The republicans are recommending Death Panels. That's interesting.
The can feel free to line up and sacrifice themselves first. Trump should be the absolute first in line.
Good. We're gonna need all the
Soylent Green we can stomach
Capitalism trumps the Citizenry
Fuck that. I am from a red state, my family is in red states, and they are full of blue voters as well. Nobody should be encouraging these policies or for the lambs to be led to slaughter because they were never given the opportunity to think for themselves.
There are Alternatives:
from Amy Goodman's AWESOME "Democracy Now!":
"'Coronavirus Capitalism': Naomi Klein’s Case for
Transformative Change Amid Coronavirus Pandemic
AMY GOODMAN: Today we spend much of the hour looking at the economic impact of the coronavirus pandemic, what some are calling coronavirus capitalism. Soon we’ll be joined by Nobel Prize-winning economist Joseph Stiglitz, whose new book is People, Power and Profits: Progressive Capitalism for an Age of Discontent.
But first we begin with a new video by author and activist Naomi Klein, produced by The Intercept. In 2007, Klein wrote The Shock Doctrine: The Rise of Disaster Capitalism. Now she argues Trump’s plan is a pandemic shock doctrine, but it’s not the only way forward.
The video opens with this quote from economist Milton Friedman, who says, “Only a crisis — actual or perceived — produces real change. When that crisis occurs, the actions that are taken depend on the ideas that are lying around.”
NAOMI KLEIN: 'Ideas that are lying around.' Friedman, one of history’s most extreme free market economists, was wrong about a whole lot, but he was right about that. In times of crisis, seemingly impossible ideas suddenly become possible.
But whose ideas? Sensible, fair ones, designed to keep as many people as possible safe, secure and healthy?
Or predatory ideas, designed to further enrich the already unimaginably wealthy while leaving the most vulnerable further exposed? The world economy is seizing up in the face of cascading shocks."
Tons more at:
"NAOMI KLEIN: The Fed’s first move was to pump $1.5 trillion into the financial markets, with more undoubtedly on the way. But if you’re a worker, especially a gig worker, there’s a very good chance you’re out of luck.
If you do need to see a doctor for care, there’s a good chance no one’s going to help you pay if you aren’t covered. And if you want to heed the public health warnings to stay home from work, there’s also a chance that you won’t get paid.
Of course, you still need to pay your rent and all of your debts — medical, student, credit card, mortgage. The results are predictable. Too many sick people have no choice but to go to work, which means more people contracting and spreading the virus.
And without comprehensive bailouts for workers, we can expect more bankruptcies and more homelessness down the road.
Look, we know this script. In 2008, the last time we had a global financial meltdown, the same kinds of bad ideas for no-strings-attached corporate bailouts carried the day, and regular people around the world paid the price.
And even that was entirely predictable. Thirteen years ago, I wrote a book called The Shock Doctrine: The Rise of Disaster Capitalism, described a brutal and recurring tactic by right-wing governments.
After a shocking event — a war, coup, terrorist attack, market crash or natural disaster — they exploit the public’s disorientation, suspend democracy, push through radical free market policies that enrich the 1% at the expense of the poor and middle class.
But here is what my research has taught me. Shocks and crises don’t always go the shock doctrine path. In fact, it’s possible for crisis to catalyze a kind of evolutionary leap. Think of the 1930s, when the Great Depression led to the New Deal."
Boy, this sure seems like a damn Fine Time for Smokin' Joe Biden (remember him?) to pop his head up and Seize the Day for We, the People. Where on Earth'd he Go?
And, anon, there strikes the ebony clock which stands in the hall of the velvet. And then, for a moment, all is still, and all is silent save the voice of the clock.
It's shocking and of no use to publish this sort of fear mongering and hateful rhetoric. Millions of people rely on a steady functional economy for their lives. My grandson has Type 1 diabetes and needs insulin and medical devices to live. Shutting down vast swaths of the economy disrupts the system that gets these supplies to him. Same with people on oxygen and people needing cancer treatments--the list goes on. Every move to stop this disease has unforeseen consequences, and leaders have to consider carefully the impact, not just on the elderly, but on everyone else. Shame on you for suggesting that political leaders are willing to kill the elderly just to "save the economy." No one makes these decisions easily, but man it's easy to sit back and throw stones.
It's not even a question of the economy versus old people. It's a false choice. This is the economy versus EVERYBODY. People of all ages need hospitals. And unless we flatten the curve right fucking now, hospitals will get totally, completely overwhelmed and nobody will be able to use them. Meanwhile, the data strongly indicates that while the death rate from COVID is still relatively low for younger people, a great many still require hospitalization to actually live through it. So now you have a huge spike in deaths caused by the disease as well as deaths caused by everything else that you could normally treat in a hospital setting. Does the GOP understand this? Is there any limit to the number of people they'd kill?
That's a helluva way for the GOP to treat their base. If there were no grandparents in TX, Beto would be Senator. And Texas would go Blue at last!
@12 everything Trump and his administration from the day he was told about this being a serious public health issue (December 2019) is what put everyone in this country's life in the expendable column. Your grandson is not the only person who needs medication and medical devices to live. No one's life is more important than anyone else's. Pretending otherwise is pure horseshit and hate. Trump started a war with China over trade and his racist, xenophobic, America first "vision" for this country has put us right squarely where we are.
Shame on us for suggesting political leaders are willing to kill the elderly to save the economy?
Shame on the political leaders who are SAYING FLAT OUT WITH THOSE WORDS, THE ELDERLY SHOULD DIE TO SAVE THE ECONOMY.
They do not care who dies and your sick grandson is just as disposable and worthless to them as the old people they believe should sacrifice their lives.
WAKE THE FUCK UP.
The absolute ONLY thing Trump and all of his cronies and the GOP ghouls trying to extort $500 BILLION for their own pockets during this horrific crisis care about is MONEY. If they can save their wealth and the stock market AND keep their power - they are willing to kill anyone and everyone to make it happen.
And I am someone who relies on medication and medical devices to live my life. I am also not willing to lay down and die for Trump. I am also not willing to kill of my 70 year old mother for Trump. Your grandson's life is not more important than anyone else's life.
@xina -- U.Rock.
@12 -- "Shame on you for suggesting that political leaders
are willing to kill the elderly just to 'save the economy.'"
No one's 'suggesting' it.
Well, other than Republicans.
Shame on YOU for not knowing
whattf they're Capable of. Oh,
and DOING. Also.
Stay Informed. Or,
"Texas Lt. Gov.: Elderly Should 'Sacrifice' for
U.S. Economy Amid Coronavirus Pandemic"
I drove to San Francisco to support my family who is working in ICU and having to have discussions contunually about who to treat, if the medical staff feels safe and well, and what sacrifices they have to make to knowingly stay with covid pts and still somehow avoid spreading it and keeping themselves and their patients are. People are already being asked to sacrifice and die for others and the people making those decisions are doing so with no regard to pay or money. They do so because they believe in duty and family and love. My sister who has been holding it all in broke and told me she didn't want to die as she struggled to breath and I did all I could to confort her. She went back to work anyway without telling me because people are counting on her. Our country is counting on our leadership and cooperation of the masses to get the kits out and support them when going to work means putting everything on the line. The urgency is real and we demand a response and an answer for those who money is secondary to care for each other. Especially for those who claim to be Christians but spurn the Stranger and the leper and the outcast, but horde the silver.
"Death Panels" .... that takes me back.
"Get your government hands off my Medicare!"
@22 people with Type 1 diabetes are born with it, they aren't obese. And just FYI, just as many people with Type 2 diabetes are not obese either. I am not advocating for the death of her grandson. I am appalled, however, that she believes he is more deserving of being chosen to live over anyone else.
Then again, even before this pandemic, plenty of people believed certain people's lives matter more than others, and have allowed that belief to affect who gets livable wages, who gets to have a place to live or be homeless, who gets fed, who gets health care, who gets murdered by cops, who gets clean water (Flint, MI), who gets saved and who dies.
This pandemic has more people outraged because the wealthy are clearly stating that not even being white matters to them - if you are old or disabled or poor or in any way considered (by them) useless - roll over and die so they can keep their wealth (and their power).
@19, im moved beyond words.
"A displaced capitalism reveals a culturally constructed system of control"
So you want to put in place socialism, a socially constructed system of even MORE control? Or hell, let's do full communism, a socially constructed system of COMPLETE control.
A mixed economy is the best way to go. Mostly capitalist with a few social safety nets sprinkled throughout. Life requires competition and rewards for those who come up with the best ideas and those with the highest work ethic.
I see that GOP Lt. Gov. as the moral equivalent of Stalin. Stalin thought it acceptable to sacrifice millions on the altar of collectivized agriculture. Market fundamentalists think it acceptable to sacrifice millions on the altar of capitalism. The ghoulish ability to coolly rationalize mass murder is the same in both types of political fundamentalist.
@19: You are a light in this world and so is your is your sister.
@ Xina: I heart you so, so much.
@22: STOP. Take a breath. AudreyA is not the enemy and she isn't the 404 Troll. She is frightened for her family. THEY are real to her, while the rest of the world is still an abstraction. That's how our minds work. This WHOLE thing is still an abstraction to most of us, and will be until, it hits us closer to home.
I want Audrey's family to be safe. I want Xina to be safe. I want YOU to be safe. I even want, god help me, the 404 Troll to be safe.
WE, the people of this country, are not each other's enemies, and we need to stick together, because the current administration does not have our best interests at heart.
Sorry for rambling.
@27, 31 et all
I am honored in kind.
@33 the choice is economic pain being experienced now (and it IS bad) saves lives. open everything back up, far more people get sick and far more people die, and economic pain experienced may be worse. do you really believe people are going to run out and spend money the minute everyone is told to return to work?
people will go out and be sick and make other people sick and businesses will still suffer and close as their employees and customers get sick and some of them die. the choice is clearly: keep the country shut down until the spread slows enough to be managed by the health care system we have and use the trillions of dollars in the stimulus bill to give people (NOT corporations, PEOPLE, who are unemployed, can't pay their bills, can't buy food, etc.) enough money to live on until it we reach that point and then slowly move back toward opening everything with the full acknowledgement that our society as it is DOES NOT WORK. a country that can be brought to its knees like and does not need to fear nuclear war (or war of any kind).
we obviously rely nearly solely on the service industry. rich tech employees working from home making six figures are not suffering. wealthy corporate ceos and stockholders and politicians are not suffering. even with the loss of wealth they are experiencing THEY ARE NOT SUFFERING. the straw man is they believe they can save their wealth by forcing people to go out and get sick and die while attempting to do their jobs. the choice is our society decides to value life over money and make the necessary changes required going forward or refuses and our society is ultimately destroyed.
the rich assholes are trump and his munchkin and mcturtle who believe they and all white, wealthy, white men like them are the only things that matter. everyone else is garbage to be disposed of, whose lives have no value other than whatever they do to contribute to the wealthy. the straw man is that they truly believe their wealth was earned and they own it when the wealth of this society has always only existed on the backs of those forced to do the work and suffer the most when things go wrong.
everyone who has gotten sick, is sick, and all who have died and will die are already sacrificial lambs. all of it could have been prevented if trump had not destroyed what obama put in place and if he had actually done something when he was warned about this in december 2019. the depraved indifference to life and the choices he made solely to maintain his wealth and power and access to the taxpayer trough he uses as personal piggy bank is what all of this is about.
why should we all cease trying to stay alive so these motherfuckers can maintain their wealth when the damage to the population at large is already done and it will not be over anytime soon (and it will take longer to be over if we do what they want us to do)?
Think of it as Back to the Future. My Grandma was born in 1919. If she died as a baby from that era's nasty flu, I wouldn't exist today. But she was from the St Louis area, and St Louis did a better job at keeping it under control than Philadelphia did. So YES, it sure AF depends on what city you live in and your chances of survival, and the future's survival. I don't want my vulnerable family members to die quickly just so these ignorant fucks can get back their Business as Usual.
The current CONVID-19 pandemic and accompanying economic crisis is further proof that RepubliKKKans are every bit as stupid as they are corrupt and grossly unfit to govern.
The entire Bay Area has about 1000 cases (as of 12 hours ago...);
nationwide about 3% of cases are considered serious,
the rest having mild or no symptoms;
that works out to 30 patients;
let's triple it and say 100 serious virus cases.
How does that overwhelm the healthcare system in one of the wealthiest regions on the planet?
this is a serious question.
Neo liberalism (austerity) led by the democratic leadership is not an answer to the republican fascist dictatorship which we have now. NO BAILOUT FOR THE SUPER RICH.
29 You have a deluded view of capitalism which is classist and authoritarian which prevents many to express their creativity because they are hindered by needing to expend most of their energy just to survive. If they or we cannot keep up then we can become homeless and die on the streets because THAT is the answer for those who have to endure wage slavery. It takes the rulers police forces and prisons to keep us all in line. We have socialism for the rich but NOT for the rest of us RIGHT NOW. Our wealth is stolen from us by these politicians who like Biden, Trump etc. took up the political life to enrich themselves at our expense.
Meanwhile we have children in cages while these politicians continue their social climbing and abuse at everyone else’s expense. Now they are panicking because the pan endemic is threatening their disgusting economic system. We are expected to play their game at our expense. Time to bring it to a screeching halt and learn from the yellow vests for example. Help each other because that’s what we really have. People fought and died in the labor movement so we didn’t have to work from dawn to dusk for example and gave us social security which we have to fight to keep thanks to this rotten system.
LOVE you all that speak out now and make a stand. Everyone of us is a leader.
Thank you Charles for your excellent article which was needed now.
37 I hear you sister.
@37 You can find the information you are asking basically anywhere online. There are numerous news outlets reporting on the situation in the Bay Area. Current estimate by officials in the Bay area is that there are 10,000 cases. Again, without testing, they can't know for certain. Using your expert knowledge ??? 3% of that (if it's right and it's not more) is 3000. Let's triple that and say it's 9000 that will require hospitalization.
RIGHT NOW: they don't have enough hospital beds, the don't have enough equipment (ICU beds, ventilators, and of course all of the PPE missing for doctors and nurses), and they don't have enough people (they are scrambling to hire nurses amid a national shortage).
Also: the healthcare system cannot quarantine every medical professional who has contact with another medical professional who tests positive for the virus (these are their words not mine).
And you seem to believe the only thing happening is COVID-19. There are still people who were sick with other illnesses before COVID-19, patients with cancer and any number of other serious and life threatening illnesses. Those people need hospital beds, too. Some of them need ventilators. So do car crash victims, people who require emergency surgery, etc.
Across the Bay Area, there are about 2 hospital beds per 1,000. That's less than the U.S. and Italy, which had an overrun hospital system at its peak number of COVID-19 cases. The U.S. in general has 2.8 beds (?) per 1000 people.
THE REAL QUESTION IS: How is the health care system in THIS country, off of which people make HUNDREDS OF BILLIONS OF DOLLARS IN PROFIT, not able to handle what is happening here? WHY is there such a shortage of critical PPE for doctors and nurses? WHY are there so few hospital beds? WHY are there so few ventilators? WHY is there such a shortage of health care professionals? WHY, NATIONWIDE, ARE PEOPLE HAVING TO BEG FOR THE MEANS TO SAVE LIVES AND TRUMP DOES NOTHING ABOUT, BUT SMIRK AND LAUGH AT GOVERNORS WHO CAN'T GET ENOUGH EQUIPMENT?
We are approaching the number of cases Italy has. We have LESS capability to handle the number of cases that require hospitalization than Italy. Think about that. Italy's total population is 60.5 million. Our population is 327.2 million. We have LESS capacity (beds, equipment, personnel) to handle the same number of cases and we will surpass Italy in number of cases before COVID-19 peaks here (because we are behind them, we are on the same trajectory on the curve, but we have weeks to go to "catch up").
The 1,000 cases are a moving target - the cases doubling each 5 days means withing a couple weeks you have 10,000 cases.
This is why true containment is better than mitigation. And this is the reason for alarm - the virus can replicate much faster than the economic system's ability to provide medical services.
We’re really still screaming about socialism? Even after the government put a trillion dollars in the stock market and passed a stimulus bill that gives more cash to corporations than citizens and hospitals combined? Republicans don’t get to use the word socialism ever again, fuck off.
@37 I’m no medical professional, just a lowly fish biologist who has studied disease management in aquaculture but I think the answer is pretty simple. Our health care system is not designed to work for the majority of Americans and is generally shit.
Thank you, xina, for taking the time and effort to explain that in a way I never could. Given my own limited experience working for HCA hospitals, my impression is that healthcare corps staff their floors according to a labor budget that is necessarily constrained to consistently understaff floors and stuff them with patients that staff is largely untrained and unequalled to handle. I worked in an ortho floor and was working with skilled nursing, neuro, dementia, cancer, and hospice patients without the means to care for them when simple another person trained in basic care and empathy would have sufficed, not just to put in foleys and provide care, but to assuage the concerns of families and clean up code browns and somehow find time to chart and eat without feeling guilty, as well as to get patients premium comfort items from thr charge room like a toothbrush for $25 that wouldn't rip their gums off like the plastic prison shank default quality ones. Take that analogy and realize that the system is already squeezed to the brink by design to maintain an equilibrium of stress that keeps people just stressed enough not to quit and for the bottom line to make profits while letting the providers know it is their duty to care, and to show they care, while making chump change in a horrorshow.
That was the status quo before insurance. Never mind that I had to wheel a poor old lady who fell and had emergency surgery to her car before she could recover and was still bleeding through her bandages, wincing painfully as her elderly husband looked at me with a helpless and numb gaze as we loaded her precariously into her station wagon, numb and delirious on opioid and a bill she would never pay off.
Now compound that with xinas figures.
I recognize that due to my PTSD I may not be grounded in reality as it stands everywhere in the country...yet. But it is real to me because my love in Italy wallows through the mire of death each day and my family is showing the same indications of what will be that situation shortly without a concerted response. The most crucial thing needed is affordable and ubiquitous testing kits, and for people to do their part by maintaining social distancing. And for kind souls to reach out.
I am overjoyed to report that my sister's back and chest wall muscles have released from acute spasm and her breathing is normalizing. Thank you all for standing together and reaching out, it goes further than you know. God bless us, everyone.
@45. Unqualified* And the lady had been rejected by insurance to recover and go to rehab, so she was somehow fit into her car to go home where she would be bedbound or faul again with her only her frail husband, both too poor to afford help. My "I Care" badge on my lanyard gleamed in the Texas sun as they drove away, along with the tears streaming down my face.
@37 You're kidding right? Mmm, did you listen in your epidemiology class? You know hospitals all over the country were at capacity before CV-19 or are you trolling?
404 Troll isn't kidding. He's just trying to stir the shit with his nonsense. As always. Just ignore.
I still don't see how older people are going to stop the virus by dying from it. How does that stop the spread? This solution is from some dumb ass. How does that save your grandchildren? There still no prevention of spread. It makes no sense.
3% of 10,000 is 300.
There are(were) 1000 reported cases; your 10,000 is a number some hysteric pulled out of their ass, 9000 of those phantoms are not yet in the 'system'.
The question remains; how do 100 new cases of 'anything' throw a huge medical establishment into total chaos?
...There are numerous news outlets hysterically hyping and exploiting the situation...
there; fixed it for you
sure, kill off the olds. Who is going to support charity and other do-good organizations if we all die off? We're the ones with the money, suckers. Your precious arts councils won't do very well without the patronage of the olds.
F*ck the art councils too...
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