It would be a kindness for this woman to cut loose her pathetic excuse of a spouse before the child gets to know him. Lawyer, divorce, child support in that order. Do it quickly, lady!

Yeah, 5/6 are bad enough that a responsible parent should seek to minimize this person's role in your child's life. Even if LW gets enough out of this person's company to compensate for his shitiness as a person, she's got another human to think about now.

Usually, when that sort of person (who refuses any scrutiny of their behaviour) says "It won't happen again", it means "It's still happening and I don't want you to pry because you might find out about it."

Run, lady, run.

Dan, you seem pretty forgiving of this human shitstain. Why she is so forgiving I don't know. It totally sucks that such a rare gal (open to open relationships) is with such a jackwagon. She should dump him, sue the pants off him (he seems pretty cool with taking his pants off), and find someone who will respect her and treat her right.

You have a numbered list of all the ways you were wronged. Unless you want both of you to live in a perennial punisher/supplicant roleplay AND you want to raise your child in such, get out.

No apologies, no handwringing, no interpretative dance of regret will make you forget. You can both be loving and involved parents and you may even find a way to be friends but all this wasn't an oops. How can you trust what he'll do, what he'll risk, the next time life inconveniences him?

It's like two people wrote one letter together. On one hand it lists all of the unforgivable things the husband did but on the other hands says "no biggie."

Wonder what our in-house bible fetishists will tell us now. Will they present this case as a proof that marriage isn't working?

"Why she is so forgiving I don't know."

Because they're married, have been for 10 years, and have a kid together.

If he'd been this shitty to her from the moment they met, I doubt they'd have lasted 10 minutes much less 10 years. He's probably been mostly good to her, she's just not talking about that because she's thinking of this shitty thing he's done at the moment.

I'd give it a shot with a counselor, but he'd better start singing a more "I'm committed to working together to fix this" tune pretty fucking fast or I'd do what the rest of the commenters above are suggesting.

Without communication, there is no relationship. There just isn’t. You already received advice on therapy, etc. so I won’t rehash that.

That said, much as I’m WTFing WTF’s husband, I’m WTFing her too. The cheating is something I personally could get past if it really were a thing where he basically needed to get off & it was meaningless. Not so forgiving about not using protection, which makes me wonder if perhaps there isn’t a longer term affair.

I also have to say that I don’t know about most people, but the whole ‘I HAVE to schedule sex & get knocked up ASAP!!!!’ women make me crazy & I’m a woman! I’m not saying it’s your fault. He has a brain. He made those decisions. Period. What I am saying is that if you were trying to talk to me to resolve something & that kept coming up, I’d be ready to jump out the window.

‘I was too busy growing a human to deal...’ Well, okay, but based on this it sounds like the two of you have had serious communication issues for quite some time. It doesn’t sound new.

While I’d echo therapy, I must say even going on your own would likely be beneficial. You’ve only sent a fraction of the story & there are so many red flags in my face, I may be going temporarily blind. Why do you want to be in this marriage... even if it’s open, I’m kind of lost because honestly, I’m getting a vibe of wanting some kind of lifestyle he may be providing (staying at home with your baby, perhaps?) than necessarily wanting to be with him as a lover & partner. I may be out in left field, but that’s tugging at me pretty hard, much as I can’t pin point exactly why.

@9 uhh, if you are actively trying to conceive, then yes, it does help to schedule sex during your window of presumed ovulation. No need for hysterical woman tropes. Plus Dan has been telling us for years it's a-ok (recommended, even) to schedule sex just in general, to make sure we all get some amid busy lives.

@9 Given that this person has an unpleasant hormonal disorder, getting pregnant and back onto hormonal birth control ASAP sounds rather more sensible than hysterical to me.

If he was seeing reputable sex workers they would not have fucked him unprotected. He is for sure involving himself and YOU in higher risk situations.

@8 I know, his attitude here is completely unhealthy. He just expects her to bury it all under the rug (to be fair, she did at first, but I suppose that being preoccupied with a difficult pregnancy is an extenuating circumstance). But, if he won't talk about the problem, how can she trust that if she catches the flu from their baby, he won't decide once more, "Welp, too long since I got laid and the wife is puking her guts out, so I'm gonna download Tinder ahead of this next business trip."

I'd have DTMFA'd him long ago. Unprotected sex with random internet persons? Almost giving her a STI? One that could've caused a miscarriage? It's like he was trying to see how many items on the DTMFA checklist one husband could hit.

I agree with #9 that there seems to be more to the story as to why you aren’t willing to leave him— money, lifestyle, status..... something. Not that there is anything wrong with that! But a woman with some money / potential to make some of her own and even an average amount of self esteem would have left that dirt bag DURING the pregnancy. So there has to be another reason why you didn’t even process all of this until now. It might help with the advice if you “come clean” as to why you would even consider staying with this person.

You dont have to divorce him to leave him. A temporary break, ideally with therapy, might be enough for him to see that you mean business. Do you? People screw up, sometimes very, very badly. The question is, will he really grow and change fom this? And will you?

He sounds incredibly self-absorbed. If you decide to stay, I would focus marriage counseling on that issue first. It's difficult to be in a relationship with someone solely focused on himself.

And, not that it matters, but I'm suspicious of his desire not to talk about this matter. I'd be willing to guess he either cheated with someone you know or with a dude.

Go to a counselor and also start listening to Esther Perel’s “Where should we begin?” The first episode is all about a couple working through cheating and the complicated feelings of each person. Good luck!

And, as a general note to all those who've been cheated on, reboots are popular! So, never discount the idea of writing a book about what happened to you and then have it turned in to a movie. Although, Jack and Meryl are probably too old to play you at this point, but I'm sure some new actors could step in.

Or at least move into a duplex, stay coupled for parenting and dinner and dropping the kid off at day-care, and do what you both want in the evening.

What kind of prostitutes don't use condoms? There's a million red flags here. LW, what do your friends say? You do have other people in your life to support you, right? I'm hoping your motivation to stay isn't just so you don't have to be totally alone.

Now what?

You talk to a divorce lawyer, is what.

We teach people how to treat us. Your choosing to stay with your husband despite the fact that he has treated you with nothing short of contempt? You are teaching him that this is okay with you.

And you are teaching your child to either emulate you (staying with someone like this) or to emulate your husband (cheating on his wife for the most immature of reasons, risking her health, and then blaming her for it all.)

If you need counseling to get up the strength to leave him, then do so. And then leave him. Don't tell him you're doing it either; someone like him clearly wants to have his wife and fuck his prostitutes too. Don't give him a chance to wheedle and whine and wear you down. Get up your nerve, leave him, and then stay in counseling your own self to build up what is a far-too-low reservoir of self-esteem.

Then, once you're free of him and fucking someone who won't treat you like that, you'll be so glad you left.

You know, guys, when you’re in a relationship and you feel your needs aren’t being met — especially when there are extenuating circumstances like ovulation windows even if you don’t yet know about a hormonal imbalance — maybe try masturbation first?

If he needs to be met elsewhere, then encourage him to say that . He is always gna want that , it do didnt just go away. So the best thing if y’all want to stay together would be to find some common ground to walk on and maybe encourage him to do it in front of you or something ? Idk. With a kid involved it’s a little tricky, well a lot tricky. Do not do what that random monkey bitch says, that is definately not something a good woman does to her man. After all, you had a child with him hopefully because you saw him as the best potential mate you could have. So I’m assuming that is the reason u are staying with him. Do not ever go the child support lawyer route Cuz the court does not have any kind of business in loving relationships, and it should not be an acceptable way of going about things for us in general for a families sake.
Thanks for your time& article!!!
Shanen

He wouldn't have gone for an open marriage. They don't want their wives to have fuck buddies, just them.

What you do now is use condoms whenever you have sex with him.

Aw, can it with the "you must be staying for his money because nobody would be so dumb as to stay otherwise" comments.

Anybody who's read any advice column for any length of time knows it's normal for people -- smart people too -- to stay when they objectively really should go. This is why "DTMFA" was invented.

Oh, WTF, DTMFA.

LW, a tough one.. and the only piece of info you've given that shows maybe your husband isn't a complete tool, is that you say he feels ashamed for what he did. It's a start to him turning this childish and selfish behaviour around.
Yes, dumping him would be option no one, except baby and you say you don't want a divorce, not now anyway.
If he's avoiding talking of it, that's not good enough. He's got to expect to be sitting in the sin bin till you feel he really has turned a page and will now conduct himself like an adult husband and father.
Therapy may be the only way he's really going to help heal this, someone else witnessing your story and helping you both re set the marriage.

Wow. WTF, you've got WAY more tolerance for bullshittery and assholishness than me! Baby or not, I would have been out the door the second I learned of this whole sordid mess. MAYBE, I'd give a qualified, competent couples counselor a try, but only AFTER I had removed myself & baby from the house. Actions have CONSEQUENCES. And this prick deserves a heapin' helpin' of them. And here's a little secret. Divorce (even with a newborn baby) isn't the end of the world. People do go on. Life does go on, and can be even better than before. Buuuut...you are not me, and seem to be determined to hang in there with this callous, lying sack of shit, so get your asses into counseling like yesterday! Good luck and don't believe a word your husband says for the next three years.

It's perfectly understandable why you are hesitant to leave him when you're dealing with a newborn. And you're going to be seeing this guy regularly for the next 18 years or so, either as a husband or to let him have his custody time with the child, to get child support (if you earn substantially less than him), and at parent-teacher conferences and such. So IF the marriage can be salvaged, it will make life a lot easier. You say he's a good partner other than this, so perhaps he's just really naive about sex, and afraid to talk with you as a result (and maybe you are, too). A lot of guys are a mess when the first baby is on the way; thinking their sex life is over, and it's the last chance to try something different. But the way he went about dealing with that was almost unforgivable. A good sex-positive marriage counselor can help you both communicate better and talk about needs and behaviors. I'll go with @8: You both need to open up about what you need sexually and where your hard boundaries are. At best, you'll be able to discuss things more openly and draw closer to each other. At worst, you'll develop good skills for having a great relationship with his replacement.

I agree with gatoverde@ 21. He has no respect for her - she's just the "wife appliance" to him, and he doesn't see why she has the right to be upset about betrayal any more than the blender should. DTMFA.

The first six or seven responses that offer advice say 'DTMFA'. I wouldn't say that. I'd give Dan's advice, very urgently. Get him to talk. In particular, find out, as fully as you can, what will happen when your libido is low again and you cannot offer the frequency of sex he has come to expect.

There are a number of reasons that he could be closing discussion of his behavior down. The first is shame. He's been brought up with unthinking het monogamy as a norm. When he violates that, he shrinks from his actions and doesn't want to countenance them, mentally. It’s also very possible, as Dan says, that he has some kink or orientation he doesn't want you to know about. Another reason is remorse. Because he's remorseful, he's indicating his commitment, in a way unable to deal, by refusing to engage with what he did. The last is power dynamics within the relationship. He doesn't want to give you the upper hand in your future co-parenting, co-habiting and (in all probability) sex life by living under the permanently present cloud of his misdemeanor. This reason is selfish. In fact, all these reasons are bad for you. They offer you no protection whatsoever for what your husband is likely to do when he's sexually dissatisfied in the future.

My feeling would be that your relationship was based on sex--a satisfactory frequency and quality of sex for him--without your knowing it. This state of ignorance meant you didn't plan for eventualities if the sex ever stopped. (All my relationships, incidentally, have been the same; I am a gay male/GQ bottom, always ready to give out. But in your relationship you are in much deeper; you have a child). You give some sense in your letter that you would be willing to grant a tightly negotiated hall pass if you knew everything about it. And could trust that was all there was. Is this true? If it's not, start thinking how you could raise your child without him. If you want to stay with him and want him to be around as the father, do your damndest to get him to be open about his 'needs', on the clear understanding you're not blaming him but redefining the boundaries of your relationship. Don't make it about how hurt you are or who is right (of course you're right). Put it in the light of his getting a shot at being the father of his child. There seemed to me two parts to your letter: one where you expressed hurt in public, in a cathartic way, at how he's abused your trust and endangered you, and the other where you ask what to do. I'd also think you know you should do the 'talking to him' thing anyways, if only as a prelude to splitting if he can't engage.

@9. iskidv. It’s entirely plausible to me that the LW shut down consideration of 'what just happened' for a while because he was focused on her pregnancy. People in that situation are often in the grip of magical and perhaps-not-magical thinking: 'if I let it consume me, it will damage the fetus'. Now all these questions about him have surfaced more powerfully.

@15. Westy. Your advice is tantamount to saying 'he has to accept 10% of the sex he's used to as punishment'. That won't work. He needs his amount of sex so badly he's cheated, imperiled his unborn child--and he can't discuss it. Her starting-point has to be what's her attitude to his hopeless need for this.

"In order for me to feel safe I need to hear from him that he understands where he screwed up"

This will never, ever happen. He won't say the words, and in the off chance he does, LW won't hear them.

@27. Mtn. Beaver. It’s easier to say DTMFA than to do it. Easier to say about a purely paper figure, for whom one has no feelings, than about a complex lover and companion, whose attractive qualities are evidently enough bound up in his frailties. Easier to do it after six months than six years. And before you have a child with this motherf--.

Why is she writing the letter? To nerve herself to get the strength to leave him? Or to get advice on how to mend her relationship? Only she knows. And perhaps even she doesn't know fully.

I knew someone whose partner cheated on her dozens of times during her pregnancy with multiples. No one could understand why she didn't leave. They stayed married until the kids were in college...and then he died. I read the tributes his kids wrote, and wondered if they had ever known what their dad had done when they were in utero, and who knows, maybe beyond. But as far as I could tell, the couple made their marriage work enough to raise healthy kids.

CMD @7: Ha, good point. This is great evidence of how superior monogamy is. Shame Commie has been kicked off (cue world's tiniest violin).

Cosmic @14: Sorry, but "needing help to raise an infant" strikes me as more than sufficient motivation to want to keep one's spouse in the picture.

Honey @20: My impression is that this dirtbag probably had sex with prostitutes AND randoms, whoever he could find.

Scary @24: As the wife was not on birth control and was attempting to get pregnant, I doubt she would have wanted other partners during this trying-to-conceive period of non-monogamy. They had the option to close the relationship again once regular sex was once again possible.

Ankyl @26: I prefer "what you do now is not have sex with him," because not all STIs can be prevented by condom use. But yes, if she's crazy enough to stay with him, condoms for life.

I agree with all the DTMFAs. In my mind, everything was forgivable except for the sex being unprotected. Being callous with one's own sexual health is one thing; being callous with one's spouse's -- and future child's -- is indeed unforgivable. Either lawyer up now, or tell him your marriage henceforth will be one of co-parenting only. He can screw whoever he wants -- he already is -- and you will too, and that doesn't include him.

@38. I don't necessarily disagree with all the other DTMFAs already but--to me--we need to know more.

She says 'I don't want a divorce', that he's a good partner, that there are no other major issues in their relationship. Anyone saying DTMFA is saying it over her head and against her (apparent) wishes. I can't think that 'you don't know best about your own life' or 'take it from me, you don't know best' is a good place to start. The people offering those comments should at least acknowledge that they go against her grain, or that they are not what the seasoned advice columnist said. I'd guess that at least some of them are piggybacking on the LW's individual case to project what their own feelings would be, or were, in a scenario happening to them. Thinking of WTF now, counseling would unravel what her relationship has been like for the last ten years. For instance, has he dominated her? Has she deferred to him? Or was this one exceptional lapse, brought about by his being unable to restrain his horniness for sex?

Harriet @39: I admire the thoughtfulness of your post @32. It's almost convincing enough to make me rethink my DTMFA. Perhaps he is entitled to one last chance -- one chance to communicate, in a therapist's office. I mean, this guy can stick his bare dick in randoms but he can't TALK about it? He's not mature enough to be a parent, IMO. Remember, this wasn't one lapse, it was several, and if "we were only doing it once or twice a month" was enough of an excuse for him to cheat (unsafely), how much sex is she going to have to give him to keep him from straying in future? I don't like this idea that "being unable to restrain his horniness" is an acceptable excuse; commitment to monogamy REQUIRES one to restrain one's horniness, and ethical non-monogamy requires one to wear a goddamned condom with anyone who's not your STI-tested primary partner. Anyone who "can't restrain his horniness" can't be trusted, and therefore should be dumped.

I get your reasoning why Mr WTF is finding it difficult to talk about his transgressions, but talking about them should be the (minimum) price of admission for WTF's forgiveness. It's more than he deserves, but if WTF wants to keep him, he needs to communicate. As Dan said, "If he won't answer your questions, WTF, he won't be able earn back your trust."

@40. Bi. 'Being unable to restrain his horniness' is NOT an acceptable excuse. His behavior is inexcusable. The only person who can excuse his behavior is her--and that in the sense of moving forward in a relationship with him and/or co-parenting. But I don't think that anyone is arguing for his cheating to be given a second look, as something that was always on the cards or forced by the pattern of how she interacted with him.

The question is what she does now. To me, people saying DTMFA are taking the line, 'what he did was so heinous that it cancels out whatever you had together for the past ten years'. 'It cancels out anything you think about him'--it's so generally or universally bad that 'anyone, in any situation, should DTMFA and then figure out what to do' e.g. how to arrange childcare. But I think it's for WTF to ask herself whether it cancels out the last ten years.

You're saying 'don't have a relationship with someone you can't trust'. Based on what WTF has said, I don't think her partner could be trusted to be monogamous with her, especially at a time when her libido is likely to fluctuate or go off the boil (raising a small child). Does this mean she should dump him? Some will say 'yes'. I don't disagree with them morally. The alternative is for her to work out what she can accept. To fix some boundaries with him and hold him to commitments as a parent, provider and lover if required. Of course, it's possible that she wouldn't be able to trust him e.g. just to have sex with sex workers of his favored gender/orientation just when agreed and necessarily wearing a condom. But it's at least possible to me that he would be able to stick to this, as he was not able to stick to monogamous sexlessness. What went on during the ten years of their essentially happy relationship? It seems, at least, that he was getting the sex he needed and didn't stray.

With letters like this, I feel like my general tendency is to give more weight to the LW's "I still love him and don't want to leave him" sentiment than most do. I'll usually be scrolling through the general DTMFA consensus and thinking to myself: it's ridiculous how everyone pushes the dumping, and disregards the LW's assessment that there is enough in the relationship to make it worth trying to save.

So with that established as my baseline, I agree with everyone this time. This poor woman needs to divorce this man and get out of this marriage as quickly as possible. The reason he doesn't want to talk about it because it's still ongoing. He can't give you specifics because he can't effectively spin a web of lies that won't trip him up later. His explanation was that he had to get his needs met while their sex was subpar? You know who else tends to have subpar sex? Parents of a newborn.

I'm sorry your husband turned out not to be the man you thought he was, but please get out and end this marriage before your child gets to know you two as married parents. He is continuing to cheat and you will discover it again one day.

@ Harriet 41 - I don't agree with everything you've said (I'm with BiDanFan @ 40)... but I do think you have a point that at the end of the day, this is about what WTF is willing to accept, not what any of us would. I'd have left him to wallow in his raging inability to keep it in his pants, but I want a monogamous commitment, or at the very least, playing with a third as a couple. If WTF is okay with something else, that's her choice.

All that said, though, if he's not willing to communicate openly and honestly (this couple needs a therapist, stat), then WTF has only two choices: leave, or live with the current state of affairs.

While reading the same "Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln" came to my mind too.

She should never have gotten with (let alone had a baby with) Mr. Asshat to begin with, and I'm feeling irritated at both of them that now there's a pooch that needs un-fucking.

Husband behaves apallingly, then won't even discuss it. For wife to have chosen such a person, let alone brought a baby into the picture, strongly suggests she herself also has some deep issues. I mean it: in my time I too chose very badly, and at the time that said something about me too.

Maybe they can both get into therapy and transform/grow into brand new, healthy people. Or maybe she can but he can't. I'm inclined to think the baby would be better off being in the primary custody of a healthy adult. (OTOH, by that measure most parents would never have kids, but I still think it would be a good practice, which perhaps would force people to fix themselves before inflicting their lack of psychological health upon their next generation. Of course many of the people most in need of such a practice, religious wackos, make prayer [!] their sole practice towards self-development.)

Harriet @ 39 "She says 'I don't want a divorce' [...] Anyone saying DTMFA is saying it over her head and against her (apparent) wishes."

Most married people don't want a divorce. Change is daunting. Sometimes it takes outside observers to tell them "Your marriage is a trainwreck waiting to happen and you just can't seem to see it. Get out now before it's too late." I - and apparently many others here - believe this is such a case.

That said, our opinion on the subject thoroughly fails to matter. We don't even know if the LW is reading the comments. We are all, as always, merely speculating. And if she does read the comments and finds something that rings true, she's free to act on it. This is not binding arbitration, as Dan is fond of saying, it's just the thoughts of people with nothing better to do with their time.

@45 "This is not binding arbitration, as Dan is fond of saying, it's just the thoughts of people with nothing better to do with their time."

I'll have you know I have countless better things to do with my time!

I'm just an outrageously terrible procrastinator. :)

The LW’s husband never wanted a child; the LW did: “...I got off birth control to try to have a baby...” Not “we decided...”

Once she’d made that decision, he did everything he could to avoid impregnating her, and even tried to use an STI to induce an abortion. He either lacked the wherewithal to speak up for himself, or had learned that talking with her (at least on this topic) was a waste of his time.

He may be secretly hoping she’ll leave with the child and never return.

She may know or suspect this, and is hanging on to obtain the financial and caregiving child support she would lose if she left.

What a mess. I hope the child somehow grows up happy and healthy.

Jy @ 46 - That would make you an outrageously excellent procrastinator, not a terrible one.

Harriet @41: We don't know that Mr WTF didn't cheat on WTF in the 8+ years before they tried to conceive. We only know that he didn't get caught. I think the odds that he was cheating long before the low-sex period, and the odds that he will, as JyLckhart says @42, continue to cheat during the low-sex period they're currently in, are very high. This whole "well if he was getting enough sex he wouldn't cheat" puts the onus on WTF to stop her husband from cheating by providing sex on demand, instead of putting the onus on him to keep it in his pants (or TALK TO HER about his needs), and that's shitty. That means that every time she's tired or has a headache, she'll worry that he'll go out and bang a sex worker. That is no way to live.

If she does stay, like Ankyl @26 says, she needs to make sure he uses condoms and gets tested regularly. She can't control whether he uses condoms with other people, but she can control whether he uses them with her. And she should accept that she'll catch herpes and/or HSV. He's shown her who he is -- he's a lying, careless, spineless slut. I have no advice for her if she stays, other than enjoy your STIs and his child-support payments.

If abortion were safe, libre, gratis, and on-demand, WTF would have had a much more accessible option to NOT drag another human into this shit show. That could have been a good option to choose in this case, but, sadly, that ship has sailed.

"He generally has trouble communicating openly about sex."

Red flag that should have prevented anyone from ever fucking this guy*: if you can't discuss it, you shouldn't be doing it; at the very least, this makes necessary conversation about consent, boundaries, and safety difficult-to-impossible (as demonstrated in this letter). And then the cheating/lying, without protection, and apparently willful STI exposure stack on top of that. I don't really mean to pile on WTF or berate her for not noticing something earlier; I do see so very many letters to advice columns where people ignore all kinds of obvious-to-me red flags when paying attention to them would have saved a lot of grief, and maybe noting this will help others. Plus, WTF apparently thinks that someone who behaves like this will be a less-bad-than-none (or even good?) co-parent and role model for the child - now she's considering poor life choices for two, so maybe I do mean to pile on a bit if it will stop her.

@39/41: "She says 'I don't want a divorce', that he's a good partner, that there are no other major issues in their relationship."

Yeah, no major issues besides his refusal to communicate about important elements of his relationship with his wife-and-baby-mamma, risking his wife's and possible future baby's (at the time, actual baby now) health, and deception. Granted, I already think that his refusal to talk about sex should disqualify him as a sex partner for anybody (sadly, I can't reverse time for WTF so that she can dump his ass 11 years ago), but I have the same reaction to this that I do to the partners of abusers who say the same thing: that's not good enough, you need to leave, (for people in my meatspace life) I'm here to help with the logistics of leaving, and I'm not going to have conversations about the shitty partner/relationship that I think you need to leave when all I have to say is partner/relationship is shitty and you need to leave, which you already know.

WTF is writing for advice, soliciting Dan's opinion directly and, given the nature of this enterprise, that of commenters indirectly, so the attempts to get this woman to see what a douchebag her husband has been/is being aren't out of line. It is indeed up to her what she does - she can take or leave any of the advice; I think she should take the consensus advice and leave him.

*As are patterns of sexist or racist jokes, sincere belief in an authoritarian religious tradition (especially if it's patriarchal), voting for Donald Trump, refusing to discuss or lying about money, a man leaving all or the strong majority of domestic labor for a girlfriend/wife, Nazi/Confederate/other White supremacist paraphernalia or tattoos, taking pleasure in being cruel to others, frequently belittling or questioning one's partner, getting angry when a partner doesn't automagically intuit and comply with one's unspoken wishes, demands for all of one's time and attention, sabotaging or demanding one cut off relationships with friends (especially common with friends of the same gender as one's partner) or family, frequent heated arguing, and intemperate outbursts at children/small animals/anyone less powerful; apparently a lot of people don't recognize these things as giant red flags and then are shocked when it "turns out" that they're dating assholes becasue "there were no signs!"

"if you can't discuss it, you shouldn't be doing it;" This is one of my rules. Because of it, I've coached a number of men who, for whatever reason, weren't able to say what they wanted to do sexually, and left them better than I found them.

@51 Your note says much more about you than about WTD. You're making all kinds of assumptions there that aren't justified when you assume the man involved was not allowed to talk freely about his needs and desires at any point in this marriage - which is the opposite of what WTD described. Didn't you read the part where she says she would have been fine opening up the marriage if he'd said he needed that? Are you talking about some past experience you went through, instead of listening to what she actually went through?

What you know is just the tip of the iceberg. He's likely been acting out for much of your lives together, possibly just pornography but clearly there's much more now. He won't stop until he hits rock bottom and gets help. The only thing you can do is seek counseling for yourself, look for someone who deals with sex addiction (CSAT). and pray that the truth will be revealed. You need to take steps to protect yourself and kid (s?) and talking with the right kind of counselor equipped to help you is the important first step. I recommend reading this book (Living with your husband's secret wars by Marsha Mean's):
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.amazon.com/Living-Your-Husbands-Secret-Wars/dp/0800757106&ved=2ahUKEwiTgd2K4_HbAhWGHTQIHRNlC4wQ5OUBMAh6BAgJEAE&usg=AOvVaw0DPYggj-nbyfNDNhJCNroJ

Prodigals international has a website, and Facing heartbreak by Stefanie Carne's is a good place to start.

And I'm so sorry to hear about this. You are not alone. So many women are in this process! I really hope you get there help you need and that he does as well.

@43. Victorian Platypus. It's not about who's right, but about what's best for WTF, her child and Mr Fuck. I'm certainly not saying that DTMFA is bad advice in this situation--if it's what the LW is feeling her way towards.

I can believe that his reasons for not being open about what happened are rooted in deep shame about something she doesn't know. For instance.... 'he has always had sex with men as a bottom behind her back. With his not getting enough/any as a top, he had a craving to try that with his randos or fuckbuddies, but had to get drugged to be psyched for it and, completely recklessly, forgot about condoms and played round with potentially HIV-positive people. This is how she found out about the cheating; he had to 'fess to enough of that to make sure the child wouldn't be born HIV-positive.'

Now, I'm not saying this is the explanation (it's farfetched), but WTF has to be happy it is the explanation if she can continue with him given his silence on the matter. Would she leave him if she knew this? If the answer's 'yes', maybe she should. Because the people who are saying that it won't be good for the child to become conscious in a household where his parents have the secrecy-shrouded type of relationship they do are also correct.

Further, would she be OK negotiating the terms of a hall pass with him if this is his sexuality? The answer could be 'no', and her husband could know that. Hence his refusal to engage.

@ 53 - "The man" (not much of a man, IMO) had outside sex without protection and almost gave his pregnant wife an STI. He also refuses to talk about it. Who the fuck would want his perspective?!?

I'm guessing YOU are that man.

@45. Ricardo. I think we're all trying to be helpful. That's my motivation. Sometimes I might take the letter as a cue for more general reflections on sex or gender politics; but this is really because I don't way to say or imply to the LW, 'boy, you're in a pickle'.

It wouldn't surprise if--often--LWs pored over every word of the comments. In this case, Dan commended the comments to her. So we have a smidgen extra responsibility to respond to the specifics of her case--not to rehearse our own priors on cheating.

@49. Bi. Primarily the onus is on him to talk. Yes, not to cheat. But assuming that as standard, to talk. I agree we should very much beware of victim-blaming if it turns out he strays again. It wouldn't be because she wasn't providing enough sex. It would be on him--just on him.

I'd think the odds he was cheating in the first eight years of their relationship high-ish. Certainly not nailed-on. Perhaps he was cheating with men? Pro-dommes? Trans people? Something he can't admit? It certainly wasn't my intention to provide unsound reassurance of the kind, 'don't worry, you can be sure he's not cheating any more'.

I wonder how she found out. She says "I discovered," which suggests he didn't come to her and confess. But if she'd snooped and found emails between him and an affair partner, or a sex worker, then presumably she would have a better sense of what happened.

Maybe she found some evidence of the treatment he got for his infection, and that led to her asking questions, which he answered, but not as fully as she would like.

My advice would be to assume that he's going to continue having sex with other people, and to tell him that you're going to assume that, at least until you can rebuild some trust in a year or two.

Get tested for a full panel of STIs. If you continue to have sex with him, get tested again every six months or so. And, yes, use condoms. And model good non-monogamy practices by telling him if you start dating other people. Use condoms with them too. But realize that condoms don't protect against everything; they're helpful but not perfect protection.

Bottom line: you don't have to have sex with him while you don't trust him. You could also initiate new sexual activities which don't involve fluid-exchange, like pegging him with a dildo, him fingering or fisting you with a glove on, and mutual masturbation while watching porn. It's possible to build a sex life that takes into consideration that he's fucking other people when he's out of town, and yet feels fun and fulfilling to the two of you. (People figure out all sorts of accommodations in the case of physical disability, after all.)

Might take some imagination, though, and more energy than two new parents probably have.

@50. John Horstman. Apropos your asterisk, you think Trump-voters have shitty marriages. Imv: not all of them. Some of them may have marriages more rooted in respect and mutuality than some impeccably Democratic listeners to Savage Love.

If you were a counselor, you wouldn't make much money. Very many consultations would be over in about three minutes. That's how quickly you would decide what the couple should do. You don't seem interested in determining the facts of the situation more closely e.g. did he cheat in the first eight years of their relationship? Can he talk about his lapse (fault, shittily reckless behavior)? What's preventing him? Why can't he talk about sex? Is she summoning up the strength to leave him? What kind of boundaries could she conceivably be happy with?

Dadddy @51: The existence of a baby is proof that she didn't "cut him off sexually for one and a half years."

OK, if the point is "was he on board with this baby-making plan and all its restrictions," that's a good question for WTF to ask herself. Presumably Mr WTF was on board, but with his complete inability to communicate about sex, perhaps he's equally incapable of communicating about whether he wants a baby and what he was willing to do to get one. If WTF unilaterally said "sex only once a month until I conceive," it was on Mr WTF to state that he didn't think that was fair and he wanted sex with condoms / blowjobs / etc on some of the off days. (I'm not a fertility expert so I have no idea whether PIV on the off days would hurt their chances; if he, like me, suspects they wouldn't, he should have said something instead of going out and banging randoms.)

Dadddy @53: The man isn't here to discuss his perspective, so yes, you are making assumptions.

Speaking @54: His incredibly risky behaviour when so much was at stake does indeed point to sex addiction. Thank you for pointing this out. WTF may want to make treatment a condition of staying, or of restarting their sex life.

Harriet @55: "If you don't tell me what was going on, I'm going to assume you were being butt-fucked bareback by male prostitutes while wearing a diaper" may indeed get this guy to start talking! ;-)

... Although being butt-fucked while wearing a diaper doesn't sound terribly practical...

*LETTER TO THE WIFE (this is so important for her to read): What you know about your husband's cheating is just the tip of the iceberg. He's likely been acting out for most of your lives together. It may have been limited to pornography initially but has clearly escalated. It won't stop and will only get worse. He has to hit rock bottom and face the truth and then decide whether he wants to seek help and treatment. The only thing you can do right now is get help for yourself by talking to a counselor who deals with sex addiction (CSAT) (http://quantumhealing.us - just one well known counselor for this work). And then also pray that the truth would be revealed. I recommend reading Living with your husband's secret wars by Marsha Mean's as a start. Prodigals international is another great resource. Shattered Hearts and Facing Heartbreak are by Stefanie Carnes, both great tools to help you work through this terrible process.

I am so sorry to hear another woman is facing this. You are not alone, there are so many woman working through this process. I hope you seek the help and support you need and deserve. There's nothing that you did or didn't do that made him choose to cheat on you. He needs help. And you need support.

His job takes him out of town regularly and he's never been good at communicating about sex? He is cheating, and has been cheating more than he's told her, and will continue to cheat. LW can either come to terms with that, divorce him, or - my recommendation - change your marriage to a companionate one. Don't have sex with him, but continue to live with him as friends and life partners and raise your child. He gets to have as much outside sex as he wants, and so do you. Chaining sex to one's spouse in these situations is nonsensical. She is never going to be able to trust him to be faithful and STI-free, and he's never going to be able to be faithful. So take that requirement off the table and just raise your kid and live your lives.

I often forget how much fun the free advice in the comments can be — easily worth a million times the price!

Instead of discharging your loaded agendas, why not try reading the letter? The sequence of events is clear:

Happily married for ten years while wife is on birth control. No sign or suggestion of hubby cheating.
Wife (NOT couple!) suddenly decides to drop birth control. Her behavior changes radically as a result. (Her behavioral change may be the first hint he gets of her procreative ambition.)
Not wanting a child, he intentionally gets an STI which could sterilize her, but stops his plan after she’s pregnant.

See? No hidden past of hubby getting bear-backed at Diesel for years, just his attempt (however ill-advised and/or criminal) to restore the marriage they once had.

It's got to be said that these comments have gotten pretty exotic, as far as what people seem to believe the husband might (or MUST) be doing! LW, if you're reading this, please remember that we are all regular Savage Love readers, and therefore we have a somewhat broad imagination about sexual dalliances. Broader, quite possibly, than your husband's.

Real people sometimes DO just cheat a few times. It doesn't prove they've been doing it for years, or will always do it. And sometimes they get STI's through completely banal one-time hookups. (People with LOTS of sexual experience also often know how to use condoms.)

I know I'm late into this comment thread, but----DTMFA!!!

Congrats Grizelda.

LW, you're no5 point is very concerning. Did he know he was infected? Did you/ he know you were pregnant?
Why are you all disregarding this woman's words? She says she doesn't want to divorce him. And how many of you have tended a new born and been in any state to go rushing out any doors, packed, leaving? This woman sounds intelligent, she knows the extent of his transgressions, he has shown remorse and she's asking wtf she can do to help heal this mess. Hello. He's a man remember. Blah blah blah. Can't help himself. Dick comes first. Wouldn't be the first man to think like this and he won't be the last. Sorry about the cliches, they pop into my head and I'm too lazy to move round them.
I'd say in a yr or two if this idiot of a man hasn't pulled his head(s) in, the LW will get the divorce going.
And ideas on how to stay married and heal, that's what she's asked for. I'm pretty sure she's thought thru the implications of dumping him, and now is not the time, for her.

LW, the only thing that matters is what you are willing to forgive, and what you are willing to live with going forward. Yes, what your husband did is super shitty. Like super SUPER shitty. But you are the only one whose opinion matters on whether it is forgivable. Any story like this, where none of the commenters know anything about your relationship other than what you told us, is going to generate a continuous stream of DTMFAs. None of that matters. What kind of life do you want? What kinds of things are you willing to forgive? What sort of life are you willing to live with your husband going forward?

LW, I don't know how often you had sex with your husband after he cheated, but if you've only been tested for STDs once, I'd get tested again for everything. I wouldn't trust your husband as far as I could throw him, and neither should you.

LW here. Thank you everyone for your responses. Even the RUN NOW ones, because they validate my 'what the actual FUCK' reaction. I am just not willing to cut and run without attempting to work on a repair first, as this is the only issue in our relationship thus far. To respond to common questions, we planned the kid together but my health issue threw a speedbump into that process. The year and a half of illness was miserable for me and unpleasant for him too. Our communication is generally great except he has shame around sex due to his conservative Christian upbringing (which he no longer follows but still plagues his way of thinking about things at times). I think therapy is necessary to have a neutral third party to walk us through rebuilding trust and addressing the underlying astounding lapse of judgment on his part, as well as ensure we have a healthy plan for the future. Monogamy is important to me but I also think it's unrealistic to expect anyone to be with the same person for 50+ years. He's very remorseful but shuts down out of shame, embarrassment, sadness, the reality of having to confront what a shitty thing he did. He was not aware he had the STI but for me that risk he exposed us to is the most unforgivable thing out of it all. That's what I keep getting stuck on. To therapy we will go. I don't need to stay with him. I make good money, I am able to work partly from home so childcare is not prohibitive, and I could move back with Mom for support while I get my own housing. I just genuinely have no other complaints and was very happy in our relationship prior to this amazingly horrendous cheating episode. I suppose he could have been cheating previously or might have a hidden kink but I doubt it. At any rate, hopefully therapy will unpack any of those issues. And yes, condoms are being used and will be for a good long while. Thanks everyone.

Years ago, I lived through something like this. No answers! I come from the "forever" sort of tradition, and I knew he was all depressed and miserable and all that, and so I stuck with him. 20 years later, the kids are grown and gone. He loves me INTENSELY. I mean, it's ridiculous. He never loved me like this when I was young and pretty-- now I'm an older lady with swollen ankles, and he adores me. Go figure. Anyway... decide what's important. My kids are the most important thing to me, and they had a nice childhood. Is that enough? I don't know. I don't understand any of this. I'm pretty sure I'm not what my husband wants--ever-- but I'm probably what he needs-= loving, easygoing, intelligent but not demanding. So here we are, a decade later, kids gone, he loves me utterly (or so he says), and I think, okay, but you don't even know me. LW, who knows. Whatever you decide, it's probably right for the moment, and if in the future, you can't bear it, it's okay to change your mind. Love is a good thing. Don't ever regret loving him. But, really, ignore him now. Love your baby and yourself. If he can help with that (like he makes a good income), maybe it's worth letting him stay. But truth here=- you might have found the love of your life... your child. Your husband might not be all that emotionally important at this point. Sad for him-- but do what's right for you and that wonderful baby. :)

WTF lady @72 -- thanks for writing in! Therapy sounds like a good idea; hope communication gets easier. Regular STI tests, too, since condoms aren't perfect.

petraluma @73 -- you wrote about what your husband needs; hope you're getting your needs met as well.

I'm breastfeeding my 7 week old son at 2am while reading this, so I'm hoping to bring some baby-having, recently pregnant perspective.

I think most commenters need to cut WTF a little slack. She has time to figure out if her marriage is sustainable in the long run, whether through couples counseling or solo therapy. Relationships evolve when a kiddo is born. She is probably still feeling out what the new normal will be as they go from being a married couple to parents.

Now, her husband behaved like a fucked up piece of shit. From an outside perspective, it seems unforgivable, but of her partner looks at their kid with half the love and adoration my husband has for our baby, I can see why it'd be hard to leave him. The guy could be an awful husband (or awful at monogamy), but a great father and parenting partner. It's up to WTF to figure put what qualities are most important to her right now.

As an aside, I broke a Savage Love tenet when I married my husband. We had mismatched libidos. For most of our 19 year relationship, I could have taken sex once a day, him once a week or less. However, we were always willing to communicate and negotiate. Over the years, I've, really come to appreciate having a partner with a lower sex drive. Through mental health crises, 17-hour work weeks, an exhausting pregnancy, and, now, a kid hanging off my boob at 2am, my own desire for sex has waxed and waned depending on our circumstances.My partner has always been kind and understanding. I'm so, so, so thankful to not be trying to maintain the libido I had at 24 when we got married.

LW here. Thank you everyone for your responses. Even the RUN NOW ones, because they validate my 'what the actual FUCK' reaction. I am just not willing to cut and run without attempting to work on a repair first, as this is the only issue in our relationship thus far. To respond to common questions, we planned the kid together but my health issue threw a speedbump into that process. The year and a half of illness was miserable for me and unpleasant for him too. Our communication is generally great except he has shame around sex due to his conservative Christian upbringing (which he no longer follows but still plagues his way of thinking about things at times). I think therapy is necessary to have a neutral third party to walk us through rebuilding trust and addressing the underlying astounding lapse of judgment on his part, as well as ensure we have a healthy plan for the future. Monogamy is important to me but I also think it's unrealistic to expect anyone to be with the same person for 50+ years. He's very remorseful but shuts down out of shame, embarrassment, sadness, the reality of having to confront what a shitty thing he did. He was not aware he had the STI but for me that risk he exposed us to is the most unforgivable thing out of it all. That's what I keep getting stuck on. To therapy we will go. I don't need to stay with him. I make good money, I am able to work partly from home so childcare is not prohibitive, and I could move back with Mom for support while I get my own housing. I just genuinely have no other complaints and was very happy in our relationship prior to this amazingly horrendous cheating episode. I suppose he could have been cheating previously or might have a hidden kink but I doubt it. At any rate, hopefully therapy will unpack any of those issues. And yes, condoms are being used and will be for a good long while. Thanks everyone.

If you going off of birth control (which leads to a hormonal imbalance in a lot of women) and having scheduled sex drove him to fuck other women while trying to impregnate you, I hope you only plan to have the one kid, and for the love of all that is holy, don't tell him about menopause. You may just want to consider locking him in a basement with a gerbil feeder until you're "sexually normal" for him again, because this was clearly all about him, and you just have to do what is best for his poor, little libido.

Tell him if he can't talk, then you have to question every year of marriage to him, which, by the way, you should be doing. Stop and think back and be brutally honest about red flags and when they really start showing up. I bet you can see them well before you ever thought about getting pregnant.

Side note: I have a hard time believing that you are open to open marriages and that he wouldn't have known that, unless this is something that only ever crossed your mind after you found out he was cheating and you're merely just trying to find a way around this mess. The sad thing is, is that if he was this immature before, an open marriage will not solve that problem, nor would it have solved it beforehand, due to said immaturity.

I'm sorry, this sucks, but you're married to a child, which is not going to be fun when you have to parent. A real life partner is willing to put a lot of things on hold when the person they love is going through getting pregnant and having a baby because they themselves are invested in this kid and put the health of the mother and baby above their wants and needs. For heaven's sake, I had to make my husband go watch porn again because he felt it "inappropriate" while I was pregnant. I told him to man up and jerk off to porn.

What he didn't do was go out and raw dog a bunch of women and then come home to have sex with me while I was at my most vulnerable.

@72. WTF Lady. Your choice is to stay with your husband and go to therapy. Given this, I would make every effort to reassure your husband that you want to face his actions together--and that it would help you to know about them as much as possible. You're not looking in the spirit of wanting to assign blame. Or to register shock. It's so you can understand what happened and move forward.

He needs to work independently on his inability to imagine sex outside of marriage--his reflex that it's shameful, to be passed over. The motivation for his doing this--surely--is to stay with you.

In your place I would still want to know enough about the specifics of his cheating to understand your husband. Was he actually cheating with sex workers? It would seem less likely to be he contracted an infection in those circumstances than in others.

Note: I hope this didn't post more than once. Issues with the login process.

If you going off of birth control (which leads to a hormonal imbalance in a lot of women) and having scheduled sex drove him to fuck other women while trying to impregnate you, I hope you only plan to have the one kid, and for the love of all that is holy, don't tell him about menopause. You may just want to consider locking him in a basement with a gerbil feeder until you're "sexually normal" for him again, because this was clearly all about him, and you just have to do what is best for his poor, little libido.

Tell him if he can't talk, then you have to question every year of marriage to him, which, by the way, you should be doing. Stop and think back and be brutally honest about red flags and when they really start showing up. I bet you can see them well before you ever thought about getting pregnant.

Side note: I have a hard time believing that you are open to open marriages and that he wouldn't have known that, unless this is something that only ever crossed your mind after you found out he was cheating and you're merely just trying to find a way around this mess. The sad thing is, is that if he was this immature before, an open marriage will not solve that problem, nor would it have solved it beforehand, due to said immaturity.

I'm sorry, this sucks, but you're married to a child, which is not going to be fun when you have to parent. A real life partner is willing to put a lot of things on hold when the person they love is going through getting pregnant and having a baby because they themselves are invested in this kid and put the health of the mother and baby above their wants and needs. For heaven's sake, I had to make my husband go watch porn again because he felt it "inappropriate" while I was pregnant. I told him to man up and jerk off to porn.

What he didn't do was go out and raw dog a bunch of women and then come home to have sex with me while I was at my most vulnerable.

WTF Lady @72: Thanks for writing in. It sounds like you had your approach well in hand before you wrote to Dan. I hope you're not wrong in believing this was an aberrance on his part, and I hope he can person up and work through this in therapy with you. He is lucky beyond words to be getting a second chance, and I hope he is well-the-fuck aware of this. Good luck!

Tensor @65: Oh, I see. So he doesn't want kids, and instead of TELLING HER THAT he goes out and intentionally tries to derail the plan by getting an STI. Gee, we were all so wrong about him being a cowardly cheater who deserves dumping... :: eye roll ::

Dadddy @67: Nice homophobia there, dude.

@80. Bi. A letter-writer can write in to 'check' that their plan is right. Or to say something they need to say before proceeding with their plan. WTF may have needed to get her incomprehension and hurt at her husband's actions off her chest before taking him to therapy. This is a service--the listening, being a sounding board--that columns like Dan's and add-ons like the comments can provide.

I forgot to say 'good luck!' previously so I'll add my good wishes to yours.

**
I'll note that Dadddy received plaudits from older cis-female feminists as someone who had actual relationships with women, knew what women were like, spoke of women with some experience of sex with them, etc. God save us from 'men' and 'women'--or at least from 'men' and 'women' as the only possible players in sexual ethics.

@81: My comments were based upon the information in the original letter. The LW has now clarified her situation with new information, invalidating my previous comments. I’m glad her situation is not as dark as her original letter suggested.

If you think persons in our society can’t have extreme difficulty talking about sex, even with initiate partners, I suggest you comment a little less here, and read quite a bit more of what Dan and his correspondents write. Lack of communication about sex has been a consistent theme here at Savage Love since the beginning, decades ago.

One thing to keep in mind, WTF, is that therapy will never work and trust will never be restored if he can't even be honest and communicate with you. As others have noted above, given his STI, the sex worker explanation seems suspicious. And him shutting down about the topic (no matter what the reason) does not bode well. Personally, I would vote divorce- but since you want to at least try to work things out, you both should understand that couples counseling will be useless without him making some serious changes on his own. The recommendation I've read is individual counseling for both partners before/during couples therapy (and, of course, use a different therapist). Good luck!

I made the mistake of marrying a man as wife #2 who told me he cheated on wife #1 while she was pregnant. He said he changed. It was in the past. Fast forward to our marriage...which he abruptly ended. He was waiting to cheat until after he told me “this isn’t working”. The next day he’s giggling on the phone like a high school girl. He cheated once. Twice. Three times. And on it goes. A total narcissist...he liked what was shiny and new until...it wasn’t shiny and new anymore. Then it became trash.
Your husband sounds like a narcissist. Read books about it and get into therapy. You’re going through need it. Trust me. God and therapy!!!! That’s what got me through. And now, two years later, I’m ready to meet the one. My 6 year old daughter, my love of my life, is what matters now. You will have the same...never give up! I will pray for you. God Bless.

Oh, and I know the STI is a big sticking point for you (as it should be). Also keep in mind that he could have impregnated someone else (or could in the future, if he cheats again or you decide to open up the marriage)- and that could have repercussions far beyond a bacterial infection.

BDF @ 81 - Did we expect anything less from him?

What’s going on is so sad, I have been in similar situation when I was with my ex. He cheated and lied through out our relationship about it. I know I might be criticized but I decided to contact a hacker who got into his devices for the proof I needed for his infidelity. She gave me access within an hour, her information is femalehackerz1 at google to get her contact