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3:03 PM vennominon commented on An Email Exchange With One of the Few Women on Ashley Madison.
[I never thought I would feel not only sympathetic about cheating, but persuaded that it changes people's lives in positive ways and allows them to maintain the family and community structures we all value.]

All? The idea that not everybody values structures of straight (fake-)monogamous privilege just never seems to occur to people like this. This is practically right out of Ibsen, although Mr Savage is better cast as Dr Stockmann in An Enemy of the People. I don't want anything to bad to happen to people because of how they order their marriages. But these people almost to the last one are acting as if they are taking Karsten Bernick from Pillars of Society for a role model, only leaving the theatre before the second half of the last act. The socially monogamous don't want to re-order society to work better for everybody; they almost entirely merely want to retain their own massive pieces of privilege by not getting caught. They don't atone the way Bernick begins to do; all we get most of the time are "softened" views that amount to Republican officials inviting Mary Cheney to dinner parties while voting for all the anti-gay proposals in the party platforms. Yes, people can pull off the full Bernick - but precious few do.

As I said about the woman working for the conservative think tank a few days earlier, I don't want anyone to be fired over this. But I'm a bit contemptuous of people who don't quit.

The really depressing this is that this is just what same-sexers are likely to assimilate into being. Oh, dear; this is giving me a migraine.
12:36 PM vennominon commented on Savage Love Letter of the Day: Forgiveness and Ashley Madison's Innocent Victims.
To reverse the gendres in my particular case, I acknowledge that, had it been my father attacking my mother, there would have been a much greater likelihood of more physical harm than was actually done, perhaps both to the victims and to the witnesses. My father was able to get behind a closed door and keep her out, and I was able to keep my sisters safe until my brother could get her friend from next door to get her calm. I agree very much with the conclusion of Ms Jibe's post; it definitely changes the dynamics. In one respect, it was fortunate that my sisters were so young, as it didn't seem to do them much harm. But as adults they've been a bit on the enabling side (as far as I know, there have been no more instances of physical violence, but there has been an ongoing problem with alcohol).

I don't really recall the aftermath well enough to speak to the treatment of victims or perpetrators according to gendre. He got the medical treatment he needed, she didn't get into any trouble that I can recall - and it took them another thirteen or fourteen years to divorce.
5:55 AM vennominon commented on Letters From Ashley Madison Users.
Ms Cynara - I've seen the express "b**** sheep" called racist; as "b****-balled" carries a clearly negative connotation, I'd not want to take the risk.
5:19 AM vennominon commented on Savage Love.
Mr Horton - As I said in another thread, my ideal would be for everyone who undergoes the process to find the divorced state as congenial as did Anne of Cleves. While such an ideal may be unattainable, we can get a good deal nearer.

It is certainly a complicated issue, which Mr Savage exemplifies perhaps as well as anyone. The only people who come to mind who are as anti-divorce as he is are the MRAs, and it's a curious combination that someone so anti-divorce would have a catch phrase about dumping.
9:11 PM yesterday vennominon commented on Letters From Ashley Madison Users.
Mr Finch, in clarification - Or, let's say that my ideal (obviously not possible to achieve, but something that could be approached a great deal nearer) would be to have everyone undergoing the experience be as pleased with the divorced state as Anne of Cleves.
9:08 PM yesterday vennominon commented on Savage Love Letter of the Day: Straightish Jocks and the Spectrum of Attraction.
I remember practically thirty years ago participating in a gay workshop sort of event in which (in something remarkably like a forerunner of speed dating), a moderately sized group of about a dozen people kept changing partners in a round robin pattern and told each other something which was to be received in a supportive manner. I recall that what I told people was that, though completely monogamous myself, I would not be inclined to demand monogamy of a partner. The one other participant who stuck in my memory told people that he had no interest in homosexuals, but always felt better about himself whenever he seduced a straight man; he was rather unpleasant and seemed, if anything, to be deriving enjoyment from inflicting heterosupremacy on the other participants. I think I told him that at least he had a clear idea of what he wanted.
8:50 PM yesterday vennominon commented on Savage Love Letter of the Day: Forgiveness and Ashley Madison's Innocent Victims.
Oh, dear. When I was fifteen, I saw my mother break a heavy platter (with a roast on it) on my father's head; quite sickening, and witnessing such violence must have been infinitely worse for anyone who actually had affection for the people involved. At this point, I'll mainly hope that everyone is safe and advise LW not not NOT to keep silent about it.
2:48 PM yesterday vennominon commented on Savage Love Letter of the Day: A Married Woman.
Ms Xilo - It didn't seem that contrived to me, but then I've read my Rumpole.
2:38 PM yesterday vennominon commented on Justin Vivian Bond On the Rentboy Raid.
This is why marriage was not my first choice of a solution. Unfortunately, it was probably the only viable American solution. If we could have formed a new, pro-queer and non-oppressive institution and straight people of similar minds would then have sought permission to join us instead of the other way around, leaving marriage to the fate its history deserved, things would have turned out rather better than they have done.
2:29 PM yesterday vennominon commented on Letters From Ashley Madison Users.
Mr Finch - Sometimes one has to advocate for what something can be rather than for what it is (at the moment). I don't think divorce is perfect, and have been saying consistently that improving divorce is a project worthy of far more time, effort and money than it's received (which, considering I am permanently Retired from Romance, shows some generosity on my part).

I'll agree that all the divorces I've seen close up have been ones in which at least one party and usually both were saying within a few months of the decree that they should have done it at least five years earlier than they did. That's more or less what I'd like to see as the default response a few months after the fact. Or, say, if society would regard divorce basically in the way Mr Savage wants society to regard abortion, I'd probably be quite satisfied.

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