Same old shit, brand new bag. Michelangelo Signorile did an expose on the group and its leader in the Advocate in 2006. Says Mike in an email to me…
I can’t say I’m familiar with what his org has done since I wrote the article, which was four years ago. He disappeared his web site after my expose in the Advocate and after gay groups dropped contact with him. But I don’t think a leopard like this changes spots. Marin is it in for himself—beginning with naming a foundation after himself at the age of 27—and he is not a “bridge” to anything except to his own ambitions. He embelishes what his organization does, and at least in 2006, I could not find anyone from the gay community or the religious right who’d gone to his supposed seminars. He claims to be conducting a study—by quizzing people at gay pride events—that he says will be the largest study ever (like everything he and his group does—it’s always the “only,” the “largest,” the “greatest,” the “first,” and on and on), and which at that time had no social scientists on board (maybe he’s got some now, I don’t know).
He tells the religous right what it wants to hear and tries to tell us what we want to hear—though he would not at that time say homosexuality was not a sin. I wouldn’t say he’s on some antigay mission. I just think he is trying to build himself up and if it means embelishing and being deceptive, so be it. His former friends attest to that as well. Even if he’s changed his positions now, from his history I wouldn’t think it was much beyond ambitiousnes and not a from-the-heart change—and would always question his true motives. Sure, if he wants to show up at pride with Christians apologizing, that’s nice. But no one should give him a dime for doing it (I see on FB that he’s now selling the “I”m sorry” t-shirts), as I don’t think he’s doing it for any other reason than to get financial and other support from LGBTs for his own career.
Here’s the Chicago Reader piece from 2006. It looks like Marin got called on his bullshit in 2006, decided to lay low for a few years, and is back at it now, peddling the same old condemnations wrapped up in a bright and shiny new lie.
Per a commenter in yesterday’s post: Yeah, we’re holding out for complete capitulation. When evangelicals are ready to admit that the bible got homosexuality wrong—just like it got slavery and shellfish and figs and masturbation and burnt offerings wrong—then we can talk. Until then: I’m not interested in accepting any hugs from “reformed” homophobes who still believe that being gay is a sin.
ALSO: Alice Dreger is going to be a guest on Mike’s radio show today:
What is really going on with the incredible story of the doctor who is treating pregnant woman to prevent lesbianism? Alice Dreger, Professor of Medical Humanities and Bioethics at Northwestern University’s Feinberg School of Medicine in Chicago, who’s written much on this, joins me to discuss it.
Mike’s show is on Sirius XM’s OutQ channel. Alice is on at 12:30 Seattle time today. Tune in.
AND: From the comments thread…
I interviewed Marin a few years ago and in my research prior to the interview found he often dramatically changed his message depending on his audience. To the gay crowd he’d be much more nuanced but when he spoke on Christian radio, etc., he was quite explicit that gays could/should change. I approached him in the interview as a Christian (I grew up in that community and know the language) and he didn’t hide the fact that he thought homosexuality was a sin. I think I still have the mp3s of radio interviews w/him I collected prior to the interview. I really hoped he was different as well. I was wrong.
Looking through the comments on the original article by Nathan Albert, he does not say whether or not homosexuality is a sin. I think it’s a step in the right direction. Although whether this is just his opinion or the official position of the group is unclear. A “come as you are” kind of attitude is a good thing in that Christians believe ALL are sinners. Each person’s definition of “sin” varies, but it’s not anyone’s place to point and judge.
I do believe there are an increasing number of churches that accept and welcome lgbt people without trying to “cure” you.
As a straight Christian, I do not think homosexuality is a sin. I never really did, but I admit I didn’t totally get it at first. My ignorance was just that, and not based on anything the Bible says. I don’t represent the position of my denomination, so it’s just my opinion, for what it’s worth.
I find this all very frustrating and sad. The best thing I can do is raise my daughter to love all people.
Christians cannot “like” gays because their bible tells them what to think. As does the bible teach to rape, molest, beat and kill. Most likely a bunch of closet cases.
I would like to echo a comment earlier in this discussion, that there are certainly Christian churches and congregations that are utterly welcoming of LGBT folks and who are not apologizing for anything, other than agonizing over how many Christians and Christian bodies have behaved and are continuing to behave toward our community.
I am in Cleveland and am a member of a small United Church of Christ congregation in a conservative suburb. We revel in being the liberal outpost in this town. We are what is called “open and affirming” – meaning at a point in the past, the congregation voted, almost unanimously, to welcome LGBT folks and include them (us) in the full life of the church. This was in 1991. It took them a while to figure out exactly how to “live” that designation, but we now have an openly gay pastor, a gay music director, and I was, for two years, moderator of the church council. You can’t get much more welcoming or affirming than that.
We have not “taken over” – far from it. The church is a mix of kinds of people – young families, including gay families, and people of all ages, single and married or partnered. The members who are gay are actively supported and appreciated, but our sexuality is just no big deal. We are simply full members of the church family. For me, it is precious and life-giving. Our message is completely Christ-centered. We don’t debate scripture. We focus on being the church for our members and in our community.
I personally reject the conviction held by many that the Bible condemns homosexuality. There are just a few passages these people cite, and in every instance, there are reasonable interpretations of them that completely refute the bigots. I am so sick of that discussion that I pretty much refuse to participate in it, but I’ll be happy to if anyone insists on it.
It’s a big part of my life – don’t know what I’d do without it – my church, that is. It makes me very sad that so many of my gay brothers and sisters are so filled, justifiably, with anger and hurt and are missing out on what can be a wonderful thing. It makes me sad that alleged Christians are caught up in rejecting us and have done such a good job of turning millions of people away from God. They are missing out, too. I think that’s something they will answer for before it is all said and done.
OK – enough already. Just putting in my two bits.
thanks, jon t! it’s nice to know i’m not alone:-)
What’s wrong with Figs in the bible?
I found a scary quote on this site linked to in Dan Savage’s article http://www.chicagoreader.com/chicago/his…
Early in June, Michael Allen of Uptown Baptist Church wrote an open letter to area pastors calling on them to respond to the Gay Games. “Our gay and lesbian fellow citizens embody our own most extreme, most impassioned defiance of our Creator,” he wrote, “who lovingly designed us in his own image, male and female. Our homosexual friends typify our own stiff-necked, fist-waving, God-cursing, me-loving selves.”
This is the problem with evangelicals. For a large percentage of them it is not enough to think homosexuality is a sin, the see it quite literally as a slap in the face to that god of theirs. just leaving us alone is not an option. Many fell the same way about atheists, it is not a private matter to them it is a personal insult to their best buddy.
Okay.
I know this thread is old, I know no one is reading it, I know this comment will go out into the ether. But I’m typing it anyway.
To TreeHugger03 and Anon1984: Thank you for coming to the defense of Andrew Marin. Your fierce defense of him inspired me to get his book Love is an Orientation out of my local library and read it. I just finished the first read and will likely read it again.
I’ve also read Michelangelo Signorile’s blog post from July of this year. Michelangelo is the guy wrote a piece on AM for the Advocate in 2006.
To TreeHugger- you are right. Love is an Orientation is an amazing book about moving beyond the binary right/wrong fight that the US legalist fundamentalists and the LGBT community are embroiled in. I particularly found his ideas on how to read the bible, and his treatment of the Big 5 passages that are so argued over, to be very insightful.
To Anon1984- (I am assuming you are male. If I am wrong, I apologize.)
Brother, I felt your pain and your solitude through your post and my heart goes out to you. Please realize, if you see greatness in another, it is because it is also in you. You are the bridge builder you are looking for.
Now please, both of you, follow the link below. Don’t read the article, don’t listen to Dan Savage or me or Michelangelo Signorile or anyone else. Follow the link, scroll down to the embedded sound bites, and listen and judge for yourself.
http://www.signorile.com/2010/07/more-of…
But being gay is a sin!
This whole thing you are in a huff about is nothing when you realize what sin actually is. Everyone is a complete sinner it is who we are you can’t get away from it. Doesn’t matter what your sexual orientation is, you’re a sinner! That’s the whole beauty of Jesus, he came for us all because we are all sinners, its love and grace in a perfect epic sacrifice. If you think you’re not a sinner and are so upset by being called a sinner then you will miss out on the best thing in life because you don’t even think you need it. If you are gay or not, you’re no more or less of a sinner. And even if you stopped being gay after being gay of course you are still no less of a sinner! And if I turned gay I’m no more of a sinner. The whole concept of sin is totally twisted in this whole issue. The more I recognize that I am a sinner the happier I am, the more at peace I am because it is no longer about ME. It’s so much bigger than me, and thank goodness for that!
I think it’s silly to be mad about this guy’s personal opinions. So what if deep down he thinks what your doing is a ‘sin’, he’s preaching acceptance, not hate. I don’t approve of everyone’s lifestyle, I think some are morally misguided (which I guess is an nonbeliever’s version of a sin?). It’s my right to have those opinions and beliefs, but to hate people for their opinions and beliefs and to preach that hate at a parade, or in a newspaper, or on the radio is just breeding more hate. So I hope you see the hypocrisy in condemning him as he’s spreading acceptance……