotchya.

*BEFORE
Armageddon
mr. president.

thnx!

@89 swapped
minimal for
Minimal

apologie!

"@90, So as long as Israel gets its weapons on the international market, it's OK if Gazans get killed in the crossfire of non U.S. weapons?" --@cap'n

no
it's got
Nothing
to Do with
it. you okay
paying BiBi's
genocidal way?

not ME
baby.

or @91
rather.

i m so
confused!

@93
duh.

ignore
@93.

@60 & @61 Garb for the WIN!!!!!!

@62 Catalina Vel-DuRay: Yes, I do remember the two incidents involving the McDonnell-Douglas DC-10s, however vaguely. Like surgical procedures in which under anesthesia we are to trust doctors, nurses, and medical staff, we are to trust pilots, flight attendants, aerodynamic engineers, ground crews, et al. while taking off up in the sky, flying some 36,000 feet in the air, and landing safely. The thought can be a bit daunting.
While I am grateful that my two most recent domestic flights with Allegiant Airlines to and from Los Angeles in November, 2022 were perfectly fine (we even touched back in Bellingham about thirty minutes ahead of schedule), I am somewhat grateful not to have a need to fly very often.

@69 Bauhaus I: It sounds like your flying experiences have been wonderful. Mine have been, too, for the most part. I guess (for me, anyway) it's what makes tragic plane crashes so unsettling. I know it's basically a law of averages, but how did we get so lucky and others less fortunate?

"@92,
So its OK
if Gazans die,
as long as its with
other people's money. Got it."

fuck you
and your Bizarre
Rationalizations Wormtongue II.

speaking of
Speaking to
bazooka joe:

nyt:

Black Pastors Pressure Biden
to Call for a Cease-Fire in Gaza

Black congregants’ dismay
at President Biden’s posture on
the war could imperil his re-election bid.

As the Israel-Hamas war enters its fourth month, a coalition of Black faith leaders is pressuring the Biden administration to push for a cease-fire — a campaign spurred in part by their parishioners, who are increasingly distressed by the suffering of Palestinians and critical of the president’s response to it.

More than 1,000 Black pastors representing hundreds of thousands of congregants nationwide have issued the demand. In sit-down meetings with White House officials, and through open letters and advertisements, ministers have made a moral case for President Biden and his administration to press Israel to stop its offensive operations in Gaza, which have killed thousands of civilians.

They are also
calling for the release
of hostages held by Hamas and an
end to Israel’s occupation of the West Bank.

The effort at persuasion also carries a political warning…

--by Maya King

more, fittingly:
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/01/28/us/politics/black-pastors-biden-gaza-israel.html

C'MON Joe!
your capitualations
to Nutnyahoo're gonna
spell the End of Democracy

as we know it now.
show US Your
True Colors:

and
end the
madness.

@100

a
weak
projection
even from you.

keep
trying!

@102

another one!

what's that they say:
if you give an infinite
number of monkees an
infinite number of keyboards
eventually they'll come up with

Something.

keep
Trying
dewey!

Who
Knows?!

ps:
WmDs,
baby. ketchup.

[is this stupid
thing working?]

and so it
Begins?

nyt:
Drone
Strike Kills
3 U.S. Soldiers in
Jordan, White House Says

The attack,
which the U.S.
said was conducted by
an Iran-backed militia, will likely
put pressure on President Biden to respond forcefully.

https://www.nytimes.com/live/2024/01/28/world/israel-hamas-gaza-news

End the
MADNESS
Armageddon Joe

We
Runnin’
Outta time, dude.

[dear tS:
your comments
finder's On the Fritz.]

@Garbby -- 'colonize
other Planets'? right
there's our Problem

colonizing
stip-mining
the Locals is
BAD for the
Colonized.

wait'll the
the Real
Aliens
arrive:

let's Hope
they're not
"Republicans."

@ts
other
than com-
menting & then
having to go to one's
History to get back to Here*

how's
jqpubic
ever gonna
appear? huh?

*Whatta
fuckin' Schlogg.
I'm Worn out.

"The attack . . .
will likely put pressure on
President Biden to respond forcefully."

https://www.nytimes.com/live/2024/01/28/world/israel-hamas-gaza-news

of Course!
our Reich Wing's
bloodlust & profiteers'll
Never Let an Opportunity like
a litte War to pass Them by. we've
got WMDs* (AND WmDs!) to hand them.*

*no
Nukes
no Poison Gas
nor whateverthe Fuck

it's just a little
it's like a Street
Sweep only More
Challenging for the
TWO Million Displaced

Fully replete with Tanks, Fighter Jets
an Army! -- SPOG's Dream obv.

*OUR
Tax DOLLARS
at Work. nice, eh?

still*
busted!
C'est laVie

*tS, have you no
Techie Interns
chained up in
the basement?

a little
disappointed

tis
Fixed!

nevermind
then.

or is it

@102
"What
if I had not
been around
to call you on it?"

yeah.
Where
you Been?
you've Aban-
doned your Friends

and now
this "thread"
has gone to Hell
inna Handbasket sans
your wisdomy, guiding hands

"Oh, never mind. Nobody
takes you seriously
anyway."

well,
That's
certainly
a Comfort.

I do hope
Some'll take
my copy/pastey
seriously though.

I know
I do.

good
nite.

@105,108

from Letters From an American
by Heather Cox Richardson

Republican war hawks have called for retaliation that includes “striking directly against Iranian targets and its leadership,” as Senator Roger Wicker (R-MS) said, or by “Target[ing] Tehran,” as Senator John Cornyn (R-TX) said.

Republicans are blaming Biden for failing to “isolate the regime in [Iran], defeat Hamas, & support our strategic partners,” as Representative Carlos Gimenez (R-FL) wrote on X, formerly Twitter, today.

But there is, of course, a larger story here. The Biden administration has been very clear both about the right of nations to retaliate for attacks and about its determination to stop the war between Hamas and Israel from spreading.

Iran would like that war to spread. It is eager to stop the normalization of relations between Arab states and Israel, and is backing Hamas in Gaza, the Houthis in Yemen, and Hezbollah in Lebanon—all nonstate militias—to try to stop that normalization.

They are trying to stop what Patrick Kingsley and Edward Wong outlined in the New York Times yesterday: a new deal in the Middle East that would end the war between Hamas and Israel and establish a Palestinian state.

The constant round of phone calls and visits of Biden and Secretary of State Antony Blinken with at least ten different countries is designed to hammer out deals on a number of fronts.

The first is for a cease-fire between Hamas and Israel, which would require the exchange of more than 100 Israeli hostages taken on October 7 for thousands of Palestinians held by the Israelis.

The second is for a new, nonpartisan Palestinian Authority to take control of Gaza and the West Bank.

The third is for international recognition of a Palestinian state, which would be eased by Saudi Arabia’s recognition of Israel. If that recognition occurs, Arab states have pledged significant funds to rebuild Gaza.

Israel’s prime minister, Benjamin Netanyahu, has rejected this proposal, but his popularity is so low people are talking openly about who can replace him.

--Heather Cox Richardson; Jan. 28, 2024

tonnes more, most instructively:
https://heathercoxrichardson.substack.com/p/january-28-2024?

[tis still not
fixed tS]

[it might Be fixed!
whoopie! well
done, tS!]

[Back to the
Basement
intern!]

@21, @70: So, your definition of “genocide” is exactly the one used by the IJC in their preliminary ruling on Israel and genocide? Because both comments imply that is the case, but I’d like to have it explicitly from you, to ensure I got it right.

@118
don't Matter
what it's Called
there's 27,000 Dead
75,000 badly Injured
& MONTHS more Carnage
Death and Destruction according
to BiBi to follow. it's just a little Ethnic

Cleansing. nothing to see here. move along.

but yeah
wormmmy
maybe we Ougtta
Wait till Every Last Gazan

-scuze Me

every last
HAMAS
is gone*

remember:
it's All About
The Cruelty! ;)

*will
That
satisfy
Nutnyahoo
and you too?

to be
Grammatically
Correct? maybe
you could help write
Palestine's Eulogy with
all the Just Right Words.

it'll give Gazans a
little Something
to look Forward
to. good luck!

@117

so That's
Your Message
to Palestinians?

you two're
like a Breath
of Fresh Aire
to the Grimmest
of Reapers. how lovely.

[tis
Still
Busted @
la Stranger]!

@100: Take a look in your bathroom mirror, raindrop dear.

@119: That was a pathetic attempt at a dodge, even by your standards.

If you can’t even say you’re using (or not using) the definition of genocide the ICJ cited, then there’s no point in anyone else pretending you even have a definition. Flail away with your meaningless words all you like, and convince yourself you’ve “won,” uh, something, when no one responds.

Have a nice “life”.

'Flail away with your
meaningless words
all you like'

sure thing
Wormtongue.

here's a few More.

nyt:
‘We Are Not Very Far From an Explosion’
--by Roger Cohen; 1/31/24

two wee excerpts:

Ehud Olmert, Israel’s prime minister from 2006 to 2009, describes the situation more bluntly and more personally. “Mr. Netanyahu is a greater danger than the war, in fact than all our enemies put together,” he told me.

and

“Since his first speech after Oct. 7, Israelis have appointed Biden president of the Zionist movement for life,” Olmert says. “He has the leverage, and he does not have much time.”

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/01/31/magazine/west-bank-palestinians-settlers.html#commentsContainer

it’s nice to see
someone Else* agrees
with me. Thanks, mr. Olmert!

Free Israel:
Fire Nutnyahoo
whilst you Can, Israel (and
pay No attention to ol wormmy here)

and Shut It DOWN
Mr. President
whilst ye
Can.

oh wormmy
your pleadings
bleatings and vile
projections have been
a Banshee's Scream for
Nutnyhaoo's Massacre to
continue unabated uncriticized
and Disaffected by the World's O-
pinion of the Terror Israel Continues
to rain down upon horror-stricken Gazans

your drowning
in DeNile not-
withstanding.

reposted,
by popular
demands. mine.

'there is
No justification
for Terror. fucking EVER.'

wormtongue, paraphrased,
in his sole fleeting
moment of
clarity.

'there is
No justification
for Terrorism. fucking EVER.'

fixed!

still! busted
@ tS.

testing

@125, 126:

'wormtongue, paraphrased,
in his One, sole Fleeting
moment of Lucidity.'

there. fixed
that one
too.

this follows
directly
@128

@128

nope
No @129

comment History
here I come

@119: “don't Matter
what it's Called”

This after months of yelling “Genocide!”

And you still call someone else, “Wormtongue”.

Priceless.

@131

well
you've
More than
Earned It wormmy:

Over 800 Officials in U.S. and
Europe Sign Letter Pro-
testing Israel Policies

The document
was signed by government
employees in 12 nations and E.U. institutions.

Signers say their leaders’ policies
could be contributing to
war crimes in Gaza.

“Our governments’ current policies weaken their moral standing and undermine their ability to stand up for freedom, justice and human rights globally,” the letter says, according to a copy obtained Thursday by The New York Times

It adds that “there is a plausible risk that our governments’ policies are contributing to grave violations of international humanitarian law, war crimes and even ethnic cleansing or genocide.”

--by Edward Wong and Matina Stevis-Gridneff

more:
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/02/02/us/politics/protest-letter-israel-gaza.html

that’s Weird

it might possibly not even
BE Genocide and these peeps’re
all Shook Up over a little – what do you

call it, Pro-Nutnyahooo supporters? just a little
War? on Gazans? On Palestians? Oh, right – on HAMAS!

Till The LAST HAMAS, then!

as long as it's
NOT "genocide'!

I'm sorry:
what Was it you were
Saying, Wormtongue?

“Our governments’ current policies weaken their moral standing and undermine their ability to stand up for freedom, justice and human rights globally.”

fucking
Bravo.